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- Newsgroups: alt.messianic
- Path: sparky!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews!admin!Watson!strom
- From: strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom)
- Subject: Missionizing to 2-year-olds (was Re: knowing HaShem)
- Sender: news@watson.ibm.com (NNTP News Poster)
- Message-ID: <1992Jul27.144841.24701@watson.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:48:41 GMT
- Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
- References: <1992Jul22.154117.22108@watson.ibm.com> <1992Jul23.150454.9446@col.hp.com>
- Nntp-Posting-Host: stockholm.watson.ibm.com
- Organization: IBM Research
- Lines: 84
-
- In article <1992Jul23.150454.9446@col.hp.com>, danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart) writes:
- |> strom@watson.ibm.com (Rob Strom) writes:
- |> > In article <l6p1pdINN5er@pollux.usc.edu>, kjh@pollux.usc.edu (Kenneth J. Hendrickson) writes:
- |> > |> Rob [Levene],
- |> > |> We (believers in Yeshua) are not interested in having "positive
- |> > |> relations" with you, as an end in itself. What we are interested in is
- |> > |> having you come to know HaShem, and be saved from your sins. Everything
- |> > |> else is secondary, and pales in importance to your eternal destiny. But,
- |> > |> if having "positive relations" will be a means to further this important
- |> > |> end, then we're all for it.
- |> > |>
- |> > I think that the above very frankly states what Messianic "Judaism" and all
- |> > similar evangelical movements are about. You have only one goal ---
- |> > to convert us to Christianity. Anything else you do is only
- |> > a means to that end.
- |> >
- |> > That's why it's important for me to know who you all are
- |> > so that my children are safe from you until they reach
- |> > an age when they understand who you are and what you
- |> > are trying to do. It's why my 7-year-old child is not allowed
- |> > to take a walk alone with her aunt and uncle.
- |> > --
- |> Just an outsider's point of view Rob, I see it as someone trying to let you
- |> know that the bridge is out up ahead. If you want to drive off the end, that's
- |> your decision.
-
- The long-time posters on this group already know this, but
- some newer posters do not.
-
- I am Jewish, but support religious pluralism. While
- it may be intellectually interesting to discuss and
- debate with Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or atheists,
- ultimately I am more interested in understanding
- others' views on religion than in changing them.
-
- So why do I spend so much time arguing, sometimes emotionally, with
- Messianics and other evangelicals? An important reason
- relates to the subject of this thread ---
- the acceptability of missionizing to the young
- children of non-believers --- children as young as 2.
-
- I find it absolutely intolerable that some individuals
- are so convinced not only that their religion is
- true but that believers in other religions are
- in danger, that they are willing to tell tiny children
- of non-believers that they will die or burn in
- hell if they don't believe in Jesus.
-
- I don't believe it's like telling me that the bridge
- is out up ahead. I believe it's like my going to
- your kids and telling them that you're poisoning
- their milk and cookies and they'd better run away. I view
- it as manipulative, abusive, and a violation of
- trust.
-
- My youngest child is not allowed to ever be alone
- with her aunt and uncle because my when my older
- children were 4 and 2 they were at a beach resort
- with my wife's brother and sister and their
- spouses, and during a *one hour* period of
- walking and swimming in the ocean they were told
- that they would burn if they didn't believe in
- Jesus. My son, who was having trouble swimming,
- was told that he was sinking in the water because
- he didn't believe.
-
- Although some messianics and evangelicals have denounced
- this practice, (and some have sent me e-mail to
- that effect), a significant number of them have not
- only not denounced it, but defended it with arguments
- similar to those of Mr. Lockhart. Evangelical Christians
- are everywhere. It is frightening to realize
- that a baby sitter, a dance teacher, a camp counselor, a day-care provider,
- might feel it's the Lord's command to try to "save"
- my children because "everything else is secondary".
-
- I think it's abuse bordering on the criminal and Messianics should
- *officially* repudiate it. Then we can go back to having
- nice detached intellectual debates on what Daniel 9 means
- and so forth.
-
- --
- Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
- IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY 10598
-