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- From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
- Newsgroups: alt.messianic
- Subject: Knowing Hashem
- Message-ID: <139459.2A7792A1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
- Date: 30 Jul 92 04:36:01 GMT
- Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26)
- Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO
- Lines: 68
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- PAB> From: pab1@quads.uchicago.edu (paul andrew braier)
- PAB> Message-ID: <1992Jul29.163553.12416@midway.uchicago.edu>
- PAB> Bill Carlson wrote ... about the field of diamonds...
- PAB> ...the evil men 'goyim/gentiles'.He must intend them to represent
- PAB> the Romans and/or early Christians. The Romans were indeed evil
- PAB> people, and their colonial...and lootings certainly were robbery.
- From the 4th Century "Roman" Church, even up to the present day;
- but NOT all the "Catholics" through out history, nor all the
- "Church" as a whole; but sadly... TOO large a part of it!
- PAB> ...their ignorance must refer to the gentiles' lack of
- PAB> understanding of Judaism.
- Well, not specificly. More that they didn't understand Spiritual
- things in general. But the reff. was more to the passage in
- Tanakh; I think it was the Ninevah-ites that Jonah was sent to,
- that didn't know their left from their right hand. That was to
- illustrate a bankrupt 'Spiritual condition', in general.
- PAB> That these 'folks' didn't know the difference between right and
- PAB> left could also mean that they represent Messianic 'Jews', who
- PAB> don't know Judaism from Christianity.
- Ah come on now! And when you were on such a roll :-) Messianic
- Jews know the diff. between Gentile-expressions of Christianity-
- (both true and false); Messianic Judaic forms of Belief; and
- modern Rabbinic Judaism; and ancient Biblical Judaism.
- PAB> I deleted the description of the old man. He is supposed to be
- PAB> Jesus. It is true that the Romans killed him.
- Well, it was supposed to represent the 1st century Jewish
- Believers, [in type]; but I guess it could fit Y'shua somewhat.
- PAB> Christian brutality toward the Jews is quite well documented. I
- PAB> don't need to go into the gory details of the Inquisition, the
- PAB> Crusades, pogroms and other Christian acts. The captives
- PAB> obviously are a reference to the forced conversions, that is, the
- PAB> result of 'missionary' work.
- That is right; by FALSE missionary work! The following few of
- your observations are close; so toward the end of your article:
- PAB> This is apparently _Mr._Carlson's_ view of Christianity. My story
- PAB> was only an attack on missionaries and their poison. ...I suppose
- PAB> that its easier to assault an institution from the inside. It was
- PAB> never my intent to attack Christianity as a whole, just one
- PAB> activity practiced by a few of its more fanatic adherents.
- It's only my viewpoint on PARTS of so called "Christianity" too;
- and NOT my intention to attack "Christianity as a whole" either.
- PAB> I will not allow myself to be bound and gagged like the poor Jew
- PAB> in my story was, or the captives in Mr. Carlson's story were....
- That's right, and neither should you...never forget! The entire
- Midrash was to illustrate the difference between someone who told
- you of a find of REAL diamonds; and those who tried to force you
- into taking FAKE ones! You see Sha'ul/(Paul): as soon as someone
- tries to FORCE you - what they have is then NOT real, but FAKE!
- Tell me about something -fine! Force me into something -gaetavek!
- There were also "good gentiles/goyim" on the road too; but that
- comes later in the Darash/homily :-) The Jewish people, [in
- general, as a whole]; have NOT rejected the "Jewish Messiah"
- Y'shua! As the "messiah" they've been presented, all too often,
- down through the centuries, has been a hateful false-messiah
- whose followers would kill their children, and rape their wives!
- That type of "messiah" I don't want/need either! But, if that
- man on the road had been presented with this "type" of false
- messiah FIRST, -(before being approached by the 'three men of
- Israel', about the REAL-Messiah), do you think he'd even stop
- to listen? ...{at least it must surely make it more difficult
- for him to automaticly take them at their word, I'd think!} I
- hope folks get some kind of a lesson from this! Shalom
-
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