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- Newsgroups: sci.crypt
- Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!uotcsi2!news
- From: cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne)
- Subject: Re: DES (Was: Re: 800MHz
- Message-ID: <1993Jan9.163011.23230@csi.uottawa.ca>
- Sender: news@csi.uottawa.ca
- Nntp-Posting-Host: prge
- Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Ottawa
- References: <1444.204.uupcb@ssr.com>
- Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 16:30:11 GMT
- Lines: 78
-
- In article <1444.204.uupcb@ssr.com> jani.patokallio%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Jani Patokallio) writes:
- >In message <23.2B4A0D74@purplet.demon.co.uk> Owen Lewis <Owen.Lewis
- >purplet.demon.co.uk> said:
- >-> Another "likelihood theory":
- >->
- >-> What first world government permits the use of DES for the protection
- >-> of classified material? Does the US government? I believe not.
-
- Gripe #1:
- The US is not part of the "first world".
-
- The ordering is:
-
- "Old World" i.e. - Europe
- "New World" i.e. - the Americas, and generally NORTH America
- "Third World" which refers to "the rest", generally dealing with
- poorer/newer countries in some combination of Africa, Asia, and
- sometimes South America.
-
- North America is most certainly NOT in the "first world".
-
- >-> And while we are discussing theories, I believe James Bamforth, the NSA
- >-> watcher, went on record some time ago with a claim that the cost to the US
- >-> taxpayer for breaking each DES ciphertext is $56. Can anyone supply the
- >-> assumptions from which he must have made this extrapolation?
- >
- >If the US has 250,000,000 people, the total cost is therefore
- >14,000,000,000 (14 trillion) dollars per ciphertext. Even if around a
- >third of those people do not pay taxes, I think Mr. Bamforth was exaggerating
- >a little.
-
- It is reasonable to believe that he was probably using a form of
- hyperbole in which it is pretended that there is only one US taxpayer.
- He most definitely did NOT say "the cost to each US taxpayer of
- breaking each DES ciphertext is $56", which WOULD imply the $14T.
-
- There's lots of griping about the "evil NSA," and lots of conspiracy
- theories. When someone "asks about assumptions," it is unkind (and a
- waste of time) to pick holes in the question without at least TRYING
- to answer what was asked.
-
- If that $56 figure is faintly accurate, then I expect that the NSA
- must have some rather high-speed hardware, probably specialized to
- DES, that costs quite a bit less than anyone expected. I would have
- expected a somewhat higher bill.
-
- I can give some basic "blanks" to fill in:
-
- a) Number of messages processed: _____________
-
- b) Mean Size of messages processed: _____________ (may be important)
-
- A * B = "total ciphertext"
-
- c) Cost of electricity and staffing, per hour, for the NSA "DES
- Breaker" computer: ____________
-
- d) Average time to decrypt 1K of message on the "DES Breaker":
- ______________
-
- Actually, one can probably get that $56 just out of figures b), c) and
- d).
-
- $56 = (b) * (c) / (d)
-
- I'm ignoring capital costs, in this analysis, but I'd suspect that so
- does the NSA. Governments don't tend to consider "capital costs" to
- be REAL costs, for a variety of reasons.
-
- And if anyone wishes to publicise the values b), c) and d), that's
- THEIR choice. Those three numbers are probably considered QUITE
- secret.
-
- --
- Christopher Browne | PGP 2.0 key available
- cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca |======================================
- University of Ottawa | Genius may have its limitations, but
- Master of System Science Program | stupidity is not thus handicapped.
-