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- Xref: sparky soc.history:9435 alt.society.civil-liberty:6573
- Newsgroups: soc.history,alt.society.civil-liberty
- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!stanford.edu!hubcap!ncrcae!ncrlnk!psinntp!newstand.syr.edu!greeny
- From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
- Subject: Re: [ACLU] A History of the Bill of Rights
- Message-ID: <1992Nov13.183632.6565@newstand.syr.edu>
- Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
- References: <1992Nov11.044456.7412@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> <1992Nov11.211933.2639@pony.Ingres.COM> <1992Nov12.040909.625@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
- Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 18:36:32 EST
- Lines: 46
-
- In article <1992Nov12.040909.625@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
-
- >The case in question, US v. Miller, says nothing of the sort. However,
- >the ACLU position paper (and supporters of gun control in general)
- >implies this. If fact, the ruling _does_ consider the Second Amendment:
- >The Court ruled that the Amendment should be applied as a means to
- >preserving the militia, which they said includes everyone "physically
- >able to act in cencert for the common defense" (that is, just about
- >everyone.) Specifically, the Court asked if Jack Miller's ownership
- >of a sawed-off shotgun had a "reasonable relationship to the
- >preservation or efficiency of the militia." If so, his right to
- >own it would be protected under the Second Amendment. Miller was clearly
- >a member of the militia (e.g. physically capable of military service.)
- >However, the Court found no evidence that a sawed-off shotgun was
- >a usefull militia weapon. They based this on past laws regulating
- >the militia and on the sort of weapons issued by the Army. Therefore,
- >the Court sustained Miller's conviction. The ruling, essentially,
- >was that the Second Amednment protects a citizen's right to own
- >militia-usefull weapons, but a sawed-off shotgun isn't such a
- >weapon. Usually (as I believe is the case in the ACLU position
- >paper), the Miller rulling is summerized as "limiting the Second
- >Amendment to the militia." That's partially true, but the
- >ruling also defined the militia as including just about everyone...
-
- I'm surprised that Frank didn't mention the oft-cited point that
- Miller was not represented the in US v. Miller, and that the SC was
- not presented with the fact that US troops used sawed-off shotguns
- during WWI.
-
- In any case, some time back I did my own mini-review of SC precedent
- on second amendment issues, in order to settle a dispute that arose
- during another thread. I concluded that the only thing that can be
- agreed upon is that SC precedent is so sparse and inadequate that nothing
- can be definitely determined from it (and almost *any* theory can find support
- in it).
-
- Anybody who is interested in a copy of my summary should just send me email.
- It will, at least, provide you with some background on second amendment
- precedent.
-
-
- --
- J. S. Greenfield greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
- (I like to put 'greeny' here,
- but my d*mn system wants a
- *real* name!) "What's the difference between an orange?"
-