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- Xref: sparky alt.feminism:6658 soc.men:21932 soc.women:21971
- Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.men,soc.women
- Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner
- From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
- Subject: Re: Living in a State of Siege
- Message-ID: <1992Dec31.060738.7301@netcom.com>
- Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
- References: <168C1CB92.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu> <1992Dec23.014026.23136@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> <168C692F9.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu>
- Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 06:07:38 GMT
- Lines: 79
-
- In article <168C692F9.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu> Diane writes:
- >In article <1992Dec23.014026.23136@cbnewsk.cb.att.com>
- >noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
- >
- > <examples of male violence against men>
- >
- >>Who raised these men?
- >
- >Oh for godsakes; how long are we going to blame mommy?
-
- When we stop blaming everyone, which may be a long long time.
-
- > When do we
- >get to grow up and take responsibility for our selves?
-
- You can do it anytime, as can anyone. But it is PC to claim victimhood,
- and profitable to claim damages and redress.
-
- > I don't teach
- >my son to be any more violent than my daughter. You can argue from
- >a biological standpoint, from a social one- what ever pulls your
- >chain, but please! let us not forget that everyone one of us has some
- >measure of self-determination.
-
- Children do not. And if you argue from the biological standpoint, there
- is no such thing as self-determination. Heck, if you argue from the
- social "brainwashing" standpoint, most have no choice either. Unless
- they recieve the -proper- brainwashing.
-
- > It is people- not society; not their
- >mommies, who murder and rape and steal. Yes, it just so happens that
- >a majority of these murderers and rapists and thieves are men.
-
- It's really strange how enviornmental factors are claimed to be -major-
- limiting factors in womens lives, but it is unforgivable heresay to
- consider enviornmental factors when men are involved. Hell, women have
- been acquitted of first degree murder for enviornmental factors. I
- guess these only apply to women for some reason.
-
- > Aren't
- >they 'big' enough to accept responsibility for their own actions?
-
- You may want to discuss this with Jen. :^) I may not be qualified.
-
- > I'm
- >sorry if I'm just not co-dependent enough to make (or accept) lame
- >excuses like "mommy made me do it".
-
- How about something more realistic like mommy was a major factor in
- most mens lives. Since women are so nice, how then could these men
- be violent? I recall the studies that show women are about as violent
- as men in domestic situations, it seems that they learn as much voilence
- by watching mommy as they do by watching daddy.
-
- Women are not innocent, and they are not guilty, but there are clearly
- -part- of the situation. Perhaps if women took responsibility for raising
- their children as non-violent there would be less.
-
- >>>If you're not part of the cure, you're part of the problem. [ ]
- >>
- >>Uh-huh.
- >
- >Maybe you would prefer "if you're part of the problem, blame mommy"?
-
- Naaa, safer and perfectly PC to blame daddy exclusively. How is it that
- you decry taking responsibility in the same post in which you deny all
- responsibilty?
-
- >>Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
- >>TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM
- >
- >Diane
-
-
- Rich
-
- payner@netcom.com (not blaming mommy, but asking what the fuck is going on)
-
-
-