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- Newsgroups: alt.feminism,soc.women,soc.men
- Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!rpi!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!levine
- From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
- Subject: Re: Sophie Germain - Gender Differences
- References: <Bz02s5.6Ho@nic.umass.edu> <92344.212115RIPBC@CUNYVM.BITNET> <BzIuDz.A6C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Dec20.233452.25814@netcom.com>
- Message-ID: <BzM9Mp.DCo@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
- Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
- Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
- Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:56:47 GMT
- Lines: 61
-
- payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
-
- >In article <BzIuDz.A6C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
- >[...---...]
- >
- >>Let me also, since I'm already on my soapbox, talk about another
- >>argument you advanced in a different posting. I do not think
- >>that there is something wrong in *general* because an occupation
- >>is overwhelmingly of one gender.
-
- >This is the prime -discrimination- indicator used by a number of feminists
- >and watchdog groups. How many times has the number of women in Congress
- >been used as a telling point?
-
- I do not agree with this indicator; and am quite willing to express my
- disagreement about it in public.
-
- >> I do think in *particular*, that
- >>mathematics is not welcoming enough to people of nonstandard
- >>backgrounds -- not only women, but other individuals who are the wrong
- >>age or social class. I think there are a lot of obstacles to
- >>becoming a research mathematician, that overemphasize speed,
- >>memorization, energy and endurance, and don't have enough to do with
- >>an actual ability to create mathematics.
-
- There is a general consensus about this last sentence, among research
- mathematicians.
-
- (I am curious as to your mathematical background.)
-
- >Publish or perish, I always thought it was a bad idea, but it is a
- >reality.
-
- Not every current "reality" is worth keeping, or will be kept.
- The only constant is change.
-
- >>For these reasons, I am in favor of institutions like Mills College's
- >>summer research program in mathematics, for talented female
- >>undergraduates. I just wish more such programs were available, and
- >>available to other individuals of nonstandard backgrounds.
-
- >It's only sexism if it's to the advantage of white males, I keep forgetting.
- >Do you imagine that a "summer research program in mathematics, for talented"
- >male "undergraduates" would be well recieved or precieved as non-sexist?
- >I suspect women everywhere would be in an uproar.
-
-
- The only reason I am in favor of programs like the Mills College
- program, is because in the current culture, *many* women have obstacles
- to overcome in entering mathematics. If this were not the case, I
- would not be in favor of such a program.
-
- You have a point, though, that these programs should be geared more
- towards helping *individuals* who have a history of cultural obstacles,
- not members of specific *groups*.
-
- >Rich
-
- >payner@netcom.com
-
- Lenore Levine
-