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- Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!messina
- From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
- Subject: Re: Coherent - the ultimate BBS in itself?
- Message-ID: <1992Nov23.201836.15162@netcom.com>
- Organization: Messina Software
- References: <58HkuB1w165w@micromed.com> <921122214@rwsys.wimsey.bc.ca>
- Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:18:36 GMT
- Lines: 145
-
-
- First of all, thanks for the excellent points made in the two articles
- below and a great feedback I got through email. Now to the articles:
-
- root@rwsys.wimsey.bc.ca (Superuser)
- >system@micromed.com (Duane Davis) writes:
- >> messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
- >>> [argues that Coherent in itself is an excellent BBS platform]
- >>
- >> Although the Coherent (or any unix) environment is much more power-
- >> full and flexible that a DOS BBS, it also takes alot longer to learn.
- >> Most BBS users are used to simple to use DOS BBS' and don't want to
- >> have to "learn" how to use something new. With as many simple BBS'
- >> available why should they hassle with it?
-
- Hm. That may be, but explain why a BBS from which I am posting now
- has (at least to my estimates) the highest number of users of any
- single BBS in Silicon Valley? It is shell based, SUN OS 4.1.3. Yes,
- it does provide Internet access, email and news, but the point is, the
- complexity of the interface is not a sufficient detriment (to me it's
- easier than many annoying menu-based system, but that aside). I
- believe it is possible to address different group of people
- ("socializers" - as they're called later on) using command line with
- slightly customized prompts, commands and help files. It does require
- some modifications to the system as installed, but that I take for
- granted, as I stated in the original posts when I mentioned ksh
- functions and simple programs intended to make the BBS user's life a
- little easier.
-
- >> How are you going to handle ANSI color, or IBM extended keyboard
- >> characters, or users that are using terminals that aren't 80x25.
-
- I don't think I will. At least it would be a low priority for me. I
- always turned those options (color and so on) off immediately after
- logging on to the BBS since I found them slow and annoying.
-
- >> You also take a chance of creating a security hole. With a BBS
- >> program your user is "locked" into a program. Suppose you make
- >> a mistake and assign the wrong permissions to a file, or a user
- >> not understanding permissions creates a file and someone else
- >> deletes it.
-
- That is of course an error on the part of the Sysop and not the OS.
- It is possible to "lock" the user into the shell as you desire. It
- requires some ingenuity, but I believe it can be done.
-
- >> The whole idea of writing a menu based BBS program is to make it
- >> easy to use. The faster a user can login, do what they need to do,
- >> and logoff, the better. If you make it too difficult they will call
- >> elsewhere.
-
- Menu file should be accessible, no doubt about it. It is, however,
- incredibly slow having to go through menu display any time you do
- anything. And it is terribly annoying not being able to give *a*
- command from one prompt, but having instead to jump through various
- menu levels to reach that command.
-
- >> I've been running a BBS for almost 10 years now (7 years running a
- >> DOS BBS) so I pretty much know what users like. If I were to run
- >> something like you suggest I would loose at least 90% of my users.
-
- You certainly have a great advantage of experience over me, and I am
- taking your advice seriously.
-
- > I agree with Duane. So does the literature on running a BBS. In
- > fact, the profile of a typical BBS'er doesn't reflect the kind of
- > person who likes to master computing power. It appears that the largest
- > group of BBS users are socializers rather than computer whizes.
-
- I would repeat what I said about netcom. It doesn't seem that the
- complexity alone is a sufficient detriment if the benefit is clear.
-
- > multi-user enviornemnt is superior for those who wish socialize.
- > The most sucessful of the BBS's in my town runs picnics, sells tee
- > shirts and has a number of on-line real time conferences. They run
- > over thirty phone lines on a single 486.
-
- Do you know what the underlying OS is?
-
- > While coherent offers the abilty for users to 'who' or 'write' each
- > other, it doesn't offer real time coferences where users can 'meet'
- > each other.
-
- Interesting point. I think it should be possible with some little
- trickery, but I will first try it and then will mouth off.
-
- > This isn't to say that a BBS should have only social stuff. Many people
- > are first attracted to BBS's because of the downloads.. then they
- > discover news, then mail... And even the long time BBS 'customer' who
- > can't find a particular file here, will look elsewhere. Coherent
- > doesn't offer an 'out-of-box' download library or downloads manager.
-
- These are interesting points partly because they are so foreign to me
- as a BBS user (and not a Sysop). I never looked for files on BBSs and
- couldn't care less if the BBS had any at all. The best BBSs I found
- were either "social" in nature, or programmer's BBSs with programming
- challenges and projects. The only files that were posted and
- available for download were sources for the project or challenge.
-
- > Your BBS'er probably isn't going to demand access to yacc or the
- > compiler or any of the many fine tools that coherent offers. The
- > editors are probably too complex and they will probably never
- > ask to nroff a file.
-
- I don't think I would even offer access to it because of the system
- resources that would be tied up. There are BBS specializing in that,
- and they would be a better place for that.
-
- > In both of these cases a good menu interface is vital. The 'power-user'
- > will need to be able cut through to his/her commands without a bunch
- > of screens, but even they rarely need more than a few hundred commands
- > to choose from. The BBS I've been coding offers each user up to 900
- > different commands that the sysop can 'hand-pick' so as to prevent
- > damage as well as to give the user the command syntax in an off-the
- > shelf sort of way.
-
- I see no contradiction here. The Coherent system can be set up
- exactly that way - to limit access to unnecessary executables and
- to provide needed services.
-
- > You can certainly offer 'shell' accounts to trusted BBS'ers, even as
- > an option on their menu. But most users panic at the $ prompt and have
- > no idea what is there.
-
- I don't see the need for offering $ prompt on the BBS. The prompt can
- be modified to displayed useful information. Again, shell can be
- restricted.
-
- > There ARE computer oriented BBS users, but this
- > is a tiny niche in the vastness, and for them.. (or should I say us)
- > they would probably perfere to own their own coherent and perhaps
- > run their own BBS.
-
- Yes, and I do not think I would be catering to those in terms of
- providing them with a platform for experimenting with Coherent. As I
- said originally, Coherent would be a platform for a BBS, whatever the
- BBS's nature would be. It doesn't necessarily imply that it would be
- an open shell.
-
- > Your Truly,
- > Randy Wright
-
- Thanks for all your great input.
-
- t.
-