NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #27/NN_1992_27.iso/spool/soc/culture/pakistan/17137

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From: [e-mail] (Zafar T. Minhas)
Subject: Re: A Refutation of Bahai view on Crucifixion and Prophethood
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Cincinnati
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:13:57 GMT
Lines: 706

I found this in soc.religion.islam

I haven't read all of it carefully enough, but i found it to be very interesting



In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>This is from Dr. Habib Siddiqui ([e-mail]):
>
>Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
>Subject: Re: A Refutation of Bahai view on Crucifixion and Prophethood
>
>        Bismillahir Rahmaneer Raheem
>(In the name of Allah, Most Merciful to all - Muslims and non-Muslims,
>in this world, and Most Merciful to ONLY Muslims in the Hereafter)
>
>Before I confront the Bahai view on the above subject, as presented by
>Babak Mohajerin, let me give a brief account of this religion how it
>started in order that Muslims have a fair understanding of what it stands
>for and why its understanding of certain explicit verses in the Qur'an
>are different than Muslims. (References are also cited for proof.)
>
>In the middle of the 19th century, Mirza Ali Muhammad Shirazi, an Iranian
>claimed to be the agent and Bab (door) of the awaited Imam Mahdi. He had
>a small following, and the sect came to be known as Babieh (Babism).
>After a short while, he claimed himself to be the awaited Imam (1), and
>later as a prophet and the bringer of a new religion (2). He was not
>emotionally balanced, and as such, later claimed Godhood (3). In Resalah
>Lel-Thamarah (Treatise for fruit), he wrote:
>                       "Truly I am certainly God: there is no God other
>than me. I am unique and single. Truly I am God, there is no God other
>than me - the eternal Lord, truly I am that very God and there is no God
>other than me who is unique and single. In the name of God who prevents
>and who is holy and pure, in praise of You my God, truly I call You and
>and all things to witness that You are truly God and there is no God
>other than You."
>
>For his contradictory statements he was often times confronted by the
>Ulema in Iran. He would usually repent and renounce his claim (4). His
>apparent insanity saved his life in more than one occasions (5). His
>writings for the illiterate laymen had some effect among the Babis, and
>they rioted against the government in some cities. In Isfahan, the rio-
>ters were aided by Governor Manucher Khan Gurji, a Russian of Armenian
>christian origin (6). Both the British and the Russian embassies were
>directly involved in these riots by aiding the Babis(7). Amir Kabir, the
>Grand Vizier, realizing that so long as the Bab was alive, his followers
>would not stop their rioting, executed him (5).
>
>After Bab's death, the Babis were led by Mirza Yahya Noori, known as
>Sobh-e-Azal (the eternal dawn). After an unsuccessful attempt to kill
>the Shah, the group was persecuted. Yahya fled to Baghdad, while his
>step-brother, Mirza Husein Ali  took shelter in the Russian embassy.
>Later, Husein was escorted to Baghdad by the official agents of the
>Iranian and Russian governments (8). Mirza Husein Ali sent a tablet to
>Russian emperor, praising and praying for him, confirming total servi-
>tude and expressing thanks (9). The latter allowed the Babis to const-
>ruct a temple in south of Russia in Aeshq-Abad and in its attempt to
>crush the Islamic government provided all help to the Babis (22).
>In Baghdad, where the Babis became Ottoman subjects, a serious fight
>broke out among them as to the issue of leadership of the community,
>since many forged the handwriting of Bab, claiming to be his successor.
>This and other clashes with Iraqi Muslims brought about a state of
>total chaos (10). The Ulema in Iraq wanted the Ottoman government to
>deport Babis for creating a total anarchy. Then the Babis were first
>moved to Istambul and later to Edirneh. When Mirza Husein claimed to be
>the successor of Bab, the Babis got divided into two opposing camps,
>each led by one of the step-brothers - Mirza Husein or  Mirza Yahya.
>With the unending riots and connections which the Babis held with the
>foreign embassies opposed to the Ottoman government, the latter exiled
>the followers of Yahya to Cyprus and those of Husein to Aaka in Pales-
>tine (11).
>
>When the support for Yahya's followers from the foreign governments
>diminished, the group gradually dispersed and vanished. Husein Ali
>was always able to keep in touch and get the support from foreign
>governments. He claimed the title of "Bahaullah" (the beauty of God)
>and described the Bab as the harbinger of his own emergence. Soon he
>gained full control over the Babis and founded the creed of Baha'ism.
>Like Bab before him, he first claimed prophethood (12) and then Godship
>(13). Meanwhile, he was receiving monthly salaries from the Czar (14).
>
>After his death in Aaka, his son, Mirza Abbas (known as Abbas Afandi)
>succeeded as leader of the Baha'is and called himself Abdul-Baha (the
>servant of Baha). When the communist revolution started asserting itself
>in early 20th century, Russian govt. stopped its support for the Bahais.
>Facing numerous difficulties, Abdul Baha then approached the British go-
>vernment offering to spy for them against the dying Ottoman empire (15).
>During the first World War and the aggressive entry of the British Army
>into Palestine under the generalship of Allenbee, the Bahais provided
>all possible help to the invaders. Learning this, Jamal Pasha, the Com-
>mander of the Ottoman forces, wanted to execute Abdul Baha for treason
>(16). Lord Balfour, the architect for the infamous Balfour declaration,
>the then British Foreign Secretary, ordered Gen. Allenbee to protect the
>life of Abdul Baha and his followers (17). Later, in a formal ceremony
>knighthood was granted to Abdul-Baha (18). Sir Abbas Afandi's funeral
>was personally attended by several British dignitaries, including Sir
>Herbert Samuel - the British Chief Commissioner in Palestine, who was
>one of the founders of the zionist state of Israel. In accordance with
>Abbas's will, the leadership came under his grandson, Showqi Afandi. He,
>too, helped realize the goals of British colonialism. And within a short
>period Baha'ism spread all over U.K. and its colonies, esp. Uganda (19).
>Showqi's contacts with the colonizers helped Bahaism to spread in U.S.A.
>and other parts of the world. He revived the intricate network of Free-
>masonry at a lower level in the form of Baha'ism, by offering the myth of
>"one world religion." (23)
>
>Having no son and nearing his death, Showqi appointed nine Bahais to consti-
>tute the Intl. Council of Bahaism and laid the foundation for the Baitul
>Adal A'azam (the Universal House of Justice) or the Administrative Orga-
>nization of World's Bahais.
>
>After his death, as per his will, Charles Mason Rimi, an American, with
>probable CIA connections was appointed the head of Baitul Adal (20).
>
>At present, with the power, money and conspiracies of world colonialism,
>Bahaism has fully committed itself to fulfill the dream of the world
>devouring powers to acquire global domination.
>
>As I have shown above, Baha'ism from its very inception was helped,
>materially and ideologically, by the Russian and British imperialism
>for furthering the latters' onslaught in Muslim lands. At a difficult
>period in Muslim history, Bahaism collaborated with the zionists for
>the establishment of state of Israel (21). Through its connection with
>Zionists  it penetrated various governments serving the
>interest of the West, a notable example is: Iran under the Shah (23).
>This servitude for the western masters, in turn, brought nothing but
>misery, poverty, strangulation, stagnation, murder, oppression, tyranny
>and whole-sale dependence, to the Muslim nation.
>
>It can also be noticed that Baha'ism, like Ahmedi/Qadianism, started
>with its founder's claim to be the awaited Imam Mahdi, which later
>developed into the claim for prophethood and divinity. (These groups
>do not accept the finality of Muhammad's prophethood.) Muslims, based
>on the sahih ahadith of Muhammad (SAWS), do expect the coming of Imam
>Mahdi (a descendant of Muhammad (SAWS); he will NOT be a Prophet since
>Muhammad (SAWS) is the LAST of the Prophets; he will follow the shariah
>of Islam) towards the end of time. He will come at a time when Muslims
>will be in a dire need to find a leader to lead them against forces
>which will try to extinguish Islam from the earth. He will lead the
>Muslims to victory, and establish justice. This expectation manifests
>itself into protests against oppression and injustice, and Muslims
>alone, unlike any other religious community on earth, have never been
>totally succumbed to the evil forces. Colonization was imposed upon
>our territories, from Morocco to Indonesia, yet, we never embraced
>the very dehumanization as a result of such process, and always resisted
>occupation, aggression and exploitation in our territories. The sacri-
>fice of Muslims in Algeria, Libya, Indian sub-continent, Indonesia, the
>Sudan, Somalia, and more recently in Afghanistan, Palestine and Bosnia
>are only a few of the examples in that road to combatting subjugation
>and foreign tyranny. Muslims have always tried to negate existing
>unjust conditions imposed upon the world by despots, whose weapons were
>force, money and deceit. This resistance of Muslims has always dis-
>comforted the enemies of Islam. In their attempt to weaken the very
>fabric of Islam, these enemies from without have always sought people
>from within who would distort the teachings of Islam. These enemies
>of Islam know (knew) that if they could create false Mahdis among
>Muslims, who instead of calling for jihad commands his followers to be
>puppets of the oppressors, then there will be no interruption to their
>exploitation. Hopes and dreams of Muslims will give away to despair,
>cowardice, lethargy and dependency.
>
>As a result of this conspiracy, in the last century alone, we find
>three claimants to be Imam Mahdi, e.g., Ali Muhammad Shirazi, Mirza
>Husein Ali and Mirza Golam Ahmed of Qadian, each of whom were suppor-
>ted by colonial powers of the West. None of these three, in turn, ever
>launched a Jihad movement against the colonizers. Instead, they acted
>as stooges for foreign forces, which were hostile to Islam. Baha'i
>leaders even spied against the Khilafah and collaborated with Zionists.
>It is inconceivable that this deviant group would have as much success
>without the moral and financial support from the enemies of Islam.
>As a matter of fact, Baha'ism proved to be the colonialists' most
>fruitful investment. Through its teachings, it offers a version of
>religion which is self-contradictory, deceitful, nonsensical and
>ludicrous. Despite its leaders' own servitude to foreign masters,
>their irrelevant verbiage about not participating in politics for
>nominal Bahais increase the stranglehold of Taghut over the subdued
>people, and fulfill the long-term objectives of its financiers.
>
>In their wishful dream about creating a world religion that encompasses
>all the various religions (from polytheistic religions like Hinduism to
>monotheistic religions like Islam) the leaders of the Baha'i faith over
>last several decades have written books which are self-contradictory.
>While the Qur'an and ahadith of Muhammad (SAWS) are very clear that all
>the scriptures (including the Bible) except the Qur'an has been corrupt-
>ed by human hands, the Bahais, in order to curry support from christians,
>appear to give the impression that they believe in the pseudepigraphic
>books of the New Testament, and that they accept the authenticity of the
>gospel accounts about Jesus's crucifixion. We, Muslims, don't have to
>butter someone in order to accept our views. The matter concerning Jesus
>is settled, as far as we are concerned.
>
>With the death of imperialism, today, neo-colonialism tries hard,
>through invented, deviated sects to alter and metamorphose the face of
>Islam and eliminate the main elements which comprise the revolutionary
>character of this great religion. They scheme and Allah schemes.
>Surely, Allah is the Best of the schemers. May Allah keep us on the road
>of guidance and save us from falsehood, no matter, under whatever dis-
>guise it comes. Ameen.
>
>References:
>==========
>(1) Nuqtat-ul-Kaaf (The dot of the letter Kaaf), compiled by M.J.
>    Kashani and E. Browne, Brill Printing House, Liden, Holland (1910);
>    Panj Sha'an (Five Affairs) of Ali Muhammad Shiraji;
>    Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi, Baha'i Publications, Amri Pub.,
>    Tehran (1946);
>    Zuhoor-ul-Haq (The appearance of the truth), p. 173.
>(2) Nuqtat-ul-Kaaf, p. 151;
>    Bayan (Expression) of Muhammad Shirazi, ch. 2, unit 2;
>    Makaatib (Letters) of Abbas Afandi, vol. 11, p. 266;
>    Al-Mufavedaat (Conversations) of Abbas Afandi, Brill Printing House,
>    Liden, Holland (1908), p. 124.
>(3) Lowhe Heikal-ul-din (The tablet of the image of religion), the
>    supplement to Bayan of Ali Muhammad Shirazi, p. 5;
>    Resalah Lel-Thamarah (Treatise for fruit) of Ali Muhammad Shirazi.
>(4) Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi, p. 138;
>    Rowdat-ul-Safe Nasiri of Mirza Reza Quli Khan, vol. 10, p.311, 423;
>    Naqtat-ul-Kaaf, p. 133;
>    Kashf-ul-Gheta'a (The removal of curtains), pp. 202-204;
>    Qarne Badi'a by Showqi Afandi, Amri Pub., vol. 1, p. 423;
>    Inshe'ab dar Baha'iat, pp.  70-74.
>(5) Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi;
>    Rowdat-ul-Safe Nasiri;
>    Kashf-ul-Gheta'a, p. 204;
>    Nasikh-ul-tavaarikh;
>    Kavaakeb-ul-durriah (The brilliant stars)
>(6) Talkhise Taarikhe Nabil Zarandi, p. 196.
>(7) Shooreshe Babian dar Iran (The rebellion of the Babis in Iran),
>    Pub. of Soviet Academy, Moscow (1939), vol. 30, pp. 143-159;
>    Naqtat-ul-Kaaf, p. 266;
>    Inshe'ab dar Baha'iat.
>(8) Kavaakeb-ul-durriah.
>(9) Mubeen (Clear) of Mirza Husein Ali, p. 76;
>    Qarne Badi'a, vol. 11, p. 86.
>(10) Inshe'ab dar Bahai'at, p. 83;
>     Ma'edahe Aasmaani (Heaven's table), Amri Pub., Tehran;
>     Qarne Badi'a, vol. 11, p. 177.
>(11) Qarne Badia, vol. 11, pp. 270, 271, 275;
>     Kavaakeb-ul-durriah, vol. 1, pp. 389, 381, 383;
>     Inshe'ab dar Bahai'at, p. 84.
>(12) Maqaalahe Shakhsie Sayyah of Mirza Husein Ali;
>     Iqan of Mirza Husein Ali;
>     Al-fava'ed (The advantage) of Mirza Abdulfadle Gulpaygani.
>(13) Mubeen, pp. 21, 48, 56, 210, 233, 286, 308, 342, 384, 385, 417...;
>     Makateeb, p. 225 (Abbas Afandi).
>(14) Majmoo'ahe Al-wahee Mubarak, p. 159 (Mirza Husein Ali).
>(15) Qarne Badi'a, vol. 11, p. 125; vol. 111, p. 291;
>     Inshe'ab dar Bahai'at, p. 121.
>(16) Qarne Badi'a, vol. 111, p. 297;
>     Inshe'ab dar Bahai'at, p. 121;
>     Bayaan-ul-haqaayeq (Expression of realities) of Abul Husein
>     Ayati, p. 71.
>(17) ibid.
>(18) Qarne Badi'a, vol. 111, p. 299;
>     Inshe'ab dar Bahai'at, p. 118.
>(19) Akhbare Amir, no. 4 (1950).
>(20) Inshe'ab dar Bahai'at, pp. 195-203.
>(21) Baha'i News, Sept. (1947);
>     Akhbaare Amri, (1947), No. 7.
>(22) Masaabihe Hedaayat (The lights of guidance) of Azizullah
>     Suleimannis, Amri Pub., Tehran (1947).
>(23) Baha'ism: a Sect at the Service of Colonialism by Mujtaba Sultani.
>======================================================================
> [e-mail] (Babak Mohajerin) writes:
>"As you are all aware the Synoptic Gospels along with the Johnian Gospel
>clearly indicate that Jesus was crucified by the Jews. Christians have
>long used this historical point to launch their biased attack towards the
>holiness and historical accuracy of the Holy Qur'an referring to the verse:
>'mA qa-ta-lohu wa mA sa-labohu'
>
>Here I attempt to provide a basis to show that there is no conflict between the
>crucifixion account in the Bible and the Qur'anic verse in Surih IV, Women,
>Verses 152-157. "they did not kill him, neither crucified him, only a
>likeness of that was shown to them". I will be very grateful to have your
>understandings in this matter (either directly emailed to me or on the Net)
>
>1) The Islamic experts show no general agreement on this account
>
>1.a) TA-BAREE has referred to the substituted one as one of the disciples
>by the name of Sarjoutee;
>1.b)BAY-ZA-VEE calls him a Jew by the name of Tee-ta-tus. SA'L-ABEE refers to
>him as a Jew by the name of Fil-tatus.
>1.c) Some other experts-- including IMAM FAKHR-i RA-ZEE -- refer to him as Judas
>(the traitor) (Tafseer-i Kabeer, Sharh-i Bey-zavee second part p127,
>Sharh-i Tabaree seventh part p10.)
>
>These are the out right leaders in the Schools of Islamic Thought & Theology
>and fail to come with a uniform or agreeable account of the event."
>
>Comments:
>=========
>While the Muslim scholars all agreed as to the fact that Jesus was
>NOT CRUCIFIED and that he did NOT DIE and that he was ascended to heaven
>ALIVE (without ever dying), there is some disagreement as to the identity
>of the person who might have been substituted. This is merely due to the
>fact that some of the historians simply passed on the information that
>they gathered from some of the early Christians who had accepted Islam.
>Tabari, for example, simply narrated everything that was related (heard,
>read, saw) to him on a certain matter, without verifying the authentici-
>ty of the matter. This, however, does not suggest that he and others had
>second thoughts about Jesus's so-called crucifixion. No, when the matter
>was explicated in the Qur'an that Jesus neither died nor was crucified,
>they accepted this like any other believer.
>
>Remember the messy history of the early christians: how the original
>disciples were persecuted by the Romans and ever influential Pauline
>christians. During the period between 30 to 70 C.E. there were serious
>unrests at different places against the Romans. The original christians
>did not escape the wrath of the Roman government, being accused of aiding
>the zealots. Those who escaped, fled to territories farther away, sprea-
>ding the true gospel of Jesus, which stated categorically that Jesus did
>not die on the cross and would return later to bring justice on earth,
>and that someone else who was transfigured to look like Jesus was cruci-
>fied. Some of these groups have come to be known as Basilidians,
>Ebionites, and others. In the 4th century when the Roman government
>itself accepted Pauline version of christianity (Trinity as its creed),
>those other groups, who did not accept Trinity, were crushed, their books
>destroyed/burned. A few escaped by taking refuge in territories out of
>reach of the Roman authorities. Some even went to caves, others into the
>deserts to the south. (Surah al-Kahf mentions about the people of Raquim
>(who were unitarian christians - Muslims following Isa (AWS) as a Prophet
>of Allah) who took shelter in the Cave because of fear of persecution.)
>
>These remnants of christians, who refused to worship Jesus as a God or a
>son of God, having lost their books, over a period of time developed
>their own understanding as to the identity of the person crucified.
>Some believed that it was Judas Iscariot, some believed that it was one
>of the disciples of Jesus who volunteered, and still there were others
>who believed differently. Muslim historians having come across these
>christians, most of whom had accepted Islam, related what they learned
>from them. So, their disagreement as to the identity of the person
>substituted on the cross is a direct result of the particular group of
>these former christians that they came across. Islamically, the identity
>of the person substituted on the cross is not even important. What is
>important is that Jesus did not die (spiritually or physically).
>
>Islam rejects the doctrine of crucifixion and its foundation on blood
>sacrifice and vicarious atonement for sins. Islam teaches that the first
>sin of Adam (as a result of his forgetfulness) was FORGIVEN by Allah
>when he repented; every person is accountable for his own sin; and that
>no one can make atonement for the sins of another. We may like to ask
>the Trinitarian christians and those who accept the crucifixion of Jesus
>the following questions:
>1. Does the crucifixion of Jesus as conceived by christian churches
>befit the Justice, Mercy, Power and Wisdom of Allah?
>2. Is it just for Allah to punish someone for his ancestor's mistake
>(or sin)?
>3. Is it just for Allah to make someone repent for the sins to which
>the repenter is no party?
>4. Is it justifiable to believe that Allah, who is Rahman (Merciful to
>Muslims and non-Muslims alike in this world) and Raheem (Merciful ONLY
>to Muslims in the Hereafter) was unable to forgive Adam (and Eve),
>even when he (they) repented? (The Qur'an says that Adam and Eve were
>forgiven.)
>5. Is it justifiable to think that all humanity, who came before Jesus,
>are doomed to go to hell, because they were born with the sin-nature
>inherited from their forefather, Adam, and that they missed the atone-
>ment paid through the blood of Jesus?
>6. Is it possible for a Prophet of God (whom the trinitarians call son
>of God) like Jesus to speak to God from the cross the way the gospel
>writers mention, in a voice of reproach or at best anxiety, esp. when
>he was supposed to be doing a noble act by dying for the sins of all
>humanity?
>7. Was Allah unable to forgive men's sins without this saddistic, cruel
>punishment of crucifixion? Is this the application of His Mercy and
>Forgiveness, or the reflection of His Justice?
>
>For Islam such inquiries do not arise and such perplexities are
>irrelevant, for the doctrine of Original Sin and its associated creed
>of vicarious atonement by blood sacrifice on cross is altogether rejected.
>We, however, do see a parallel between christian depiction of Jesus in
>the so-called New Testament (thanks to Pauline christians) and mytho-
>logical gods in pagan world, esp., Adonis, Horus, Osiris, Apollo, Bakus,
>Adamus, Athus, Mithras, and others. Is it logical to assume that the
>Pauline church adopted this pagan myth to sanctify the role of Jesus in
>order to facilitate the process of proselytizing a goyim people whose
>culture was ripe with such heathen, mythological fables? The answer
>seems to be obviously yes.
>
>Babak Mohajerin writes:
>" On the other hand there are other scholars who have pictured the event
>in accordance with the Bible:
>
>2.a) IBN VAD'E' AL-YA'GHOUBEE has narrated the story in accordance with the
>synoptic Gospels.
>2.b) FAYZ KASHANee interprets the entire account by indicating that although
>the physical part of the Jesus was crucified but His spiritual part remained
>unharmed and was not killed."
>
>Comment:
>========
>The above names don't sound familiar. Can you refer to the books they
>had written and where the above mentioned information is provided?
>If you say that these above named persons BELIEVED in the so-called
>crucifixion of Jesus, in contrast to clear verses in the Qur'an, then
>I shall not be surprised if they were not Muslims (an Arabic or Persian
>- sounding name does not necessarily imply that the person is a Muslim).
>But before being judgemental on the issue, we need to know exactly what
>these persons had written. Narrating a story as to what the christians
>believe on the issue does not imply that these persons had BELIEVED that
>Jesus was truly crucified or died (physical and/or spiritual).
>
>
>Babak Mohajerin writes:
>"  Not only the literal interpretation of 4/155
>  finds no support in any other
>part of the Qur'an, but there are clear versus
>indicating the death of everybody
>in general (without exception) and that of Jesus
>in particular, that is Jesus
>also died:
>
>{All the Qur'anic translations are from "The Koran", translated by N.J.
>Dawood, Penguin Books, 1968}
>3.a) The Prophets:[Al' Anbe'ya'] 21/34 (Surah No: 21, Verse No: 34):
>No man before you-[Mohammad]- have we made immortal. If you yourself are
>doomed to die, will they live for ever?
>
>3.b) The Hordes:[Zo-mar] 39/30 (Surah No: 39, Verse No: 30):
>You-[Mohammad] - as well as they are doomed to die.
>
>3.c)The Prophets:[Al' Anbe'ya'] 21/35 & 3/185 & 29/57 :
>Every soul shall taste death
>
>3.d) Mary:[Mar-yam] 19/33:
>I-[Jesus]-was blessed on the day I was born and blessed I shall be on the
>day of my death.
>
>3.e) The Table [Maa'edeh] 5/117:
>.. and ever since You [God] took me [Jesus] to you
>
>3.f) The Imrans [Ala Em-raan] 3/55:
>I [God] am about to cause you [Jesus] to die and lift you up to Me. I shall
>take you away from unbelievers.
>{last verse is quite striking since "ascension" is superseded by "death"}
>
>Comments:
>=========
>You have used Dawood's (an Iraqi Jew) translation. He is not very
>careful about the translation of the Qur'an. I suggest that you read
>translations by Muslim scholars like - Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall,
>Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Thomas Irving (Talim Ali), to clear any doubts
>concerning the so-called crucifixion of Jesus. Dawood DELIBERATELY
>changes the meanings of the Qur'anic verses; the translated verse 3:55
>(your reference 3.f) is a glaring example of such distortion. The proper
>translation is: "I (God) will take thee (Jesus) and raise thee (Jesus)
>to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehood) of those who blaspheme."
>As such, your assertion that "ascension" is superseded by "death" is
>simply wrong. The verse only says that Jesus was raised alive to the
>heaven and that God was going to clear him of all charges of blasphemy
>(which the Christians believe, and Jews accused him of, as per gospel
>accounts) since Jesus never claimed divinity; and this was done through
>the message in the Qur'an which Muhammad (SAWS) brought:
>" And when God saith (namely, on the Day of Judgement): O Jesus, son of
>Maryam| Didst thou say unto mankind: take me and my mother for two gods
>beside God? He saith: (God) be glorified| It was not mine to utter that
>to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knowest it.
>Thou knewest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thine mind.
>Behold| Thou, only Thou art knower of things hidden. I speak unto them
>only that which Thou commandest me (saying): Worship God, my Lord and
>your Lord." (Qur'an 5:116:117)
>
>The verse 19:33 in Surah Maryam does not say that Jesus died, but merely
>that, like some other prophets, both his birth-day and the day of his
>death (a future happening) are (will be) days of blessing (also mark the
>future tense in the second part of the sentence) for him. The other
>verses you cited simply say that all human beings are mortal. Of course,
>we are. And Jesus is also going to taste death when he returns towards
>the end of time, after killing ad-Dajjal, the false Messiah. But that
>event simply has not happened yet.
>
>We don't trust the account in the so-called New Testament about Jesus.
>For us the Qur'an is sufficient, since it is the ONLY heavenly book which
>had retained its textual purity from the very day it was revealed to our
>Prophet, Muhammad (SAWS). No other book can compare with it. As far as
>the books of the New Testament are concerned, even the Biblical scholars
>have ascertained that the entire collection is PSEUDEPIGRAPHIC; none of the
>eye-witnesses to the so-called crucifixion account wrote the gospels;
>the real authors were different than the ascribed names in the NT. As
>such, the christian Biblical account is of NO value to Muslims, we
>reject its authenticity wholesale. Nevertheless, it is worthwhile to
>remind you how hundreds of gospels/epistles were banned by the Pauline/
>Trinitarian church in the early christian era. Thanks to the recent
>discoveries in many places, esp. the Nag Hamadi area in Egypt, which had
>a sizable number of original christians, whose beliefs were quite diffe-
>rent than the present-day christians, e.g., they believed that Jesus was
>substituted on the cross by someone else, and that Jesus did not die
>(Read J. Robinson's The Second Treatise of the Great Seth). Think for a
>moment if these original Christians were in the upper hand as to decid-
>ing what gospels/epistles to be considered canonical and what to be
>considered apocryphal, instead of the Pauline/Trinitarian christians who
>contaminated gospels, it might well have been that the entire NT as it
>stands today would have a different type of contents showing that Jesus
>did not die, nor was he crucified on a cross, but was ascended alive to
>heaven and that he would physically return towards the end of time. In
>that case, you would find no one to question the explicit statements in
>the Quran. Don't tell me that these scrolls found in Nag Hamadi area
>are written by Muslims to prove the Muslim belief. No, the scholars have
>shown that these scrolls date back to the period immediately following
>the ascension of Jesus to heaven, and a few hundred years before the
>birth of Muhammad (SAWS) in Makkah.
>
>A key factor in analyzing the Qur'anic verses is their interpretation
>provided (or explained) by Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) himself. Islam,
>indeed, is a composite of Qur'an and Sunnah. ALL the ahadith of Muhammad
>(SAWS) clearly say that Jesus did not die, nor was crucified, and is
>alive in heaven and will return to kill the false messiah (ad-Dazzal)
>towards the end of time, and that he will rule with authority, and will
>marry and die a natural death and be buried next to the grave of Muhammad
>(SAWS) in Madinah. Read the hadith compilations by Imam Bukhari and Muslim
>and others. There is no disagreement on this matter amongst the Sunnis
>and Shias. The hadith compilation by Imam Malik, al-Muwatta (like other
>sahih hadith books later) report that Muhammad (SAWS) claimed that
>he was the LAST (seal) of the Prophets/Messengers, i.e., after him no
>Prophet (minor or major) will come:
>     "Imam Malik from Malik from ibn-Shihab from Muhammad ibn-Jubayr ibn
>     Mu'tim that Prophet (Muhammad) (SAWS) said: 'I have FIVE names. I
>     am Muhammad. I am Ahmad. I am al-Mahi (the effacer), by whom Allah
>     effaces Kufr. I am al-Hashir (the gatherer), before whom people are
>     gathered. I am al-Aqib (the last)." (Tr. Ayesha Abdur-Rahman
>at-Tarjumana, Diwan Press) As such Bab, Bahaullah, Mirza Golam Ahmed and
>other such claimants for prophethood after the death of Muhammad (SAWS)
>were only apostates that Muhammad (SAWS) truly warned us about. E.G.,
>     Muhammad (SAWS) said, "Verily, thirty imposters will appear in my
>     Ummah and each one of them will claim to be a prophet, though I am
>   the LAST of ALL the Prophets and there will be NO PROPHET AFTER ME"
>(narrated in Abu-Daud, at-Tirmizi, Sahib ibn-Hibban, Fateh-ul-Bari, and
>many others). As such, you can see that the explanation of various
>verses in the Qur'an, e.g., about the finality of Prophethood (Khatam-an
>-Nabi'in) through Muhammad (SAWS):
>    "Muhammad is not the father of any of your man, but (he is) the
>    Messenger of Allah, and the SEAL of Prophets. And Allah has full
>    knowledge of all things." (Qur'an 33:40)
>and Jesus's not being crucified, and raised alive to heaven:
>    "That they said (in boast), 'We killed al-Masih Eesa ibn-Maryam,
>    the messenger of Allah' - But they killed him NOT, NOR crucified
>    him. Only a LIKENESS of that was shown to them. And those who do
>    differ therein are FULL of DOUBTS, with NO (certain) knowledge. But
>    only a CONJECTURE to follow, for of a surety they killed him NOT.
>    Nay, Allah RAISED him up unto Himself; Allah is Exalted in Power,
>    Wise." (Qur'an 4:157-158)
>are explained in detail by the
>very sayings of our Prophet, Muhammad (SAWS). We cannot ignore the sahih
>ahadith of Rasulullah, nor the explicit statements in the Qur'an on any
>matter; when a matter is decided by the Qur'an and Sunnah, the matter is
>CLOSED for any believer, no alternative opinion(s), contrary to these
>established ones, can be accepted. Does the belief in coming of Jesus
>toward the end of time and his being alive in the heaven violate Islamic
>principles? No. When Allah decrees a thing, it happens precisely the way
>He intended it to happen. The God who created our forefather - Adam
>without any parents, was also able to create Jesus without a father,
>was able to create a way for rescuing bani-Israel from Egypt by parting
>the Red Sea, was able to split the moon into two as one of thousands
>of miracles which He bestowed upon His slave - Muhammad (SAWS). The same
>God can definitely rescue Jesus before his crucifixion and also substi-
>tute someone who resembled like Jesus on the cross, and can preserve
>Jesus in the heaven until his final coming to kill ad-Dajjal al-Kazzab.
>Don't forget that Muslims believe that before the coming of Eesa (AWS)
>there will be a state of fitnah stirred by ad-Dajjal. Yet, according
>to sahih Hadith of Rasulullah (as compiled by Bukhari) it shows that
>certain sahaba actually met the Dajjal in a remote island, during the
>time of Muhammad (SAWS), which means that Dajjal is going to live
>through all this period until his final act, before his being killed
>by Eesa (AWS). Allah simply had willed that ad-Dajjal be now hidden
>from our sight; where he is now, no one probably knows. That is God's
>decree. Here is another hadith about Eesa (AWS) and ad-Dajjal that Imam
>Malik reported in al-Muwatta:
>   "Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi from Abdullah ibn-Umar that
>   Rasulullah (SAWS) said, 'I dreamt at one night that I was at al-Ka'ba
>   and I saw a DARK man like the most handsome dark man you have ever
>   seen. He had hair reaching to between his ears and his shoulders like
>   the most excellent of such hair that you have seen. He had combed his
>   hair, and water was dripping from it. He was leaning on two men or on
>   the shoulders of two men doing Tawaf around Ka'ba. I asked: "Who is
>   this?" It was said, "al-Masih ibn-Maryam." Then we were with a man
>   with a wiry hair and blind in his right eye, as if it was a floating
>   grape. I asked, "Who is this?" It was said to me, "This is al-Masih
>   ad-Dajjal." ' " (op. cit.)
>
>During the Isra and Miraj of Rasulullah, Eesa (AWS) met Jesus in one of
>the lower heavens (Ref: Bukhari, Muslim & others). Rasulullah also led
>the prayer of all the Prophets in Masjid al-Aqsa (ibid.). (Probably,
>in fulfillment of the Prophet Haggai's prophecy (Haggai 2:7-9) and
>Malachi's prophecy (Malachi 3:1), and compare to Surah bani-Israel,
>verse 1: "Glorified be He Who carried His servant (Muhammad) by night
>from the Inviolable Place of Worship (Masjid al-Haram in Makkah) to the
>Far Distant Place of Worship (Masjid al-Aqsa in Jerusalem) the neigh-
>borhood whereof We have blessed, that We might show him (Muhammad) of
>Our tokens| Lo| He, only He, is the Hearer, the Seer.") How can one
>explain this miracle pertaining to Muhammad's (SAWS) night journey from
>Makkah to Jerusalem and then to the heavens (where he met important
>Prophets of Allah, e.g., Musa, Adam, Eesa, and others) and his return
>back to Makkah - all happening in a small fraction of time? Simple logic
>cannot explain this and other miracles performed (with permissions from
>Allah) by the Prophets of Allah. Yet, we, Muslims accept the truth about
>these miracles (including Eesa's (AWS) speaking on the cradle, his giving
>life to clay to become live birds, etc.), since God bestowed such and
>such capabilities to His beloved Prophets. Even the Jewish traditions
>mention the fact that Enoch (Idris (AWS)) and Elijah were taken up to
>heaven alive, and Jews are expecting their return before the Doom's
>Day. Does this violate Jewish or Islamic principles? No, just like Eesa's
>(AWS) ascension to heaven, this does not violate Islamic principles.
>
>Some ignorant christian may then question if we, Muslims, accept all
>these miracles performed by the Prophets of Allah, how come we don't
>accept God coming on earth to redeem us? A valid question. But we don't
>accept such a thing ever happening, because it is beyond God's Majesty
>to do a thing like that (including, fathering a child, dying on the
>cross, etc.). None of the prophets of Allah ever mentioned about the
>possibility of such a thing. The Qur'an and the sayings of the Prophet
>Muhammad (SAWS) are explicitly clear about it. On the contrary, we do
>find the human-god theme pervasive in most pagan, polytheistic societies.
>We as such reject all those claimants of godhood or manifestations of
>God on earth, including Bab, Bahaullah and Mirza Golam Ahmed of Qadian.
>All such (re)incarnate-God themes are considered to be Kufr.
>
>(I am aware of a five-part article posted on the SRI on
>Baha'i-views concerning many of these important issues which separate
>them from Muslims. As such, this reply of mine is also directed at some
>of the key concepts that has been brought forth by Kamran Hakim.)
>
>
>Babak Mohajerin writes:
>"  Islamic Traditions also clearly mention the death of Jesus:
>4.a) Book of Ta-ba-ghat from IBNi SA'D Vol 3, from Imam Hassan
>4.b) In Mavaheb Ghas-ta-la-nee Vol 1, P 42 from Mohammad
>4.c) In Commentary of IBN KASEER Vol 2, p 46 from Mohammad
>4.d) In Al-yava-gheet va Al-java-har p 24 from Mohammad "
>
>Comments:
>========
>Of the four you mentioned above, I can only comment on ibn-Katheer
>(I have not read the other three and cannot comment as to what is written
>there. I do, however, strongly suspect that you may be misquoting
>or falsifying the accounts narrated through Muhammad (SAWS) or Imam
>Hassan in those books, you quoted. The well-known accepted books of
>ahadith all very clearly mention that Jesus did not die, and yet you
>suggest that Muhammad (SAWS) himself or his grandson - Imam Hassan (R)
>believed in the death of Jesus. That is ludicrous, full of filthy lies.
>Read the hadith books: Bukhari, Muslim, Abu-Daud, at-Tirmizi, ibn-Maza,
>an-Nisayii, al-Muwatta, and of Ahmad-ibn-Hambal, Bayhaqi, ibn-Habban;
>if you do, you will find that all these ahadith very clearly mention
>that Jesus was not crucified, nor died, and is alive in heaven.). Ibn
>Kathir did not mention that Jesus died. You are misquoting. This is a
>total lie and we object to this. In all his writings, ibn-Katheer never
>wrote anything which suggests that Jesus died. What you said is an
>outright slender. Don't do that to make your points.
>  As I mentioned above, I am not familiar with the other books you cited
>The name of ibn-Saad do ring a bell to me, but I cannot say with all
>certainty if the person you are saying is the same one that I heard of.
>My recollection of one ibn-Saad is like this: He was not a Muslim but a
>Jew who falsified and fabricated hadith of Rasulullah. Muslims never
>trusted him, nor is he their scholar.
>   I reiterate again that all the Muslim scholars believe what Muhammad
>(SAWS) said and brought in the Qur'an, and in these are mentioned that
>Jesus did not die. Any pseudo-scholar who, disguising his true identity,
>writes sounding like Muslims,  yet disagrees with Qur'an and Sunnah, is
>simply not a Muslim. We reject their interpretation of the Qur'an.
>
>Babak Mohajerin writes:
>"                                      Baha'i Faith is the only
>independent religion which acknowledges the divinity of
>Qur'an and that of Islam]
>
>      The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct.
>      The meaning of the Qur'anic version is that the spirit of Christ
>      was not Crucified.  There is no conflict between the two.
>      (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an
>       individual believer, July 14, 1943, quoted in Lights of
>       Guidance, Second edition, p. 491) "
>
>Final Comments:
>==============
>Thanks for such an acknowledgement. Islam, however, comprises of the
>teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah (which includes the sayings and
>practices of Rasulullah). The ahadith are generally the interpretation
>of verses from the Qur'an. In all the books of ahadith, Bukhari, Muslim
>and others, it is very clear that Muhammad is the LAST of the Prophets
>and Rasuls of Allah on earth. It is also clearly stated about Jesus's
>not being crucified and/or died, and that he is alive and will return
>towards the end of time. But as can be seen from the writings of Showqi
>Afendi, Baha'is definitely have a disagreement with Islam, by either
>misinterpreting an explicit verse in the Qur'an and/or totally ignoring
>the ahadith of Rasulullah. If you acknowledge the Qur'an and Islam to be
>divinely guided, then, please, accept what Islam says about the finality
>of prophethood and message of Muhammad (SAWS) and about Jesus's being
>alive (without ever dying before). There is no confusion about it. The
>writers of the canonical gospels of the christian Bible misrepresented
>the incident about crucifixion. The accounts had nothing to do with the
>views of the original disciples of Jesus, for the NT books are nothing
>but pseudepigraphic books, edited, and altered for several centuries to
>justify the creed of Trinity and the associated dogmas concerning origi-
>nal sin, vicarious atonement. Either you accept what the Qur'an says,
>or reject it and believe what NT says. You cannot consider both the Qur'an
>and the NT to be True, while they contradict each other on this issue.
>One of these two have to be retained as containing the inerrant Word of
>God, and the other rejected. We invite you to return to Islam whole-
>heartedly, since you mentioned that Baha'is, like yourself, consider
>the Qur'an to be divinely guided.
>
>----------
>Siddiqui.
>
>