NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/talk/politics/mideast/23858

Internet Message Format | 1992-12-22 | 3.4 KB

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From: [e-mail] (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Dec 92 03:54:33 GMT
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Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41
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In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:24:43 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Makowsky) writes:
>   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>   # What do you think happened?  Were the deportees convicted of any
>   # crime?  No.  Thus under the presumption of innocence until proven
>   # guilt, the Israelis just committed a mass deportation of innocent
>   # civilians.
>
>       They commited a deportation of HAMAS members.  They openly admit
>   that.  They are actually deserving of death.  This is just another
>   case of the weak and wimpy way Israel treats terrorists.  Because they
>   did not execute them, some will commit acts of terrorism resulting in
>   loss of life.

Were the deportees convicted of terrorism?  No.  Were the deportees
proven in a court of law to be members of an outlaw group?  No.
Indeed, according to independent reports, many if not most of the
deportees were _not_ members of Hamas at all.  They may have spoken
out in favor of Hamas, but were not members.  It is doubtful that many
if any of the deportees were Hamas guerillas.

You cannot execute or deport an entire population because of a fear
that some of them may eventually become criminals.

>   # I wonder how many atrocities have been committed in the name of
>   # "security"?  Certainly the Holocaust numbers among them.  The
>   # invasion of Poland is another.
>
>       You are being ridiculous here.  By following your theory to its
>   logical conclusion, governments should do nothing in the name of
>   security.  Well, that will have all of the effect (actually quite
>   less) of a morality Maginot line.

By hyperbole you can prove anything.  We are both guilty of that at
times, I admit.

>   # The problem here is that it is clear that Israel doesn't know what is
>   # going on.  Mass deportations is a response out of proportion to the
>   # crime.  Guilt by association is assumed.  So the ideas is if you round
>   # up enough of the suspicious characters and send them all packing, no
>   # more crimes will be committed?  Whoever has that idea is the one that
>   # should be committed.
>
>       Don't be an idiot.  No one is claiming that all of them
>   participated in the murder.  They do, however, belong and acknowledge
>   support for the organization that is proud to have the murderers as
>   members.

By that argument, any Likud member should be deported from Israel
immediately.  Schamir was, after all, a terrorist as well.  Guilt
by association is a tool of totalitarianism, not one of justice.
--
=Jim  [e-mail] (Jim Eggert)