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- Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
- Path: sparky!uunet!gatech!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
- From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
- Subject: The //, was (Re: The Perennial Piracy Debate)
- Message-ID: <mvpm+=_.payner@netcom.com>
- Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:34:10 GMT
- Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
- References: <bazyar.712366277@teal> <7tnmlp#.payner@netcom.com> <bazyar.712470809@teal>
- Lines: 115
-
- In article <bazyar.712470809@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
- >payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
- >
- >
- >>This is what I am arguing, the "lost profits" argument, as presented by the
- >>software industry. Any agrument which claims losses beyond expendable
- >>income in bogus. The money does not exist, and never did, how could it
- >>be lost?
- >
- >>Piracy is another issue, which I will not argue about, and have -not- been
- >>talking about.
- >
- >>And who the hell are -you- to judge that "there's still a lot of money that
- >
- > ^^^^^^^^^^
- >I thought we were going to chill out?
-
- OK, sorry, lets do.
-
- >>Americans _do_ have to spend that isn't going where it belongs"? You have
- >>every right to make your own financial decisions, and less than no right
- >>to make them for others. It is none of your business.
- >
- > It _is_ my business if Joe Schmoe buys three $10 CD's, then decides
- >he "doesn't have enough money" to buy a game, so he pirates it. But,
- >since I misread what you were saying earlier, we'll drop it.
-
- This is not what you said. And I do not see that this neccessarily
- follows, it is just one of a near-infinite number of possible situations.
- Regardless, you have no right to judge how others should specd their
- money. You have every right to judge for yourself.
-
- >>> Yes, it's really me. I got off on a tangent, one that's becoming
- >>>very important to me. I apologize if I insinuated anything about you
- >>>in particular, but it's sad to see any IIgs enthusiast _not_ come
- >>>up in arms against piracy.
- >
- >>Yeah, just like the crusades. It is just as wrong to do evil in the name of
- >>fighting piracy as is to pirate itself. BTW, piracy did not kill the Apple //,
- >>Apple did.
- >
- > I see. Apple killed the II with System 6.0. They killed the II with
- >the Ethernet card. They killed the II with the incredible, source-level
- >developer support from DTS.
-
- Apple is doing some strange things. There was a long debate which asked
- the quite reasonable question, why System 6.0?
-
- Why Apple continues to do development on a computer that they refuse
- to advertise and that most MAC dealers would probably be unable to order
- is an open question.
-
- BTW, the ethernet card has not been released, so is still vaporware.
-
- And from what I hear, the support for the // development is nothing
- compared to the support for the MAC software. And are not some of the
- major DTS players working on the MAC now?
-
- > That doesn't fly. Developers left the II
- >for one reason: they couldn't make enough money on it. Now, whether
- >"enough money" means > $10M or not even enough to cover development,
- >piracy is a big part of this problem.
-
- You don't think that it's possible that Apple //gs wares did not sell
- because they were incredibly sluggish, the OS was an 8-bit OS with extensions
- till long after the market had died, the computer came without enough memory
- to run any reasonable programs till long after the market had died, Apple
- fixed the //gs by breaking the entire software base with the ROM 3, etc...
-
- There are a thousand reasons, and I do not think that piracy was a major
- reason. In fact, I am positive that the ROM3 upgrade did more damage to
- the //gs than piracy.
-
- > DreamGrafix and Pick'n'Pile are
- >being sold, illegally, in France. By ex-members of the FTA and Toolbox.
- >These people are almost universally worshipped here in the states, but
- >they're hardcore pirates and just as responsible as Apple (along with all
- >the other pirates) for developers leaving the II. When new software is
- >distributed across the nation in two days, thousands upon thousands of
- >illegal copies, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed.
-
- And piracy has killed the MAC markets and the PC markets as well, right?
- It is no different there.
-
- > Apple is at this point giving third party developers the opportunity
- >to take over the IIgs, in spirit if not in name or in new hardware.
-
- How so? Avatar is Burger Bill's idea, and it remains to be seen if
- he will get to dance with Apples Legal department. Let's wait and see.
-
- >That's awfully hard to do with pirates running around all over the place.
-
- I think you have placed responsibility for the current situation in
- the wrong area.
-
- >Let me give you an example. I went to a user's group meeting in
- >Champaign, Illinois. Someone there asked if they could make a photocopy
- >of the AppleWorks 3.0 manual, since theirs was "slightly warm". It's
- >this kind of nonchalance, this kind of "well, piracy is bad, but it's
- >okay _sometimes_" that upsets me. Piracy is _never_ okay.
-
- If IBM handled the PC like Apple handled the //, MAC would rule today.
- And evil done in the name of fighting piracy is still evil.
-
- >--
- > Jawaid Bazyar | Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
- > Procyon, Inc. | for the Apple IIgs!
- > bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu | P.O Box 620334
- > --Apple II Forever!-- | Littleton, CO 80162-0334 (303) 933-4649
-
- Rich
-
- payner@netcom.com
-
-
-