home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
- Path: sparky!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!news.Vanderbilt.Edu!athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu!cctimar
- From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles the clerk)
- Subject: Re: ye is the
- Message-ID: <1992Nov19.183415.26355@news.vanderbilt.edu>
- Sender: news@news.vanderbilt.edu
- Nntp-Posting-Host: athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu
- Organization: Shire of Glaedenfeld
- References: <1992Nov19.163630.18657@ncsu.edu>
- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:34:15 GMT
- Lines: 37
-
- To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!
-
- Xavier writeth, in response to no thing:
- > scadians it is time to wake and smell the coffee the word ye is
- > pronounced the
-
- I don't understand who Xavier intends to explain this to. I have not
- heard anybody mispronounce this word in the SCA in ten years. (I have
- seen this alphabetized as "y" in lists of merchants, but I've never
- asked the merchants whether they pronounce their shops' names
- correctly.) I was of the impression that most of us were already aware
- of this amazing fact. If this really is news to you, please read on -
- I have a few corrections to point out.
-
- In fact, Xavier's statement is misleading. There really is a word "ye"
- which is correctly pronounced "ye."
-
- There were two distinct Middle English words, "ye" and "the." "Ye" is
- the second person plural nominative pronoun, whereas "the" is the
- definite article. "The" was written either with a thorn, an edh, or a
- t-h sequence. Over the course of the fourteenth century, the edh more
- or less vanished, and the thorn survived only in a few common words.
- Moreover, the thorn, as Xavier mentions, started to look more and more
- like a y. With the introduction of printing, the font makers didn't
- bother to cast separate characters for thorn, they just substituted y.
- However, the words "the" and "ye" were usually distinguished by raising
- the e when writeing "the" with y.
-
- Xavier's claim that the thorn was a Norse letter is also misleading.
- While the Norse did use it, the thorn is originally a runic character
- from the futharc, which was used by all the early Germanic languages.
- The character survived in English when the Roman alphabet was
- introduced, since the Roman alphabet had no "th" letter. The fact that
- it also survived in other languages indicates parallel development, not
- borrowing.
- --
- -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
-