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- Newsgroups: sci.environment
- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!pacbell.com!pbhye!mjvande
- From: mjvande@pbhye.PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
- Subject: Re: Save the Planet and the Economy at the Same time!
- Reply-To: mjvande@PacBell.COM (Mike Vandeman)
- Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
- Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 21:11:01 GMT
- Message-ID: <1992Dec24.211101.7670@pbhye.PacBell.COM>
- References: <1992Dec23.234057.13139@pbhye.PacBell.COM> <1992Dec24.143924.2833@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>
- Lines: 86
-
- -Me: Rather than react vehemently (my first thought was BULLSH*T!!!), I will
- -just point out to you that wealth goes both ways. I am an active contributor
- -to three separate environmental groups. I recycle everything possible. I
- -won't make broad sweeping statements like yours, except to say I would guess,
- -due to the "generally" higher level of education per capita in suburban areas,
- -that suburbanites tend to have a better environmental awareness than city
- -dwellers.
-
- I am not talking about "awareness", but actions. I agree that a lot of
- HYPOCRITICAL pseudoenvironmentalists may live in the suburbs. Or maybe
- "ignorant", if you prefer. Suburban lifestyles are extremely damaging, in
- spite of recycling & conserving toothpaste.
-
- - As I've said before, the "suburban sprawl" phenomenon described in
- -"Edge City" (an insightful book) is the product of a LOT of factors.
- -Nobody thought about environmental degradation when they founded Evanston,
- -IL (an early suburb of Chicago).
-
- But why add to the problem?
-
- -: -Me: This really is a good idea. Take away more cash from the middle
- -: -class so they are closer to the level of those living in the inner
- -: -cities.
- -:
- -Vandeman: No, just to fix the environment.
- -
- -Me: Your original statement (the letter) talked about social equity.
-
- Nonsense. The environment was even in the title (& still is).
-
- -Me: On bikes?? (I know you can wear rainsuits. It's also been my
- -experience that bikes become more hazardous on roads, especially those
- -shared with cars.)
-
- I avoid streets containing cars.
-
- -Me: - 2) Snowfall frequency?
- -:
- -V: Never, but there are clothes for that.
- -
- -Me: Ever try riding your bike on ice, or into the teeth of a 20-mph
- -headwind at -5 degrees C? Try it in Minneapolis.
-
- Then use an electric car, if you insist, although transit would be
- warmer.
-
- -Me: A lot of people have to have a certain attire/dress for work. An article
- -on alternative forms of commuting in D.C. pointed out that just having a
- -shower at the workplace would help. Plus, have you ever seen how much
- -paper a legal secretary takes home? Try carrying that briefcase eight blocks.
-
- In a backpack. How much can you need in 1 night?
-
- -Me: This helps (so do I, to an extent). A huge percentage of workers don't
- -have it, which restricts their options. (Check the amount of time you
- -devote to transit below).
-
- These are all choices. I chose my job in preference to higher paying jobs
- that destroy the environment or are military-related.
-
- -Me: Having children is a lifestyle choice that heavily weights
- -the location of a home. See previous posts for more insight.
-
- And heavily damages the environment, in most cases, especially in the US.
-
- -Me: Didn't answer the whole question, but that's O.K. I'm healthy
- -and I rarely see a doctor, so it doesn't affect me much. For parents
- -with children, it's a MASSIVE consideration, one in which lack of
- -proximity can devour huge chunks of time. Kids get sick a lot.
-
- It's hypocritical to say you need a car for children, when cars are so
- dangerous (in numerous ways) for children!
-
- -Me: That's a big difference. And the time vs. $$ vs. environment question
- -is still one of the main reasons so many people drive cars. I'd be willing
- -to double my percentage, but not much more than that. (If I could read
- -while doubling, that'd be better. Can't read on a bike.)
-
- Yes, let me know when you work that one out. I would live to read while
- biking.
-
- -P.S. E-mail a reply, if you wish to. My system will eat anything posted on
- -Dec. 24 or 25 before I get back on Monday. Otherwise, save this and
- -reply on Monday. Thanks!
-
-
-