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- Newsgroups: soc.motss
- Path: sparky!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!dolores!bob
- From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
- Subject: Re: Fundamentalists and the clitoris
- In-Reply-To: sunderl@obvius.stl.dec.com's message of 17 Nov 92 05:02:46 GMT
- Message-ID: <BOB.92Nov18202656@dolores.Stanford.EDU>
- Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU
- Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
- References: <9NOV92.11344298@enh.nist.gov> <1992Nov9.215419.16057@news.ysu.edu>
- <1992Nov12.035614.14567@funlwb.enet.dec.com>
- <BOB.92Nov11210959@dolores.Stanford.EDU>
- <1992Nov17.050246.12001@funlwb.enet.dec.com>
- Date: 18 Nov 92 20:26:56
- Lines: 73
-
- In article <1992Nov17.050246.12001@funlwb.enet.dec.com>
- sunderl@obvius.stl.dec.com (Mike Sunderland) writes:
-
- Seriously though, what is it that pisses you off about the
- "religious right" so much? I mean what makes the religious right
- the bad guys?
-
- They want to legislate their morality for everyone in the US. Their
- moral code has no place in it for freedom of speech, thought,
- religion, or expression; no place for gays, lesbians, and bisexuals;
- no place for rational scientific enquiry; and no place for women who'd
- prefer not to be barefoot, pregnant and immured in the kitchen.
-
- Ok, they hold a world view that is probably seriously at odds with
- yours. They think you are doing something morally wrong in having
- sex with a partner of the same gender as yourself. AND they want to
- make sure that everybody hears about what they have to say about
- it. Are they wrong just because they disagree with you and
- disaprove of something that you hold very dear, or is there more to
- it than that? And what does all this creationism stuff have to do
- with the subject?? Enlighten me.
-
- Again, they want to enforce their oppressive "morality" by law. Even
- if they have a majority, enforcing such an oppressive moral code on
- the population at large is a clear case of a tyranny of the majority.
-
- BTW, I do not believe it is possible to avoid legislating morality
- entirely. My point is that the "morality" of the religious right is
- such a hateful and narrow thing that enacting it into the law is
- clearly evil.
-
- Creationism is relevant as a case in point. Logic is irrelevant to
- these people. Scientific facts are irrelevant to these people.
- Arguments based on the notion of human rights are irrelevant to these
- people. All that they care about is whatever beliefs they happen to
- hold at the moment.
-
- BTW, on the judgement thing - am I not allowed to hold an opinion
- about what other people do just because their activities don't
- affect me? If I don't like what you do does that mean I am judging
- you? Is it ok for me to believe that some things are open to
- personal preference while some other things are not?
-
- If you choose to believe that some behavior on the part of other
- consenting adults that does not affect you in the least is "sinful",
- "inappropriate", "degenerate", or "bad for them" without compelling
- rational evidence supporting your opinion then that belief is a
- gratuitous judgement.
-
- I think we all make gratuitous judgements of the above kind, and I'd
- say these judgements are nothing more than useless and mostly harmless
- mental baggage --- as long as no attempt is made to inflict these
- judgements on others.
-
- On the other hand, the religious right think their mental baggage is
- "the word of God", and wants to inflict it on everyone.
-
- I'm not trying to stir up a flame war or poke fun at anyone, but I
- do want to understand. I am often annoyed when I see people talking
- and acting as though sexual immorality were the only kind of
- immorality - ignoring things like greed, corruption, dishonesty and
- all kinds of injustice. But I think maybe you have some other
- concerns?
-
- I hope my response, and the other responses as well, have helped.
-
- The bottom line is that while rational people can recognize the
- possibility of a legitimate difference of opinion on an issue, a
- zealot cannot --- there is only one right answer.
-
- The US religious right is led by charismatic zealots.
-
- - Bob
-