NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #27/NN_1992_27.iso/spool/alt/politics/clinton/17714

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From: [e-mail] (Marciano Pitargue)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.perot,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: A Means To Help Keep Change In Check
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.clinton
Date: 24 Nov 1992 03:47:23 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail](Bruce Henderson) writes:
|> ]In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
|> (Allen R. Willson) writes:
|> ]>the sale of weapons such as the Russian-made AK-47 which comes with
|> ]>accessories like a 70 round clip may be limited.  This type of weapon
|> ]>is not meant for hunting, unless you're hunting elephants or bears,
|> ]>both of which are endangered species.
|>
|> Exactly.

a hunting gun of today is a direct descendant of the military guns
of yesteryear.  i gather you don't hunt.  if you do, you would not
be saying this.  if the gun is "enough" for the game, it doesn't
matter if it's a self loader or a black powder rifle.

|> As someone who has trained professionally with the M16A1 / A2 weapon, I can say
|> that they are really designed for one thing.  Killing people.  The only reason

see attached article.

|> I have one is specifically that.  To kill people if it is ever required.  There
|> is a good side to having an armed population.  Just because things are comfy
|> now doesn't mean they will always be that way.  I have never ever wanted to
|> shoot people. And I have even less desire to shoot animals.   But say something
|> like the LA riots happened in your neighborhood.  Or even better yet, in your
|> elderly parents neighborhood, and you really needed to defend agains the
|> houligans in the street.  I'd much rather have something that I am comfortable
|> with, and that I have had hours of saftey classes on.  I was dissapointed in
|> California's ban on assault weapons.  I know for sure that the criminal element
|> that wants these items has no problem obtaining them, but now I do.  Once agian
|> the only reason I would want one is because I know almost nothing about other
|> firearms, but I have spent years with the USMC training with this peice, and it
|> is probably the one weapon that I would be safest using.
|>
|> The main problem with guns and gun control is not the millions of responisble,
|> regestered owners and memebers of the NRA, it is the ciminals and the insane
|> who manage to purchase weapons.
|>
|> I hope the Uncle Bill puts some effort behind a nation-wide law enforcement
|> network of computers.  So that any gun store owner can check a person out at
|> time of sale.
|>
|> Bruce

Article: 31728 of talk.politics.guns
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From: [e-mail] (Larry Cipriani)
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Stockton, the Facts by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, MD
Keywords: stockton, purdy, AK-47, wound ballistics
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Date: 22 Jun 92 20:29:42 GMT
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     STOCKTON -- THE FACTS  by Martin L. Fackler, MD

     Madman shoots 35 in Stockton schoolyard; 30 of those hit survive.  That
would have been the appropriate headline.  Why did the media dwell almost
exclusively on the five that did not survive?
     A military type AK-47 rifle was used.  Full-metal-jacketed military type
bullets were used.  That 86% of those children recovered from their wounds comes
as no surprise to those who understand this particular bullet's wounding
potential
.  Those familiar with the international laws governing warfare
recognize that the military full-metal-jacketed bullet is specifically designed
to limit tissue disruption -- to wound rather than to kill.  Purportedly
mandated for "humanitarian" reasons by the Hague Peace Conference of 1899, this
type of bullet actually proves to be more effective for most warfare.  It
removes not only the one hit from the ranks of the combatants, but also those
needed to care for him.
     Full-metal-jacketed bullets
 are prohibited for hunting; they are too likely
to wound rather than kill.  Most full-metal-jacketed AK-47 bullets do not deform
significantly on striking the body, unless they strike bone.  They
characteristically travel point-forward until they penetrate 9 to 10 inches of
tissue (if a bullet yaws, turning sideways during its tissue path, it causes
increased disruption).  This means that most AK-47 shots will pass through the
body causing no greater damage that produced by handgun bullets.  The limi
ted
tissue disruption produced by this weapon in the Stockton schoolyard is
consistent with well documented data from Vietnam (the Wound Data and Munitions
Effectiveness Team collected approximately 700 cases of AK-47 hits), as well as
with controlled research studies from various wound ballistics laboratories.
     To put the 17 January 1989 Stockton incident in context, it must be
compared with past shootings:
1.   Only four of the eleven shot at the ESL Co. in Sunnyvale, CA, on 16
February 1988,
survived.  The weapon was a 12 gauge shotgun.
2.   Only eleven of the thirty-two shot in the MacDonalds (24 July 1984, San
Ysidro, CA) survived.  Of the three weapons used, the deadliest weapon by far
was a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun.
     The overwhelming majority of the media coverage of the Stockton shooting
has consisted of misstatements, exaggerations and inappropriate comparisons.
     It is ironic, in this country where firearms have played such a prominent
historic role, that the general kn
owledge of weapon effects has become so
distorted.  Cinema and TV accounts of shootings constantly distort and
exaggerate bullet effect.  When shot, people do not get knocked backwards by the
bullet; nor do they become instantly incapacitated, as usually depicted.
     False expectations resulting from these misleading performances have
confused crime scene investigators, law enforcement and military trainers, and
our courts of law.  Exaggerations of weapon effects in the post Vietnam era even
affect
ed wound treatment adversely.  It is just within the past year, that these
errors in military treatment doctrine have been corrected ("Emergency War
Surgery - NATO Handbook", Washington, DC, GPO, 1988).






















    Television accounts showing assault rifles exploding watermelons, newspaper
descriptions comparing their effects to "a grenade exploding in the abdomen,"
and describing organs being destroyed and bones pulverized by apparently magic
"shock waves" from these "high-velocity" bullets must cause the t
hinking
individual to ask: If these rifles really cause such effects, how is it possible
that thirty children (actually 29 children and one teacher) hit in that Stockton
schoolyard survived?
     The effects of the media frenzy have been to produce at least a four-fold
increase in the number of AK-47's in California.  This immense demand has drawn
stocks of these weapons from all over the USA and abroad.  If producers of these
weapons had advertised their effects as portrayed by the media, they would
 be
liable to prosecution under our truth in advertising laws.  When the same
misinformation is presented by the "free press" it is apparently perfectly
legal.
     These are the facts.  Why have you not seen them in the reports of this
incident?  Ask the media.  Ask them also about accountability and
responsibility.  Corrections have been offered, in writing, to the "New York
Times", the "San Francisco Examiner", and the "Oakland Tribune", with no
response.  Phone conversations with media sources m
ade clear their preference
for the more dramatic misconceptions and exaggerations over verified scientific
facts.
     Everyone with a political axe to grind that can be even remotely related to
the Stockton schoolyard shooting is coming out of the woodwork for their share
of the free publicity ride on the media-produced emotional frenzy roller-
coaster.  It's really sad, if not downright disrespectful, to see the deaths of
those children used to produce the lynch-mob/three-ring-circus atmosphere ext
ant
recently in the California State Legislature.
     The lack of any comprehensive data on gunshot wounds (incidence related to
weapon type, bullet type, outcome, etc.) has long been a serious handicap in
considering how to approach the gun problem.  The situation has now been
compounded by unprecedented media zeal.  Zeal mixed with misinformation is a
prescription for disaster.  The exaggerations used to whip up their emotional
frenzy have, at the same time, deprived the public of the established
facts
about weapon effects.
     Gunshot wounds pose a serious problem.  Any sensible solution demands sober
consideration of valid data on wound frequency, severity, circumstances, and
treatment.  Considering the many thousands of shootings in our urban areas each
year, competent collection of these data on a national basis could, in a short
time, define the problem realistically and objectively.  Both sides of the gun
control argument should replace confrontation with cooperation by jointly
sponso
ring a National Gunshot Wound Study.  Valid, objective data might then
replace uninformed exaggeration and hysteria as a guide to action.
     The assault rifle fiasco brings to light a far more basic problem:  Who is
to protect the public from a zealous media whose "cause" takes them beyond bias
to falsehood and fabrication?







FACTS                                            Martin L. Fackler, MD, FACS

1.   Military full-metal-jacketed bullets, such as those used on the Stockton
schoolyard, are des
igned to limit tissue disruption -- to wound rather than
kill.  In warfare, this bullet is effective: it removes not only those hit from
the ranks of the combatants, but also others needed to care for them.  These
bullets are prohibited for hunting because they lack killing power.  Bullet
type, not weapon type, is the critical factor in determining the amount of body
tissue disrupted.

2.   Most full-metal-jacketed AK-47 bullets do not deform unless they strike
bone.  They travel point-forward throu
gh 9 to 10 inches of tissue before they
yaw (turn sideways, and strike more tissue).  Thus, these bullets generally
cause no greater damage than handgun bullets.  The results from the Stockton
schoolyard (35 hit, 30 survivors) are consistent with data from Vietnam (700
cases of AK-47 hits were studied in detail), as well as with studies from wound
ballistics laboratories.

3.   To put the 17 January 1989 Stockton shooting in context:

          A.   Only four of the eleven shot by Richard Farley at
 the ESL Co. in
               Sunnyvale, CA, on 16 February 1988, survived.  The weapon was a
               12 gauge shotgun.

          B.   Only seven of the twenty-one shot by Christian Dornier on 12 July
               1989, in Luxiol, France, survived.  The weapon was a 12 gauge
               shotgun.

          C.   Twelve of the twenty shot by Joseph Wesbecker on 14 September
          1989, in Louisville, KY, survived.  The weapon was an AK-47 rifle
               (which he had boug
ht in May or June 1989).

          D.   Thirty of the thirty-five shot by Patrick Purdy in Stockton
               survived.  The weapon was an AK-47 rifle.

               SHOTGUN -- 33% survived
               RIFLE   -- 76% survived

4.   The overwhelming majority of the Stockton shooting media coverage has
consisted of misstatements and exaggerations.  Television reports showing
assault rifles exploding watermelons, newspaper descriptions comparing their
effects to "a grenade exploding in th
e abdomen", and describing organs being
destroyed and bones pulverized by apparently magic "shock waves" from these
"high-velocity" bullets must cause the thinking individual to ask:  if these
rifles cause such effects, how is it possible that 30 out of the 35 hit on the
Stockton schoolyard survived?







5.  The result of the media created frenzy, in California, has been more than a
four-fold increase the number of AK-47s, AR-15s, etc. despite the tripling of
their price.

6.   Good sense demands that
 any action be supported by historical precedent.

     "No matter how one approaches the figures, one is forced to the rather
     startling conclusion that the use of firearms in crime was very much less
     when there were no controls of any sort... Half a century of strict
     controls on pistols has ended, perversely, with a far greater use of this
     class of weapon in crime than ever before."
     Greenwood, C. "firearms Control", London, Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1972
     p.243.

     N
ot only have the many thousands of gun laws in the USA failed to have the
desired effect, they have been counterproductive.

7.   Near total noncompliance has resulted from "assault rifle" laws passed in
California.  Recent reports from Denver also indicate massive noncompliance.
Our law enforcement judicial system can ill afford the weakening resulting from
such wholesale noncompliance.

8.   The first step in any rational approach is defining a problem's magnitude
and scope.  Is the total number
 of deaths caused by firearms (the often cited
30,000 per year), including suicides (over one-half of the total), felons killed
while committing a crime, terrorist hostage takers killed by police, killings in
self-defense, hunting accidents, etc. an appropriate focus?  Or are we primarily
interested in the criminal use of firearms?  Whatever the scope decided upon,
both sides must confine their figures to it alone in order to avoid the
distortions and inconsistencies ("comparing apples and oranges") t
hat have been
conspicuous in previous "gun" debates.

9.   Lack of any comprehensive, reliable data on gunshot wounds (incidence
related to weapon type, bullet type, treatment, outcome, etc.) is a serious
handicap.  Media distortions have created an emotional frenzy and, at the same
time, deprived the public of the established facts about bullet effects.
Sensible problem solving requires sober consideration of valid data.  Competent
collection of data from urban shootings could define the problem r
ealistically
and objectively.  Instead of wasting millions of dollars fighting each other,
both sides of the gun control dispute should jointly sponsor an ongoing National
Gunshot Wound Study.  Valid, objective data might then replace uninformed
exaggeration, bias, and hysteria as a guide to action.











WOUNDING EFFECTS OF THE AK-47 RIFLE USED BY PATRICK PURDY IN THE STOCKTON
SCHOOLYARD SHOOTING OF 17 JANUARY 1989
by Fackler, M.L., Malinowski, J. A., Hoxie, S.W., Jason, A.


         ABSTRACT

The limited disruption produced in tissue simulant by the rifle and bullets used

in the Stockton schoolyard shooting is entirely consistent with the autopsy

reports of the five children who died from their wounds.  It is also entirely

consistent with well documented battlefield studies and with previous tissue

simulant studies from many laboratories  It is inconsistent with many

exaggerated accounts of "assault rifle" wounding effects described by the media

in the
aftermath of this incident.  This information should be documented for

the historical record.  However, the critical reason for correcting the

misconceptions produced by the media reaction to this incident is to prevent

injurious distortion of gunshot wound treatment.




KEY WORDS -- wound ballistics, military rifle bullets, assault rifle, ballistic

injury, wound treatment.
























Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 2

     On 17 January 1989 Patrick Purdy used a semi-automatic AK-47 Chines
e

military type rifle (Norinco, serial #MS010963) to fire 104 shots into a

schoolyard filled with children in Stockton, California.  All of the bullets

that he fired were 124 grain full-metal-jacketed military type loaded in 7.62 X

39 mm cartridges, made by the Federal Cartridge Company, Anoka, Minnesota

(documented in the Stockton Criminalistics Laboratory by identification of the

empty cartridge cases recovered from the crime scene).  Thirty-five of the

individuals in the school
yard were injured by Purdy's bullets.  Thirty of the

thirty-five wounded were treated in eight hospitals and survived their wounds.

Five died on the schoolyard.

     The media seized on the Stockton incident with sensationalistic zeal.

Distortions, exaggerations and uninformed assumptions were presented as fact.

Corrections of factual errors were, in most cases, ignored.  The public and

medical personnel called upon to treat shooting victims have consequently been

deprived
of the established facts about the true effects of "assault rifles".

These failings have made this paper necessary.  For any chance of a rational

solution, the gunshot wound problem must be approached with verified facts and

competently collected data.


















Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle --3


                                     METHODS

     Eight shots were fired from a distance of 3 meters into 25X25X50 cm blocks

of 10% ordnance gelatin placed end to end at 4 degrees C gelatin tempera
ture.

This gelatin has been shown to reproduce the projectile deformation and

penetration depth seen in living animal muscle (1).  Sufficient gelatin blocks
were placed end-to-end to capture the entire projectile path.  The rifle was

fired from a fixed rest.  Five shots were fired using the Federal 124 grain

full-metal-jacketed ammunition found in Purdy's possession.  This was identical

to the ammunition shot on the Stockton schoolyard.  One shot each was also fired

using a Winchest
er-Western full-metal-jacketed bullet, a full-metal-jacketed

bullet of Chinese manufacture (Norinco), and a Winchester-Western 123 grain

soft-point bullet.  All of these bullet types were found in Purdy's possession.

Velocity was recorded and tissue disruption measured as described in the wound

profile methodology (1).

     Autopsy reports on the five children who died of their wounds were

reviewed, and hospitals were the survivors were treated were contacted for

follow-up informa
tion.




















Wounding effects -- AK-47 -- 4

                                     RESULTS

     Numerical results of the shots are listed in Table 1.  Figure one shows the

five Federal full-metal-jacketed bullets recovered from the gelatin blocks.  The

last bullet on the right is listed as number five in Table 1.  It passed out the

side of the gelatin block (at 66 cm penetration depth) and struck the wall of

the shooting range.  These Federal bullets have a copper jacket and a lead co
re;

they all deformed slightly in the gelatin (bases flattened to approximately 5 X

9.5 mm -- see Fig. 1).  The bases of these Federal full-metal-jacketed bullets

were unusual; they had a conical depression about 4 mm deep in the lead core.  A

similar depression has been seen in only one bullet previously shot in our

laboratory -- the 7.62 X 54 R, used in Russian and Chinese light machine guns

and sniper rifles.  The Winchester-Western full-metal-jacketed bullet (No. 7,

Table 1) per
formed identically to the Federal bullets.  The Norinco full-metal-

jacketed bullet did not deform at all, as expected, because its largely steel

core is much more resistant to compression than lead, as shown second from the

left in Figure two.

     The maximum temporary cavity diameters estimated from the radial cracks in

the gelatin (1) were all between 14 and 16 cm in diameter, and their location

was at a penetration depth 6 - 12 cm deep to the location where the bullet yaw

began
 (see Fig. 3).














Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 5

     The Winchester-Western soft-point bullet deformed by flattening its tip and


expanding its diameter to 15 X 16.5 mm.  It also lost 22 percent of its weight

through bullet fragmentation (see lower right, Figure two), and its temporary

cavity began after only a few cm of penetration, where bullet expansion

occurred.

     Summary of autopsy findings:

1.   In each child the bullet path passed through a vital structure.  In one


case it was the head, another the heart, another the liver, another the lungs,

and the last, the aorta and spinal cord.

2.   On two occasions a second shot was reported to have passed through a hand,

and in one case, through a foot.  In one of the hand perforations, it is

unequivocal that it was a second shot rather than the same shot perforating two

body parts.  In this case, the bullet had passed through the sternum, the heart,

and then through a vertebral body; the bullet was fou
nd just under the skin of

the back.  This was the only bullet retained in the body on any of the

autopsies.

3.   The weights of the children were 20, 18, 26, 19, and 25 kg.

4.   The largest tissue disruption in any of the organs was approximately 3.81

cm, in the right lobe of the liver.

5.   There was no damage to any organ not hit directly by a bullet.














Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 6

                                   DISCUSSION

     All of the full-metal-jacketed bullet
s followed the basic pattern described

previously (2) and shown in the wound profile (Fig. 3).  The Federal full-

metal-jacketed bullets used by Purdy are of flat base design and shorter in

length than the military rounds (compare Figs 1 and 2).  Their mean penetration

distance before significant yaw (13.7 cm) is considerably shorter than that of

the Ak-47 military round as shown on the wound profile (25 cm) and that seen in

shot number 7 (20 cm).

     That 86% of the wounded survived
 is not surprising to those who are

familiar with the relatively mild wounding characteristics of the Ak-47 military

round (3).  The Russian/Chinese military full-metal-jacketed AK-47 bullets, with

steel cores, do not deform on striking the body, unless they hit bone.  These

AK-47 bullets characteristically travel point-forward until they penetrate 25 cm

of tissue.  Only when this type bullet yaws, turning sideways during its tissue

path, does it cause significantly increased disruption
(Fig. 3).  Therefore,

many AK-47 shots will pass through the body causing no greater damage than that

produced by nonexpanding handgun bullets.  The limited tissue disruption

produced by this weapon in the Stockton schoolyard is consistent with well

documented data from Vietnam (the Wound Data and Munitions Effectiveness Team

collected approximately 700 cases of Ak-47 hits), as well as with controlled














Wounding effects -- AK-47 Rifle -- 7

research studies from wound ballistics labora
tories (2-4).

     Our study shows the Federal full-metal-jacketed bullets used by Purdy yaw

(increase the angle between the bullet long axis and the bullet path) at a

shallower penetration depth than the standard Russian/Chinese military

ammunition.  Ordinarily, this action should make these bullets more disruptive.

However, the children shot were small (18-26 kg), obviously increasing the

chances for a bullet to pass through the body before yawing to a significant

degree, and un
doubtedly contributing to the high survival rate.  The slight

flattening seen in the lead-core Federal bullets does not add significantly to

the wound size.  The magnitude of the tissue disruption reported from the fatal

shots inflicted by the AK-47 bullets fired by Purdy was, in fact, no greater

than that produced by many common handgun bullets.

     Much of the media  coverage generated by the Stockton shooting has

contained misstatements and exaggerations.  The myth of "shock waves"
 resounding

from these "high velocity" bullets "pulverizing bones and exploding organs"

(even if they were not hit by the bullet) "like a bomb" going off in the body

was repeated by the media, in certain cases even after they were furnished solid

evidence disproving these absurdities (5).  None of the autopsies showed damage

beyond the projectile path.  One "expert" was quoted as stating that the death

rate from "assault weapons ... approaches 50 percent" (6).  Another, reporting

on
 the effects of "high speed" bullets, stated "Most of those hit in an











Wounding effects -- AK-47 -- 8

extremity will end up with amputations.  If you're hit in the trunk, it becomes

a lethal injury ..." (7).  On the Stockton schoolyard, the death rate was 14

percent and none died later; none required extremity amputation.  Extensive war

wound experience (Wound Data and Munitions Effectiveness Team information on

1400 cases of rifle wounds from the Vietnam conflict) and laboratory studies


with the AK-47 are consistent with the Stockton injuries (2-4).  The first

author of this paper has treated many nonlethal trunk wounds from a variety of

"assault rifles".  In his experience, extremity wounds from these weapons

requiring amputation are extremely rare.  The "assault rifle" shoots a bullet

that is intermediate in power between the regular infantry rifle and a handgun.

Trunk wounds are lethal when they hit vital structures, as supported by the

autopsy findings from
Stockton.

     Pertinent to the material reviewed for this paper, the Chief of Police of

the City of San Jose, Joseph D. McNamara, stated, "One bullet hitting a child in

Stockton, took out his entire stomach." (8).  Our review of the autopsy reports

shows that only one of the children killed by Mr. Purdy in the Stockton

schoolyard had damage to the stomach.  It states, "STOMACH: There is a

perforating wound of the antrum due to passage of the bullet.  The stomach is

otherwise normal
.  There is no spillage of gastric contents."  An unsuspecting

public and medical community might accept Chief McNamara's highly exaggerated

description as fact.












Wounding effect -- AK-47 Rifle -- 9

     The exaggerated assault rifle effects presented by the media have had the

pernicious effect of causing an unprecedented demand for "assault rifles".

Estimates from sales figures indicate that the number of these weapons in

California has greatly increased since the Stockton shooting
--
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or [e-mail]
"It's been hard to argue against such great visuals"  Legislative
Director Jeff Muchnick, National Coalition to Ban Handguns on the LA riots.