NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/soc/culture/jewish/24246

Internet Message Format | 1992-12-30 | 4.0 KB

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24246 soc.culture.arabic:6059
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!enuxhb.eas.asu.edu!makowsky
From: [e-mail] (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:20:19 GMT
Lines: 78

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

# In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
# >In article <[e-mail]>
# >[e-mail] writes:

# >>If you mean that Eretz Yisrael is the homeland of the Jews and not of
# >>any other nation as well then you are wrong, because it is also the
# >> homeland of the Palestinians.
# >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

# >How come?
# >You should learn first about the strangers population in eretz yisrael
# >before writing something like that.

# Ok.

# >Please read Britanica 1910 "Palestine -population " and other sources.
# >The strangers ("Arabs") are mainly new commers: Gypsies, Egyptians,
# >Persians, Bosnians, Afghans, Algirians, Syrians...
# >The term "Palestians" was used during WW2 to describe the Jews from
# >eretz yisrael volunteered to fight Germany ( Oxford dic.). This term
# >was adopted during the last 20 years by the Arabian propaganda in
# >order to convince people as if the non Jews in Erets Yisrael form a
# >specific society.

# The fact that Palestinian Arabs were readily distinguishable from
# other Arabs around the beginning of this century is easily apparent
# on reading anthropological accounts of that period.  For example,
# Philip Baldensperger's narrative over a number of issues of the
# Palestine Exploration Fund Quarterly Report, 1916-7, make it
# very clear that the many miscellaneous newcomers were immediately
# distinguishable from the native Palestinian fellahin.

    Yes, strangers in the north were distinguishable from fellahin in
the north.  The same in the south.  This proves nothing except that
family clans in one area look like each other.  It says nothing (and
for Brendan to make his case it needs to say a lot) about the
relationship between clans.

# Nobody disputes that there was significant migration into and out
# of Palestine over many years, but your contention that most
# Palestinian Arabs of 1910 resulted from it is not supported by
# the evidence.  Here is one of many pieces of quantitative evidence
# that prove you are dead wrong:

    If it proves him dead wrong you ommitted a lot.

#   Birth places of residents of Jerusalem and Hebron districts in 1905.

#                        Cities              Villages
#   district       Jerusalem  Hebron     Jerusalem  Hebron

#   same place        78.0     96.7        93.9     94.8
#   other Palestine   10.3      2.5         5.7      4.4
#   not Palestine     11.7      0.8         0.4      0.8

#   [U. O. Schmelz, Population characteristics of Jerusalem and Hebron
#      districts according to the Ottoman census of 1905, in Ottoman
#      Palestine 1800-1914 (G. Gilbar, ed.), (Brill Leiden, 1990).]

    As we now know due to the deabte over where Yassir Arafat was
born, what used to be registered as birth places was not where they
were born, but where the births were registered.  Someone born in say
Amman who had his birth registered in Jerusalem would be listed as
having been born in Jerusalem.  This is the center of the controversy
over where Arafat was born since it is how things were done.

# These figures demonstrate that even in the most cosmopolitan place in
# Palestine, Jerusalem city, most people who lived there in 1905 were
# born there.

    Perhaps, although I doubt it.  AT any rate you have not shown it.
--
    There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

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