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- Newsgroups: talk.rape
- Path: sparky!uunet!gatech!concert!samba!tenney
- From: tenney@med.unc.edu (Charles R. Tenney)
- Subject: Re: Rape in any form ...
- Message-ID: <1992Jul24.030010.11481@samba.oit.unc.edu>
- Sender: usenet@samba.oit.unc.edu
- Nntp-Posting-Host: addor.med.unc.edu
- Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
- References: <1992Jul23.175429.11674@brtph560.bnr.ca>
- Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:00:10 GMT
- Lines: 129
-
- In article <1992Jul23.175429.11674@brtph560.bnr.ca> kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
- >Rape is rape is rape. It is an absolute.
-
- Yup. Although the law (rightly) recognizes different degrees, aggrevating
- circumstances, etc.
-
- >To fantasize about rape is always
- >the prelude to the act. Do you actually believe that men (or women) who
- >commit rape do not fantasize about it first. If so then you're stupid. And
- >as far as the "medical experts" opinion goes, *SO WHAT*!
-
- No new comments here. It's all been said already, both ways.
-
- >It doesn't change
- >the fact that rapists are non-human pieces of sewer scum and should be executed
- >publically.
-
- Emotionally satisfying as that might be, it doesn't seem practical.
- Giving a rapist "nothing more to lose" would be an incentive for
- eliminating the only witness, so probably more rapes would end in murder.
-
- >It doesn't change the fact that anyone who fantasizes about rape
- >is a potential rapist and should get help before it's too late.
-
- If the stats posted have any meaning whatsoever, this would mean that the
- vast majority of people need help. And if "help" means straightening out
- misconceptions, through counseling, education, etc. I'm willing to accept that
- as true. (the distinction can seem a little blurry sometimes--if you travel to
- high schools and give lectures/lead discussions about date rape, sexual abuse,
- etc. is this "counseling" or "education?" Whatever you call it, it's a good
- idea.) The distribution throughout society of this sort of information is
- improving, but we still have a long way to go. Otherwise, this newsgroup (to
- name an example) would be superfluous.
-
- It seems that the type of fantasy, the frequency of the fantasy, and the
- intensity of the fantasy are cues to whether it's harmless or not. Anyone
- who fantasizes about rape most of the time, who gets a distinct and heady
- pleasure out of the fantasy, who doesn't feel truly alive unless they are
- fantasizing about raping somebody, had better get help before this fantasy
- ruins more than one life.
-
- >"Medical
- >expert" with regard to the human psyche is an oxymoron anyway. How can a
- >person be an expert on something nobody fully understands ????
-
- Any type of academic research (and most other types of research, too) is
- conducted by experts who don't fully understand what they're studying. If
- they did, they wouldn't need to do the research. The above statement
- seems an honest expression of feeling, but logically, it is so flat as to
- be meaningless.
-
- >And as for
- >nobody condoning rape I concede that you are technically right. I mean I don't
- >remember anything like: "Hey I think rape is fine. Let's all go out and
- >force someone to have sex with us!"
-
- No, but further back, people have come closer than I'm comfortable with.
- Before the present flaming discussions began, there was the "Take Back the
- Dildo" post, an offensive, sickening rant defending some of the most
- dangerous misconceptions about rape. Worse than anything that's come up
- in the "Rape Films List" era. May seem hard to believe for newer readers,
- but it's true. The only reason that I didn't flame the guy back to the
- stone age (actually, a local trip in this case) was that by the time I got
- to it, the other regulars had picked it apart so well that there were no
- good targets left.
-
- >But I have seen people suggest that
- >viewing rape scenes on film is just peachy!
-
- Not for you, I'm sure. And, it's easy to see why you'ld be upset at the
- idea that other would watch them. Like other parts of your posts, it
- brings up other ideas. (For example, one's opinion on the death penalty
- for rapists is heavily influenced by one's opinion on the death penalty in
- general.) Plato, in the _Republic_, advocated heavy censorship of all
- art forms due to their influence on public morals. I prefer to counter
- bad information with good information. So, if people watch a movie that
- treats rape lightly, or seems to, they may get reinforcement of
- misconceptions from that (i.e. believing that rape is not "serious.") the
- more rape victims tell their stories, the more information is spread about
- the serious harm done by rape, then the more we can counteract the
- misconceptions.
-
-
- >And others who view rapists as
- >poor little innocent people who are just deeply disturbed. Gimme a break!
-
- They are deeply disturbed, and many (not all) are victims of abuse. When
- they commit a rape, they cease to be innocent. I find no contradiction in
- the fact that I could (say, as a juror) pity somebody at the same time
- that I convicted them, and thus condemned them to a long prison sentance,
- or even death. (For all you legal eagles out there, in NC the jury
- votes on whether to impose the death penalty).
-
- >I neglected to mention people who fantasize about being raped. All I can say
- >here is that I feel confident that if such a person could add to that fantasy
- >the physical, emotional, and spiritual trauma suffered by a true rape victim,
- >the 'fun' would go out of the experience pretty quick.
-
- It's been made clear, through the flamage (congrats to DC and Erica for
- keeping the information flowing through the disagreements, BTW) that these
- fantasies specicifically do NOT include the damaging aspects.
-
- Of course, there is another kind of fantasy of being raped, in which one
- imagines what one would do if such-and-such happened. After all, fantasy
- is the way we deal with hypotheticals, so if the hypothetical becomes
- real, we aren't blindsided, but have some idea how we want to deal with
- it. DC's homosexual rape fantasies have involved murdering the rapist.
- (And I don't think that makes him a real murder threat.)
-
- BTW, for those who wonder, I don't tend to indulge in rape fantasies.
- I can only recall one within the last decade. It was a sick and twisted one
- that started with a murder, and ended with my own suicide, not one I had any
- intention of fulfilling. If you think I needed counseling, I can only say
- that it wouldn't have hurt, but doesn't seem to have been necessary. Before
- that, the most recent ones I can remember were nebulous ones in my early
- teens, before I understood what rape really was. Rape fantasies make me
- ill. But I have my own reasons for this, and those don't apply to anybody
- but me.
-
- >Got anymore comments bright boy (girl) ?
- >
- >KimmyD
-
-
- --
- --
- Charles R. Tenney tenney@med.unc.edu | What would the UNC school of
- | Medicine want with my opinions?
- "My karma ran over my dogma." | What would I want with theirs?
-