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- Newsgroups: talk.abortion
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- From: nuge@newport.med.ge.com (James A. Nugent)
- Subject: Re: Bible says abortion is murder? WHERE?
- In-Reply-To: tanj@catnip.berkeley.ca.us's message of 22 Jul 92 16:47:27 GMT
- Message-ID: <NUGE.92Jul24114732@newport.med.ge.com>
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- References: <1992Jul17.211240.27882@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
- <1992Jul18.192704.2347@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
- <1992Jul18.224034.23029@ncsu.edu>
- <1992Jul20.001531.1356@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> <5628@catnip.berkeley.ca.us>
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- Date: 24 Jul 92 16:47:32 GMT
-
- In article <5628@catnip.berkeley.ca.us> tanj@catnip.berkeley.ca.us
- (Ren and Stimpy's Love Child) writes:
-
- > Now, as far as I know, the only biblical reference to it is Exodus 21:22
- > (I think it's that-- I just moved and my bible is still packed) where the
- > penalty for causing a woman to miscarry is monetary compensation. Doesn't
- > sound like murder to me.
-
- It appears that they considered the unborn as "property." Of course
- to get to verse 22 you had to notice this (verse 21):
-
- "If, however, [a man strikes his male or female slave witha rod and]
- the slave survives for a day or two [before dying] he is not to be
- punished, since the slave is his own property."
-
- I think (hope) our standards of morality and "property" have evolved
- beyond the Code of the Covenant in Exodus. What do you think?
-
- > My friend kept on saying, "The Church says... the Church says..."
-
- Yup. Early Church teaching, the Didache Apostolicae (Teachings of
- the Apostles, ~ 100 AD) says:
-
- "You shall not kill the fetus by abortion, or destroy the infant
- already born."
-
- > but that shouldn't play for fundamentalists. Where's the biblical
- > precedent?
-
- Got me. I don't consider myself a fundamentalist.
-
-
- > Oft times John leaping in Elizabeth's womb is cited,
-
- "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leapt within
- her womb." Luke 1:41
-
- As any t.a. reader knows, 'baby' has to be a sloppy tranaslation!
- It should be 'unborn-it-thingy.' :-)
-
-
- > but even the Church claimed personhood only at quickening for
- > centuries.
-
- They still said abortion was wrong. See above.
-
-
- > And "Before I formed thee in the womb I knew thee" is an argument
- > for personhood *before* conception, which most pro-lifers would
- > disavow (I hope!)
-
- This doesn't seem to refer to human or bodily form (which would have
- to be _after_ "I formed thee"), but to a another entitiy, i.e. a
- spirit, or even an _idea_ in God's mind.
-
- --
- Jim Nugent
-
- nuge@med.ge.com
-
- nugentj@med.ge.com
-