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- Path: sparky!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u13054
- Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
- Date: Friday, 25 Dec 1992 16:20:47 CST
- From: Howard Wachtel <U13054@uicvm.uic.edu>
- Message-ID: <92360.162047U13054@uicvm.uic.edu>
- Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
- Subject: Odd chess position (not about Yugoslavia
- References: <1992Dec22.181439.15595@midway.uchicago.edu>
- <1992Dec23.120510.617@uoft02.utoledo.edu> <PHR.92Dec23124354@napa.telebit.com>
- <1992Dec24.001423.23983@pony.Ingres.COM>
- <1992Dec24.153554.629@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
- Lines: 45
-
- >>> > Obligatory chess question: Does there exist a chess position in
- >>> > which Black has enough material to mate White in theory, but Black
- >>> > cannot mate White even with White's cooperation, while on the other
- >>> > hand White can mate Black without Black's cooperation?
- >>>
- >>> No. If it can be proven that black cannot mate white even with white's
- >>> cooperation, then it is impossible in theory for black to mate white.
- >>>
- >> Correct. For example, in the following position Black has enough material
- >> to mate White, but Black cannot mate White even with White's cooperation:
- >>
- >> - - - - k - - -
- >> - - - - - - - - Using the "Winslow" notation for Pawns: o is BP, O is WP
- >> - o - o - o - o
- >> o O o O o O o O
- >> O - O - O - O -
- >> - - - - - - - -
- >> - - - - K - - -
- >> - - - - - - - -
- >>
- >> Now to find a position where White has a forced win... that's another story.
- >> Ugh!
-
- >could mate. (So to speak.) Interesting problem. Any other solutions?
-
- The above is not a "solution" to the original problem as posed since
- White cannot checkmate Black. (But it would be interesting to see what
- would happen if the above occurred in a blitz game and someone's flag
- fell.) If stalemates are allowed, there should be many possible solutions,
- such as:
-
- - - - - R b k r
- - - - - O - - o
- - - - - O K - O
- - - - - - - - - (O = White pawn, o = Black pawn)
- - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - -
-
- Here although Black has mating material, he cannot possibly checkmate
- White because White's next move will either checkmate or stalemate Black.
-
- ________________________________________________________________
- Howard K. Wachtel University of Illinois at Chicago
- U13054@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU Phone (312) 975-7970
-