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- Path: sparky!uunet!olivea!apple!constellation!midway.ecn.uoknor.edu!mmmirash
- From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi)
- Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
- Subject: Re: International English/Englishes
- Message-ID: <1992Jul30.042918.26235@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
- Date: 30 Jul 92 04:29:18 GMT
- References: <Bs5pKo.Ht3@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Jul29.202134.24761@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> <1992Jul29.232523.4517@Csli.Stanford.EDU>
- Sender: usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Nets)
- Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
- Lines: 82
-
- In article <1992Jul29.232523.4517@Csli.Stanford.EDU> scobbie@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Jim Scobbie) writes:
- >In <1992Jul29.202134.24761@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar Mukund Mirashi) writes:
- >
- >> Anyway, I am in perfect agreement with you, as far as the
- >>pronounciation goes. But the written English that is taught in India is
- >>according to standard English English. We use "English" English grammar
- >>and spellings (the syntax is NOT different, phonology, vocabulary and
- >>idioms may differ, yes). My point was that the original spellings
- >>of words should not be distorted, as they have been in America. I have
- >>observed this only in the US (although by now, some other countries must
- >>have followed the contorted US spellings as well).
- >
- >Mandy: be reasonable. Some of you others: calm down. Mandy, I
- >doubt very much indeed whether your syntax is the same as 'standard
- >English English'. For example, you say
- >
- >>Could you please give me a more detailed reference on the book written
- >>by Braj Kachru (first time I am hearing about him..) and by any others
- >
- >Constructions like "this is the first time I am hearing about him" are
- >not found in stanard English. Rather you'd find "..I have heard".
-
-
- Thanks for pointing out my mistake.....however I tend to write
- English as I speak it.....I accept that "I have heard" is the correct
- alternative....I'll try to be more precise in my syntax, henceforth.
- Please do not hesitate to correct me.....I am not like one of these
- stubborn Americans. I do not claim that I have mastered the language,
- and do commit errors. However I am always willing to apologise for
- them, and try and not commit them any further
-
- But perhaps Standard English as learnt in India is
- >different from standard English English, just as Standard Scottish and
- >Standard American and Standard Canadian and Standard Jamaican are.
-
- We followed the Wren and Martin textbook for English grammar
- while in high school. The short stories that we read were mostly
- written by English authors.
-
- >
- >What you seem to desire is a standard international english. That's
- >one thing we might usefully argue about. Then there is the question of
- >*which* current variety will be the one closest to the international
- >variety. You opt for an english based pretty much on British English.
- >I think the reasons you use, that English sort of comes from England,
- >is at first glance sensible - but there are other considerations,
- >shall we say. The number currently who speak Englishes of various
- >varieties, for example. I'm not going to argue for a single
- >international variety, I don't know whether it is either necessary or
- >sensible. I'm *certainly* not going to stick up for any one particular
- >variety.
- >
-
- Why not follow the spellings (and as far as possible the pronounciations
- ) of words listed in the O.E.D.? In India, we have a similar problem
- with Hindi. However, we consider the residents of a particular state, to
- speak the pure form of the language and enforcers of the standards for
- the "standard" language. The number of people who are not residents of
- this state, but who speak different variants of Hindi, is much larger....
- ...however the Indian Govt. has decided to adopt the standard language
- and not any of its variants. In this case, however, we are arguing about
- a language that spans countries, not just states.....so I claim that
- since English comes from England, all countries and their residents
- should conform to this standard.
-
-
- >
- >> The English spoken and written by the English is the standard for
- >>the language, and all other varieties of the language spoken and
- >>written worldwide should be judged according to this standard.
- >
- >That's your hope, but it simply is not true of the real world. You
- >might get further if you start from an accurate position and argue
- >from there.
- >
- >
- >--
- >James M. Scobbie: Dept of Linguistics, Stanford University, CA 94305-2150, USA
- > scobbie@csli.stanford.edu
-
- Yes, unfortunately it isn't! Could you elaborate on what you
- mean by "accurate position"?
-