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- Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
- Path: sparky!uunet!uunet.ca!canrem!dosgate!dosgate![faraz.rabbani@canrem.com]
- From: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
- Subject: Pakistan is Lilbit different
- Message-ID: <1992Dec29.4739.24622@dosgate>
- Reply-To: "faraz rabbani" <faraz.rabbani@canrem.com>
- Organization: Canada Remote Systems
- Distribution: soc
- Date: 29 Dec 92 23:53:15 EST
- Lines: 88
-
-
- RR> faraz rabbani (faraz.rabbani@canrem.com) wrote originally:
- RR> : Exactly, but the PRESENT CRISIS at Ayodhya was started by Hindus,
- RR> : not Muslims (who liked where the Mosque *was*)...
-
- To which rajesh@ivy (Rajesh Raman) replied:
-
- RR> The present crisis when viewed in isolation was created by the
- RR> Hindus. But you cannot view it in isolation. It was because of a
- RR> feeling of being persecuted by Muslims for the last 1000 years.
-
- I am not laying any BLAME on them. But you cannot draw your justice
- injustly now by committing illegal acts.
-
- : RR> One of the reasons for the destruction of the mosque was the view
- : RR> amongst Hindus that it was time that they acted. There has been a
- : RR> history of brutal oppression of Hindus under many Muslim regimes in
- : RR> the past 1000 years and that cannot just be ignored. It's sad that
- : RR> some guys on the net deny that this ever happened . This is akin to
- : RR> what the neo-nazis in Germany and the KKK are doing. They deny that
- : RR> Hitler ever exterminated Jews.
-
- [to which I originally replied:]
- RR> : But to my knowledge, the Jews do not go en masse to Germany
- RR> : destroying buildings, etc... The past's justice CANNOT be imparted
- RR> : now... Like this, I can say that my cave-living descendants roamed
- RR> : all over the world; therefore I OWN the world... does not work that
- RR> : way, bud...
-
- RR> I'm sorry I couldn't get the connection between Jews going to
- RR> Germany and what I said. You're right that we cannot keep dwelling on
- RR> what happened in the past. What has to be done is to acknowledge each
- RR> others' mistakes frankly and then go on with life with nothing on
- RR> our hearts.
-
- You mentioned neo-nazis. So I say that DO Jews go en masse to
- Germany and "take" justice from the German people for what was done
- to Jews during the Holocaust? Similarly, tearing down a mosque 450
- years later makes no sense. The Spaniards don't tear down the
- Moors' mosques as a response to some alleged Moor atrocities...
-
- : RR> Both the destruction of the mosque in India and the destruction of
- : RR> the temples in other countries are equally reprehensible. We cannot
- : RR> ignore the fact that both happened and not just one of them.
- RR> :
- RR> : But one ignited the other... One was the issue, and the other was
- RR> : the result of the issue. Both sad though, VERY SAD and
- RR> : reprehensible, I agree fully. But the bigger outrage is what
- RR> : triggered the death of 1200 plus people...
-
- RR> Correct. Faraz I know that you cannot justify the death of even
- RR> one person by saying that it had to be done so it was done. But how
- RR> do you make Muslims acknowledge that what their kings did some years
- RR> ago wasn't correct and you shouldn't glorify those people and be
- RR> blind to what happened? Because if that doesn't happen the same
- RR> tensions are going to remain. That is the crux of the problem. But
- RR> doing what was done (destruction of the mosque & the killing) is no
- RR> solution.
-
- Well... My *personal* view is that I DO NOT consider "majestic"
- rulers to be all that "great". Sure, they (Romans, Greeks,
- Egyptians, Moghuls, Brits, Nazi Germany,...) built huge monuments
- and lived in luxury. But to me a very important measure of
- greatness of rulers is how the masses lived. The Moghuls *did* a
- lot for the subcontinent, though they *did* commit many wrongs.
-
- RR> And you forgot to reply to my poser on how to decide when a demand
- RR> for secession was legit and when it wasn't.
-
- To that I have no reply. Legitimacy depends on point of view.
- Surely, the now-110 million Pakistanis and 120 million BenglaDeshis
- prefer independance to being part of "India". For most Muslims, the
- thought of living under a non-Muslim majority is not a good
- prospect; as a situation of Muslim majority/dominance is not a good
- prospect for Hindus.
-
- I, for one, hope that (sometime in the future) the subcontinent may
- one day be able to build stronger economic ties. With these is
- bound to come the realisation that we are very similar and CAN
- coexist.
-
- Faraz Rabbani
-
- ... Sure I'm weird, but I'm saving up to be eccentric.
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