home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Newsgroups: sci.environment
- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!ncar!vexcel!dean
- From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
- Subject: Re: intimidation
- Message-ID: <1992Dec17.154634.9130@vexcel.com>
- Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO
- References: <427.38.uupcb@pcs.sj.ca.us> <1992Dec13.211636.22639@vexcel.com> <389@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov>
- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:46:34 GMT
- Lines: 50
-
- In article <389@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov> hwstock@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov (stockman harlan w) writes:
- >>You know, I run into so many simplistic statements by anti-environmentalists
- >>with unsupportable arguments about the "myth" of the ozone hole or
- >>climate change. They are shallow and ignorant of scientific information
- >>but rant on and on about their favorite topic. They continue with these
- >>positions in the face of evidence because their followers love it (Rush
- >>Limbaugh comes to mind) and are even more ignorant. If only they would
- >>learn the facts. Their extremism hurts their entire movement and does
- >>not serve any constructive purpose.
- >
- >Learn to distinguish "anti-environmentalists" from healthy
- >skepticism and a desire for proof. Because someone does not kowtow to
- >all your beliefs, does not mean that person is necessarily against you
- >or out to get you.
-
- I think that I do distinguish between skeptics and "anti-environmentalists".
- My paragraph above was in response to those who save all of their
- criticism for environmentalists who misrepresent a case but ignore
- those who misrepresent in the other direction.
- >
- >For example, I believe in conservation, increased gas taxes, and all
- >reasonable measures to reduce the buildup of combustion products in the
- >atmosphere. At the same time, I believe that the atmospheric models that
- >claim to "prove" global warming are highly suspect; they contain too
- >many tunable parameters and are unable to meet the simplest test of a
- >scientific theory -- they cannot make a testable prediction. General
- >scientific principles make me fear global warming and make me want to
- >take measures to prevent the process, since the expectation (in the
- >sense of probability) is great.
- >
- >I believe in atmospheric change; that is precisely why I am skeptical of
- >global warming models. There is so much unexplainable noise in the
- >paleo-climate record, that I doubt many of the recent changes can be
- >tied to man-made emissions with any confidence. Maybe we need to improve
- >the global warming models; for my money, we should just practice
- >conservation while we wait for data and theory to improve.
-
- Recent comments in this group by climatologists show that the GCM's are
- not the sole basis for the concerns about climate change. You
- suggest that we practive conservation while we "wait" for better
- data and theory but many people would not consider this to be
- waiting. I would agree that conservation and efficiency are the
- appropriate tactics based on current knowledge and that is what
- most environmentalists are calling for now.
-
- --
- ==============================================================================
-
- Dean Myerson (dingo in boulder) (dean@vexcel.com)
-
-