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- Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
- Path: sparky!uunet!news.mentorg.com!scraig
- From: scraig@elipse.mentorg.com (Stuart Craig)
- Subject: Re: Another question....
- Originator: scraig@elipse
- Message-ID: <1992Nov20.001158.21316@news.mentorg.com>
- Sender: scraig@elipse (Stuart Craig)
- Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:11:58 GMT
- References: <BxKMqB.5y3@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> <1992Nov12.151734.13316@cs.rochester.edu> <1992Nov19.021404.22955@en.ecn.purdue.edu> <rjg.722199525@crusher>
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- Organization: Mentor Graphics
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- Followup-To:
- Lines: 86
-
-
- In article <rjg.722199525@crusher>, rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith)
- writes:
- >In <1992Nov19.021404.22955@en.ecn.purdue.edu> lush@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Gregory
- B Lush) writes:
- >>>In article <BxKMqB.5y3@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
- cmparris@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu (Chris Michael Parrish) writes:
- >>>>Well, I have anther question already.... If a thrower makes a toss
- >>>>that results in his hand or arm contacting the stationary limb or body
- >>>>of a marker is it a foul? Also to carry it one step further, what if
- >>>>the thrower attempts to reach around the marker(who is not moving his
- >>>>blocking arm towards the thrower, but instead downward) and the marker
- >>>>hits the hand/arm of the thrower? Is it still a foul even though the
- >>>>thrower moved into the marker "space"?
- >>>
- >
- >[Gregory suggests Basketball type rule]
- >>I really think that is simple.
- >>The problem is that markers, like people taking the charge in basketball,
- >>always think they are stationary.
- >
- >The marker is not supposed to remain stationary. The marker is allowed to
- >move around to cover the offense as the offense pivots. Movement by the marker
- >should maintain the required distance. I find this is best done by limiting
- >my movements to a plane. Even then there are times when a good fake and
- >quick return pivot mean I cannot move back to where I started as the thrower
- >as pivoted into place.
-
- This all sounds good so far.
-
- >By taking up a marking position and extending my arms I claim the space
- >above and below my arms as mine. If contact occurs in this area the
- >thrower is at fault.
-
- Say what? Where did you come up with this "claim the space" idea?
- I've never seen anything in the rules that even remotely suggests that
- this is true for the marker.
-
- >Why:
- > If the thrower moves any part of their body through the space
- > established by the marker (even on a follow through) it is
- > hazardous play and the marker can call a foul. The marker should
- > be able to move into the established space without a collision.
- > The thrower has their own space and a disc width.
-
- How is this hazardous play? In most cases the "collision" caused by
- an attempted throw through this area will be much softer than a
- successful handblock would be. Again I must point out that I don't
- see any basis for your claim on this space. As long as the thrower
- isn't leaning against you or pushing your torso out of the way he has
- just as much right to this space as you do. Especially if he gets
- there first! If he pivots around and reaches under your arm to throw
- and you then hack him on the arm this is most definitely a foul on
- you.
-
- > By establishing a legal marking position the marker is claiming
- > some of the space around the thrower. Once established the
- > marker is entitled to this space and should be able to
- > move their arms up and down and their body laterally
- > without expecting a collision.
- >
- >The marker should not be required to dodge the follow through arm of the
- >thrower. The thrower is required, by the hazardous play rule, not to move
- >into space occupied by the marker.
-
- Why would the marker be required to dodge the follow through? Contact
- after the disc is released is not a foul as far as I know.
-
- >On rereading that I seem to have repeated myself a lot. I hope it is still
- >understandable.
-
- What you are saying here goes directly against accepted practices in
- Ultimate. The ability to "break the mark" by throwing under or over
- the markers arm is important in competitive play. If the marker is
- concerned about preventing such a throw then he or she should probably
- be standing three or more feet back from the thrower so that it's not
- possible to reach under the arm.
-
- Later,
- Stu
-
- --
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