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Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!rpi!kollur From: kollur@jec320.its.rpi.edu (Ramana Kolluri) Subject: r.f.c ..on cooking a Turkey(LONG) Message-ID: <z_310xc@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: jec320.its.rpi.edu Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:12:18 GMT Lines: 575 Hi! Last year around this time I posted a request for info on how to go about cooking a turkey for thanksgiving. I got a lot of responses and here's a compilation of all the responses I got. I deleted the headers at that time to save paper while printing it out and so I am sorry I cannot give credit where credit is due here. Once again I thank everyone who offered suggestions. I am sure there are some people out there looking for suggestions and here's what usenet has to offer. If you have any questions about what follows, I will be glad to respond but my experience is limited to one turkey and you may be better off addressing your questions to the more knowledgeable people on r.f.c. Happy Thanksgiving! Ramana kollur@rpi.edu LIST OF RESPONSES __________________________________________________________________________ Hmmm.... you might get a lot of different answers to this query. There's more than one way to skin a turkey as they say.... Here's one: First.... don't thaw that bird! Buy a fresh one if you can. If you must buy a frozen turkey, a large one (>15 lbs.) may take a full day or more to thaw. Overnight outside the fridge is at least needed for a small one. Novice Note: Inside the turkey are giblets and neck. Don't forget to take them out! Next.... ya gotta stuff that bird. You can buy some packaged or prefab stuffing if you're lazy and like bad stuffing.... or you can make it youself. Stuffing: This is not exactly a recipe, but more of a philosophy. Take that packet of giblets and neck and simmer them covered for about an hour in about 2 qts. of water with a Tbs. of salt, pepper to taste, and a fistfull of chopped parsley. Meanwhile, breakup a couple or three large loafs of bread in a huge bowl. Now some people might use Wonder bread or the Wonder-like bread they sell as "stuffing bread", but don't do that. Use a loaf of nice quality bread that you would normally eat in a sandwich. Be creative. You can mix a loaf of oatmeal with white. Or raisin, or just about anything. Just don't use that bad bread. Next.... cook up some sausage meat.... that kind that comes in a roll. Ah.... go ahead use the whole package. Cook it, but don't burn it. Dump the fat. Add a bunch of butter. Maybe a couple of sticks.(this isn't a low cholesterol affair) After the butter melts, add a couple of large chopped onions and a half a head of chopped clery. Saute until soft and then add to the bread. Dump in about 2 Tbsp. Bell's Stuffing seasoning.... or more to taste. Please ignore any instructions on the box. Slowly add liquid from the giblet stock until you reach the desired consistancy. Some people think wetter is better! Variations: Skip the celery and add an equivalent amount of chopped apples and/or raisins. Or.... skip the celery and add about 1 Lb. sliced mushrooms. Or leave the celery and add the mushrooms anyway. Or carrots. Or raisins and carrots. Try one this year and maybe try a variation next year. If all the stuffing you have doesn't fit in the bird, put the excess in a small casserole and put it in the oven about an hour before the turkey is done. Add some of the juice from the turkey pan. Half cup or so for say, stuffing in a meatloaf size pan. Make sure you wash the turkey inside and out. Wash all surfaces and utensils that the turkey or juice may have touched. We watch for Sal Monella. Some people salt the inside of the turkey for some strange reason. "Draws out the juices!" they say. Nah! Next.... put about 1 Tbsp. (tsp. for small turkey) of Gravy Master in a small dish with about three or four times as much vegetable oil. Rub the Turkey all over with this mixture. Now.... the Gravy Master doesn't mix with the oil so you have to dig a little to get some on your hands. You rub this into the skin in a kind of erotic massage of said turkey. The bird should get a little brown all over. Get it all.... inside the wings.... underneath.... have a ball. OK. Stuff the turkey. Don't overpack it, as the stuffing will expand a little during cooking. Stuff both the neck and body cavity. Next, you have to close up the stuffed cavities. Some turkeys come with little metal attachments that secure the legs in place. If you didn't get the deluxe model, then thick string will do. Ties the legs together, trapping the stuffing in the body cavity. Use small pins or even finish nails (yes!) to stitch the flap of loose skin securely over the neck cavity, fastening the skin to the underside of the turkey. Oh yeah.... preheat the oven to 500 f. Put the turkey in a roasting pan.... not a pie plate or cookie sheet. You'll have a big mess on your hands, and besides, we have to make gravy. Put the turkey in the oven uncovered and immediately put the temp down to 325 f. Cook for 20 minutes per pound. At around 60% of the cooking time, look at that bird. The skin should be well browned and a bit crispy on the top. At this time (and might also be a good time to put that extra stuffing in the oven), make an aluminum foil tent over the turkey. Try to do it so that the foil doesn't touch the bird, and allow small openings at the front and back. Cook to exquisite completion. You can use a meat thermometer, or some turkeys have those "pops-up-when-done" devices. You can use these too. Anyway, you should watch to avoid overcooking and dryness. Take the turkey out of the oven and put on a large plate for carving and/or serving. This can be tricky and sometimes takes two people. Believe it or not, clean coat hangers bent to loop around the underside work well. Cover the top of the turkey with that foil you used for the tent. You shoudn't carve the bird for twenty or thirty minutes after removing it from the oven. Meanwhile, we can make gravy. GRAVY! Spoon off most of the fat from the pan. Not all.... leave a little. Don't worry about turkey that may have stuck, or stuffing that may have dropped out or overflowed. It's all part of the individuality of this particular turkey. Put the roasting pan on a burner (or two) on top of the stove. This is sometimes a problem because on Thanksgiving we're cooking so many things. Make low heat. Add about 2 Tbsp. of that Gravy Master stuff and about 1 Qt. of that giblet liquid left from the stuffing mix. If you didn't have enough liquid, don't fuss, just add more water. Stir around while scraping all the good stuff from the bottom of the pan and breaking up the turkey meat and stuffing that may be around to enhance our wonderful gravy. Add a bunch of salt and pepper to taste. Don't go so light on the salt. Mix about 1/3 cup of flour with an equal part water until blended in a seperate cup. Add slowly to the gravy while stirring like a maniac to avoid lumps. Roughly this is it. Taste it. You may want a little more Gravy Master or salt and pepper. If too runny, repeat the flour exercise, adding a little at a time until your gravy is how you like it. If you don't have enough, just add more of everything. A little white wine in there doesn't hurt the taste either. You can also add the liquid from cooked vegetables. Whew ! ! ! ! I can't believe I wrote that> By the way.... you do have a knife that can slice paper right? You don't have a razor sharp large knife? How are are you going to cut that bird into beautiful pieces? Yeah.... it's a lot of work. But remember.... there's that 3-5 hours while the turkey is cooking to do all that other stuff you have to do. Plan well, and it's not so bad. There's a lot of satisfaction in accomplishing a T-Day dinner for guests. Enjoy ! Happy Thanksgiving ! ! ! _______________________________________________________________________ (1) Make sure the turkey is fully thawed before cooking it. (Usually 2 days in the refrigerator). Take it out of the refrigerator the morning of. Be aware that Salmonella is quite common with poultry; you want to give it no opportunity to grow. (2) It's usually suggested that you cook it unstuffed; stuffing is baked alongside. This is again, for safety reasons. (It is quite safe to cook a stuffed bird, but you must be careful. It is also a bit more difficult, since the heat must penetrate the stuffing without overcooking the rest of the bird). (3) You probably want to rub salt & pepper on the turkey before cooking. Sage goes quite well with it, as does thyme. (Again, rub & put into basting liquid). Even though I'll bake the stuffing alongside, I'll throw a few vegetables inside the cavity (just for aroma: Onions & celery). You may also want to butter, margarine, or oil the skin. If you want to get ultra-fancy, insert some fresh sage leaves under the skin. (4) I'd suggest preheating the oven to 375 or 400, putting in the bird face down, and lowering the temperature to final baking temperature (I believe 325 or so). I think it's 10-15 minutes/pound, unstuffed. If you want to be sure, poke an instant-read meat thermometer into the thigh. After 15 to 30 minutes of cooking, turn the bird over. Baste periodically with its own juices; you may want to protect the breast/wings with foil until the last hour of cooking. (5) Bake it on a rack. __________________________________________________________________________ Hi, I have had great luck using the Reynolds bags available in the grocery store. They sell turkey sized bags that come with approximate cooking times and recipes. I generally place the turkey on several ribs of celery to hold it out of the fat, and throw in potatoes, carrots and onions to be cooked in the drippings. You can salt and pepper the turkey and drizzle butter over it if you like. You can buy turkeys with pop-up timers that let you know when it is done, or you can stick a meat thermometer in the thigh and when it reaches a certain temperature (170 F, I believe) the turkey is done. Good luck, it is really simple if you use the bags, and the turkey is never dry! ______________________________________________________________________ Usually the turkey will come with complete instructions from the producer. But just in case yours does not. . . It is best to thaw the turkey in the refrigerator. A ten pounder will take between one and two days to thaw in the fridge. Be sure to remove the giblets and neck. Check both the chest cavity and the neck pouch (which is usually still covered with the skin). These can be used for making the gravy. I often make a broth by simmering the neck and giblet in about two cups of water. (Save the heart and liver for later. Some people add these to the gravy or stuffing at the last minute.) Many Americans stuff the bird (both the chest cavity and the pouch) and bake. Some typical stuffings might be bread and herb stuffing, cornbread stuffing, or fruit and nut stuffing. Or you could simply place some aromatics in the cavity to 'perfume' the bird. These might include chunks of onions, celery and carrots and herbs such as sage, thyme, marjoram, and oregano. Bake in a 325 degree oven. If the legs and breast skin are browning too fast, cover those areas loosely with foil. An unstuffed 10 lb. turkey will take about 3 hours. A stuffed 10 lb. turkey will take about 3 1/2 hours. If you use a meat thermometer, breast temperature would be about 170 degrees. If you stuff the bird, remove the stuffing to a serving bowl before carving. If you're making gravy, drain the cooking pan juices into a large cup or bowl. Separate the fat from the juices. In a small saucepan over lowish heat make a roux of cornstarch and butter, a couple tablespoons of each. Slowly add the pan juices while whisking. Slowly add some broth or water until the gravy is the thickness or thinness you like. Have a great Thanksgiving and holiday season! _____________________________________________________________________ For the best guide I can think of, get ahold of a copy of the Joy of Cooking, you can probably borrow it from your local library and read the section on roasting a bird. As for thawing, from what I understand it takes a day per 10lbs to completely thaw in the refrigerator. Most people don't spice their birds. Maybe a little salt and pepper inside the cavity. I would bake the stuffing out of the bird, it's a little easier. Let the turkey sit for 20 minutes or so before carving. Hope this helps some, and good luck with it. Thanksgiving dinner can be a lot of fun. _____________________________________________________________________ If you buy a commerical brand frozen bird, there should be basic cooking directions on the wrapping (Honeysuckle White has the directions) - just remember not to cut through the directions when extracting the bird! Tips (gained from 20 years helping my mom, 1 time completely on my own): 1. On Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, get the turkey out of the freezer/refrigerator, place in cold water for about 12 hours and let it thaw. Even if you keep that bird in the fridge for a week, it won't thaw completely. 2. I recommend Honeysuckle White brand, because they insert a metal "rack" thingy so that you don't have to worry about tying up the turkeys legs with string. The rack thing does make it harder to get the stuffing in and out, but a lot of people don't make stuffing in the bird anymore anyways. They also have pop timers that come out when the turkey's done (no temperature probes needed). 3. I like to make a mixture of oil, salt, and pepper and rub it on the skin before baking. I'm a skin freak - between my dad and myself, we'll have the sucker skinned in a little under 15 minutes, once it's out of the oven. The proportions are roughly 1 cup oil to 3 or 4 tablespoons of salt and pepper (I just dump until it looks good). My next-cube neighbor here at work tried using honey and she said it made fantastic gravy. There are cooking bags from Reynolds that you can use that seal up and remove the need for basting (although I don't use them - I like to baste!) 4. Cover the bird with foil until about an hour before it's supposed to be done so that it doesn't brown too soon. 5. The most important: Cook the bird at 25 degress LESS than the package suggests. It will take longer, but the meat will be juicier. 6. If you're having company, buy Heinz home-style gravy in the supermarket. I know that it seems like cheating, but gravy is sometimes tricky to make. I'm not always successful myself. If you want to attempt it, strain the juices that collect in the bottom of the pan to get the solid gunk out, then add flour and cook until thick. Add flour a single tablespoon at a time so that you don't go overboard right away. I'm getting soooo hungry! -- __________________________________________________________________________ Hi, I saw your request for turkey recipes and here's what I would recommend: Rub the skin with fresh garlic (ground up) and other herbs and spices (like rosemary, thyme, lemon peel, pepper etc.). Rub the body cavity as well with spices and herbs. Stuff the cavity with a stuffing mixture (I like bread, raw eggs, walnuts and the same spices as I used on the turkey and lightly fried onions). Cook the turkey at 275 degrees farenheit for about 3 hours and then check it to see if it's done. Cover the pan and turkey with an aluminum foil "tent", to hold the juices in, by the way. If it's not done cook it for another half hour and check it again. At the end of the cooking, just before the turkey is done, brush the skin with vegetable oil and turn the temperature up to 400 degrees farenheit, in order to brown the skin. Cook for 10 or 15 minutes at this temperature, or just until the skin is brown. The reason I suggest doing it this way is that I've tried the conventional recipes (cooking at 350-375 degrees farenheit) and the turkey comes out dry. My mother has used this method of slow cooking at lower temperature for longer periods and the turkey came out tender and succulent. Sorry about the imprecision of the amounts and the times, but that's the way I cook. Have fun. _____________________________________________________________________ Do what I do. Buy Butterball turkey. It is little expansive compared to other turkeys, but it's worth it. I didn't have to do anything I simpliy washed and suffed and put it in the oven and that was it Butterball turkey comes with instructions and they also have 1-800 number you can call. Enjoy _____________________________________________________________________ There's probably gonna be a billion posts about this, but... Okay, here's how I do turkey. And it works every time. I just managed to cook three for a party, and they all came out great. Buying: I recommend Butterball turkeys. Not the deep-basted ones (although they're okay), but the regular ones. Sometimes off-brands don't taste as good (I'm not sure why, either). Empire kosher turkeys are real good, too, but really expensive ($1.99/lb vs. $1.19). Look around at the different supermarkets for sales. I managed to find Buterballs on sale for $0.69/lb. Thawing: thaw in refrigerator for one or two days. The turkey doesn't have to be absolutely completely thawed, but you need to be able to get the packet(s) of giblets out. Thawing at room temperature is not recommended, but in a pinch it can be done, if your house isn't too warm. If you do this, be sure not to leave it out too long... no more than 24 hours. By no means should you try to defrost the turkey using warm/hot water. The problem is that turkeys can carry salmonella, and leaving it slightly warm and exposes to air for a while can incubate the salmonella and ruin everyone's thanksgiving. Preparation: wash the turkey very well with COLD water. This is also to help with bacteria and stuff. You'd hate to see how the stuff is processed before it gets to the market. Place the turkey on its back in a roasting pan, either the foil kind or a real one with a lid (I just bought some real ones for about $10 each). You can stuff it if you want -- the stuffing will absorb some of the turkey juice, and taste REAL good (see Stuffing below). Then (this is the important part) take a stick of butter (it helps if it's a little soft), and smear it all over the turkey. This will help seal in the juices and brown the skin. It's sorta hard to smear it on well, but I do the best I can, and then pat down the butter in a layer on top so it will melt all over the bird. Then I throw a stick of butter inside with the stuffing. I pour some sherry (dry cocktail) over and water over the turkey. The sherry is optional, but you need to get a little liquid in the pan to keep the turkey moist. Maybe about half-an-inch of liquid. If you want you can put some seasonings on the turkey -- salt, garlic, onion, rosemary, basil, etc., but they're not necessary. I think turkey tastes just great by itself. Put on lid, or cover with foil, and make a TIGHT seal. This is real important, too. You need to keep moisture sealed in to keep the turkey from drying out. Cook: at 375 F, for about 4 to 4-1/2 hours. The meat should be practically falling from the bone when it's done. And the turkey will be nicely browned. The way I test is pull on one of the legs, it should almost pull off with no effort. If you get the pan sealed up really good, you don't have to worry about overcooking -- it will just get more tender. If you are not sure if it's done, give it an extra half hour or so. I cooked 14 lb. turkeys about 5 to 5-1/2 hours and they were great. Stuffing: There are a billion recipes for stuffing, so I'll let you deal with that yourself (and I'm sure there are lots of other people on the net who would love to give you their recipe). You can stuff both the main body cavity, and the neck. You may want to sew closed the neck cavity and/or the main body to keep the stuffing inside. You can use an ordinary needle and thread for this, but make sure it's COTTON thread, not a synthetic which might melt in the oven. Storage: If you decide to put the turkey in the fridge overnite before serving, that's okay. But remove the stuffing first. Apparently there can be some danger of bacteria stuff because the stuffing takes longer to cool or something. It's just one of those rules I've heard since childhood. ____________________________________________________________________________ Here's most of a Thanksgiving dinner at our house. This includes the Broccoli-soup-onion casserole someone else wanted. Title: Hot Mulled Cider Servings: 8 8 c Apple cider/juice 1/2 c Packed brown sugar 1 ea Ground nutmeg 6 ea Inches stick cinnamon 1 t Whole allspice 1 t Whole cloves 8 ea Thin orange wedges/slices 8 ea Whole cloves In a large saucepan combine apple cider/juice, brown sugar, and nutmeg. for spice bag, place cinnamon, allspice, and the 1 teaspoon cloves in cheesecloth and tie; add to cider mixture. Bring to boiling. Reduce heat; cover and simmer 10 minutes. Remove spice bag and discard. Serve cider in mugs with a clove-studded orange wedge in each. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Sweet Potato Pie Servings: 8 3 ea large sweet potatoes 2 ea Eggs, separated 1/4 t nutmeg 1/4 t salt 2 T brown sugar 1 ea Prepared pie crust 2 T powdered sugar Boil sweet potatoes until tender. Peel and mash. Preheat oven to 300 degrees. Beat in egg yolks, nutmeg, salt, and brown sugar, then stir until potatoes are creamy. Spoon sweet potatoes into pie crust and bake for 25 minutes, until crust is golden. Cool. Beat egg whites with powdered sugar until stiff. Spread meringue over top of pie, and bake at 300 degrees until meringue is lightly browned. Serve hot. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Libby's Famous Pumpkin Pie Servings: 8 2 ea Eggs, slightly beaten 1 cn Pumpkin (16-oz) 3/4 c Sugar 1/2 t Salt 1 t Cinnamon 1/2 t Ginger 1/4 t Cloves 1 1/2 c Canned milk 1 ea Pie crust, 9" Preheat oven to 425. Combine filling ingredients in order given; pour into pie shell. Bake 15 minutes. Reduce temperature to 350. Bake an additional 45 minutes, or until knife inserted near center comes out clean. Cool; garnish with whipped topping if desired. (from Carnation Evaporated Milk can) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Nibbles (Chex mix) Servings: 8 5 c Dry Cereal (any "good" kind) 2 c Pretzel Sticks 1 c Peanuts or other Nuts 1/3 c Margarine 4 t Worcestershire Sauce 1 t Celery Flakes 1 t Onion powder 1/2 t Garlic powder Break pretzel sticks in half. Compbine dry cereals (Cheerios, Chex, Crispix) to make 5 cups and add broken pretzel sticks. In a saucepan, melt margarine and combine with Worcestershire sauce and seasonings. Toss with the cereals and add peanuts. Place in a shallow roasting pan. Bake at 275 degrees for 1 hour, stirring every 10 minutes. makes 8 cups. appox. calories per cup: 320 AMERICAN HEART ASSOC. COOKBOOK ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Sweet Potatoes and Apples Servings: 5 2 c Sweet Potatoes * 2 x Apples, peeled 1/2 c Brown Sugar 4 T Butter 1/2 t Salt * boiled and skinned Preheat oven to 350 deg F. Slice cooked potatoes and apples 1/4"- 1/2" thick. Place half of each in buttered baking dish. Sprinkle with half the sugar, salt, and dot with half the butter. Repeat. Cover and bake 40 minutes. Variations: Add 1/2 cup chopped nuts and/or tablespoon of grated orange rind. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Roast Turkey Servings: 1 1 ea Turkey (1 lb per person) 1 x Onions, Celery PREPARATION FOR ROASTING: Rinse bird and pat dray with paper toweling. Remove bag of organs and discard. Rub inside of cavities with salt if desired. Do not stuff the bird until just before cooking (if it is to be stuffed. I don't.) To STUFF BIRD, spoon some of the stuffing loosely into the neck cavity; pull the neck skin to the back of the bird and fasten securely with a small skewer. Lightly spoon remaining stuffing into the body cavity. If the opening has a band of skin across the tail, tuck the drumsticks under the bank; if the band of skin is not present, tie legs securely to the tail. Twist wing tips under back. For an UNSTUFFED BIRD, place quartered onions and celery in the body cavity, if desired. Prepare and roast. Discard vegetables after roasting bird, if desired. (The onions taste good though.) ROASTING DIRECTIONS: Place bird, breast-side up, on a rack in a shallow roasting pan. Brush skin of bird, except duckling and goose, with cooking oil (or spray with Pam). If a meat thermometer is used, insert it in the center of the inside thigh muscle, making sure the bulb does not touch bone. Cover the bird loosely with foil. Press lightly over the drumsticks and neck; leave an air space between bird and foil. When the bird is 2/3's done, cut the band or string between the legs so thighs will cook evenly. Baste bird occasionally; if desired. Uncover the last 45 minutes of cooking. Continue roasting until bird is done. Remove bird from oven and recover loosely with foil to keep warm. Let stand 15 minutes before carving. TEST FOR DONENESS: The meat thermometer inserted in the thigh should register 185 degrees. Also the thickest part of the drumstick should feel very soft when pressed between the fingers. The drumstick also should move up and down and twist easily in the socket. Remember, each bird differs in size, shape or variety. Because of these differences, roasting times can be only approximate. (The book doesn't give directions on turkeys with red pop-up timers, so read the package.) # OF POUNDS.....TEMP......HOURS.........CHICKEN 1-1/2 to 2.......400......1 to 1-1/4 2-1/2 to 3.......375......1-1/4 to 1-1/2 3-1/2 to 4.......375......1-3/4 to 2 4-1/2 to 4.......375......2-1/4 to 2-1/2 # OF POUNDS.....TEMP......HOURS.........TURKEY 7 to 9..........450.......2-1/4 to 2-1/2 10 to 13........450.......2-3/4 to 3 14 to 17........450.......3 to 3-1/4 18 to 21........450.......3-1/4 to 3-1/2 22 to 24........450.......3-1/4 to 3-3/4 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Title: Classic Broccoli Bake Servings: 6 1 cn Cream of Broccoli soup 1/2 c Milk 1 t Soy Sauce 1 ds Pepper 20 oz Frozen Broccoli 1 cn French Fried Onions (Durkee) 1. In a 1-1/2 qt. casserole, combine soup, milk, soy sauce and pepper. Add broccoli and 1/2 onions. 2. Coventional Oven: Bake 350 degrees. for 25 minutes or until hot and bubbling; stir. Top with remaining onions. Bake 5 minutes more. 2. Microwave Oven: Cover with lid; microwave on HIGH for 7 minutes or until hot and bubbling; stirring halfway through heating. Top with remaining onions. Microwave, uncovered for 1 minute more. Recipe may be doubled easily. Variation: Cook with green beans and Cream of Mushroom soup. CAMBELL'S SOUP ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
