NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/talk/politics/misc/65265

Text File | 1992-12-23 | 9.1 KB | 165 lines

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!gatech!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!stein.u.washington.edu!wells
From: [e-mail] (Vernon Wells)
Subject: Re: Unfair trade practices. (WAS: space program necessary)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:26:15 GMT
Lines: 153

[e-mail] (James P. Reynolds) writes:

>>From article <[e-mail]>, by [e-mail]
>u (Paul Dietz):
>>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>olaf.edu (Alex Kamilewicz) writes:
>>>
>>> A country that spends less on space is Japan.  Boy, that lack
>>> of spinoffs has really crippled *their* technology.  And the
>>> country that launches the most rockets, Russia, sure has the
>>> world's most advanced technology, doesn't it?
>>>
>>This is a bad analogy.  I dont believe there is all too much that the
>>Japanese have actually invented, that added to their technology.
>>Sure, they make the best technical products in the world probally, but
>>they didnt really invent much of it, they are just better workers,
>                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I disagree with this.  I don't think they are really better workers, I just
>think they get ahead in world markets through dirty trade practices.


>>                                                                   and
>>what the rest of the world invents, they perfect.  Im sure someone will
>>disagree, but I feel the Japanese actually lack in the technology
>>department when it comes to actually creating brand new ideas.  How many
>>things have the Japanese actually invented?  As far as Russia goes,
>>geez, who knows what they have been doing for the past 20 years?  :)
>>
>>- Stalker
>>

>I agree that the Japanese don't really bring totally new ideas to market as
>much as we do.  And I think most of what they've done is just stolen American
>technologies, such as VCRs, televisions, flat panel displays, semiconductor
>products, etc.

Stealing is all relative.  It is true that they Japanese spend more on R&D
for product upgrading than for new development, but this doesn't make them
evil or wrong.  It makes them smart.  It generally costs less to improve
existing technology, than to develop entirely new products (although the
latter is very important!)

>They let our small, high-risk, start-up entrepenurial companies take all the
>risks.  Then when they see something we have that works well and is a good
>idea, they come out with a version of their own, run our companies out of
>business with patent suits and product dumping, and make billions of dollars
>in profits on our backs.

It is true that the Japanese do excersise product dumping and patent
suits, but they are hardly alone in that practice.  I don't support either
one, and even as a vigorous free-trade advocate, I think anti-dumping
laws are very necessary.  But US companies do not have monopoly rights
of TVs, radios, IC chips, autos, etc.  Let's face it: when the Japanese
change things, they generally make them better.  Otherwise, people wouldn't
buy them.  Also, the Japanese of late have been very good at promoting
entrepeneurs world-wide, when the US has been hesitant (one bright, shining
example is Virtual Reality).  That is not to say that the Japanese are
sterling in their practices, of course.  (For anybody reading this who
does not know what dumping is, it is: the sale of products at below the
manufacture price [which is generally made up by funds elsewhere, like
govn't subsidies or increased domestic prices, both of which the Japanese
companies use] in order to "corner a market" by forcing other competitors
therein to go broke.)

>Remember the message that was posted to the entire net about the popular paper
>on Japanese business strategy?  It is available from FTP site
>"monu6.cc.monsh.edu", directory "pub/nihongo".  Also available are the PBS
>"Frontline" programs "Losing the War with Japan" and the Matsushita program.
>Try getting "losewar.pbs", "matsushita.pbs", and "japanyes".  These are both
>enlightening and infuriating to anyone concerned about the state of US
>industry.  I recommend them highly.

I would like to direct the readers (and especially the poster; I think
you would find this fascinating) to a post I just made to this newsgroup.
It concerns "Lean Production", the revolutionary Japanese style of
manufacturing and management.  It is important to see that the Japanese
are not "beating" us because of "unfair business practices", but instead,
because their SYSTEM works better.  (A very notable exception is in the
service industry.)  Although nobody beats good old Yankee ingenuity, the
US seriously lags in market-place flexibility.  A most prevalent example
of this is in the Auto industry.  For more information on
Lean Production, read "The Machine That Changed the World", a report
produced by MIT and Harvard business school --- the ones who coined the
term, and whose report covered this very industry.  (For example, in
Japan, auto-dealers [who are usually controlled by the parent company, so the
adversarial role between the two is eliminated] typically visit the home of
their customers every year.  This has two purposes: to get family responses
to new products, and to the assess
the needs of the family.  In that way, they can respond more quickly to
the needs of their customers.  Most Japanese, therefore, stick
with one dealer for their entire life -- and it's not because of some
harmful tradition.  Their dealers are very responsive to their individual
needs.)

>It is truly disappointing, how many Americans accept the dogma that US workers
>are somehow less productive (They aren't) or more lazy (Bullshit) than
>Japanese workers.  I just wish Americans would give themselves the credit they
>deserve, and not let the Japanese cartels push them around.

I would also like to emphasize that the productivity gap is a myth.  The
Japanese and US are neck-and-neck.  The Japanese rate is *increasing* more
rapidly than the US, primarily because US production is well-established,
and as I said before, because of the emergence of a revolutionary style of
manufacturing (again - as differentiated from services.  It has been
calculated that if the value of US services were figured into the trade
balance, the US would be several million dollars to the positive.)

>Companies like Matsushita, Honda, Sony, etc. are bullying us, and they even
>have us convinced that it's somehow our fault that they have taken our
>innovations away from us.  Let's stand up and claim our just rewards ... we
>invented a lot of the products that have made them rich.  The corrupt cartels
>in Japan are stealing our inventions as fast as we can develop them.  And
>regardless of what they might have us believe, we are no less hardworking and
>certainly more innovative than they are.

Competition in the world-markets is a very good thing.  Most Japanese auto
manufacturers produce cars with less defects and a lower production price
per unit than US companies.  Because of it, the American consumer wins.

>We need to get tough with Japan.  Make them open their markets, or start making
>it harder from them to sell to us.  When you meet up with a bully that just
>won't take no for an answer, the only solution is to stand up to him.

History has shown this to be a generally counter-productive response.  It
was not too long ago that the US cut off imports of $10 million worth of
textiles from China in response to a trade grievance.  The Chinese
retaliated by turning back $48 million worth of US grains.  Who got
shafted there?
    Now I admit that free-trade only works well if everybody is
playing the game (the Japanese won't even consider lowering the ban on
rice imports, because US farmers are the MOST productive agricultural
workers in the world.  The Japanese could kiss their domestic rice market
good-bye).  But a trade war would be extremely costly, and would set
the entire world back (trade barriers like 50% US tariff rates helped
to hold the world in the Great Depression).  Further, it is important for
us to compromise (rice is the *only* staple crop that the Japanese are
still self-sufficient in.  How would you feel if the US was dependent on
other nations for most of its wheat and beef?)  The US is 60% of the
Japanese market.  They are unlikely to start a serious trade war if they
can at all avoid it.  Such a thing would hurt the US badly; it would
obliterate the Japanese.

 >And that's just what these cartels are ... trade bullies.


>Jim Reynolds   ---   "I am no doormat to Matsushita, or Honda, or Toyota,
>                      or Sony, or any other Japanese company."

However, it is true.  Americans don't have to feel like the years of
economic growth are over.  We still have a lot of spunk, and I think that
the world is definitely becoming a freer place to trade, benefiting us
all.  In that enironment, America will once again show her might.