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- Xref: sparky alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:3796 comp.org.eff.talk:7753 comp.security.misc:2321 alt.privacy:2678
- Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,comp.org.eff.talk,comp.security.misc,alt.privacy
- Path: sparky!uunet!boulder!tigger!bear
- From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
- Subject: Re: CERT and the Dept. of Justice on keystroke monitoring
- Message-ID: <1992Dec17.181217.6001@colorado.edu>
- Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet)
- Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.cs.colorado.edu
- Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
- References: <1992Dec15.230407.17896@sun44.synercom.hounix.org> <b+arapg@dixie.com> <1992Dec17.160222.1313@colorado.edu>
- Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:12:17 GMT
- Lines: 50
-
- In article <1992Dec17.160222.1313@colorado.edu> bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles) writes:
- >In article <b+arapg@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
- >>The
- >>point is, it is the owner of the resource's right to set the rules
- >>anyway he so chooses.
- >
- >If someone contracts for use of computer resources, does not that person
- >_own_ in some sense those resources?
- >
- >What you're saying implies that if I rent time on a system, develop
- >a commercial product, then get undercut by the owner of that system
- >I have no recourse because he "owns" the system I rented and everything
- >on it, even if I paid hard money in return for CPU cycles and mass storage?
-
- I was in a hurry when I posted this earlier, so let me try to put this
- a little more formally.
-
- If I lease a resource, be it computer time or an apartment, I expect the
- property owner to _assign_ me most property rights. For instance, my landlord
- may _not_ enter my apartment willy-nilly nor give permission for others, e.g.,
- the police, to do so. They must provide _at least_ 24 hours notice of when
- and why they wish to enter my apartment unless there is clear evidence of
- immediate danger; e.g., smoke billowing out of the windows.
-
- They retain the right to sell the property and we agree contractually to
- other limitations (e.g., no structural changes), but as a first approximation
- they have temporarily surrendered their property rights to me.
-
- Likewise, if I pay for computer access I expect the sysop to stay out of
- my files and processes unless I give explicit permission, provided I stay
- within my own directory tree and public spaces (e.g., /tmp), etc. (Obviously,
- if I try changing files in /bin the sysop has a legitimate need to ask what
- I'm doing).
-
- They can refuse to do so, but if so they should be absolutely explicit about
- it because many people, including myself, find that untolerable.
-
- "Property rights" are not as clear-cut as you assume. The owner of a
- computer system, like an apartment complex owner, has the right to ensure
- that the physical system is protected but the data on it, like the contents
- of the apartements in a complex, belong to the individuals who have leased
- the use of the resources.
-
- BTW, the University of Colorado requires a "computing fee" be paid by the
- students, so the students are directly paying for the use of such resources;
- it isn't simply provided out of the philanthropy.
-
- --
- Bear Giles
- bear@fsl.noaa.gov/cs.colorado.edu
-