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- Newsgroups: talk.rape
- Path: sparky!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!lynx.unm.edu!synth
- From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
- Subject: Re: More on fantasies and discussing one or two (was) Re: Rape in any form ...
- Message-ID: <SYNTH.92Jul29195010@deepthought.unm.edu>
- Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 02:50:10 GMT
- Organization: SynthMedia Productions Ltd.: The Danes Call It Quality
- In-Reply-To: lazlo@triton.unm.edu's message of Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:18:11 GMT
- References: <SYNTH.92Jul28195418@deepthought.unm.edu> <rcnm3#_@lynx.unm.edu>
- <SYNTH.92Jul29115142@deepthought.unm.edu> <t5nmkv=@lynx.unm.edu>
- Lines: 77
-
- [ WARNING: This post contains some descriptions that may be of a
- sensitive nature to some of the readership. Please hit 'n' now. ]
-
- lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
-
- > Within the date-rape mentality, they many times don't *realize* that
- > it's rape they're contemplating, why would they say it openly? To them
- > it's just an image of sex they're thinking of; of taking the girl,
- > ripping off all her clothes, and getting their rocks off inside her.
-
- Laz> How do you *know* that?
-
- How do you think? This is what they themselves described. You think I
- would just conjure this out of nowhere? From where do you derive such
- assumptions? (And by the way, up above is your first example. Here's
- another: "God would I love to shove my DICK in her mouth --" -- this
- in regard to someone they barely know. Now tell me: do you honestly
- think there is nothing in the above that suggests dominance or force?)
-
- Laz> Again, you're generalizing: first by assuming that the people you're
- Laz> talking about have the "date-rape mentality"
-
- Based on other things they say that reveal a sexist, disrespectful
- attitude toward women, they follow the same patterns as men who
- have date-raped. It's not a pre-conceived assumption.
-
- > If it's a visualization of sex either with protest from the woman or with
- > the woman being oblivious to any act taking place, it's a rape fantasy.
-
- Laz> So which of these two possible situations are you using as the
- Laz> primary foundation for your opinion? The times when you were
- Laz> presented with someone else's outright rape fantasy, or the times
- Laz> when you heard a fantasy but didn't hear anything about consent
- Laz> and therefore decided to *interpret* it as a rape fantasy?
-
- Are you saying that if you drug someone's drink, render them unconscious,
- and have sex with them, thus sidestepping consent, it's not rape? And
- similarly, if you have a desire to fuck someone, and you have an image
- of a limp, lifeless receptacle for sex -- not an image of a mutual
- sexual *encounter* -- then that's not also an image of rape?
-
- I agree that simply hearing of someone expressing a desire to have sex with
- someone, without explicitly describing whether or not that person consents,
- cannot be construed to be a rape fantasy. If I thought this I'd be
- shouting "rape fantasy" at every man and woman on the face of the earth!
-
- > Now show me where in *this* thread I ever said my contention was true of
- > all men, or even a majority sample of the male race.
-
- Laz> In <SYNTH.92Jul27130810@deepthought.unm.edu>:
- > Based on personal experience and observation ... I've seen that most men
- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
- If this is the source of the confusion, I apologize: I never meant to suggest
- that these are the facts for describing a majority sample of the male race.
- My choice of the word "most" was inappropriate in that it can suggest this.
- Hopefully you didn't gloss over the other point I made in relation:
-
- >From: synth@deepthought.unm.edu (Synth F. Oberheim)
- >I have my sample, and form my own opinions based on them.
- ^^^^^^
- If this didn't clue you in to the fact that I did not pretend to know
- all or even most [sic] men as a whole, then again I apologize.
-
- But again, I have, in my (limited) experiences and dealings, noticed a
- trend. What conclusions I draw from them, though, are not intended to be
- presented as an omniscient generalization. I suppose I give you too much
- credit, but I would think that this would be obvious to anyone reading ...
- especially since I blatantly stated as much when I said that I "do not
- expect you or anyone else to subscribe to these opinions unless you too
- have made similar observations, repeatedly, throughout the years."
-
-
- ===============================================================================
- :: :: :: :: :: Synth F. synth@deepthought.unm.edu U S E N E T
- :: :: :: :: :: :: :: Oberheim synth@yenta.alb.nm.us in color!
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- "Bula vinaka, beachside!"
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