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- Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!jsue
- From: jsue@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Jeffrey L. Sue)
- Subject: Re: DEC Support?
- References: <1992Nov18.054500.2450@csrd.uiuc.edu> <1992Nov19.121523.8216@brt.deakin.edu.au> <DGRAY.92Nov18233610@menudo.uh.edu>
- Message-ID: <1992Nov19.142451.26005@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
- Originator: jsue@troon.ncsa.uiuc.edu
- Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
- Organization: The Dow Chemical Company
- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:24:51 GMT
- Lines: 78
-
- In article <DGRAY.92Nov18233610@menudo.uh.edu> DGray@uh.edu writes:
- >In article <1992Nov19.121523.8216@brt.deakin.edu.au> dougcc@brt.deakin.edu.au (Douglas Miller) writes:
- >
- > >DEC "support" will not even talk to you unless you have one of their
- > >outrageously priced service contracts.
- >
- > More "outrageous prices" --- care to justify these assertions?
- >
- >Okay, How many manufacturers are getting $10,000 for a 1.3 gig drive?
- >How about $2000 for a single hard drive controller? $8,000 for a 351
- >meg drive? (I would point out that an 8 meg RAM card costs $8,000,
- >but I understand SGI has even higher prices than that.) These are
- >what I call outrageous prices.
- >
-
- Are we talking SCSI drive prices? If not, then the comparison is invalid.
-
- DEC's SDI technology was an extremely good strategy for allowing new
- technology to be introduced without requiring changes to user programs
- (unlike another three-letter vendor we all know). Yes, they did charge
- quite a hefty price for SDI peripherals. There wasn't really that much
- of a reliable alternate vendor for us to turn to (SI was definitely *not*
- reliable at that time). However, as soon as a reliable vendor did come
- up (in our case, MTI), with peripherals that worked and were supportable,
- DEC quickly brought their prices down to match the competition. We've been
- paying much less than $10,000 per GB for some time now.
-
- As for DEC's SCSI-disk prices:
-
- In my June 1992 price list, DEC's price for a 1.38 GB RZ58 was more in
- the $5,000 range. Yes, this was still outrageous, but not nearly as
- crazy-sounding as the $10,000 price quoted above; also, DEC has taken
- steps to get "better" prices by making that same disk $2,975 (list) as
- of Nov 2nd. $3,000 may still be a bit higher than some other SCSI
- disks, but it is definitely not outrageous. My feeling is that if my
- local DEC sales people can get within 10-15% of a known, respectable
- vendor (ie., not just two people working out of a garage), then I can
- justify that extra percentage by them having *local* sales people who
- are nearby and fairly easy to contact. In our case, the local DEC
- sales office is very dependable... your mileage may vary.
-
- > If you think any vendor nowadays has any margin left on hardware sales that
- > they can use to subsidise other parts of their business, then you have been
- > asleep for the last five years.
- >
- >Never mind that other vendors *ARE* doing this. On site service is
- >another matter, but I can't think of another company who will not halp
- >you out with a problem on the phone.
- >
-
- As for their support organization... well this is hit-and-miss. I have
- been very successful with some of the sofware support people. Other times
- it has failed dismally. However, I think this has improved much in the
- past year or so.
-
- Hardware support is more difficult to gage for me. We just don't call
- for hardware support all that often. Don't get me wrong, this is
- *good*! But service during problems is definitely a necessity as well.
- Do you get what you pay for? This is a long-term answer. Sometimes you're
- bound to get a dud. As for cost: well, if you buy "standard" price - which
- includes a warranty - you pay $400-700 extra. If not, you get what you
- pay for. Many of the smaller companies do not have as large a support
- staff nor as large of an install-base. They can afford to provide that
- kind of service because of this. I'm definitely *not* knocking them. This
- is what America is all about. I believe that the small business person is
- filling a great need and we'd be a *lot* better off without them.
-
- I do know that the 24-hour return policy of most of these smaller
- companies will not fit into all of our business situations. Some
- (workstations) may be able to survive with this kind of "maintenance".
- Other systems are too critical. We gage our purchases based on this
- criticality.
-
- Jeff
- --
- -----
- Jeff Sue
- - All opinions are mine - (and you can't have any, nya nya nya)
-