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- From: smithc@mari.acc.stolaf.edu (Christopher A. Smith)
- Subject: Re: Bad F-line instruction?
- Message-ID: <1992Jul23.031705.27880@news.stolaf.edu>
- Sender: news@news.stolaf.edu
- Organization: St. Olaf College, Northfield (aka Cow Country), MN USA
- References: <wingo-210792100047@zardoz.apple.com> <1992Jul22.034951.21764@news.stolaf.edu> <wingo-220792110232@zardoz.apple.com>
- Distribution: na
- Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:17:05 GMT
- Lines: 108
-
- In article <wingo-220792110232@zardoz.apple.com> wingo@apple.com (Tony Wingo) writes:
- >In article <1992Jul22.034951.21764@news.stolaf.edu>,
- >smithc@lars.acc.stolaf.edu (Christopher A. Smith) wrote:
- >
- >> Tony, let me tell you about my experiences with this Bad F-Line
- >> instruction, just in case my previous posting from about a month ago
- >> has scrolled off...
- >>
- >> [Long description of problems with F-Line errors deleted]
- >>
- >>
- >> How can a program become corrupted, especially more than once a day,
- >> under different circumstances (different or no INITs or applications)?
- >
- >Without being there I can't answer this directly. One of the weaknesses of
- >the Mac OS is that memory protection is not built into it, thus allowing an
- >errant piece of code to do all kinds of random things. (No flames please --
- >this was a decision made almost a decade ago, and while in retrospect it
- >might have been made differently, we have to live with it for a bit).
- >
- >While I can sympathize with your frustration, keep in mind that what you
- >are seeing is not a system problem. I routinely work on four different
- >machines (two IIfx, a IIx and a PB 140) running 7.0.1 and 7.1 beta. My
- >buddy in the next cube has even more machines including a Quadra 700.
- >Since we do software development our machines are always a little flaky,
- >and neither one of us sees many F-line problems at all. There is something
- >about your particular configuration that is causing problems.
- >Unfortunately, without being there (fat chance: I grew up in DC, and I
- >wouldn't go back in July or August if my life depended on it :-) ) there is
- >not much else I can tell you. Sometimes these things can only be found
- >with an intense mixture of TMON and strong black coffee.
- >
- >However, a couple of things to look at.
- >1. Are you absolutely sure that the system is installed correctly for the
- >particular machine? If you try to run a IIx system on a Classic, all bets
- >are off. If you are not sure, drag the system, finder and all the apple
- >cdevs and extensions to the trash, then carefully use the installer to
- >re-install the system - never do a system install by dragging the system
- >files from one machine to another: Always use the installer.
- >
- >2. Are all of the applications and extensions you are running up to date?
- >Some older versions of software had problems with some aspects of system 7.
- > In addition, some older versions didn't get along with 68030's. There are
- >still a bunch that don't like 040's.
- >
- >3. If this is not your own machine, make sure it only has one system
- >folder. (use the Find command to make sure there isn't a second one buried
- >somewhere). I once ran into a machine that had 13 distinct system folders
- >on it.
- >
- >4. Do these problems occur primarily on one machine. If so, what is
- >different between that machine and machines that don't exhibit the problem.
- >
- >5. Install MacsBug or TMON. The F-Line failure will trap into the
- >Debuegger, and if A5 and A6 are not clobbered, you MAY be able to identify
- >what is being corrupted. If you are so lucky, then you can use the
- >checksumming facility to catch the actual corruption.
- >
- >6. There is a REMOTE possibility that you have an intermittent hardware
- >problem, such as a flaky SIMM. (It would have to be real intermittent for
- >it to consistently get past the startup diagnostics) The only real way to
- >test for this is to copy your entire configuration over to another machine
- >with the same hardware configuration and see if the problem moves with it.
- >
- >Sorry I couldn't be more help.
- >
- >-tony
- >
- >>>usual disclaimers apply<<
-
-
- The system was correctly installed; I've been using Mazcs extensively
- for four years, including for programming and such. I've run Mac EKG,
- Snooper, and some other programs to check the hardware and the hard
- drive, and all reports are that the system is in good health. The
- software is all up to date, with latest versions. If the problem is
- hardware, then the problem is very, very, very intermittent and
- untraceable. Technicians have checked for hardware problems, and they
- can't find anything, either. Everything, and I mean *everything* has
- been done to find the culprit. The only thing left to do is to swap
- motherboards with another mac IIci, swap SIMMs (which were pronounced
- to be fine), and swap hard drives (which was pronounced to be fine;
- plus if it were a hard drive problem, I'd be losing data in places
- other than just the System folder)...
-
- INIT & application juggling, Mac EKG, Snooper, Norton Utilities,
- Central Point MacTools, Disk First Aid, SAM AntiVirus, system
- reinstallations, hard drive reformatting (with different drivers,
- too), SCSI device removals, cable replacements... It's all been done.
- Plus other folks here have said they've had the same problems -- Bad
- F-line errors fixed by reinstalling softwre, which is what prompted my
- reponse... I'd posted something a month ago here and on CompuServe
- and I got very little response. The only conclusion was that the SCSI
- devices might be interfering, but they're off the system. If it's the
- SCSI controller, then the motherboard has to be replaced. But before
- I go swapping motherboards, I want to make absolutely certain it's the
- SCSI controller...
-
- I've seen the same Bad F-Line errors t work, too, under different
- configurations, and I've read about them on here...
-
- Thanks,
- Chris
-
- ==================================================================
- Christopher A. Smith
- German & Mathematics -- St. Olaf College, Northfield, MN
- Internet: smithc@stolaf.edu
-