World of Ham Radio 1997/WOHR97_AmSoft_(1997-02-01).iso/usenets/1995_12/_antenna.txt

Text File | 1997-02-01 | 1MB | 27,973 lines

The World of Ham Radio CD-ROM



From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:04 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Beacon antenna for 1296
Date: 1 Dec 1995 00:16:47 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <49lhhf$[e-mail]>
References: <4974o8$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1111.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

>I hope it is as simple as you suggest.  I've had several people tell me
>how "simple" it is but nobody can provide me DETAILS on constructing
>one. I've had quick "lunch-napkin descriptions" of it but never enough
>info to actually build one. I understand that it uses a series of
>phased coax within the antenna tubing too !?
>I built a 1296 beacon that needs a decent horizontal-omni antenna.
>This would really fill the bill.  I'd also appreciate more info if you
>have it. I'll gladly reimburse your photocopying and postage fees if
>you could kindly send the info to me.
>Regards..Hugh Duff  VA3TO  Toronto

HI Hugh! I'm a member of the Triangle ATV association here in the
Triangle area of NC. We have a pair of Alford slots for the 70 CM rx/tx.
I don't know much about them, but there is a regular piece of 50 ohm
feedline inside, no funny matching sections that I remember. I'm gonna
forward your message to the experts in the club that have worked
extensively with these antennas. Although they were for 70 cm, perhaps
they can provide the info needed for scaling them to 1.2.

Our club experts are:

Brian - [e-mail], and Woody - [e-mail].

Hope that helps.
73 de WB4IUY



From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:05 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!iglou!iglou2!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved!
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 00:29:43 GMT
Lines: 14

I've seen the advertised for a long time. One thing that bothered me was
the claim that it works on antennas up to 90ft long. Does that mean that
somehow it wont work on longer wires? What about something on the order of
a center fed zep cut for 160 meters using open wire line and a 4:1 balun
at the tuner??? Is there any reason why this wouldn't work or would you
have to prune the feeders as we so often do with this type of antenna.
What does the manual say about this?

Also what is the max power handeling capacity?



--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newshub.cts.com!news1.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Which HF Vertical
Date: 1 Dec 1995 03:43:27 GMT
Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <49j43t$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.equipment:21909 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17410

In article <49j43t$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Miller) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>John Seney <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>Just saw an ad in the December '95 CQ magazine for a new vertical from
>>Hy-Gain that is 10 - 40 meters, stands 29 feet tall, is self supporting,
>>and requires no radials. They also make the claim of 750 watts key down
>>for 30 minutes and no problems. They don't mention price but I assume it
>>is competitive.
>
>I would be leery of any vertical which the marketing says 'no radials
>required'. Efficiency is lost when verticals are mounted on or slightly
>above ground. A proper radial system will reduce the ground losses
>allowing better radiation from the antenna. Get a Butternut and put out
>radials - That's what I did.
>
>
>--
>Steve Miller
>[e-mail]
>WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves
Steve I would differ with you on this. Generally what you say is true, but as one raises
the feedpoint of a vertical it becomes more effecient. Granted a common-garden-variety
type vertical like my real old 14 AVQ shouldn't be used without radials but some verticals
are designed with an elevated feedpoint  so as to do away with radials. The ideal case in
point would be a dipole, made half wave length, tilted on its side. One would NOT want to
put radials on such an antenna. The gap works on the elevated feedpoint principle. Read
some of the stuff Kurt N Sterba says in WorldRadio about this.
Anybody see any holes in what I say here?
Peace
WB0FDJ


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:07 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!zib-berlin.de!news.tu-chemnitz.de!irz401!news1.urz.tu-dresden.de!server2.rz.uni-leipzig.de!news.uni-jena.de!news.tu-ilmenau.de!prakinf2.PrakInf.TU-Ilmenau.DE!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Anyone know a source for Yagi antenna parts
Date: 1 Dec 1995 11:48:44 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <49mq2s$[e-mail]>
References: <49i6ih$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11820 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17420

>I want to find a source for element-to-boom fittings so
>I can build some 2-Meter and 70-cm yagi antennas.  Is there
>any place or person that sells these?

Doug,

Suppliers of (amateur) antennas sell these over here. Maybe they do it also
at your end. However, one thing: you have too use exactly the type
of mounting specified in your design (through the boom, on top of the
boom, isolated or connected..). There are correction factors to the element
lengths for each method. A successful method is mounting the elements
isolated through the boom with nylon rivets.

73, Moritz DL5UH



From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:08 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!hookup!news.umbc.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <49cfmf$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:40:40 GMT
Lines: 17

: I am today toying with an ungodly idea of a vertical loop: about 2M up
: from the bumper, then across the top about 5M+ to the passenger side
: front bumper, 2M down, and 4" copper flashing under the car.... (NO
: attempt to keep the car separate from the antenna...) This would give
: a loop circumference of 15M, which ought to behave well, even on 75M!

This reminds me of an article in an old 50's CQ which described the
Hidden Mobile Loop. The author owned a a large 2 door coupe which has no
door pillars. Using a hacksaw, he made a cut through the metal window
support frames that hold the windshield and support the roof. He inserted
some sort of strong insulator in the cut and connected the coax feeder at
that point. This turned the entire car body into a massive loop antenna.

How this would work on todays cars with their steel radial tires and
computers remains a question. This idea may work better on convertibles.
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Dear)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought
Date: 1 Dec 1995 14:54:30 GMT
Organization: The DataXchange Network, Inc
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <49n4v6$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <491qio$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <49j4l1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: s101.bayou.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

In article <49j4l1$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>In article <[e-mail]>,

>Really, 5 to 7 dB is an awful lot to give up. I certainly wouldn't want a
>-7 dB efficiency on my transmit/receive capability, nor the power I
>purchase from the utility company. Also, a 5 to 7 dB difference is not
>'justified', it is poor agreement between model and measurement and
>unacceptable by professional standards.

>--
>Steve Miller
>[e-mail]
>WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves
Yeah, now he can go out and by a 600 watt amplifier to make up for the
7db loss...That's assuming he is only using 100 watts to start with!
Or, if he's using 1500 watts, he's now using about 650 watts!  Antenna
losses DO effect both transmit and receive so it is a compounded problem.

Jim Dear, KG5VE
[e-mail]




From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!ac032
From: [e-mail] (Geoff  Barrett)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 Meter Antennae
Date: 1 Dec 1995 15:42:01 GMT
Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada.
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <49n7o9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN]

Wanted to buy 2 m antennae Ringo Ranger type.Cannot use a Beam for lack
of space.  details to this board or e-mail to [e-mail]

VE3WP  Geoff Barrett


--


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved!
Date: 1 Dec 1995 15:48:14 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <49n83u$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
Tony Stalls (K4KYO) <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I don't know why I haven't heard more about these before now.  Maybe it's
>because they're relatively expensive and go for about $450-500, but from
>what I've seen, it seems to be well worth the money, particularly in an
>application like this.

Hi Tony, I have one mobile and it is fantastic. With a 13 ft. whip, I cover
all bands, 10m-40m. The SGC-230 inserts impedance only when needed, so a
resonant antenna can be broad-banded with it with only negilble losses.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!netcad.enet.dec.com!wade
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wade)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: re: 10 GHz dish feed needed
Date: 1 Dec 1995 21:30:19 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, LKG1-3/M07
Lines: 44
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <49ns5b$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: kali.enet.dec.com


>Article 17561 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna:
>Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news
>From: [e-mail] (Jim Dear)
>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
>Subject: Re: 10 GHz dish feed needed
>Date: 25 Nov 1995 13:41:07 GMT
..
>In article <495br1$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>>
>>Hello, i need some info on an EASY to biuld 10 GHz dish feed
>>
..
>Use the penny splash feed.  It just so happens that 3/4 copper pipe
>makes excellent waveguide for 10ghz.  A copper disk or pcb board cut
>circular to 3/4" mounted 3/4" from the end of the copper tubing will
>splash the signal into the tubing.  Of course all this mounts thru the
>center of the dish and the disc is located 3/4" short of the focus.
>
>Refer to the ARRL Microwave handbook for more info . . .
>
>KG5VE [e-mail]

very interesting.  I can't find this feed in the ARRL book - the only thing
similar has a much larger disk.

do you have any evidence that the above feed actually works?  does the f/D
of the dish matter?  Not that the original post was concerned about these
details, only that it be "EASY to biuld"...

now if you want something that's really easy to build and works reasonably
well, take a piece of ordinary WR90 waveguide with a flange on the end
and point that open end at the dish.  set it up so the focal point is
a bit inside the guide.  we've measured efficiencies around 42% on both
square and round flanges, on dishes with f/D around 0.45; should also
work with other f/D, but efficiency unknown.

of course, significantly higher efficiency is possible, but moving away
from easy to build.

paul N1BWT
[e-mail]




From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cgreenha
From: [e-mail] (Christopher K Greenhalgh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2 Meter Antennae
Date: 1 Dec 1995 23:14:58 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <49o29i$[e-mail]>
References: <49n7o9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

In article <49n7o9$[e-mail]>,
Geoff  Barrett <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Wanted to buy 2 m antennae Ringo Ranger type.Cannot use a Beam for lack
>of space.  details to this board or e-mail to [e-mail]
>
>VE3WP  Geoff Barrett

Hello Geoff.

I had an ARX-2b for a couple years, worked fine, but is all aluminum.
Spend the extra money and get a good fiberglass Comet or Diamond. I have
the latter, and it works much better than nthe Ringo...has more gain as
well.    :)



--
  +=================================+===================================+
  |Christopher K. Greenhalgh, N8WCT |[e-mail] |
  |Electronic/Computer Tech. @ OSU  |radio: n8wct@w8cqk.#cmh.oh.usa.noam|
  +=================================+===================================+


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.enter.net!usenet
From: Ken Florence <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160 meter delta loop
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 23:16:31 -0800
Organization: Enter.Net
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp24.enter.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

I can't find much abt this. Can anyone give me the details on a 160 mtr
delta loop? Can it be shaped like an upside down triangle? How high
should it be. Where do I feed it? Do I need a matching network? Any info
is appreciated.
--
Ken Florence  KA3PLS
[e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TOPBAND/160m Mail Reflector?
Date: 2 Dec 1995 00:39:30 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <49o782$[e-mail]>
References: <49mslk$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail716.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

>I understand that there is a TOPBAND Mailing List / email reflector
>dealing with 160 Meter operation, but the address ([e-mail]) I
>was given is bouncing.
>Can someone give me the correct address and instructions for registering
>for this mailing list?
>73,
Jeff Maass                     NW of Columbus Ohio      Amateur Radio
K8ND
>USPSA/IPSC # L-1192   NROI/CRO

PLease post this, if you get it, Jeff. I'd love to subscribe, too.
73 de Dave WB4IUY



From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu
From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 10 GHz dish feed needed
Date: 2 Dec 1995 01:30:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <49oa8a$[e-mail]>
References: <49ns5b$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com

In article <49ns5b$[e-mail]>, Paul Wade <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>>Article 17561 of rec.radio.amateur.antenna:
>>Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!crl.dec.com!crl.dec.com!caen!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news.dx.net!news
>>From: [e-mail] (Jim Dear)
>>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
>>Subject: Re: 10 GHz dish feed needed
>>Date: 25 Nov 1995 13:41:07 GMT
>..
>>In article <495br1$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>>>
>>>Hello, i need some info on an EASY to biuld 10 GHz dish feed
>>>
>..
>>Use the penny splash feed.  It just so happens that 3/4 copper pipe
>
>do you have any evidence that the above feed actually works?  does the f/D
>of the dish matter?  Not that the original post was concerned about these
>details, only that it be "EASY to biuld"...
>
>now if you want something that's really easy to build and works reasonably
>well, take a piece of ordinary WR90 waveguide with a flange on the end
>and point that open end at the dish.  set it up so the focal point is
>a bit inside the guide.  we've measured efficiencies around 42% on both
>square and round flanges, on dishes with f/D around 0.45; should also
>work with other f/D, but efficiency unknown.
>
>of course, significantly higher efficiency is possible, but moving away
>from easy to build.
>
>paul N1BWT
>[e-mail]

Splash plate feeds do work, but to get high efficiency you need to contour
the splash plate and surround it with a choke ring plate.   You also need
some extra bells and whistles for matching.  And yes it has to be optimized
for a certain f/D.  The feed invented during WWII by (now) Stanford Professor
Chapin Cutler is a splash plate feed.  Efficiencies of over 70% have been claimed
for that feed.  The military used it to get low profile feeds to replace
the goose-neck waveguide feed you described.  If you don't need low profile,
the goose-neck feed is a lot easier to optimize.  Probably for ham radio,
you want the goose-neck feed.

Rick Karlquist N6RK
[e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet
From: Danie Brynard <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: snr for am tv ?
Date: 2 Dec 1995 07:47:21 GMT
Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <49p0a9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net-8.pta.pix.za
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

What SNR is required for normal vestigial sideband AM TV ?

Is there perhaps a ATV usergroup ?




From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!waikato!midland.co.nz!usenet
From: John <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Gap Titan
Date: 2 Dec 1995 08:29:07 GMT
Organization: Midland Internet Limited, Network Services
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <49p2oj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: johnw.enternet.co.nz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

This antenna is designed for the SSB sections of each band and the
manufacturer gives no tuning info. Has anyone tried tweaking the tuner
rods etc. to bring it down to the CW frequencies? Any details much
appreciated.  ZL1AH .



From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought
Date: 2 Dec 1995 09:44:15 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 46
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <49ponv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Russ,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Russ Ellsworth) writes:

>MIKE,Tom that depends on what you are trying to achieve. What is good
>enough??
Gosh, if we want to be practical then we might as well all use dipoles.
After all, a yagi is only five to seven dB better!

>If perfection is the only criteria of performance than the guy
>with a 50x100 ft lot is in real troubel and should just give up on 75/160
>if perfection is the only criteria.
I don't think the question was about perfect (as most aren't). Wasn't it
more "how it works" or is "one thing better than another"?

>I stand by the practical measurement
>of how good can I get within the limitations of my time, space and money.
>The "perfect" 120 radial system all 1/4 wave long and evenly distributed,
>evenly placed in the ground certainly sounds nice.
Actually the perfect system is a solid silver sheet extending to infinity.
With 120 radials, the ideal length is ~.4 wl long for a short vertical.

I totally agree with your point. The best that can be done is the best
that can be done. But isn't discussing theory and building things fun?
IMO, understanding how something really works is the most satisfying!!!!!

>I picked the height of
>my radial system to not interfere with carrying my ladder in a vertical
>position to paint my house. I don't like buried radials because then I
>wouldn't have much good gardening space.That isn't very scientific but is
>very practical.
That's a great idea and a good scheme. I thought about that here.
Especially if the staion isn't a max effort deal. I needed a lot of
radials for maximum performance, and to use in a test area. I just laid
the wires on the earth and pinned them down with steel hooks every few
feet.

>The 4 inch high system sounds good to train NFL running
>backs to pick up their feet. It probably would give you some advantage
>compared to the ground losses of buried radials...at least I have read
>that in the literature.

Ahhh, that's my interest. All the elevated data is based on NEC models
alone. I can't find a single real world verification by actual field
strength. Stuff like this keeps me from stealing hubcaps for a living!
73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.u.washington.edu!root
From: Nina West <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna for TV channel 28
Date: 2 Dec 1995 14:33:47 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <49po4b$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs21-12.u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news://news/rec.radio.amateur.antenna/17964-18063#[e-mail]

I hope that this is not too far off-topic.
I wouldlike to build a simple, but effective antenna for TV channel 28.
This is a frequency of 554 to 560 mHz. (wavelength = 21.2 inches)
I have seen many designs in antenna references for yagis, helicals,
etc., but I would like to ask the opinion of this group for what they
consider to be a easily built and adjusted design.
The antenna would be located just under the eaves of the house with
about 15 feet of coax to the TV.  At present I use a loop taped to the
window with about 5 feet of coax.  I receive 4,5,7,9,11,13,22, quite
well, but 28 is snowy.
Thanks for your help.




From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.ramlink.net!news
From: [e-mail]    (Joe Subich)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TOPBAND/160m Mail Reflector?
Date: 2 Dec 1995 14:46:09 GMT
Organization: RAMLink Internet Access Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <49porh$[e-mail]>
References: <49mslk$[e-mail]> <49o782$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]  (Joe Subich)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hun25.ramlink.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <49o782$[e-mail]>, Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>PLease post this, if you get it, Jeff. I'd love to subscribe, too.
>

The Topband reflector is:

       [e-mail]

Administrative traffic (subscription, etc.) should go to:

       [e-mail]

To subscribe send an e-mail message containing the single line "subscribe"
in the text to "[e-mail]."   Further information is
available by sending an e-mail message containing the single line "info"
to the same address.

    ... Joe Subich, AD8I
       ([e-mail])



From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:22 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!news3.noc.netcom.net!zdc!zippo!usenet
From: Dave Hayes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NEC 4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nntp-Posting-Host: pm-lo-36.terminus.com
Organization: Zippo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <48qc76$[e-mail]> <49fuiq$ij$[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:37:14 GMT
Lines: 1

NEC4PC is available from several FTP sites.


From Unknown Sun Dec 03 12:37:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!news.sara.nl!news.pi.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Programmmm  CODE30
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 95 23:24:00 PDT
Organization: Planet Internet
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: arn27.pi.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


Can somebody help me to get the program CODE30

[e-mail]

Thanks......




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.Edu.TW!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!serv.HiNet.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.midplains.net!gw2.att.com!pacbell.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Leland Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (no subject)
Date: 8 Dec 95 05:16:42 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

add ham-ant




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mv!barney.gvi.net!news.netrail.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.island.net!ham!rs
From: [e-mail] (Robert Smits)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160 meter delta loop
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 10:38:00 PST
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: world
Organization: The Curmudgeon's Cottage
X-Newsreader: Rnf 0.79b6
Lines: 55

Ken Florence <[e-mail]> writes:

>I can't find much abt this. Can anyone give me the details on a 160 mtr
>delta loop?

Use the same formula as for any full wave loop - for the length of the
antenna in feet, use 1005/f(MHz) - so that, for example, a loop at 1.830
MHz you make a loop 1005/1.830 = 549.18 feet.

>Can it be shaped like an upside down triangle?

Yes, it can.


>How high should it be.

Well, if you use a delta loop with equal sides, each side will be 183 feet
or so long, and simple trig tells us that makes the height about 158 feet.
Add a few feet to keep the antenna out of people contact and you need
supports at about 160-165 feet. Most of us have real difficulty getting
antenna supports over a hundred feet and flatten the antenna out a bit -
for example if you make the top 210 feet long, each of the remaining sides
is only about 170 feet long and you only need supports at 140 feet or so.
Increase the length of the top still further to 250 feet, and the height
required is only about 90 feet (the antenna itself only needs 82 feet).

>Where do I feed it?

I suggest that if you are looking for long range communications you
feed it at one of the upper corners for the lowest radiation angle.
Feeding this at the bottom will change the radiation angle from 20
degrees to about 47 degrees, assuming equal length arms of the delta
loop. John Heys, G3BDQ, suggests in his fine book, Practical Wire
Antennas, that the feed line should NOT drop down vertically beside
the antenna, as that will unbalance the system and detune the antenna.

>Do I need a matching network?

No. A equilateral delta loop has an impedance of about 70 ohms, which
rises to about 100 ohms as the antenna is "flattened" by lengthening the
top and shortening the sides. I've had good success using an electrical
quarter wave of RG-11 to connect to the delta loop, and then using RG-213
to connect to the transmitter. This does make it, though, a single band
antenna.

>Any info
>is appreciated.

My experience with delta loops has been mostly on 80 metres, where I found
the delta loop to perform well and be quite low noise in comparison to a
dipole or vertical. You may also want to look at horizontal loops in delta
or quad configurations.

--
[e-mail]



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.wco.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Edward Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 440 yagi mounting
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 23:56:08 GMT
Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4a059a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.4.121.242
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have a 440 mhz yagi yhat I would like to mount about 2 feet below a
cushcraft AR-6 vertical. Whould this affect the performance of either
antenna? thank you.         Ed   KE6KEP



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet
From: Danie Brynard <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 6m yagi in arrl handbook verification
Date: 3 Dec 1995 21:10:43 GMT
Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <49t3oj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net-1.pta.pix.za
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

I want to build a 3element Yagi for the 6m band.

I have been attempting to simulate the 6m 3element Yagi antenna
design descibed in the 1995 ARRL Amateur radio handbook. (page
20.60) I am using EZNEC. According to my simulation the antenna has
only 1.9dB gain ! :-(

I think I misunderstand the dimensions given, are the distances
given the distances between the elements or rather (which is mostly
the case) the distance from the reflector ?

Did somebody perhaps do a ELNEC/EZNEC simulation that is OK ?

Danie zs6awk




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:32 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!xetron.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Timothy W. Huster)
Subject: Re: a question re a 2 meter mag mount problem
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: gate129.xetron.com
Organization: Xetron Corporation
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:41:43 GMT
Lines: 36

What kind of connector did you put on your mag mount???
If it was a bnc on the radio end of the cable, chances are
that the connector failed when you pulled the coax/connector
off the Handheld.
Why did you have to put a connector on the 2 meter in the
first place?? What happened to the original connector? Did
it fail, because of being removed from the radio. Maybe
this connector suffers the same affliction as its predeccessor!!

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>I have a strange problem. I put a new connector on my 2 meter
>mag mount and it tested fine Saturday afternoon. This morning
>the antenna was NOT working. I know all esle was ok because
>I could get out with my rubber duck ok, all else being equal.
>
>The vehicle was outside overnight and we had a heavy frost with
>22 degrees.
>
>1. Could the frost have done something?
>2. Could the cold have "shrunk" the radiator just enough to break contact?
>
>
>BRET A. PENNINGTON /  COMPUTER TECHNICIAN   /EARTH AND ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES
>CIVL 4252 317-494-0678 / PURDUE UNIVERSITY  / WEST LAFAYETTE, INDIANA 47907
>[e-mail]                   /     speaking only for myself.
>/\/\/\/\/\/ __... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ N9ZFF /\/\/\/\/\/ ...__ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>

--
  Timothy W. Huster
  [e-mail]
  kb8bnk@kc8tw.#cin.oh.usa.na
  "Dad! Mom's truck just ran your little car over!" Andrew H. age 3



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!decwrl!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!storm.atms.purdue.edu!bap
From: BRETSKI <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: a question re a 2 meter mag mount problem
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:55:01 -0500
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.atms.purdue.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I have a strange problem. I put a new connector on my 2 meter
mag mount and it tested fine Saturday afternoon. This morning
the antenna was NOT working. I know all esle was ok because
I could get out with my rubber duck ok, all else being equal.

The vehicle was outside overnight and we had a heavy frost with
22 degrees.

1. Could the frost have done something?
2. Could the cold have "shrunk" the radiator just enough to break contact?


BRET A. PENNINGTON /  COMPUTER TECHNICIAN   /EARTH AND ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES
CIVL 4252 317-494-0678 / PURDUE UNIVERSITY  / WEST LAFAYETTE, INDIANA 47907
[e-mail]                   /     speaking only for myself.
/\/\/\/\/\/ __... /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ N9ZFF /\/\/\/\/\/ ...__ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:35 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!news.tamu.edu!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought
Date: 5 Dec 1995 06:20:55 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <4a0oc7$[e-mail]>
References: <49j4l1$[e-mail]> <49n2bd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.211
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <49n2bd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) writes:
>Hi Mike,
>
>In article <mike_cash-2911950740030001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>,
>[e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS) writes:
>
>>Tom, Russ,  Just how high do the radials need to be above the ground.
>>Will 4" be as good as 12'??
>>
>>--
>>Mike, KN6IS
>
>I'm positive of one thing, if only a few radials are used the ans is no.
>Efficiency increases with height above ground. As the number and length of
>radials increases, the height becomes less critical.
>
>There is a shortage of measured data,

>By the way, I am searching desperately for **measured** data to verify NEC
>models close to a lossy media......it amazes me there isn't any,  just
>computer models verified by other computer models. If anyone has any,
>please let me know.
>
>73 Tom

Tom, I've got both types of arrays in service in practice.  My 40 meter 4
square is elevated with the radials at 9 feet high.  My 80 meter 4 square is
on the ground.  I am positive of one thing after hard gotten experience.

Where the tips of the elements are below the tree line and other things that
can take the lightning hits, elevated stuff is fine.  However, regardless of
how much less the work is for the ground mounted stuff, when the tips of the
elements start getting up there, the hit loss mounts BIG TIME.

The really clincher for me to go to the ground when I put up the 80 meter one
that was on the basis of the nice experience I got with the 40 meter one, was
that I just could not afford to take the step voltage into the shack from the
elevated feed point if the tall one took a direct hit.

I've been using all shunt fed totally grounded mast stuff for years now.  The
entire arrays are all solid DC grounded and gamma match fed for all of the
elements.  All the radials are bonded to the poles, even in the fully elevated
40 meter unit.  It all works VERY well and tunes up VERY nicely.

However, I am in tornado alley down here in Texas.  We take MANY hits and
near hits all the time, even in the commercial BC biz here.  I found out that
in order to sink the hits and surges on even the elevated unit, I still had to
go on and carry the discahrge to ground under it anyway to keep it off the
feed lines and out of the phase box upstairs.  Thus, if I had to put in the
entire ground grid under the fool thing anyway to sink the lightning, I was
just wasting my time fooling myself that 4 radials upstairs was as good or
good enought to keep up with say 16 decent ones on the ground.

When time came to put up the 80 meter array, all four Rohn 25G towers
went in a yard apiece.  They are all bonded to the discharge radials.  That is
the same thing as my RF radial network too, of course.  All of the towers are
shunt fed and it keeps the lightning OUT of the shack!

Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tame.edu



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.micron.net!cs016p10.boi.micron.net!user
From: [e-mail] (Russ Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:54:48 -0700
Organization: Alster Communications
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <49ponv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs016p10.boi.micron.net

...snip
>
> I totally agree with your point. The best that can be done is the best
> that can be done. But isn't discussing theory and building things fun?
> IMO, understanding how something really works is the most satisfying!!!!!
>
I do enjoy discussing both the theoretical as well as the practical.  When
I hear about or see what some Ham has achieved with  necessary
time/space/money I am amazed but what some achieve without some of those
assets is truly wondrous!!
>
> Ahhh, that's my interest. All the elevated data is based on NEC models
> alone. I can't find a single real world verification by actual field
> strength. Stuff like this keeps me from stealing hubcaps for a living!
> 73 Tom

Now you are really getting interesting. I too have not seen much in the
way of real info. A friend of mine modeled my system and sent me the
results. EZNEC says the system is too good to be true. I should be working
the antipodes on 75 meters every morning with 599 each way at a bare
minimum. The real world is something less than that...a whole lot less. If
you do find any real info on elevated radials I am very interested in the
subject...Nice to meet another screwball antenna nut, Tom...73..Russ


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought
Date: 6 Dec 1995 09:47:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 49
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4a4adc$[e-mail]>
References: <4a0oc7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <mike_cash-0412950903560001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>,
[e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS) writes:

>
>Tom, what if I am using a multiband vertical (Cushcraft AP8A) with four
>1/4 wl radials for each of the eight bands, do I need to elevate all 32
>radials from the ground or are there some benifits from the other
radials,
>even though they are not a 1/4 wl for a specific band?  Or another way to
>say it is the 30 to 10 meter radials helping my radials on 75 meters?
>
>--
>Mike, KN6IS

I'm sure it all helps Mike, even though not as much as a full size radial.
I see no reason to use a 40 meter radial group, and then add a shorter 15
meter group. The 40 meter group would work well on 15.

I've had some experience with multi-band system with counterpoises using 6
or 8 single length radials cut for the lowest band. The problem that
cropped up was when the radials were resonant in a mode that presented a
high impedance (i.e. 1/2 wl long, 1 wl long, etc.) at the common point.
That problem was cured by adding tie wires from radial to radial at a few
points out from the base. It looked like a spider web, hi.

Mike wrote:

>When time came to put up the 80 meter array, all four Rohn 25G towers
>went in a yard apiece.  They are all bonded to the discharge radials.
That is
>the same thing as my RF radial network too, of course.  All of the towers
are
>shunt fed and it keeps the lightning OUT of the shack!

>Mike W5WQN

That is a big concern at WVNJ with it's elevated system. The firm looking
at the system claims "RF is everywhere". They are fearful of lightning
damage, since there is no real earthing system. Anyway, the elevated
radials are being pulled out and a conventional system installed. We'll
see exactly what FS tests show in a month or so, and the system will be
lightning safe in the future.

I'm suprised by the number of Ham antennas with feedlines leaving the
tower up above the earth level and coming into the shack, or worse yet guy
lines or towers bracketed to a dwelling! God must truly love some of these
people, or they would be gone after the first thunderstorm. ;-)

73 Tom


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 95 18:17:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <49j4l1$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 17

SM> Really, 5 to 7 dB is an awful lot to give up. I certainly wouldn't
SM> want a -7 dB efficiency on my transmit/receive capability, nor the
SM> power I purchase from the utility company. Also, a 5 to 7 dB
SM> difference is not 'justified', it is poor agreement between model
SM> and measurement and unacceptable by professional standards.

On receive it doesn't matter much; you have only to look at your
S meter to prove that.  A signal going from, e.g. s9 to s8 or s7
isn't going to take it below readability.  But on transmit,
especially in a dx pileup you will have that 5 to 7 db loss proved
to you very quickly while everybody else but you gets answered.

In the HF bands, do some serious DX-ing if you want to find
out how good your antenna is. ;-)

--k2bt
 * RM 1.3 02583 * Radio operators do it with frequency.


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech2!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!gpu1!rsemenof
From: [e-mail] (Raymond Semenoff)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AEA SWR-121V/U Problems anyone?
Date: 7 Dec 1995 21:08:46 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4a7l4u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gpu1.srv.ualberta.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Hello All!

My AEA SWR121V/U antenna analyzer has developed a strange problem.  It's
frequency readout is correct but the SWR and RL readings are out to
lunch!  I've gone through the bridge setup procedure, etc. and can't
resolve the problem.  I've gone to AEA's tech support and they seem to be
asleep (or out to a VERY long lunch).

Has anyone had similar problems?  If so, what was the solution?

Thanks in advance!

73,

Ray VE6RHS

--

====================================================================
Raymond H. Semenoff                |  Amateur radio call sign VE6RHS
Chief Engineer (and bottle washer) |
CJSR 88.5 FM                       |  [e-mail]
University of Alberta              |  Compu$erve: 73637,341
Edmonton, Alberta                  |  Amateur Packet Radio:
CANADA                             |  VE6RHS@VE6MC.#EDM.AB.CAN.NOAM
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
- Ken Olson, President, Chairman, and Founder of DEC, 1977.
====================================================================


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Michael Barts)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna Design Liturature
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:52:48 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4a6o2o$[e-mail]>
References: <4a5cdp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbarts.bevb.blacksburg.va.us
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

sibert@vader (Steve J. Sibert) wrote:

>Can anyone direct me to the best books on Antenna theory
>and design?

Best books?  That's a subjective call but I'll put in a plug for
my boss's book

Antenna Theory and Design    Stutzman and Thiele
Good coverage of basic antenna theory with a good
survey of antennas.

Also, for a wide breath of antenna topics consider
Antenna Engineering Handbook   Jasik (or Johnson and Jasik,
depending on edition)
One of the 'bibles" of antenna engineering but a bit pricey (~$120)



Mike
KB4NT

[e-mail]

Michael Barts
[e-mail]                           Amateur Radio: KB4NT



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!ucsnews!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!vader!sibert
From: sibert@vader (Steve J. Sibert)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna Design Liturature
Date: 7 Dec 1995 00:27:37 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4a5cdp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vader.dsai.com

Can anyone direct me to the best books on Antenna theory
and design?

Thanks in advance!

Steve Sibert
[e-mail]

--
Steve J. Sibert


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:42 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!psgrain!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newsfeed.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!news.csug.rochester.edu!rit!sunsrvr6!jdc
From: [e-mail] (James D. Cronin)
Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Operator)
Organization: Northern Telecom, Network Application Systems
References: <49po4b$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:02:35 GMT
Lines: 24


In article <49po4b$[e-mail]>,
Nina West  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I hope that this is not too far off-topic.
>I wouldlike to build a simple, but effective antenna for TV channel 28.
>This is a frequency of 554 to 560 mHz. (wavelength = 21.2 inches)
>...
>The antenna would be located just under the eaves of the house with
>about 15 feet of coax to the TV.  At present I use a loop taped to the
>window with about 5 feet of coax.  I receive 4,5,7,9,11,13,22, quite
>well, but 28 is snowy.
>Thanks for your help.

How far away is channel 28?  Any decent outdoor antenna should beat a
loop of wire on the window.  Check out Radio Shack; they are regularly
vilified by hams, but the antennas aren't too bad.

Rolling your own antenna can be fun.  Helicals have the broadest bandwidth
and are easy to build.  Quads are broadband enough for a receive application
and easy to build.  Yagis can be fussy, especially at higher frequences.
Best bet is to build an antenna of some type, try it out, and go from there.
You never know until you try...

73..Jim  N2VNO


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (LScottH)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28
Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:10:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4a0go2$[e-mail]>
References: <49po4b$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi:
        Assuming you've got separate inputs for UHF and VHF I've got an
odd, but effective antenna for you.
        It's called the Hentenna. It's from a Japanese ham where hen means
funny.  Basic design is as follows:  1/2 wave high by 1/6 wave wide
rectangle of wire.  Divide the 1/2 wave length by 4.28, attach the feed
across the hentenna this far up from the bottom, feed at the center like a
dipole.

__________
l                l
l                l
l                l
l                l
l                l
l                l
l-------  -------l
l                l
l                l
-----------------

        You may want to shoot for a frequency half way between channel 22
and 28, this is a broadband antenna.  I use one for UHF reception, you'll
be surprised at the performance.


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:44 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!delta.misha.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!condor.ic.net!news.cic.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!iglou!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <48veer$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:50:30 GMT
Lines: 6

Beware of antennas in trees. I had a trap vertical with 1/4 wave ground
plane wire elements. The voltage at the ends of the radials while running
a kw were high enough to arc arcross a 2" insulator and melt the nylon
rope which supported it. You could set your favorite tree on fire!
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!news3.noc.netcom.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!intac!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Bill Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved!
Date: 4 Dec 1995 02:12:37 GMT
Organization: INTAC Access Corporation - An Internet Service Provider
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <49tlel$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wfld-s9.intac.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

I recently set up a "stealth" shack in my Brownstone. The antenna setup was a
long wire draped out the window and up over the roof - about 100 feet. But I
also used a "smart" tuner device, one that I am surprised has not received
more attention because it worked so well. It is the Match-All from Terramar
Systems. It cost me $99. The price shortly went up from their, but it seems
well worth it to me. I get a near flat SWR, decent receive and transmit
reports.


In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>Some of us have been trying to help a handicapped (blind) ham with his
>antenna for the past two years, but we've had very little success since
>he's one of those unfortunate folks who lives in a high-rise apartment
>with a no antenna policy.  We've tried dangling wires, loops, mobile whip
>dipoles, and lots of other things, but not until this past week did we
>find something that worked well.
>
>His Kenwood TS-440 had a built in tuner, but not surprisingly, it didn't
>help, so on advice from a couple of local folks, he bought a SGC SG-230
>"Smartuner".  We connected it to a 50 or so foot random length wire
>running out of one window and pulled around the corner of the building to
>another and fed with a single wire connected at about the midpoint.  We
>used the apartment's hot water heating system as a counterpoise.  Well,
>he's now getting out with respectable signal reports on all bands down to
>160 meters.
>
>If you're not familiar with this tuner, it doesn't use an external control
>circuit, but instead senses the RF and tunes on that.  You just QSY and
>start talking/keying the rig.  It performs as advertised and really does
>tune an antenna in two seconds, and much quicker if the frequency happens
>to have been one of 500 stored previously in it's memory.
>
>I looked at the schematic briefly and (from memory) it is essentially a
>pi-type antenna tuner a la the ARRL Handbook's "Ultimate Transmatch" that
>uses a microprocessor to control relays to switch inductors and capacitors
>in and out.  It seems I recall the inductor values as being .25, .5, 1, 2,
>4, 8, 16, and 32 uh.  The capacitors are a similar binary scheme, but I
>can't recall for sure how it was set up.
>
>I don't know why I haven't heard more about these before now.  Maybe it's
>because they're relatively expensive and go for about $450-500, but from
>what I've seen, it seems to be well worth the money, particularly in an
>application like this.
>
>73,
>Tony
>K4KYO
>[e-mail]
>
>
>



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Apartment "Stealth" Solved!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 19:40:04 GMT
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <49tlel$[e-mail]> <49u21n$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote:

>One way to decrease the SWR is to increase the losses. That's what
>these "magic" devices do. But $99 for a resistor seems a little
>excessive.

Reminds me of when I was a novice and a couple of us made a potato
antenna.  It probably didn't work quite as well as a resistor, but
it didn't cost $99.00 either.  ;)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: balanced antenna tuner(s)
Date: 5 Dec 1995 21:50:28 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 6
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4a2er4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using one
for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other tuner
for the other side of the transmission line? One possible schematic for
my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network coaxial tuners.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop
From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: balanced tuners
Date: 7 Dec 1995 20:24:46 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4a7iie$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Cecil wrote:


Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using one

for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other tuner

for the other side of the transmission line? One possible schematic for

my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network coaxial tuners.


        Sounds reasonable if feed each tuner from opposite endfs of a
balun but might be a bear to tune unless line is free of common mode
currents and tuners are kekpt i/// kept in track either visually or by
coupling .  Perhaps an ammeter in each line could be a n  addtional
complexity that would indicate proper tracking.

Charlie, W7XC
--



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: Daniel Calzaretta <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Baluns
Date: 7 Dec 1995 01:30:04 GMT
Organization: Pacific Crest Community School
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4a5g2s$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx05-39.teleport.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

This may sound like a dumb question, but what are baluns used for?
Someone told me that he used one for the coax feed on an inverted vee.

Thanks,

Dan



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!bcm.tmc.edu!newsfeed.rice.edu!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!wizard.pn.com!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Baluns
Date: 7 Dec 1995 18:21:27 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4a7bb7$[e-mail]>
References: <4a5g2s$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <4a5g2s$[e-mail]>,
Daniel Calzaretta  <[e-mail]> wrote:
>This may sound like a dumb question, but what are baluns used for?
>Someone told me that he used one for the coax feed on an inverted vee.

Hi Dan, "balun" stands for balanced-to-unbalanced transformation. An
inverted vee is a balanced dipole which performs better with a balanced
feed line. Coax is an unbalanced feed line. So in this case, the balun
performs a 50 ohm balanced antenna to 50 ohm unbalanced transmission
line transformation. A balun can also perform an impedance transformation
as in a 300 ohm balanced folded dipole to 75 ohm coax transformation which
is a 4:1 balun. There are generally two types of baluns - a "voltage"
type which delivers balanced voltages and a "current" type which delivers
balanced currents.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!lince.lander.es!news
From: [e-mail] (Jose Antonio Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Cushcraft R-7
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 09:53:48 GMT
Organization: Lander Internet
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <49rs6q$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp001.lander.es
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hello!

I am looking for expertise about the best installation for a Cushcraft
R-7, I would like know you experience.

Please any comment via e-mail to [e-mail]

Many tahnks in advance.

Best 73

--
_________________________________________________________________________
Jose Antonio Gonzalez Lorenzo -- [e-mail] -- Amateur Radio: EA2BSN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: directional couplers
Date: 7 Dec 1995 03:54:01 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4a5ogp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

Help - stupid question - When the voltage from a voltage
divider is vectorally added to the voltage from the toroidal
pickup, is the resultant vector proportional to power or
voltage? If "A" is the angle between the voltage and the
current, it appears that the resultant vector sum is:

K1*volts*cos(A/2)+K2*current*cos(A/2)

When the voltage and current are in phase, they each contribute
half the reading. When they are 180 deg out of phase, they
cancel each other. How does one calculate SWR knowing the
forward vector sum voltage and the reverse vector sum voltage?
SWR = (Vf+Vr)/(Vf-Vr) ???

thanks and 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: directional couplers
Date: 7 Dec 1995 15:49:10 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4a72dm$[e-mail]>
References: <4a5ogp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

In article <4a5ogp$[e-mail]>,
Cecil A. Moore~ <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Help - stupid question - When the voltage from a voltage
>divider is vectorally added to the voltage from the toroidal
>pickup, is the resultant vector proportional to power or
>voltage?

For the foreward wave V and I are in phase. So the voltage
from the curent pickup (foreward side) can simply be added to the voltage
sample, and the sum is proportional to the *voltage* or *currnt* of the
forward traveling wave. (Both being related to another by 50 Ohms)
Contributions from a backward travelling wave are 180 degree out of phase
and will cancel.

--> it is the result of how the two directions "foreward" and "backward"
    are defined, that the foreward wave travels with current and voltage
    in phase and the backward wave with I and V 180 degree out of phase.

73, Moritz DL5UH




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Krin135)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Field day antenna
Date: 4 Dec 1995 06:02:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 30
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <49ukfe$[e-mail]>
References: <49clnp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

While at the last HamFest in West Monroe, LA (Second Sat in November, mark
your calender and join the Twin City Ham Club next year!), I picked up an
"Incredi Bull" 1/8 wave (19" radiator) ground plane for use with my 2 m
rigs. Had a chance to put it up today. Had some problems with it at first,
as the SO239 is in the base of the sucker, and it is designed to use a set
screw to sit on top of a pole. Spent some time finagling through my junk
box, when I happened on some PVC odds and ends.

A 3/4 sched 40 PVC coupler fits nicely up inside the base of the antenna,
with room to spare for the connection. This fits snugly down into the tail
piece of a 1 1/4" sink "Tee" connector, which in turn will attach to a
standard 5' or 10' antenna mast with the one of the standard compression
ring adaptors that come with the piece. Here's the trick- a PL 259 will
not fit through the baffle on the side arm of the "Tee" connector- either
you will have to cut away the baffle, or thread your coax through and then
attach the 259. Either way will work- I used the second, as I was making
this cable on site, and did not have a long enough bit for my Dremel.

I will be using this rig for Field Day type activities, as well as when in
emergency service. The "Incredi Bull" antenna did nicely at a 10' height,
allowing me to get through to the WB5SOT repeater in Monroe, about 30
miles from my home QTH here in Mangham, LA. Signal report was good
readability, with mild to moderate hiss. As I was running about 3-5 W out
of my HTX 202 and the 9 volt battery pack, I thought that I was doing
fairly well, especially with all of the 90' oak trees that are between my
location and the repeater.

Hope that this helps some one!

73, de KC5EVN, Doc


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:55 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Brian Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Field day antenna
Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:33:51 GMT
Organization: UCI Medical Center
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4a00gv$[e-mail]>
References: <49clnp$[e-mail]> <49ukfe$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9053.slip.uci.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

In article <49ukfe$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>I picked up an "Incredi Bull" 1/8 wave (19" radiator) ground plane for
>use with my 2m rigs. Had a chance to put it up today. Had some
>problems with it at first, as the SO239 is in the base of the sucker,
>and it is designed to use a set screw to sit on top of a pole. Spent
>some time finagling through my junk box, when I happened on some PVC
>odds and ends.
CUT HERE

19" Radiator is 1/4 wave on 2 meters.

Is this antenna available in any ham stores?

Does is use radials?

What's the cost?

Does it appear to be built ruggedly?




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.mailorder.com!news.avatar.com!avatar.avatar.com!kory
From: Kory Hamzeh <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:59:34 -0800
Organization: Avatar Consultants, Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
References: <49p2oj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: avatar.avatar.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <49p2oj$[e-mail]>



On 2 Dec 1995, John wrote:

> This antenna is designed for the SSB sections of each band and the
> manufacturer gives no tuning info. Has anyone tried tweaking the tuner
> rods etc. to bring it down to the CW frequencies? Any details much
> appreciated.  ZL1AH .

I just ordered this antenna. I haven't received it yet, but my
understanding it that you get full band coverage on all bands except 80m,
which you need to tune to.

Kory
KE6VWO



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!waikato!midland.co.nz!usenet
From: John <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan
Date: 8 Dec 1995 09:01:55 GMT
Organization: Midland Internet Limited, Network Services
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4a8uu4$[e-mail]>
References: <49p2oj$[e-mail]> <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: johnw.enternet.co.nz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)

Kory, KE6VWO. Yes, the antenna will work on any frequency in the bands
for which it is designed but my rig is not very welcoming towards an SWR
of 2:1. My antenna has lowest SWR on 14250 and 21350 which is not what I
want as I work exclusively on CW. I was hoping maybe someone had played
with the tuner rods to vary resonant frequencies.  ZL1AH .



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.agt.net!news
From: [e-mail] (Steve Mason)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.noncomm,rec.radio.scanner,rec.radio
Subject: Re: Hams please read ....
Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:36:07 GMT
Organization: AGT Ltd.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4a00l7$[e-mail]>
References: <492ab0$[e-mail]> <znr817238843k@Digex>
NNTP-Posting-Host: clgrpt01-port-18.agt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17456 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:12933 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22035 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11854 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95082 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32112 rec.radio.amateur.space:5857 rec.radio.cb:24784 rec.radio.noncomm:5033 rec.radio.scanner:41464

In article <znr817238843k@Digex>, [e-mail]≡ says...

>Internet lore: the term was derived from the Monty Python skit, were 'spam'
>was said/sung numerous times.  It was a really funny skit, too.

 Bloody Vikings!!

 I guess Nye Vikings to get back on topic...


Steve



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:05:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Don Boekenkruger)
Newsgroups: rec.ham-radio,rec.ham-radio.packet,rec.ham-radio.swap,rec.radio,rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: http://www.burnabyradio.com/ham/brc.html
Date: 6 Dec 1995 06:51:18 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct Inc.
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <4a3eh6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.174.244.165
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

Hello to all who read this message.

I am letting you all know that the Burnaby Radio communications WWW page
is
now running stable, you should be able to check it out at any time.

Some of you had problems before accessing our WWW page, but that problem
should be over now.  We have changed servers so our WWW Page should work
all
the time now.


The page is at "http://www.burnabyradio.com/ham/brc.html"


We are:  Burnaby Radio Communications Ltd.
         4257 E. Hastings Street
         Burnaby, B.C.  Canada
         V5C 2J5
         Phone: [phone]
         Fax:  [phone]
         BBS:  [phone]

WWW: http://www.burnabyradio.com/ham/brc.html

Please visit us!!!

And please fill out our form, and you will receive our latest price
list.

Thanks.


Don Boekenkruger
[e-mail]



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!news.halcyon.com!usenet
From: "Gary P. Fiber" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ICOM 706
Date: 4 Dec 1995 13:20:05 GMT
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <49usi5$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm2-ip20.halcyon.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)

The IC-706 does have a CTCSS tone encoder built into the radio, how ever it
comes with the HM-103 mic which does NOT have DTMF tones.  If you reqiore
DTMF then you purchase a HM-77 mic and run the compressor in FM as to get
the DTMF level jigh enough to operate the repeater, or remove the backof
the mic and adjust the DTMF level.

Gary



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.netline.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (The Metal Head)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ICOM 706
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:03:46 GMT
Organization: Netline Communications, Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4a1qdn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <49usi5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: srq06.netline.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Does the ICOM 706 have any Satallite features?

KE4ZQV
[e-mail]






From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:01 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.eznet.net!news.enterprise.net!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!iglou2!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: ICOM 706
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:04:50 GMT
Lines: 17

I have a 706 and sure didn't know it had touch tones! No buttons makes it
kinda hard to dial! WHere are they???/





: GARRY
: Both issues have been addressed in the equipment newsgroup, which has had a ton
: of postings regarding the 706. Yes to both questions (my 706 is on backorder).

: There are also some good summaries of the 706 floating around on the Internet
: pages... use a good search engine to find them.

: Mel KJ9C
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:02 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.Edu.TW!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!serv.HiNet.net!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary McDuffie, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ICOM 706
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 04:30:36 GMT
Organization: AG0N's Radio Ranch
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <49usi5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.206.239.244
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

I don't have, have never seen a 706.  However, let's use a little common sense
here.

On 4 Dec 1995 13:20:05 GMT, "Gary P. Fiber" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> The IC-706 does have a CTCSS tone encoder built into the radio, how ever it
> comes with the HM-103 mic which does NOT have DTMF tones.  If you reqiore
> DTMF then you purchase a HM-77 mic and run the compressor in FM as to get
> the DTMF level jigh enough to operate the repeater, or remove the backof
> the mic and adjust the DTMF level.

If you adjust the level in the microphone, the encoder is IN THE MICROPHONE!
It is highly unlikely they would have the encoder in the radio and then run 8
wires just for the pad to the radio.  That hasn't been done since Galena!  You
would also have to run at least 2 wires from the pot to control the level.
C'mon, folks, THIMK!

By the way, let's take this to the right newsgroup.  Please?
  __              _   __  __
 / _ _ _    __   /_| / _ /  )/| )
(__)(// (/      (  |(__)(__// |/
        /
[e-mail]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet3.freenet.ufl.edu!afn17891
From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ICOM 706
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 03:12:19 -0500
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet3.afn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>


  On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 [e-mail] wrote:
> I don't have, have never seen a 706.  However, let's use a little common sense
> here.
> On 4 Dec 1995 13:20:05 GMT, "Gary P. Fiber" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > The IC-706 does have a CTCSS tone encoder built into the radio, how ever it
> > comes with the HM-103 mic which does NOT have DTMF tones.  If you reqiore
> > DTMF then you purchase a HM-77 mic and run the compressor in FM as to get
> > the DTMF level jigh enough to operate the repeater, or remove the backof
> > the mic and adjust the DTMF level.
> If you adjust the level in the microphone, the encoder is IN THE MICROPHONE!
> It is highly unlikely they would have the encoder in the radio and then run 8
> wires just for the pad to the radio.  That hasn't been done since Galena!  You
> would also have to run at least 2 wires from the pot to control the level.
> C'mon, folks, THIMK!
> By the way, let's take this to the right newsgroup.  Please?

Start thinking is a good starting point, I know after you wrote your
reply; it probably dawned on you...

CTCSS AN DTMF are "NOT" the same....

Yes the CTCSS board is built into the radio; so you can program it
via the CPU <even though this is not a computer> <or is it???> It is
the same method used in normal 2 mtr radios...

Yes the DTMF chip can be in the mic, where 8v, gnd, up, down, ptt,
Audio and other leads terminate. Yes you also adjust the DTMF level
inside the mic...

The message may be in the wrong group; but at least it is in the right
prospective... Better luck next time. De Tom KD4QHH.






From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:05 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!iglou!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: ICOM 706
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <49usi5$[e-mail]> <4a1qdn$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:45:22 GMT
Lines: 14

Yes Metal Head but it requires a Saturn 5 to get it in orbit.


The Metal Head ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does the ICOM 706 have any Satallite features?

: KE4ZQV
: [e-mail]




--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cioeserv.cioe.com!alpha.comsource.net!snow.snowhill.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!scratchy.mi.net!fougereg
From: [e-mail] (fougereg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: INFO WANTED
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 95 20:28:15 GMT
Organization: MIS Saint John
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4a4ucv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fougereg.mi.net
To: ALL
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

I need information on how to build a four element beam antenna!

Geoff


      _____________________________________________________
                            Geoff Fougere
                         Email [e-mail]
      _____________________________________________________


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!pravda.aa.msen.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!sun4nl!news.euro.net!p028.ztm.euronet.nl!pb0aiu
From: [e-mail] (Peter)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Invisible bevarage?                                                                     Need experience!
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 08:43:00
Organization: Euronet Internet
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p028.ztm.euronet.nl
Keywords: beverages
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

Hi there,

At the present moment we are using a 2 wire switchable beverage to NE (Japan)
and SW (South America) and a single bevarage to the west (america). There are
3 meter up in the air and work very well!!.

The neithbours started complaining about the wires (not on the towers ant
verticals( HI HI)).

Get some in info on snake antennes and EWE. The EWE is not the right solition
to put up.

The snake antenne seems to work well at some stations (those have no beverage
tested) and other says those antennes don't work.

My question:

Has ANY one put down the beverage down to the ground (or 1 inch below)?

How do they work?

What kind of resistor for temination?

73 Peter

Pb0aiu Pi4cc

http://euronet.nl/users/pb0aiu/homepage.html



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Brian Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: J-pole antenna: how to prevent coupling to mast support
Date: 4 Dec 1995 23:42:08 GMT
Organization: UCI Medical Center
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4a010g$[e-mail]>
References: <49vlls$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9053.slip.uci.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

In article <49vlls$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>Does anyone know how to prevent coupling between a J-pole antenna and
>the mast tube support? It may distort the antenna radiation pattern.
>Will it help to add e.g. a ground plane to the J-pole antenna?
>A choke at the coax feeder will stop the coax from radiating, but how
>to prevent the mast tube from radiating?
>Ulf

Ulf,  Are you sure the support tube is creating a problem?  You stated
that "It may distort the antenna radiation pattern".  This is true, but
if the J is mounted above the mast, the coupling is extremely minimal.
If the J is mounted to the side of the mast, the radiation pattern is
definately affected.  Try to mount the J on a stand-off that is at
least a 1/2 wavelength away and that will help greatly.
Good Luck,  Brian  N6ZAU



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news1.transpac.net!news2.transpac.net!news.tripnet.se!news
From: [e-mail] (Ulf Lange)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: J-pole antenna: how to prevent coupling to mast support
Date: 4 Dec 1995 20:28:44 GMT
Organization: Tripnet AB
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <49vlls$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: heron4.tripnet.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

Does anyone know how to prevent coupling between a J-pole antenna and the mast
tube support? It may distort the antenna radiation pattern.

Will it help to add e.g. a ground plane to the J-pole antenna?

A choke at the coax feeder will stop the coax from radiating, but how to
prevent the mast tube from radiating?

Ulf



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!usenet
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: J-pole antenna: how to prevent coupling to mast support
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:34:14 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (NAWS news admin)
References: <49vlls$[e-mail]>
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
To: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-Url: news:49vlls$[e-mail]
Lines: 12

A ground plane is always a good idea for a vertical antenna.  Even if
one is "not required".  It will add effciency of radiation and provide
RF decoupling from the feedpoint.  When in doubt add a ground plane if
practical.

  \------------------------------------------------------/
   \  Bill Harwood           U play it, I'll dance it   /
    \ AB6DY                         or                 /
     \                      I'll play it, U dance it  /
      \----------------------------------------------/




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech2!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!hamop
From: [e-mail] (CHARLES J. MICHAELS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ladder Line
Date: 7 Dec 1995 20:15:07 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4a7i0b$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


Cecil wrote:

   [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote:



>This leads me to conclude that one doesn't need an antenna tuner

>for this type of antenna. One only needs to vary the length of

>the transmission line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less with a 1:1

>choke balun to ensure current balance.



        While indeed the impedance seen along an unmatched line will vary
with length, the SWR is relatively constant (small reduction with increasing
length for relatively low loww/// loss lines).

Charlie,  W7XC
--



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newshub.cts.com!news1.crl.com!nntp.crl.com!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ladder Line
Date: 8 Dec 1995 15:38:40 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4a9m60$[e-mail]>
References: <4a7i0b$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <4a7i0b$[e-mail]>,
CHARLES J. MICHAELS <[e-mail]> wrote:
>   [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote:

>>One only needs to vary the length of the transmission line to obtain an SWR
>>of 2:1 or less with a 1:1 choke balun to ensure current balance.
>
>       While indeed the impedance seen along an unmatched line will vary
>with length, the SWR is relatively constant (small reduction with increasing
>length for relatively low loww/// loss lines).

Sorry Charlie, that I wasn't clear. I should have said: One only needs to vary
the length of the ladder-line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less on the 50
ohm SWR meter between the transmitter and the 50 ohm 1:1 choke balun. The SWR
on the ladder-line is relatively constant but the 50 ohm SWR seen by the
transmitter certainly varies enormously with changes in the length of the
ladder-line.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ladder-line thoughts
Date: 4 Dec 1995 06:16:02 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <49u3n2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

Assume our goal is to keep the SWR seen by the transmitter to
less than 2:1, i.e. the impedance between 25 and 100 ohms. If
we plot the 300 ohm SWR on the Smith Chart we see we can accomplish
this for any ladder-line SWRs between 12:1 and 3:1  These are
the ranges of SWRs that we would expect from a multi-band dipole.
We can usually trim any non-resonant antenna so that the SWRs
fall within these ranges. Note 300/12=25 and 300/3=100.

This leads me to conclude that one doesn't need an antenna tuner
for this type of antenna. One only needs to vary the length of
the transmission line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less with a 1:1
choke balun to ensure current balance.

The trick is to measure the ladder-line SWR and locate the nearest
current or voltage node. Everything else is duck soup. I did it
for my 88 ft dipole today on 20m, 17m, and 10m. Worked like a charm.
Thoughts?

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
Date: 4 Dec 1995 17:36:40 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <49vbj8$[e-mail]>
References: <49u3n2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <49u3n2$[e-mail]>,
Cecil A. Moore~ <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Assume our goal is to keep the SWR seen by the transmitter to
>less than 2:1, i.e. the impedance between 25 and 100 ohms.

One additional thought: If the 300 ohm ladder-line SWR is
between 1:1 and 3:1, use a 4:1 balun at a current node for
a 50 ohm SWR of less than 2:1  If the 300 ohm ladder-line
SWR is between 3:1 and 12:1, use a 1:1 balun at a current
node for a 50 ohm SWR of less than 2:1  SWRs above 12:1
are unlikely in the real world unless one likes full-wave
centerfed antennas.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
Date: 5 Dec 1995 18:01:28 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 46
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4a21do$[e-mail]>
References: <49u3n2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
WB3U <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I think Steve Ellington posted something along these lines some time
>ago.  His suggestion wasn't aimed at eliminating the tuner altogether,
>but he proposed using a rolled-up length of ladder line, with taps.

Thanks, I couldn't remember who posted that. Seems to me, tapping a
rolled-up length of ladder line would create un-predictable stubs on
one side of the tap. However, it's the same concept and I admit that I
didn't read that posting closely.

>Regarding the use of a balun to feed this system, is it safe to
>assume that the same feedline length that provides an appropriate
>feedpoint impedance will serve to mitigate common mode voltage?

No, but it may be safe to assume that common mode currents are
neglible. However, it's a good idea to measure common mode currents
and it's easy since it can be done by passing the ladder-line through
a single toroidal pickup. The majority of hams for a hundred years
have assumed that common mode currents are neglible. I was a lot
more satisfied with my antennas before I heard about the common
mode problem. Thanks a lot, Tom!!! :-)

>Maybe the
>rolled-up ladder line would have an advantage in this area - it
>might act as a choke to parallel voltage.

That's an idea. Inductance seen by the parallel currents but not
by the differential currents. What would need to be the diameter
of the coil and spacing of the conductors for 300 ohm ladder-line?

>Also, tuner settings in my ladder-line system change considerably
>when it rains.

I don't have that problem in Arizona. :-)

>Another thing that might cause similar problems is the rise in SWR
>that takes place at the band edges.

Since the impedance at the band edges is relatively close to the
resonant impedance, an antenna tuner used for touch-up should work
without too much of a strain on the balun. It's not as if the band
edges result in SWR's of 20:1 - more like 3:1

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
Date: 5 Dec 1995 21:13:46 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 17
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4a2cma$[e-mail]>
References: <49u3n2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
Steve Ellington <[e-mail]> wrote:

>... I wrapped 35
>feet of this feeder around a wooden frame, spacing it about 1" apart, and
>put this in line with my feeder. I was able to tap my coax/1:1 balun
>arrangement at various places to locate the low swr point for any band 40
>through 10.

Hi Steve, thanks for the info. What was the diameter of the wooden frame?
On the unused part of the "coil" did you short it out or let it float as
a stub? Seems like one would need to short it out to make things predictable.
I'm thinking of a single horizontal loop paralleled about a foot apart and
shorted across at the proper point per band. By some strange coincidence
my 20m and 10m lowest SWR points are the same.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 21:23:51 GMT
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <49u3n2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote:

>This leads me to conclude that one doesn't need an antenna tuner
>for this type of antenna. One only needs to vary the length of
>the transmission line to obtain an SWR of 2:1 or less with a 1:1
>choke balun to ensure current balance.

Hi Cecil,

This seems workable, but I have a few comments and questions (just
food for thought):

I think Steve Ellington posted something along these lines some time
ago.  His suggestion wasn't aimed at eliminating the tuner altogether,
but he proposed using a rolled-up length of ladder line, with taps.
Seems like the same concept, just different mechanics.

Regarding the use of a balun to feed this system, is it safe to
assume that the same feedline length that provides an appropriate
feedpoint impedance will serve to mitigate common mode voltage?  If
not, feedline balance, balun heating, and tuner loss (under actual
conditions) would have to be checked on every band before it could
be assumed that the system is working correctly.  Maybe the
rolled-up ladder line would have an advantage in this area - it
might act as a choke to parallel voltage.

Also, tuner settings in my ladder-line system change considerably
when it rains.  It would be interesting to know what the actual
change is in terms of SWR (on the ladder line) and feedpoint
impedance.  For a fixed length of line, this might throw the
feedpoint impedance into a region the balun can't tolerate.

Another thing that might cause similar problems is the rise in SWR
that takes place at the band edges.  Have you tried this approach on
80M yet?  I'm curious what the impedance will be across the band when
the feeder is used to tune the system.

Hope the preceding doesn't sound too negative.  This is all
you-know-who's fault though.  ;-)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
Date: 6 Dec 1995 09:48:38 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 8
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4a4ag6$[e-mail]>
References: <4a2cma$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

What about a gradually tapering line, that eventually reaches the desired
impedance? I used a line that had 600 ohm into 450 ohm into 300 ohm into
225 ohm into 150 ohm into 100 ohm into....well you get the idea!

Stick that in your Smith chart and smoke it.

73,
Tom


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:19 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!iglou!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <49u3n2$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4a2cma$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:12:18 GMT
Lines: 42

Make the frame from two pieces of lumber about 3/4" thick X 2" wide X 24"
long. Space these about 2ft apart using two pieces of 3/4 pvc pipe.
Nothing is critical here. All we are doing is making a frame big enough
to hold the desired amount of wire. ideally, the space between turns of
the feeder should equal or exceed the spacing between the idividual wires
in the feeder i.e. about 1" for 450 ohm wire.

Connect the antenna's feeder on one end and the balun/rig on the other.
Cut a hunk of feeder long enough to reach any point on the form and
connect it to one end of the coil, it doesn't matter which end. All we
are doing is changing the overall distance the rf must travel.

Now before you go to all the trouble to do this. Try to make things come
out right on the lowest freq. band with no shorting of the feeder. This
reduces the number of taps you need to fool with by ONE. If you resonate
the whole system for 80 meters, wrap 33ft of feeder around the form.
Somewhere along the way, you will find a "ballpark match" for any freq. A
tuner usually isn't required but even on tough bands, the auto-tuner in
almost rig can clean up the left-overs.

SPACE SAVER MODEL

Make a box shapped form and reduce the length accordingly.

OUTDOOR MODEL

Put it outside anywhere along the feeder.

AUTOMATIC MODEL

Use relays to do your switching.


NOTE: Using 300 open line instead of 450 ohm results in less drastic
impedance excursion. This makes matching much easier!

NOTE:2

If you use BARE wire for the feeder thats wrapped around the form, it
sure makes finding taps a lot easier!
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet
From: Danie Brynard <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for 23cm yagi design
Date: 3 Dec 1995 21:11:26 GMT
Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <49t3pu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net-1.pta.pix.za
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

Hi OM

I am looking for the antenna dimensions or alternatively references
to literature describing antenna designs for the 23cm band. I am
particularly interested in building a yagi antenna with a boom
length of between 1 and 2.5m maximum. (a gain of between 10 and
20dB)

Any programs for the design of it is also welcome.

I can be contacted at:

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Thanking You & 73

Danie zs6awk




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for 23cm yagi design
Date: 5 Dec 1995 08:00:39 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4a0u77$[e-mail]>
References: <49t3pu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>I am looking for the antenna dimensions or alternatively references
>to literature describing antenna designs for the 23cm band.

A very good description of such antennas was given recently in the DUBUS
magazine. Dimensions for several boom length and radiation patterns
(NEC-2) were given. It is the transfer of the DL6WU desitgn to 23.

73, Moritz DL5UH


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:21 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!jazz!butch
From: [e-mail] (' ALLAN W. BART)
Subject: looking for Info on Vlf Active Antenna Design
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Maestro Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:52:50 GMT
Lines: 7

Hello,

I have seen several of the articles out there by Burhans and other
authors on the subject that were published in the 80's. Now I wishing to
get newer info on the subject. so what do you know of.

allan


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!io.salford.ac.uk!aber!bath.ac.uk!bell.ukonline.co.uk!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: mobile aerial for hf
Date: 6 Dec 1995 16:04:11 GMT
Organization: UK Online
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4a4etr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: turing.ukonline.co.uk

I wish to construct a mobile aerial can someone provide
a design


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space
Date: 4 Dec 1995 12:07:35 GMT
Organization: IONet
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <49uoa7$[e-mail]>
References: <49i6jp$[e-mail]> <49shlr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osip25.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: [e-mail]

Hello Tom,
      A friend of mine is going to mount 3 whips above his coil
 (one straight up and the other two at about 30 degrees to
either side). What do you thing will be the effect of this
arrangement on current distubution. Just looking to for
ways to overcome the problem of mounting hat high on the
antenna on a mobile...73 Hank WA5JRH



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space
Date: 4 Dec 1995 12:09:12 GMT
Organization: IONet
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <49uod8$[e-mail]>
References: <49i6jp$[e-mail]> <49shlr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osip25.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: [e-mail]

Hello Tom,
      A friend of mine is going to mount 3 whips above his coil
 (one straight up and the other two at about 30 degrees to
either side). What do you thing will be the effect of this
arrangement on current distubution. Just looking to for
ways to overcome the problem of mounting hat high on the
antenna on a mobile...73 Hank WA5JRH



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile antennas for Limited Space
Date: 5 Dec 1995 05:09:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 27
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4a15ok$[e-mail]>
References: <49uod8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <49uod8$[e-mail]>, Hank Blackstock
<[e-mail]> writes:

>A friend of mine is going to mount 3 whips above his coil
> (one straight up and the other two at about 30 degrees to
>either side). What do you thing will be the effect of this
>arrangement on current distubution.

Hi Hank,

I don't really know for sure.

It would seem reasonable to expect it would look something between a cone
and a whip. A cone is better than a linear conductor (whip), but not as
good as a top hat loaded linear conductor.

The goal with a short radiator is to have linear current distribution
throughout the radiator, and to not increase resistive losses faster than
radiation resistance normalized to the same point in the antenna (say the
current loop).

My puzzlement is exactly where three whips would fall in efficiency.
Sounds like a job for a FS meter! The system could be compared to a whip
the same height with enough "hat" at the top to resonate on the same
frequency with the same coil.

73 Tom


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.eznet.net!news.enterprise.net!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.suba.com!qni.com!gwatts
From: Gary Watts <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Modified 160 Antenna - 160-ant.txt (1/1)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:28:49 -0600
Organization: Suba Communications
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <c37cb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: qni.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <c37cb$[e-mail]>

Jay,
It would had been nice just to read your message instead of DECODING IT !

Here it is for  others !
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
        The name here iJay and the QTH is Annville, PA.  I
would just like to contribute the modifications that I made
to my Spiro 160 meter shortend antenna.
        Since moving into town I didn't have the spce for a
full half wave 160 antenna so I put up a Spiro shortened
single band 160 meter antenna.  This worked fine and being
only 100 feet long fit my lot.  This antenna has a loading
coil,(Spiro calls them shortners), half way out each leg.
Wanted to possible improve the perfromance I decided that I
had enough room to make half the antenna a full 1/4 wave and
let the other side think it wa a 1/4 wave.  This worked well
and not only broadened the bandwidth but allowed the antenna
to be tuned up on the other bands.  Previously the only
other band that it would tune on was 10 meters, I suspect it
was loading the 50 feet between the coils.
        I work a sched with a friend about 150 miles away and
got consistantly better reports than with the shorter
antenna.
        The latest change that i have made is due the fact that
I had a lot of extra RG8X coax and wanted to neaten things
up a bit i wound a coax balun that just happend to be about
30 feet from the feed point.  This is the point where the
feedline makes the turn from the fence post to the antenna.
That has made another significant improvement in the signal
strength.  I figure that this 1/16 wavelength of coax going
at about a 45 degree angle is now radiating.
        Being in town with close neighbors I do not run an amp
and these signal reports are over a period of several
months.
73 de N3DMU





From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.suba.com!qni.com!gwatts
From: Gary Watts <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Modified 160 Antenna - 160-ant.txt (1/1)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:50:56 -0600
Organization: Suba Communications
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <c37cb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: qni.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

Jay,
Your message was uuencoded.
I dont know what you did wrong if anything.... other than the message was
encoded.
Encoded the message was about 1/3 larger than the unencoded message
anyone who would want to glance/read your message would
have to export that message to a file,
then run uudecode filenemae,
then load it into a text reader just to read your message.
Did you do anything wrong  < I guess not
I just made it easier for WHO EVER wanted to READ your message to do so

Good luck on your next post
Gary Watts  de  N0OXV
Kansas City Mo
81 GL1100I


PS...
Jay
What is your correct email address...
The postmaster at your site dont know you ??
See message at END

On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Jay K Bell wrote:

> Hi Gary,
> Thanks for decoding the message.  It would have really been nice if
> you wouod have passed along what it possibly was that I did wrong.
> Thanks
>
>
>
>

From [e-mail] Dec  7 09:47:14 1995
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:42:31 -0500
From: Mail Administrator <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

The following destination addresses were unknown (please check
the addresses and re-mail the message):

SMTP <[e-mail]>

Please reply to [e-mail]
if you feel this message to be in error.

  [ Part 2: "Included Message" ]



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!matlock.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (John Huecksteadt)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: N4PC LOOP ANTENNA
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 13:07:48 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <49s7g8$[e-mail]>
References: <49bcvs$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: jwhac4ca.mindspring.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (LORMARSCO1) wrote:

>I have the article that was published in CQ antenna guide a couple of
>years ago regarding a folded loop that was designed by N4PC called the "PC
>Loop".  The side length is about 55 feet.  Is there any other combinations
>of lengths or shapes that I can use on this interesting antenna.  The area
>that I have presents a problem for the size and shape described.  I can go
>bigger or with a diamond shape.  I cannot find any programs that can
>generate dimensions for this antenna.  Please help.  TNX.  WBOHNS.

Dave Fisher (W0MHS) had an article in "QST" about nine years ago.  I
believe it was called "The Loop Skywire".  He had dimensions, etc.  I
will look around and see if I can find the issue.  -John (AC4CA)



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.intelenet.com!news.service.uci.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.mr.net!medtronic.com!usenet
From: Toby Markowitz <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: NEC 4
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 16:00:36 -0800
Organization: Medtronic Inc.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <48qc76$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: liang.pace.medtronic.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)
CC: [e-mail]

Chris Eilbeck wrote:
>
> Where can I get a copy of NEC 4?  Is it still written in very VAX-specific
> fortran or is NEC 4 more portable?
>
> TIA
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Eilbeck, [e-mail]
> Room PC126, DRA Malvern. Tel [phone]. Fax [phone]


hello test


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!Dortmund.Germany.EU.net!nntp.gmd.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news.ruhr-uni-bochum.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: NEC 4
Date: 3 Dec 1995 14:28:22 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <49sc66$[e-mail]>
References: <48qc76$[e-mail]> <49fuiq$ij$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>NEC4PC is available from several FTP sites.

This will be surely NEC for PC and not NEC version 4.

Moritz DL5UH




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:31 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Re: New Office, No Reception!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <berken-0712950825040001@205.242.4.32>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:06:51 GMT
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail]

Bob Berken ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I recently started a new job and I'm having problems picking up any a.m.
: stations. The radio I'm using is a portable Sony CDF-450, your standard
: small stereo. The building I'm in is a 24 floor complex. Any suggestions?

1) Move the radio close to a window.

2) There are devices which "boost" AM stations, typically they contain a
coil of wire and you place them next to the radio without connecting
anything.

3) Try to listen to stations at the higher end of the AM dial.  There is
a huge difference in how they travel through buildings.  Once, I heard a
broadcast engineer say that AM signals are "fatter" than FM ones and have
a harder time getting into small spaces.  Somewhat of a simplistic way of
stating the case, but the signals are less "fat" at the upper end of the
dial.  I've noticed that a station on 570 disappears totally inside my
parking garage, but one on 1310 comes in perfectly OK.  The difference in
wavelength is more than 2 to 1.


I'm somewhat in the same boat, but with FM reception.  If anyone has any
advice for me, I'd appreciate it.  Like how to build an antenna with 12db
gain I can hold in my hand.


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.netalliance.net!NewsWatcher!user
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: New Office, No Reception!
Message-ID: <berken-0712950825040001@205.242.4.32>
From: [e-mail] (Bob Berken)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:25:04 -0500
Organization: Colle & McVoy, Inc.
Nntp-Posting-Host: 205.242.4.32
Lines: 3

I recently started a new job and I'm having problems picking up any a.m.
stations. The radio I'm using is a portable Sony CDF-450, your standard
small stereo. The building I'm in is a 24 floor complex. Any suggestions?


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:33 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!herbr
From: [e-mail] (Herb Rosenberg)
Subject: Opinions on Force12 Antennas?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 23:48:34 GMT
Lines: 28
Sender: [e-mail]

I am interested in getting comments from any hams out there that have had
any experience with the Force 12 antennas.  I am in the early planning
stages of designing a new antenna system for HF operations, and I would
like to get a top quality and top performing solution.  It was been
suggested that many contesters and dx'ers consider Force 12 to be a
leading design, and I would appreacite any comments.

The last ime I was seriously looking for HF antennas was more than 20
years ago,.  At that time, it seemed that most of the world class
stations were using Telrex antennas.  telrex no longer makes HF antennas
for hams.  I know that yhgain, cushcraft, and KLM still make excellent
antennas for HF, but I would like to know, what is currently considered
the "best"

I will be setting up a 71 foot tower on a standard city lot, and would
like to high a competitive Dx and contest station for all hf bands.  I am
not looking to compete with world class antennas farms, but still would
like to be competive.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly apprecaited.

Thanks and vy 73's.

Herb - KG6OK


--
[e-mail]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cgl!itssrv1.ucsf.edu!usenet
From: John M Taylor <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Opinions on Force12 Antennas?
Date: 6 Dec 1995 22:12:55 GMT
Organization: UCSF, ITS
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4a54h7$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gicd-mac15.ucsf.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
To: [e-mail]
X-URL: news:[e-mail]

I use a Force 12 Dxer and I am quite happy with it.  It is exceptionally
well designed, made with 6061T aluminum, and telescoping sections are
put together with rivets -- a hand riveter is cheap and easy to use --
and rivets can be drilled out easily.  This design is vastly superior to
stainless steel bolts or hose clamps.  Assembly is easy since all rivet
holes are predrilled, and essentially no alignment is required.  Element
positions on the boom are located by brackets already riveted in place.
I have not found a better engineered or stronger commercial antenna than
those made by Force 12 -- many other companies produce junk by
comparison.  The gain and f/b ratios for Force 12 antennas also appear
to be accurate, not the advertising nonsense perpetrated by some other
companies.  Force 12 probably has the greatest selection of antennas
available, and they also custom build for you -- sometimes a customer's
request becomes part of the product line.  Everyone associated with the
company is friendly and helpful.  As you can tell, I am enthusiatic
about their antennas.




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:36 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Re: PVC booms
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <4a50n5$[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:32:27 GMT
Lines: 27
Sender: [e-mail]

HENRYPOL ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter
: gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for
: 6 or 10 meters?  Especially interested in how to attach elements and
: hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to
: fail.

Are you trying to put the elements INSIDE the plastic?  Or is just the
boom itself made of plastic and you will do something like drill holes
through the pipe and shove metal rods through at various points. If you
are doing the latter, perhaps you could cut the (boom) pipe where you
want to attach elements and splice in some type of plastic fitting for added
strength.

I might be interested in doing something similar and have a couple of
questions (which are probably "dumb").

1. If the boom is plastic and you shove metal rods (i.e. directors)
through it, does it matter that the boom itself is not conductive?  I
know that the drive element has to be insulated from everything else but
do the other elements need to be electrically connected?

2.  If the elements were INSIDE plastic pipes (for added strength), would
there be an appreciable effect on the performance of the antenna?  I
would think not because, although the dielectric constant is higher in
the plastic, it is not a significant part of the path of the signal.



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC booms
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 16:02:24 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4a7346$[e-mail]>
References: <4a50n5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip27.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (HENRYPOL) wrote:

>Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter
>gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for
>6 or 10 meters?  Especially interested in how to attach elements and
>hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to
>fail.
I have made two yagi's from PVC.  One used 3/8 inch elements and the
boom was drilled.  The other used 1/2 inch copper for the elements and
I used X-Fittings over the boom.  Rather than cut the boom, I honed
out the fittings so they would slide over the boom, the boom is not
drilled.  Because of the length I was leary about drilling also.

I did have to support both ends of the boom and mount the antenna 10
feet below the top of the mast and run guys from just inside the tip
of each boom to the tip of the mast to support the boom straight, else
it looked like a horseshoe.

TTUL
Gary - KG0ZP




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:38 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!mack
From: [e-mail] (Joe Mack)
Subject: Re: PVC booms
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
References: <4a50n5$[e-mail]> <4a7346$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:44:09 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <4a7346$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.) writes:
>[e-mail] (HENRYPOL) wrote:
>
>>Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter
>>gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for
>>6 or 10 meters?

Regular antenna grade Al tubing (6061-T or whatever) is MUCH lighter for
the same strength

Joe NA3T [e-mail]


>>Especially interested in how to attach elements and
>>hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to
>>fail.
>I have made two yagi's from PVC.  One used 3/8 inch elements and the
>boom was drilled.  The other used 1/2 inch copper for the elements and
>I used X-Fittings over the boom.  Rather than cut the boom, I honed
>out the fittings so they would slide over the boom, the boom is not
>drilled.  Because of the length I was leary about drilling also.
>
>I did have to support both ends of the boom and mount the antenna 10
>feet below the top of the mast and run guys from just inside the tip
>of each boom to the tip of the mast to support the boom straight, else
>it looked like a horseshoe.
>
>TTUL
>Gary - KG0ZP
>
>




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gate.net!gate.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jay Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC booms
Date: 8 Dec 1995 11:05:19 -0500
Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4a9nnv$[e-mail]>
References: <4a50n5$[e-mail]> <4a7346$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hopi.gate.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. ([e-mail]) wrote:
: [e-mail] (HENRYPOL) wrote:
:
: >Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter
: >gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for
: >6 or 10 meters?  Especially interested in how to attach elements and
: >hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to
: >fail.

I use 1.5" white PVC to build yagis on 70cm, 2m, and 6m with no problem.
The longest boom is about 6' on the 6m 3element yagi.  I use the thick
wall PVC with 1/4" aluminum bar stock for my elements.  Just drill 1/4"
holes through the widdle and lide them in.  I cut the 6m into to pieces,
placing a T connector in the middle attached to the support mast.  This
makes longest unsupported length 3'.  It's only been up about a month
so not sure about longevity but as an experimental platform it's fast
cheap and easy.  Bar stock costs me $4 per 12 ft.  PVC is $1.79 per 12',
Most expensive component is the UHF connector and coax.

I just tapped the two ends of the driven element and used nuts to lock'em
to the boom.  It took longer to model on my computer than it did to build.

Not sure how this would work on 10m but that's next on my list to tackel.

73, KE4ZOG Jay



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!delta.misha.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!multiverse!library.erc.clarkson.edu!ub!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (HENRYPOL)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: PVC booms
Date: 6 Dec 1995 16:07:49 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4a50n5$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (HENRYPOL)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Does anyone have any experience or info on using 10ft., 2 inch diameter
gray PVC (sunlight resistant) electrical conduit tubing for yagi booms for
6 or 10 meters?  Especially interested in how to attach elements and
hardware without creating cracks and/or stresses that would cause boom to
fail.


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!xyberlynx.net!zenox.com!grumpy.insinc.net!sparky.insinc.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!usenet
From: John Passaneau <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Q: Antenna impedence?
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 09:53:21 -0800
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: thing-two.phys.psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> How can I determine the impedence of an antenna at its feed point?
>
> I would like to construct a 1/2 wave dipole for the 2 meter band.
>
> Thanks,
> Jason Beens  KB0CDNTwo ways:
1- put the measuring device your using at the feed point of the antenna
   that means puting it up in the air.
2- Use a length of coax thats an multiple of a half wave length to move
   the measuring device to a easer place to reach. There may need to make
   a correcton for the loss in the coax.
John Passaneau WB8EIY, State College Pa.


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!granite.sentex.net!p15.silicon.sentex.ca!user
From: [e-mail] (Rich Fortnum)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Q: Antenna impedence?
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 10:56:27 -0400
Organization: F & M Breweries Limited
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p15.silicon.sentex.ca

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] wrote:

>How can I determine the impedence of an antenna at its feed point?
>
>I would like to construct a 1/2 wave dipole for the 2 meter band.
>
>Thanks,
>Jason Beens  KB0CDN

Get yourself a SWR meter, I believe.  It is an antenna tuner, which you
place between your antenna and tuner, so that you can match the two.

Cheers.

--
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
Rich Fortnum (aka BeeRich)
F&M Breweries
Guelph, Ontario
[e-mail] (temporary)
Renaissance Brewers of Fine Ales and Lagersü


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!INbe.net!innet.be!usenet
From: Hilde Hofkens <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Radio Vlaanderen Internationaal on-line !
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 10:00:03 +0100
Organization: iM@Gic
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.7.28.67
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (Windows; I; 32bit)

Finally the day has come : the new Website of Radio Vlaanderen
Internationaal, BRTN's world service, is on line since December 1.
The old Website was refurnished and contains a wealth of information
on RVI, its 50th anniversary, programmes, reception, International
Listeners' Club and much more.
RVI also puts you on the way to a series of interesting Websites.
Information on our Website is available in six languages : Dutch,
French, German, English, Spanish and Arabic.

Shortly you will be able to read the RVI news on our Website, or
listen to it via Real Audio.

It is worth your while to call on
http://www.brtn.be/rvi/

For more information
[e-mail]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:44 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!ub!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!in2p3.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox
From: "George L. Hiscox" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rain gutter ant. feed point?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <49qppq$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 02:44:50 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Lines: 28


[e-mail] (W. Dennis Zeares ) wrote:
>If you are going to try the rain gutter as an antenna, where would you
>feed it, top, middle, bottom....??? Let me know your ideas.

I rigged a rain gutter antenna for a friend of mine who lives in
a condo.  Used water to sink a 10' long 1/2" copper pipe into the
ground beneath the downspout.  Put a couple of solder lugs on the
end of a **SHORT** piece of coax and pop riveted the center
conductor to the downspout with the shield going to the ground.
Ran a couple of insulated wire radials along the edge of the
condo wall on top of the ground, also attached to the ground rod.

The business end of the **SHORT** (probably 10-12') coax went to
a tuner.  The rain gutter was in the configuration of an inverted
L.  The antenna was "invisible" and allowed world wide HF
communication.

73 and good luck,

George

--
| George L. Hiscox                 | Very funny Scotty... Now |
| [e-mail]               | beam down my clothes !!! |
| WA6RIK @ WB6YMH.#socal.ca.usa.na | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!southwind.net!symbios.com!csn!nntp-xfer-2.csn.net!yuma!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!fhw.ee.ubc.ca!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Dave Michelson)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RF Coverage Prediction Software?
Date: 7 Dec 1995 17:00:40 -0800
Organization: University of BC, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4a82no$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fhw.ee.ubc.ca

In recent years, several government and commercial UHF/VHF coverage
prediction software hace been introduced including:

   Comsearch
   EDX
   MSI Planet   (a special version used by Ericsson is called EET)
   NPS/X        (Nokia)
   Predict      (Industry Canada)
   Tornado      (Siemens)

There are undoubtedly others.

If you can provide me with some info (or pointers to info) on the
capabilities, price, and availability of such software, I'll summarize
the results and post them to the group.

--
Dave Michelson                             University of British Columbia
[e-mail]                              Radar Remote Sensing Group


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:46 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!psgrain!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!agis!news3.noc.netcom.net!zdc!zippo!usenet
From: Harold or Leonella Akong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rhombic design freeware
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Nntp-Posting-Host: 196.32.32.35
Organization: Zippo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Url: news:49npp9$[e-mail]
References: <49npp9$[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 01:17:33 GMT
Lines: 15

Hello Orin,

Just had a look at your posting and was wondering if you had a similar
program for the Macintosh.

In fact I am interested in any freeware for the Mac.

Just newly got on to the Internet and still learning.

Thanks and 73s

de Leon ... 9y4rl





From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.alt.net!news.redshift.com!usenet
From: "Orrin C. Winton WN1Z" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: rhombic utility:  bug fix (already!)
Date: 5 Dec 1995 00:39:37 GMT
Organization: Redshift Online Service
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4a04c9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: red115.redshift.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)


Today i posted bug-fixed versions of my RHOMBIC UTILITY
(111rhom.exe for dos, 202wrhom.exe for Win3.1) at my ftp site.

The fix allows the utility to design rhombics positioned less
than 0.26 wavelength above the ground.

site:   redshift.com
whoops that's host:  redshift.com

site:   /ftp/orrin      or /home/ftp/orrin (depends on what your
                                           ftp program sees)

login:  anonymous
passwd: your email address

See also my Web page, http://www.redshift.com/~orrin

Thanks for reading.  [e-mail]




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!News.MO.NET!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Colin Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Saturn SW2 Wagon and Antennae
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 16:50:48 GMT
Organization: -=MO.NET=- P-Net, Inc's Missouri Operations
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4a4la5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm3x1.dialip.mo.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113

Has anyone out there had experiences (good/bad/indifferent) with
mounting antennas (antennae?) to Saturn SW2 (all plastic body) wagons?
I have a Saturn SW2; I have an Icom IC-706; I have no antenna on the
car.  Any clues/hints/etc would be GREATLY appreciated!


Colin R. Wright, AA0YT
[e-mail]
http://walden.mo.net/~aa0yt



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Saturn SW2 Wagon and Antennae
Date: 7 Dec 1995 13:14:50 GMT
Organization: IONet
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4a6pca$[e-mail]>
References: <4a4la5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osip48.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: [e-mail]

For HF have a trailer hitch installed. Henry the Texas
Bugcatcher guy has mounts designed that utilize a trailer hitch
besides this is the best location to mount an HF antenna
because it allows you to use the longest antenna thereby having
a higher radiation resistance.
                73 Hank WA5JRH



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!usenet
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: SGC smartuner use w/balun?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
From: Bill Harwood <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:57:12 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (NAWS news admin)
References: <49j6an$[e-mail]>
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
To: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-Url: news:49j6an$[e-mail]
Lines: 15

Try some ferrite beads (al la Radio Shack or MFJ) at both ends of the
SGC-230 to radio cable (coax plus power) or some fairly tight loops in
the cable.  If the COAX is near resonnate length the RF bite on the
shield can be real bad.  The bite will also affect the SGC's tuning
behavior.

Good luck

  \------------------------------------------------------/
   \  Bill Harwood           U play it, I'll dance it   /
    \ AB6DY                         or                 /
     \                      I'll play it, U dance it  /
      \----------------------------------------------/




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: snr for am tv ?
Date: 3 Dec 1995 18:24:22 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <49sq0m$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

  For broadcast TV, snr in the 60 dB range is excellent, in the 50's is
quite good, in the 40's is getting noisy, in the 30's is getting snowy.
For amateur fast scan work, a high contrast picture will still be visible
in a whole lot of noise, maybe down to 10 dB s/n or less, but detail will
be hopelessly lost.


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.rmit.EDU.AU!goanna.cs.rmit.EDU.AU!core.apana.org.au!usenet
From: [e-mail] (P Dettmann)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: Re: Source of silver plated wire ?
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 21:34:47 GMT
Organization: Australian Public Access Network Association
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4a2ah6$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: suburbia.apana.org.au
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17476 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11882

[e-mail] (Wassell, James T.,  Ph.D.) wrote:
>use silver plated no. 10 or no. 8 wire.  Does anyone know where to buy

        I find easiest is to get the wire and take it to silver platers (see
in phone book)

                                        Peter Dettmann




From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!utnut!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!PC-Hudak1-J.imr.McMaster.CA!hudakjm
From: [e-mail] (John Hudak)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew
Subject: Re: Source of silver plated wire ?
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:04:59
Organization: Institute for Materials Research
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4a2ah6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-hudak1-j.imr.mcmaster.ca
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17505 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11930

Wire with teflon insulation is silver plated.  Apparently they can't put the
teflon directly on to the copper without silver plating it first.





From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:53 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.encore.com!dmobley
From: [e-mail] (Dennis Mobley)
Subject: Stacking CC 13b2 2m Ants
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:08:22 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Nntp-Posting-Host: maxis.encore.com
Lines: 15

Hello all....

A friend has 2 CushCraft 13b2 and wishes to stack them.
CC sells a "PowerDivider" for such operations that looks
like a coax tee, two 1/4 wave lengths of 75ohm coax and
two connectors.

The primary use will be 2 meter SSB operations.

We are open to any ideas or suggestions.

Thank you in advance
Dennis Mobley KT4FI
Sunrise, Fl.
[e-mail]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:54 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!NewsWatcher!user
From: [e-mail] (Henry Baker)
Subject: Stupid transmission line problem
Message-ID: <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: nil organization
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:59:09 GMT
Lines: 9
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17492 sci.physics.electromag:7180

The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead,
shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about
'twisted pair'.  Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as
twin-lead?  I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature
of the transmission line?

--
www/ftp directory:
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:55 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.zynet.com!fg1.plk.af.mil!lynx.unm.edu!SantaFe!usenet
From: Jim Potter <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:59:16 -0700
Organization: JP Accelerator Works, Inc.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial131.roadrunner.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (WinNT; I)
To: Henry Baker <[e-mail]>
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17499 sci.physics.electromag:7185

Henry Baker wrote:
>
> The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead,
> shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about
> 'twisted pair'.  Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as
> twin-lead?  I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature
> of the transmission line?
>
> --
> www/ftp directory:
> ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html

Close enough.  The impedance and velocity can be calculated from
the capacitance per unit length and the dielectric contstant.
However, it's somewhat like stripline in that the fields exist
in two regions with different dieletric constants.  A rough rule
of thumb for twisted pair is that the impedance is about 100
ohms.  This seems reasonable, since the conductors are much more
closely spaced than for twinlead and the impedance goes
approximately like the logarithm of the dimensions (e.g. spacing
over wire diameter).

Presumably you're are not using twisted pair where precision is
important.

Jim

--
James M. Potter, President      E-mail: [e-mail]
JP Accelerator Works, Inc.      URL: www.jpaw.com/jpaw/
2245 47th Street                Voice: 505-662-5804
Los Alamos, NM 87544-1604       FAX: [phone]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:57 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!chaos.aoc.nrao.edu!newshost.nmt.edu!baervan.nmt.edu!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!news.zynet.com!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!swidir.switch.ch!CERN.ch!dxcern.cern.ch!jeroen
From: [e-mail] (Jeroen Belleman)
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: dxcern.cern.ch
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: CERN European Laboratory for Particle Physics
References: <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 07:41:52 GMT
Lines: 16
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17503 sci.physics.electromag:7188

In article <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>,
Henry Baker <[e-mail]> wrote:
>The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead,
>shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about
>'twisted pair'.  Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as
>twin-lead?  I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature
>of the transmission line?

That is indeed what I found when I measured it. Twisting has no
significant effect on the characteristic impedance of the line,
provided the twisting does not actually change the spacing between
the wires.

Best regards,
Jeroen Belleman
[e-mail]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:06:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Alfred Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: 6 Dec 1995 20:15:35 -0800
Organization: KAIWAN Internet (310-527-4279,818-756-0180,909-785-9712,714-638-4133,805-294-9338)
Lines: 58
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17504 sci.physics.electromag:7189

In article <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>,
[e-mail] (Henry Baker) wrote:
> The books that I've read on transmission line theory talk about twin-lead,
> shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but I've never seen anything about
> 'twisted pair'.  Should I presume that twisted pair works the same way as
> twin-lead?  I.e., the twist itself has no essential effect on the nature
> of the transmission line?
>
> --
> www/ftp directory:
> ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html

I happened to have a book handy that have *ONE* page on twisted pairs:
'The Design of Impedance-Matching Networks For Radio-Frequency And
Microwave Amplifiers.'  by Pieter L.D. Abrie, published by Artech House,
Inc.

Excerpt from page 65:

Transmission lines with a wide range of characteristic impedances can be
realized by twisting lengths of wire together.

The characteristic impedances of these twisted-pair lines decrease when
thicker wire is used.  For example, the characteristic impedance is 35
ohm when No. 20 (AWG) enamel-insulated wire with 3 twists per centimeter
is used and 120 ohm when No. 30 vinyl-coated wire (0.05 cm outside
diameter) with 3.6 twists per centimeter is used.

Increasing the number of twists per centimeter also decreases the
characteristic impedance of these transmission lines.  For example, the
characteristic impedance obtained by twisting two No. 20 enamel-
insulated wires together decreases from approximately 42 ohm to 30 ohm
when the number of twists is doubled from two to four.

A line with 50 ohm characteristic impedance can be obtained by twisting
two No. 22 enamel-insulated wires together to have twists per
centimeter.

Characteristic impedances lower than 10 ohm are often required in the HF
range.  These impedances can be realized by twisting together many wires
(using two-wire lines) with smaller diameters.

It is difficult to calculate the losses in these transmission lines
because the dielectric losses, skin efect, proximity effect, and the
fact that the current is flowing in both directions along the line must
be taken into account.  It is, therefore, easier to determine the
attenuation of these lines practically.

The losses in twisted-wire transmission lines are usually not a prblem
below 100 MHz.

Sorry, no proofreading.

73,

---
Alfred Lee                                                       [e-mail]
KE6KGV           'The answer is (e^iπ + 1) ? "No" : "Yes"'


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:00 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.physics.electromag
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!daffy!uwvax!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.midplains.net!gw2.att.com!oucsboss!bobcat!kinsler
From: [e-mail] (Mark Kinsler )
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
X-Nntp-Posting-Date: Thu Dec  7 01:14:16 1995
Organization: Ohio University, College of Engineerng & Technology
References: <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:14:17 GMT
Lines: 15
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17535 sci.physics.electromag:7207

In article <hbaker-0612950759090001@10.0.2.15>, Henry Baker
<[e-mail]> wrote: >The books that I've read on transmission line
theory talk about twin-lead, >shielded twin-lead, coax & waveguides, but
I've never seen anything about >'twisted pair'.  Should I presume that
twisted pair works the same way as >twin-lead?  I.e., the twist itself has
no essential effect on the nature >of the transmission line? > >--

The telephone companies are the mother church of twisted-pair lines.  The
twist is there to reduce crosstalk between pairs of lines.  In a
telephone cable containing, say, 3000 pairs, each will have a
characteristic twist to minimize crosstalk.  I think that within the
practical range of twists, the impedance stays a pretty consistent 600
ohms, though.
                                Mark Kinsler



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TOPBAND/160m Mail Reflector?
Date: 2 Dec 1995 13:11:43 -0500
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <49q4sv$[e-mail]>
References: <49mslk$[e-mail]> <49o782$[e-mail]> <49porh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Joe Subich ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In <49o782$[e-mail]>, Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]> writes:
: >
: >PLease post this, if you get it, Jeff. I'd love to subscribe, too.
: >

: The Topband reflector is:

:        [e-mail]

: Administrative traffic (subscription, etc.) should go to:

:        [e-mail]

: To subscribe send an e-mail message containing the single line "subscribe"
: in the text to "[e-mail]."   Further information is
: available by sending an e-mail message containing the single line "info"
: to the same address.

:     ... Joe Subich, AD8I
:        ([e-mail])

Thanks, Joe, for the email. I got registered OK last night.

The "info" function appears to be non-functional, and the "Welcome"
message received acknowledging my subscription was devoid of the
information on how to use the reflector (which was introduced in the
message). Looks like a file is missing at frontier.net.

Thanks again for the information, all!

73,
--
Jeff Maass                     NW of Columbus Ohio      Amateur Radio K8ND
USPSA/IPSC # L-1192   NROI/CRO


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:02 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dimensional.com!winternet.com!news.minn.net!skypoint.com!umn.edu!dialup-5-161.gw.umn.edu!user
From: [e-mail] (Jack Ray)
Subject: un-guyed masts
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Administration)
Nntp-Posting-Host: dialup-5-161.gw.umn.edu
Organization: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 14:36:09 GMT
Lines: 22

I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed
antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave
ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy
wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles
and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy
these, how long is practical and what do they cost?

What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a
pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but
still quite strong?

What about aluminum poles?  How tall could a 1.5▓ un-guyed aluminum be and
still give reasonable wind performance?

Finally, what about a wooden mast made of ash?

Other suggestions?

Thanks,

Jack
N╪ZKA


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:04 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.luc.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!kgkmac.repoc.nwu.edu!user
From: [e-mail] (Kenneth Kalan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 13:43:45 -0600
Organization: Northwestern University
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kgkmac.repoc.nwu.edu

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Jack Ray) wrote:

>I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed
>antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave
>ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy
>wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles
>and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy
>these, how long is practical and what do they cost?
>
Snip

I'm not sure how high you want to go but here's what I did.  I bought an
ROHM 10' tripod along with a 10' mast.  Mounted the tripod on the roof
which with the mask brings the base of the antenna about 17.5' above the
roof level or about the same as having a small 30 - 35' tower in the
yard.  My antenna is about 10' tall which puts the tip around 27' above
roof level.  I was toying around with the idea of adding another 10' mask
to my system.  I feel it could handle it, the tripod is quite sturdy and
about 2.5' of mask goes into the tripod.  Not sure if I'll do it since
everything works well, I would be qurious if the extra 10' would really
gain me anything.

BTW my antenna is a Commet CX333 tri band vertical.

Ken

-------------------------------------------------------- _----
Kenneth Kalan     PP ASEL                    ===_      /  |
Northwestern University               | ___/[__ ] \___/__ |
Prosthetics Research Laboratory       |\__ _|___|_____===/
Rehabilitation Engineering Program      |    \/
[e-mail]       N9YIR                 o     O
Civil Air Patrol, 2LT,1st Lyons Composite Squadron - Red Fox 407
Melrose Park RACES  1M64    Skywarn Weather Spotter
               http://kgkmac.repoc.nwu.edu/
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will
not bite you.  This is the principal difference between a dog
and a man.      -- Mark Twain
--------------------------------------------------------------


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.Edu.TW!news.cc.nctu.edu.tw!serv.HiNet.net!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary McDuffie, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 03:46:06 GMT
Organization: AG0N's Radio Ranch
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.206.239.252
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

On Wed, 6 Dec 1995 14:36:09 GMT, [e-mail] (Jack Ray) wrote:

> I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave
> ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy
> wires above the house.

No offense meant, but I am always amazed by statements like that.  If you are
a ham, how does she expect you to participate in your hobby without antennas?
Sounds like time to switch either the wife or the hobby!  Were you married
first, or a ham first?  Did she not agree to you becoming a ham, assuming you
might have married before getting your license?  With ham radio comes
antennas, all kinds, all sizes.  If you are having trouble with a simple mast
to elevate a 2m gp, just think what would happen if you tried to put up a
tower and a real antenna for HF.

> I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles
> and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy
> these, how long is practical and what do they cost?

I don't think they would be very suitable for permanent antennas, but there
was a company at Dayton several years ago that had telescopic fiberglass poles
that went up some thirty feet, if I remember right.  Perhaps the bottom
section of one of those would be stiff enough for permanent installation, but
I doubt it would be over 10 feet long.  Even a metal mast, if unguyed, is
going to be "whippy" in the wind, at least in the kind of wind we get in my
area.  Fifty MPH is common this time of year and we've had several of those
days in the last month and a half.

Good luck with the antenna.  By the way, if you don't need long haul coverage,
you might want to take a look at the Ventenna.  I can't speak for performance,
but it mounts on your vent pipe and requires no other supports (guys).
  __              _   __  __
 / _ _ _    __   /_| / _ /  )/| )
(__)(// (/      (  |(__)(__// |/
        /
[e-mail]


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:57:03 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <4a72qd$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip27.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Jack Ray) wrote:

>I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed
>antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave
>ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy
>wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles
>and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy
>these, how long is practical and what do they cost?

>What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a
>pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but
>still quite strong?

>What about aluminum poles?  How tall could a 1.5▓ un-guyed aluminum be and
>still give reasonable wind performance?

>Finally, what about a wooden mast made of ash?

>Other suggestions?

>Thanks,

>Jack
>N╪ZKA
FWIW:  I have a 50 foot push-up pole, with a 10 foot mast on top that
holds a 6-meter ringo.  30 feet up from the ground I have a 3 halfwave
2 meter mirrored-J out 6 feet from the mast and a 3 halfwave 440
mirrored-J 5 feet out from the mast held by hose clams to the mast and
supported from under the ringo with small guys.

We took the guys off the pole during a tree removal from my yard and
they were never replaced.  Even in the high winds that come through it
has stood solid.

The mast is mounted on a 1/2 inch horseshoe pole driven into the
ground and attatched at the eave of the house with pipe-strap.  No
other support or guys.

Gary - KG0ZP





From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Which HF Vertical
Date: 3 Dec 1995 11:06:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 75
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <49shuv$[e-mail]>
References: <49ponv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:

>Steve I would differ with you on this. Generally what you say is true,
but as
>one raises
>the feedpoint of a vertical it becomes more effecient. Granted a
>common-garden-variety
>type vertical like my real old 14 AVQ shouldn't be used without radials
but
>some verticals
>are designed with an elevated feedpoint  so as to do away with radials.
The
>ideal case in
>point would be a dipole, made half wave length, tilted on its side. One
would
>NOT want to
>put radials on such an antenna. The gap works on the elevated feedpoint
>principle. Read
>some of the stuff Kurt N Sterba says in WorldRadio about this.
>Anybody see any holes in what I say here?
>Peace
>WB0FDJ

Hi Mr. WB0FDJ,

I disagree with that. Contrary to what Mr. "Sterba" thinks, he does make
errors. Let me explain the flaw in the theory he supported.

Feedpoint location is not directly related to efficiency. Major changes in
efficiency, in an antenna of given length and conductor loss, come from
changes in current distribution and level.

We know antennas radiate the strongest EM field from the current maxima,
but they also radiate from any area that has current flow. That radiation
causes electrons to flow in any conductor in the area of the antenna (and
even throughout the universe)! The only thing that stops the efect is
shieding or cancellation  by having an exactly equal and opposite
"movement".

Let's look at the GAP. The hype is that the "elevated gap radiates, and
keeps the radiation far above the earth". The gap doesn't radiate, the
current displacement does. A base fed half wave vertical has a gap at the
base, yet it radiates primarily from the center! A pair of stacked 1/2
waves called "two half waves in phase" has a gap in the middle, but the
main radiated field comes from the unbroken center of each half!

The current maxima of the GAP isn't even at the feedpoint (gap), because
it is an asymetrical vertical. And ground losses are identical to what
they would be if the conductor was broken and fed ANYWHERE in the
structure! It's all hype. (Instead of a lightning bolt leaping from the
"gap" it should be a little tiny spark. ;-) )

For a given vertical radiator length under 1/2 wl, maximum efficiency
always occurs if the radiator is worked against a good ground system.
Especially if the current is as large as possible over the entire length
of the radiating structure. That's why the Uni-hat blew the GASH away in a
test with real FS meters, and why a ground mounted vertical with a modest
radial system got much better reports in QST's review. My ground mounted
MFJ quarter wave and a Butternut with radials both killed a GAP here (I've
done the A-B tests). They even mis-apply an IEEE paper about an
asymetrical BC band vertical 1/2 wl tall that was fed against six full
length radials 1/4 wl above earth at the feedpoint. That doesn't look
anything like the GAP, yet they quote the conclusion of that veryticals
performance in their ads!  Hype, hype, hype.

If you can't have radials, and need a vertical, use a groundless vertical.
It'll get you on the air. If you can put in a modest ground, use a regular
vertical. You'll be much louder. That goes for ALL groundless verticals,
not just the Gash.

I agree fully with Steve Miller. Ole "Kurt" is in orbit on this one.

73, Tom



From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:09 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: YAGIMAX2 problem
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:57:17 GMT
Lines: 11
Sender: [e-mail]

I was trying to use YAGIMAX2 to design a 4-element antenna for FM
reception at 105Mhz.  Apparently the program does not accept a frequency
input and produce a design.  So I thought I would put in some
"reasonable" values and tweak from there.  I put in 4 elements spaced 1
foot apart.  The reflector was 3 feet, the drive element 2.8 feet, and
the 2 directors 2.6 and 2.4 feet.  A graphic picture shows something
which looks like the intended design.  The polar plot shows a gain of 2db
with little or no front-to-back ratio.  Other program options give the
message "something is totally screwed up" with no explanation.  Are the
values I put in so unrealistic the program cannot run?  Or is this a bug
in the program?


From Unknown Fri Dec 08 19:07:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help needed on city fm broadcast reception"
Date: 7 Dec 95 16:05:40 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "needed" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:27 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wariat.org!news
From: (Tripp)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 10 meter vertical
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 01:54:42 GMT
Organization: APK - Internet Provider for Ohio.
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4aaflo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: m09.cannet.com

What is a good vertical for 10 meters ?  I'm using a Hust. 4btv but
want to go to monoband ten meter vertical.



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (David M. Arruzza )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160 meter top loaded designs
Date: 11 Dec 1995 21:54:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4ai9b2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nhv-ct1-01.ix.netcom.com

CQ CQ CQ TO ALL RADIO AMATEURS....

LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON TOP LOADED VERTICALS OPERATING IN THE 160
METER BAND..ONLY PRESENT DESIGN CRITERIA IS THAT THE VERTICAL ELEMENT
NOT EXCEED 50' IN LENGTH...WOULD RATHER HAVE PROVEN DESIGNS NOT WHAT
YOU THINK WILL WORK...ALSO INTERESTED IN CONSTRUCTION DETAILS FOR THE
"MINOOKA SPECIAL" VERTICAL THAT HAS BEEN USED ON MANY DXPEDITIONS
OPERATING ON 160 LATELY.

73 AND SEASONS GREETINGS FROM WA1UUD @ RADIO RIDGE ANSONIA CT 160-10
METERS SSB/CW ALL BAREFOOT...48 STATES WORKED ON 160 ONLY NEED KL7 AND
MISSISSIPPI...

DAVE


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.usa.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Doug Shock)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 160m dipole
Date: 13 Dec 1995 05:07:13 GMT
Organization: Internet Express (800-592-1240 customer service)
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4aln21$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: port22.cos1-annex.usa.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14

I would like to erect a dipole for DX'ing on 80 and 160. Kinda new at all
this and don't have much time to experiment. I have read some on the
L-dipole thru this group. anyone like to offer some tips and or advice I
would sure appreciate it.
73's AA0UF Doug



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.supernet.net!news.cais.net!wb3ffv!blkcat.blkcat.com!f41.n109.z1.fidonet.org!f42.n109.z1.fidonet.org!fforum.blkcat.com!not-for-mail
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:38:00 +0000
From: [e-mail] (Richard Sanford)
Subject: 2-meter HT antennas
Message-ID: <NOMSGID_1=3A109=[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: Net 109 Fidonet<->Internet gateway
Lines: 20
X-Gateway: FIDOGATE 3.9.3

I have a couple of end-driven half-wave dipoles which
seem to be about as good as the 5/8 wave mag mount on
my truck, but they are awkwardly long for handheld use.
I also have several rubber duckies, the best of which
is a 10.5" Larson.  I notice that 1 watt into either
half-wave puts out a better signal than 2.5 watts into
the Larsen.  Why?  What is so difficult about making
a short antenna that will radiate efficiently at 2 m?

For the same voltage on the ends of 2 antennas of
different lengths, the shorter one will have less
dipole strength and radiate less.  But I would think
that the shorter one could be equipped with tuning
and voltage transforming components that would raise
the voltage on the ends of the antenna until it would
radiate as much power as the half-wave.  Is someone
building such an antenna?  Is there some reason why
it can't work?

 * SLMR 2.1a * Remember Waco.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2-meter HT antennas
Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:10:14 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4am59m$[e-mail]>
References: <NOMSGID_1=3A109=[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

First the full size half wave has the advantage of producing a horizontally
sqashed radiation pattern, giving some directivity. More important, a short
antenna requires a higher current to radiate the same amount of power,
(a lower radiation resistance). The higher current also means higher
resistive losses in the antenna.

73, Moritz DL5UH

> * SLMR 2.1a * Remember Waco.




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2.2GHz dish feed for 10GHz....posibble???
Date: 9 Dec 1995 12:47:27 -0500
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4aci3f$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ns5-1.cc.lehigh.edu

Hello, i picked up a 2.2 GHz dish over the summer from a hamfest.  not only is
it not for the 2.3gig band, but its about 4 times heavyer then the dish i have.
can i use it for 10GHz work?

thanks

DAvid
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|         David Roseman       |          [e-mail]       OUTTA ORDER!
|                             |          Saucon Valley Sen. HS   |      |
|      SysOp of NODE 3 BBS    |          The Flying HAm - BBS    |      |
|     Running OBV/2 Software  |          Technomage - BBS        |      |
|                             |          N3SQE/1     - HAm       V      |
|                             |  [e-mail] - Packet  |


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet
From: Danie Brynard <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2.2GHz dish feed for 10GHz....posibble???
Date: 11 Dec 1995 07:54:44 GMT
Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4ago44$[e-mail]>
References: <4aci3f$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net-6.pta.pix.za
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

Probably if you have a 10GHz feed of course. The higher the
frequency the more accurate the parabolic curve should be machined.

73



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news.lth.se!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Peter Rojsel)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 70cm Helix Question....HELP!
Date: 12 Dec 1995 16:55:43 GMT
Organization: MAX-lab
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <4akc6f$[e-mail]>
References: <49clkg$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peter.maxlab.lu.se
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
says...

>In Jasik's Antenna book, he describes a 4 helix array with each helix having
a
>feed point impedance of 130 Ohms. He uses a tapered line match which from
the
>rough diagram in the book looks like a constant width, tapered spacing line.
>The idea is to transform to 200 Ohms and join all the feeders at a single
>point to get 50 Ohms.
>
>I tried this at 1800 MHz with disappointing results. I don't know what the
>geometry of the feed point is supposed to be to give 130 Ohms. I see
>references here to 50 Ohms and 90-100 Ohms. Are these dependant on the
>particular helix or the size of the hole in the backplane or what?

A helical antenna has a natural feedpoint impedance of 150 ohms. This is a
very resistive impedance over at least an octave in frequency.
I have designed and built a helical antenna for 2400MHz. The performance is
about 15dB gain. The tricky part of the helical antenna design is the
matching to the 50 ohm feedline. I have used a quarter wavelength
transformer. This I made out of the inner conductor of the feedline coax and
a piece of copper tubing acting as the outer conductor. However this was not
sufficient to exactly match the 150 ohms to 50 ohms so I had to apply a
little trick to the antenna itself. I took a 1 by 2 cm copper plate and
soldered to a suitable point of the helix itself. A suitable point is in my
case somewhere between the feedpoint and halfway down the first turn of the
helix.
Of course I had access to professional instruments such as a HP network
analyzer so I could measure the reflections from the antenna feedline.
The hole in the reflector is on one antenna I made equal to the diameter of
the copper tube mentioned above, which is roughly 15mm and on another antenna
I made equal to the diameter of the helix. The antennas perform equally well
and has similar data.
The tapered line variety is probably an attempt to make the impedance
transformation broadband, but this is extremely difficult to do. I tried some
variety of it and failed. The quarterwave transformer gave me a 3dB bandwidth
of about 100MHz. The antenna covers most of the 13cm band here. The fine
tuning with the piece of copper gives a reflection of about -15dB when
properly adjusted. The placement of the copper plate also tunes the center
frequency of the antenna match.

Hopes this helps
Peter Rojsel
SM7LEK
[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:35 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail
From: Anthony J Wanschura <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 10 Dec 1995 09:44:10 -0700
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4af2oq$[e-mail]>
X-Posted-By: ip211.msp.primenet.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

To those having experience with inverted-L antennas on 80 and 160
meters, what are your recommendations for radials? Should they be
elevated, on the ground? What feedpoint impedence should I expect for a
1/4 wave inverted-L?

Please reply directly to [e-mail].
Thanks




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 11 Dec 1995 09:15:39 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aheeb$[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4af2oq$[e-mail]>, Anthony J Wanschura
<[e-mail]> writes:

>To those having experience with inverted-L antennas on 80 and 160
>meters, what are your recommendations for radials? Should they be
>elevated, on the ground? What feedpoint impedence should I expect for a
>1/4 wave inverted-L?
>
>

Hi Anthony,
I've used dozens of L's on 160 over the years (since 1962), and so have
many of my close friends.

The best L's seem to be a resonant 1/4 wl on 160, but that makes 'em a
little harder to feed on 80. The 3/8 wl 160 L's seem to have a little less
signal on 160, but are much easier to feed on 80.

We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the ground
is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no difference. But
the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is very important, plus
keeping the antenna in the clear if you can.

My friend K8GIJ used to be almost as loud as I was with a 60' L on a small
city lot, and I was in the country with a full size 1/4 wave tower. He
filled his small back yard with straight copper radials, and since they
were short he tied them into fences, pipes and every other large metallic
object. People used to accuse him of running high power after he worked
hard on his ground system.

Most antenna books give the feedpoint impedance data you are looking for.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!news.net99.net!science!news
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:59:09 GMT
Organization: Science Network
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4agdf0$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <49ponv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.198.110.25
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55

[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>Hi Russ,
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (Russ Ellsworth) writes:

>>MIKE,Tom that depends on what you are trying to achieve. What is good
>>enough??
<snip>
>Ahhh, that's my interest. All the elevated data is based on NEC models
>alone. I can't find a single real world verification by actual field
>strength. Stuff like this keeps me from stealing hubcaps for a living!
>73 Tom

I need to add a comment.  Don't think 120 radials is a religeous
number.  The FCC required that number for broadcast stations eons ago
so that they could ensure advertisers were getting what they paid for:
efficiency + specified power + pattern = coverage objective.

In practical terms, shoot for 60% to 80% efficiency, which GENERALLY
falls in the range of 16 to 30 radials with a reasonable distance.
Beyond that number the law of dimenishing returns comes in.  At that
point it is far more preferable to increase power for the same effect.

KM5L
Patrick Bouldin          :    Gig 'em!   TAMU '83
214/218-6000             :
TeleTeam Internet        :    ARS KM5L _ _ ...    ..._ _
[e-mail] :



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!upei.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (David  C. Seeler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought - Couterpoises and ground Radials ?
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 08:44:32 GMT
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1>
References: <[e-mail]> <491qio$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mike_cash-2911950740030001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141


>In article <mike_cash-2911950740030001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>,
>[e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS) wrote:
>
>> In article <[e-mail]>,
>> [e-mail] (Russ Ellsworth) wrote:
>>
>> > snip....
>> > > (based on NEC models) that claims four elevated radials are sufficent or
>> > > equal to 120 radials on the ground. Two commercial broadcast station
>> > > proofs and my own measurements indicate four elevated radials are 5 to 7
>> > > dB down from 120 radials on the surface of the ground.
>> > >
>> > Tom, this sounds pretty good as evidence that the elevated radial theory
>> > is pretty well justified.  If I can put up 4 radials and come within one s
>> > unit of 120 radials, I will do it every time.
>
>    SNIP
>>


I seem to remember that a while back - Forrest Gehrke indicated that
there were errors in the original paper that claimed that 60 raised
counterpoise radials were equivalent to 120 radials on/in the ground.
I seem to remember that he claimed that the error was there but that
the information was being accepted by the various publishers and that
it "now carries the aura of truth". (Dec 1991 email in
rec.radio.amateur.misc - yes a while back  :-))

At the time Ed Hare indicated that he would talk to Forrest re this
and make the appropriate changes to ARRL pubs in the future. Not sure
what happened then

Regards, DAve Seeler, VY2DCS

Regards,
David Seeler, VY2DCS


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 19:35:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4accp8$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 29


WT> 2.) The data provided was flawed. When currents in individual
WT> radials at the common point were totaled, the radial currents did
WT> not equal the net current at the base of the radiator. This is a
WT> violation of Kirkoff's laws. This violation proves gross measurement
WT> or equipment errors existed in the data.

Doty first published this nonsense in QST Feb.1983 with a
great fanfare from the editors about solving a mystery
of 60 years.  The data had the same flaw, undoubtedly due
to the RF generator being grounded, thereby providing a
ground connection for the missing current.

I wrote to QST at the time and received back a comment from
Gus Hall that unequal current (currents in center lead of the
driving coax and sheath did not correspond) was not exceptional.
He'd seen this many times in balanced 600 ohm lines.  He sent
a copy of my letter to Doty and I received a tirade from him
but no explanation for the unequal current readings.

Spent most of his words telling me of his vast experience and
how long he'd been a ham.  On that score he had nothing on me
as I've held a license since 1936. I wasn't impressed. ;-)

Nevertheless, Doty got an award from the Radio Club of America
for this outstanding(!) work.  They couldn't do arithmetic either.

--k2bt
 * RM 1.3 02583 * Hell's full. The damned are now working in Tech Support.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Date: 13 Dec 1995 13:23:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 2
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4an5n3$[e-mail]>
References: <4ammp8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

What's wrong with the server, yours or mine? That was supposed to be a
privite E-mail. ooops


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:08:40 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 45
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ammp8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Forrest
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) writes:

>
>Doty first published this nonsense in QST Feb.1983 with a
>great fanfare from the editors about solving a mystery
>of 60 years.  The data had the same flaw, undoubtedly due
>to the RF generator being grounded, thereby providing a
>ground connection for the missing current.

Gosh, someone else caught that error. I wrote also. The response I got was
that was because the radials weren't collecting ground currentrs or some
such non-sense. It amazes me that people without a basic understanding of
how an antenna works try to re-write standards, and that editors fail to
catch obvious errors!

>I wrote to QST at the time and received back a comment from
>Gus Hall that unequal current (currents in center lead of the
>driving coax and sheath did not correspond) was not exceptional.
>He'd seen this many times in balanced 600 ohm lines.

So have I, it's called common mode or parallel feedline currents. It
causes the feedline to become another part of the system that radiates.
You should have asked if a feedline *without* equal and opposite currents
radiates or becomes part of the radiating antenna. I bet he would have
flunked the test.

>He sent
>a copy of my letter to Doty and I received a tirade from him
>but no explanation for the unequal current readings.
>Spent most of his words telling me of his vast experience and
>how long he'd been a ham.  On that score he had nothing on me
>as I've held a license since 1936. I wasn't impressed. ;-)

I received a similar response, along with a claim that I was the only one
who didn't understand the meaning of the article.

>Nevertheless, Doty got an award from the Radio Club of America
>for this outstanding(!) work.  They couldn't do arithmetic either.

Oh well. Be honest now. Anyone that makes 10,000 meaningless measurements
deserves an award. Perhaps in the form of a rolled up pointed paper hat?

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue!oitnews.harvard.edu!das-news2.harvard.edu!fas-news.harvard.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Shawn M. Winnie)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: AM Improvement?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 18:06:04 GMT
Organization: Shott Capital Management
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4ahrub$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slippp2-10.fas.harvard.edu

 I recall seeing a small, relatively cheap mutual inductor coil for improving
 AM reception in some specialty catalog.  Since I now live in Boston and would
 really like to pull in WJR (760 kHz-Detroit), I'd be willing to drop a few
 dollars on a canned solution.  (My wife has already nixed the idea of winding
 a two foot ferric core...)

 If anyone knows of such availability for such a device, I'd appreciate
 hearing about it.  (May not help, though, I think there's a 1kW station
 on 760 kHz on a mountain right between me and the Fisher building.)

 ***********************************************************************
 Shawn M. Winnie                                   [phone] (Home)
 Shott Capital Management                          [phone] (@SCM)
 This message should not be construed as representing the position or
 opinion of Shott Capital Management.  The Microsoft Network is granted
 a non-exclusive license to re-distribute the above material.  Doesn't
 look like it matters after all....


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Richard Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Another MFJ control shaft broken - mfj.jpg (0/1)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:13:30 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsb-oc-05.earthlink.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

Is there anyone else who has had the shaft of their antenna tuner
break.  I have a MfJ Differential T Tuner Mod. 986, and the shaft from
the roller inductor broke at the race where the bearing go.  I was
wondering if this was an isolated event or is it the reason they
changed the design of this part.  I have included an attachment with a
picture of the break.  Please Email me at [e-mail].
-Richard, KB6CEA


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Richard Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Another MFJ control shaft broken - mfj.jpg (1/1)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:13:31 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Lines: 169
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsb-oc-05.earthlink.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

begin 644 mfj.jpg
M_]C_X``02D9)1@`!`0```0`!``#_VP!#``@&!@<&!0@'!P<)"0@*#!0-#`L+
M#!D2$P\4'1H?'AT:'!P@)"XG("(L(QP<*#<I+#`Q-#0T'R<Y/3@R/"XS-#+_
MVP!#`0D)"0P+#!@-#1@R(1PA,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R
M,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C(R,C+_P``1"`(R`R`#`2(``A$!`Q$!_\0`
M&P`!``(#`0$```````````````8'!`4(`P+_Q`!($`$``00!`P$%`P<&"PD!
M`````0(#!!$%!A(A,0<3(D%1%#)A%R-"5G&!D14WI+&STP@D,S9B=8.$H;*T
M%E1CDJ+!PM+A\/_$`!8!`0$!```````````````````!`O_$`!@1`0$!`0$`
M```````````````!$4%A_]H`#`,!``(1`Q$`/P#2]"<GC]1\/WW>*Q+>=P>)
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M7[/Q>[IG4[\>D:GTF(_#TF`>-/LS[:HG^5Y\3OQCZG_F2*]R=OB^>KQ[VYC+
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MW5VNJBW5<F)MUZICOIJFJN/=?A&HGQ&@6G[(+./8]EO#6\3*^U6*??\`;>]W
M-'=^?N;^&?,>=Q^Y.&DZ1P;W'=+X>)?R*LB[;[]W*J::9JW75/I3$1\]>(;L
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````'`#==.<S:XGD\:]ETW;F/8FY713:[=Q773%,SY]?
M$1XW'U_"9OUETST7T[T5]GQOM5SGJ;U,49ERN8^T:GXX]WN:::8B=_6)B([I
MWYK2N_$Y47[5BU9B)B:;=,351&OPKF=_LG8+GXKKCB*L^U9P^1IF]<JB*::K
M=5/=/TW53KSZ.AN(NS>X7`NS&IKQ[=4Q'RW3$N#'</1%RN[T#TY<N5U5UU\7
MC55553N9F;5.YF0;X`!'>4YG%IZHXKCO?6XJMW*[MZ:IU[N?=513&_3SW3_P
M^J1*<ZXX/%P.LHR\2]DT179][7CTW9]U3<JF8FKM_93'CTB9F8B)G8))UCU+
M8Y#`KP.(NQ>NQ,]]SW<U6X\3'KN)J_=Z_*4:YG%SNI^F<KCLKEJL?W.+75;B
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M?Z)_S0P?]I_:5)``````````````````````````````````````````````
M```````````````````````````````````"K.J.M,&KB>7PLVJU/%7,:Y:J
M[J/$1.XB(FF?74QK7S]/+E?'Q[^7?IL8UFY>O5_=MVZ9JJJ_9$,C-Y;D.1W&
M9FW[U,U]_977,TQ/UBGTCUGT2;V:\-R/(=78F1B_RCC8]GWO?R&'9FK[/5[N
MK4S5J::8W,1._E((OA<;G\E7-&#A9.55$Q$TV+55<QOT](_"79/3G+\=T_T)
MPF/RN?C8M[$XS'HR+=R['=;FFU3%6XCTUJ7(]'4F9/*VKUW/Y2K#BY1-RU7F
MUUUU41KNCNCM]?/T_P#=UETCTSTWE]-<-S'_`&?X^,O*PK-^;MVS%Z[$UVZ=
MQ[RN)JGQ.O,@^I]IG3EVB*N.N9?*[K[(CCL:O(JF=;GQ3&_$/;)YCJ3+B:^)
MX6JBUZ?XY3%NN)^?B:X_#Y)4`U_#VN5M8MR.7OV+U^;DS3-F-4TT:C4>D?/?
M\53>V"[P_$=18W,9UN_<S+6-3-F+=4SVTS5715,4[BGYT[F?PC>]0NES]_A`
M9.-C]5\#&9%W[/5C5S<FSJ:YB*]Q3JKX9B:NV9BJ)^[`(AQ?4G4L\GTYDX4W
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M)[HU\X^GG^"/<?U!R73')SQ7-1[RQO<7/,ZB?G3/SI__`'\6TY[@NF\JYBTU
MU4X-_)HJFQ=LTQ315K7WH]/THGY3/U!L8ZNX'([K-69';5\/FF=5;\?)#*\7
M$CF>7Q\"+-SCLC"O6Z:*M3W[M3$TQ$^9\S,?UJ:ZMIZ\Z&Y3W7*W/>8OO9IL
MY$6*/=9$1J?$Q&XW$^GB?7Z-_P!$=<YV3F\/?S<;C[.#]NFQD7IJJFNNJJ:.
MVBBF9U'KOY^E4S,:A57QT3_FA@_[3^TJ2!H.BJ:J>DL&*HF)CWGB8_\`$J;\
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````%7<7P_1'1]%$V^G\:N:/%G(N6HNW9G7G=56YC?X>
MF]>C[Y[VJX?!Q;RHJBG#JF*.RY:GQ5J?$=L3N/&]^%"8/,=7=39%RC#O4X]B
MJ)IJKIMQ3;H\1N(KU-6_,>D[\[\1Z2/ANG,7B;US-YC*MYV=<M3577DSNFFW
M$1%?WI\QYU-4_*8CQN=S$Q5V=>Q[^9<N8F+]EL5:[;/O)K[?$;^*?,^=S^]V
MOT)_-YTU_JK%_LJ7$E^_>R;U5[(NW+MVK[U=RJ:JI^7F9=M]"?S>=-?ZJQ?[
M*E52``!2GMDX_&N]7]/YW(_:+-JW^;Q+EOMFBY>[Z:HIGUJB?7<=NM:GOWNF
M+K1'J?I*_P!6Y&#]LN8V-:PJZKEOMI]_-54^(GXJ8[=:WN)W$_/0*(QLKG*<
MK&O8>':R^+R;<WJ?-&/-N;E?=\?WMS3$^L1Y[IF=RF7O.,N6:._"SK5SX9J]
MWG451$^)F-S9\Q\MZB=?24XQ/9=QEF[=O7LJY5=NZ]Y79MTVYKUXC<SO>H;3
M'Z!X*S,^\M7K_C7YR[,:_'X=`K7I+&ZDX;&G^0*<CE+M=^[5D4Q58MU6Z*Y[
MMQW]M,SW?US,>/A55S'7G5_&9E[BK?,\E9Q+$4V[>/DWJ+M5-&H[8JF(U,ZT
MZT^S87`\9DW<:S1:IMVYKF9F9FK43K<S.Y_C\W%G5E=%SJ?.JIR:LB?>3355
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MA$)LK_V)?S0\%_O'_47%@```````````````````````````````````````
M``````````````````````````````````````````XDY;K/D,^FW9PX_D[%
MM:[+>/7--6HC6IJC7B/.HB(C]NH>G2W)W*<SE[V5<MY%VOC[M7^,_'-V:8B8
MIF9\S&HG<;\Q'X>.E_R)>SS]7OZ;D?WCVL>QWH/%IO18X.JW%ZW-JYVYN1\5
M$S$S'^4^>H_J!QT[?Z$_F\Z:_P!58O\`94H_^1+V>?J]_3<C^\3C`P<?C..Q
ML##M^[Q<6U19LT=TSVT4Q$4QN?,ZB(]09````#%RLZUBQ'=.ZI]*8]=;9-5,
M51,3OS])TQ*N+PZJIJFU,U3YF>^K<_\`%F[Q+O$0ZYZCLV>ELF*XFBBK7O*M
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MUF9]9JWZS+%Y;V7='<Y?HO<EQ->17;I[:=YE^(B/V17$?*//X1]`<=9O)9O)
M7/>9N5=OS$S,175,Q3OUU'I'[(8KK_\`(E[//U>_IN1_>'Y$O9Y^KW]-R/[P
M#V)?S0\%_O'_`%%Q8#7\)PG'=.</8XGB<?[/@V.[W=KOJK[>ZJ:I\U3,SYF9
M\RV`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
&````/__9
`
end


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:50 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.cerf.net!nntp2.cerf.net!pelican.com!grian!morris
From: [e-mail] (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA
References: <49po4b$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:08:06 GMT
Lines: 24

Bill Harwood <[e-mail]> writes:

>Try a small UHF yagi.  A local radio shack or TV store will probably
>have one set up for the right frequency.  If this is a booster or
>translator station try contacting your local booster organization.

>Good Luck

Check the local TV store - not Radio Shack. Ask to see their
Winegard (sp?) catalog. Their product line includes single-channel
(i.e. optimized) antennas, as well as compromise antennas for all-VHF,
or All-UHF, or both.  Thay make good stuff - I've got a VHF-UHF that
I purchased in 1966 up on the roof, and it's still working fine. I
varnish the insulators every other year, and replace the feedline
every 5 years. A friend back east has two of the single-channel
antennas and a compromise VHF and a compromise UHF all up at 30 feet
and a 4-way combiner to a single feedline and it works excellently.


--
---
Mike Morris                                [e-mail]
#include <disclaimer.std.h>        I have others, but this works the best.
   This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels).


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bighorn.accessnv.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Charles J. Mishmash)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees
Date: 12 Dec 1995 04:50:43 GMT
Organization: accessnv.com
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4aj1n3$[e-mail]>
References: <48veer$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp027.anv.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] says...
>
>   [e-mail] (Greg Taylor) wrote:
>
>>Have seen some references to just throwing wires through trees
>>without insulators etc.....wonder if anybody has any rough parameters
>>on potential loss etc of this practice.
>
I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter
delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and
weighted arrow.  Simply let the wire lay over the apex of the tree,
then tied nylon line to the corners about 10 feet above ground and
stretched  the bottom of the triangle between two trees.  Worked DXCC
in one season with this arrangement.  Hardly noticed any SWR deviations
in bad weather.  Kids loved to impress the neighbor kids at night when
they would play Darth Vader with 4 foot flouresant lamps as swords
while dad blasted the DX on CW.

Give it a try, it works.  Good Luck

Charlie  AA7NQ



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!darkblue.demon.co.uk
From: Gareth Edwards <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Apartment antennas
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 22:59:38 GMT
Organization: no fixed abode
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: darkblue.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30

Does anyone have any sensible suggestions on the best way to get into
amateur radio when I live on the first floor on a 4 story block of
flats, surrounded by the same height of flats for about 3 miles around?
I should get my licence through in the New Year and I'd like to get on
the air ASAP. Do I have to go /P? A rooftop antenna is also not ideal.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome.

Cheers,
Gareth
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Gareth Edwards       |  [e-mail]           |
|  Edinburgh,           |  Home of Edinburgh Beige Cricket Club  |
|  Scotland             |  PGP public key available on request   |
------------------------------------------------------------------


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](W. Dennis Zeares )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: artificial ground
Date: 10 Dec 1995 20:19:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4affcc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-dfw14-20.ix.netcom.com

Anyone have experience with the MFJ artificial ground.
How about opinions and ideas about "ground" for a second
floor apt. dweller??? send e-mail direct: [e-mail]
Thanks
73's Dennis K3ETS


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.ultranet.com!bigboote.WPI.EDU!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!baack
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:55:23 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: backpackable 2m homebrew?
Lines: 11

Hello all, I am looking for a "simple" and I stress simple
design for a quick and dirty 2 meter yagi.  2-5 elements
nothing really fancy just enough to get a decent signal
out using a handheld.  My perfect example is something similar
to the designs that radio shack put out in their "Radio"
magazine for a 440 antenna 8 ele.  Works GREAT realy easy
to operate and construct.


Any information would greatly be appreciated..
Thanks,   J   N1RWY
***looking forward to Mountain top Field Day!!******


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:55 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!iol!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!iglou!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: balanced antenna tuner(s)
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <4a2er4$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:28:43 GMT
Lines: 16

I remember seeing one like that in QST many years ago. It had a belt
between the roller inductors and used ganged capacitors. A balun was used
on the transmitter side. This is a good idea but never got off the
ground. Seems to me like Palomar tried it once but discontinued it for
some reason.


Cecil A. Moore~ ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using one
: for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other tuner
: for the other side of the transmission line? One possible schematic for
: my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network coaxial tuners.

: 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:56 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!rohrwerk
From: [e-mail] (John Seboldt)
Subject: Re: balanced antenna tuner(s)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4a2er4$[e-mail]> <4abo5c$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 01:58:23 GMT
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>   [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~) wrote:

>>Has anybody ever tried taking two identical antenna tuners and using
>>one for one side of a balanced transmission line and using the other
>>tuner for the other side of the transmission line? One possible
>>schematic for my balanced antenna tuner looks like two pi-network
>>coaxial tuners.

...

>BTW, I've run across two guys on the air who are using balanced Pi's
>fed with a balun.  I didn't have a chance to ask about any tests they
>might have performed though.

>73,
>Jack  WB3U

Well, I have used a balanced L net -- 2 roller inductors in shunt, a
variable cap in shunt, and a balun on the input.  The QST article a while
back about the "Balanced Balanced Antenna Tuner" was my inspiration.

I am now tentatively of the opinion that any tuner configuration with a
balun on the input (and floating from ground) will give you as good a
simluation of balanced feed as you can get short of a link-coupled
transmatch.  I've been using the SPC circuit with the balun on the input,
for extra selectivity and help in rejecting local broadcast stations.

: John Seboldt  [e-mail]  / CW:  It don't mean a thing
:      K0JD... Minneapolis, MN      /  if it ain't got that swing!
:   My R2/T2 station described in  / Di dah, di dah, di dah, di dah...
> http://www.lehigh.edu/lists/qrp-l/k0jd/index.html <


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: balanced antenna tuner(s)
Date: 10 Dec 1995 10:47:08 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aevds$[e-mail]>
References: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi All,

I have areal problem with the idea that moving a balun to the input of ANY
tuner does much to reliably change the choking mode (common mode) stresses
or impedance requirements of a balun.

The problem really consists of two seperate issues. One is the common mode
problem, the other is the out of phase (transmisssion line mode) problem.

Of these, the common mode problem is the most difficult one to handle, and
it's the thing that causes radiation. Moving the balun with an unbalanced
network will do absolutely nothing under any condition to improve things
here. We covered that very well in another thread a few weeks ago and we
all reached agreement on that point.

We didn't cover the balanced network tuner, and probably should have. With
that type of tuner, my understanding is moving the balun to the input
results in an unpredictable change in choking mode balun requirements. It
can get better, stay the same, or get worse.

I can't think of any circuit that is as reliable as a low capacitance
link, with a fully ground independent secondary. The link system is the
best insurance of balanced line currents at the tuner output, and lowest
common mode current at that point.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!bubba.NMSU.Edu!pc-thooker.psl.nmsu.edu!thooker
From: [e-mail] (Tracy Hooker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: BUTTERNUT VERTICAL manual wanted...
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 15:32:43
Organization: Physical Science Laboratory / NMSU
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc-thooker.nmsu.edu
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

Hi,
I am looking for  a manual for a butternut vertical.  The one I have has
several large coils at the bottom, and along the vertical aluminum radiator is
a wire.  People familur with the antenna know which one, I am sure.  It does
have the additional band kit, I believe for 40m.

Please let me know if you have a manual, and I will pay for reproduction costs.

Thanks,
Tracy
KA5ECS



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:32:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: [e-mail] (Brian Buydens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Date: 8 Dec 1995 19:49:25 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM?
I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications
need to be made.

--
Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:00 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!news3.noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 21:42:04 GMT
Lines: 12
Sender: [e-mail]

Brian Buydens ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM?
: I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications
: need to be made.

The obvious thing would be to lop off of third of it, since it is a
quarter-wave on the 3m FM broadcast band.  However, you (also obvious)
don't want to transmit with this unless you have some provision for
adjusting SWR.  Typically these cheap antennas don't have such provision
for fine-tuning their length.   Also, they are typically mounted on the
fender of the car which makes for a bad ground plane.  For reception, it
might work OK if your transmitter is vertically polarized, though.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:01 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!wa2ise
From: [e-mail] (Robert Casey)
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 22:30:29 GMT
Lines: 12
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian Buydens) writes:
>Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM?
>I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications
>need to be made.
>
About 15 years ago I did this in a 72 Pinto.  But I just took a piece of
75 ohm coax with BNC at one end and soldered a female motorola
connector, and connected the AM car antenna to it.  And it worked!
I probably by accident hit on a reasonable combination of coax lengths
and length of antenna.  The length of75 ohm coax was around 20 inches,
who knows the impedance or length of car antenna coax, and the antenna
itself was about 1/4 wave at 2m.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:02 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!nntp2.cerf.net!pelican.com!grian!morris
From: [e-mail] (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 10:20:46 GMT
Lines: 31

[e-mail] (Robert Casey) writes:

>In article <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian Buydens) writes:
>>Has anyone tried modifying an ordinary AM car antenna for use with 2m FM?
>>I would be interested to know what the results were, and what modifications
>>need to be made.
>>
>About 15 years ago I did this in a 72 Pinto.  But I just took a piece of
>75 ohm coax with BNC at one end and soldered a female motorola
>connector, and connected the AM car antenna to it.  And it worked!
>I probably by accident hit on a reasonable combination of coax lengths
>and length of antenna.  The length of75 ohm coax was around 20 inches,
>who knows the impedance or length of car antenna coax, and the antenna
>itself was about 1/4 wave at 2m.

Contact your local PD radio shop and ask them about disguise antennas.
The "big name" in disguise antennas is Stico, but I do not remember
where they are located nor can I lay my hands on my copy of their
catalog. Maybe your local 2-way shop can point you in the right
direction so you can get their catalog - they have matching devices that
will couple low band (30-50mhz), high band(150-172) and UHF(450-470)
to a regular car radio antenna. They can also supply replacement
stock-looking antennas built for VHF (but not for my '67 El Camino
or '73 Dodge).

de WA6ILQ
--
---
Mike Morris                                [e-mail]
#include <disclaimer.std.h>        I have others, but this works the best.
   This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels).


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet
From: Marcellino Gemelli <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:21 +0100
Organization: I.Net S.p.A.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> <4ac8ff$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d)
To: Alan Burgstahler <[e-mail]>
CC: [e-mail], [e-mail]

For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also
been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military
Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz,
10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to
pass unnoticed.
They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes
during transmission of the UHF.
Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just
to let you know it's done.

Marcellino Gemelli
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:04 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet
From: Marcellino Gemelli <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:43 +0100
Organization: I.Net S.p.A.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> <4ac8ff$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d)
To: Alan Burgstahler <[e-mail]>
CC: [e-mail], [e-mail]

For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also
been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military
Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz,
10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to
pass unnoticed.
They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes
during transmission of the UHF.
Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just
to let you know it's done.

Marcellino Gemelli
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet
From: Marcellino Gemelli <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:38:59 +0100
Organization: I.Net S.p.A.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> <4ac8ff$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d)
To: Alan Burgstahler <[e-mail]>
CC: [e-mail], [e-mail]

For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also
been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military
Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz,
10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to
pass unnoticed.
They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes
during transmission of the UHF.
Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just
to let you know it's done.

Marcellino Gemelli
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet
From: Marcellino Gemelli <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:39:23 +0100
Organization: I.Net S.p.A.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> <4ac8ff$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d)
To: Alan Burgstahler <[e-mail]>
CC: [e-mail]

For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also
been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military
Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz,
10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to
pass unnoticed.
They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes
during transmission of the UHF.
Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just
to let you know it's done.

Marcellino Gemelli
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed.tip.net!peroni.ita.tip.net!venere.inet.it!usenet
From: Marcellino Gemelli <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:39:54 +0100
Organization: I.Net S.p.A.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aa4s5$[e-mail]> <4ac8ff$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.114.8.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4d)
To: [e-mail]
CC: [e-mail]

For completeness, I would like to point out that what you say has also
been done in the 70 cm. bands. In particular, the Italian Military
Police Forces (Carabinieri) use their radios tranceivers (420-430 MHz,
10W) on these antennae mounted on "normal" cars that are meant to
pass unnoticed.
They also manage to use the ordinary AM radio, even though it buzzes
during transmission of the UHF.
Unfortunately, I don't know how exactly everything is accomplished. Just
to let you know it's done.

Marcellino Gemelli
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Ted Viens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax Spacing
Date: 10 Dec 1995 15:20:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4aetri$[e-mail]>
References: <4adcd2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-hou7-22.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 10  7:20:18 AM PST 1995

In <4adcd2$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Edward Lewis) writes:
>
>I have 3 runs of coax running from my garage roof to my shack. I have
>them tied together in a bundle. Will this cause any problems, Should
>they be seperated with space between the runs? The antennas are HF,
>220mhz, and 440mhz.
>73 Ed Lewis   KE6KEP
>
Such a simple question, of course with no simple answer.  Above all is
the simple matter of length.  Theoretically, coaxial cables are
inherently self sheilding.  Yeah, sure, but coax is a common example of
where reality bites.  If we are talking less than 100', especially less
than 50', then there are more important things to worry about.  Hmmm,
most of my following remarks actually dealt with a closed system
convienently forgetting that hams primarily use coax to feed nearby
antennas.  Since the isolation at the antennas is 40 or more dB worse
than the cheesiest coax, your physical layout becomes a minor
importance.  So, I will just throw out my nominal rules for running
coax.  Do not tightly bundle long runs of coax together.  If anyone
insists on an orderly run of coax, space each cable at least one cable
diameter apart.  If the cable cannot be seen, bundle it at wide
intervals and let it loosely splay about between wrappings.  If you
must be neat and can afford plastic or metal ducting, buy ducting large
enough to let the cables run loosely within it.  Try to keep the cable
at less than 25% duct capacity.

Since this is a special situation where three widely spaced bands are
being used, I would have approached it very differently.  Rather than
three runs of very good and moderately expensive coax, I would buy or
make a couple of good triplexers and spend the bulk of the money on a
single run of larger coax (perhaps hardline, budget permitting.)  I
would also run an additional length of cheap RG-8 for testing and
contigency needs and a control and power cable to run T-R switches and
antenna mounted preamps on the VHF and UHF antennas.

For a reality check, I have been too lazy to become a ham, so I only
use my antennas for monitoring.  My antennas are on the roof and the
coax runs are less than 50 feet.  I use the loosely splayed about
technique of cable running within the attic.  Worst of all, my
lightning and grounding techniques are dismal.  Which backhandedly
brings up the area where you really should focus your concerns and
efforts...
--
Bye...  Ted..
Deep in the Heart of the Armpits of Houston, Texas...


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.wco.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Edward Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Coax Spacing
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 00:17:25 GMT
Organization: West Coast Online's News Server - Not responsible for content
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4adcd2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.4.121.245
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have 3 runs of coax running from my garage roof to my shack. I have
them tied together in a bundle. Will this cause any problems, Should
they be seperated with space between the runs? The antennas are HF,
220mhz, and 440mhz.
73 Ed Lewis   KE6KEP



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Coax Spacing
Date: 11 Dec 1995 09:15:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ahedt$[e-mail]>
References: <4adcd2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4adcd2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Edward Lewis)
writes:

>I have 3 runs of coax running from my garage roof to my shack. I have
>them tied together in a bundle. Will this cause any problems, Should
>they be seperated with space between the runs? The antennas are HF,
>220mhz, and 440mhz.
>73 Ed Lewis

Hi Ed,

While there are some critical non-amateur applications that may be
affected, in the practical world of Ham radio it will make no difference
at all.

The only concern would be if a line was not properly terminated, and
carried parallel currents. It's always a good idea to install a good choke
balun at the antenna end of the HF feedline before it joins the other
cables in the bundle.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Lawrence Stoskopf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Combining TV antennas
Date: 12 Dec 95 03:46:53 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

This probably should be on another forum, but I lurk here and TV antennas
really aren't that much different than what is discussed here.

First:  what is inside the cheap TV F-conn splitters.  They don't seem to
act as combiners, at least the ones I have.

Second:  From here in Salina, Kansas I have Ch 6 at 15 mi. NW, Ch 9 at 60 mi
W, Ch 3, 8, 10, 12 at about 80 mi SSW, Ch 13 at 90 mi E, Ch 4 at 90 mi N.  I
have a large enough space in the attic with a clear shot everywhere, but not
enough to rotate an antenna.  I have tried multiple antennas with individual
preamps (wideband MMICs) all combined, but when tropo comes up, the multiple
signals through different antennas combining, i.e. Ch 9, 10, 12 all picking
up Ch 12 and combining out of phase give some interesting pictures.  Short
of making narrow band amplifiers, ala the W5 in Popular Electronics some 30
years ago, anyone have any questions.

FYIW:  I did get a sheet of aluminized mylar covered styrofoam from the
hardware store and made a great corner reflector for the UHF stations.

Thanks
Lawrence E. Stoskopf
N0UU



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas
Date: 12 Dec 1995 10:44:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 46
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ak81g$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Lawrence,
In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Lawrence Stoskopf) writes:

>This probably should be on another forum, but I lurk here and TV antennas
>really aren't that much different than what is discussed here.
>
>First:  what is inside the cheap TV F-conn splitters.  They don't seem to
>act as combiners, at least the ones I have.

Usually they are magic T's. They have a ct coil with a resistor from end
to end (r=2RL) and a step up transformer that connects from the ct to the
input. The two output ports connect to each end of the resisor in parallel
with the full winding of the center tapped coil. They work equally well as
combiners!

>Second:  From here in Salina, Kansas I have Ch 6 at 15 mi. NW, Ch 9 at 60
mi
>W, Ch 3, 8, 10, 12 at about 80 mi SSW, Ch 13 at 90 mi E, Ch 4 at 90 mi N.
 I
>have a large enough space in the attic with a clear shot everywhere, but
not
>enough to rotate an antenna.  I have tried multiple antennas with
individual
>preamps (wideband MMICs) all combined, but when tropo comes up, the
multiple
>signals through different antennas combining, i.e. Ch 9, 10, 12 all
picking
>up Ch 12 and combining out of phase give some interesting pictures.
Short
>of making narrow band amplifiers, ala the W5 in Popular Electronics some
30
>years ago, anyone have any questions.

I assume you are following the correct proceedures in stacking the
antennas.

1. They are identical designs.

2. They are stacked along the same centerline. That centerline is an exact
right angle to the station you desire.

3. They are both fed with identical fed systems, including length, from
the combiner to the antennas.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!joesbar.cc.vt.edu!ranck
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas
Date: 12 Dec 1995 14:32:18 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4ak3pj$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: joesbar.cc.vt.edu

Lawrence Stoskopf ([e-mail]) wrote:
: This probably should be on another forum, but I lurk here and TV antennas
: really aren't that much different than what is discussed here.

I lurk here also, but I maintain and occasionally distribute a TV antenna
FAQ on other lists.  Your questions are beyond the FAQ though.

: First:  what is inside the cheap TV F-conn splitters.  They don't seem to
: act as combiners, at least the ones I have.

The ones I've seen taken apart were just wire balun transformers.  They
should funtion as combiners, but I would be cautious about running amplified
signals into one.  You may have some DC component on the cables that will
cause the two amps to interfere with each other.  I don't think the simple
splitters from Radio Shack, etc. would isolate that.

: Second:  From here in Salina, Kansas I have Ch 6 at 15 mi. NW, Ch 9 at 60 mi
: W, Ch 3, 8, 10, 12 at about 80 mi SSW, Ch 13 at 90 mi E, Ch 4 at 90 mi N.  I
: have a large enough space in the attic with a clear shot everywhere, but not
: enough to rotate an antenna.  I have tried multiple antennas with individual
: preamps (wideband MMICs) all combined, but when tropo comes up, the multiple
: signals through different antennas combining, i.e. Ch 9, 10, 12 all picking
: up Ch 12 and combining out of phase give some interesting pictures.  Short
: of making narrow band amplifiers, ala the W5 in Popular Electronics some 30
: years ago, anyone have any questions.

What you need to do is use some notch filters to drop out, for example,
the Ch 12 signal from the Ch 9 antenna.  Single channel filters are a standard
item with cable TV suppliers.  Are you using channel cut antennas for those
single channel directions (6 and 9)?  That might help, but a few filters will
probably be cheaper than new antennas.

--
*****************************************************************************
* Bill Ranck                [phone]                    [e-mail] *
*    Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, Computing Center    *
*****************************************************************************


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!news.cac.psu.edu!usenet
From: "Roy D." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: 10 Dec 1995 19:58:51 GMT
Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4afe5r$[e-mail]>
References: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsppp36.cac.psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote:
>Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated.
>


Any electrical supply will have 'terminal grease' for aluminum
connectors. It is required for applications like AL service entrance
cable connections.  Some sell it in squeeze bottles and some will even
give you several 'ketchup packs' of the stuff for free.

      73
--


Roy Derryberry, KD3LZ    Member: Aircraft Owners and Pilot's Association
([e-mail])                             American Radio Relay League
                                        Utility Workers Union of America

If I'd known I was gonna live this long, I'd taken better care of myself.




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!news.corpcomm.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!hgea01.hgea.org!usenet
From: Wayne Jones <wjones.hgea.org>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: 11 Dec 1995 01:41:43 GMT
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4ag28n$[e-mail]>
References: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp89.hgea.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Windows; U; 16bit)

[e-mail] (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote:
>Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated.

You can try NAPA for a product called Penetrox.  Comes in a tube about the
size of a small tube of toothpaste.  Generally is hanging from a peg.

Aloha from the 50th State!
Wayne, NH6GJ



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!noc.near.net!llnews.ll.mit.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (John Kaufmann)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 20:22:42 GMT
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Laboratory
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4ai3to$[e-mail]>
References: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1

[e-mail] (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote:
>Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated.
>
>73
>

One such product is GB Ox-garde, available in hardware stores (about $5 for a small tube).

John Kaufmann W1FV
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (RICK LUTZ)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: 11 Dec 1995 22:43:44 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aitpg$[e-mail]>
References: <4ai3to$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (RICK LUTZ)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

if you only need a small amount try running down a power company truck and
asking for a teaspoon of nolox,  they should be happy to give you that
much just besure to have a container handy


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:23:09 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Tue, 12 Dec 95 12:55:24 GMT]
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Tue, 12 Dec 95 12:56:10 GMT]

In article: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>  [e-mail] (Joe
Pfeuffer) writes:
:
: Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated.

There is a list of products with brief descriptions on the ARRL BBS,
also available at ftp.oak.oakland.edu and several offical mirror sites:

Look for /pub/hamradio/arrl/infoserver/tis/grease.txt

"/tis/" stands for Technical Information Service. There's a lot more
interesting technical material from ARRL in that same directory.

--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - anywhere.



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news99.sunet.se!news.funet.fi!news.tele.fi!news.inet.fi!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Juha Kupiainen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Create antennas manufacturer address?
Date: 11 Dec 1995 08:18:13 GMT
Organization: Enermet Oy
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4agpg5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kupiaju.enermet.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

Hello!

I can't find address for Create antenna manufacturer.
Fax number is also missing! And if they have E-mail address
that would very helpful.

        73 de Juha / OH4JK



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:22 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slay
From: [e-mail] (Sandy Lynch)
Subject: Re: Create antennas manufacturer address?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <4agpg5$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:13:40 GMT
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]

Juha Kupiainen ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hello!

: I can't find address for Create antenna manufacturer.
: Fax number is also missing! And if they have E-mail address
: that would very helpful.

:       73 de Juha / OH4JK

Create Design K.K.
4-8, Asano-cho
Kawasaki-ku, Kawasaki-shi
Kanagawa-ken, Japan  210
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Cheers
Sandy WA6BXH/7J1ABV
Portland, Oregon
[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.mis.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: 11 Dec 1995 23:19:46 GMT
Organization: Mikrotec Internet Services, Inc. (MISNet)
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4aieai$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp14.mis.net
X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house brick veneer asbestas shingles)
think it will work ok? any advice?




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: 12 Dec 1995 18:08:09 GMT
Organization: NCEER
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4akge9$[e-mail]>
References: <4aieai$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: electroman.eng.buffalo.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
NNTP-Posting-User: kuhl
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

In article <4aieai$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...

>i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story
house
> brick veneer asbestas shingles)
>think it will work ok? any advice?


I use a 2 meter 1/4 wave in my attic with great results.  What George said
about placemaent might be true but I just moved mine around untill I got the
best signal.

Kevin
KB2WLS




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!van-bc!news.rmii.com!nexus.interealm.com!usenet
From: "George J. Molnar" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 07:46:25 -0700
Organization: ICG/MagNET [phone]
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aieai$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp200.interealm.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I)

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house brick veneer asbestas shingles)
> think it will work ok? any advice?

Sure, it'll WORK, but performance will almost certainly be less than the
same antenna out of doors. Depending on the materials in the roof, your
radiation efficiency may be reduced substantially. Also, you may
encounter some RF in the shack due to coupling to house wiring, etc.

The best bet for attic antennas is to mount the dipole as straight as
possible, as far from ANYTHING (rafters, wiring, etc) else as you can.
Run a minimum of coax to the shack, and try to take the cable away from
the antenna at as close to a right angle as you can get.

Before the flames start -- no, none of the above advice is MANDATORY,
but in my experience, each point helps.

Good luck & 73!

--
George J. Molnar
Highlands Ranch, Colorado
Packet: KF2T@N0QCU.#NECO.CO.USA.NOAM
http://www.interealm.com/p/gmolnar/index.html


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:22:31 GMT
Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aieai$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net

In article <4aieai$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>i'm thinking of mounting a cushman multi-freq. dipole in my attic (2 story house brick veneer asbestas shingles)
>think it will work ok? any advice?
>
>
Greetings. Heres my $.05 worth.
Whether or not an antenna will "work" is determined by actual usage. If I were you I'd put
that puppy up there and work the heck out of it!
My most thrilling contact as a novice, (circa 1971) was a night time 40 meter c.w. contact
with OA5NBO using an old rock bound Hallicrafters HT-40 and a reciever that had all the
filtering of box of cornflakes. My, ahem, "antenna" was one of those old Hygain
metal sticks, HT-something, that had as its ground a, count'em, 3 foot ground rod.
Today twenty plus years later, I'd tell myself that it COULDN'T work. Fact is it was my
first DX contact. So go for it! I'll look for you on the bands. Let us know how it works.
73 de WB0FDJ


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:27 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Jeff Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: directional couplers
Date: 10 Dec 1995 15:02:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <4aesqi$[e-mail]>
References: <4a5ogp$[e-mail]> <4a72dm$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-pa9-18.ix.netcom.com

Cecil,

    I thought you might be interested in another way of looking at the
operation of directional couplers.  I became interested in their operation
about a year ago and came up with the following explanation.

    At that time I was testing out a directional coupler on the bench with
a dummy load attached to it, and realized that at the wavelength I was
experimenting with, I had essentially a "lumped element" circuit (this
included the dummy load), rather than a transmission line circuit.  Yet,
the readings at the sampling ports behaved as expected.  I didn't want to
explain its operation in transmission line terms (forward and reflected
waves) because I had no transmission line.  So I set out to explain its
operation in basic lumped element circuit analysis terms.

        If you analyze a typical circuit (see below) using standard
circuit analysis techniques, you'll derive a set of equations
characterizing the voltages at the sampling ports that are dependent
solely upon the impedances at the 4 ports, not forward and reflected
waves.

     ---\/\/\----o-------------u--------------.-----o----  VL
     |    Rs    IN    -------mmmmmm----       |    OUT  |
     |               |        1:n      |      |         \
     Vs              |                gnd     |         /  RL
     |               |    gnd                 |         \
     |               |     |   n:1            |         /
     |               |     ---mmmmm------------         |
    gnd      Va  o---.----------n---------------o Vb   gnd
                 |                              |
                 /                              /
                 \  Rc                          \ Rc
                 /                              /
                 \                              \
                 |                              |
                gnd                            gnd


        In this circuit Va and Vb are the sampling ports, and Rc is set
to equal the characteristic impedance of the transmission line.  I've
set the load to be resistive, rather than include reactance, for ease of
calculation.

        From the circuit the following equations can be derived:

                Vb = (Vs/(2n))((Rc - RL)/(Rs + RL))

                Va = (Vs/(2n))((Rc + RL)/(Rs + RL))


       Solving these two equations:

            Vb = Va(Rc - RL)/(Rc + RL)

       If we now measure these voltages and scale our voltmeter so that
Va = 1 volt, then, if we measure Vb with the same scale, we get:

            Vb = (Rc - RL)/(Rc + RL)

        This happens to correspond to the definition of reflection
coefficient for a purely resistive load (and in our case the
transmission line impedance is set to be equal to Rc).

        Vb will range from 0 to 1 volt (Va = 1 volt).  Using the
definition of VSWR, we can calculate VSWR as follows:

            VSWR = (1 + |Vb|)/(1 - |Vb|).

        For instance, if Vb = 0.5 volts, VSWR = 3.  And this is just
what you'll see on typical SWR meters - a VSWR value of 3 is labeled at
the meter's mid-scale (0.5 volts on a 1 volt full-scale meter).


        I don't know if this explanation is helpful at all, but I find
it an interesting way to look at the operation of directional couplers.
 I think you can find a similar explanation in Hayward's "An
Introduction to Radio Frequency Design".

- Jeff, WA6AHL




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty QST Article
Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:26:00 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 16
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4amuqo$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

I have two questions about the Doty article:

1) Is it really true that the radial return current *must*
   equal the current in the vertical rod? Isn't some of the
   return current diverted from the radials to the earth
   underneath by capacitive coupling, as Doty claims?  Isn't
   there a potential difference between radials and the
   earth that would cause displacement currents to flow
   to ground and not through the measuring instrument?

2) Doesn't some of the radiator current return to ground well
   beyond the radial system?

As a non-expert in this area, I would like to get your thoughts.

Bill Sabin W0IYH


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user
From: [e-mail] (J. L. Blanton)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Extremely narrow-band antennas?
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 00:48:28 -0800
Organization: Network Intensive
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <hbaker-0112951039030001@10.0.2.15>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net

In article <hbaker-0112951039030001@10.0.2.15>, [e-mail] (Henry
Baker) wrote:

> How would I go about building a very narrow-band antenna, say picking out
> only 10 KHz in a 900 MHz band?

Antennas usually aren't intentionally designed to be narrowband, but an
electrically short antenna ends up that way when its reactance is matched
to the transmission line's impedance.  The shorter the antenna (i.e. the
more inductive loading required) the narrower the bandwidth.
Unfortunately, as the radiator is shortened the efficiency goes down,
reducing the antenna's effectiveness on the desired signals.  To reject
interference while retaining a reasonable level of the desired signal
you're probably better off using a normal antenna followed by a passive
low-loss filter.  Use a bandpass filter to pass the desired signal or a
band reject filter to reject a specific interfering signal at a known
frequency.

73,

Lee, WA8YBT/6
Temecula, CA


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:30 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Feedpoint impedance of yagi
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 02:59:57 GMT
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]

How does the feedpoint impedance of a yagi vary with the number of
elements?  For example, in a yagi designed for 3m reception (only), of
3-6 total elements, is the impedance close enough to the 72-ohm dipole
impedance to just hook on a 75-ohm coax and run it to the receiver?


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!chi-news.cic.net!brutus.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Paul M)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FOR SALE: Kenpro KR-5400 Az-El Rotor
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:45:12 GMT
Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc.
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4af2r8$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: docutech.ultranet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

FOR SALE:   Kenpro KR-5400 Azimuth-Elevation rotor system  $150

The control box and rotors are very similar to the Yaesu G-5400
system. Why am I selling this for such a miniscule price? The
controller is not working. If you are good at troubleshooting
electronics and want to get onto the amateur satellites, this could be
your winter project. Elevation rotor is only 18 months old. Azimuth
rotor is older. You'll also need to add some fresh hardware to the
rotor brackets (nuts and bolts).

UPS ground shipping included in price.

Email only to [e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.xnet.com!news-admin
From: [e-mail] (Jerry)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Force12 Antenna
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:27:57 GMT
Organization: XNet - A Full Service Internet Provider - [phone]
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4ajvkj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: n9vhw.xnet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Am interested in hearing your comments on Force12 C-3 or C-4 and their
benefits over trapped yagis like Mosley PRO 67C.  Any one with first
hand experience please send comments to :
[e-mail]
Thanks
N9VHW



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!interaccess!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Ronald H Steinberg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Fully Remoting the Ten Tec 253 ant tuner
Date: 11 Dec 1995 10:13:26 GMT
Organization: Rent Com, Inc.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4ah086$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d101.he.interaccess.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

I am about to put a Ten Tec 253 auto ant tuner up on the tower in a
weather proff box. Has anyone tried to completly remote this unit?
Any comment on the 253 tuner?

          RON   K9IKZ


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news
From: [e-mail] (Chris Dorn)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Grounding problem with G5RV?
Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:54:31 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4an0g7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: async3-7.remote.ualberta.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2

Hello,
    I would appreciate some advice on the following. My antenna system
has been a G5RV about 25ft. up, connected to about 8ft of RG8 coax. The
center feedline portion of the antenna comes to just outside the window
of the shack, where I then have the short length of coax coming through
the window to my Kenwood AT200 manual tuner. I have used this system
successfully with both my Drake Twins and a Kenwood TS520S. With these
transceivers I have been able to tune all bands no problem. The
difficulty began when I bought a Drake TR7 solid state unit. With the
unit I could not tune 80m. Other bands are fine, but on 80m the SWR would
shoot from 3:1 to 10:1 at times. The unit is fine on 80 into a dummy
load. I thought it may be an RF feedback problem since the G5RV is not
very resonant on 80. I thought that the tubes rigs with the extra tuning
stage were maybe getting around the problem. I therefore connected a wire
to ground stake to the antenna tuner, added 50ft of coax, and moved the
rig away from the antenna. I can now get an SWR of about 1:9 to 1, but
that is still somewhat dissapointing, and that's what I get with the tube
rigs now. Before with the tube rigs I would get 1:1 to 1. The ground rod
I am using is probably not very good, a rather thin stake about 2 to 3Ft
down. I can't do much as far as a new ground rod until spring thaw. Any
comments on this, and has anyone else had problems like this with a G5RV
and solid state vs. tube rigs?
Thanks,
Chris VE6RDC



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: groundpole antenna
Date: 12 Dec 1995 19:59:23 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 14
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4akmur$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

>Someone asked recently about the Groundpole antenna described by W6MUR in
>the April 1959 QST. I don't know who you are as you dropped off the new
>group before I could answer.

It was I who ran across the article.  The vertical poles are 1/4 wave
and they are 1/2 wave apart at the lowest frequency band. The main
attraction was its broadband response and low driving point
impedance at the various harmonic frequencies.  He used aluminum
irrigation tubing (32 ft) for the verticals and wire for the horizontal.
He used open wire feeder. The verticals were several feet into the ground.
He showed how to combine multiple groundpoles to get gain and directivity
in a limited space.  It was the innovativeness that I found interesting.

Bill Sabin W0IYH


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!atha!rwa
From: [e-mail] (Ross Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: groundpole antenna
Date: 12 Dec 1995 20:53:13 GMT
Organization: Athabasca University
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4akq3p$[e-mail]>
References: <4akmur$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aupair.cs.athabascau.ca
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV)

[e-mail] writes:

>The vertical poles are 1/4 wave and they are 1/2 wave apart at the
>lowest frequency band.


This sounds eerily like a half-square.  What am I missing?

regards,
Ross ve6pdq
--
Ross Alexander, ve6pdq  --  [phone]  --  [e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!matlock.mindspring.com!mindspring.com!thompson
From: [e-mail] (David Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Groundpole antenna
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 13:55:03 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises, Inc.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: thompson.mindspring.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B]

Someone asked recently about the Groundpole antenna described by W6MUR in the
April 1959 QST.  Sorry I don't know who you are as you dropped off the new
group before I could answer.

The groundpole antenna was a very innovative antenna in 1959 as the level of
activity on 80 and 160 was not nearly as high as today.  160 Meters could not
be widely used due to LORAN and day/night power limitations in the States and
was generally not available elsewhere.  The antenna is a grounded vertical
system of one full wavelength.  The closest comparison would be to a vertical
Bi-Square with the mirror image being in the ground.  This is why the antenna
is bi-directional rather than omni directional.  W1FB has another version in
his Antenna book in an inverted V fashion each side being 1/2 wavelength.  The
problem with this antenna is that 135 foot elevation is required for 160
although 66 foot the sides for 80/75 are reasonable.

Many have had good results with the inverted U or half quad.  This antenna is
close to omni on the fundamental with slight directivity end fire off the leg
being fed.   Either antenna must have an extensive ground system at each end
and the two ground systems must be tied together with a wire.

If you have the room---- put a groundpole and try it.   Large contest stations
could use towers as the ends or as a way to tie off the antenna ( 10 or 12
elevated radials, too.).   I'll bet W6MUR knew he had a "killer"
transmitting antenna!

73, Dave K4JRB


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.PBI.net!agis!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #588
Date: 9 Dec 95 20:59:30 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

(From: [e-mail] (Sully O'Sullivan) Subject: is it possible
to get on the net with a ham radio?

hi there...
        apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his
ham radio and get onto the net...

        does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this?)

Your uncle is probably operating a packet radio TNC on VHF or perhaps
HF and is accessing the internet through a gateway.  There's quite of
bit of that going on in the amateur community.  The drawback is that
packet is pretty much limited to 1200 baud on VHF in most areas.  There
are some 9600 baud and higher activity, mostly on backbone links.  I
doubt you would be happy utilizing a gateway instead of a full blown
internet access connection, unless it was your only means of access.
Not sure if you could even get e-mail access; mostly telnet and ftp.
de Rick, KN3C




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!agis!news.MWCI.NET!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Sean Heber)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Hamfest, Radiofest, Computer Expo
Date: 9 Dec 1995 04:26:13 GMT
Organization: MidWest Communications, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4ab355$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dbq-pm1-19.mwci.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17548 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13009 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22258 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:11980 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95302 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32135 rec.radio.amateur.space:5894

There will be a Hamfest, Radiofest, Computer Expo in Dubuque, Iowa on
Sept. 8, 1996!

Check out http://galaxy.mwci.net/grarc/top.htm  for more info, or E-Mail
me!

73
Sean

--
--->                               <---
  Sean Heber   Ham Callsign: KB0LCJ
                  ---
     E-Mail: [e-mail]
          OR [e-mail]
   WWW Page: http://galaxy.mwci.net
Leave mail for Sysop on the Galaxy BBS:
[phone]  telnet: galaxy.mwci.net
--->                               <---



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!gwis.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!maas-neotek.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Dean Last)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help tuning 14AVQ
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 01:35:22 GMT
Organization: Wintermute Ltd, Scotland
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4af9e6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dlast.wintermute.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55

Does anybody have the tuning instructions for a 14AVQ antenna. I would
be most grateful for them.

Thanks in advance

Dean GM4THP@GB7ABN

------------------------------------
Dean Last  GM4THP
[e-mail]
--------------------------------------



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!warwick!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.roundabout.org!news.fido.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!serco-wr.demon.co.uk
From: "Tim.C" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: Re: IC706
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 11:50:58 GMT
Organization: Serco Project Engineering Ltd
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <47n930$a3k$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: serco-wr.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.30
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17650 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22463 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95505 uk.radio.amateur:9608

This radio looks like exactly what I want (when I can afford it, and have
got my A).


But why do all these new rigs have to be mobile size !!

I'd much rather have a big rig where the functions aren't hidden down
menus and behind function buttons !!


(Still want one that runs on 12v though.  I like the idea of being able
to run off batteries for portable work !)


    Tim.C
    Trainee BOFH

--... ...--      -.. .      --. --... - .- -.-.

The above views (and spellings) are not necessarily those of my employer.

GCC/IT/MU/S d? s++:--->+ a- C++(---$) U->+++ W++ N+++ w V PS+ PE Y--
PGP- t+ 5++ X++ R* tv++ b++ D++ G e++>++++(*) h* r+++ y**  Geek v3.1


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (DENIS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Increase wind rating of beam
Date: 10 Dec 95 11:53:39 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Hi guys,

Just aquired a used Mosley TA-33 jnr. The handbook with it says that it
is ok up to wind speeds of 80 MPH. Its is good condition but I guess that
the 80 MPH rating is no longer true.
 I heard that wooden dowels in the elements will increase strength- are
they worth the extra weight? Any other way of strenghting up the beam?

73 + thx

Denis


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.jersey.net!news.win.bright.net!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Roger A. Cox <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Increase wind rating of beam
Date: 11 Dec 1995 18:21:31 GMT
Organization: Telex Communications, Inc.
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4ahsrb$d81$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>

You should pick up the ARRL book entitled "Physical Design of
Yagi Antennas" by Dave Leeson.  It tells you all you need to know
about this subject.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio?
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 16:54:03 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4a9qhc$[e-mail]>
References: <4a2i5v$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip181.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Sully O'Sullivan) wrote:

>hi there...
>       apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his
>ham radio and get onto the net...

>       does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this?

>any info would be much appreciated.

To the best of my knowledge, you can send and receive e-mail, however,
a direct connect to the net would in many cases produce unapropriate
replies not acceptable on the Amateur Radio bands and is not
suggested.

Many packet to internet gateways exist and are posted regularly on
packet BBSs.

Gary - KG0ZP





From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!mjo120
From: [e-mail] (Sully O'Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio?
Date: 5 Dec 1995 22:47:27 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4a2i5v$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ascl.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

hi there...
        apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his
ham radio and get onto the net...

        does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this?

any info would be much appreciated.



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!buffnet2.buffnet.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (david james)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: is it possible to get on the net with a ham radio?
Date: 10 Dec 1995 18:19:27 GMT
Organization: BuffNET
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4af8bf$[e-mail]>
References: <4a2i5v$[e-mail]> <4acq1o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dppp50.buffnet.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.2

In article <4acq1o$[e-mail]>, "Robin E. Midgett" <[e-mail]> says:
>
>I have never done that; however it is done via packet radio, the radio link is
>SLOW as molasses. I'm not aware of what you want to do once you establish a radio
>link to the net, but a computerlink is much faster.

I agree .... Packet at 1200 baud is like watching paint dry. Its too bad that once
the ham community developed packet radio into a viable mode they didn't
advance beyond 1200 baud.  Quite typical considering that some still believe
CW should be a requirement  necessary for operating on the low bands.

Unless you intend to run at 56K forget it.

daveb


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!daily-planet.execpc.com!earth.execpc.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Terry Hubbard)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: K6STI loop antenna.
Date: 8 Dec 1995 13:07:07 -0600
Organization: Exec-PC
Lines: 18
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <4aa2cr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: earth.execpc.com

I am looking for opinions on the loop antenna featured in the Sep 95 qst.
If you have built this antenna, I am interested in what you have to say
about it. Also I am having trouble finding variable capacitors in the
range (80pf 500pf) specified in the article. If you have a source please
pass this info along. I can get trimmers that will tune in the range of 7
to 50pf. What type of fixed value capacitor would be most appropriate to
use in 0 with the variable cap. i.e. ceramic, mica etc. I plan to
install the antenna in my attic. I had thought about putting it up above
the roof but I'm not sure there is going to be that much difference 1
foot above or 1 foot below the roof.



--
-----
Terry Hubbard                  Internet:[e-mail]
Cudahy, WI                     Compuserve: 75347,2614



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.seanet.com!gatkins.seanet.com!gatkins
From: [e-mail] (Guy Atkins)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: K6STI loop antenna.
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:40:13 GMT
Organization: OSD, Inc.
Lines: 28
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4aa2cr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gatkins.seanet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]

In article <4aa2cr$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Terry Hubbard) writes:
>From: [e-mail] (Terry Hubbard)
>Subject: K6STI loop antenna.
>Date: 8 Dec 1995 13:07:07 -0600

>I am looking for opinions on the loop antenna featured in the Sep 95 qst.
>If you have built this antenna, I am interested in what you have to say
>about it. Also I am having trouble finding variable capacitors in the
>range (80pf 500pf) specified in the article. If you have a source please

Terry,  I built the antenna at 25 ft. per side, and resonated it for 3300 kHz,
which is the middle of the 90 meterband for tropical band DX that I pursue.

I used a miniature variable 365pf capacitor from a junker transistor AM radio,
and wound the toroid transformer on an Amidon brand core (pri/sec. turns
recalculated).

I am very pleased with how this antenna reduced local powerline noise and also
TV oscillator interference. It could use some extra gain... I haven't tried a
preamp with it yet. However, signals are not reduced much over my other
antennas on the 90 meterband. My terminated, matched "mini" Beverage (350 ft.)
is still my best receiving antenna for reception from Indonesia (my main
interest), but the noise-reducing loop has helped signals from other parts of
the world that are otherwise uncopyable in the hash and RFI junk.

--Guy




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!hoho.quake.net!hilbert.dnai.com!usenet
From: Stan Jacox <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: KLM 34A manual sought
Date: 9 Dec 1995 19:06:43 GMT
Organization: Studio Maintenance Center
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4acmo3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: isdn27-10.dnai.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

I have a KLM 34A the I took apart until I got a new tower.  I've finally
gotten the tower but I can't find my assembly manual.  The elements are
still complete but I don't know which one is which or the correct
placement on the boom.  Does anyone have manual the I can copy?

Stan Jacox  KM6XZ




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.uoregon.edu!cuhknntp!hpg30a.csc.cuhk.hk!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line thoughts
Date: 10 Dec 1995 05:49:14 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4adscq$[e-mail]>
References: <4a4ag6$[e-mail]> <4acco8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <4acco8$[e-mail]>,
W8JI  Tom <[e-mail]> wrote:

>The reason I ask this is I'm a bit confused as to the goal here. I can
>understand how it will lower the SWR, but it certainly won't let you find
>the resistance you desire unless you are very lucky or the stub is a two
>part device.

Hi Tom, assume the resistance we desire is in the range of 25-100
ohms to give us a 50 ohm SWR below 2:1  Using 450 ohm ladder-line
this condition will be met for any ladder-line SWR between 4.5:1
and 18:1  Using 300 ohm ladder-line this condition will be met
for any ladder-line SWR between 3:1 and 12:1  ELNEC says 20m is
the only band that would be outside those limits for a 102 ft
dipole (G5RV). So you only have to be a little lucky to obtain
50 ohm SWRs of less than 2:1 by varying the length of the ladder-
line.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!uknet!news.u-net.com!newsmaster
From: [e-mail] (Garry Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Low Band Dx Antenna
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 22:19:10 GMT
Organization: Garry Walker
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4aib0q$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bonney.u-net.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55

HI there, I have just recently installed a 70 foot tower at a second
home.  My present address comprises of a small plot of land where I
used to have a 30 foot tower and not even enough space for a 40 metres
dipole, however now I have 2 acres of land and the decent tower.  I
have already decided on my antenna system for 20 metres and above,
using 4 element quagi antennas, but I have little experience with the
lower bands.  I am NOT interested in 160 metres, as my home is in
France and the frequencies used on 160 metres are only allowed between
1.830 and 1.850, seems pretty pathetic to me!

Anyway at the moment I use an interverted V antenna on 80 metres at
the 70 foot level, it works quite well for DXing but not I believe
well enough!

I was thinking about shunt feeding the tower with about 60 radials in
the ground, anyone have experince with this?  Also I was thinking of
putting up a delta loop at about 90 feet, again I dont know if it's
worth the effort.

The 4 square system seems to be popular these days but I'm not
bothered about that much effort, I just want to be able to
'comfortably' work DX NOT be the 'big' signal on the band.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Regards Garry

----------------------------------
G0IHB, GX0TEN, F/G0IHB/P

Internet:[e-mail]
Packet:  [e-mail]

----------------------------------



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!ddi2.digital.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Russ)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Low-noise Receiving Antennas
Date: 13 Dec 1995 02:12:40 GMT
Organization: FLORIDA ONLINE, Florida's Premier Internet Provider
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4alcqo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: @204.215.242.167
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

Anyone who has tried the antennas from the September QST articles that
help reject local man-made noise, please pass along your findings.

I'm debating whether to try this one, or a TTFD (for all HF freqs).

Thanks in advance,

Russ LeBlanc



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!ablecom!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: MFJ Artificial Ground in RV?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 17:10:19 PDT
Organization: Able Technical Services
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <NEWTNews.818730924.16497.davef@davef>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.75.37.16
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


I'm having a terrible time trying to load a 40M whip on my Winnebago--sort of
a square, 20' long box with an aluminum skin.  I mounted the whip on the side
near the top rear corner.  I can't get the RF off the rig and wonder if the
lack of an "RF ground" (vs. a DC ground, which I have) is the problem.  Any
thoughts?

Dave
W0RNL



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MFJ Artificial Ground in RV?
Date: 12 Dec 1995 10:42:21 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ak7st$[e-mail]>
References: <NEWTNews.818730924.16497.davef@davef>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <NEWTNews.818730924.16497.davef@davef>, [e-mail]
writes:

>
>I'm having a terrible time trying to load a 40M whip on my
Winnebago--sort of
>
>a square, 20' long box with an aluminum skin.  I mounted the whip on the
side
>
>near the top rear corner.  I can't get the RF off the rig and wonder if
the
>lack of an "RF ground" (vs. a DC ground, which I have) is the problem.
Any
>thoughts?
>
>Dave
>W0RNL

Hi Dave,

Sounds like you need a choke balun in the feedline to the antenna.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news00.sunet.se!sunic!nntp.coast.net!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: MFJ Artificial Ground in RV?
Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:13:25 GMT
Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <NEWTNews.818730924.16497.davef@davef>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net

In article <NEWTNews.818730924.16497.davef@davef>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>I'm having a terrible time trying to load a 40M whip on my Winnebago--sort of
>a square, 20' long box with an aluminum skin.  I mounted the whip on the side
>near the top rear corner.  I can't get the RF off the rig and wonder if the
>lack of an "RF ground" (vs. a DC ground, which I have) is the problem.  Any
>thoughts?
>
>Dave
>W0RNL
>
Dave:
In just the last two months I read an article that dealt, somewhat incidently, with your
problem. If I recall....(the memory isn't really the first to go but its in the top 5)
The article was by one of my favorite ham writers, Doug DeMaw W1FB and it was in CQ
magazine.
He was reviewing the RF isolator made by Radio Works. Its a good review of what this
piece of equipment can do. He mentioned in passing that he used his with a tuner to
"float" the tuner and stop RF feedback in his camper. It stopped all his problems.
If you talk to Radio Works, (ads in both CQ and QST) they could probably help.
Hope this helps.
73 de WB0FDJ


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:56 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newshub.cts.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Minimum element spacing on yagi
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:41:32 GMT
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]

Why is the minimum spacing of elements on a yagi 0.15 times the
wavelength?  What if you try to design one with the elements closer
together (i.e half this distance)?  How does this degrade the
performance of the antenna?  Reduced gain?  Less bandwidth?


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.qnet.com!usenet
From: Will <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mob.ant (screw driver)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 02:52:53 -0800
Organization: Quantum Networking Solutions; Virginia, USA; [e-mail]
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup35.palm.ca.qnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

Hello, I am looking for info on the *screw driver*type mobile antenna.
Is it a kit or are there any plans or??
Any info is welcome.
73 de Will,  KN6DV


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!news.qnet.com!usenet
From: Will <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mob.Antenna info needed
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 02:33:59 -0800
Organization: Quantum Networking Solutions; Virginia, USA; [e-mail]
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup55.palm.ca.qnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

Hello, I would like to get some info about the mobile *screwdriver*
Antenna.
Are there any building plans on can I buy it as a kit?
Any info is welcome.
Thanks 73 de Will,  KN6DV


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!news.jersey.net!news.win.bright.net!brutus.bright.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.supernet.net!news.magicnet.net!usenet
From: Frank Kiehner <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
Date: 10 Dec 1995 04:59:28 GMT
Organization: MagicNet, Inc.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4adpfg$[e-mail]>
References: <4a7j00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm5-12.magicnet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:24916 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17563

Hello,
    Name here is Jeremy, I just got out of C.B.ing and into Amateur
Radio, but I will answer your question about the cellular look alike. as
far as I heard over CB the things work better then the "rubber duck"
antena but the best one I used is probably the 102 inch wip. If you are
looking for somthing smaller then go with a mag mount, still smaller go
with the cellular look alike.

     It depends on your budget and how much space you have on you car.

    Jeremy



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:33:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dfw.nkn.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Chris Dunlap)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:29:22 GMT
Organization: National Knowledge Network
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4ailsv$[e-mail]>
References: <4a7j00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fw39.fastlane.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:24949 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17604

[e-mail] (John L. Scarfone) wrote:

>Now to the question...
>I just saw some antennas at Radio Shack that look just like cell phone
>antennas (coupled through the glass).  That looks perfect if the
>quality is reasonable.  They are specifically listed as CB antennas.
>Does anyone know how well these work?  Would performance be close to
>the whip, somewhere in between, or about the same as the flexible one?
>Any comments would be appreciated here or via e-mail.

>I'm pretty much in the dark on antenna theory.  I've heard that
>ideally, a CB antenna should be about 8.5 ft.  (1/2 wave I think).
>That makes me skeptical about the cell phone-like one but then again,
>I don't know the purpose of that pig-tail in the center of it.  Maybe
>this compensates for the short design?  Thanks again.
>~j

The cellular antenna look alike is not worth a flip. If you call
1-800-THE-SHAC you will be able to ask the guys in there for specs and
you will be able to make up your own mind. This is providing you are
in the USA.




From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!ns3.iamerica.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dave Teague )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mosley PRO-67-C  Anyone using this antenna?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 04:53:00 GMT
Organization: LDS iAmerica
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4ag9e5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ias_ppp0341.iamerica.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I am considering the Pro-67-c for my new HF antenna.  The antenna is
24' boom and 111 lbs.  Windload 12.1 sq. ft. and an $1119.95 pricetag.
Covers 20 thru 10 meters including warc plus 3 elements on 40 meters.


It will be installed at about 80 ft.

If anyone is using this antenna please let me know how it performs,
especially on 40 and 20 meters.

The specs in the Mosley catalog look impressive.




KF5IU  EM31  Jena, LA
[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Robert Scott <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: need help on where to op in ZF
Date: 12 Dec 1995 23:53:21 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4al4lh$prh$[e-mail]>
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17642 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95489

I am going to the Cayman Islands next month, but i am staying in
a luxury hotel-the Hyatt. Does anyone know a ham that might let
me make some Q's from their qth? I would pay them for the use of
their station. TU..Rob wr3y


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:02 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!news3.noc.netcom.net!zdc!zippo!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dan Vitale)
Subject: Need Motor for Daiwa MR-750 Rotator
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+
Sender: [e-mail]
Nntp-Posting-Host: pmdyn72.bcoe.butte.k12.ca.us
Organization: Butte Schools
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 18:20:03 GMT
Lines: 7

I have a Daiwa rotator model MR-750. They dont make it anymore
and they dont support it anymore either. Does anyone know if someone,
after market, still supports it. I need a motor for it. I would be
willing to buy one from someone, that is the whole rotator, if someone
had one to sell.
I would appreciate any comments or helpful suggestions.
Tnx. Dan Vitale. KD6P.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster
From: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: network connection lost
Date: 9 Dec 1995 06:37:44 GMT
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4abaro$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd11-001.compuserve.com
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-length: 0
X-Newsreader: AIR Mosaic (16-bit) version 1.00.198.07





From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:04 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!grian!morris
From: [e-mail] (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: New Office, No Reception!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: College Park Software, Altadena, CA
References: <berken-0712950825040001@205.242.4.32>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:25:06 GMT
Lines: 39

[e-mail] (Bob Berken) writes:

>I recently started a new job and I'm having problems picking up any a.m.
>stations. The radio I'm using is a portable Sony CDF-450, your standard
>small stereo. The building I'm in is a 24 floor complex. Any suggestions?

Check your windows for a metallic coating - some of the newer buildings
use it to reflect IR, thereby lowering the cooling bills. The stuff
also makes a good RF shield.

One trick a friend is using to get AM to work is to use a pair of .001uf
1kv cap from the antenna jack to the phone line.  This assumes that
neither side of the antenna connector is hooked to the chassis,
therefore to the ground pin of the power cord. If so, you may need
a toroid transformer for the AM band.


phone line -----------------| |----------------- radio ant hot
phone line ---------------------| |--------------radio ant cold


An alternate connection - one that I used a long time ago...

one side of phone line -----------------| |----------------- radio ant hot

ground (3rd prong - not the neutral!)
pin of AC outlet ---------------------| |--------radio ant cold

One idiot I worked with used the above with the antenna hot lead wired
through the capacitor to the neutral side of the power plug - I
personally don't like trusting that the caps would protect me or
my radio from any random AC outlet having hot and neutral swapped.
Then again back in the 50s some of the AC-DC 5-tube radios used the
power line decoupled by a capacitor as the antenna....
--
---
Mike Morris                                [e-mail]
#include <disclaimer.std.h>        I have others, but this works the best.
   This message assembled from 100% recycled electrons (and pixels).


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (RICK LUTZ)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: plans for copper tubing jpole
Date: 11 Dec 1995 22:49:00 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aiu3c$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (RICK LUTZ)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I am trying to locate the plans for a copper tubing (about 1/2 or 3/4 in)
jpole. a friend wants to build one up and i am concerned about velocity
factors and spacing and would like a proven plan. thanks

73--KD4SEV


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:06 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Program for log-peroidic design
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 21:51:24 GMT
Lines: 3
Sender: [e-mail]

There is a program called YAGIMAX for desiging and evaluating yagis, is
there a similar program for log-periodic design.  Preferably one where
you input desired gain, bandwidth, frequency, etc.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!newsspool.wisc.edu!news.wisc.edu!lumkes
From: [e-mail] (John Lumkes)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad vs. Yagi polarization and gain?
Date: 12 Dec 1995 15:55:24 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin--Madison
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4ak8lc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hp-28.cae.wisc.edu

I am planning on building a quad or yagi 2m beam for experimenting
with longer distances on low power. I understand the polarization
for a yagi and have seen how to feed a quad for vertical polarization
(Jan95 QST). Is the quad true vertical polarization or just some
portion of it? In light of this, does a quad or yagi of a given beam
length exhibit more gain (useful gain) in terms of hitting other
vertical antennas?

Thanks, John AA9QP  [e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.rcinet.com!sally.dma.org!millersg
From: [e-mail] (Steve Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi polarization and gain?
Date: 12 Dec 1995 18:47:58 GMT
Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio, USA
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4akiou$[e-mail]>
References: <4ak8lc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dmapub.dma.org

In article <4ak8lc$[e-mail]>,
John Lumkes <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I am planning on building a quad or yagi 2m beam for experimenting
>with longer distances on low power. I understand the polarization
>for a yagi and have seen how to feed a quad for vertical polarization
>(Jan95 QST). Is the quad true vertical polarization or just some
>portion of it?

Yes.

>In light of this, does a quad or yagi of a given beam
>length exhibit more gain (useful gain) in terms of hitting other
>vertical antennas?

If suitably optimized, a quad will give you slightly more gain than a
yagi. The difference is maybe 2 dB at best and decreases for antennas having
long boom lengths (in terms of wavelength) and many elements.


--
Steve Miller
[e-mail]
WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad vs. Yagi polarization and gain?
Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:20:59 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4am5tr$[e-mail]>
References: <4ak8lc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

Both quad or yagi will produce vertical polarization, if fed / oriented
accordingly. A two elememt quad has 2 - 3 dB gain over a yagi, as you add
more elements, this advantage gradually disappears. The four element quad is
quite good for its boom length, with about 8 or so dBd.

In vertical polarization the main problem is the interference of the support
and feed line. you can either have a short quad (or yagi) mounted in front
of your mast or two yagis stacked side by side and supported by a horizontal
boom.




73, Moritz DL5UH


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: quarter wave is batter?
Date: 10 Dec 1995 10:57:26 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4af016$[e-mail]>
References: <4aepdu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4aepdu$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Wanna Hemasuk - SRNS) writes:

>       i am just curious why is my quarter wave batter than 5/8 c-load
>in down town. on urban highway c-load is the best for
>2-meter mobile. but not for road which has tall buildings obstruct.
>       i receive QRK5 s meter half by my 1/4 but QRK2-3 s2-3 by 5/8
>and 0.5W send is full scale by 1/4 , 3W send is the same for 5/8
>why???? 0dbi gain is batter than +3dbi
>
>regards
>wanna H.
>HS1LHT

The 5/8 wl only has the 3dB gain when above a very large (d<5 wL) perfect
groundplane.  5/8 wl gain is not  3 dB in real world conditionss.

The 5/8 wl has a pattern split into two lobes. At close distances the high
antenna may be in the middle of the 5/8 pattern null.

The 5/8 WL does offer some height advantage. It is good only at a distance
and with a mobile. It helps get above other objects.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!mhv.net!news.westnet.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!senior.nectec.or.th!news.mahidol.ac.th!mucc!srwhm
From: [e-mail] (Wanna Hemasuk - SRNS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: quarter wave is batter?
Date: 10 Dec 1995 14:04:46 GMT
Organization: Mahidol University, Thailand
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4aepdu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.14.162.1
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

        i am just curious why is my quarter wave batter than 5/8 c-load
in down town. on urban highway c-load is the best for
2-meter mobile. but not for road which has tall buildings obstruct.
        i receive QRK5 s meter half by my 1/4 but QRK2-3 s2-3 by 5/8
and 0.5W send is full scale by 1/4 , 3W send is the same for 5/8
why???? 0dbi gain is batter than +3dbi

regards
wanna H.
HS1LHT
QRU 73

--
        *************************************************************
        * Wanna Hemasuk      Siriraj Hospital      Bangkok Thailand *
        * [e-mail]               Mahidol University *
        *************************************************************



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!aztec.asu.edu!cjpratsj
From: [e-mail] (CAMILLE J. PRAT, SJ)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: READ PLEASE!!!
Date: 9 Dec 1995 04:07:26 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe, AZ (USA)
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <4ab21u$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (CAMILLE J. PRAT, SJ)
NNTP-Posting-Host: aztec.asu.edu


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Roch Leclerc) says:

                        --- snip ---

>By following the following instructions, I recieved over $50,000 dollars
>in about 45 days.  Paid off my bills, and was able to hold my apartment
>and car.  This whole experience has restored my credit and my faith in
>others.  Give it a try...It really works!
>
>- Susan in Atlanta
>
>INSTRUCTIONS:
>
>Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days, you will have
>recieved over $50,000 in cash.
>
>1.)  Immediatly send $1.00 to the first 5 names listed below.  Starting a
>number 1 through number 5, SEND CASH ONLY. (total investments: $5.00 +
>postage) Enclose a letter with a note saying:  "Please add my name to your
>mailing list."  Include your name and mailing address.  This is a
>legitimate
>service that you are requesting and you are paying $1.00 for this service.
>
>2.)  Remove the name that appears as Number 1 on the list.  Move the other 9
>names up one position.
>
>3.)  With your name at the number 10 spot, upload this ENTIRE file to 15
>different BBS's.  If you are unsure how to do this, upload the message to
>15 newsgroups other than one's where it has already been posted.  You may
>also post it in a message base at a BBS, or in the file section. NEED CASH
>FAST?.TXT.  and use the file description comments to draw attention to
>this file.
>
>4.)  Within 60 days, you will receive over $50,000 in CASH.  Keep a copy of
>this file for yourself so that you can use it again and again whenever you
>need money.  As soon as you mail out these letters, you are automatically in
>the mail order buisness.  People will be sending you $1.00 to be placed on
>your mailing list.  This list can be then be rented to a broker that can be
>found in your yellow pages for additional income on a regular basis.
>
>
>This will more valuable as it grows in size.  This is a service, and it is
>PERFECTLY LEGAL!  If you have any doubts to the legalityof this service,
>please refer to Title 18,h sections 1302 NS 1341 of the postal lottery
>laws.
>
>
>Note: Make sure you keep every name and address sent to you.  This is PROOF
>that you are truly providing a service, and should the I.R.S question you,
>you can provide them with this proof!
>
>Remember, as each post is downloaded and the instructions carefully followed,
>5 members will be reimbursed for thier participation as List Developers with
>$1.00 each.  Your name will move up on the list so that when it reaches
>number 5, you will be recieving thousands of dollars in cash!
>
>REMEMBER:  THIS PROGRAM WILL ONLY FAIL IF YOU ARE NOT HONEST, PLEASE BE
>HONORABLE..IT DOES WORK!
>
>
>
>1.  B.T. Dawkins Jr.  P.O. Box 133 Berea, OH. 44017
>
>2.  Johnny L. Wilson 5006 Scots Pine Court Hephzibah, Ga. 30815
>
>3.  Chris Camuglia 1 Old Hickory Drive 2B Albany, NY 12204
>
>4.  George Bickle 2161 Hwy. 508 Onalaska Wa. 98570
>
>5.  Debeta Enterprises P.O. Box 4615 Boynton Beach, Fl. 33424
>
>6.  I. Trevino 1 Couger Place Dr. #806 Houston, TX, 77004
>
>7.  J.W. Conners 1314 Berwick Ave. Atlanata Ga. 30306
>
>8.  Brian Corrigan, 9 Brightonwood Rd. Glenmont, NY 12077
>
>9. Alison Ellis, 459 Blue Blossom Lane, Eureka, CA 95503
>
>10. Roch Leclerc, 20 Des Noisetiers, App.306, Hull, Canada, J8Z 2M2
>

 ----- Sigh! Another variation on an old theme: the pyramid scam...

                          Beware!

--

            Camille Prat  KB7LBN  [ [e-mail] ]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Jerryke7ua)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Repeater Antennas
Date: 8 Dec 1995 16:59:02 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 37
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aacf6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Repeater Operators:

Noise Problem

A Hustler G-6 was used for several years, but was damaged by the wind and
replaced by the Cushcraft stacked dipoles about a year ago. Great care was
taken to make sure the connections to the phasing harness was sound,
taped, and Scotch Coated, but a problem has developed.

Arcing may be  taking place at one of the connections or the gamma arms???
Or intermod???  When the transmitter is up, you can hear a signal mixing
with the intended. The problem seems to be temperature related as well.
When the temp is below 40 F the interferring signal goes away.  Various
tests have been made to check the present antenna for SWR, and a Time
Domain Reflectometer was used on the feedline (7/8" hardline) - all OK.
The transmitter was checked with a Spectrum Analyzer - clean.  Reducing
the transmit power does not effect any change.

We are concerned about the use of PL259 connections on the Cushcraft, and
we're now looking at making another antenna change. Anyone using Cushcraft
stacked dipoles on a repeater??

Anyone have experience with the Comet or the Diamond antennas (fiberglass)
 as a repeater antenna.  I'm sure the best approach would be to use a
commercial grade antenna, but due to limited funds, we're considering
alternatives.

Your comments and experience are welcomed. Thanks again.

73

Jerry  KE7UA - Livonia, MI
EX - WA8HHM, WB4QVD, WB8LNF & DL4PY

Requested on behalf of my brothers, WB8NJS - Denny & K8ARE - Nelson.

147.225  located in Bethel, Ohio (Clermont County).


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!news.sojourn.com!condor.ic.net!news.cic.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Repeater Antennas
Date: 11 Dec 1995 02:03:07 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4ag3gr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

  I've seen antennas go bad in commercial duplex service.  Usually, they
crackle badly as they rock in the wind.  But what you describe sounds to
me as though your transmitter, or perhaps some other transmitter at your
tower site, may have spurs when it's warm.  Of course, depending on which
band you are on, and what kind of connectors you used, you could also be
seeing the problems which prompted GE to disadvise the use of nickel plated
connectors on 800 MHz.  I can't speak from experience there, I can only
tell you that's what GE said 10 years ago, and I hear the same from other
sources.  Good silver-plated "N" connectors seem to be your best bet for
duplex, especially on UHF.  There are some cheap, rough-surface silver
plated connectors around; avoid them.

  You may not have many days with temps above 40 degrees until next year,
but if you do, go up with a spectrum analyzer and inspect for spectral
purity around your tower.  If you problem is only a heterodyne, it is not
severe enough for me to assume it is caused by a bad antenna contact,
except possibly at the level of dissimilar-metal IM.  I suspect a thermal
spur somewhere up there, likely in your own transmitter.

  Certain transmitter designs are more likely to go spurious than
others.  In particular, look out for cheap designs that use high per-stage
gain to achieve low transistor count and high efficiency.  Yes, the
batteries may last longer, but the transmitters are very much more
sensitive to mistuning.  Small amounts of reflected power can throw them
into spurious oscillation.  If this is your problem, get a trombone slide
VSWR checker, a good directional wattmeter, and tune the transmitter hot,
while checking to ensure that you can really pull the VSWR around without
the station going spurious.  If this seems stupid, it is; better to have
5 dB per stage, and one more driver stage, but people get dollar signs in
their eyeballs...

  Also make sure reflected power from the duplexer is not excessive,
especially when hot.  A duplexer may get significantly out of tune when
hot, and this may make it get hotter!  Tune it hot, at reduced power or
with a network analyzer if at all possible (less sparking inside).  A
mistuned duplexer can really throw the VSWR out of joint.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Repeater Antennas
Date: 12 Dec 1995 02:22:20 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4aip0s$[e-mail]>
References: <4ag3gr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1916.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

>  I've seen antennas go bad in commercial duplex service.  Usually, they
>crackle badly as they rock in the wind.  But what you describe sounds to
>me as though your transmitter, or perhaps some other transmitter at your
>tower site, may have spurs when it's warm.  Of course, depending on

Same experience here. I have had this "hetrodyne" symptom at 2 sites over
the last few years. Both times there was a distinct relationship to
ambient temperature changes. Both times it was a problem with the
duplexers. Both times it made me crazy and I got more gray hair.
Heehee... Just my experiences...

73 de WB4IUY



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!news.service.uci.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Brian Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Repeater Antennas
Date: 11 Dec 1995 22:41:21 GMT
Organization: UCI Medical Center
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4aic2h$[e-mail]>
References: <4aacf6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin9010.slip.uci.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

In article <4aacf6$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Repeater Operators:
>
>Noise Problem
>
>A Hustler G-6 was used for several years, but was damaged by the wind and
>replaced by the Cushcraft stacked dipoles about a year ago. Great care was
>taken to make sure the connections to the phasing harness was sound,
>taped, and Scotch Coated, but a problem has developed.

>Anyone have experience with the Comet or the Diamond antennas (fiberglass)
>as a repeater antenna.  I'm sure the best approach would be to use a
>commercial grade antenna, but due to limited funds, we're considering
>alternatives.

>Your comments and experience are welcomed. Thanks again.

>Jerry  KE7UA - Livonia, MI
>EX - WA8HHM, WB4QVD, WB8LNF & DL4PY
>Requested on behalf of my brothers, WB8NJS - Denny & K8ARE - Nelson.
>147.225  located in Bethel, Ohio (Clermont County).

Jerry, I have no suggestions for your problem mentioned at the start
of your message, however, I can answer your question about using
Diamond and Comet antennas as a repeater antenna.  They are not
as rugged as SOME of the commercial antennas, but if you are not
in an extremely windy location, they will hold up nicely.  Mine
(a Comet) has been in service for 2.  One problem showed up in the
base load section and was repaired by Comet.  The only other disadvantage
IMO is the lack of any downward tilt in radiation pattern which
exists in SOME of the commercial antennas.  This can make a difference
when on a high mountain top repeater location.
(I know what it's like to be shy on funds.)
Anyway, good luck on your installation.  I'm using the 17'6" (approx)
Comet and a friend of mine is using Diamonds version of the same thing.

73, Brian  N6ZAU



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: L. Figueroa <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RF Circuit Designer
Date: 10 Dec 1995 07:46:00 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4ae37o$nt9$[e-mail]>

I am looking for an RF circuit designer to work on an exciting
project dealing with SHF Active Phased Arrays. Experience with
MIMIC design tools and RF packing is highly desirable. Please
FAX your resume to: L. Figueroa, 206-773-3593: E-Mail to:
[e-mail].

--
LF


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:19 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!charles1
From: [e-mail] (charles copeland)
Subject: RG-58 cripples antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:34:01 GMT
Lines: 11
Sender: [e-mail]

I live in a first story apartment and own a TS-820. I use a 64 foot
dipole strung along top of wall. Up to yesterday I did not even have
coax, but just had a banana plug running up to one leg of dipole.
It loaded fine, and was able to achieve 1:1 SWR on 40, 80 meters.

I tried to pretty it up and added 10' of RG-58 to top of wall and
split out to dipole. When I did this my SWR went to 1:2 on 80 meters
and was not quit as good on 40 meters. I used a T-1000 tuner.

Why did my SWR drop so badly with such a small peice of RG-58?



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dfw.nkn.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Chris Dunlap)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 03:25:03 GMT
Organization: National Knowledge Network
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4ailkr$[e-mail]>
References: <3s1h6k$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fw39.fastlane.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Jason Smith) wrote:

>Could anyone recommend a good scanner costing under 75$'s for a Uniden
>Bearcat BC700A that has 800\900mhz frequencys?

I find that the discone antenna from Radio Shack works well when you
buy a male to male adapter and affix a 102" steel whip to it. I get
everything!

Chris D



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.bluesky.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (BAWASSELL)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Spacing phased verticals
Date: 12 Dec 1995 21:36:43 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ale7r$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (BAWASSELL)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I am considering phasing 2 verticals for 40 meters but
the "convenient" distance is 37.5 feet.   These would be
elevated on 20 ft masts attached to each side of my garage.
I thought of 90 degree phasing with a switch network to
reverse the pattern (NNE or SSW).  This arrangement is
described in the ARRL antenna book on page 8-29, Fig. 33
(1994 edition).  What happends if
I space them 37.5 rather than the 33 feet (1/4 wavelength).
If anyone has experience with this, your comments welcome.
I have had good success with a 4BTV, but I am looking for
something better (of course).      Thanks.         Terry,    K3JT.
respond to [e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Spacing phased verticals
Date: 13 Dec 1995 09:08:50 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 19
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ammpi$[e-mail]>
References: <4ale7r$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4ale7r$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(BAWASSELL) writes:

>What happends if
>I space them 37.5 rather than the 33 feet (1/4 wavelength).
>If anyone has experience with this, your comments welcome.
>I have had good success with a 4BTV, but I am looking for
>something better (of course).      Thanks.         Terry,    K3JT.

Hi Terry,
On 7.15 MHz a 1/4 spacing is 34.4 feet, not 33. The spacing isn't critical
if you re-adjust the phase to match. As the spacing is increased from 1/4
wl with end-fire phasing  the main lobe keeps flattening out and getting
wider. It eventually dimples in and splits into two or more lobes.

But it is a very slow process, so your few extra feet hardly makes a
difference if the phasing is re-adjusted to compensate.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 19:09:17 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4aja73$[e-mail]>
References: <4abom7$[e-mail]> <4accoa$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>Why not use one of the other polys? Teflon isn't any lower loss than
>most of them, and they are cheaper yet.
>
>But what about water?

It goes good with Scotch. (?)

>Now here's a stupid answer..
>Actually, I use zip cord and regular wall plugs for my antennas. That
>way I don't need a rig, I just plug the antenna directly into the
>outlet. I'm the guy with all the hum.....    zzzzzzzzzzzz ;-)

I load my rig into the phone line.  By calling different cities, I
can resonate the line on different frequencies.  The new fiber plants
are ruining the radiation pattern though.  :)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.third-wave.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary Valentine)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: TH6-DXX  Tri-Bander for sale
Date: 5 Dec 1995 02:20:00 GMT
Organization: Third Wave Development
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4a0a8h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp5.third-wave.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6

My name is Gary Valentine.  My call sign is N3EVP.  I have a Hy-Gain

 TH6-DXX "Super Thunderbird" for sale.  It is undamaged but was in use
 for 5 years on a 30 foot tower located in Pennsylvania.  It worked well
for me but I am
selling it now because my father, W3VWA, became a silent key 6 years ago
 and I inherited all his equipment which is better than mine.

The specifications of the TH6-DXX are as follows:

        1) Input impedance - 52 ohms
        2) Forward gain - 10 meters=9.5, 15 meters=8.5 and 20 meters=8.0 dB
        3) Front to Back ratio - 25 dB
        4) Max. power input - 1000 watts
        5) Boom length - 24 feet
        6) Longest element - 31 feet

My QTH is in Pennsylvania. Reply by E-mail ([e-mail]) or land
line (814-893-5696).


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: twisted pair cable
Date: 9 Dec 1995 16:35:33 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 5
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4acdsl$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

During the 1930's, before coax was available, there was a
cable called EO-1 twisted pair RF transmission line. Not
sure about its Z0 but I think it was about 70 Ohms.  I
believe Amphenol made it.  I saw some of it, and it was
a kind of "tarry" looking stuff.


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:26 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!miwok!news.scruz.net!cruzio.com!pine222
From: [e-mail] (David Wells)
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Organization: cruzio
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:18:37 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: pine222.cruzio.com
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The News UID)
Lines: 18

[e-mail] (Jack Ray) wrote:
>
>What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a
>pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but
>still quite strong?
>

I work for a marine supply retailer and we sell fiberglass antenna
extensions for VHF and cellular antennas. They range in length
from 1' to 13' (1,4,8 &13). They are about 1" dia and can be
screwed together. They would require a bracket part way up to
properly brace them (we sell that also). So as not to be commercial
I will not mention who I work for but they are available at most marine
supply stores. I may screw some together at work and see how stable
they are.

Dave KD6TO



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!infoseek.com!nntp-hub.barrnet.net!inet-nntp-gw-1.us.oracle.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!news.primenet.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Date: 10 Dec 1995 08:23:11 -0700
Organization: Primenet Services for the Internet
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aeu0v$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4a72qd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Posted-By: ip076.phx.primenet.com
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.9d - NLS

     Unguyed masts are unsafe. Some short lengths may be stable, but are not at a
useful height. Merely citing an instance were a mast has not bent, broke or otherwise
failed is not proof enough.
     The only way to properly find the length for a safe unguyed mast is through some
stress and bending moment calculations.
     Your homeowners insurance will not blindly pay for the damages caused by poor
installations.

Jim N7TCF


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!cgreenha
From: [e-mail] (Christopher K Greenhalgh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer?
Date: 8 Dec 1995 23:14:25 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4aagsh$[e-mail]>
References: <4aaccl$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

In article <4aaccl$[e-mail]>, Keith O. Berry <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I would like to here from anyone who has mounted a VHF/UHF antenna on their
>Ford Explorer.  I have a '96 witha moonroof and park in a garage, so the
>antenna drags going in and out.  With the exception of mounting on the fender
>in front of the driver, where else has anyone mounted one??
>
>Thanks,
>Keith

A friend of mine has a Blazer w/sunroof that parks in a garage...he uses a
Diamond dual bander that has the 'fold-down' mounting base. Works good, but
you must be perpared to 'fold' it everytime you go in or out.    :)

BTW, he has ran it through the car wash as well in the 'down' position with
no adverse effect.

73.

--
  +=================================+===================================+
  |Christopher K. Greenhalgh, N8WCT |[e-mail] |
  |Electronic/Computer Tech. @ OSU  |radio: n8wct@w8cqk.#cmh.oh.usa.noam|
  +=================================+===================================+


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.ecn.bgu.edu!feenix.metronet.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Kelly Qualls)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer?
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 18:50:08 GMT
Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc  (login info (214/705-2901 - 817/571-0400))
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4ahuga$[e-mail]>
References: <4aaccl$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal90.metronet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Keith O. Berry) wrote:

>I would like to here from anyone who has mounted a VHF/UHF antenna on their
>Ford Explorer.  I have a '96 witha moonroof and park in a garage, so the
>antenna drags going in and out.  With the exception of mounting on the fender
>in front of the driver, where else has anyone mounted one??

You might consider two antennas, a shorter one for in-town use, and
one with some gain (longer) when you need it.  ANLI, I think, makes a
short dual band (2 meters/70 cm) antenna (a cellular look-alike) with
minimal gain (2 db on 2 meters, 3.5 I think on 70 cm).  If that
antenna is short enough to clear the garage, put that up there for
in-town use, and purchase a higher gain antenna for weekend use, out
of town use on the highway, or whenever you need extra gain.

Hope this helps.

73, and good luck.

Kelly Qualls
[e-mail]





From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.oberlin.edu!ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu!PRUTH
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What's a good cheap wide-range antenna tuner?
Date: 8 Dec 1995 20:26:05 GMT
Organization: Oberlin College, Oberlin, Ohio
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4aa70t$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: alpha.cc.oberlin.edu

I want to use my trap dipole at the edges of 80m and for the
> WARC bands, and even 160m if I can do it with a 105' long 5-band
> trap designed for 80-10.  I'm currently using the tiny MFJ
> random-wire transmatch which works surprisingly well for the
> 5 non-WARC bands.  I'm considering the MFJ 949E 300w ATU
> which looks good for the price, but wonder if maybe it's not as
> wide-range a tuner as I'd like--that maybe one of those roller
> inductor ATUs might do what I want to do.  Suggestions?
> Thanks.  --Bill KB8USZ  [e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster
From: [e-mail] (Doug Alspaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Which HF Vertical
Date: 12 Dec 1995 18:57:45 GMT
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4akjb9$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <49j43t$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dd22-023.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: OUI 1.0.1

There is an article in the current World Radio and disputes your claim about the Gap and other radialess verticals. Even vertically mounted dipoles suffer

73 Doug WA6IEL



From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!news.unb.ca!scratchy.mi.net!litigate
From: [e-mail] (litigate)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTB: 40 METER YAGI
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 01:34:32 GMT
Organization: MIS Fredericton
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4alaj8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: litigate.mi.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

I'm semi-interested in buying a 2 element yagi for 40 meters. It needs to
be UPS-shippable to Maine. Anyone have anything? Which models should I
avoid? Thanks.

Rick VE9HF


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:32 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Yagis and multipath
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 02:55:33 GMT
Lines: 37
Sender: [e-mail]

I was experimenting with a commercial Winegard FM antenna.  This antenna,
intended for reception on the 88-108Mhz band only,is about 10 1/2 feet
long.  The boom is a 1" square, metal.  There are 10 pairs of elements
which are about 1 feet apart, though somewhat irregularly spaced.  In
each pair of elements, one is "above" the boom, and the other is "below"
it.  The "above" and "below" alternates sides for each pair of elements.
Thus, there are two planes of elements about 1" apart.  The front 5 pairs
are directors.  The back 5 pairs are all drive elements which tie
together to a balun with a 75-ohm coax output.  There are no parasitic
elements (i.e. reflectors) in the back.

A "normal" yagi of this length would have about 10-12db gain I would
suppose.  What is the rationale behind designing with multiple drive
elements (each one wired out of phase with its neighbors)?  Does this
increase gain appreciably?

I got rather curious results.  The front part with 3 director pairs is a
separate assembly.  I tried it first with just the back part with 2
director and 5 drive pairs.  This seemed to work just slightly better
than a dipole made of TV wire.  It would max out in the direction of the
station and null about 90 degrees off as expected.  Then I tried adding
the front assembly.  First, I only unfolded the directors nearest the
rest of the antenna.  This would seem to increase the gain for each pair
of directors added, but instead, the gain (i.e. received signal) went
way down when adding one or more sets of directors here.

It seems that the front part of the antenna is located in a "null" area
created by multipath.  So, I am faced with a difficult situation.  A
high-gain antenna is needed to overcome multipath.  Yet a high-gain
antenna is more than a wavelength long, and it is not possible to have
the entire length of the antenna in a strong signal area.   Or is only
the front-most element the one which has to be getting strong signal.  I
hope this is not the case because the room I am in only has (relatively)
strong signal at the place FARTHEST from the station.

Anyone have any suggestions?  Perhaps some other kind of design which can
increase gain but is not as long?


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!isc-newsserver.isc.rit.edu!jdc3538
From: [e-mail] (CRONIN)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Yagis and multipath
Date: 10 Dec 1995 16:54:42 GMT
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4af3ci$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grace.isc.rit.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, Steve Work <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I was experimenting with a commercial Winegard FM antenna.  This antenna,
>intended for reception on the 88-108Mhz band only,is about 10 1/2 feet
>long.  The boom is a 1" square, metal.  There are 10 pairs of elements
>which are about 1 feet apart, though somewhat irregularly spaced.  In
>each pair of elements, one is "above" the boom, and the other is "below"
>it.  The "above" and "below" alternates sides for each pair of elements.
>...

I have an FM-only antenna similar to what you describe.  It's a log periodic
"V" with added directors.

>A "normal" yagi of this length would have about 10-12db gain I would
>suppose.  What is the rationale behind designing with multiple drive
>elements (each one wired out of phase with its neighbors)?  Does this
>increase gain appreciably?

I think they use log periodic antennas for extra bandwidth.  The ARRL
Antenna book has a section on log periodic antennas.

>...
>It seems that the front part of the antenna is located in a "null" area
>created by multipath.  So, I am faced with a difficult situation.  A
>high-gain antenna is needed to overcome multipath.  Yet a high-gain
>antenna is more than a wavelength long, and it is not possible to have
>the entire length of the antenna in a strong signal area.   Or is only
>the front-most element the one which has to be getting strong signal.  I
>hope this is not the case because the room I am in only has (relatively)
>strong signal at the place FARTHEST from the station.
>
>Anyone have any suggestions?  Perhaps some other kind of design which can
>increase gain but is not as long?

If knew how to increase gain but not length I wouldn't be sitting here...
Amateur VHF/UHF enthusiasts tend to use the manliest antenna they can
find, the bigger the better.  You can also get more out of your antenna
by getting it farther up.

73..Jim  N2VNO


From Unknown Wed Dec 13 14:34:35 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!fconvx.ncifcrf.gov!mack
From: [e-mail] (Joe Mack)
Subject: Re: Yagis and multipath
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:03:31 GMT
Lines: 26

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Work) writes:
>I was experimenting with a commercial Winegard FM antenna.  This antenna,
>intended for reception on the 88-108Mhz band only,is about 10 1/2 feet
>long.  The boom is a 1" square, metal.  There are 10 pairs of elements
>which are about 1 feet apart, though somewhat irregularly spaced.  In
>each pair of elements, one is "above" the boom, and the other is "below"
>it.  The "above" and "below" alternates sides for each pair of elements.
>Thus, there are two planes of elements about 1" apart.  The front 5 pairs
>are directors.  The back 5 pairs are all drive elements which tie
>together to a balun with a 75-ohm coax output.  There are no parasitic
>elements (i.e. reflectors) in the back.
>
>A "normal" yagi of this length would have about 10-12db gain I would
>suppose.  What is the rationale behind designing with multiple drive
>elements (each one wired out of phase with its neighbors)?  Does this
>increase gain appreciably?

The driven elements are a log-periodic array. It's wide bandwidth but
reduced gain compared to a yagi of the same length.


Joe NA3T [e-mail]






From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: !! High Tech WWW Site !!
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 06:46:08 PDT
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <NEWTNews.818952380.14699.amsoft@486dx4_120>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lwbyppp57.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12123 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22520 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13110 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17675


Covering Amateur Radio, Electronics, Engineering, Space, Scanners
Shortwave, and many more interesting Technical Areas.  Includes
0ver 400 WWW links, and a link to our September 95 CD-ROM archive
with over 23,000 files online.  Very HOT High Tech WWW Site

          http://hamster.business.uwo.ca/~amsoft/

         Surf The High Tech World from here today!





From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@safe.ia.GOV
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 14 Dec 95 19:45:05 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

>From /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/ Thu Dec 14 13:50:10 CST 1995 remote from osiint.safe.ia.gov
Date: 14 Dec 1995 13:44:35 -0600
X400-Trace: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS
        arrival 14 Dec 1995 13:44:35 -0600
        action Relayed
From: /PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@osiint.safe.ia.gov
To: "/RFC-822=Ham-Ant(a)UCSD.EDU/OU=OSI-INTERNET/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/"@osiint.safe.ia.gov
In-Reply-To: <"\"/RFC-822=199512132242.OAA17331(a)mail.ucsd.edu/OU=OSI-INTERNET/O=WALLACE/PRMD=IADPS/ADMD=ATTMAIL/C=US/\""@osiint.safe.ia.gov>
Subject: G5RV question
Importance: normal
Autoforwarded: FALSE
Message-Id: <werl1214132914aa*/PN=Scott.C.Werling/O=wallace/PRMD=iadps/ADMD=attmail/C=us/@osiint.safe.ia.gov>
P1-Message-Id: US*ATTMAIL*IADPS;IDPS3550 werl1214132914aa
UA-Content-Id: werl1214132914aa
P1-Content-Type: P2
Priority: normal
Received: from osiint.safe.ia.gov by iadpshub.safe.ia.gov; Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:50 CST
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1286

> Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:54:31 GMT
> From: [e-mail] (Chris Dorn)
> Subject: Grounding problem with G5RV?
>
> Hello,
>     I would appreciate some advice on the following. My antenna system
> has been a G5RV about 25ft. up, connected to about 8ft of RG8 coax. The

> stage were maybe getting around the problem. I therefore connected a wire
> to ground stake to the antenna tuner, added 50ft of coax, and moved the
> rig away from the antenna. I can now get an SWR of about 1:9 to 1, but
> that is still somewhat dissapointing, and that's what I get with the tube
> rigs now. Before with the tube rigs I would get 1:1 to 1. The ground rod
> I am using is probably not very good, a rather thin stake about 2 to 3Ft
> down. I can't do much as far as a new ground rod until spring thaw. Any
> comments on this, and has anyone else had problems like this with a G5RV
> and solid state vs. tube rigs?
> Thanks,
> Chris VE6RDC
Hi Chris, I built a G5RV for my Knwd TS140 and with an MFJ ant tuner works
just fine.  I have ladder line from the antenna at 34' then about 30' of coax
to the shack.  It is #12 wire connected to the well head outside the house.
Seems to work fine.
Scott N0XZY     [e-mail]



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (IRAKLIS MAVROKEFALOS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 15 Dec 95 04:11:37 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe Iraklis Mavrokefalos



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (IRAKLIS MAVROKEFALOS)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 17 Dec 95 02:24:57 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

HELP



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 16 Dec 95 14:42:09 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <9512161442.AA19320@clark>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news.microsoft.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Eric E. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 10 meter vertical
Date: 14 Dec 1995 14:00:51 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4apamj$[e-mail]>
References: <4aaflo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.56.124.46
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14

In article <4aaflo$[e-mail]>, <Unknown> says...
>
>What is a good vertical for 10 meters ?  I'm using a Hust. 4btv but
>want to go to monoband ten meter vertical.
>
On 10m you can tune down a lot of 11m CB antenna's.  I have an Antron 99
wich has tunning rings on it. By turrning the rings you can tune it down
to 10m.  This is a 5/8th wave antenna.  I found out of the box it didn't
have a bad SWR on 10m without tunning it.

Thanks

Eric E. Scott
KC7KLZ
--
The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views
and do not reflect the official views of Microsoft Corporation.



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (mike del pozzo)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 160 meter top loaded designs
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:22:51 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4av6br$[e-mail]>
References: <4ai9b2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kr4tg.mindspring.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (David M. Arruzza ) wrote:

>CQ CQ CQ TO ALL RADIO AMATEURS....

>LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON TOP LOADED VERTICALS OPERATING IN THE 160
>METER BAND..ONLY PRESENT DESIGN CRITERIA IS THAT THE VERTICAL ELEMENT
>NOT EXCEED 50' IN LENGTH...WOULD RATHER HAVE PROVEN DESIGNS NOT WHAT
>YOU THINK WILL WORK...ALSO INTERESTED IN CONSTRUCTION DETAILS FOR THE
>"MINOOKA SPECIAL" VERTICAL THAT HAS BEEN USED ON MANY DXPEDITIONS
>OPERATING ON 160 LATELY.

>73 AND SEASONS GREETINGS FROM WA1UUD @ RADIO RIDGE ANSONIA CT 160-10
>METERS SSB/CW ALL BAREFOOT...48 STATES WORKED ON 160 ONLY NEED KL7 AND
>MISSISSIPPI...

>DAVE
Hello Dave :
Try the ARRL  Antenna book. It has an article on the Minnoka Special
in a chapter on " Portable antennas"
73 de KR4TG,Mike




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.voicenet.com!netnews.upenn.edu!Lehigh.EDU!Lehigh.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 2.2GHz dish feed for 10GHz....posibble???
Date: 13 Dec 1995 15:21:56 -0500
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4ancl4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ns2-1.cc.lehigh.edu

In article <4ago44$[e-mail]>, Danie Brynard <[e-mail]> w
rites:
>Probably if you have a 10GHz feed of course. The higher the
>frequency the more accurate the parabolic curve should be machined.

so are you saying i can use a 2.2GHz antenna for 10GHz?


DAvid
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|         David Roseman       |          [e-mail]       OUTTA ORDER!
|                             |          Saucon Valley Sen. HS   |      |
|      SysOp of NODE 3 BBS    |          The Flying HAm - BBS    |      |
|     Running OBV/2 Software  |          Technomage - BBS        |      |
|                             |          N3SQE/1     - HAm       V      |
|                             |  [e-mail] - Packet  |


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!netnews.nwnet.net!news.microsoft.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Eric E. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 6M Antenna
Date: 13 Dec 1995 17:50:53 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4an3pt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 157.56.124.46
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14

Hi,

I'm trying to find plans for a 6m Dipole or J-pole. I heard that to cover
the whole 6m band with you needed 2 antenna's.  Is that true?

Thanks

Eric E. Scott
KC7KLZ
[e-mail]
--
The opinions expressed in this message are my own personal views
and do not reflect the official views of Microsoft Corporation.



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 6M Antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:23:36 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4apj1o$[e-mail]>
References: <4an7q0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip13.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi Eric

I use two separate 6-M antennas one for the FM repeater end and one
for the low-end 50.125

Plans for the Copper Cactus J-Pole can be obtained from my home page
along with stacking and mirror image J-Poles
http://www.inlink.com/~raiar

TTUL - 73+ de Gary - KG0ZP





From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!usenet
From: [e-mail] (ik8enh)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 80 M. Antenna
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 21:46:37 GMT
Organization: Centro Servizi Interbusiness
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4asq8e$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.99.178.13
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi Om !!!
Thank-you to dedicate me some of your free time.
In this last period I have read many msg on the group about various
antennas for 80m but  not only. My little problem about 80 m band this
is . I  have ,fortunately , 2 support ,very high from  the ground
(about 50 meters) where I can stretch my antenna for 80 m . At moment
I have an orizzontal dipole but I want  replace it with another better
mono-band antenna .I have read  msg and articles but it make confusion
in my mind so I do not know wich antenna is better for dx ( with more
gain on orizzontal dipole ). Wich advice from your  experience ???
Waiting your reply and I Wish you a Good Christmas and happy new year.
See-you maybe in 80m , 73 Nino Molaro

e-mail          [e-mail]
AX.25           [e-mail]
or              IK8ENH  MR. Molaro Nino,Via R. Raiola 61
                        80053 C/mare di Stabia NA -ITALY




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:52 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!blackbird.afit.af.mil!tecsun1.tec.army.mil!navair2.nalda.navy.mil!avalon.chinalake.navy.mil!cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil!user
From: [e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS)
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought - Couterpoises and ground Radials ?
Message-ID: <mike_cash-1312950830190001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>
Sender: [e-mail] (NAWS news admin)
Organization: nawc
References: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1> <4accp8$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:30:19 GMT
Lines: 32

Snip;

> It almost seems like scientists are developing a "new trend". The trend is
> to avoid real world effort, and rely on unproven models to establish or
> change standards. Accuracy of NEC models with systems near real earth
> should have been verified BEFORE this data was published and accepted. It
> should at least be done as soon as possible!
>
> 73 Tom

Tom, very good point.  We in the Navy have very rigid verification and
validation requirements for our computer models.  Not as much as we would
always like because of cost, but there is a requirement to show how we
validated our model before we publish any results.

The trend to rely on computer modeling started in the 60's and continues
to grow.  So much so, that in some cases we rely totally on the model and
simulation to give us the truth with minimal or no validation of the
data.  Sometimes with devastating results.  Again, it is a cost and
schedule issue.

We in the ham world have let some of our un-validated computer models go
unchallenged. Not because of cost, but maybe because of being over zealous
to get something published.

I vote that we form an International team of verification and validation
antenna computer model "experts".  Our goal, to verify and validate ham
antenna computer models.  I also vote Tom as our leader.  Good luck Tom
and thanks for keeping us honest.

--
Mike, KN6IS


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 22:46:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4agdf0$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 40

PB> I need to add a comment.  Don't think 120 radials is a religeous
PB> number.  The FCC required that number for broadcast stations eons
PB> ago so that they could ensure advertisers were getting what they
PB> paid for: efficiency + specified power + pattern = coverage
PB> objective.

The 120 radial number came about as a result of the paper in
I.R.E. (predecessor to I.E.E.E.) in 1937 by Brown, Lewis, and
Epstein.  A humorous side comment which Dr. Bob Lewis tells, is
that 120 radials happened to be all the wire they had for the
experiment! ;-)

PB> In practical terms, shoot for 60% to 80% efficiency, which GENERALLY
PB> falls in the range of 16 to 30 radials with a reasonable distance.
PB> Beyond that number the law of dimenishing returns comes in.  At that
PB> point it is far more preferable to increase power for the same
PB> effect.

I have built as many as 6 80meter 1/4 w.l. verticals and
for three of them I measured self impedance as I progressively
added 1/4 to 1/3 w.l. radials (120 or more). On average, I
found that 50 radials was showing 50 ohms (real) self impedance.
Since the theoretical value is 36.5 this would imply a 73% eff.
At the moment I can't lay my hands on the data, but 16 radials
I suspect is going to fall below 60% efficiency.

(My lot is on a glacial moraine--meaning extremely poor
conductivity and permitivity--my only advantage is this
location is 300 feet above the immediately surrounding area).

You're still coming down a fairly steep curve at 16 radials and
only come into the knee of the curve around 80 radials, where you
might say you're nearing the law of diminishing returns.

Where there is space for it, I fail to see why anyone would
give up so much efficiency for so little effort.
BTW, it does require about 120 radials on a 1/4 w.l. vertical
to get down to around 37 ohms self impedance.

 * RM 1.3 02583 * Danger:  High Doltage


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u12566
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, ADN Computer Center
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:56:12 CST
From: James F. Foerster <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Alpha Delta EE Dipole
Lines: 4

Any experiences to share on this?
1. Does it have to be supported in the center?
2. What is efficiency on 10 and 40?

73 de N9UZG


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:55 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!cc05du.unity.ncsu.edu!jwprice
From: [e-mail] (James Warren Price)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 15 Dec 1995 03:30:20 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4aqq4c$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cc05du.unity.ncsu.edu

Albert Liao ([e-mail]) wrote:
: a lot of people claim they can hear AM transmissions through
: their dental work or bedsrpings. how does this happen? obiviously,
: the metalic structure of the dental work and the springs can act as
: antenna's but what is demodulating the signal from the carrier?
: and what is used to amplify the sound?

: if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it
: to me!

HOW ABOUT POSTING FOR EVERYONE TO ENJOY?  Thanks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Price, ARS N3QYE                             Don't blame me.
[e-mail]                      I voted for Emma Goldman.
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jwprice/.link.html



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!news2.near.net!maceo.emedia.net!jliao-b.liao.emedia.net!user
From: [e-mail] (Albert Liao)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 15 Dec 1995 01:13:26 GMT
Organization: Rhapsody Consulting
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jliao-b.liao.emedia.net

here's a question i've been trying to figure out:
a lot of people claim they can hear AM transmissions through
their dental work or bedsrpings. how does this happen? obiviously,
the metalic structure of the dental work and the springs can act as
antenna's but what is demodulating the signal from the carrier?
and what is used to amplify the sound?

anyways, just doing some wondering.

if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it
to me!

mucho gracias!

--
--
Albert Liao
<[e-mail]>


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 15 Dec 1995 23:47:51 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4atj1n$[e-mail]>
References: <4aqq4c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4aqq4c$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James
Warren Price) writes:

>
>: if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it
>: to me!
>
>HOW ABOUT POSTING FOR EVERYONE TO ENJOY?  Thanks.
>
>

My wife says I send CW after I eat beans. Mostly strings of dots.


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!aimnet.com!netserv.com!pagesat.net!niia.net!usenet
From: Rick Rikoski <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:38:48 GMT
Organization: Northern Indiana Internet Access, Inc.
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4avoqq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-3.niia.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
To: [e-mail]
X-URL: news:[e-mail]

Metal dental fillings supposedly act as diodes rectifying the rf.

If the rf levels were that high, I'd get the hell out of there!




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:34:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:53:28 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4b1leo$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4avoqq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail505.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

On this topic, I wanted to relate a funny situation that happened in
Smithfield NC a number of years ago...

There was a lady who lived just up the street from WBZB AM, a 1 kilowatt
daytime am station. Suddenly, while washing dishes one day, WBZB began to
play from her sink drain. Horrified, she called the police. The police
arrived and inspected the underside of her house for trespassers or
pranksters. They found nothing, but heard the radio station's broadcast
coming from above the floor and seemingly following the drain piping.

A plumber was called to determine if a radio had been placed in her drain
piping as a prank. The plumber found the music to be originating in the
sink trap. Upon removal of the trap, he only found granulated drain
cleaner in the  trap that had been poured in the night before by the
lady's husband. The somewhat bewildered plumber removed the drain
cleaner, and the WBZB kitchen sink programing was eliminated.

The incedent ran in the local newpaper, and has been a source of
amusement by the community for years.

73 de Dave WB4IUY
[e-mail]



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!news1.best.com!pravda.aa.msen.com!news
From: [e-mail] (AA8NF - Joe)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:06:21 GMT
Organization: DRs Mesh, P.C.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4b1imd$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4avoqq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com

>> Metal dental fillings supposedly act as diodes rectifying the rf. <<

The silver amalgam filling forms an oxide on its surface in saliva over
time. When an upper filling meets a lower with sufficient surface
contact a metal oxide metal situation arises.   In a high density RF
field the diode can demodulate a signal.   If you polish the fillings
oxide away the diode model disappears...

--
Thanks....AA8NF - Joe
from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA
12/17/95      12:04
_______________________________________
Always available at:
   [e-mail]  -or-  [e-mail]
   Please visit our Web Page at:
   http://www.drsmesh.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.1

mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk
ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/
PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br
LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4
vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR
ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs
bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg==
=+hd/
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!niia.net!usenet
From: Rick Rikoski <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna for TV channel 28
Date: 16 Dec 1995 02:14:54 GMT
Organization: Northern Indiana Internet Access, Inc.
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4ata2u$[e-mail]>
References: <49po4b$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-3.niia.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
To: [e-mail]
X-URL: news:[e-mail]

Well you could use a single channel yagi.

But a corner reflector will work as well. Also a 4 or 8 bow tie dipole
array with reflector works just as well too. And you can find that at
the K-Mart.




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:02 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.cais.net!news.cais.com!cais3.cais.com!gttm
From: USCG TELECOMMS <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:48:45 -0500
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service [e-mail] 703-448-4470
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <48veer$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4aj1n3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cais3.cais.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <4aj1n3$[e-mail]>


On 12 Dec 1995, Charles J. Mishmash wrote:

> I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter
> delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and
> weighted arrow.  Simply let the wire lay over the apex of the tree,
> then tied nylon line to the corners about 10 feet above ground and
> stretched  the bottom of the triangle between two trees.  Worked DXCC
> in one season with this arrangement.  Hardly noticed any SWR deviations
>
I had a similar situation for 160.  An inverted L with 70'V/100'H bent
over a tree crotch.  When I measured the R with a Boonton Rx meter it
showed 92 ohms (R); after I placed the bend through an insulator at
roughly the same height the R dropped by 40 ohms.  Crazy isn't it?

Ron, W4VR


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees
Date: 13 Dec 1995 19:18:35 GMT
Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4an8ub$[e-mail]>
References: <4aj1n3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx11-12.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [e-mail] (Charles J. Mishmash) writes:
;  In article <[e-mail]>,
;  [e-mail] says...
;  >
;  >   [e-mail] (Greg Taylor) wrote:
;  >
;  >>Have seen some references to just throwing wires through trees
;  >>without insulators etc.....wonder if anybody has any rough parameters
;  >>on potential loss etc of this practice.
;  >
;  I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter
;  delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and
;  weighted arrow. . .

I don't know about ash trees, but with conifers a wire, twine, or rope
with any tension will quickly cut its way into the tree. In a short
period of time (days), you'll find you can't move it or get it down.
Shooting the line over a tree is great for temporary portable operation,
though.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:04 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!rohrwerk
From: [e-mail] (John Seboldt)
Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <48veer$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4aj1n3$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:32:46 GMT
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Charles J. Mishmash) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] says...
>>
>>   [e-mail] (Greg Taylor) wrote:
>>
>>>Have seen some references to just throwing wires through trees
>>>without insulators etc.....wonder if anybody has any rough parameters
>>>on potential loss etc of this practice.
>>
>I have used 12 gauge plastic insulated wire as a full wave 80 meter
>delta loop shot over the top of a 70 foot Ash tree with a bow and
>weighted arrow.  Simply let the wire lay over the apex of the tree,

I've got a 350 foot randomly-shaped horizontal loop, and the highest
point goes over a tall Chinese elm -- bare stranded wire with no
insulator.  THe other corners are insulated... seems pretty effective....
I wouldn't worry about it.

: John Seboldt  [e-mail]  / CW:  It don't mean a thing
:      K0JD... Minneapolis, MN      /  if it ain't got that swing!
:   My R2/T2 station described in  / Di dah, di dah, di dah, di dah...
> http://www.lehigh.edu/lists/qrp-l/k0jd/index.html <



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!unixg.ubc.ca!atha!rwa
From: [e-mail] (Ross Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Antenna in Trees
Date: 16 Dec 1995 22:17:46 GMT
Organization: Athabasca University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4avgia$[e-mail]>
References: <4aj1n3$[e-mail]> <4an8ub$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aupair.cs.athabascau.ca
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV)

[e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) writes:
>I don't know about ash trees, but with conifers a wire, twine, or rope
>with any tension will quickly cut its way into the tree. In a short
>period of time (days), you'll find you can't move it or get it down.
>Shooting the line over a tree is great for temporary portable operation,
>though.

Not to one up Roy, who's definitely an authority, but about ropes in
conifers: what's worked for me is to use the rope that you sent up via
slingshot/bow/armstrong to pull a pulley and second rope up into the
tree.  Then it doesn't matter if the first line freezes up, and you
won't wear the support rope out when lowering and hoisting the wire.

regards,
Ross ve6pdq
--
Ross Alexander, ve6pdq  --  [phone]  --  [e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!news.cerf.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!news.trw.com!news2.trw.com!alpha.nafb.trw.com!sysadmin
From: Wayne Price <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: artificial ground
Date: 13 Dec 1995 17:31:49 GMT
Organization: Center for Advanced Hindsight
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4an2m5$[e-mail]>
References: <4affcc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sp369
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail](W. Dennis Zeares ) wrote:
>Anyone have experience with the MFJ artificial ground.
>How about opinions and ideas about "ground" for a second
>floor apt. dweller??? send e-mail direct: [e-mail]

A short direct ground lead is not possible from the second floor and an
artificial ground could help.  However a ground at the transmitter is not
required except:

--When the ground is an integral part of the antenna system (example:
tuner fed random length wire)

--For safety reasons, such as lightning protection.

An artificial ground will not help on safety issues.

The test for whether or not a ground is needed is "can the transmitter
distinguish between the antenna and a dummy load replacing the antenna".
If the transmitter cannot (assuming that the antenna is not some weird
contrived example) then a ground is not needed.  Many antennas, balanced
and unbalanced, exhibit this property.
Examples:

--Ground mounted vertical (This is what I use from my ungrounded second
floor shack)

--Ground plane

--center fed dipole

--Yagis/quads

If there is a ground problem("hot mike",etc.) if will be aggravated by
higher power.  So check out that ungrounded KW carefully.

--Wayne  W5GIE in Redlands, CA




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:07 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: artificial ground
Date: 13 Dec 1995 14:08:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 29
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4an8b3$[e-mail]>
References: <4an2m5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Wayne,

Boy you hit the nail on the head. An artificial ground sure isn't a safety
ground!

>The test for whether or not a ground is needed is "can the transmitter
>distinguish between the antenna and a dummy load replacing the antenna".
>If the transmitter cannot (assuming that the antenna is not some weird
>contrived example) then a ground is not needed.  Many antennas, balanced
>and unbalanced, exhibit this property.
>Examples:
>
>--Ground mounted vertical (This is what I use from my ungrounded second
>floor shack)
>
>--Ground plane
>
>--center fed dipole
>
>--Yagis/quads

I differ in my opinion on this though. Any antenna that has large
electrical mass and a potential difference between itself and any
electrical mass connect to it's terminals *may* require a choke balun.

I always play it safe and use one on almost every antenna I own, even
dipoles and verticals.

73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:10 1995
From: [e-mail] (Natale Borghetti)
Subject: RE: backpackable 2m homebrew?
Date: 15 Dec 95 10:42:15 -0800
References: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 1

I really do not understand


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: [e-mail] (Brian Buydens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: backpackable 2m homebrew?
Date: 15 Dec 1995 02:56:02 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4aqo42$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

In the 1995 ARRL Radio Amateurs handbook there are plans in chapter 20 for
a portable 3-element 2-m beam.  It was taken from an April 1993 article from
QST.  I hope this helps.

73 de VE5RDV

Brian

[e-mail] wrote:
: Hello all, I am looking for a "simple" and I stress simple
: design for a quick and dirty 2 meter yagi.  2-5 elements
: nothing really fancy just enough to get a decent signal
: out using a handheld.  My perfect example is something similar
: to the designs that radio shack put out in their "Radio"
: magazine for a 440 antenna 8 ele.  Works GREAT realy easy
: to operate and construct.


: Any information would greatly be appreciated..
: Thanks,   J   N1RWY
: ***looking forward to Mountain top Field Day!!******

--
Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best dual band HT antenna?
Date: 13 Dec 1995 16:31:31 GMT
Organization: NCEER
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4amv53$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: Kevin Kuhl
NNTP-Posting-Host: electroman.eng.buffalo.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
NNTP-Posting-User: kuhl
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.6

I am currently using the stock antenna that came with my Kenwood TH-79A dual
band (2m 70cm) HT.  Iv'e heard it mentioned that there are after market
antennas available that improve preformance.  Does anyone have any experiences
or comments dealing with this subject.

Thanks,
Kevin
KB2WLS



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:12 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!news
From: [e-mail] (Richard Barnaby)
Subject: Re: book by Sevick wanted
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr Usenet Himself)
Nntp-Posting-Host: world.std.com
Organization: Business Support Services
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113
References: <951213142307@re3mjo>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:59:21 GMT
Lines: 27

[e-mail]  (Mike O'Rourke) wrote:

Yes, Amidon has them for sale:
Phone  [phone]
2nd edition  $20.00
73-barnaby


>I'm looking for a copy of Jerry Sevicks book
>"Transmission Line Transformers"
>The book is currently out of print and unavailable
>from the ARRL.
>Does anyone have a copy that I can buy?
>
>Mike AA8W
>email or
>810-986-0223 work
>810-986-2033 home
>

*********************************************************
* Richard Barnaby       Business Support Services       *
* 3230 E. Flamingo Rd #505                              *
* Las Vegas, NV 89121                                   *
* 800-864-5591 pager               AA1IB Amateur Radio  *
*********************************************************



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!crc-news.doc.ca!netfs.dnd.ca!nouvelles.e33.dreo.dnd.ca!usenet
From: Norm Reed <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Building 220 and 433 MHz Antennas
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:49:20 -0800
Organization: DND/DREO/Airborne Radar
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.136.36.25
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

I want to build 220 and 433 MHz antennas.  Preferably yagi's.  Does
anyone know of freeware or shareware design software that would aid in
the process?

Thanks and 73

Norm
--
=========================================================================Department of National Defence
Defence Research Establishment Ottawa
Airborne Radar
Building T86
3701 Carling Ave.
Ottawa, ON, Canada
K1A 0K2

[phone] - voice
[phone] - fax
e-mail: [e-mail]
VE3AJI/VE7ALW

Theatre is life, film is art, television is furniture
=========================================================================


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.eng.convex.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (John C. Oppenheimer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Butternut Vert question
Date: 14 Dec 1995 11:23:31 -0600
Organization: Engineering, Convex Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx USA
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4apmij$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: orion.convex.com

I have an old Butternut HF 5 V2 of 1979 vintage.  It is the old model
with a tuning coil for 80 and 40.  The manual directs you to put the
80 and 40 coil clamps on a blue mark.  My blue marks gone.  Does
anyone have dimensions for the coils?

Is Butternut still around?  I have sent this question to them at their
new address several weeks ago and have yet to receive a response.

John
KN5L


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: [e-mail] (Brian Buydens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Car AM antennas to 2m (thanks)
Date: 14 Dec 1995 02:56:47 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4ao3pf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I would like to say thank you to all who have responded to my post.  I was
talking to a friend of mine about car antennas and my plans and he
suggested that I make a 4/5 lambda rather than 1/4 lambda.  Does anyone
know what kind of impedance problems I would run into by doing this?


73 de VE5RDV

--
Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Car AM antennas to 2m (thanks)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:37:46 -0600
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ao3pf$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

Sorry.  When I wrote 4/5 lambda I meant 5/8 lambda ;-)

On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Ross Alexander wrote:

> In rec.radio.amateur.antenna you write:
>
> >I would like to say thank you to all who have responded to my post.  I was
> >talking to a friend of mine about car antennas and my plans and he
> >suggested that I make a 4/5 lambda rather than 1/4 lambda.  Does anyone
> >know what kind of impedance problems I would run into by doing this?
>
> Can't say what the impedance would be offhand, but the pattern will be
> bad.  If erected as a vertical over a good groundplane, this will have
> its major lobe at around a 45o angle.  That's fine for working
> airplanes but pretty poor for repeaters.  Stick with 1/4 or 5/8
> lambda; they have much lower major lobes (26o and 15o respectively.)
>
> regards,
> Ross ve6pdq
> --
> Ross Alexander, ve6pdq  --  [phone]  --  [e-mail]
>

Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!niia.net!usenet
From: Rick Rikoski <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas
Date: 16 Dec 1995 02:11:20 GMT
Organization: Northern Indiana Internet Access, Inc.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4at9s8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-3.niia.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Macintosh; U; 68K)
To: [e-mail]
X-URL: news:[e-mail]

The easy question first: there are splitters and there are splitters and there are taps.
They all look alike. A tap is a divider and won't work at all as a combiner. Most splitters
of the coax variety have internal transformers and work as well splitting as combining.
Ther are splitters that are guaranteed to be UHF/VHF and others that poop out at 450mHz.
Get the broadband ones.

The harder question: I use multiple antennas to get lots of tv in the Chicago suburbs: 35
miles across Lake Michigan from the Sears tower. I'm also 120 miles from Milwaukee and
about 150 miles from Indy.35 miles from South Bend.

It is impossible to combine signals from different directions without using tuned
amplifiers. You can use broadband amplifiers and tuned passive combiners, easily bought at
MATV stores. Not too expensive. Better yet at hamfests.

The wild card is overload and intermod. Unless you have a very good amplifier, the more
amplified signals you try to combine, the more likely your combiner-amplifier will go into
overload. Generating signals of its own easily received on you tv, sometimes on top of
stations that you want to watch..

This is especially noticible when signal levels rise during a duct,or sporadic e.

The good news is, you are far enough from enough stations that you can probably get some
good tv dx during band openings with out being interfered with by strong local stations, if
you use minimal amplification.

In closing, I know the narrow band amplifiers mentioned in Popular Electronics 20 years
ago. I bought two of them, one low, one high vhf band. Had one of my ee students wire them
up. Never could get them to work right.

Enjoy your isolation!




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas
Date: 16 Dec 1995 11:05:23 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 38
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4auqo3$[e-mail]>
References: <4at9s8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hiu Rick,
In article <4at9s8$[e-mail]>, Rick Rikoski
<[e-mail]> writes:

>The easy question first: there are splitters and there are splitters and
>there are taps.
>They all look alike. A tap is a divider and won't work at all as a
combiner.

Some of them will! Conventional CATV line distribution taps work equally
well as signal insertion devices (at least in the 70's they did). But
that's besides a minor point.

>The harder question: I use multiple antennas to get lots of tv in the
Chicago
>suburbs: 35
>miles across Lake Michigan from the Sears tower. I'm also 120 miles from
>Milwaukee and
>about 150 miles from Indy.35 miles from South Bend.
>
>It is impossible to combine signals from different directions without
using
>tuned
>amplifiers. You can use broadband amplifiers and tuned passive combiners,
>easily bought at
>MATV stores. Not too expensive. Better yet at hamfests.

And the use of multi-stage passband filters and/or traps!!!! Most amps are
not selective enough, and neither are cheap tuned combiners. The filter
needs SEVERAL stages of high Q tuned circuits to reject stuff a few
channels away (assuming both are in the same low or high band). UHF
requires cavities or a stout down converter to VHF where the signal can be
filtered by L/C circuits.

Even with a good system AGC is required unless you are willing to loose
some days to overload!

73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:19 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!globe.indirect.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!voder!nsc!st-andrews!scottw
From: [e-mail] (Scott C. Walter)
Subject: Compressed Smith Chart
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews maintenance)
Nntp-Posting-Host: st-andrews.nsc.com
Organization: National Semiconductor, Santa Clara
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:29:46 GMT
Lines: 8

[ Article crossposted from sci.physics.electromag ]
[ Author was  ]
[ Posted on Tue, 12 Dec 1995 17:51:21 GMT ]

Anybody got a _compressed_ Smith Chart in PostScript form?

Thanks,
  Scott


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!mac78.franklin
From: [e-mail] (Nelson P. Moyer)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:43:11 -0600
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Lines: 5
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Nelson P. Moyer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac78.uhl.uiowa.edu
X-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.2.1

HyGain recommends Penetrox for their antennas.






From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gate.net!news-adm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: 14 Dec 1995 15:52:46 GMT
Organization: CyberGate, Inc.
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4aph8e$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ftmfl2-29.gate.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [e-mail] (Nelson P. Moyer) writes:
>  HyGain recommends Penetrox for their antennas.
>
Ideal, manufactures a product called Noalox which is formulated specifically for aluminum and is conductive, It is an anti-oxidant
joint compound.  No Al(uminum) Ox(idation)

Electricians use it to mate aluminum wire to a copper breaker box connection. I works well on my Ringo.

Mike "777" KF4FDJ


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!usenet
From: "Roy D." <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: 14 Dec 1995 17:09:55 GMT
Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4aplp3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4aph8e$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsppp12.cac.psu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] wrote:
>>   [e-mail] (Nelson P. Moyer) writes:
>>  HyGain recommends Penetrox for their antennas.
>>
>Ideal, manufactures a product called Noalox which is formulated specifically for aluminum and is conductive, It is an anti-oxidant
>joint compound.  No Al(uminum) Ox(idation)
>
There is another brand called "CuAl Aid".  Cu(copper) Al(aluminum) - for
making aluminum or copper-to-aluminum connections.  All these brands
(Penetrox, Noalox, CuAl Aid, etc.) are available at any electrical
supply and work very well.  In addition, I sprayed my beams with clear
urethane after assembly and, after approx. 5 years, they still look like
new. Good quality, electrical-grade urethane is also available at a
electrical supply. The cheap stuff you can get at Wal-Mart.

           73...........KD3LZ
--






From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!upei.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (David  C. Seeler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Conductive Grease for Aluminium
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 09:31:09 GMT
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <30d3e1f5.767370@137.149.3.1>
References: <4acl2r$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

 (Joe Pfeuffer) wrote:

>Any recommendations or suggestions for a source would be appreciated.
>
>73
>

In a recent issue of the The Canadian Radio Amateur it was recommended
that Dow Corning 55 Silicone Grease be used in connectors to prevent
water from getting into the connections. Just a small amount.

From what I understand - this is a NON-conductive grease . GE has a
similar product called Sel Glyde I believe. They are both dielectrics.

Now my question is: If only a small amount is put in the connector and
it only fills gaps small and large - I assume that there will be
contact between the two connectors making this a useful product for
waterproofing the connection internally?


TRUE?   Any Comments?



Regards, Dave Seeler - Vy2DCS


Regards,
David Seeler, VY2DCS


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet
From: charles bolland <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: DEMO DATABASE FOR RADIO BROADCAST STATION IDENT
Date: 15 Dec 1995 15:24:57 GMT
Organization: Florida Internet
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4as409$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb20.flinet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17772 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22658

Hello,

I have a Database Demo program which helps identify Radio Broadcast Stations.  If you
would like a copy, send your Email address and I will send the program via Email.

The program runs from DOS and is a stand alone program which needs no other platform to run.

It's easy and installs quickly..

Hope to hear from you.

Chuck Bolland




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet
From: charles bolland <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: DEMO PROGRAM TO IDENT RADIO BROADCAST STATIONS
Date: 15 Dec 1995 15:14:42 GMT
Organization: Florida Internet
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4as3d2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb20.flinet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

Friends,

If you would like a DEMO program of Radio Broadcasts Stations FREE! send your Email address
to me and I will send the program back via EMAIL.

The program is usuable and easy.  Loads quickly and is a stand alone program which runs
from DOS.  Hope to hear from you....

Chuck Bolland




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nw003.infi.net!imci3!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Sparkzz)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: 15 Dec 1995 02:06:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4ar6pn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Sparkzz)

Sure it will!!

I have an attic abt 50 ft long.
I put in a 40 meter dipole at the inside peak, and just let the remainder
of the wire dangle down to the floor. (My attic is abt 9 feet high at the
ridge.)

I also took 130 feet of wire, center fed, and zigzagged it through the
rafters for
80 meters -- it works acceptably, but is heck to tune.

Whereas both antennas work pretty well, they are certainly not as good as
outside wire.

You might want to make sure all your telephoning is over for the day
before you
fire up the rig  B-)

73's Ken -- KC5HMJ

..........................
Ken Luther
Systems Analyst
New Orleans, La.
..........................


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:27 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Dipole vs. Vertical
Date: 17 Dec 95 14:58:04 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

I am currently using a G5RV dipole and thinking about adding other dipoles or a
multi-band vertical to my collection. I am looking for other hams advise on
which should I do.

I enjoy using my G5RV for multi-band use with a tuner but most of the signal is
being taken by the tuner to get the swr within acceptable range. I have thought
about setting up individual dipole's for the most used bands but lack the space
so my best option is a multi-band vertical.

Which is the best the dipole or vertical? I understand that verticals are noisy
and because of the low radiation angle do not do well on local states areas.

If I was to chose a vertical, which one would be the one to get? A GAP,
Butternut, Cushcraft, Telex-Hygain or etc.?

I know that beams would be the way to go but money presently stops me from
putting up a tower with beams. At least with a vertical I would be putting most
of the power outside on the antenna and not inside on the tuner which I am
currently doing with the G5RV.


Thanks for any input.

73's

Phil
AD4WP




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty and displacement current
Date: 16 Dec 1995 12:47:03 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4auf47$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Ian G3SEK says:

>It's confusing to talk about "displacement current" flowing between the
>driven element and the radials. There is electromagnetic induction between
>them, but no flow of current in any meaningful sense: no electrons
>flow through the volume between the driven element and the radials.
>You can't expect a mixture of genuine currents
>(electron flow in/on a conductor) and so-called "displacement
>currents" to obey Kirchhoff's law.

You are incorrect about displacement current.  The current that flows
through a capacitor is a displacement current. It does not involve a
transfer of electrons, but it is a current. Maxwell's equation based on
Ampere's law recognizes the importance of the displacement current.
Displacement currents are found in all manner of LCR networks,
where Kirchoff is alive and well.

Also, Doty's Table 1 and Table 2, with a large number of radials (48)
does account for *all* of the current, using his magnetometer which,
as the name suggests, apparently measures the H-field.

Your comment about the vector addition of the currents bothers me
and I am not sure how to square that with Doty's Tables 1 and 2.
His technique may have somehow taken that into account.

Regarding the "missing" current.  A circuit analysis of the *complete*
system would probably account for all of it. The complete circuit
involves more than just the radials and the earth immediately under
them. As you suggest, I am sure that leakage to earth is the crucial
factor and those currents would not be measured. These leakages
would also involve losses of power that degrade the efficiency.

In a complete analysis, Kirchoff would be satisfied only right at the
location of the transmitter (we don't know where that was).


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty and displacement current
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 21:54:25 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 113
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4auf47$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 23:05:30 GMT]
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 23:07:06 GMT]

Bill W0IYH writes:
:
: Ian G3SEK says:
:
: >It's confusing to talk about "displacement current" flowing between the
: >driven element and the radials. There is electromagnetic induction
between
: >them, but no flow of current in any meaningful sense: no electrons
: >flow through the volume between the driven element and the radials.
: >You can't expect a mixture of genuine currents
: >(electron flow in/on a conductor) and so-called "displacement
: >currents" to obey Kirchhoff's law.
:
: You are incorrect about displacement current.  The current that flows
: through a capacitor is a displacement current. It does not involve a
: transfer of electrons, but it is a current. Maxwell's equation based on
: Ampere's law recognizes the importance of the displacement current.
: Displacement currents are found in all manner of LCR networks,
: where Kirchoff is alive and well.

Sorry, Bill, I can't agree completely with that.

(Please excuse the long and detailed explanation that follows - I didn't
 have time to write it any shorter  :-)

Displacement currents do indeed flow through capacitors - but they
flow quite literally *inside*, within the dielectric. What flows in the
two connecting leads is a completely different *kind* of current.

When electrons flow into one lead of a capacitor, the same number of
electrons flow out from the other. We know that this is achieved by field
effects within the dielectric, and that no electrons are actually
transported though an ideal dielectric. However, if we always insisted on
that level of detail, we'd have to drag electric field theory into the
analysis of every circuit involving a capacitor. To avoid this, it's
convenient to visualize a "special type of current" that flows through the
dielectric to complete the circuit.

We call it "displacement current", but it's vital to remember that we're
using the word "current" in two totally different senses. Ordinary current
involves transport of real electrons; "displacement current" does not -
it's really a field effect. That's why it is not valid to sum displacement
currents and conventional currents at any network node - they are two
completely different phenomena.

Kirchhoff's law applies *only* to the kind of current that is a physical
flow of electrons in a conductor. It's exactly like the flow of water in a
pipe. If K's law did not apply to a network of conductors, it would imply
that electrons are being either added or lost at some network nodes.
"Displacement current" cannot be providing or removing electrons because
that's not how it works - in a vacuum dielectric, it doesn't even *use*
electrons!

If various parts of the network are electromagnetically coupled, as in an
antenna, then the coupling will modify the overall current distribution in
the conductors. That's where Maxwell's equation enters the picture. But the
modified current distribution still has to be consistent with K's law,
which continues to be valid at any point along any conductor, anywhere,
anytime.

Gasp... that's my best shot for this evening at explaining my point of
view. As ever, it's open to correction.

Turning back to the main subject, what started us on this track was the
apparent suggestion that displacement currents into the earth could be a
reason for the sum of the currents in the radials not equalling the current
in the vertical. As explained above, I don't think there ever can be any
genuinely "missing" current at the feedpoint. Kirchhoff's law is the one
thing we can *totally* rely on - so we then have to go looking for some
other reason for the discrepancy.

: Also, Doty's Table 1 and Table 2, with a large number of radials (48)
: does account for *all* of the current, using his magnetometer which,
: as the name suggests, apparently measures the H-field.
:
: Your comment about the vector addition of the currents bothers me
: and I am not sure how to square that with Doty's Tables 1 and 2.
: His technique may have somehow taken that into account.

Nowhere does the QST article mention that *vector* current measurements
were made. [The instrument used is referenced to Ham Radio, June 1979, if
anyone would like to nail that point down for certain.]

The convergence on 100% current collection with increasing number of
radials (Tables 1 and 2) can be at least partly explained by the fact that
the antenna was deliberately placed off-centre so that all the radials
would be of different lengths. For all practical purposes the lengths were
random and the phases of the currents will vary from one radial to the
next. Thus, the more radials there are in the system, the better the sum of
the scalar measurements will tend to average towards the correct value.

On an extra day's reflection, Bill, I'm not sure that variations between
the phases of  currents in different radials would be large enough to
invalidate the general trend of Doty's results based on scalar measurements
- it's a potential source of errors, but it would need some very large
phase variations to make a serious difference.

So, where else to look?

What really worries me about Table 2 is the result for "0 radials" (two 8ft
ground rods) which quotes the measured return current as 86% of the antenna
current. By K's law, how can this be anything other than exactly 100% ?
Like Tom, I'd feel much more comfortable if there was some mention -
somewhere, anywhere - of feedline chokes.




73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty article
Date: 14 Dec 1995 18:17:57 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 22
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4appol$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

W8JI, Tom says,

>Hi Bill,
>I think this was a CQ article, not QST.

The article is in February 1983 QST.  I have that issue here in
front of me.  It mentions the magnetometer that he used.

The current that flows into the vertical radiator and returns to
the source can only flow through the intervening "space" between
the radiator and the ground return or radials.  These currents
are called "displacement" currents, as compared to "wire" currents.
The radiation resistance is part of this closed path.  If this
were not true the radial current would be zero. If the radial system
is inadequate some of these return currents are via a lossy earth path.

It is these electrostatic and induction fields, the so-called "near fields"
that "launch" the wave into space. The efficiency of this launching
process determines the strength of the "far field", according to a
book "VLF Radio Engineering" that I have been briefly looking at.

Does any of this agree with your understanding?


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article
Date: 14 Dec 1995 17:03:05 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 68
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aq6up$[e-mail]>
References: <4appol$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Bill,

This is an interesting thing to discuss. I didn't have that issue of QST,
I only read something about it in a CQ article.

In article <4appol$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>The current that flows into the vertical radiator and returns to
>the source can only flow through the intervening "space" between
>the radiator and the ground return or radials.  These currents
>are called "displacement" currents, as compared to "wire" currents.
>The radiation resistance is part of this closed path.  If this
>were not true the radial current would be zero. If the radial system
>is inadequate some of these return currents are via a lossy earth path.
>
>It is these electrostatic and induction fields, the so-called "near
fields"
>that "launch" the wave into space. The efficiency of this launching
>process determines the strength of the "far field", according to a
>book "VLF Radio Engineering" that I have been briefly looking at.
>
>Does any of this agree with your understanding?
>

Yes, but no. Jargon like that is a bit confusing. The reason I avoid that
description is it tends to make us think of the antenna as a circuit that
requires an earth connection for completion.

I suspect jargon like that confused Doty. He took it literally and assumed
insulating radials from earth would "break" the circuit. He assumed this
in spite of the antenna and radials remaining in the same position with
respect to earth.

The theory presented is the addition of a few thousandth's of an inch of
insulation to the radials "breaks the circuit" and prevents the lossy
earth from being part of the "circuit". It just doesn't work that way.
That is similar to claiming a wire in a transmitter can be shielded by
adding insulation. Electric field effects aren't "blocked" by insulation,
neither are magnetic field effects.

The lossy earth still has currents induced in it by the magnetic and
electric fields. It will have loss even if these currents don't "flow"
anywhere. Case in point, the dipole. A properly fed dipole has absolutely
no "return path" or connection to earth, yet the earth below it
contributes substantially to system loss if the antenna is anywhere near
earth. Adding insulation over the earth won't help this, only a "shield"
of highly conductive material between the earth and the dipole will
eliminate the loss.

Finally consider two conductors that parallel each other for a long
distance. One is excited with RF. If the parallel distance is a long
fraction of a wavelength and the separation is small, the coupling is very
tight. Adding insulation, or electrically bonding the conductors together
will barely change things. With that in mind, what possible difference can
a few thousanths of an inch of insulation make in a 100 foot long radial?

What difference can adding a few inches or even a few feet of air spacing
make in the coupling in this example?

That's why I look at this as two issues. One is providing some mass for
the feedline to "push against", the other is the "shielding" effect the
radials have between the lossy earth and the radiator, even if it's a
dipole!

What do you think?

Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty article
Date: 15 Dec 1995 00:24:21 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4aqf7l$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Hi Tom, I will add a few more words, but I hope you and the other
readers will keep my non-expert status in mind.

As I see it, every "linear" antenna requires a reference plane
of some kind to "launch" a wave into space.  The Marconi vertical
uses a ground plane of some kind.  In the half wave dipole each
side of the dipole acts as a counterpoise, or reference, for
the other side.  In other words the dipole is a self-contained
system, whereas the Marconi type requires a ground plane.  That
may be where the idea of the "underground image" got started.

In the dipole the near field that launches the wave exists
between the two halves.  In the Marconi the earth or radials
or ground screen serves this purpose.

Many of the things that Doty did are beyond my knowledge, and I
am trying to stay focused on the one issue regarding a possible
explanation of the difference between radiator current and radial
current.  My feeling is that the radial current should be less
than the radiator current.  A complete accounting of the
entire large-scale system would probably account for the
"missing" current.  I think the theory is pretty clear on
this issue.

>It is these electrostatic and induction fields, the so-called "near
>fields" that launch a wave into space.



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article
Date: 14 Dec 1995 21:10:41 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 59
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aqlf1$[e-mail]>
References: <4aqf7l$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hello Again Bill,
In article <4aqf7l$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>As I see it, every "linear" antenna requires a reference plane
>of some kind to "launch" a wave into space.  The Marconi vertical
>uses a ground plane of some kind.  In the half wave dipole each
>side of the dipole acts as a counterpoise, or reference, for
>the other side.  In other words the dipole is a self-contained
>system, whereas the Marconi type requires a ground plane.  That
>may be where the idea of the "underground image" got started.

How does a small loop in space fit this description? It's a small closed
conductor with nearly linear current distribution.

Here are the problems. To generate a magnetic field, current must flow. To
generate an electric field, a potential difference must occur between two
separated points. To generate an electromagnetic wave, this must happen
rapidly.

This all takes two terminals. The terminals must have a finite impedance
in relationship to each other, either from having a direct connection or
enough electrical "mass" to allow charging and discharging by the
generator. The rapidly changing potential difference at the terminals will
make current flow, and electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic fields will
develop.

>In the dipole the near field that launches the wave exists
>between the two halves.  In the Marconi the earth or radials
>or ground screen serves this purpose.

This may be a difference of descriptions. It's like the fable about blind
men describing an elephant, hi. I don't "see it" as a wave that is
launched, I view it as an effect that occurs when we move electrons.

>Many of the things that Doty did are beyond my knowledge, and I
>am trying to stay focused on the one issue regarding a possible
>explanation of the difference between radiator current and radial
>current.

OK. Let's drop the rest.

>My feeling is that the radial current should be less
>than the radiator current.

Can the current at the terminals of a generator be different at each
terminal?
With no additional "ground", the sum of all currents flowing from the
radials to the common point at the feedline must equal the total current
flowing at the base of the vertical. If that isn't true, the transmission
line must have parallel (common mode) current on it. If the transmission
line has common mode current flow, it will radiate.
That was an obvious flaw in the measurements.

Even without that flaw, the current measurements proved nothing. The
argument was efficiency improved, and that can only be proven by knowing
the applied power and the total power in the radiated field. Those
parameters were never measured.
73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty article and Ian's response
Date: 17 Dec 1995 15:18:14 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 41
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4b1cbm$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Good Morning Ian,

The current through a capacitor is due to the rate of change of voltage
across the capacitor.  This current is a perfectly valid current in
any kind of LCR network, including an antenna. Your countryman, Mr Maxwell,
used this displacement current, in free space, along with another of
his equations, based on Faraday, to derive the wave equation that
predicted electromagnetic radiation and also the speed of light.
The displacement current is as real as anything can be.

The displacement current within the capacitor and the coventional
current that flows external to the capacitor are indistinguishable
from each other. They are the same current. This current, whether
in a wire or in empty space, produces an H field (magnetizing force).

A common usage of this capacitance in an antenna is the top loading
disk or sphere.  Its self-capacitance tunes the antenna to a lower
frequency. The displacement currents that exist between the disk and
the space around it are reactive (capacitive) in nature.

After thinking about Doty's measurements I am sure he did the following:
Tie all the radials together at the base of the radiator and measure
the *total* radial current. Compare that with the radiator curent.  I
believe that makes sense.

In the case of zero radials the ground current that he measured is
only that part of the ground current that returned to the ground rods.
The ground is so dispersive in nature that it is reasonable to
assume that some of the current would return to the generator
by devious routes.  I think it is just that simple. These devious
routes would also be lossy. Kirchoff insists that all of the return
current be accounted for, but I don't think I want to get deeply
involved in that exercise because it involves things that I am not
competent to discuss.

The ARRL Antenna Book 17th Edition has some interesting discussions
in which Doty's work and Sevick's work seem to lead to about the
same general conclusions.  The elevated counterpoise seems to be
favored, and the Ground Plane Antenna, in particular, likes to be
well removed from ground so that it becomes a self-contained system.



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: 14 Dec 1995 12:07:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 47
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aplkd$[e-mail]>
References: <4amuqo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Bill,

I think this was a CQ article, not QST.

In article <4amuqo$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>I have two questions about the Doty article:
>
>1) Is it really true that the radial return current *must*
>   equal the current in the vertical rod? Isn't some of the
>   return current diverted from the radials to the earth
>   underneath by capacitive coupling, as Doty claims?  Isn't
>   there a potential difference between radials and the
>   earth that would cause displacement currents to flow
>   to ground and not through the measuring instrument?

Yes, the current must be equal. It's a two terminal series circuit.
Visualize a floating generator moved to the base terminals of the
vertical. The generator must have the same current flow at each terminal.
The radials, at the generator connection, must divide the current from
that terminal. We simply can't "loose" current. If current is "missing",
it must be flowing in another connection to that terminal. The feeder was
the only other connection to the antenna terminals. Either it parallel
currents, or the current values in radial current measurements were
incorrect. If the feeder had parallel current, it was part of the
radiating system and all radial current measurements were invalid.

>2) Doesn't some of the radiator current return to ground well
>   beyond the radial system?

The popular concept current flows out from the radiator and "returns
through the earth" to the radials by capacitive or direct coupling
confuses, misleads, and misinforms  people. Current doesn't "flow" through
space from an antenna like water spraying from a hose. It isn't
"collected" in a bucket or catch basin and "piped" back to the antenna
through the ground.

The article's claim is efficiency improves or changes. Why didn't he
measure antenna efficiency?

Direct measurement, when possible, is *always* the best approach. I fail
to understand why anyone would make a thousand current measurements with a
home made clamp on meter, when the entire issue could have been resolved
with a field strength meter and ten or twenty measurement points.

73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!sparky!nlcnews.nlc.state.ne.us!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary McDuffie, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 08:48:27 GMT
Organization: AG0N's Radio Ranch
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4atmec$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.206.239.243
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

On 16 Dec 1995 00:45:48 -0500, [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

I feel out of place joining into this thread that is obviously way over my
head, but I'm reading and trying to learn.

> As an additional comment: When Chrisman tested an elevated ground system,
> field strength improved without a choke in the feedline, and decreased
> when a choke was installed. The choke's only function is to prevent the
> feeder and transmitter system from being part of the vertcal's ground. The
> supposition is four elevated radials form an ideal ground, equal to 120
> radials. If the supposition is true, why is FS increased over one dB when
> the choke is removed and earth connections become part of the system? That
> either indicates efficiency goes over 100% without a choke, or elevated
> radials are not 100% efficient because the poor ground to the transmitter
> helps the system!!

Tom, Roy, whoever - Assuming there were four 1/4wl radials, to me, it seems
the transmission line shield becomes another radial, or at least part of
the ground system unless it is choked.  But, where would the choke be?
With such a minimal radial system, assuming the coax left the antenna at
the same point that the radials did, would adding a choke at the 1/4wl
(from the base) point make the system perform like a 5 radial system?  Or,
would it matter?  If the choke is put at the feedpoint, isn't there
coupling from the radials to the coax as it exits?  Adding to the question,
would the answers change from elevated to on-the-ground radial system?

Further.. I liked the G3's explanation (I could understand part of that!).
Is he right?  Are you close enough to the knee if you maintain that .02wl
maximum spacing at the ends of the radials?  If so, determining what your
maximum diameter circle is, and putting in whatever number it takes to
achieve the .02wl spacing at the tips would be the "best" you could do?

Lastly.. What effect would it have to drive ground rods at the ends of your
radials?  Okay, so sixty ground rods would be a pain.  But, what about
several of them equally spaced around the perimeter and tied to it?

An inquiring mind wants to know (;^)

> If you look again at the VLF antennas you mentioned, you will
> see that the efficiency of those arrays improves with star type grounding
> systems that connect directly to the earth.

Is that like my question about grounding the perimeter?  If so, what is the
effect of radial length?  Would grounding 1/8wl radial tips have more
effect than grounding 1/4wl radials?  Or, does it always boil down to an
absolute formula...  THE MORE YOU HAVE = BETTER  ?
  __              _   __  __
 / _ _ _    __   /_| / _ /  )/| )
(__)(// (/      (  |(__)(__// |/
        /
[e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: 17 Dec 1995 10:35:39 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 82
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b1dcb$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Gary,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Gary McDuffie, Sr.) writes:
>Tom, Roy, whoever - Assuming there were four 1/4wl radials, to me, it
seems
>the transmission line shield becomes another radial, or at least part of
>the ground system unless it is choked.  But, where would the choke be?

Good picture! The best place for the choke is at the feedpoint, but to be
safe I always use at least two chokes when making measurements. I choke
the feedline at the feedpoint, and again when the feedline leaves the
vicinity of the radial system.
If the simple addition of a choke balun changes anything in the vertical's
behavior (assume a good choke and flat line SWR), you can be almost
perfectly sure the ground system is not perfect and could stand
improvement.

>With such a minimal radial system, assuming the coax left the antenna at
>the same point that the radials did, would adding a choke at the 1/4wl
>(from the base) point make the system perform like a 5 radial system?

Yes, definitely. Even without the choke it would look like a 5 radial
system. The feedline "radial" would tie to your station and eventually the
power lines, etc!

>would it matter?  If the choke is put at the feedpoint, isn't there
>coupling from the radials to the coax as it exits?

Yes, and from antenna "field" effects.

>Adding to the question,
>would the answers change from elevated to on-the-ground radial system?

No. When the feedline exits at a point where, if you were standing there
and could see electrons moving, you would see exactly equal numbers moving
perfectly in step the exact same distance in exactly opposite directions
at the same instant of time field coupled effects are zero. That is
another way of saying in the null, hi! Under that condition adding a choke
balun at the feedpoint would make the feedline "invisible".
As the ground system is improved, the effects of the feedline (and
station) on the antenna system diminish as the ground system is improved.
Especially if the feedline exits the area of the antenna *below* the
ground system.

>Further.. I liked the G3's explanation (I could understand part of
that!).
>Is he right?  Are you close enough to the knee if you maintain that .02wl
>maximum spacing at the ends of the radials?

Ian has a wonderful way of explaining it! But how perfect is perfect?

If the earth "sees" no moving electrons, there can be no induced effects.
Visualize what the earth would see if a four radial system were elevated
many times the radial and antenna length straight up. It couldn't see the
radiator current (the electrons would be moving away and closer from end
view, so they wouldn't appear to be moving much). The earth couldn't see
the radial current (it would all be moving opposite directions, equal,
etc).

The distance where this all looks like this is coming from a single point
in space is the far field distance, and four radials would behave
perfectly at that height. Move the antenna closer to earth, and losses
pick right up. Any given point on the earth below the antenna is much
closer to one radial that the others. We would need more radials to reduce
the current in each one! Eventually the radials would be dense enought to
"shield" the earth from the antenna.

But even placing the antenna in space does not eliminate the need for
feedline decoupling when only a few radials are used. Unwanted current
will flow on the feeder from the direct connection to the feedpoint
voltage.

>....maximum diameter circle is, and putting in whatever number it takes
to
>achieve the .02wl spacing at the tips would be the "best" you could do?

I agree if we understand "best" is subject to the trade-off of cost and
return, hi. It is a lot more than a slob would consider perfect, and less
than a fellow who places socks neatly in order in the clothes hamper would
be happy with. ;-)

>Lastly.. What effect would it have to driv


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nw003.infi.net!imci3!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Richard Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Fix your MFJ Mod. 986 Tuner before it breaks
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 03:20:17 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsa-oc-21.earthlink.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

To all hams:

If you have a MFJ tuner Mod. 986,  the shaft in the roller inductor
may break at any time.  The problem is the hole in the front panel is
slightly higher than it should be so the shaft is bent all the time.
To correct this 4 washers need to be put under the roller inductor to
raise it to match the front panel hole.  I drilled holes in four
pennies and used them.  They seemed to be just the right size.  Doing
this will save you the $55+ fee that MFJ charges for a new roller
inductor when the shaft breaks.

Yes, MFJ is aware of this design flaw.

Post any questions.

Richard, KB6CEA



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!Germany.EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Robert  H°yvald <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,uk.radio.amateur
Subject: For Sale TM-742a w/UT-50
Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:17:29 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4ashk9$ght$[e-mail]>
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17745 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22624 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12178 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95653 uk.radio.amateur:9665

To all:

I have a Kenwood TM-742a for sale right out of the box with all
docs and warranties. It is only three months old . Included is the
DFK-7 kit, TSU-7 decoder, and the UT50s module for the extra 50mhz
band, and the Comet SSB-15 tribander antenna as a complete package
for $900.00 plus shipping. There is absolutely nothing wrong with
this unit and the accessories, it has very little TX time less
than an hour, and receive of not more than three hours.

Please E-mail all inquiries to 72242,477
KB2UWJ


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.third-wave.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary Valentine)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: For Sale: Hy-Gain TH6-DXX
Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:45:31 GMT
Organization: Third Wave Development
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4asj8r$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp7.third-wave.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6

My name is Gary Valentine.  My call sign is N3EVP.  I have a
 Hy-Gain  TH6-DXX "Super Thunderbird" for sale.  It is undamaged but
 was in use for 5 years on a 30 foot tower located in Pennsylvania.
 It worked well for me but I am
selling it now because my father, W3VWA, became a silent key 6 years
 ago and I inherited all his equipment which is better than mine.  I am
asking $475.

The specifications of the TH6-DXX are as follows:

        1) Input impedance - 52 ohms
        2) Forward gain - 10 meters=9.5, 15 meters=8.5 and
           20 meters=8.0 dB
        3) Front to Back ratio - 25 dB
        4) Max. power input - 1000 watts
        5) Boom length - 24 feet
        6) Longest element - 31 feet

My QTH is in Pennsylvania..  Reply by E-mail ([e-mail]) or land line (814-893-5696).


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!freenet2.freenet.ufl.edu!afn17891
From: "Thomas W. Castle" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Grounding problem with G5RV?
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 04:03:35 -0500
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4an0g7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet2.afn.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <4an0g7$[e-mail]>

In regards to your problem with the G5RV antenna:

Most of the G5RV's I've seen or read about, usually call for about
80' or more of coax connected to the ladder wire. You didn't say
much about the coax or length an type of ladder wire your using....?

The usuall configurations I've seen are:
the flat top or wire portion is usually 51' x 2 or 102foot overall.
the ladder wire is usually 300ohm at about 29'6" in length.
this coupled with 75-80 or more feet of RG-8x <50-52ohm> or 75ohm coax.

If your G5RV has 450ohm ladder wire connecting to the flat top an coax;
it is usually about 17' or 32'6" in length depending on who's specs' you
go by.

To me the best bet is to run the ladder wire straight to the antenna
tuner an skip the coax altogether. That is sometimes easier said than
done. A good ground is essential for a tuner; since your dealing with
ground freez; you could add 2 or 3 more short ones to what you already
have. The military mobile radio units us about 7-8 ground rods of varing
length, spaced out over a small area; to get a good cumlative ground.

Hope this helps De Tom  KD4QHH



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Grounding problem with G5RV?
Date: 15 Dec 1995 15:58:56 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4as600$[e-mail]>
References: <4an0g7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <4an0g7$[e-mail]>,
Chris Dorn <[e-mail]> wrote:

>comments on this, and has anyone else had problems like this with a G5RV
>and solid state vs. tube rigs?

Hi Chris, since the G5RV is a balanced dipole-type antenna, it
should not require a ground. I can't tell a bit of difference in
the characteristics of my non-resonant dipole whether the system
is grounded or not.

IMO, the major problem that most people have is they don't know
what impedances they are dealing with. A simple pickup loop and
a voltmeter will tell you what you need to know. Then a series
or parallel cap, coil, or stub will generally swing the impedance
to a value that allows high efficiency out of the antenna tuner.

Just outside my hamshack window, I have a knife-switch in the
ladder-line that switches series caps in for 40m and out for
the other bands. Inside the shack, I have a knife-switch that
switches ten feet of ladder-line in for 10m and 20m and out
for 17m. This gives very close to 1:1 SWR on my favorite bands.
I get optimum performance out of my antenna because I took a
half day to make some simple measurements. Why dink around for
weeks with hit-or-miss cut-and-try trial-and-error techniques?

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ddi2.digital.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Rick Spindler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Date: 15 Dec 1995 00:44:17 GMT
Organization: florida online
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4aqgd1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: @pm2_8.digital.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio signal?
Your assistance is much appreciated.


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:49 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!ieunet!news.tcd.ie!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (TCD News System )
Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin
X-Newsreader: <WinQVT/Net v3.9>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:57:31 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <4aqgd1$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rick Spindler)
writes:

>Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio signal?
>Your assistance is much appreciated.

loss (in dB) = 32.44+20*log10(F(MHz))+20*log10(D(km))

Dr. Gerry Butler,  CEng. MIEE. [[e-mail]]
TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland
Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
[ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ]


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: curtis epps <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.swap
Subject: I.D. Timers
Date: 14 Dec 1995 22:04:43 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4aq71r$2jn$[e-mail]>
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17698 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22555 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12136 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95594 rec.radio.swap:53056

I.D. Timers:  Battery powered quartz countdown timer with alarm.
Auto re-set/auto re-start for no
touch opperation and no loss in time between ten minute ID cycles
with the auto re-start.  L.C.
display shows minutes remaining in countdown.  High acuracy less
than +4 seconds per week
of continuous duty.  Aprox 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/2 inches; watch
battery included.
Timer has spring loaded magnetic clip for dash board or visor
mounting for mobil use, swing
down metal bail converts clip to easel stand for base opperation.
 Timers sold nationally for
$35.00.  Special price $20.00 shiped UPS ground.  Checks OK.
Curtis Epps (KB4WUB) 1553
Mackerel Ave.-Sarasota, FL 34237

--
C.EPPS


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:51 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.misc,uk.radio.amateur
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.roundabout.org!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!egroen
From: [e-mail] (Enno Groen)
Subject: Re: IC706
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NLnet
References: <47n930$a3k$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:32:19 GMT
Lines: 6
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17671 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22496 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95534 uk.radio.amateur:9621


Why don't you look for a 775 ft1000 or new Kenwood if you don't like small??
I don't want such an elephant on my desk for sure...
73
Enno



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ingrese Via Internet a las Repetidoras de California
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 09:04:49 PST
Organization: Network Intensive
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: miglia1.gmtech.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43381 soc.culture.uruguay:4679 soc.culture.spain:83662 soc.culture.peru:11027 soc.culture.mexican.american:7900 soc.culture.latin-america:39857 soc.culture.ecuador:4269 soc.culture.cuba:31797 soc.culture.colombia:12539 soc.culture.chile:32380 soc.culture.bolivia:10745 soc.culture.argentina:28860 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32223 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95698 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12209 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22661 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13177 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17776



RADIOAFICIONADOS

DX's VIA INTERNET CON LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA

Es fantastico escuchar como radioaficionados de todas partes del mundo
utilizan los repetidores de VHF y UHF del sur de California (En Espanol)
ingresando por medio de INTERNET, ademas en muchas ocaciones nuestras maquinas
de 2 Metros, 220 Mhz, 440Mhz y 1.2 Ghz estuvieron interconectadas con maquinas
similares, por horas, en otras partes del mundo permitiendo realizar Dx's con
un pequeno equipo de mano.

Para realizar un INTERNET/REPEATER LINK con los repetidoras de habla hispana
de sur de California debes contar con los siguientes elementos:

- Cuenta en Internet del tipo PPP.
- Computador 486 DX2 66mhz 8 MB con tarjeta de sonido.
- Modem de 14,400 Bauds.
- Programa Iphone (Internet Phone: http://www.vocaltec.com).

Si ya estas listo o te hace falta ayuda envia un E-Mail a:

[e-mail]

Y adjunta los siguientes datos:

Letras/Call:
Nombre y Apellido:
Pais y Ciudad:
E-Mail:

73's de AC6RB George Migliarini




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:54:44 GMT
Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4almak$[e-mail]>
References: <4ahmhm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-45.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>. . .
>  In a length of time shorter that what it took to erect the antenna, I was
>  able to find out everything about it with nothing more than a very simple
>  pickup loop and a voltmeter. That's a real advantage that ladder-line has
>  over coax.

>  The SWRs were about 60% lower than predicted by ELNEC. The velocity factor
>  of the 300 ohm ladder-line was about 0.78 rather than the advertised 0.88

>  73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting,
because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This means
that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in the field.
I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be about as bad as
flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad indeed!

Roy Lewallen, W7EL



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.accessus.net!news.uoregon.edu!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!freenet.columbus.oh.us!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W VanHorne)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 15 Dec 1995 06:14:53 -0500
Organization: The Greater Columbus FreeNet
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4arlbd$[e-mail]>
References: <4ahmhm$[e-mail]> <4almak$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us
ReplyTo: [e-mail]
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Roy Lewallen ([e-mail]) wrote:
:
: >  The SWRs were about 60% lower than predicted by ELNEC. The velocity factor
: >  of the 300 ohm ladder-line was about 0.78 rather than the advertised 0.88
:
: >  73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)

: Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting,
: because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This means
: that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in the field.
: I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be about as bad as
: flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad indeed!

: Roy Lewallen, W7EL

This is an interesting thread.  Thanks to both KG7BK and W7EL.

Not only is there a lot of dielectric between the wires - there is a great
deal more plastic than needed for mechanical strength.  I wonder what
would happen if one took a "railroad conductor's punch" and punched out
holes all along the web, leaving only enough PE to keep the wires together.

73, Van - W8UOF
[e-mail]



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:22:14 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 38
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4asiae$[e-mail]>
References: <4ahmhm$[e-mail]> <4almak$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:

>Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting,
>because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This
>means that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in
>the field.  I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be
>about as bad as flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad
>indeed!

I have about a hundred feet of "window" ladder line running to my
antenna.  The settings of the tuner change *considerably* when it
rains.

Last night I also experienced a new problem.  We had quite a bit of
snow the night before, and yesterday morning it rained, coating
everything with a thin film of ice.  Tuning up the ampifier last
night on 80 meters, it was impossible to keep the SWR constant.
Holding down the key caused the SWR to slowly drift upwards, and the
change over ten or fifteen seconds was significant.  It never
stabilized completely, but it finally settled down a little after an
hour or two of operating.

In the middle of this, I ran across a group on 75M who were all using
balanced feeders.  They had all experienced the same thing in the
past, and except for one guy, had changed to open wire.  The guy
who kept his window line changed his dipole to a loop, and he uses a
Variac and a 25 volt filament transformer in the shack to heat the
loop and line, which melts off the ice.

Unfortunately, I can't easily work on the antenna this time of year,
so I'm stuck with the problem until spring.  Wish I'd known about all
this earlier.  :(

Does anyone sell open wire line, or should I start collecting
the materials to build my own?

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!newssinet!news.nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp!wnoc-tyo-news!news.join.ad.jp!news.caren.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 16 Dec 1995 01:21:18 GMT
Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <4at6ue$[e-mail]>
References: <4asiae$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-29.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

;   [e-mail] (WB3U) writes:
;     [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:
;
;  >Nice use of a "slotted line"! The .78 velocity factor is interesting,
;  >because that's very close to what I've measured for TV twinlead. This
;  >means that the holes don't do much and there's a lot of dielectric in
;  >the field.  I'd expect from this that ladder line would therefore be
;  >about as bad as flat TV twinlead when it's wet -- and that's bad
;  >indeed!
;
;  I have about a hundred feet of "window" ladder line running to my
;  antenna.  The settings of the tuner change *considerably* when it
;  rains.
;
;  Last night I also experienced a new problem.  We had quite a bit of
;  snow the night before, and yesterday morning it rained, coating
;  everything with a thin film of ice.  Tuning up the ampifier last
;  night on 80 meters, it was impossible to keep the SWR constant.
;  Holding down the key caused the SWR to slowly drift upwards, and the
;  change over ten or fifteen seconds was significant.  It never
;  stabilized completely, but it finally settled down a little after an
;  hour or two of operating.

;. . .

Here are some measurements I made years ago and published in QST's
Technical Correspondence in Feb. 1982. I measured the matched loss of
100 feet of flat 300 ohm TV twinlead on 21 MHz.

Dry: 0.8 dB
After a light rain following two weeks of dry weather: 3.7 dB
During hard rain: 2.4 dB, slowly decreasing to 1.5 dB (the decrease
                  presumably due to the cable being "washed")
Laid on a wet wooden deck: 2.6 dB
Coiled: 4.4 dB

RG-58 loss at this frequency is about 1.9 dB.

If "ladder line" is anything like this, it wouldn't be wise to consider
"ladder line" a substitute for open-wire line.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 16 Dec 1995 11:06:51 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4auqqr$[e-mail]>
References: <4at6ue$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4at6ue$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>
>If "ladder line" is anything like this, it wouldn't be wise to consider
>"ladder line" a substitute for open-wire line.
>
>Roy Lewallen, W7EL
>
>
>

It would be interesting to measure some wet. I've never done that. It
isn't too bad dry, but then.....

Perhaps you are right, maybe wet the loss is pretty high. After all, 50%
of the wire to wire insulation is there. Insulation remains around the
point of maximum electric field concentration 100% of the length, since
the wires are coated!

Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:35:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usenet
From: Wes Stewart <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:46:29 GMT
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4avp95$[e-mail]>
References: <4at6ue$[e-mail]> <4auqqr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr6ip25.azstarnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>In article <4at6ue$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
>Lewallen) writes:

[snip]


>It would be interesting to measure some wet. I've never done that. It
>isn't too bad dry, but then.....
>
>Perhaps you are right, maybe wet the loss is pretty high. After all, 50%
>of the wire to wire insulation is there. Insulation remains around the
>point of maximum electric field concentration 100% of the length, since
>the wires are coated!
>
>Tom


Tom,

I am certainly not a fan of ladder line.  I believe that it is
highly over-rated, and have been saying so since QST published
"The Lure of the Ladder Line" and got me to take a hard look
at the claims. That said... do you believe it matters that
much that the portion of the wire between the poly "rungs",
ie the "window" portion is insulated?

Regards,

Wes




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!mindless!gary.rawson
From: [e-mail] (GARY RAWSON)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 13:01:00 -0400
Distribution: world
Organization: The MindLess One's BBS * Weirton, WV * 304-723-2133
Reply-To: [e-mail] (GARY RAWSON)
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 32

Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest
with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code
tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it
to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first
started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working
HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when
my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air
are listening it to this year.

73's
Gary
N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA
[e-mail]

... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
--- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10


-----------------------------------------------------------------
       The MindLess One's BBS [phone] Weirton, WV
        RIME #5266, FIDO 1:129/161, USENET mindless.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: Talon <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: Sat, 16 DEC 95 20:33:35 -0500
Organization: Delphi ([e-mail] email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1f.delphi.com
X-To: GARY RAWSON <[e-mail]>

GARY RAWSON <[e-mail]> writes:

>the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
>start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
>more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
>like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
>do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
>the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first

Keep At It. I got my No-Code Tech on March 29, 1994. I had put off getting
my Ham Ticket for over 20 years, solely because of the Code Requirement. (At
the time I thought of it as a *restriction*). After a year of being 'stuck'
on 2m, basically due to finances, I decided to at least go after my code. I
began my quest in March 95 and would listen to the tapes from 4 or 5
about 90 minutes per day. On 10/19/95 I passed
my 5wpm test. I am now studying for the Advanced level, yes, code too :).
Although I live in an apartment and am restricted my antenna covenants,
this will not dim my quest. My goal is to be an Advanced by the Olympics...
July in Atlanta. I do not have an Elmer, either, but,
Gary, just stick with it. It will be well worth it.
Good luck with the Scouts, too. A great time to plant the interest seed
in young minds.
Keep In Touch :)
73
de John Sokol
KE4KPV


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:02 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 17 Dec 95 06:17:39 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

In a message dated 95-12-16 20:48:58 EST, Gary Rawson wrote:

>I have a goal of gettin my General before
>October 1996.

> I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
>characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
>the more characters I miss.

Gary:
No one here will (should) not flame you for being a NO CODE TECH.  You took
the first step, now you are ready for the next

There is no single way that is best for everybody. Ask 20 people what worked
best for them, and you'll get 20 different answers.

When I first came in as a NOVICE, there was no such thing a NO CODE.  I took
classes from a local HAM CLUB, and bought an ARRL code tape.  I studied in
small segments, several times a day.  10 mimutes before work, 15 min when I
got home, 10 min before dinner, and 15 min before bedtime.  EVERYDAY
(almost).  3 months later I had my novice ticket.  Then I started working on
my 13 WPM.

Tapes are fine, but they are no replacement for ON THE AIR experience.  I
would suggest that when you pass your 5 WPM test, you get on the air and have
some FUN with CW.  Also, the ARRL code practice is pretty good.  Slow code
covers 5, 7.5 10,13, and 15 WPM, and fast practice covers 10,13,15,20,25, and
30 WPM.  Before you go in for your 13 WPM test, you want to be good at 15,
and even dabble with 20 WPM.

Test day, get a good nights sleep before, get up in plenty of time so you
won't be rushed, eat a good breakfast, and RELAX.  NO BIG THING!

The lower portion of the bands do get a bit crowded, so you may want to get a
good narrow CW filter for the IF section of your radio.

Feel free to ask any questions here or me directly.  Like an old prof. of
mine once said, "there's no such thing as a stupid question".

Good Luck,

Bob
KD8WU


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:03 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech2!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!pineapp
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Curry)
Subject: Re: Mob.ant (screw driver)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom-Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:32:05 GMT
Lines: 24
Sender: [e-mail]

Will ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hello, I am looking for info on the *screw driver*type mobile antenna.
: Is it a kit or are there any plans or??
: Any info is welcome.
: 73 de Will,  KN6DV

  Send a SASE to
Don Johnson W6AAQ
26659 Capay Street
Box 595
Esparto, Ca. 95627-0595

Or Order His book '40+5 HF years mobiling'
via World Radio  Magazine
Sacramento , Ca.

Cost is about 14.00 Dollars.
 I do not have Worldradio Magazine full address. If you pick one
up and look towards the back. You will see Don's book.
--
.----------------------------------------------+--------------------------.
| INTERNET: [e-mail]     (DC436)     | Daniel Curry             |
| AMPRNET : [e-mail]  [44.4.20.144] | WB6STW                   |
| AX.25   : wb6stw@n0ary.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NOAM    | DoD # 1450               |
'----------------------------------------------+--------------------------'


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:04 1995
Path: news.epix.net!peach.epix.net!will
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mob.ant (screw driver)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:03:54 -0500
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peach.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>


On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Daniel Curry wrote:

> Or Order His book '40+5 HF years mobiling'
> via World Radio  Magazine
> Sacramento , Ca.
>
> Cost is about 14.00 Dollars.
>  I do not have Worldradio Magazine full address. If you pick one
> up and look towards the back. You will see Don's book.


WORLDRADIO BOOKS is PO Box 189490, Sacremento CA 95818


[e-mail] - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.structured.net!news.ism.net!optim.ism.net!chad
From: Chad Payne <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:11:18 -0700
Organization: Internet Services Montana, Inc.
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
References: <4a7j00$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: optim.ism.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <4a7j00$[e-mail]>
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25026 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17746

> I just saw some antennas at Radio Shack that look just like cell phone
> antennas (coupled through the glass).  That looks perfect if the
> quality is reasonable.  They are specifically listed as CB antennas.
> Does anyone know how well these work?  Would performance be close to
> the whip, somewhere in between, or about the same as the flexible one?
> Any comments would be appreciated here or via e-mail.

These cell phone look alike antennas work but not very well.  You
probably wouldn't see much difference between them and your rubber duckie
antenna.  Your best bet is to stick with the mag mount and take it on and
off when ever you go in the garrage.  That is what I have to do.

Chad



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (David Willmore)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need help with spacing of J-pole match
Date: 15 Dec 1995 19:38:03 -0600
Organization: MCSNet Services
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4at7tr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.mcs.com
Summary: How far apart should the 1/2" pipe be?
Keywords: J-pole matching

I'm building (should say that I have built most of) a J-pole antenna for 2m.
I've got the 3/4-l and the 1/4-l sections soldered and ready, but I couldn't
decide how long the joining piece should be.  I know that it forms a
transmission line between the lower 1/4-l piece of the 3/4-l section and
that the spacing would be dependant on the pipe diameter.  I guess that
tuning the feed position can tune out that parameter, but is that correct?

Am I making sense?  Should I just cut an inch or two piece and just tune
for the lowest SWR when I'm done?

Cheers,
David


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:07 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!idir.net!idts1lw19.idir.net!user
From: [e-mail] (gloria medcalf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,rec.radio.amateur.swap
Subject: New Ham Web Site with Information Content
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:19:58 -0600
Organization: Internet Direct Communications - Lawrence, Ks - [phone]
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: idts1lw19.idir.net
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17706 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13130 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22573 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12143 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95599 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32189 rec.radio.amateur.space:5950


A new ham radio related web site is on-line. It contains Articles
and Radio-TNC Wiring Diagrams.

URL: http://www.idir.net/~medcalf/ztx/

Current Articles

    Desense: Some Possible Solutions

    TOR Modes: Hearing the Difference (includes sound files)

    Getting Information from a Weathernode

I plan to add an article approximately once a month. These articles may
be reprinted in amateur radio club newsletters provided that credit is
given to the author.

73 gloria ka5ztx   [e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: plans for copper tubing jpole
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:19:30 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4apiq2$[e-mail]>
References: <4aiu3c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip13.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (RICK LUTZ) wrote:

>I am trying to locate the plans for a copper tubing (about 1/2 or 3/4 in)
>jpole. a friend wants to build one up and i am concerned about velocity
>factors and spacing and would like a proven plan. thanks

>73--KD4SEV
Hi Rick

The plans for my copper cactus antenna and other information on
J-Poles can be obtained from my web page http://www.inlink.com/~raiar

Gary
KG0ZP




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sparky.midwest.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gayle Albert)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Quad Antenna Design Software?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 05:34:57 GMT
Organization: Midwest Internet
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4avfkb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial4-20.midwest.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hello, Folks:

Does anyone know of any easy to use software that does design,
evaluation, and optimization for quad antennas?

What I am looking for is something like Yagi Max only for quads. I
have tried several of the NEC programs (PD/Shareware) but they are
harder to use than just doing the calculations by hand!

I would prefer PD/Shareware programs (for PCs) but would also like
comments on commercial software.

Thanks!

Marty Albert -- KC6UFM

Marty Albert -- KC6UFM



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (MARKTAINT)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Question about Sommer vertical antenna
Date: 15 Dec 1995 21:33:33 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4atb5t$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (MARKTAINT)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I'm interested in comments that anyone has regarding the Sommer HF
Skydisk. It looks interesting and the price is comparable to other vert.
antennas.
Please e-mail or post responses about this antenna.

Thanks very much.

Mark Taintor    N0YRW

[e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.aero.org!news2.aero.org!news2
From: [e-mail] (Clark W. Hanley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Rec Info on Bi-Conical antenna's
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 23:20:07 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4asvr8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: co328.aero.org
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Hi All

   Can anyone give me a pointer to design equations and theory for
Bi-Conical antennas?  I know thay are vary broud band and are simaler
to disk cone antennas but have a second cone in place of the disk.

   I am looking for an antenna that will cover 30 to 80 MHz without
operator tunning, is omni directional and portable (set up at a fixed
location).  I have seen skeletonized antennas of this type in use but
am interested in more detail than can be had from visual observation.

   If anyone has suggestions for a mobil design and/or portable (HT)
design to cover the same frequency range I would also be interested.

Thanks for your time and help.  Clark    KA2NWL

[e-mail]



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interport.net!usenet
From: Michael Neidich <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rec Info on Bi-Conical antenna's
Date: 17 Dec 1995 11:56:21 GMT
Organization: Interport Communications Corp.
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4b10h5$[e-mail]>
References: <4asvr8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: neidich.port.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

Hi,
Biconicals are not real practical for that band.  The distance from the
ground plane disk to the cone or elements should be roughly 1/4 wave.
Dimensions for making your own are in all the antenna design handbooks.
For VHF/UHF and above they are practical, but the commercial ones are so
inexpensive it doesn't pay to make your own.
73 from K2ENN




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: L. Figueroa <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RF Circuit Designer( E-Mail Corr.)
Date: 14 Dec 1995 06:30:56 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4aogb0$lo4$[e-mail]>
References: <4ae37o$nt9$[e-mail]>

The correct E-Mail is: [e-mail]

--
LF


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!hawk.global.co.za!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: RF/ID newsletter
Date: 15 Dec 1995 11:13:24 GMT
Organization: rfid technologies
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4arl8k$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: anx_30.global.co.za
X-To: ALL
X-Mailer: SlipStream Jet v1.022A (Alpha)
X-Registration: GRLXGQQR


A new news service on the developments of Radio Frequency Identification
systems (RFID) called Transponder News, has been launched at
http://www.pix.za/trolley/news.html.

It also has a list of patents that are shaping this industry.

Cheers

Mike
---
 ■ SPEED 2.00 #1730 ■ ... A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
>> Slipstream Jet - The QWK solution for Usenets #GRLXGQQR



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.mci.newscorp.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!panix!jimbo.dialup.access.net!user
From: [e-mail] (James C. Brost)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RG-58 cripples antenna
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:07:49 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jimbo.dialup.access.net
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.6b4

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (charles
copeland) wrote:

> I live in a first story apartment and own a TS-820. I use a 64 foot
> dipole strung along top of wall. Up to yesterday I did not even have
> coax, but just had a banana plug running up to one leg of dipole.
> It loaded fine, and was able to achieve 1:1 SWR on 40, 80 meters.
>
> I tried to pretty it up and added 10' of RG-58 to top of wall and
> split out to dipole. When I did this my SWR went to 1:2 on 80 meters
> and was not quit as good on 40 meters. I used a T-1000 tuner.
>
> Why did my SWR drop so badly with such a small peice of RG-58?

This is why many still use ladder line. The real issue is not what SWR can
tune the radio to, but how much signal is lost in the feed line. The tuner
will keep the signal from going back into the transmitter, which IS
important, but will not stop the signal from being burned up in the
lead-in. Chances are the coax is getting quite warm. Ladder line will
operate under higher SWR's without as much loss (an FCC test question).
With a perfectly cut antenna, this would make little differnce, but when
the dipole is too long (a big improvement) will be seen using ladder line.
The banna plug was more like a random wire antenna, where there is no feed
line, and the antenna was much longer.

--
[e-mail] (Internet)

KB2WDI@NY2S.#NLI.NY.USA.NA (AX.25 Packet)
[e-mail] (TCP/IP Packet)


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: RG-58 cripples antenna
Date: 15 Dec 1995 16:12:12 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4as6os$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

In article <[e-mail]>,
charles copeland <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Why did my SWR drop so badly with such a small peice of RG-58?

Transmission lines can have reflections or not. With no reflections,
the impedance all along the transmission line is "flat" i.e. constant
and equal to the characteristic impedance of the line. Under these
circumstances, adding or subtracting lengths of line won't change
things by much.

However, on a transmission line with reflections, the impedance
along the line is not flat. The higher the SWR the greater the
swings in impedances. The ten feet of coax is transforming the
impedance at one end to a quite different value at the other
end because of the high SWR.

Without sophisticated test equipment, it is difficult to determine
these impedances using coax. That's one reason I like ladder-line.
With a voltmeter and a $1 test loop, one can determine everything
one needs to know about one's antenna system.

73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn
From: Jim Fellows <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna?
Date: 13 Dec 1995 23:19:43 GMT
Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos.
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <4ann2f$[e-mail]>
References: <3s1h6k$[e-mail]> <4ailkr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22)
X-URL: news:4ailkr$[e-mail]

[e-mail] (Chris Dunlap) wrote:
>[e-mail] (Jason Smith) wrote:
>
>>Could anyone recommend a good scanner costing under 75$'s for a Uniden
>>Bearcat BC700A that has 800\900mhz frequencys?
>
>I find that the discone antenna from Radio Shack works well when you
>buy a male to male adapter and affix a 102" steel whip to it. I get
>everything!
>
>Chris D
>



This brings up an interesting point.  The Radio Shack discone antenna has
specifications claiming a bandwidth of either 30 or 50 MHz to ~1300 MHz.

This is false and misleading as well as impossible from the physics of discone
antennas with this size of discone.  Also discone physics under perfect ideal
conditions only provide a 10:1 MAXf/MINf.

What Radio Shack has apparantly done is purchase another manufacturers antenna
and relabel it as their own.  Common practice, especially for Radio Shack.  I
beleive the true manuafacturer is Diamond Antenna, which sells a quasi-discone
with the same bandwidth claims.  What is included with the Diamond version and
left out on the Radio Shack version is a base loaded whip.  This then combines
the discone with what essentially turns out to be a ground plane antenna at
frequencies below about 150 MHZ.

So adding a whip is exactly what the original design called for for the claimed
bandwidth.

Two by-the-ways:

1)  The Diamond antenna can be purchased for the same or lower price vs. Radio
Shack with better performance due to the whip.

2)  I have informed Radio Shack Corporate with the error in their claim for the
antenna several times over about six years.  I have received only one response
for several correspondences.  This response was merely a form letter thanking
me for my interest in Radio Shack equipment.

Jim

--
"It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear", Norm Peterson.
The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!!
Green Acres *IS* the place to be!                           [e-mail]



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!csnews!coopnews.coop.net!news.den.mmc.com!NewsWatcher!user
From: [e-mail] (Booth, Thomas G)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna?
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 14 Dec 1995 07:10:39 GMT
Organization: A Turbulent One
Lines: 18
Distribution: usa
Message-ID: <thomas.g.booth-141295000501@160.205.101.24>
References: <3s1h6k$[e-mail]> <4ailkr$[e-mail]> <4ann2f$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 160.205.101.24

In article <4ann2f$[e-mail]>, Jim Fellows
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>
(snipped discussion re:  Radio Shack's discone antenna & its poor
performance below 2m w/o a vertical whip added)
>
> 2)  I have informed Radio Shack Corporate with the error in their claim for
> the antenna several times over about six years.  I have received only one
> response for several correspondences.  This response was merely a form letter
> thanking me for my interest in Radio Shack equipment.
>
Jim, maybe next time you ought to send a letter to both Radio Shack and the
Federal Trade Commission & see what happens (though I doubt the FTC will
act, but you never know...).

TGB

\\ The opinions expressed herein are my own. //


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn
From: Jim Fellows <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Scanner Antenna?
Date: 14 Dec 1995 18:11:09 GMT
Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos.
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4appbt$[e-mail]>
References: <3s1h6k$[e-mail]> <4ailkr$[e-mail]> <4ann2f$[e-mail]> <thomas.g.booth-141295000501@160.205.101.24>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22)
X-URL: news:thomas.g.booth-141295000501@160.205.101.24

[e-mail] (Booth, Thomas G) wrote:
>In article <4ann2f$[e-mail]>, Jim Fellows
><[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>(snipped discussion re:  Radio Shack's discone antenna & its poor
>performance below 2m w/o a vertical whip added)
>>
>> 2)  I have informed Radio Shack Corporate with the error in their claim for
>> the antenna several times over about six years.  I have received only one
>> response for several correspondences.  This response was merely a form letter
>> thanking me for my interest in Radio Shack equipment.
>>
>Jim, maybe next time you ought to send a letter to both Radio Shack and the
>Federal Trade Commission & see what happens (though I doubt the FTC will
>act, but you never know...).
>
>TGB
>
>\\ The opinions expressed herein are my own. //

Exactly my thoughts.  But I remeber a few years ago a class action lawsuit
concerning the price fixing of 15 cent bottles of plastic model paint.  The
teenage kid became quite wealthy very quickly. =8~}

But since I'm philosopically opposed to the litigous nature of the U.S. and I
hates them damn sharks I'll probably stay semi-poor.

Jim


--
"It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear", Norm Peterson.
The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!!
Green Acres *IS* the place to be!                           [e-mail]



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (PDema20315)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: scanner freq.listings on cd roms
Date: 15 Dec 1995 22:01:01 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 2
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4atcpd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (PDema20315)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

can anyone supply a source for public agency freqs on cd roms..for new
york tri-state area or nationwide


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: 13 Dec 1995 04:59:29 GMT
Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4almjh$[e-mail]>
References: <4aja73$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-45.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

;   [e-mail] (WB3U) writes:
;     [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
; . . .
;  >Now here's a stupid answer..
;  >Actually, I use zip cord and regular wall plugs for my antennas. That
;  >way I don't need a rig, I just plug the antenna directly into the
;  >outlet. I'm the guy with all the hum.....    zzzzzzzzzzzz ;-)
;
;  I load my rig into the phone line.  By calling different cities, I
;  can resonate the line on different frequencies.  The new fiber plants
;  are ruining the radiation pattern though.  :)

Well, I hook my feedline to the sewer, and by . . .
never mind. Guess you all knew I do, anyhow.

Roy



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: 14 Dec 1995 17:01:58 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 13
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4aq6sm$[e-mail]>
References: <4almjh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4almjh$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>Well, I hook my feedline to the sewer, and by . . .
>never mind. Guess you all knew I do, anyhow.
>
>Roy

I thought your signal sounded crappy the other day. But that was quite a
pile up on you!

(this is getting weird)
Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Electrophi)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: 15 Dec 1995 14:38:32 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 2
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4asiro$[e-mail]>
References: <4almjh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

I tune up my wifes stove works pretty good on 20 meters
har


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!salt.ncinter.net!iansmith
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stupid transmission line problem
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:18:41 GMT
Organization: North Coast Internet
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4at36t$[e-mail]>
References: <4aja73$[e-mail]> <4almjh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin0.ncinter.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:

>;   [e-mail] (WB3U) writes:
>;     [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>; . . .
>;  >Now here's a stupid answer..
>;  >Actually, I use zip cord and regular wall plugs for my antennas. That
>;  >way I don't need a rig, I just plug the antenna directly into the
>;  >outlet. I'm the guy with all the hum.....    zzzzzzzzzzzz ;-)
>;
>;  I load my rig into the phone line.  By calling different cities, I
>;  can resonate the line on different frequencies.  The new fiber plants
>;  are ruining the radiation pattern though.  :)

>Well, I hook my feedline to the sewer, and by . . .
>never mind. Guess you all knew I do, anyhow.

>Roy

Test



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Sam Maynard )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Suggestions for mobile antenna mounting
Date: 14 Dec 1995 18:26:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4apq9e$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-mvo-ca1-15.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 14 10:26:54 AM PST 1995

I just purchased a 95 Ford 150 Econoline Conversion Van.  The van has a
fiberglass roof.  I want to mount a mobile 2m/70cm antenna.  Since the
roof is fiberglass, mag-mount is out, and I don't want to punch any
holes (my wife would kill me, if I did).  Although, it has an
approximately 1" gutter around the veh.  The roof is raised about 1' or
so above the gutter.  I was woundering if there is low profile (about
the size of a Comet B-10) 2m/70cm antenna that has a gutter mount.  Or
maybe I could make and attach a bracket, with a 3/4" hole, to the
gutter and use an NMO mount type antenna.  Also, with a low profile
antenna mounted to the gutter, and with the roof being about 12"-15"
above the gutter, would there be any RF reflections off the fiberglass
roof?  Does anyone have any other suggestion or ideas?  Any comments
would be appreciated.

73,

Sam - KD6PHZ


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!salt.ncinter.net!iansmith
From: test
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: test
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:20:47 GMT
Organization: North Coast Internet
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4at3ar$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin0.ncinter.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82





From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!oleane!pressimage!usenet
From: Philippe CUVINOT <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Un francΘs estß buscando contacto
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 01:01:41 -0800
Organization: Pressimage, France
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ncy1-15.planete.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2a (Windows; I; 16bit)
Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43371 soc.culture.uruguay:4675 soc.culture.spain:83561 soc.culture.peru:10990 soc.culture.mexican.american:7892 soc.culture.latin-america:39821 soc.culture.ecuador:4261 soc.culture.cuba:31716 soc.culture.colombia:12492 soc.culture.chile:32334 soc.culture.bolivia:10715 soc.culture.argentina:28715 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32204 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95639 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12163 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22612 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13142 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17729

Hola,

Soy francΘs y estoy buscando a amigos para conversar acerca de temas
latino americanos. Me interesa muchφsimo la cultura precolombina y
estoy realizando una pßgina a prop≤sito de las grandes civilizaciones.
Escribanme para darme ideas interesantes. Gracias.
Hasta pronto, Philippe.


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:27 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.structured.net!news.ism.net!optim.ism.net!chad
From: Chad Payne <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:55:12 -0700
Organization: Internet Services Montana, Inc.
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4a72qd$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: optim.ism.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <4a72qd$[e-mail]>

> We took the guys off the pole during a tree removal from my yard and
> they were never replaced.  Even in the high winds that come through it
> has stood solid.
>
> The mast is mounted on a 1/2 inch horseshoe pole driven into the
> ground and attatched at the eave of the house with pipe-strap.  No
> other support or guys.

You must not get very high winds in your area.  Just last week we had
consistant gusts up to 77mph here.  It bent my 2" thick 10' steel mast
right in half.

Chad in Missoula, MT
Big Sky and Wind country



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:28 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jgardner
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Gardner)
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <4a72qd$[e-mail]> <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 20:39:17 GMT
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]

Chad Payne ([e-mail]) wrote:
: > We took the guys off the pole during a tree removal from my yard and
: > they were never replaced.  Even in the high winds that come through it
: > has stood solid.
: >
: > The mast is mounted on a 1/2 inch horseshoe pole driven into the
: > ground and attatched at the eave of the house with pipe-strap.  No
: > other support or guys.

: You must not get very high winds in your area.  Just last week we had
: consistant gusts up to 77mph here.  It bent my 2" thick 10' steel mast
: right in half.

We had winds to 134mph here a few nights ago. You would have had to search
the neighborhood to find the remains of your unguyed pole...








--
Jerry Gardner          | Maintainer of the Large Format Digest
[e-mail]    | Send subscription requests to [e-mail]


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!van-bc!fonorola!news.magi.com!newsadm
From: David Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 12:11:35 GMT
Organization: BDX Bush Dog Exploration
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b11dn$[e-mail]>
References: <4aaccl$[e-mail]> <4ahuga$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: magi02p08.magi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (Kelly Qualls) wrote:
>[e-mail] (Keith O. Berry) wrote:
>
>>I would like to here from anyone who has mounted a VHF/UHF antenna on their
>>Ford Explorer.  I have a '96 witha moonroof and park in a garage, so the
>>antenna drags going in and out.  With the exception of mounting on the fender
>>in front of the driver, where else has anyone mounted one??
>

There's an interesting article in Dec QST about mounting HF antennas on
the trailer hitch.  Not too practical for VHF, but at least you wouldn't
have to get out of the truck every time you go into a garage.



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cheatum.frontiernet.net!Empire.Net!news.net99.net!news.corpcomm.net!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (DSetser)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Ant. on Ford Explorer?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 11:17:10 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 9
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b1fq6$[e-mail]>
References: <4aaccl$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (DSetser)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I mounted a Larsen KG2-70PL glass-mount dual-band antenna on one of the
rear side windows of my '93 Explorer, and it works reasonably well.  I did
some research, including calling Ford's glass manufacturer, to make sure
that there were no metal elements in the window tint which would screw up
the antenna.

Email me at [e-mail] if you have any questions.

Dave Setser


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.interport.net!usenet
From: Michael Neidich <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Wanted: Zenith TransOceanic R7000-1
Date: 17 Dec 1995 11:58:23 GMT
Organization: Interport Communications Corp.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4b10kv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: neidich.port.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

I need 12 band R7000-1 Taiwan made.
Pls describe condition, especially if BFO zero beat can be achieved due
to some mechanical problems in the fine tuning.
73 from K2ENN




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas
From: [e-mail] (Bob Tomas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 14 Dec 1995 20:38:36 GMT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <4aq20c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu

I have a butternut vertical in my back yard---its mounted on the ground.
My primary interest is in working DX.

I currently have 18 radials:

                8 at 8  feet
               10 at 25 feet
                2 at 34 feet


The antenna is about 26 feet tall.  I bought 500 feet of wire and am planning
to install more radials beginning this weekend.  I have a few questions and
am would appreciate feedback based upon experience, data, hear-say, and
even wild speculation.  The latter includes numerical modeling results (grin).


1) I have read in several books that there is not much to be gained by
using radials much longer than the element length (26 feet).  Is this
true?

2) If 1 is true, it looks like I am going to add 20 new 25 foot radials.
Assuming that I live in an area with average ground resistance, any
guesses on what sort of differences this will make?

My best guess is that improvement will be observed for two reasons:

        a)  On the low bands, particularly 80m---where the antenna is
            quite short, ground losses will decrease and efficiency
            will increase.
        b)  On all bands, the improved ground will act to decrease the
            angle of radiation.

3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive
performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e.,
increased efficiency and lower radiation angles).

4) Finally, some of the radials will terminate very near corrugated steel
window wells that are buried about 4 feet in the ground.  Is there anything
to be gained (or lost) by attaching the end of the radial to these large
pieces of grounded metal?  If it matters, the base of the antenna is connected
to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod very near its base.

Thanks and  Happy Holidays,

bob
n7nd


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!rahul.net!a2i!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in2.uu.net!library.erc.clarkson.edu!multiverse!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.rcinet.com!sally.dma.org!millersg
From: [e-mail] (Steve Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 15 Dec 1995 03:11:52 GMT
Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio, USA
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <4aqp1o$[e-mail]>
References: <4aq20c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dmapub.dma.org

In article <4aq20c$[e-mail]>, Bob Tomas <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I have a butternut vertical in my back yard---its mounted on the ground.
>My primary interest is in working DX.
<snip>
>1) I have read in several books that there is not much to be gained by
>using radials much longer than the element length (26 feet).  Is this
>true?

From an efficiency standpoint, this is mostly true. Efficiency will
continue to increase with longer radials but you won't gain more
than a few tenths of a dB.

>2) If 1 is true, it looks like I am going to add 20 new 25 foot radials.
>Assuming that I live in an area with average ground resistance, any
>guesses on what sort of differences this will make?

That's hard to speculate. You can determine the improvement in efficiency
by comparing SWR before and after adding the additional radials. This
change will be most apparent on 80m.  There, radiation resistance is its
lowest and the equivalent loss resistance (due to ground losses) has a
greater impact on the input impedance than the other bands which
have a higher radiation resistance.

On my last contest DXpedition to J6, I calculated about a 2.5 dB
improvement in efficiency based on VSWR readings with just a few radials
(~8) and later after laying all 40+ radials. We used a 44 foot top
loaded vertical. However, the ground conductivity is not too good there
so radials are more important.

>My best guess is that improvement will be observed for two reasons:
>       a)  On the low bands, particularly 80m---where the antenna is
>            quite short, ground losses will decrease and efficiency
>            will increase.

Yes.

>        b)  On all bands, the improved ground will act to decrease the
>            angle of radiation.

No, not to any significant degree - you need several VERY long radials
to improve the gain at low elevation angles.

>3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive
>performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e.,
>increased efficiency and lower radiation angles).

Yes, if the receiver input impedance is not drastically different.

>4) Finally, some of the radials will terminate very near corrugated steel
>window wells that are buried about 4 feet in the ground.  Is there anything
>to be gained (or lost) by attaching the end of the radial to these large
>pieces of grounded metal?  If it matters, the base of the antenna is connected
>to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod very near its base.

You will have a more extensive radial system and thus be more efficient.
Note that joining dissimilar metals may cause corrosion.
--
Steve Miller
[e-mail]
WD8IXE - Ridin' the aethereal waves


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:35 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 15 Dec 1995 08:36:53 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 25
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4artll$[e-mail]>
References: <4aqp1o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Steve,

From measurements here last fall on 80 meters with 1/4 wl radials over
soil estimated at 4mS/M by dipole impedance measurements at low height. I
measured the following...

>Field strength measurements follow. Four different basic radial systems
were tested, >4, 8,16, and 60 wires. The highest reading came from 60
surface radials, so all other >systems are dB down from that system, or
percent of the 60 radial surface system.
>
>8 foot high counterpoise system. 4 wires  37 percent -4.3 dB 20.1 mV, 8
wires 58 >percent -2.38 dB 25 mV, 16 wires 86 percent -.63 dB 28.7 mV , 60
wires 96 percent >-.18 dB 32.5 mV

>ground surface mounted radials
>4 wires 28 percent -5.5 dB 17.5 mV, 8 wires 53 percent -2.73 dB 24 mV, 16
>wires 74 percent -1.3 dB 28.4 mV,  60 wires reference 100 percent 0 dB 33
mV.
>

You see this information indicates around 2.7 dB loss when 8 radials were
compared to 60 radials. Pretty close to your estimate!!!

73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!psgrain!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Terry Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 15 Dec 1995 12:28:57 -0800
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <4aslq9$[e-mail]>
References: <4aq20c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com

In article <4aq20c$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bob Tomas) writes:
>I have a butternut vertical in my back yard---its mounted on the ground.
>My primary interest is in working DX.
>
>I currently have 18 radials:
>
>1) I have read in several books that there is not much to be gained by
>using radials much longer than the element length (26 feet).  Is this
>true?

I would definately say the length of the antenna does not change the fact
that radials should be 1/4 wavelength or multiples of that. On the ground
this is not as important as in an above ground 'ground plane' installation.
Basically, you should cut the radials for the bottom of each band you are
working. Example, about 16.71 feet for 14 Mhz (234/f), 33.43 for 7 Mhz, etc.
There have also been studies done that suggested twice as many 1/8 wavelength
radials are as good or maybe better than half as many 1/4 wavelength radials.

What the books are referring to I believe is where the close in reflection
of the wave is occurring and 'hopefully' combining that with the direct wave
taking off from the antenna at a given angel of radiation. Generally speaking
I doubt you have much control over this. Unless you live by the ocean or
can lay radials out to many wavelengths or have optimum soil conditions
what control do you have over how this wave reflects and adds to or subtracts
from the direct wave?
>
Put down 8 or 16 radials for each band as evenly spaced as possible, the more
the better. But try and get them evenly spaced in a 360 degree circle.
That way your pattern should be as clean as possible.

>
>My best guess is that improvement will be observed for two reasons:
>
>       a)  On the low bands, particularly 80m---where the antenna is
>            quite short, ground losses will decrease and efficiency

Maybe. Another thing you might try is a capacitance hat to broaden your
bandwidth on 80. This WILL definately effect the other band's adjustments
so expect to do quite a bit of retuning. Got this idea from a fellow who
did it on an HF-2V 160/80/40 vertical. Gave him alot more bandwidth on
80 meters (as opposed to the 25Khz or so you normally get with a Butternut).

>            will increase.
>        b)  On all bands, the improved ground will act to decrease the
>            angle of radiation.

No way. It will increase efficiency of the ground system. This has nothing
to do will lowering the angel of radiation. It just helps optimize what
the antenna is capable of. To effect your angel of radiation you have to
change the length of the radiator and the most optimum length is 5/8 wave-
length. Other than that, you can stack verticals like they do on 2 meters
and higher but on HF this gets pretty BIG depending on the band. And they
have to be phased properly. (see the Vertical Antenna Handbook put on by
CQ publishing. I forget the authors name but he is a retired Naval man
and did work in this area)

>
>3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive
>performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e.,
>increased efficiency and lower radiation angles).

IF you improve the ground system chances are the vertical will improve
for DX (low angel) contacts. It may even degrade the performance on local
(high angel) contacts. This is all dependant on the actual length of the
vertical radiator in relationship to it's wavelength. A Butternut HF6V(X) on 20
meters is approximately 3/8 wavelength long. Look in one of the antenna
handbooks or the Vertical Antenna Handbook to see what angel of radiation
this gives. I don't recall right off the top of my head. On the other bands
it is different of course. The point is you are optimizing your system for
what it is capable of doing. Both receive and transmit!
>
>4) Finally, some of the radials will terminate very near corrugated steel
>window wells that are buried about 4 feet in the ground.  Is there anything
>to be gained (or lost) by attaching the end of the radial to these large
>pieces of grounded metal?  If it matters, the base of the antenna is connected
>to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod very near its base.
>
Probably wouldn't hurt. Realize if lightning strikes that is going to catch
some of the charge.(will anyway I suppose)
>Thanks and  Happy Holidays,
>bob
>n7nd


Good luck. Now, how do I get my quad back up in the air after that wind
storm? Didn't have this problem with the HF6V!

Terry
KI7M



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 16 Dec 1995 12:56:49 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 57
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4av191$[e-mail]>
References: <4aslq9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4aslq9$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Terry Burge) writes:

>
>I would definately say the length of the antenna does not change the fact
>that radials should be 1/4 wavelength or multiples of that.


>No way. It will increase efficiency of the ground system. This has
nothing
>to do will lowering the angel of radiation. It just helps optimize what
>the antenna is capable of.

>>3) Maybe the answer is obvious but I will ask it anyway: will receive
>>performance change in ways that mirror transmit performance (i.e.,
>>increased efficiency and lower radiation angles).

>
>IF you improve the ground system chances are the vertical will improve
>for DX (low angel) contacts. It may even degrade the performance on local
>(high angel) contacts.

Only if the radials were radiating. Your earlier statement was exactly
correct. NO WAY does adding rdials change the wave angle unless the
radials are VERY long. Several wavelengths!

'snip
>it is different of course. The point is you are optimizing your system
for
>what it is capable of doing. Both receive and transmit!

Right on. I'd like to add, another important point. Improving the ground
reduces noise conducted down the feedline to the antenna terminals.
Conducted noise can pump the radial connection up and down with unwanted
noise signal and apply noise to the receive system. The thread on the Doty
article illustrates how the feedline becomes part of the current carrying
system. It also holds true on receive!

If the feedline is part of the radiating system (from a poor ground or
lack of a feedline choke balun), noise from the shack and transmitter will
get in the system. That's because a poorly grounded antenna *depends* on
the feedline and station (and eventually power lines) as part of the
ground system!

That happens here on my receiving antennas, so I use chokes on the leads
and good grounds at the antennas. As a matter of fact, I use choke baluns
on all my antennas, even verticals. It not only stops RF trouble, it
retards lightning damage!

>Terry
>KI7M

Great answers Terry, and all *VERY* true.  Where did you learn that info?
Most amateur books misconstrue that stuff. You either must have a lot of
practical experience or gotten some good material.

73 Tom


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.akorn.net!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Dave Pascoe KM3T)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Wrist rocket
Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:55:58 GMT
Organization: Akorn Access, Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4avpqv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: paris.akorn.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950824BETA PL0]

I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot
which is useful for launching wires up over trees.

Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net.

73
Dave
KM3T


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:40 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!iglou!iglou2!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: Wrist rocket
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2.iglou.com
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <4avpqv$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 03:41:36 GMT
Lines: 14

Look at any large sporting goods store. I got mine at Allied.


Dave Pascoe KM3T ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot
: which is useful for launching wires up over trees.

: Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net.

: 73
: Dave
: KM3T
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wrist rocket
Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:58:24 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4b1lo0$[e-mail]>
References: <4avpqv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail505.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (Steve Ellington) wrote:
>Look at any large sporting goods store. I got mine at Allied.
>
>
>Dave Pascoe KM3T ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot
>: which is useful for launching wires up over trees.
>: Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net.
>: 73
>: Dave
>: KM3T

I bought mine at Wallmart...great tool for installing wire antennas. I
use monofilament line (about 30 lb test) tied to an egg shaped 1 oz. lead
fishing weight. I've found this to be the best combonation for accuracy
for me. Once the monofilimant is shot over the tree and in the correct
location, I remove the weight from the far end and pull the rope/cord
back through the tree. The monofilament "flys" a lot better than masonry
cord or wire.

73 de WB4IUY



From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!sgigate.sgi.com!news1.best.com!pravda.aa.msen.com!news
From: [e-mail] (AA8NF - Joe)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wrist rocket
Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:06:19 GMT
Organization: DRs Mesh, P.C.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4b1imb$[e-mail]>
References: <4avpqv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com

Try a Meir's 24 hour store near you!   I got mine there...

--
Thanks....AA8NF - Joe
from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA
12/17/95      12:04
_______________________________________
Always available at:
   [e-mail]  -or-  [e-mail]
   Please visit our Web Page at:
   http://www.drsmesh.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.1

mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk
ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/
PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br
LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4
vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR
ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs
bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg==
=+hd/
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!news.qnet.com!usenet
From: Will <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: WTB:Cuscraft D3W
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 02:38:37 -0800
Organization: Quantum Networking Solutions; Virginia, USA; [e-mail]
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup59.palm.ca.qnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)
CC: rec.radio.swap

I am looking for a D3W Cushcraft WARC dipole.
Thanks 73 de Will.


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:43 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!icon!greg
From: [e-mail] (Greg Dolkas)
Subject: Yagi antenna on 3rd harmonic?
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:42:30 GMT
Organization: HP - Information Networks Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]
Lines: 12


Just curious...

What happens when you operate a typical beam antenna (say, 2m) on its 3rd
harmonic (70cm)?  I expect the pattern will change, but to what?  How about
the feed point impedance?  Gain (or lack thereof)?

Several manufacturers have "dual band" beams, but if you look at the pictures
it is clear that they really are two independent antennas mounted on the same
beam, one "inside" the other.

Greg  KO6TH


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on freespace path loss"
Date: 16 Dec 95 04:52:38 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "on" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Sun Dec 17 15:36:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on freespace path loss"
Date: 15 Dec 95 17:03:16 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "on" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: William Chueh <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: **cheap battary and antenna**
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:01:32 -0800
Organization: Maha C & E Inc.
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan177.kaiwan.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I)

To Every ham:

        Exciting news, I found one company that
      carry battary at very low price .
      Kenwoord, Icom, Yaesu, Motorola. The
      company is MAHA COMMUNICATION. They are
      also looking for regional dealer. Contact
      them at 8183334497 in LA,CA. (They don't
      like a single quantity order, combine your
      club order for a special price, *Shipping
      free for club!). They also got TS (Taiwan
      Serene) Antenna, and ADI Radio!


                        William Chueh
                        [e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!guardian.up.edu!gateway.sequent.com!news.orst.edu!news.PEAK.ORG!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!netnews.cc.wwu.edu!netnews1.nwnet.net!news.u.washington.edu!root
From: Mike Bunney <mbunney>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 meter antenna
Date: 19 Dec 1995 21:24:29 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4b7aid$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sappho1.u.washington.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NNTP-Posting-User: mbunney
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (X11; I; AIX 2)
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna

I am currently using a Cushcraft ARX 2B vertical connected to my 2-meter mobil
e
(ICOM 281H).  I get a wonderful reception and transmission signal to the west
of me but most of my work is to the east.  My house is situated directly at th
e
bottom of a hill which is blocking a lot of signals coming and going to the
east.  Any suggestions for a good antenna setup to overcome this problem.? I
have a 25' height restriction and I only have 50 watts to power any type of a
beam antenna.  There is a mountain range directly to the west of me that I
could bounce a signal off of??


Thank You
Mike
KC7BNQ



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.u.washington.edu!bank2.u.washington.edu!mbunney
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bunney)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 meter antenna problems
Date: 20 Dec 1995 15:14:49 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4b9999$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bank2.u.washington.edu
Summary: 2 meter vertical antenna is not doing the job.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0]


I am currently using a Cushcraft ARX 2B vertical connected to my 2-meter
mobile (ICOM 281H).  I get a great reception and transmission signal
to the west of me but most of my work is to the east.  My house is
situated directly at the bottom of a hill which is blocking a lot of
signals coming and going to/from the east.  Any suggestions for a good
antenna setup to overcome this problem.? I have a 25' height restriction and I

only have 50 watts to power any type of a beam antenna.  There is a
mountain range 30 miles directly to the west of me that I could bounce a
signal off of??  Does anyone have any suggestions?


Thank You
Mike
KC7BNQ



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Bunney                             Mail Stop:      Box 354844
FMS Manager                             Phone:          [phone]
Physical Plant Dept.                    Fax:            685-4053
University of Washington                E-Mail: [e-mail]






From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu
From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Homebrew Hardline?
Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:37:33 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4bc60t$[e-mail]>
References: <4asvei$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com

In article <4asvei$[e-mail]>,
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. <[e-mail]> wrote:
>More years ago than I care to remember!  When we installed a new
>tower, we would make our own hardline using 12 guage copper wire onto
>which were slipped plastic pop-bead spacers, this was placed inside of

Where do you get "plastic pop-bead spacers", whatever those are?


>either a copper or aluminum tube the height of the tower.  A connector
>was soldered to the top of the tube, a vacuum drawn on the tube
>through a little pigtail clamped and soldered.

How do you make the connector hermetic?

>
>My question is, does anyone remember the tube diameter used to do
>this, to achieve approx. 50 ohm impedance?????

Without the beads, the O.D. is 2.3 times the I.D., of course.
For 12 gauge wire (.08 inch), that comes out to .184 O.D.
I don't know what kind of tubing would have that inner diameter,
maybe 1/8 inch iron pipe size hard copper plumbing tubing?
Maybe 1/4 O.D. soft copper tubing (would have to be .033 wall)?

>
>Gary
>KG0ZP

Rick N6RK


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:19:40 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4b38ks$[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]> <4aheeb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the
>ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no
>difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is
>very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can.

If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected
together, how important is it that they actually be grounded?  I can't
imagine one or two ground rods doing much good.  Is it the electrical
mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to
ground (or both)?

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 18 Dec 1995 11:57:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 39
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b46i6$[e-mail]>
References: <4b38ks$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4b38ks$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected
>together, how important is it that they actually be grounded?  I can't
>imagine one or two ground rods doing much good.  Is it the electrical
>mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to
>ground (or both)?
>
>73,
>Jack  WB3U

Hi Jack,

When the radials are short it helps! In a large system ground rods
probably don't do a thing, but when it's all you can do....do it. The more
stuff  tied in, the better it has to be.

Harold had many radials only ten feet long, he grounded them to a chain
link fence and grounded others (and the fence) to rods. It's hard to
define how much did what. He just did everything he could. I remember him
telling me how he'd sneak out at night and drill and tap the fence posts
in his neighbors yard so he could attach radials to them.

His back yard was around ten feet deep and perhaps 60 feet long. I know he
just had room for an Inverted L. Where the wires came up to the house, he
went under the house with wire and out in the front yard. He also tied in
all the heating ducts and pipes under the house.

I lived about 10 or 15 miles from him, so we were groundwave on 160. I
could watch his signal improve each time he added more stuff to the
ground.

With no ground at all except one driven rod, my signal used to beat his
badly. After he finished his small city lot system, it was neck to neck
finishes at times. I had a 1/4 tower in the country with 120 radials! He
might have gotten a little carried away, but it sure turned out right!

73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 18 Dec 1995 22:08:06 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4b4oo6$[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]> <4aheeb$[e-mail]> <4b38ks$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected
>together, how important is it that they actually be grounded?  I can't
>imagine one or two ground rods doing much good.

Hi Jack,

It depends what you are after. As to performance on the band, the radials
are all you want. But, if it comes to lightning protection, and the LF/DC
current envolved in an lightning,  the groune rod may help.

73, Moritz DL5UH


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!ausnews.austin.ibm.com!bocanews.bocaraton.ibm.com!watnews.watson.ibm.com!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!csnews!boulder!coopnews.coop.net!frii.com!usenet
From: "Michael S. Robinson" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:38:32 -0800
Organization: Front Range Internet, Inc.
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]> <4aheeb$[e-mail]> <4b38ks$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fc-9.ppp.frii.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2a (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: WB3U <[e-mail]>

In fact, the actual earth ground has little to do with it.  So just
driving ground rods will be of little help except for lightning
protection.  The wire radials are a counterpoise to the main radiator.
Think of the radials as a known reference to push against.

73 Michael AA0UB


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 19 Dec 1995 15:48:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 48
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b78eh$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Jack,

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>Everyone's reply to my question seemed to boil down to this.  Actually,
>what I had in mind though was a radial system under a balanced antenna,
>like a dipole.  Is the radial system effective even when it's not at
>the ground potential of the transmitter, and it's not fed directly by
>the coax?

It absolutely is. A large ground system actually serves two functions. One
is to provide the "other terminal" of any end fed antenna, or to terminate
an antenna that depends on the ground or a counterpoise to provide a
direct connection for current flow. I like to imagine this as somethjing
for the antenna to "push against".

The other function is to "shield" the lossy ground below the antenna from
electromagnetic effects. We all know if an antenna is placed near a lossy
media, energy will be coupled into the lossy media. If we improve the
conductivity of the lossy media, or shield the lossy media from the
influences of the electromagnetic field, losses in the system are reduced.

No "return path" or connection to the radiator is necessary to accomplish
the second function.

That's why I cringe a bit at the use of words like displacement current
flowing into the earth and being returned to the antenna. The effects can
be the same without a return path to the antenna. A ground system still
improves efficiency. If this wasn't true, and a return path was necessary,
surroundings saltwater wouldn't improve the performance of a groundplane
or dipole! All that's necessary for this effect is for the radiated field
of the antenna to impinge on the groundplane.

And if this effect didn't exist, our quads and yagis would quit working
(and so would allmost every antenna, since the receiving antenna wouldn't
work without a return path, hi.)

73 Tom


 My dipole is about 80' from the rig and I feed it with
>balanced line.  There's no way I can actually "drive" the radials as
>a counterpoise.
>
>73,
>Jack  WB3U



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 05:18:46 GMT
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]> <4aheeb$[e-mail]> <4b38ks$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   "Michael S. Robinson" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>The wire radials are a counterpoise to the main radiator.
>Think of the radials as a known reference to push against.

Everyone's reply to my question seemed to boil down to this.  Actually,
what I had in mind though was a radial system under a balanced antenna,
like a dipole.  Is the radial system effective even when it's not at
the ground potential of the transmitter, and it's not fed directly by
the coax?  My dipole is about 80' from the rig and I feed it with
balanced line.  There's no way I can actually "drive" the radials as
a counterpoise.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 13:33:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4ammp8$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 11

WT> I received a similar response, along with a claim that I was the
WT> only one who didn't understand the meaning of the article.

Doty must have used that as a standard response.  He said the
same to me and I have heard of another amateur who also got
the same treatment.  We all were a surprise to him--infidels!
Must have been very frustrating after making thousands of
measurements and then be told there is a major flaw!  ;-)


 * RM 1.3 02583 * Not all men are fools. Some of them are bachelors...


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials so
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 05:26:28 GMT
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4agdf0$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote:

>(My lot is on a glacial moraine--meaning extremely poor
>conductivity and permitivity--my only advantage is this
>location is 300 feet above the immediately surrounding area).

Hi Forrest,

I'm using a 200' dipole on all bands.  I haven't had a chance to
evaluate it well on the higher bands, but I've used it a lot on
80 and 40 meters.

Maybe it's my imagination, but it sure seems as though my signal
reports go down when the ground freezes.  Is this a known phenomenon
or am I just experiencing changes in band conditions?  I've never
noticed this before, but then, I lived most of my life in Texas.  The
only thing I had to worry about there was the insulation dripping off
the wires in the summer.  ;)

73,
Jack  WB3U



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.orst.edu!engr.orst.edu!reuter.cse.ogi.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Alan Eifert)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AM Improvement?
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 00:15:11 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4b2bt4$[e-mail]>
References: <4ahrub$[e-mail]> <4atjjb$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-eug1-02.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

The C Crane Co. can be reached at [phone].

-Thomas-




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Alan Eifert)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: AM Improvement?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 04:56:03 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4atjjb$[e-mail]>
References: <4ahrub$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-eug1-23.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Shawn M. Winnie) wrote:

> I recall seeing a small, relatively cheap mutual inductor coil for improving
> AM reception in some specialty catalog.

You are probably thinking of the Select-A-Tenna from the Radio C Crane
Company.  They make a tunable loop that inductively couples to your AM
radio.  Last time I checked, it was priced at around $50.  You caught
me at a bad time, since I recently moved and threw a ton of literature
away beforehand.  I'll see if I can get you the number over the
weekend.

> May not help, though, I think there's a 1kW station
> on 760 kHz on a mountain right between me and the Fisher building.

Not necessarily a problem.  They may be a daytime only station, or
run very low power at night, or they may have a directional array with
the main lobe in another direction.  You might even be in their skip
zone, depending on your distance from their transmitter.

Again, I'll try to get the info to you before the weekend is over.

73 and good listening.

-Thomas-






From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:55 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 19:02:08 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service [e-mail] 703-448-4470
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4b1pfg$[e-mail]>
References: <4aqq4c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp41.erols.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [e-mail] (James Warren Price) writes:
>  Albert Liao ([e-mail]) wrote:
>  : a lot of people claim they can hear AM transmissions through
>  : their dental work or bedsrpings. how does this happen? obiviously,
>  : the metalic structure of the dental work and the springs can act as
>  : antenna's but what is demodulating the signal from the carrier?
>  : and what is used to amplify the sound?
>
>  : if you have any ideas, it would be really nice if you emailed it
>  : to me!
>
>  HOW ABOUT POSTING FOR EVERYONE TO ENJOY?  Thanks.
>
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
>  Jim Price, ARS N3QYE                             Don't blame me.
>  [e-mail]                      I voted for Emma Goldman.
>  http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jwprice/.link.html
>
>
>>>>There is reason to believe that metal fillings in teeth will under cetain
circumstances act as a detector.  The detected signal, now a varying voltage a
t audio
frequency, is transmitted to nerves in the jaw area and in turn effect the ner
ve endings in
your internal audio system.

Jim Sutton/AC4CZ
[e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.westnet.com!westnet.com!lgreco
From: [e-mail] (Luigi Greco)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:25:49 GMT
Organization: WestNet Internet Services
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4b1nbd$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: westnet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Albert,

My understanding is that the demodulation stems from the fact that the
metallic objects, bed-springs, fillings, etc.  are not "clean conductors".
That is, the surface of the metal has, for the most part, oxides which exhibit

semiconducting characteristics. In effect these are crude versions of
diodes (like the Galena crystal and cat whisker in the days of crystal
radios) which are electrically non-linear in behavior and cause
rectification, as well as demodulation of AM carriers.

Combine this with any capacitive and acoustical effects within the
environment and you got a radio!

Luigi, N2CWV




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:57 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Re: Am reception in your teeth?!?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <[e-mail]> <4b2q01$[e-mail]> <4b4ec1$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 21:53:50 GMT
Lines: 29
Sender: [e-mail]

Kristinn Andersen ([e-mail]) wrote:

: >As I understand it, The AM signal is de-moduled by a "bad connection"
: >in the old type of teeth fillings.  a rare happening....

: This is all correct and can be explained by ordinary EE-phenomena.
: Now, what beats me is how the rectified audio currents get converted
: into sound, i.e., acoustic energy, in someones mouth, bedsprings or
: what have you.  Any explanations??

There is probably some very unusual multipath condition where the signal
level at that particular point is extremely high.  Or perhaps there are
various metal structures around which just happen to be "directors" which
make for a huge signal at the "driven element" where your pickup happens
to be.  An accidental design of a high gain antenna.  If in a bedspring,
for example, if you are able to drive enough current, the normal
electromagnetic forces will cause the coil to vibrate mechanically.  Also,
because bedsprings are nonlinear, you don't even need an electrical
"diode" to demodulate the signal, the metal spring itself will do it.
There just needs to be an unusual conditions of both concentration of
signal, and perhaps electrical or mechanical resonance in the spring.

As far as tooth fillings, what happens is that some electrical current is
induced in the person's head.  The parts of the brain which affect
hearing, and the auditory nerve, can be stimulated by this current.  The
same way that when you put your hand in a light socket the pain sensors
in your hand get stimulated.  There are enough nonlinearities in the
"circuit" within the body to demodulate the signal.  Or, perhaps, the
tooth filling just mechanically vibrates the same way the bedspring does.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!newshub.csu.net!csulb.edu!carlosr
From: [e-mail] (Carlos Ramirez)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antennas For HF
Date: 18 Dec 1995 06:28:30 GMT
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b31me$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grover.cecs.csulb.edu

I am limited on roof, space, and money. I have a three elements beam that I
would be using for 10 meters. A vertical multiband would be the answer
for the other bands. I am thinking on the MHJ-1796. The reason for the
choice is because the antenna is going to be 9 feet away from the mast of
the directional, that would be about 25 feet above the roof. The antenna is
12 feet long. This antenna covers 40, 20, 15, 10, 6, and 2 meters. I
don't know how bad the closseness of the antennas is going to affect
their performance. Do you guys have in mind another antenna that would
cover more bands like 80, 17, and 12 meters. I know that the gaps are
good, but to tall. I might go on two meters, but my main goal is HF. Any
comments about the setup of the antenna would be appreciated.
                                                      Carlos



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:23:59 1995
From: [e-mail] (Rick Ruhl)
Subject: RE: Antennas For HF
Date: 20 Dec 95 01:35:59 -0800
References: <4b31me$[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 8

Carlos:

If you have room for a 10 meter beam, you have room for a short
spaced Yagifor 20.  Which is good.

As for a vertical, I got the new mfj 1798 10 band verticial and it is
wonderful.



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!blackbush.xlink.net!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Baloon Scanning
Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:15:15 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4bb8j3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>If this _is_ a workable solution to problems in hilly areas, for instance,
>is there anything you can do to optimize the antenna for better reception
>(like using solid-core wire as opposed to stranded, or using a pair and
>putting an 80 ohm resistor between them so you've got an 80-ohm antenna,
>or placing a "duck" antenna on the baloon and run the wires off that to
>the ground...)

Hi Soren,

Yes, I always fill a 100 meter length of 1/2" copper tubing with 75 Ohms
resistors and suspend it from a baloon. Works great.

Alternatively, you should think about the wavelength (frequencies) of the
signals you want to receive, and what suitable (broad band)
antenna is available.

The best way to raise it is driving your car (+ receiver + antenna)
on a hill top.

Moritz


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.global1.net!news
From: [e-mail] (bob rx)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Butternut Vert question
Date: 16 Dec 1995 01:16:33 GMT
Organization: Global One, Inc
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4at6lh$[e-mail]>
References: <4apmij$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip6.global1.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

In article <4apmij$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John C. Oppenheimer)
 says:
>
>I have an old Butternut HF 5 V2 of 1979 vintage.  It is the old model
>with a tuning coil for 80 and 40.  The manual directs you to put the
>80 and 40 coil clamps on a blue mark.  My blue marks gone.  Does
>anyone have dimensions for the coils?
>
>Is Butternut still around?  I have sent this question to them at their
>new address several weeks ago and have yet to receive a response.
>
>John
>KN5L
Why not call on the Phone -- ??? its easier and faster


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:02 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.global1.net!news
From: [e-mail] (bob rx)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: BUTTERNUT VERTICAL manual wanted...
Date: 16 Dec 1995 01:17:53 GMT
Organization: Global One, Inc
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4at6o1$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip6.global1.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tracy Hoo
ker) says:
>Call the company and get one sent via Post -- its easier --73
>Hi,
>I am looking for  a manual for a butternut vertical.  The one I have has
>several large coils at the bottom, and along the vertical aluminum radiator i
s
>a wire.  People familur with the antenna know which one, I am sure.  It does
>have the additional band kit, I believe for 40m.
>
>Please let me know if you have a manual, and I will pay for reproduction cost
s.
>
>Thanks,
>Tracy
>KA5ECS
>


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:02 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Combining TV antennas
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 03:13:52 GMT
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4at9s8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   Rick Rikoski <[e-mail]> wrote:

>It is impossible to combine signals from different directions without
>using tuned amplifiers.

Yes, I found that out the hard way (many hours of work in the attic).
I was attempting to passively combine the output from two antennas
pointed in different directions (approximately 90 degs. apart).  Each
was intended to receive one station.  The problem was, the output
from each one on the desired frequency was satisfactory, but when I
combined them, both stations turned to mush.  I eventually gave up.
In retrospect, I suspect the problem was caused by the undesired
signal pickup of each antenna mixing out of phase with the desired
signal from the other.  Better antennas would probably go a long ways
towards solving the problem, but a pair of narrowband tuned amplifiers
would undoubtedly be cheaper.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty and Sevick
Date: 17 Dec 1995 22:26:50 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 9
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4b25fa$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Ian G3SEK Says:

>I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into
>the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some
>light?

ARRL Antenna Handbook 17th Edition contains a summary of Sevick's
results.  It also summarizes Doty's results. They are in the same
ball-park.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.eznet.net!news.enterprise.net!btnet!demon!peer-news.britain.eu.net!EU.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty and the missing amperes
Date: 19 Dec 1995 16:45:10 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 65
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b7bp6$[e-mail]>
References: <4b6ljr$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Moritz,

>Yes, I have read it several times, even in engineering books. However, I
have
>not yet found and information as to *when* the picture of a loss
resistance
>in series with the  feed point resistance is adequate.
>
>For this reason the ground losses of a end fed half wave are so much
>a matter of debate:
>Is the *feed point* resistance or the *loop radiation* resistance in
series
>with the ground loss resistance? any good reference?

First of all, I agree with you 100%. If the feedline was not properly
decoupled during measurements, the data is corrupted. But if you consider
the most likely effect, that the ground systems missing current was
returned through another "earth" connection to the transmitter, than the
best small system ground was the one with **UNinsulated** wire, since it
produced the highest percentage of radiator current of the two equal sized
systems. I am positive the closer to 100% return (I hate using that word)
through the radials, the lower resistance that path was.

But your last question is a good one. It highlights the lack of a correct
universal standard for radiation resistance, and demonstrates how that
lack confuses amateurs. For example, things keep popping up in amateur
handbooks that openly state if the feedpoint impedance is increased
radiation resistance also increases. Those articles obviously use the
feedpoint radiation resistance, but that is a worthless parameter for
determining efficiency unless all the base current flows through the
feedpoint connection.

The Orr handbook does that with a 160 inverted L. It states efficiency
improves from increased radiation resistance when the L is made from
twinlead because ground current is reduced, yet that is totally false. The
net ground current remains the exactly the same, and so does loss.  The
loop radiation resistance also remains the same, only the feedpoint
terminal impedance is raised. This same error creeps into many other
texts.

The halfwave vertical has a loop radiation resistance of perhaps 100 ohms.
The ground loss resistance can only be determined by the ground loss
contribution to the resistance measured at that current loop if that is
our refernce point. The ground loss resistance value will appear smaller
at the middle of the antenna than it does when measured at the antenna's
base, because the ground loss resistance (as our instrument would see it)
is modified by the voltage and current change (transformer like action) of
the radiator as we move from the base to the middle.

Efficiency could also be determined at the base of the antenna, by
comparing the ground resistance appearing at that point with the base
radiation resistance of the antenna at that point. The resistance of the
half-wave may be several hundred ohms at that point, and the ground loss
resistance only a few ohms.

The important point is the ratio of the resistances will remain the same
when measured at either point. That's why we have to be careful not to mix
apples with oranges. When we talk about loss resistance in a system with
built in transformations of impedance, we have to reference everything to
the same measurement location. We can not allow a "current bypass" of the
measurement spot to make us think we've changed something when we haven't,
and we can't compare current loop radiation resistance to resistance at
some other point in the system.

73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article and Ian's response
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 16:17:11 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4b1cbm$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:51:14 GMT]
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:52:08 GMT]

Hello Bill -

Thank you for your reply. You know, I don't think we can agree on this one,
mainly because I really can't respond any further without drawing diagrams
and waving my hands :-)  We've hit the limitations of this text-only
medium.

An ideal world would have you, me and Tom all sitting in the same room and
using really advanced visual presentation tools like table napkins and beer
mats. We'd have the whole thing sorted out in five minutes.

Then Cecil could join us to discuss PA efficiency and output impedance.
That's a much tricker problem, of course - it might take... oh, all of ten
minutes to agree on.

Naturally, anyone else wanting to join this seasonal fantasy would be very
welcome to pull up a chair!

Of course, there's always the radio...

--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.supernet.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 23:21:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4avoqq$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 75

SS> I have been sitting here, looking at Doty's article and at two
SS> Tables of data that relate antenna current to the radial return
SS> current for two cases 1) radials arranged as a counterpoise
SS> (insulated from ground) and 2) radials arranged as a ground screen
SS> (radials grounded in many places). Here are the results:

             Case 1                   Case 2
       nr radials  %return       nr radials %return
          12         66              12          87
          20         90              20          90
          48        100              48          99

SS> There's something wrong here Tom.  With many radials he is getting
SS> 100% of return current in the radials.  With few radials the thing
SS> that I mentioned previously is happening. Return current is
SS> bypassing the radials and returning to the xmtr by different paths
SS> that bypass the radials.  I don't see anything here that tells where
SS> the xmtr is located or what the transmission line looks like.

SS> My final conclusion is that the author did not account for all the
SS> current paths that ultimately lead back to the xmtr.  But with 48
SS> radials almost all of it returns through the radials.  Somehow the
SS> discussion of this subject has gotten out of whack and you may wish
SS> to read the entire article. If you like I will Fax a copy to you if
SS> you have a Fax.  Otherwise snail mail. Send a fone number or an
SS> address if you want a copy.

Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this
article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low
number of radials and become equal with a higher number of
radials is very simple.  Doty's RF generator was not isolated
from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground
or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps
both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his
experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his
RF generator was located away from the antenna.

This lack of isolation created another path through the ground
for return current.  This path necessarily would be a poor
one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of
radials.  As the radials were increased, the radials began
to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials
completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it
amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one
of high resistance.  When the low resistance path becomes
low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path.

Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48
radials established equality of a ground system of 120
radials is completely erroneous.  In his particular setup
it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the
high resistance of his extraneous ground connection.
I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents,
now equal, would have continued to increase.

He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical
which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution
of his counterpoise.

There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal
currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground
loss.  Others have mentioned phase differences.  Both of
these effects were present, but the fact remains that
Kirchoff's Law continued to hold.  If we had access to an
isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at
the two terminals of the generator and that they would
necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase.

Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present
or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator
current, whose outgoing and return currents would always
be equal.  Kirchoff's Law is not repealed.


 * RM 1.3 02583 * I liked Occam's razor so much I bought the company.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sparky.insinc.net!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once again
Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:34:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 77
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bbraf$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Forrest,

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) writes:

>Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this
>article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low
>number of radials and become equal with a higher number of
>radials is very simple.  Doty's RF generator was not isolated
>from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground
>or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps
>both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his
>experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his
>RF generator was located away from the antenna.
>
>This lack of isolation created another path through the ground
>for return current.  This path necessarily would be a poor
>one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of
>radials.  As the radials were increased, the radials began
>to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials
>completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it
>amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one
>of high resistance.  When the low resistance path becomes
>low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path.
>
>Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48
>radials established equality of a ground system of 120
>radials is completely erroneous.  In his particular setup
>it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the
>high resistance of his extraneous ground connection.
>I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents,
>now equal, would have continued to increase.
>
>He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical
>which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution
>of his counterpoise.
>
>There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal
>currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground
>loss.  Others have mentioned phase differences.  Both of
>these effects were present, but the fact remains that
>Kirchoff's Law continued to hold.  If we had access to an
>isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at
>the two terminals of the generator and that they would
>necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase.
>
>Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present
>or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator
>current, whose outgoing and return currents would always
>be equal.  Kirchoff's Law is not repealed.
>

That is all exactly correct Forrest, and it is the conclusion of many
others. As a matter of fact, nearly all the people I have talked to that
have a lot of practical  antenna experience coupled with educational
background agree with you. I received several E-mails from others that
share that basic opinion. They also wrote and were ignored. Several of us
were told we were the only ones complaining, hi. Your response is the ONLY
logical explaination of the current's that were measured.

The entire issue is very perplexing to me. The conclusions were so very
obviously wrong, and the very valid questions raised by many of us were
ignored. Doty may be a "nice guy". But that doesn't make his conclusions
correct, no more than if he was not "nice" would make him wrong. I can
find no logical technical arguement that supports his conclusions, or any
reason to drag personal feelings into a technical debate. The issues are
measurements and conclusions, not popularity or trust.

On that basis, if it were Mary Tyler Moore, Mr. Rogers, or sweet little
Grover from Sesame Street arguing Doty's point .....they would be
incorrect. If it were Saddam Hussain, Bill Clinton or Newt Gingich arguing
against his point.......they would be correct.

Sorry. That's the way it is in technical discussions.

73,
Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 15:56:34 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4b1dcb$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:51:08 GMT]
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:52:05 GMT]

In article: <4b1dcb$[e-mail]>  [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:

:
: >....maximum diameter circle is, and putting in whatever number it takes
: >to
: >achieve the .02wl spacing at the tips would be the "best" you could do?
:
: I agree if we understand "best" is subject to the trade-off of cost and
: return, hi. It is a lot more than a slob would consider perfect, and less
: than a fellow who places socks neatly in order in the clothes hamper
: would be happy with. ;-)

The .02wl spacing only marks the *beginning* of diminishing returns. In
other words, that's where the real work starts. I'm just trying to figure
out if the spacing has any physical significance.

My trouble is, I *hate* laying radials! No matter how carefully I polish my
halo and iron my special radial-laying socks before starting, a few hours
out there will always turn me into a slob who's ready to quit at the first
excuse.

Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for Short
Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short verticals, he
also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and systematically covers
the effects of the following on radiation efficiency:

 * radial length
 * number of radials
 * terminating earth spikes.

Unlike so much amateur experimental work, Sevick's measurements are
systematic, well explained and all seem to make sense.

This really isn't my specialist area, but Sevick's article seems to have
answered many of the regular 'newbie' questions about less-than-ideal
radial systems on the ground. If you want to be a slob about radials, the
article gives numbers from which you can estimate the price you're paying.

I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into
the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some
light on that?



--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - anywhere.



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!jayk
From: [e-mail] (Jay Kesterson K0GU)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: 18 Dec 1995 14:55:22 GMT
Organization: Morris is a cat, Morse is a code
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4b3vcq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4b1dcb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigdog.fc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Ian G3SEK ([e-mail]) wrote:

: This really isn't my specialist area, but Sevick's article seems to have
: answered many of the regular 'newbie' questions about less-than-ideal
: radial systems on the ground. If you want to be a slob about radials, the
: article gives numbers from which you can estimate the price you're paying.

: I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into
: the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some
: light on that?
: --
: 73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'

I don't have the latest version of the ARRL Antenna Book but the version
before did have this info. There is a section that states most of the data
came from Sevick's articles. It has the chart that shows the number of
radials for various lengths from .1 to .4 wl.

73, Jay  K0GU                  [e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 00:03:22 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 84
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4amuqo$[e-mail]> <4aplkd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 0:04:13 GMT]
X-SMTP-Posting-Host: post.demon.co.uk [Sat, 16 Dec 95 0:06:05 GMT]

In article: <4aplkd$[e-mail]>  [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
writes:

: I think this was a CQ article, not QST.

You're both right - he published it twice.

: In article <4amuqo$[e-mail]>,
: [e-mail] writes:
:
: >I have two questions about the Doty article:
: >
: >1) Is it really true that the radial return current *must*
: >   equal the current in the vertical rod? Isn't some of the
: >   return current diverted from the radials to the earth
: >   underneath by capacitive coupling, as Doty claims?  Isn't
: >   there a potential difference between radials and the
: >   earth that would cause displacement currents to flow
: >   to ground and not through the measuring instrument?
:
: Yes, the current must be equal.

I'm with Tom on this: Kirchhoff's law has to apply at the feedpoint.
That means that the *vector* sum of currents at the feedpoint must be zero.
But if you measure the scalar currents using a clamp-on meter, in the
general case you will *not* find a balance between the currents in the
radials and in the vertical.

Here's an example of a four-radial "GP" modeled in free space. The vertical
vertical and two of the radials ar 0.25wl (which is not quite the resonant
length) and the other two radials are 0.125wl and 0.375wl. At the feedpoint
the currents are as follows.

                    Mag         Phase
Vertical           41.5           7.1
R1                 20.4        -172.7
R2                  1.68       -160.4
R3                 20.4        -172.7
R4                  1.29         34.3

The vector currents sum accurately to zero - just as they should - but the
magnitudes are out by 2.3. OK, that was a contrived example, but it does
show that scalar current measurements will generally not balance (unless
the phases in the driven element and all the radials are the same).

Doty's radial system involved all kinds of different lengths, so it seems
to me that his measurements of scalar currents are pretty much impossible
to interpret.

It's confusing to talk about "displacement current" flowing between the
driven element and the radials. There is electromagnetic induction between
them, but no flow of current in any meaningful sense: no electrons flow
through the volume between the driven element and the radials. You can't
expect a mixture of genuine currents (electron flow in/on a conductor) and
so-called "displacement currents" to obey Kirchhoff's law.


Changing the subject, to the question of "How many radials?", I'd value
your comments on a re-working of Sevick's data (QST April 1978) on the
efficiency of a resonant quarter-wave vertical as a function of the number
and length of radials. He found that the longer the radials are, the more
of them you need in order to reach the point of diminishing returns.

More specifically, he found (Fig. 7) that for 1/16wl radials there isn't
much more to be gained beyond 20 radials; for 1/8wl the efficiency curve
starts to level out at about 30 radials, and for 1/4 wl it's leveling out
somewhere beyond 60. It works out that in each case the distance between
the ends of the radials is about 0.02-0.025wl.

This suggests that if the radials wires are any farther apart, the EM field
can "leak" between them, and that portion of the return current then has to
flow through the lossy earth. That seems to explain why, as the radials get
longer, you need more of them in order to maintain the minimum necessary
spacing of say 0.02wl. Would this be a useful rule of thumb when designing
radial systems, do you think?


--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - anywhere.



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: 16 Dec 1995 00:45:48 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 68
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4atmec$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Bill,
Here is my explaination of why Doty's strange readings took place. I agree
with you, what struck me is the results actually contradict his claims!
In article <4as2df$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>I have been sitting here, looking at Doty's article and at two Tables
>of data that relate antenna current to the radial return current for two
>cases 1) radials arranged as a counterpoise (insulated from ground)
>and 2) radials arranged as a ground screen (radials grounded in many
>places). Here are the results:
>               Case 1                       Case 2
>           nr radials  %return       nr radials   %return
>              12         66              12          87
>              20         90              20          90
>              48        100              48          99
>There's something wrong here Tom.  With many radials he is getting
>100% of return current in the radials.  With few radials the thing
>that I mentioned previously is happening. Return current is bypassing
>the radials and returning to the xmtr by different paths that
>bypass the radials.  I don't see anything here that tells where the
>xmtr is located or what the transmission line looks like.

Agreed. That was my objection in a letter to CQ. The ground connection at
the vertical's base has a "path to ground" through the feeder unless a
choke balun was in line. The net base feed current at the antenna's ground
terminal divides between the two parallel "grounds" (the radial system and
the feed cable's unknown ground).

As an additional comment: When Chrisman tested an elevated ground system,
field strength improved without a choke in the feedline, and decreased
when a choke was installed. The choke's only function is to prevent the
feeder and transmitter system from being part of the vertcal's ground. The
supposition is four elevated radials form an ideal ground, equal to 120
radials. If the supposition is true, why is FS increased over one dB when
the choke is removed and earth connections become part of the system? That
either indicates efficiency goes over 100% without a choke, or elevated
radials are not 100% efficient because the poor ground to the transmitter
helps the system!!

Common sense tells us if radial effectiveness improves, more current
shifts into the radial system and less flows through the feedline ground
connection. The more current
accounted for in the radials, the better the ground must be! Current shift
into the radials can occur only because the parallel resistance of the
radials was reduced, while the ground back through the feeder to the
exciter remained constant. These tests actually prove radial system
resistance **DECREASES** as radials are added, and that additional
parallel grounds are *BETTER*, not worse! That makes sense to me, when I
want low ground resistance, I parallel as many independent ground
connections as I can!

What do you do to lower the resistance of a ground? Parallel independent
ground connections, or remove them? I would bet the farm you parallel
grounds, or try to get as much surface area in the ground connection as
possible! If you look again at the VLF antennas you mentioned, you will
see that the efficiency of those arrays improves with star type grounding
systems that connect directly to the earth.

This is a prime example why magazines should allow groups of people from
different backgrounds to review any article that claims to advance
science.

>My final conclusion is that the author did not
>account for all the current paths that ultimately lead back to the
>xmtr.  But with 48 radials almost all of it returns through the
>radials.

My conclusion also. 73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Terry Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Date: 20 Dec 1995 13:38:43 -0800
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4b9vp3$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4b1dcb$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes
:
>:
>
>Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for Short
>Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short verticals, he
>also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and systematically covers
>the effects of the following on radiation efficiency:
>
> * radial length
> * number of radials
> * terminating earth spikes.
>

Excellent article and should be a must for anyone considering putting up
a vertical antenna. This is the article I mentioned in my earlier post
concerning 1/8 and 1/4 wavelength radials and their effects.

>
>I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into
>the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some
>light on that?
>
A very good question. I can think of atleast a few articles I would
have put in the ARRL Antenna Handbook. And ones I would have left out.
Ever try to build a quad for a particular frequency and find all the
dementions in the handbook are either too short or too long? Try to
find something for 435 Mhz satellite sometime. Even in the Satellite
Handbook you will find they just don't give much. Basic practical theory
articles are sadly lacking when you need to calculate measurements
and/or want to know what effect something(s) will have. Not to mention
how something works.

Glad G3SEK found that article and mentioned it. Now to see if I still
have the magazine.

Terry
KI7M



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty's article and the displacement current
Date: 17 Dec 1995 23:07:47 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4b27s3$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Ian G3SEK says:

>Hello Bill -

>Thank you for your reply. You know, I don't think we can agree on this one,
>mainly because I really can't respond any further without drawing -)  We've
>hit the limitations of this text-only
>medium.

The concept of displacement current is a difficult idea to grasp.  It
has to do with energy transfer through empty space.  It relates to the
impedance of free space, 377 Ohms.  It relates to the the Poynting
vector of power flow in free space.  Maxwell used the concept to
explain electromagnetic waves and the speed of light.  It is not a flow
of electrons but it does account for the H field in empty space. An
ordinary capacitor does not conduct electrons, but it does transmit energy.
The displacement current is used to explain this transfer.  I think
my understanding of these basic principles is quite adequate. My reference
material (here in front of me) and my studies over the years are quite
sufficient for this task. Let's leave it at that.

Also, I do think Doty is getting a bum rap in this discussion that he
does not deserve. It is clear to me that none of us has really got a
good handle on all of the subtleties involved in this ground plane
problem. It is also very clear to me that there is a relationship
between the percentage of radial return current, the efficiency and
the feedpoint impedance.

There have been some personal comments about Doty and I
for one could not care less about that. I am only interested in
whatever technology may be involved. Leave personalities out of it.

I have enjoyed this discussion and I have enjoyed making your
acquaintance, Ian G3SEK. I hope we meet again. 73, Bill Sabin W0IYH.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current
Date: 18 Dec 1995 12:54:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 58
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b49sh$[e-mail]>
References: <4b40qq$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4b40qq$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] () writes:

>
>Please explain this. The outer of the feed line is connected to the
radials,
>and if all is set up correctly (chokes) radial return current must be
100%
>
>How is it possible to measure ground loss directly
>and eventually the efficiency?
>
>73, Moritz

That is correct Moritz. That is also my objection. It is impossible to
state with certainty how efficiency changes with the type of measurements
that were made.

For example, assume a second fixed resistance ground system is at work in
parallel with the ground system being tested. If the ground system under
test is made less effective, more current will shift to the second fixed
resistance ground. The percentage of current in the ground system under
test will be reduced compared to net radiator base current.

Since that is the only explaination for the current at the base not
equaling the current at the common point of the radials, I assume that
indicates the radial system was poorer as the percentage of current in it
decreased.

Do you agree with that? If so, insulated radials are poorer than bare
radials! And small radial systems are poorer than large systems.

Secondly, the issue of displacement current keeps popping up. The current
measured in the radials is real current, not displacement current. We have
no idea how much of it is conducted current and how much is "displacement
current. So what good does measuring current out in the radial do?

To know the actual "displacement current" around the antenna, we need to
know the electric field level and direction at all points surrounding the
antenna.

If we were going to go through all that bother, it would make more sense
to go out several wavelengths and just measure the field strength. That
would give us a direct comparison of efficiency as the ground system was
changed. And it's much easier than doing a complicated vector analysis of
near field levels and losses in the immediate vicinity of the antenna. The
near field analysis would require measurements that are almost impossible
to make, and a lot of asumptions of how those fields interact with a lossy
media like earth.

That's what NEC is for, and even that complicated program has a difficult
time with the interaction between fields and real earth.

Calling current in the conductors of a radial "displacement current" is
confusing the whole issue. Once it's in the conductor (even earth), it's
just plain old current.

73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current
Date: 20 Dec 1995 11:54:05 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4b8tgt$[e-mail]>
References: <4b27s3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>Also, Kirchhoff's law does not apply to sheet currents flowing within the
>earth itself, because we cannot define finite conductor boundaries or
>junction nodes.

Hi Ian,

I am quite sure, that a little more care is needed here with the wording.
Given a countinuous conductive (lossy) medium, Kirchhoff's law simply
should be replaced by the continuity equation:

        div (current density) = d (charge) /d (time)

However, I think that Doty's approach is quite useless for another reason:
As lont as you add / remove radials in a existing system, the current on the
coax shield (that's what he measures after all) may well be an indication of
the ground efficiency. If you however managed to change ground conductivity
under an antenna with a poor radial system (just dump some salt in
your garden at night, no problem ;-), I doubt very much, that there will be
a clear relationship between "radial current loss" and antenna efficiency.

73, Moritz DL5UH



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!multiverse!castle.nando.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!fu-berlin.de!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current
Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:27:56 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4b707c$[e-mail]>
References: <4b40qq$[e-mail]> <4b49sh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

>For example, assume a second fixed resistance ground system is at work in
>parallel with the ground system being tested. If the ground system under
>test is made less effective, more current will shift to the second fixed
>resistance ground. The percentage of current in the ground system under
>test will be reduced compared to net radiator base current.
>
>Since that is the only explaination for the current at the base not
>equaling the current at the common point of the radials, I assume that
>indicates the radial system was poorer as the percentage of current in it
>decreased.

Sure.

If there is only the radials connected to the outer of the feed line,
the current on the radials + the current on the outer of the feed line
must equal the current on the radiating element. So he took the current on
the feed line surface as a measure for efficiency?

>If so, insulated radials are poorer than bare
>radials!

But I should guess, only if the capacitance of the insulation is
low enough, so that 1/omega x C is significant compared to the ground
resistance.

>Secondly, the issue of displacement current keeps popping up. The current
>measured in the radials is real current, not displacement current.

Well, I would prefer to call the interaction of an antenna with its
surrounding " radiation" ;-)

73, Moritz DL5UH





From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty's article and the displacement current
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 08:29:59 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4b27s3$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4b8tgt$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk

In article: <4b8tgt$[e-mail]>
[e-mail] () writes:
:
: >Also, Kirchhoff's law does not apply to sheet currents flowing within
the
: >earth itself, because we cannot define finite conductor boundaries or
: >junction nodes.
:
: Hi Ian,
:
: I am quite sure, that a little more care is needed here with the wording.
: Given a countinuous conductive (lossy) medium, Kirchhoff's law simply
: should be replaced by the continuity equation:
:
:       div (current density) = d (charge) /d (time)
:

Yes, obviously there is a continuity equation since there is no net gain or
loss of charge carriers (electrons) in the entire system.


: However, I think that Doty's approach is quite useless for another
: reason: As long as you add / remove radials in a existing system, the
: current on the coax shield (that's what he measures after all) may well
: be an indication of the ground efficiency.

I am not sure that Doty did measure the current on the coax shield.
We have to be very careful not to put words into somebody else's mouth -
neither Doty's nor mine  :-)

In the most open-minded and non-judgemental way possible, I am not sure
exactly which currents Doty *did* measure at the feedpoint.

Currents on the coax shield are not an indication of the ground
inefficiency. By installing a feedline choke you can reduce these currents
to any arbitrary level without in any way changing the efficiency of the
ground beneath the antenna.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - anywhere.



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!micro.internexus.net!arther.castle.net!news.netrail.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!munnari.OZ.AU!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Lawrence Stoskopf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty, antenna currents, a comment
Date: 17 Dec 95 17:49:56 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Have been following the Doty thread with interest as was about to put up a
similar elevated radial system.  The new plan is to use all of the wire I've
gathered over the years.

Doty made a lot of measurements, but my real hero is as follows:

When Sevik started publishing his extension and re-measurement of Brown's
data, I spent some lengthy time in the Kansas State University library
reading every article in the 1930s era Proc of the IRE on the subject and
following up on as many references as the interlibrary loan would get me.
Some of the copies are buried in my archives somewhere.

My hero is the guy in a picture of an approximately 200 ft WOODEN tower
hanging from a bosun's chair on a rope on a pulley from the top, holding a
current probe and measuring the distribution of current along the full
length of the antenna (powered)!

I'll stick to W7EL's program and you guys can verify the data.

Lawrence E. Stoskopf
N0UU



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!news.inc.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ios.com!news
From: Andrew Dodd <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Dual-band antennas
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:12:21 -0800
Organization: Internet Online Services
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-26.ts-2.hp.idt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

Hello,
        I have the ARRL Antenna book, but it doesn't seem to have any
information on multiband verticals like those advertised in many catalogs.
(You know, the 2M/70CM dual-banders that don't have a visible trap anywhere)
 Or the rubber ducks that come with practically every twinband HT sold?
        How are these designed?  Anyone recommend any good books?

        Also, does anyone know of a good price for an SWR meter that will
work on 2M/440?  All of the ones I've seen look a little too expensive.  Or
information on making one?

Andrew Dodd
N2YPH


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Email Nondelivery Notice -- FAILED MESSAGE
Date: 19 Dec 95 19:22:01 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 405
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Confirming-MTS-Message-ID: </C=US/AD=ATTMAIL;internet3531921540>
Not-Delivered-To: mhs!tva!c5t0c.office/G=gerald/S=nicely/RECIPNUM=1/MTA-BASIC@
attmail.com due to code 06 "Expired Maximum Time";
        arrived Tue Dec 19 19:22:01 -0000 1995;

Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #h#613
P2-Originator: internet!UCSD.EDU!ham-ant (Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup)
To: [e-mail]
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii


Ham-Ant Digest              Tue, 19 Dec 95       Volume 95 : Issue  613

Today's Topics:
                    Advice on inverted-L antennas
                           AM Improvement?
             Doty's article and the displacement current
                          Dual-band antennas
             Fix your MFJ Mod. 986 Tuner before it breaks
                         LEARNING CW (3 msgs)
                Question about Sommer vertical antenna
                     Stuff to build YAGI's with.
                        The Best Wire Antenna
       your LISTSERV request "help greenhorn with mfj+longwire"

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Ham-Ant Digest are available
(by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-ant".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Dec 95 20:19:40 GMT
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Subject: Advice on inverted-L antennas

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the
>ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no
>difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is
>very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can.

If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected
together, how important is it that they actually be grounded?  I can't
imagine one or two ground rods doing much good.  Is it the electrical
mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to
ground (or both)?

73,
Jack  WB3U

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 00:15:11 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Alan Eifert)
Subject: AM Improvement?

The C Crane Co. can be reached at [phone].

-Thomas-

------------------------------

Date: 18 Dec 1995 12:54:25 -0500
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Subject: Doty's article and the displacement current

In article <4b40qq$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] () writes:

>
>Please explain this. The outer of the feed line is connected to the
radials,
>and if all is set up correctly (chokes) radial return current must be
100%
>
>How is it possible to measure ground loss directly
>and eventually the efficiency?
>
>73, Moritz

That is correct Moritz. That is also my objection. It is impossible to
state with certainty how efficiency changes with the type of measurements
that were made.

For example, assume a second fixed resistance ground system is at work in
parallel with the ground system being tested. If the ground system under
test is made less effective, more current will shift to the second fixed
resistance ground. The percentage of current in the ground system under
test will be reduced compared to net radiator base current.

Since that is the only explaination for the current at the base not
equaling the current at the common point of the radials, I assume that
indicates the radial system was poorer as the percentage of current in it
decreased.

Do you agree with that? If so, insulated radials are poorer than bare
radials! And small radial systems are poorer than large systems.

Secondly, the issue of displacement current keeps popping up. The current
measured in the radials is real current, not displacement current. We have
no idea how much of it is conducted current and how much is "displacement
current. So what good does measuring current out in the radial do?

To know the actual "displacement current" around the antenna, we need to
know the electric field level and direction at all points surrounding the
antenna.

If we were going to go through all that bother, it would make more sense
to go out several wavelengths and just measure the field strength. That
would give us a direct comparison of efficiency as the ground system was
changed. And it's much easier than doing a complicated vector analysis of
near field levels and losses in the immediate vicinity of the antenna. The
near field analysis would require measurements that are almost impossible
to make, and a lot of asumptions of how those fields interact with a lossy
media like earth.

That's what NEC is for, and even that complicated program has a difficult
time with the interaction between fields and real earth.

Calling current in the conductors of a radial "displacement current" is
confusing the whole issue. Once it's in the conductor (even earth), it's
just plain old current.

73 Tom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:12:21 -0800
From: Andrew Dodd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dual-band antennas

Hello,
        I have the ARRL Antenna book, but it doesn't seem to have any
information on multiband verticals like those advertised in many catalogs.
(You know, the 2M/70CM dual-banders that don't have a visible trap anywhere)
 Or the rubber ducks that come with practically every twinband HT sold?
        How are these designed?  Anyone recommend any good books?

        Also, does anyone know of a good price for an SWR meter that will
work on 2M/440?  All of the ones I've seen look a little too expensive.  Or
information on making one?

Andrew Dodd
N2YPH

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:31:34 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS)
Subject: Fix your MFJ Mod. 986 Tuner before it breaks

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Richard Freeman) wrote:

> To all hams:
>
> If you have a MFJ tuner Mod. 986,  the shaft in the roller inductor
> may break at any time.  The problem is the hole in the front panel is
> slightly higher than it should be so the shaft is bent all the time.
> To correct this 4 washers need to be put under the roller inductor to
> raise it to match the front panel hole.  I drilled holes in four
> pennies and used them.  They seemed to be just the right size.  Doing
> this will save you the $55+ fee that MFJ charges for a new roller
> inductor when the shaft breaks.
>
> Yes, MFJ is aware of this design flaw.
>
> Post any questions.
>
> Richard, KB6CEA

Richard, thanks for the info.  I will check mine.

--
Mike, KN6IS

------------------------------

Date: 18 Dec 1995 15:06:09 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Mike McLendon)
Subject: LEARNING CW

Gary,

Deja vu! I really related to your experience with learning morse. I
got my no code tech license in the fall of 1993 and decided that I
wanted to upgrade. I was 41 yrs old and had always been interested
in amateur radio but never had the elmer to help me with getting
started.

The no-code path was the trigger that got me licensed in 93 as I
have a technical background; but no morse... well I bought the tapes
and began the lessons. I thought I was stupid - the more I worked
the worse I got as far as where I thought I was in the scheme of
things (a lot like you related).

Here is what then happened: I worked out with the tapes at 5 wpm for
20 minutes in the car on the way to work and 20 minutes on the
commute home. After about 4-5 weeks, I had abused my brain to the
point that I actually could recognize most of the characters so I
went to an exam session to try out my new skill - and flunked the
exam.

Well that really hacked me off - a slap in the face! Old farts can't
learn a new 'language' they say. Need more motivation to learn
morse? Listen to several bad 75M phone conversations and you will
realize that there are other modes (CW and digital) and phone bands
where people are much more congenial. You are going to need the
higher classes of licenses to work the better bands.

I started to listen to the W1AW code transmissions at slow speeds on
the air and: hey I was getting most of the stuff! So I started to
also listen to the novice bands on the air and: hey I was getting a
lot of the better 'fists'! I went back to the tapes after a few
nights of listening to code on the radio and IT WAS MUCH EASIER!
Really began a plan to alternate tapes and on the air code listening
and also tried to copy in my head. This made it actually fun. I also
studied the general class technical material for a break in the
routine.

So I took another shot at the exam at 5 wpm and passed (also passed
the general written exam)! What a rush... doing something that
really challenged me and being successful was a great feeling. Took
me 3 months from start to finish at 5 wpm.

Worked a lot of people in Ohio on the novice bands (that is where my
low hanging dipole launched my signals). I kept thinking about that
general written exam I had passed earlier and decided that I wanted the
rest of the tests to be over with so I went back to the tapes to take
me to 15 wpm (so I would pass the 13). Again I alternated tapes with on
air practice from W1AW and live QSOs. And I also studied the advanced
and extra written material.

When I went to take my 13 wpm test, I auditioned the morse test at 20
wpm just to listen and passed! At 20!- left the morse exam room and
proceeded to take and pass the advanced and extra exams at one sitting!
I entered the exam session as a no code tech and left as an extra class
in 9 months! I was really happy with that day's work. It took many
beers that night to celebrate.

Summary: just keep at it and try to make learning code something that
you WANT to do. It sure isn't easy to learn for a lot of people myself
especially. But you will whip it... By the way I seem to have
stabilized at about 15-18 wpm and really enjoy the occasional cw
ragchew with a good operator.

Cheers Gary and best regards - cul 73 - Mike - KE4END

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:43:08 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS)
Subject: LEARNING CW

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (GARY RAWSON) wrote:

> Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
> get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
> October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest
> with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code
> tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it
> to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
> characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
> the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
> start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
> more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
> like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
> do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
> the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first
> started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working
> HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when
> my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air
> are listening it to this year.
>
> 73's
> Gary
> N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA
> [e-mail]
>
> ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
> --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

Gary, there are more ways to do this than you care to know.  Each of us
learns differently.  I had the same problem so I stopped with my practice
when I started missing more characters.  Sometimes in 5 minutes and
sometimes in 20.  Some days are worce than others.  You have to custimize
it to your own need and capability.  The radio shack tapes are ok, but I
found that geting on the air really helped me.  Your not alone.  Good
luck!!
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>        The MindLess One's BBS [phone] Weirton, WV
>
>         RIME #5266, FIDO 1:129/161, USENET mindless.org
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------

--
Mike, KN6IS

------------------------------

Date: 18 Dec 1995 03:10:52 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: LEARNING CW

Gary:
My Elmer, at least my first one, was my Uncle Charlie who qualified as a
high speed code operator in WWII. He taught me more than just a few morse
characters. The Army had done extensive study of *how* people learn c.w.
He explained to me that he, like most of the men in his outfit, hit
three plateaus at about 5, 13 and 20 WPM. He said it was hard to learn code
at first but, of course, the army way is to do it until it bleeds or hurts.
Practice, practice, practice seems to be the three best ways to do it.
I took a college class in ham radio and practiced every day for at least about
20-30 minutes. I mean, after all, it was homework! In one semester I got to
13 WPM. Its taken me another 20 years to finally start working on my speed aga
in
and get to 20 wpm (where I have plateaued)
Good luck on you quest! Also on the air practice is maybe the best and most
fun.
73 de WB0FDJ

------------------------------

Date: 18 Dec 1995 00:36:27 GMT
From: Danny Goodman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Question about Sommer vertical antenna

[e-mail] (MARKTAINT) wrote:
>I'm interested in comments that anyone has regarding the Sommer HF
>Skydisk. It looks interesting and the price is comparable to other vert.
>antennas.
>Please e-mail or post responses about this antenna.
>
>Thanks very much.
>
>Mark Taintor    N0YRW
>
>[e-mail]

The last time I called them for a spec sheet, it was to go out the following w
eek.  That was sometime in early November.

Danny AE9F/6
http://www.dannyg.com

------------------------------

Date: 19 Dec 95 00:08:33 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Rick Ruhl)
Subject: Stuff to build YAGI's with.

Fellow hams:

Can anyone give me advice on where to find the following parts.  I'm
trying to build a 20 meter short yagi from the 1978 handbook, and no
one seems to know what I'm talking about or where I can get it.

1. 1-1/8 in dia Plexiglas rod (for winding the coils on) sources or
1995-96 options are appreciated.

2. 140 pf Variable Capacitor or a 1995-6 equvilant.

Once I build this beam, I hope to publish an article on it, in which
other hams with limited space can build this also.

Ricker

------------------------------

Date: 18 Dec 1995 22:13:33 -0500
From: [e-mail] (MARKTAINT)
Subject: The Best Wire Antenna

I'd second what WB9IQI said about the half-square. I made one for 15M last
winter and hung it so the tips were only a few feet off the ground.
Couldn't get it any higher than that at the time. I made a contact with a
P29 station who told me I had the biggest signal coming into Papua New
Guinea that day. (I was using a 500 watt linear at the time.) Antennas
West sells these, or you can easily build one yourself. They also sell a
booklet that tells about the theory and how to make them yourself.

------------------------------

Date: 19 Dec 95 06:11:52 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Mailing List Processor)
Subject: your LISTSERV request "help greenhorn with mfj+longwire"

The mailing list "greenhorn" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.

------------------------------

End of Ham-Ant Digest V95 #613
******************************


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!online!wb3ffv!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: Jim/AC4CZ
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Extremely narrow-band antennas?
Date: 19 Dec 1995 02:54:23 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service [e-mail] 703-448-4470
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4b59gv$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.252.17.252
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [e-mail] (J. L. Blanton) writes:
>  In article <hbaker-0112951039030001@10.0.2.15>, [e-mail] (Henry
>  Baker) wrote:
>
>  > How would I go about building a very narrow-band antenna, say picking out
>  > only 10 KHz in a 900 MHz band?
>
>  Antennas usually aren't intentionally designed to be narrowband, but an
>  electrically short antenna ends up that way when its reactance is matched
>  to the transmission line's impedance.  The shorter the antenna (i.e. the
>  more inductive loading required) the narrower the bandwidth.
>  Unfortunately, as the radiator is shortened the efficiency goes down,
>  reducing the antenna's effectiveness on the desired signals.  To reject
>  interference while retaining a reasonable level of the desired signal
>  you're probably better off using a normal antenna followed by a passive
>  low-loss filter.  Use a bandpass filter to pass the desired signal or a
>  band reject filter to reject a specific interfering signal at a known
>  frequency.
>
>  73,
>
>  Lee, WA8YBT/6
>  Temecula, CA
>
>>>>
There is no way I know of to build an antenna that has a 10Khz response while
operating
at 900 Mhz. You did not say what the skirts of the band pass would be so it is
 difficult to
see just what you are looking for.  I have no idea why you would wish to do so
mething
like this unless it is to eliminate an adjacent signal.  Use a band pass or ba
nd reject
filter to eliminate the problem.

73/Jim/AC4CZ


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!nott!nrcnet0.nrc.ca!tesla.iar.nrc.ca!jordan
From: [e-mail] (Jim Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Extremely narrow-band antennas?
Date: 19 Dec 1995 14:31:25 GMT
Organization: National Research Council
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4b6ibt$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4b59gv$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: tesla.iar.nrc.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Have a look at microstrip antennas. Bandwidth is related to thickness.
I'm not sure if it is practical to attain such a narrow bandwidth but
it may be worth a look.

Jim



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!zombie.ncsc.mil!cs.umd.edu!newsfeed.gsfc.nasa.gov!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Ron Parise)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Date: 20 Dec 1995 16:31:26 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center -- Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4b9dou$[e-mail]>
References: <4b6vqh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: astrolap.gsfc.nasa.gov
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.5

In article <4b6vqh$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (GBohner) says:
>
>Any comments on the above verticals?
>The Gap is $100 cheaper and also covers 80M, so why is $100 cheaper.  I
>have had an R7 which worked good until it got hit by lightening.  How is
>the quality of the Gap Titan vs the Cushcraft?  Anybody ever use the
>Titan?  Is the VSWR good?  How does it get out on all bands including 80?

I too would like to hear about experiences with the GAP Titan. Materials?
Ease of assembly? Structural strength? Performance?

Ron Parise, wa4sir


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:35 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!rocksanne!news
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 38
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Xerox
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage
References: <4b6vqh$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 13:48:03 GMT


In Article<4b6vqh$[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
write:

>
> Any comments on <snip> Gap Titan vs the Cushcraft?  Anybody
ever use the
> Titan?  Is the VSWR good?  How does it get out on all bands
including 80?

I have a Titan.  Some comments/warnings:

1.  About the worst assembly instructions I have come across.
2.  They advertise outstanding SWR's, but I bet they only apply
    if you have the antenna mounted in the center of a big
    field!  Mine is next to the garage, which may be inter-
    fering with the performance.
3.  At first the "no radials" sounds great.  But, keep in mind
    that you have to mount the antenna in such manner to insure
    that the 80" counterpoise rods clear buildings, etc.
    Personally, I wish I would have considered one of the other
    GAP's: the one that uses the 3 25ft counterpoise wires.
3.  GAP's may be cheaper than R7's because they don't use any
    coils.  But, Cushcraft appears to have a larger advertising
    budget to support!  And, the reason may simply be: charge
    what the customer will pay!
4.  Theoretical discussions abound re: GAP's claims of why it
    is a better design than other vertical designs.  Some
    believe that they have "misused" some pretty basic antenna
    design principles in order to support their claims.

Bottom line for me:  I can NOT heartily endorse the GAP.  It
appears to "work", but I'm not sure how well.  I have some
rather high SWR's in spots, but am able to load it OK using
the antenna tuner built in to the Kenwood TS850S.

73 de KG2EP (Paul)






From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Gehrke's input regarding Doty's article
Date: 21 Dec 1995 12:17:37 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bbj91$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Doty's experiment was intended to be a "real world" setup, with a xmtr
that is remote from the antenna and fed with a long coax.  Many VLF/MF
stations are set up this way. The goal is to collect *all* of the ground
current to the base of the antenna and return it to the xmtr via the
braid of the coax. It is perfectly reasonable to expect that if the
number of radials is not extremely large, some of the ground current
will meander off in odd directions and eventually reach the xmtr, in the
process heating up the ground, lighting light bulbs, electrifying
chain link fences etc, etc.  These are precisely the problems that
the VLF and BC guys deal with. Kirchoff is always satisfied, one way
or another, back at the xmtr, but maybe not completely at the base of
the antenna. If the coax center wire current is not equal to the braid
return current the coax will *radiate* to some extent (as W8JITom
has mentioned). And of course these stray currents add to the system
losses and also affect the antenna driving point resistance.

I think it is not useful to be worrying a lot about Kirchoff, but
instead use the current deficit as a measure of the effectiveness
of the radial system, and do what is needed to eliminate the
deficit. (Put Newt Gingrich to work on it).

Finally, I would like to see a more charitable assessment of Doty's
work on this current deficit problem. I have talked with him on
the telephone and found him to be a credible guy whose opinions
I respect.

73, Bill Sabin W0IYH


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sandia.gov!tesuque.cs.sandia.gov!lynx.unm.edu!cobra.unm.edu!BOARDMAN
From: [e-mail] (Bob Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Good 2m Mag-mount Antennas?
Date: 20 Dec 1995 18:20:35 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Research & Treatment Cntr
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4b9k5j$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.unm.edu


    I'm looking for a good 2 meter mag-mount antenna so I can use my
  Kensood TH22-AT in my vehicle.  The MFJ-1278B 5/8 wave mag-mount
  for $24.95 is certainly attractive in terms of price.  I'd appreciate
  any comments from anyone who has used one of these, or suggestions
  for any other 2m mag-mount antennas I should consider.

  -Bob

  P.S.  I would have had a callsign by now, but the damn FCC shut down
        with the rest of the worthless "non-essential" Feds...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=
|      Bob Boardman, UNM Cancer Research & Treatment Center, Albuquerque, NM
|
|                     internet: [e-mail]
|
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Grounding problem with G5RV?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:23:30 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4asicp$[e-mail]>
References: <4an0g7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Chris Dorn) wrote:

>The difficulty began when I bought a Drake TR7 solid state unit. With
>the unit I could not tune 80m. Other bands are fine, but on 80m the
>SWR would shoot from 3:1 to 10:1 at times. The unit is fine on 80
>into a dummy load.

Chris,

Are you using a tuner?  That's normally considered a "must" with
the G5RV, at least if you want to use it on all bands.

The need for a RF ground at the rig is an indicator that RF is flowing
on the outside of the coax.  If the ladder line was brought directly
into your shack, and you were to use a balanced tuner (not a balun
conversion), the overall situation would be greatly improved.

You might try a ferrite choke on the outside of the coax where it
connects to the ladder line.  That will help keep the RF from getting
back into the shack, although it might also absorb some power on
certain bands.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news1.radix.net!xcitor
From: [e-mail] (xcitor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest
Date: 20 Dec 1995 20:52:29 GMT
Organization: People's Republic of Laurel, MD, USA
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4b9t2d$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: saltmine.radix.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Does anyone know how I can subscribe to this list?



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!io.org!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #609
Date: 17 Dec 95 16:28:41 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

In a message dated 95-12-17 09:57:33 EST, you write:

>Date: 17 Dec 1995 00:55:58 GMT
>From: [e-mail] (Dave Pascoe KM3T)
>Subject: Wrist rocket
>
>I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot
>which is useful for launching wires up over trees.
>
>Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net.
>
>73
>Dave

K-Mart sells a Marksman slingshot here in Connecticut.  Works fine.  Just
make sure you hold it with the handle up, and the fishing line laid out in
front of you.  This will avoid the line getting caught on you or the
slingshot.

Painting the lead weight bright orange is said to help.  One other note.  If
you have to pull it back to you, remember that the weight will come flying
back at wherever you hold the fishing line, so hold it away from your head.

Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #610
Date: 19 Dec 95 02:37:54 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

>From: [e-mail] (Dave Pascoe KM3T)
>Subject: Wrist rocket
>
>I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot
>which is useful for launching wires up over trees.
>
>Please e-mail and I'll summarize for the net.
>
>73
>Dave

>K-Mart sells a Marksman slingshot here in Connecticut.  Works fine.  Just
>make sure you hold it with the handle up, and the fishing line laid out in
front >of you.  This will avoid the line getting caught on you or the
slingshot.

>Painting the lead weight bright orange is said to help.  One other note.  If
you >have to pull it back to you, remember that the weight will come
flying back at >wherever you hold the fishing line, so hold it away
from your head.

>Tom

Do yourself a favor.  After you buy the slingshot, fishing reel, and
paint the sinker orange, buy yourself one of those cheap plastic face
shields that most of the home improvement stores like Lowe's sells.
Wear it when you fire the slingshot.  It is possible to get a misfire
that will cause the sinker to come back at you.  I got nailed in the
chops and broke a tooth.  Darn lucky I didn't get hit in the eye.  The
shield is a lot cheaper then the dentist; or worse!

de Rick, KN3C




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!psgrain!rainrgnews0!europa.com!usenet
From: "Frank A. Adrian" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Helically wound dipoles
Date: 19 Dec 1995 06:30:29 GMT
Organization: ancar technology
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4b5m65$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: europa115.europa.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

I'm thinking of putting up an antenna for longer wavelength reception.
Being limited in horizontal space and not really wanting to dig up the
yard to install radials, I've looked over the possibilities and have
decided that for longer wavelengths, a helically-wound dipole, mounted
in a vertical orientaton, would probably be OK.  Has anyone ever set up
one of these beasties?

The main reason I ask is that there are some books out there that
describe this configuration, but they give minimal and inconclusive
(or even conflicting) information about this configuration (e.g., most
books say that this configuration's Q is higher than a normal dipole,
but one book says that because of the wire's larger effective diameter,
it will have a lower Q than a dipole).  Any information anyone would be
able to provide would be appreciated.  I also have a few other specific
questions about this configuration:

1) Is the capacitance hat installed to lower the Q of the antenna (thus
increasing the useful bandwidth) or is it installed to make the feedpoint
impedance more closely match that of normal feedlines?

2) Given reasonable size capacity hats (say no more than 3 ft. in
diameter), how low can you get the antenna's Q?

2) Given that the linear loading of the helical winding changes the
length of wire needed to resonate at a certain frequency, is there any
hope that the antenna will resonate on higher bands anywhere near a
multiple of the fundamental resonance frequency? (E.g., will an antenna
tuned for 80M also be resonant at 40M?  Anywhere close?)

3)  Can helicals be arrayed?  How well?

Well, that's about it.  Any anecdotal evidence would be appreciated (not
that I would ignore any information made by someone doing an actual EM
model :-).  Thanks in advance...

Frank A. Adrian
[e-mail]



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!usenet.hana.nm.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Helically wound dipoles
Date: 19 Dec 1995 08:51:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 36
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b6g0t$[e-mail]>
References: <4b5m65$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Frank,
In article <4b5m65$[e-mail]>, "Frank A. Adrian"
<[e-mail]> writes:

>1) Is the capacitance hat installed to lower the Q of the antenna (thus
>increasing the useful bandwidth) or is it installed to make the feedpoint
>impedance more closely match that of normal feedlines?

Yes, it lowers system Q. And it also can increase efficiency.

>2) Given reasonable size capacity hats (say no more than 3 ft. in
>diameter), how low can you get the antenna's Q?

Depends on the antenna length and frequency. If the antenna is very short
in terms of wavelength, the Q is determined by the series reactances and
resistances. The less lumped inductance and the more capacitance, the
lower the Q for fixed losses. But for any reasonable efficiency short
antenna the Q will be pretty high.

>2) Given that the linear loading of the helical winding changes the
>length of wire needed to resonate at a certain frequency, is there any
>hope that the antenna will resonate on higher bands anywhere near a
>multiple of the fundamental resonance frequency? (E.g., will an antenna
>tuned for 80M also be resonant at 40M?  Anywhere close?)

Pure luck.

>3)  Can helicals be arrayed?  How well?

Depends on what you mean and what the application is. As a general rule,
not very well. They are lossy antennas, and losses are increased in an
array by the decrease of radiation resistance that generally goes along
with pattern compression. For receiving this may not matter, as long as
the array sensitivity remains limited by outside noise.

73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!zib-berlin.de!news.tu-chemnitz.de!irz401!news1.urz.tu-dresden.de!server2.rz.uni-leipzig.de!news.uni-jena.de!news.tu-ilmenau.de!prakinf2.PrakInf.TU-Ilmenau.DE!news.uni-stuttgart.de!moritz
From: [e-mail] ()
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Helically wound dipoles
Date: 19 Dec 1995 16:14:37 GMT
Organization: Comp.Center (RUS), U of Stuttgart, FRG
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b6odd$[e-mail]>
References: <4b5m65$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ipers1.e-technik.uni-stuttgart.de

In article <4b5m65$[e-mail]>,
Frank A. Adrian <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I'm thinking of putting up an antenna for longer wavelength reception.

Hi Frank,

If you are just interested in reception, a loop antenna is perfectly OK,
even a small whip (active antenna). Anyway, a helical dipole is by far
not the best method to lower the resonant frequency, lumped
loading coils are better.

73, Moritz DL5UH



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!sunrise.gv.ssi1.com!oronet!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Helically wound dipoles
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:12:59 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4b762d$[e-mail]>
References: <4b5m65$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

"Frank A. Adrian" <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I'm thinking of putting up an antenna for longer wavelength reception.

[snip in consideration of bandwidth]

And I'd like to know if anybody has tried this at VHF -- specifically
100-500 MHz. or so, or a reference to a text that describes it in
functional (as opposed to analytical) detail.

Jim



Jim Weir VP Engineering  | "We seem to be standing on
RST Engineering          |  the foreskin of technology."
Grass Valley CA 95945    | (Gen. Chuck Yeager)
voice/fax [phone]   |
[e-mail]  AR Adv WB6BHI  CFI A&G/Comml Inst A&G/A&P/C-182A N73CQ



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!aa766
From: [e-mail] (Michael Panopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help - 160m Beverage
Date: 21 Dec 1995 06:57:58 GMT
Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada.
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4bb0hm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN]

Hello and thanks for reading this.

I want to erect a 1000 foot long wire abt 8 feet above ground for
receiving only.

Any sugestions how to how to terminate the end? And, what to do in
building a matching section?

Thanks

Mike  VE3AHQ

--


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help - 160m Beverage
Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:34:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bbraf$[e-mail]>
References: <4bb0hm$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Mike,
In article <4bb0hm$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Michael Panopoulos) writes:

>Hello and thanks for reading this.
>
>I want to erect a 1000 foot long wire abt 8 feet above ground for
>receiving only.

It's pretty well established that lengths over 1 wl don't add performance,
but they don't hurt much either.

>Any sugestions how to how to terminate the end? And, what to do in
>building a matching section?

Terminate it in a 400 to 700 ohm carbon or metal film low power resistor.
Use multiple ground rods and perhaps a small group of buried wires at both
ends. The ground doesn't need to be real good.

I use a small ferrite core transformer here with a stack of four FB-73-801
beads. Two turn primary (to rx) and a five or six turn secondary of small
enameled wire.

The system isn't critical.

73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.crd.ge.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (John A. Sutliff)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: help greenhorn with MFJ+longwire
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 18:43:16 GMT
Organization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b4cm3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: backscatter.crd.ge.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have 500ft of wire and an MFJ 491E?? tuner which has a wire in/out
connector.  If I use that connector I need no feed line but should I
be concerned about how I configure the wire to its first support??
Right now the wire goes straight up from ground level (where tuner and
electrical ground are) about 20 feet then turns a right angle and
slopes up to first support (tree) about 80 feet away.  I just hooked
it up yesterday and let the remaining coiled wire at the base of the
tree, so it's more like two verticals sections at the moment.  Any
comments, advise, help.  Right now want to listen, but after I pass
code will want to do cw and SSb on 10m/40m/80m.

John Sutliff



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usr7ip18.azstarnet.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Jim Mandaville)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: help greenhorn with MFJ+longwire
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:01:23 +0600
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4b4cm3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr7ip18.azstarnet.com

In article <4b4cm3$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John A.
Sutliff) wrote:

  I just hooked
> it up yesterday and let the remaining coiled wire at the base of the
> tree

You're setup sounds fine to me, John, except for that coil of extra wire
on the ground.  That's probably acting like a capacitor to ground and
losing you a lot of signal.  Better to cut off the wire at the far end
where it's still high, or keept the end coil very compact and keep it high
at the end (if you can't find a high support to continue to).  73, Jim,
KG5KP


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:51 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!EU.net!ieunet!maths.tcd.ie!news.tcd.ie!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (TCD News System )
Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin
X-Newsreader: <WinQVT/Net v3.9>
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:57:17 GMT
Lines: 40

In article <4b4b63$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pricemw)
writes:

>>Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio
>signal?
>>Your assistance is much appreciated.
>
>Rick--
>Good question!!  From memory, I think the equation is 36.6+20log f + 20
>log d.
>f is in mhz,  d is in miles, and the answer is in db. This should be
>checked, since I have not used the equation in several years.
>
>However, remember that the equation is for a point source, and assumes
>that radiation is in all directions, thus the path loss. (The total
>radiated power is distributed on the imaginary spherical surface at
>distance d.  As d increases, the watts/square surface decreases.)
>
>So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each
>other would have NO path loss.  i.e. all the transmitted power is
>received.
>
>--Wayne    W5GIE in Redlands, CA

The last statement here is incorrect -- path loss always exists.

The overall equation for directional antennas is

Loss = Path Loss -(Tx Ant Gain + Rx Antenna Gain )

where the antenna gains are in the direction of the other terminal.

This means that antennas directly pointing at each other will have
the maximum gain (maximum effective radiated power) but if the
beams are offset then the actual gain will be less.

Dr. Gerry Butler,  CEng. MIEE. [[e-mail]]
TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland
Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
[ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usenet
From: Wes Stewart <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Date: 19 Dec 1995 13:35:19 GMT
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4b6f2n$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr8ip34.azstarnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] wrote:
>In article <4b4b63$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pricemw)
>writes:
>
[bandwidth reduced]

>>So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each
>>other would have NO path loss.  i.e. all the transmitted power is
>>received.

>>--Wayne    W5GIE in Redlands, CA


>The last statement here is incorrect -- path loss always exists.
>The overall equation for directional antennas is
>Loss = Path Loss -(Tx Ant Gain + Rx Antenna Gain )
>where the antenna gains are in the direction of the other terminal.

>Dr. Gerry Butler,

It appears that if a "perfect" antenna can be described as one
with infinite gain, then you fellows are in complete agreement.

How refreshing <g>

73, Wes -- N7WS



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk
From: "Anthony R. Gold" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 12:33:37 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]  writes:

> In article <4b4b63$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pricemw)
> writes:

> >So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each
> >other would have NO path loss.  i.e. all the transmitted power is
> >received.
>
> The last statement here is incorrect -- path loss always exists.

Perhaps all you really mean is that there are no perfect dishes.  If two
perfect dishes pass 100% of the power from one to the other, where is
there scope for loss?

Regards,
--
   Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM                  email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk
From: "Anthony R. Gold" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 10:52:28 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4b6f2n$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk
X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk

In article <4b6f2n$[e-mail]>
           [e-mail] "Wes Stewart" writes:

> It appears that if a "perfect" antenna can be described as one
> with infinite gain, then you fellows are in complete agreement.

Not exactly.  The perfect dish contemplated has zero beam width.  The
signal passes in a perfect cylinder which is wholly captured by the
receiving dish.  In terms of the dish's gain versus an isotrope or a
dipole, that gain will increase with distance from the dish and it will
only be infinite at an infinite distance from the dish.  By which time
the operator without perfect bladder control will have wondered off.

Regards,
--
   Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM                  email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:55 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Pricemw)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Date: 20 Dec 1995 02:51:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b8f9u$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Pricemw)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Well, the intention was not to stir up a debate with the fictitious
perfect dish example.  I was trying to illustrate that path loss occurs
because of  dispersion of a signal on a spherical surface around the
radiator, rather than by attenuation through the medium of free space.

At twice the distance, the power is distributed over 4 times the area,
leading to a 6 db path loss each time the distance is doubled (assuming a
fixed receive antenna).  However, my perfect dish antennas do not permit
the signal to have an angular dispersion.  The radiated power is spread
across a disk the size of the dish.  The size of this disk is constant at
any distance, thus having a constant density of x watts per square
whatever.  Thus, no path loss.

If I permit dispersion at a very small angle, and increase my receiving
antenna size such that all radiated power is captured, there also is no
path loss.  I might conjecture that there is no path loss for a point
radiator centered inside a spherical receive antenna.

--Wayne  W5GIE in Redlands, CA
(On the other hand....what do I know?  I'm management)



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:56 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!Germany.EU.net!ieunet!news.tcd.ie!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (TCD News System )
Organization: Teltec, MEE, Trinity College Dublin
X-Newsreader: <WinQVT/Net v3.9>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 16:15:10 GMT
Lines: 35

In article <4b8f9u$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pricemw)
writes:

>Well, the intention was not to stir up a debate with the fictitious
>perfect dish example.  I was trying to illustrate that path loss occurs
>because of  dispersion of a signal on a spherical surface around the
>radiator, rather than by attenuation through the medium of free space.
>
>At twice the distance, the power is distributed over 4 times the area,
>leading to a 6 db path loss each time the distance is doubled (assuming a
>fixed receive antenna).  However, my perfect dish antennas do not permit
>the signal to have an angular dispersion.  The radiated power is spread
>across a disk the size of the dish.  The size of this disk is constant at
>any distance, thus having a constant density of x watts per square
>whatever.  Thus, no path loss.
>
>If I permit dispersion at a very small angle, and increase my receiving
>antenna size such that all radiated power is captured, there also is no
>path loss.  I might conjecture that there is no path loss for a point
>radiator centered inside a spherical receive antenna.
>
>--Wayne  W5GIE in Redlands, CA
>(On the other hand....what do I know?  I'm management)
>

I would agree with the above. Although some loss might occur due to absorption

by any material between the antennas.

The situation is, however, hypothetical and unlikely to occur in the real
world.

Dr. Gerry Butler,  CEng. MIEE. [[e-mail]]
TELTEC-TCD (Radio Propagation Planning), Trinity College,Dublin 2,Ireland
Dept. of Electronic and Electrical Engineering,
[ Dublin+Wicklow Mountain Rescue / EI0CH / EMT-D ]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!news.sara.nl!news.pi.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: HF on Toyota Pickups
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 22:52:19 PDT
Organization: Planet Internet
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: maa44.pi.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: NEWTNews & Chameleon -- TCP/IP for MS Windows from NetManage


In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]
>
writes:
> Path:
news.pi.net!news.sara.nl!news.nic.surfnet.nl!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.i
n
ternetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usr7ip18.azsta
r
net.com!user
> From: [e-mail] (Jim Mandaville)
> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
> Subject: HF on Toyota Pickups
> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:09:06 +0600
> Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
> Lines: 10
> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: usr7ip18.azstarnet.com
>
>    I expect to take delivery of a new Toyota pickup soon and wonder if
> anyone has had experience installing an HF rig and antenna in one.  I'd be
> interested to know of mechanical arrangements that have worked and
> especially whether any unusual receiving noise problems or car electronics
> problems were encountered.  If so, any solutions.  My tentative plan is to
> install a screwdriver or bugcatcher at the outer left rear of the bed.
> There will be a fiberglass shell, which hopefully will have little effect
> on the antenna.  Thanks and 73.
>
> Jim, KG5KP
>
Howdy Jim,

No Toyota here,
But if for any interest.
I just run a converted CB anntena on the trunk of my car.
Goes verry well, only one hole, after all it's just a CB antenna.

Pascal de PA3FKM




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:24:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!pravda.aa.msen.com!news
From: [e-mail] (AA8NF - Joe)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160??
Date: 17 Dec 1995 20:20:39 GMT
Organization: DRs Mesh, P.C.
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <4b1u2n$[e-mail]>
References: <4b1lva$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: jmesh.pnet.msen.com
X-Newsreader: OUI 1.0.2 FC

>> The
most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to
remove the baseloading when not on 160... <<

That is a definite alternative.   Another approach is to connect a
length of wire at the top of the third tower section (the 24ft mark) and
run it horizontally as a 160 decoupling stub.   The antenna becomes an
"L" design for 160m.   The design is consistent in that it retains the
auto-bandswitching feature.  It is a compromised approach but if it fits
your needs you should  find the performance to be similar to the base
loading coil and potentially morereliable in that no switching is
required .
How many decoupling stubs can one add to a vertical of this design
before it becomes a radiating dummy load?

Examine your spacing at 160m and decide if adding the further switching
complexity of an additional phasing delay line for this band is
desirable or not...

--
Thanks....AA8NF - Joe
from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA
12/17/95      15:18
_______________________________________
Always available at:
   [e-mail]  -or-  [e-mail]
   Please visit our Web Page at:
   http://www.drsmesh.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.1

mQBtAy6eMfIAAAEDALwrWEs+O743G3ANgMDgUxCfK9F1vTR99q4OL05cyGI68nlk
ygUkdYG7CG0BnI8CzOJmSQeTJGjLV6Mw+LGA7UgzybInGUXJMkw7xKRtpZ8QEi+/
PQWM6R7AuxwjYt5iuQAFEbQlUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fsbmlja0BkZWphdnUuc3Br
LndhLnVzPokAdQMFEDB7NL7AuxwjYt5iuQEBGs0DAJf1cyNUKYjSsYxBRtLt7GA4
vd7PPjhs5Gg5q2OqizIUdLQFbCG+IgzN+ftbqp00RvE1eUm62qAzC6DKvZNH2+jR
ZxflW1yk2fSSsoi82jrxzeYwO9jk7o/AjeVi5T/uXLQrUlcgU2FsbmljayA8c2Fs
bmlja0B0ZWFjaC5rYWlzZXIuc3BrLndhLnVzPg==
=+hd/
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Ron Klein )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Hygain Hytower on 160??
Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:02:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4b1lva$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-ftc-co1-10.ix.netcom.com

I'd like to find out what others might be doing to use the Hygain
Hytower on 160. I have a pair of these used as a 2 ele. phased array on
75 and 40. I've considered trying to put one of them on 160, with
switchable control to use it either as part of the array, or as a
standalone 160 vertical.

Any comments from anybody who might have loaded one of these on 160? The
most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to
remove the baseloading when not on 160...

73,
--
Ron Klein - W0OSK
-----------------
[e-mail]





From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!composer.inav.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160??
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 04:00:45 GMT
Organization: Internet Navigator, Inc.
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4b5dbq$[e-mail]>
References: <4b1lva$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dip45.inav.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Ron Klein ) wrote:

>I'd like to find out what others might be doing to use the Hygain
>Hytower on 160. I have a pair of these used as a 2 ele. phased array on
>75 and 40. I've considered trying to put one of them on 160, with
>switchable control to use it either as part of the array, or as a
>standalone 160 vertical.

>Any comments from anybody who might have loaded one of these on 160? The
>most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to
>remove the baseloading when not on 160...

>73,
>--
>Ron Klein - W0OSK
>-----------------
>[e-mail]

Ron:

Some time ago I seen an article where someone placed a 40 meter trap
at the top of 40 metre radiator and then tied a wire to that to make
an inverted L out of the Hytower.

On mine I tied a 60 foot wire at the top of the 80 metre radiator to
make an inverted L.  I matched it on 160 through a tapped coil to
ground.  It had about 100 kHz of band width.  As I remember, I
switched in a  series capacitor to tune it on 80.

I hope this helps.

Gayle



 Gayle Lawson W0FO




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:02 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.crd.ge.com!rebecca!rpi!gatech!news01.aud.alcatel.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (dick sander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160??
Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:32:42 GMT
Organization: Alcatel Network Systems Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4b70ga$[e-mail]>
References: <4b1lva$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: techws06.aud.alcatel.com

>I'd like to find out what others might be doing to use the Hygain
>Hytower on 160. I have a pair of these used as a 2 ele. phased array on
>75 and 40. I've considered trying to put one of them on 160, with
>switchable control to use it either as part of the array, or as a
>standalone 160 vertical.
>
>Any comments from anybody who might have loaded one of these on 160? The
>most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to
>remove the baseloading when not on 160...
>
>73,
>--
>Ron Klein - W0OSK

Hi Ron,

I also use two 18HT hytowers on 75/40m. I use an old Electro Space (ESI)
steering-combiner to control them. Hygain sells a trap and wire kit for
160m, but I've never used it. I used a base loading coil and tapped the
coil for a low vswr feed point on each tower. I made contacts, but nothing
spectacular. I got tired of installing/removing the coils each time I wanted
to operate 160m. I ended up building a 60 ft top loaded vertical in another
part of the yard. Each of the Hytowers have 32 radials and the 160m vert
had 16 radials. I A/B compared them for about a month and come to the
conclusion that the homebrew vertical worked as well.

Dick, K5QY




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Ron Klein )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Hygain Hytower on 160??
Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:36:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <4bbnsp$[e-mail]>
References: <4b1lva$[e-mail]> <4b1u2n$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-ftc-co1-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 21  5:36:25 AM PST 1995

In <4b1u2n$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (AA8NF - Joe) writes:

>
>>> The
>most straightforward way would be to baseload it with switching to
>remove the baseloading when not on 160... <<
>
>That is a definite alternative.   Another approach is to connect a
>length of wire at the top of the third tower section (the 24ft mark)
and
>run it horizontally as a 160 decoupling stub.   The antenna becomes an
>"L" design for 160m.   The design is consistent in that it retains the
>auto-bandswitching feature.  It is a compromised approach but if it
fits
>your needs you should  find the performance to be similar to the base
>loading coil and potentially morereliable in that no switching is
>required .
>How many decoupling stubs can one add to a vertical of this design
>before it becomes a radiating dummy load?
>
>Examine your spacing at 160m and decide if adding the further switching
>complexity of an additional phasing delay line for this band is
>desirable or not...
>
>--
>Thanks....AA8NF - Joe
>from Beautiful Downtown HELL, Michigan USA
>12/17/95      15:18
>_______________________________________
>Always available at:
>   [e-mail]  -or-  [e-mail]
>   Please visit our Web Page at:
>   http://www.drsmesh.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
I do not intend to use the pair phased on 160. Have you used the
technique which you described above on your installation? What was the
resulting performance?

73, de W0OSK
--
Ron Klein
---------
[e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:04 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!winternet.com!news
From: sholisky <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Invisible fence?
Date: 21 Dec 1995 05:01:13 GMT
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4bapmp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-67-29.dialup.winternet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12(Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna

My neighbor just put in an "invisible dog fence". I can just see
"fluffy" doing the jig when I fire up on 40 cw....Anybody have one of
these modern devices or knows how they respond to RFI (overload) ?

Tnx 73's Scott WB°ATR




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:05 1995
From: [e-mail] (Doug Reed)
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Is It possible to get on
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 06:51:12 -0100
X-FTN-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 22

MJ>From: [e-mail] (Sully O'Sullivan)
MJ>hi there...
MJ>apparently my uncle bought a modem which allows him to use his
MJ>ham radio and get onto the net...
MJ>does anyone have any kind of information on a system like this?
MJ>any info would be much appreciated.

You don't have many details but I assume your uncle has bought a packet
radio TNC and that one of the other stations in his area is a "gateway"
between the radio and the Internet.  My guess would be he is using one
of the newer 9600 baud packet radio TNC's and the frequency would depend
on what is operating in his area.  I believe the Ottawa area has such
access available and in St Paul where I live there is one station
providing such a "gateway" via 444 MHz 9600 baud packet radio.  If you
need more info, I expect you'll have better luck in rec.radio.digital or
a similar area.
73's.
Doug Reed, N0NAS            email: [e-mail]

 * SLMR 2.1a * What happened to the Paperless Computerized Revolution?




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:07 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!wa2ise
From: [e-mail] (Robert Casey)
Subject: J pole antenna using coax for matching scetion (instead of twinlead)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <4b9jgi$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 18:13:12 GMT
Lines: 63
Sender: [e-mail]

A J POLE ANTENNA USING COAX FOR THE STUB

Instead of 300 ohm twinlead.

Decided to try using a piece of RG58 coax in place of the usual
300 ohm TV twinlead.  They're both transmission lines.   So, a
quarter wave length of eighter should work (factor in velocity
factor in measuring out a quarter wave length, twinlead is 0.88
and RG58 poly is 0.66).  And the coax is unbalanced, so no
theoritical need for a choke balun (ferrite beads or many turn
coil).  The coax shield is at RF ground potential, the RF is
on the center conductor, and the open end of the quarter wave
stub center conductor connects to the end of the half wave
dipole.  The tap is formed by "T" connecting the stub coax
to the coax feedline from the radio.

Take some RG58, short shield to center conductor.
Measure 13 1/4 inches from the short, remove the outside jacket
and shield at this point and beyond.  Leave an inch or 2 of
center conductor sticking out.

Measure 1 inch from the short, and prepare to do a "T" connection
here.  Create a hole in the outer shield about 1/3 inch long
and peel it about half way round the coax.  Then take a razor blade
and remove enough insulation from the center conductor to bare a
small spot.  Enough to do a tack solder connection, which connects
to the center conductor of the feedline coax.  And shield to
shield.  Take care to get a good connection without shorts.
Take your time here.  One probably could just use a BNC T connector
here, and make a short shorted cable for one side, and a longer
cable to feed the dipole on the other.  Just keep the overall
lengths right.

Now connect a length of wire to the center conductor sticking out
the open end of the stub, enough so the length of the wire and
the amount of center conductor protruding beyond the end of the
coax shield totals 37 1/2 inches.  This is the dipole part.


ASCII attempted diagram:                 |
                                         |
                                         |
                                         |
                                         |   37 1/2 inches
                                         |
                                         |
                                         |
                                        |||
                         _______________|||   13 1/4 inches (includes below
   2M HT---bird wattmeter----------------||                  1 inch)
                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|||   1 inch
                                        ~~~

Used a 2 meter HT and a Bird wattmeter to measure forward and reflected
power, indirectly SWR.  My forward power was ten times reflected power,
not bad.  At one point, I had a bad T connection (bad solder joint)
that caused the forward power to almost equal reflected power.  Fixed
that, and now it works like the twinlead Jpoles.  Ran my hand along
the feedline coax, and the stub, no effect on reflected power.  Did
get reflected power if I get near the dipole part, as expected.

And I could hit repeaters pretty well, considering I was in the
basement.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usenet
From: Wes Stewart <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:57:43 GMT
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <4b1lmn$[e-mail]>
References: <4avp95$[e-mail]> <4b057v$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr6ip50.azstarnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
>In article <4avp95$[e-mail]>, Wes Stewart
><[e-mail]> writes:
>
[snip]

>That is the point of most concentrated electric field, even though the
>bulk of the path is air.
>
>The only feel for that I have is when I made open wire line from lexan
>spacers and #14 wire, the tuning changed a lot after I stripped the PVC
>insulation off the wire. At that time I had virtually no test equipment,
>so I only know tuning settings were different.
>
>It would be interesting to see just how much improvement is made if the
>solid areas are trimmed back while the coating is left on the wire.
>
>What do you all think would happen? And what did the QST article say?
>
>73 Tom

Tom:

First let me state that my comments were in regard to the effects of
moisture on the performance of the line.  I fail to see how there
would be a significant difference in the loss/tuning of the "window"
portion of the line because the insulation was wet. This of course
assumes no contamination on the insulation other than water.

The presence of the insulation on the wire in the window portion of
the line does affect the impedance of that section. The capacitance
of these sections, as in any other capacitor, is dependent upon the
size and spacing of the plates and the dielectric between them.

In this case, there is a dielectric "sandwich" of poly-air-poly. If
we remove the two layers of poly, we get a different capacitance per
unit length and therefore a different Zo for the section.

I feel, but haven't worked up a proof, that the tuning/loss changes you
and others experience with these kinds of lines are due in some part
to the high SWRs they are usually operated under. The "sensitivity" of the
systems are very high; a minor change in anything requires a substantial
readjustment.

I also believe that using a transmission line who's impedance changes every
few inches is a dumb idea.

The QST article was directed to beginners and made some claims that were,
IMHO exaggerated. The matched line loss was taken from the flawed chart
in the ARRL publications and no consideration was given to balun and tuner
losses. I wrote some detailed correspondence to Paul Pagel and Dean Straw
but it was never published. Dean has promised that the line loss chart
will be corrected in future printing of the Antenna Book, however. There
is also a new section in the Antenna Book; "Highly Reflective Loads" that
bears an amazing similarity to some of my examples.

Regards,

Wes




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!news.inc.net!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: 18 Dec 1995 00:01:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 39
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b2siv$[e-mail]>
References: <4b1lmn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4b1lmn$[e-mail]>, Wes Stewart
<[e-mail]> writes:

>First let me state that my comments were in regard to the effects of
>moisture on the performance of the line.  I fail to see how there
>would be a significant difference in the loss/tuning of the "window"
>portion of the line because the insulation was wet. This of course
>assumes no contamination on the insulation other than water.

I was questioning how much the dielectric around the conductors affects
the line in the window area. I have no feel for how large or small that
effect is.

>In this case, there is a dielectric "sandwich" of poly-air-poly. If
>we remove the two layers of poly, we get a different capacitance per
>unit length and therefore a different Zo for the section.

>I feel, but haven't worked up a proof, that the tuning/loss changes you
>and others experience with these kinds of lines are due in some part
>to the high SWRs they are usually operated under. The "sensitivity" of
the
>systems are very high; a minor change in anything requires a substantial
>readjustment.

I'm sure it is. But then, that's how that line is usually operated.

>I also believe that using a transmission line who's impedance changes
every
>few inches is a dumb idea.

I agree with you, but no one makes good ladder line today! So we are
stuck.

Anyway, the line does work...even if it could be better. My biggest
problem with it is the wind load! I have a 140 foot drop hanging from a
dipole. It looks like a sail in the wind.

73 Tom



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder-line measurements
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 95 05:53:36 GMT
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4asiae$[e-mail]> <4at6ue$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen) wrote:

>Here are some measurements I made years ago and published in QST's
>Technical Correspondence in Feb. 1982. I measured the matched loss of
>100 feet of flat 300 ohm TV twinlead on 21 MHz.

Many thanks for posting this, Roy.  I was inactive in '82 and never
saw the original article.

Those are terrible numbers.  This continues to point to the need to
build open wire line.  Maybe I can split my ladder line and use it
for a radial system.  ;)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Mike McLendon)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 18 Dec 1995 15:06:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <4b4011$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-rtp4-22.ix.netcom.com

Gary,

Deja vu! I really related to your experience with learning morse. I
got my no code tech license in the fall of 1993 and decided that I
wanted to upgrade. I was 41 yrs old and had always been interested
in amateur radio but never had the elmer to help me with getting
started.

The no-code path was the trigger that got me licensed in 93 as I
have a technical background; but no morse... well I bought the tapes
and began the lessons. I thought I was stupid - the more I worked
the worse I got as far as where I thought I was in the scheme of
things (a lot like you related).

Here is what then happened: I worked out with the tapes at 5 wpm for
20 minutes in the car on the way to work and 20 minutes on the
commute home. After about 4-5 weeks, I had abused my brain to the
point that I actually could recognize most of the characters so I
went to an exam session to try out my new skill - and flunked the
exam.

Well that really hacked me off - a slap in the face! Old farts can't
learn a new 'language' they say. Need more motivation to learn
morse? Listen to several bad 75M phone conversations and you will
realize that there are other modes (CW and digital) and phone bands
where people are much more congenial. You are going to need the
higher classes of licenses to work the better bands.

I started to listen to the W1AW code transmissions at slow speeds on
the air and: hey I was getting most of the stuff! So I started to
also listen to the novice bands on the air and: hey I was getting a
lot of the better 'fists'! I went back to the tapes after a few
nights of listening to code on the radio and IT WAS MUCH EASIER!
Really began a plan to alternate tapes and on the air code listening
and also tried to copy in my head. This made it actually fun. I also
studied the general class technical material for a break in the
routine.

So I took another shot at the exam at 5 wpm and passed (also passed
the general written exam)! What a rush... doing something that
really challenged me and being successful was a great feeling. Took
me 3 months from start to finish at 5 wpm.

Worked a lot of people in Ohio on the novice bands (that is where my
low hanging dipole launched my signals). I kept thinking about that
general written exam I had passed earlier and decided that I wanted the
rest of the tests to be over with so I went back to the tapes to take
me to 15 wpm (so I would pass the 13). Again I alternated tapes with on
air practice from W1AW and live QSOs. And I also studied the advanced
and extra written material.

When I went to take my 13 wpm test, I auditioned the morse test at 20
wpm just to listen and passed! At 20!- left the morse exam room and
proceeded to take and pass the advanced and extra exams at one sitting!
I entered the exam session as a no code tech and left as an extra class
in 9 months! I was really happy with that day's work. It took many
beers that night to celebrate.

Summary: just keep at it and try to make learning code something that
you WANT to do. It sure isn't easy to learn for a lot of people myself
especially. But you will whip it... By the way I seem to have
stabilized at about 15-18 wpm and really enjoy the occasional cw
ragchew with a good operator.

Cheers Gary and best regards - cul 73 - Mike - KE4END


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dns.crocker.com!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: [e-mail] (Brian Buydens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 19 Dec 1995 16:02:06 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4b6nlu$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mike_cash-1812950843080001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Mike, KN6IS ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <[e-mail]>,
: [e-mail] (GARY RAWSON) wrote:

: > Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
: > get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
: > October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest
: > with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code
: > tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it
: > to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
: > characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
: > the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
: > start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
: > more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
: > like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
: > do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
: > the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first
: > started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working
: > HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when
: > my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air
: > are listening it to this year.
: >
: > 73's
: > Gary
: > N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA
: > [e-mail]
: >
: > ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
: > --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

Mike:

I have a basic operators license (no code) so I am in no position to flame
you.  I too am learning code.  There is a program called Super Morse which
is available as shareware.  It will take you through the character groups
and has several options for drill and practice.  With it I found I was
plateau-ing at 9 wpm. (I want to be at 12 wpm).  So I switched to a
different strategy known as the Koch method.  Instead of learning the whole
character set and building up speed, the Koch method starts with speed
and builds up the character set.  I have to drive about 45 min. to work each
day and so I have 45 minute tapes of random characters transmitted at 15 wpm.
I started with just "a" and "b" and kept adding letters.  I am now at the
point of reliably copying "a" to "n" at 15 wpm.

One of the reasons for the plateau is that people build little methods of
remembering the letters.  (For example x -..- is an inverted p .--. etc.)
Most people's brains can do these calculations up to about 10 wpm. or so.
Going for a higher speed right away forces one to learn the letter by
sound only.

I am not saying this is the only way to learn code.  It is just the way
that seems to work for me.  One advantage of having the computer generate
random letters is that each letter is equally represented (so in theory
I should know them all equally well) and I don't tend to memorize the
tapes or anticipate what the word will be (Let's see... we have "th" so far,
the next letter should be an "e"... no it wasn't... oh no I missed it ...
etc.).

73


--
Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Pete..)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:37:12 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Palo Alto, CA, USA
Lines: 108
Message-ID: <4b87ef$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mike_cash-1812950843080001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil> <4b6nlu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mcs002.pc.sno.dec.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55

[e-mail] (Brian Buydens) wrote:

>Mike, KN6IS ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: In article <[e-mail]>,
>: [e-mail] (GARY RAWSON) wrote:

>: > Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
>: > get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
>: > October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest
>: > with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code
>: > tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it
>: > to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
>: > characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
>: > the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
>: > start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
>: > more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
>: > like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
>: > do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
>: > the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first
>: > started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working
>: > HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when
>: > my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air
>: > are listening it to this year.
>: >
>: > 73's
>: > Gary
>: > N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA
>: > [e-mail]
>: >
>: > ... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
>: > --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

>Mike:

>I have a basic operators license (no code) so I am in no position to flame
>you.  I too am learning code.  There is a program called Super Morse which
>is available as shareware.  It will take you through the character groups
>and has several options for drill and practice.  With it I found I was
>plateau-ing at 9 wpm. (I want to be at 12 wpm).  So I switched to a
>different strategy known as the Koch method.  Instead of learning the whole
>character set and building up speed, the Koch method starts with speed
>and builds up the character set.  I have to drive about 45 min. to work each
>day and so I have 45 minute tapes of random characters transmitted at 15 wpm.
>I started with just "a" and "b" and kept adding letters.  I am now at the
>point of reliably copying "a" to "n" at 15 wpm.

>One of the reasons for the plateau is that people build little methods of
>remembering the letters.  (For example x -..- is an inverted p .--. etc.)
>Most people's brains can do these calculations up to about 10 wpm. or so.
>Going for a higher speed right away forces one to learn the letter by
>sound only.

>I am not saying this is the only way to learn code.  It is just the way
>that seems to work for me.  One advantage of having the computer generate
>random letters is that each letter is equally represented (so in theory
>I should know them all equally well) and I don't tend to memorize the
>tapes or anticipate what the word will be (Let's see... we have "th" so far,
>the next letter should be an "e"... no it wasn't... oh no I missed it ...
>etc.).

>73


>--
>Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
>Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
>University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
>email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
>VE5RDV

Hello Chaps

I'm a VK (OZ) and have an unrestricted licence.  (10wpm cw)
No-one is going to flame you because you are prepared to put in the
effort !! I think what people take offence to is the people that
complain that WON'T try !!!..

Yes, there are plateaus that you reach and they can be VERY annoying
!!  The BEST program that I used was SUPERMORSE v4.0.  It's great as
it has soundblaster support.  I attained 13wpm in 3 months.  I was
absolutely determined to get my code out of the way and I did.  I
ended up spending 45 mins per day, every day for 3 months.  Through
the process I thought I was stupid, had dyslexia and anything else you
care to name.  It is NOT easy.  It needs dedication, turn off the
television and get rid of distractions.

There is a 99.9% chance that you are capabale and you are just hitting
new barriers.  How disappointed was I when I thought I was ready,
didn't touch they key for 5 days and then had another practice
session.  I couldn't get passed 5 wpm !!!

You are NOT alone in despair .  I don't think an Elmer would help.  I
think this is between you and the key.  Only YOU can master it.  No
one can do it for you !!

Best of luck and get through the exam.  Afterwards you'll wonder what
the fuss is all about !!!

Merry Xmas

Cheers..Peter

e-mail: [e-mail]
ax25:[e-mail] (for those that underestand)

The opiniuons expressed herein are solely mine and my employer
does not have the right to use my opinions..



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!what.whytel.com!primus.ansouth.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!col1.caribsurf.com!root
From: "Joseph P. Feehan" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:20:20 GMT
Organization: IKEEPMYOWN
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4b6vp4$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <mike_cash-1812950843080001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil> <4b6nlu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tlapm1_p5.caribsurf.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)

As a ham for some 50 years who operates almost exclusively CW, I
can tell you this:

1. There are many impediments to learning the code --
psychological, physiological, and otherwise.  There is an initial
learning barrier.  Everybody has different problems with the
code.

2. The barrier is climbed, gone around, or worked-around by
listening to on-the-air CW.  In the beginning, this calls for a
"saturation" effort.  Listen & try to grab a letter when you can.
Listen until your ears fall off.  Listen, listen, listen. YOU
WON'T LEARN IT OTHERWISE.

I can tell you this works.  It's analagous to learning juggling;
in the beginning you'll drop everything, but if you persist, you
WILL get it.

  This is the brute force method. I'm sure science could make
dramatic improvements in individual cases, but brute force works
for everyone!

Good luck & hang in there.       73, VP2VBL.






From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!micro.internexus.net!www.bconnex.net!grumpy.insinc.net!KEY.globalx.net!pagesat.net!netserv.com!aimnet.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Richard Murnane  x2175)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Learning CW
Date: 20 Dec 95 14:08:00 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


If you have Web access, you might like to check the article: "The Heartbreak
of the Morse (Some Tips to Help You Beat It)".

It's located at:   http://sydney.dialix.oz.au/~wiansw/articles/morse.html

or just go to the Wireless Insitute of Australia (New South Wales Division)
home page, http://sydney.dialix.oz.au/~wiansw,  go to Links, then to
Articles...

73 Richard VK2SKY


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 18 Dec 1995 03:10:52 GMT
Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net

Gary:
My Elmer, at least my first one, was my Uncle Charlie who qualified as a
high speed code operator in WWII. He taught me more than just a few morse
characters. The Army had done extensive study of *how* people learn c.w.
He explained to me that he, like most of the men in his outfit, hit
three plateaus at about 5, 13 and 20 WPM. He said it was hard to learn code
at first but, of course, the army way is to do it until it bleeds or hurts.
Practice, practice, practice seems to be the three best ways to do it.
I took a college class in ham radio and practiced every day for at least about
20-30 minutes. I mean, after all, it was homework! In one semester I got to
13 WPM. Its taken me another 20 years to finally start working on my speed aga
in
and get to 20 wpm (where I have plateaued)
Good luck on you quest! Also on the air practice is maybe the best and most
fun.
73 de WB0FDJ


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Joe Molter)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: M2 6 meter halo
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:50:21 GMT
Organization: University Hospitals of Cleveland
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <4b467v$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: phoenix.uh.cwru.edu
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Has anyone had experience with M2's six meter halo antenna? I am
especially interested for SSB. How does it compare to a dipole for 6?
Joe Molter                           [e-mail]
University Hospitals of Cleveland    http://chaos.uh.cwru.edu/uhweb1.html
Department of Radiology



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (CPaulien)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Date: 20 Dec 1995 01:11:39 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b89er$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (CPaulien)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
metal of a car roof?

Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF)
with a duplexer as compaired to a dual band antenna.  I just purchased a
dual band HT and am planning to install one or more antennas on my car. I
am not afraid to drill holes in the roof if I thought  it would be an
advantage to do so.

Chuck Paulien KG0PF


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:22 1995
Path: news.epix.net!plum.epix.net!will
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:05:22 -0500
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4b89er$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: plum.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
In-Reply-To: <4b89er$[e-mail]>


On 20 Dec 1995, CPaulien wrote:

> Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
> metal of a car roof?

Yes.

> Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF)

No.  Use a dual band ant.

[e-mail] - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:23 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!news1.boi.hp.com!bblohm
From: [e-mail] (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Sender: [e-mail] (Boise Site News Server)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:22:46 GMT
References: <4b89er$[e-mail]>
Nntp-Posting-Host: hpbs1686.boi.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
Lines: 17

CPaulien ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
: metal of a car roof?

Yes. I've used both, mag on the car, drilled and mounted on my old truck.
Both worked as well as the other. No problems with speed, etc.. Only two
problems: the hole in the truck when I decided to sell it meant I had to
do something to fix that and the mag mount didn't do much damage, but it
did make a mark on the car (since given to my daughter). The mark on the
car was easily removed with elbow grease. The hole in the truck I filled
with an old CB antenna I had laying around. Just something to think about
in the future. With the truck, for a permanent mount I'd make a bracket
and clamp the mag into that or get one of those hood lip brackets or make
a bracket that can be attached to existing screws and mount the through
connector there instead of drilling in the roof.

73 de Bill, KC7JSD


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:24 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!jgardner
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Gardner)
Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <4b89er$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:31:10 GMT
Lines: 21
Sender: [e-mail]

CPaulien ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
: metal of a car roof?

No. It is always preferable, from a technical point of view, to mount
the antenna permanently. Go ahead and drill a hole and use an NMO
mount. The installation looks much neater, and you don't have to worry
about the coax getting crushed and deformed by the door or window,
or whatever else you're routing it through. You don't see mag mounts
on police, fire, or service vehicles, do you?

: Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF)
: with a duplexer as compaired to a dual band antenna.  I just purchased a
: dual band HT and am planning to install one or more antennas on my car. I
: am not afraid to drill holes in the roof if I thought  it would be an
: advantage to do so.

There is an advantage, but not much, to using monoband antennas. Traps
can be lossy and should be avoided if possible.
--
Jerry Gardner          | Maintainer of the Large Format Digest
[e-mail]    | Send subscription requests to [e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!feenix.metronet.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Kelly Qualls)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 17:47:46 GMT
Organization: Texas Metronet, Inc  (login info (214/705-2901 - 817/571-0400))
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4b9i7p$[e-mail]>
References: <4b89er$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal67.metronet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82


In article <4b89er$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(CPaulien) writes:
>Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
>metal of a car roof?

I've never noticed a performance difference, but one cavet on mag
mounts:  If you leave it on you vehicle, in the same place, for too
long, you may run the risk of discoloring the finish under the mag
mount.

This happened to me when I used my mag in a temporary set-up for a few
months.  There is now a discolored area where the mag mount was
located.  I haven't tried yet, but I'm probablly going to try some
light compound and see if that helps.

Food for thought.

73's and good luck.

Kelly Qualls, KC5DEN
[e-mail]





From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.monad.net!usenet
From: Chester Bowles <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Date: 21 Dec 1995 20:17:12 GMT
Organization: Crotched Mountain Foundation
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4bcfc8$[e-mail]>
References: <4b89er$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bowles.cmf.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (CPaulien) wrote:
>Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
>metal of a car roof?
>

Basically, I agree with the other comments--there's no difference in
performance between mag mounts and permanently mounted antennas.However,
I did run across one problem with mag mount antennas:

I found that during the day when the car sat in the parking lot at
work, the snow would sometimes melt allowing a thin film of water to get
trapped under the mag mount.  Then, at night, the water would freeze
which caused the magnet to lose contact (both mechanical and electrical)
with the body of the car.  Mag mount antennas _do not_ work well under
those conditions.

Of course, this is only a problem if you live in a place like NH!

Chet, AA1EX
--
CHESTER S. BOWLES, Vice President, Crotched Mountain Foundation
One Verney Drive, Greenfield, NH 03047   603.547.3311 ext. 404
[e-mail]

Education, rehabilitation, housing, and managed care for children,
adolescents and adults with physical and developmental challenges.
http://www.cmf.org




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.datasync.com!news
From: Kathy J Fain <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: MONEY!!!!FAST!!!!EASY!!!!
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:53:57 -0800
Organization: Datasync Internet
Lines: 144
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: os-ppp12.datasync.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
        boundary="---------------------------4467977332135"
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

-----------------------------4467977332135
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The attached uuencoded file contains complete instructions.  Follow them!
 You will be amazed and VERY pleased with the results.  GO GET IT!!!

kat

-----------------------------4467977332135
Content-Type: application/octet-stream
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="MONEY.UUE"
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-----------------------------4467977332135--



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (Ron Klein )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mosley PRO-67-C  Anyone using this antenna?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:14:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <4b1mmc$[e-mail]>
References: <4ag9e5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-ftc-co1-10.ix.netcom.com

In <4ag9e5$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dave Teague )
writes:

>
>I am considering the Pro-67-c for my new HF antenna.  The antenna is
>24' boom and 111 lbs.  Windload 12.1 sq. ft. and an $1119.95 pricetag.
>Covers 20 thru 10 meters including warc plus 3 elements on 40 meters.
>
>
>It will be installed at about 80 ft.
>
>If anyone is using this antenna please let me know how it performs,
>especially on 40 and 20 meters.
>
>The specs in the Mosley catalog look impressive.
>
>
>
>
>KF5IU  EM31  Jena, LA
>[e-mail]
>
>

I can't speak to the 67-C, but I'm pleased with my 67B which has 2
elements on 40. Mechanical construction is excellent. I've had no wind
problems here in the Colorado front range which is a truly high wind
area.

I'm telling myself that...."no, I really don't need an additional
element on 40", hi.

73,
--
Ron Klein - W0OSK
-----------------
[e-mail]





From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!drivel.ics.uci.edu!ucivax!gateway
From: [e-mail] (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG)
Subject: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Lines: 19
Date: 20 Dec 95 22:59:31 GMT
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17867 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22811

Anyone familiar with these?  I just picked one up at a very good price
and it looks pretty good on the inside.  It covers 80-10 I am told,
and the roller inductor looks right for the job.

Did the UT-2000B cover 160?  If so, did they switch in extra inductance
or add a longer roller inductor?  I would like to add 160 to my UT-2000A
and suspect it is a simple job with a sturdy switch.  Or maybe I can
find the UT-2000B for my 160 antenna :-) .

Also, I think I recall someone on the antenna group stating that the
"ultimate transmatch" design had one of the capacitors doing something
silly....  There is a two ganged capacitor that is doing something
useless?  Just wonder if anyone remembers the comments or has a reference
to it.

Thanks.

Clark
WA3JPG


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Roger A. Cox <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: NEC 4
Date: 19 Dec 1995 18:19:10 GMT
Organization: Telex Communications, Inc.
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <4b6vmu$43d$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>

NEC4PC is NOT NEC-4.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Dan Walker )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas
Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:36:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4bc5vo$[e-mail]>
References: <4b9jgi$[e-mail]> <4bc3e4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd8-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 21  9:36:56 AM PST 1995


I built a PVC crossed dipole satellite antenna from plans in
the Weather Sat. Handbook. It's been up about three years with no
problem.

I also use a piece of 5' PVC mast for my Discone antenna, again
no trouble.

The trick is to give it a good coat of paint, I spray paint mine
black, which gives the added bonus of making it less visible.

73 de KE6LBX




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!prodigy.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Bosbach)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas
Date: 21 Dec 1995 16:53:24 GMT
Organization: Prodigy Services Company  1-800-PRODIGY
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bc3e4$[e-mail]>
References: <4b9jgi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: inugap4.news.prodigy.com
X-Newsreader: Version 1.2

PVC - breakdown in sunlight

Yes it will degrade over time in sunlight, but it takes several years,
even here in the south.  Simple paint (latex) should be enough to keep
the pvc from degrading.  It becomes brittle to the point you can crumble
the thin wall pipe in your hands, but the heavier sched. 40 pipe and
fittings last a good deal longer (many years)  I have used PVC outside in
many situations and will continue to do so.  Caveat - check out the RF
absorbtion if you plan to use it as an insulator at VHF and above.  Stick
your sample in the microwave and see if it gets hot.  The gray stuff
often absorbs a fair amount of RF at microwave freq.
 Steve KG5BR



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.cici.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Peter D.Richeson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad Antenna Design Software?
Date: 19 Dec 1995 02:03:48 GMT
Organization: Starbase1
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <4b56i5$[e-mail]>
References: <4avfkb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: starbase1.cici.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4

In article <4avfkb$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Hello, Folks:
>
>Does anyone know of any easy to use software that does design,
>evaluation, and optimization for quad antennas?
>
>What I am looking for is something like Yagi Max only for quads. I
>have tried several of the NEC programs (PD/Shareware) but they are
>harder to use than just doing the calculations by hand!
>
>I would prefer PD/Shareware programs (for PCs) but would also like
>comments on commercial software.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Marty Albert -- KC6UFM
>
>Marty Albert -- KC6UFM
>


I have used AO for several ant's 3 quads (Have built 2 and both seem to
work) and 3 Jpolls.  The two 2M versions went together with no tweking.  The
440 need some adjusting.

AO is easy to use and it gives you a pix of the ant which is nice.
--
    |      Peter D. Richeson/KA5COI
---+---   [e-mail]
    |       "...There's only one life and when comes the last call
    |       We'll find that the Bible was true after all!" -- Bethany Farms
            ****************************************************
            http://www.cici.com/~richesop



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!svc.portal.com!news1.best.com!shellx.best.com!usenet
From: Danny Goodman <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Question about Sommer vertical antenna
Date: 18 Dec 1995 00:36:27 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4b2d2b$[e-mail]>
References: <4atb5t$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dgoodman.vip.best.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:4atb5t$[e-mail]

[e-mail] (MARKTAINT) wrote:
>I'm interested in comments that anyone has regarding the Sommer HF
>Skydisk. It looks interesting and the price is comparable to other vert.
>antennas.
>Please e-mail or post responses about this antenna.
>
>Thanks very much.
>
>Mark Taintor    N0YRW
>
>[e-mail]

The last time I called them for a spec sheet, it was to go out the following w
eek.  That was sometime in early November.

Danny AE9F/6
http://www.dannyg.com



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!dns.crocker.com!wizard.pn.com!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet
From: charles bolland <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: RADIO STATION DATABASE.ZIP
Date: 19 Dec 1995 13:21:09 GMT
Organization: Florida Internet
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b6e85$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb44.flinet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:67599 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17830 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13224 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22739

Friends,

For those of you that have already received the Radio Station Database Demo, I
 may have typed
a line of the unzip instructions incorrectly.  The correct unziping instructio
ns should read:

PKUNZIP.EXE DATABASE.ZIP C:\DEMO2

If you haven't received the demo database for radio stations yet, send me your
 E-Mail address
and I will send it to you via E-Mail

Chuck Bolland




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!news
From: Ron Dyer <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: RADIO STATION DATABASE.ZIP
Date: 20 Dec 1995 12:21:42 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b8v4m$[e-mail]>
References: <4b6e85$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rdyer.canada.hp.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.shortwave:67640 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17855 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13247 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22795

charles bolland <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Friends,
>
>For those of you that have already received the Radio Station Database Demo,
I may have typed
>a line of the unzip instructions incorrectly.  The correct unziping instructi
ons should read:
>
>PKUNZIP.EXE DATABASE.ZIP C:\DEMO2
>
>If you haven't received the demo database for radio stations yet, send me you
r E-Mail address
>and I will send it to you via E-Mail

Please send copy to [e-mail]



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.westnet.com!westnet.com!lgreco
From: [e-mail] (Luigi Greco)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Rec Info on Bi-Conical antenna's
Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:29:41 GMT
Organization: WestNet Internet Services
Lines: 7
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4b1nil$[e-mail]>
References: <4asvr8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: westnet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Try Kraus's Book "Antennas" or "Antenna Engineering Handbook" edited by
Richard C. Johnson...both published by McGraw-Hill....I think both have
theoretical as well as practical treatment on Biconicals.

Luigi, N2CWV



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:41 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.math.num-analysis,sci.physics.electromag
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!NewsWatcher!user
From: [e-mail] (Henry Baker)
Subject: References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts'
Message-ID: <hbaker-2012952125350001@10.0.2.15>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: nil organization
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:25:35 GMT
Lines: 11
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17883 sci.math.num-analysis:25411 sci.physics.electromag:7334

Does anyone have a reference to the mathematics behind the so-called 'Smith
Charts' used by microwave engineers to match impedences.  They look to me like
stereographic projections of the complex plane, but perhaps someone else knows
a real reference to this mathematical mapping.

If I can't find anything else, I'll look up Smith's original articles, which
I think were published in 1939 and 1945.

--
www/ftp directory:
ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/hb/hbaker/home.html


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news
From: "Keith W. Whites" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,sci.math.num-analysis,sci.physics.electromag
Subject: Re: References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts'
Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:35:29 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4bc5t1$[e-mail]>
References: <hbaker-2012952125350001@10.0.2.15>
NNTP-Posting-Host: whites.ee.engr.uky.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:hbaker-2012952125350001@10.0.2.15
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17899 sci.math.num-analysis:25417 sci.physics.electromag:7340

[e-mail] (Henry Baker) wrote:
>Does anyone have a reference to the mathematics behind the so-called 'Smith
>Charts' used by microwave engineers to match impedences.  They look to me lik
e
>stereographic projections of the complex plane, but perhaps someone else know
s
>a real reference to this mathematical mapping.

Actually, the Smith Chart is simply a bilinear transformation.  These types of

transformations map circles in one plane into circles in another plane.  Lines
 are
just special cases of a circle -- i.e., degenerate circles.  This bilinear
tranformation maps normalized total impedance (admittance) on the TL into the
complex
generalized reflection coefficient plane.

>If I can't find anything else, I'll look up Smith's original articles, which
>I think were published in 1939 and 1945.

That's correct.  I'm fortunate enough to own one of the original 1945 copies w
hich is
the "revised" Smith Chart.  But most introductory EM or transmission line text
s have
a reasonable discussion on the topic.  See for example the text by Paul and Na
sar
"Introduction to Electromagnetic Fields."

______________________________________________________________________
Keith W. Whites                            e-mail: [e-mail]
Assistant Professor
Department of Electrical Engineering       Tele: [phone]
University of Kentucky                     FAX:  [phone]
453 Anderson Hall
Lexington, KY  40506-0046




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!intac!njmug!Bill_F._Thornton
From: [e-mail] (Bill F. Thornton)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Distribution: world
Subject: REPOST: Rodelvox Ant. Multiplier
Date: 17 Dec 1995 17:36:56 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: New Jersey Macintosh Users Group
Lines: 11


Can anyone here advise me if the Antenna Multiplier (TM) by Rodelvox, a
reception booster for VHF & UHF TV Channels; and AM, FM and Shortwave Radio
reception as advertised in the New York Times for $30 US is any good. I'll be
using them for a listed applications.

Thanks. Bill

  /-/      NJMUG  BBS      \-\    New Jersey Macintosh Users Group    /-/
 /-/      908.388.1676      \-\     http://www.intac.com/njmug/      /-/
/-/  (28.8K) FirstClass BBS  \-\      <mailto:[e-mail]>       /-/


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ios.com!news
From: RobertStansberry <rls3@198.4.75.47>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: scanner freq.listings on cd roms
Date: 20 Dec 1995 04:11:05 GMT
Organization: Internet Online Services
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4b82cp$[e-mail]>
References: <4atcpd$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-13.ts-2.hp.idt.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit)

GROVE  1-800-438-8155



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!io.org!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!gasco!nntp.teleport.com!ip-vanc2-19
From: [e-mail] (John D. Rhodes)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Sparkgap lightning protector
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 05:39:44 GMT
Organization: Teleport - Portland's Public Access [phone]
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <4b2uuu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-vanc2-19.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

I was given a spark gap lightning protector which comes from
WW-II communications equipment.  I'd appreciate some
thoughts about how the configuration works, and how best to
install it.

The newly acquired spark gap consists of two identical units
mounted on a sheetmetal bracket.  This assembly pair is
apparently for ladder line.  There are 3 electrodes (I'll call them
A, B, and C) in each gap unit which I will now describe:

Electrode A is at ground potential -- being fastened to the metal
mounting bracket. The electrode shaft diameter is about .125
inches.  The business end of the electrode is tapered to about
080 inches with a 30 degree included angle.  The end of the
electrode is faced off square, much like a sparkplug center
electrode.

Electrode B faces electrode A, lies on the same axis, and is
otherwise identical to electrode A.  The gap between these two
is about .125 inches.  Electrode B apparently was connected to
the feedline.  The knurled brass head of the 3/8-24 screw which
contains the steel electrode is drilled for a banana plug.

Electrode C's axis is at right angle to A and B, and the electrode
shaft terminates in a needle point (~ 22 degree apex angle).
The tip of this needle point is spaced about .010 inches from
terminal B electrode shaft, and lies about .030 inches from B's
shaft tip.  There is no provision for electrical connection to
electrode C; it apparently floated in the micarta (?) mounting
block.

My guess is that electrode C serves as an igniter for the main
gap.  There should be 10-20 pf capacitance between it and the
grounded bracket.  The ion cloud produced when a discharge
occurs across the B-C gap (.010 inch) would quickly expand,
providing a low impedence path for the main discharge across
the A-B gap.  Does this sound correct?

My station uses a fan dipole (2  parallel dipoles separated by 3"
cut for 80 and 40 meters up 65 feet suspended between two 150
foot fir trees) fed with window line.  I have a Johnson Viking
Matchbox (250 watt), and a Heathkit HM2140 (dual meter)
SWR/power bridge.  The transceiver is a Kenwood TS-520S
(~100 watts output).

As to installation and application to my system -- I expect Gary
Kauffman will have some cogent obervations.  But here's
something to ponder:  during a recent electrical storm, I heard
arcing inside the Johnson Matchbox.  What I found was that the
antenna coil -- which is hooked to the feedline, and is _not_
grounded anywhere -- was arcing to ground.  (I have a healthy
triple #6 ground line connected to three 6-foot ground rods.  This
ground system connects to all system components, including the
Matchbox).

What surprised me, however, was the damage this arcing
caused to my Kenwood transceiver; there was no _direct_ arc
connection, but the di/dt was sufficient to induce a damaging
voltage in the Matchbox link (coil) which connects to the
transceiver; this took out the front-end MOSFET.

My fix was a crude sparkgap to ground on each side of the
ladderline.  In addition, I shunted (paralleled) each gap with a 1
meg resistor to bleed off the accumulating static charge I had
observed during the storm.  This appears to work well.
Questions:  Is this a good design?  Should I consider a similar
arrangement with the newly-acquired sparkgap?


John D. Rhodes - AA7HL
Vancouver, WA
[e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:46 1995
From: [e-mail] (Rick Ruhl)
Subject: Stuff to build YAGI's with.
Date: 19 Dec 95 00:08:33 -0800
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 15

Fellow hams:

Can anyone give me advice on where to find the following parts.  I'm
trying to build a 20 meter short yagi from the 1978 handbook, and no
one seems to know what I'm talking about or where I can get it.

1. 1-1/8 in dia Plexiglas rod (for winding the coils on) sources or
1995-96 options are appreciated.

2. 140 pf Variable Capacitor or a 1995-6 equvilant.

Once I build this beam, I hope to publish an article on it, in which
other hams with limited space can build this also.

Ricker


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:47 1995
From: [e-mail] (Rick Ruhl)
Subject: Re: Stuff to build YAGI's with.
Date: 21 Dec 95 16:16:36 -0800
References: <[e-mail]> <4b9dl8$[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 5

Steve:

That would have been my first choice (a hamfest) but it's not hamfest
season.  It'll be March/April before the hamfest's start again.



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas
From: [e-mail] (Bob Tomas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: terminating radial to home plumbing; crossing radials
Date: 20 Dec 1995 17:35:34 GMT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4b9hh6$[e-mail]>
References: <4b194o$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu

(1) I am installing some additional radials on my ground mounted vertical
antenna system and am thinking about attaching the end of one to the
home plumbing.  The pipes are all copper.


I am concerned that this might not be such a good idea since it is a
two story house and there are pipes that run vertically located about
30 feet from the antenna.  Their lengths are about 5 feet less than
the antenna's length.

My suspision is that this is a "try it and see what happens" type of
problem but I am interested in hearing from operators who might like
to comment.

(2) I heard that it is not a good idea to cross radials.  Is this
true?

bob


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: test
Date: 18 Dec 95 12:52:51 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

test


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:50 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (LScottH)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: The Best Wire Antenna
Date: 17 Dec 1995 09:23:20 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 12
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4b194o$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi All:
I've been reading this group for a month or so now and thought I'd start a
new thread.

The Best Wire Antenna I Ever Made.  How's that for a title?
Anyway,  I'll dig in my files and pull out the best wire antenna designs
I've personally made and used.  A diagram to make it clear, a few
important numbers, and a critigue of proformance.  What I don't want, and
I don't think anybody wants, is to be refered to a text book design you've
never built or worked with.   Personal experience only, please.  Thanks
for reading and we'll see you down the log.
DE KA0DAQ   aka  [e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:51 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1!ts01-ind-20
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Croft)
Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ts01-ind-20.iquest.net
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Organization: IQuest Network Services
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1
References: <4b194o$[e-mail]>
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 16:36:49 GMT
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (LScottH) wrote:
>Hi All:
>I've been reading this group for a month or so now and thought I'd start a
>new thread.
>
>The Best Wire Antenna I Ever Made.  How's that for a title?
>Anyway,  I'll dig in my files and pull out the best wire antenna designs
>I've personally made and used.  A diagram to make it clear, a few
>important numbers, and a critigue of proformance.  What I don't want, and
>I don't think anybody wants, is to be refered to a text book design you've
>never built or worked with.   Personal experience only, please.  Thanks
>for reading and we'll see you down the log.
>DE KA0DAQ   aka  [e-mail]

OK - one I'll put near the top in terms of return on investment (due to ease o
f installing and performance) , is the lil' half-square.
Simple quarter wave verticals operating half wave seperation, simple #12 insul
ated wire, simple corner fed (no baluns, no fancy
'isolators', etc),  about 4db gain broadside signal.
On 40, these compete (or BEAT!) my 2 element yagi's  varied between 60-90'.
One caution - insulated wire tends to have a lower
freq res. than the published formulas.

I'm planning on installing a 160 meter haf square next, as will finally have t
wo towers high enough to handle!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!

WB9IQI


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!atha!rwa
From: [e-mail] (Ross Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna
Date: 19 Dec 1995 17:47:35 GMT
Organization: Athabasca University
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4b6trn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4b5akt$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: aupair.cs.athabascau.ca
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #10 (NOV)

The best wire antenna I ever built was an 8-element sterba curtain cut
for 20m operation.  We hung it between a couple of big trees for a
Field Day operation and it gave us an absolutely thundering signal.
It's a great FD design since it only needs two supports and gives
buckets (about 7 or 8 dBd) of gain.  It's also a great match to 450
ohm line, we fed it through a 9:1 guanella balun at the transmitter
and it was essentially flat across the entire band.

regards,
Ross ve6pdq

--
Ross Alexander, ve6pdq  --  [phone]  --  [e-mail]


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Dan Walker )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: TVI situation. Suggestions?
Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:28:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <4bc5fo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd8-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 21  9:28:24 AM PST 1995


Anyone like to solve TVI puzzles?

My xmtr runs 100 watts and I have two antennas, a Hustler vertical and
a dipole fed with ladder line.

Ladder line and coax are fed to an MFJ Versa Tuner II.

I get TVI on both antenna on all bands, most severe on 40m and least
severe on 20m.

The TV's (with VCRs) have high pass filters.

The xmtr has low pass filter.

No TVI at all running into a dummy load.

Everything is grounded and I have a ground counterpoise wires for the
bands I use running from the tuner chassis.

CLUE:

The severe TVI used to be on 20m with almost NO TVI on 40m (on the
vertical), but the situation reversed itself when I went to the roof
and tighted the bolts holding the ground radials.

Because I get no TVI on a dummy load, can I rule out any radiation from
cabinets, cables, connectors and the tuner?

If so, then the TVI has got to be mechanical in the radial system of
the vertical, but that doesn't explain the TVI on the dipole. The
dipole does pass very close to the radials of the vertical, so could
the radials be picking up signals from the dipole and radiating them
mechanicly?

Both feedlines pass close to a gutter, the coax touches the gutter, but
the ladder line does not.


My radials are mounted to the Hustler by a loop of wire on each radial,
with one bolt and washer put over the whole thing. Should I solder them
all together with a washer on one end?


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

73 de Dan, KE6LBX


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TVI situation. Suggestions?
Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:48:22 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bca5m$[e-mail]>
References: <4bc5fo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bc5fo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail](Dan
Walker ) writes:

>
>Anyone like to solve TVI puzzles?
>
>
Hi Dan,

First of all describe the TVI. Is it on all channels, or on one or two?
What channels?

The rig has a low pass, what type?

What type of hi-pass?

Do you have common mode chokes?

Is the TV on cable or an antenna?

Did you disconnect the VCR's and related stuff and only try the TV?

From the information you gave, any answer would be a guess. Tell us more
details!

73 Tom


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!NewsWatcher!user
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Un francΘs estß buscando contacto
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 14:10:39 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <estrella-2012951410390001@128.125.62.135>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: catalog10.usc.edu
Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43405 soc.culture.uruguay:4704 soc.culture.spain:83932 soc.culture.peru:11097 soc.culture.mexican.american:7911 soc.culture.latin-america:39945 soc.culture.ecuador:4286 soc.culture.cuba:32001 soc.culture.colombia:12617 soc.culture.chile:32508 soc.culture.bolivia:10803 soc.culture.argentina:29112 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32273 rec.radio.amateur.misc:95840 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12265 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22806 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13254 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17862

In article <[e-mail]>, Philippe CUVINOT
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hola,
>
> Soy francΘs y estoy buscando a amigos para conversar acerca de temas
> latino americanos. Me interesa muchφsimo la cultura precolombina y
> estoy realizando una pßgina a prop≤sito de las grandes civilizaciones.
> Escribanme para darme ideas interesantes. Gracias.
> Hasta pronto, Philippe.

Hola Philippe,

   Yo soy frances tambien, y vivo en Los Angeles, California. Trabajo como
bibliotecario especializado en literatura mexicana y centro americana, en
la University of Southern California. Me gustaria conversar contigo en
cualquier idioma (espanol, frances, ingles) y ayudarte. Aqui en el sur de
la California hay mucha gente de habla hispana y muchas organizaciones
culturales : mexicanas, salvadorenas, hondurenas......bueno una fuente muy
larga de posibilidades. Puedes usar mi correo electronico directamente

[e-mail]

espero hablar contigo muy pronto!  gracias

JEAN-LUC


JEAN-LUC ESTRELLA
DOHENY MEMORIAL LIBRARY
UNIVERSITY PARK CAMPUS
LOS ANGELES, CA, 90089
U.S.A.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.compuserve.com!newsmaster
From: [e-mail] (Ken Meinken)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: un-guyed masts
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 05:56:52 GMT
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <4basuk$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ad34-145.compuserve.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Jack Ray) wrote:

>I am interested in knowing what options are available for use as un-guyed
>antenna supports. I want to elevate a VHF antenna such as the MFJ 5/8 wave
>ground plane as high as possile, but my wife does not want a web of guy
>wires above the house. I have heard that people use solid fiberglass poles
>and that these are hard to break but quite whippy. Where does on buy
>these, how long is practical and what do they cost?

>What about hollow fiberglass poles? I am thinking of something like a
>pole-vaulting blank. Would these not be stiffer than a solid pole but
>still quite strong?

>What about aluminum poles?  How tall could a 1.5▓ un-guyed aluminum be and
>still give reasonable wind performance?

>Finally, what about a wooden mast made of ash?

>Other suggestions?

>Thanks,

>Jack
>N╪ZKA

Jack,

one option that I know works is a 20 ft 6x6 of treated lumber
(available from some lumber yards).  I then have two ten ft sections
of tv mast on top of that and then an extended Ringo Ranger.  Total of
40' plus antenna.  Bottom 2.5-3' in the ground.  Been up 8 or 9 years
in two different locations and holds up very well.

If you can't find a solid 6x6, you could bolt some 2x6s together.

I wouldn't go with something like ash because it will not hold up as
long as treated pine. And it would be a lot more expensive (gee, as a
woodworker, I can't even fathom the price of a good 6"x6"x20' ash
pole!)

73, Ken




From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Dan Walker )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?
Date: 20 Dec 1995 23:49:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4ba7f7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd11-12.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Dec 20  3:49:59 PM PST 1995


I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the
shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to
the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI.

What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack
which is 75ohms (i think)

Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit?

73 de KE6LBX


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:25:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn
From: Jim Fellows <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?
Date: 21 Dec 1995 02:17:12 GMT
Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos.
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4bag38$[e-mail]>
References: <4ba7f7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22)
X-URL: news:4ba7f7$[e-mail]

[e-mail](Dan Walker ) wrote:
>
>I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the
>shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to
>the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI.
>
>What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack
>which is 75ohms (i think)
>
>Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit?
>
>73 de KE6LBX

Impedence matching in a discone can be done by varying the angle of the skirt.
For 50 ohms the angle is 60 degrees, I will need to look up what it should be
for 75 ohms assuming you're using coax.

But if you have a pre-made discone, then the mismatch will only result in a
nominal 1.5:1 VSWR (the SWR for 75 - 50 ohm mismatch).

This should not make a much difference for a TV receiving antenna.

Jim


--
"It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear", Norm Peterson.
The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!!
Green Acres *IS* the place to be!                           [e-mail]



From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:26:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!clio.trends.ca!io.org!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.cais.net!news.cais.com!cais3.cais.com!gttm
From: USCG TELECOMMS <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Wrist rocket
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:05:46 -0500
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service [e-mail] 703-448-4470
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4avpqv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cais3.cais.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <4avpqv$[e-mail]>


On 17 Dec 1995, Dave Pascoe KM3T wrote:

> I'm looking for sources for Whammo Wrist Rockets......the slingshot
> which is useful for launching wires up over trees.
>
K-Mart, Walmart, Sports Authority.  In some states these sling shots are
illegal (or used to be) such as in NJ.  I've been using one for years
with a side-mounted casting reel; it sure beats unrolling and rolling
fishing line.  I also use 15# monofilament with a one-ounce egg sinker.


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:26:01 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cornellcs!rochester!news.csug.rochester.edu!rit!sunsrvr6!jdc
From: [e-mail] (James D. Cronin)
Subject: Re: Wrist rocket
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Operator)
Organization: Northern Telecom, Network Application Systems
References: <4avpqv$[e-mail]> <4b1imb$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:13:01 GMT
Lines: 6


Any mail order places carry wrist rockets?  They were illegal in
New York State last I heard.  It happened in the early 80's.
I have an assult slingshot that predates the law.

73..Jim  N2VNO


From Unknown Thu Dec 21 20:26:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help greenhorn with mfj+longwire"
Date: 19 Dec 95 06:11:52 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "greenhorn" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (set 'read-message-folder')
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 23 Dec 95 05:15:10 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

subscribe Amateur <Lee Hutchison> [[e-mail]]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.jsums.edu!despina.neptune.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 25 Dec 95 09:05:38 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]



Help on Diffraction loss calculation
Can somebody shoot me the formulas and/or basic algorithms
for Diffraction over obstacles and irregular terrain
radio path loss calculation?
Any relating computer basic program known?
Your assistance is much appreciated!
Thanks, Danilo +


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Jim Lill)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (none)
Date: 25 Dec 95 16:45:42 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

To: [e-mail] (Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup)
Subject: VOACAP antenna files
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Does anyone know of a site that has additional antennas files that could
be used in VOACAP ?

TIA and Happy Holidays!

-Jim WA2ZKD  [e-mail]




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!maw.montana.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Dave and Rox)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: (Q) Broadband directional ant published in HAM RADIO
Date: 27 Dec 1995 19:53:12 GMT
Organization: Internet Connect Services
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4bs878$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ptm23.montana.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6+

        I'm looking for information on an antenna written up in one of
the last issues of Ham Radio Magazine.  I recall the article was written
by a German author, and the antenna had a German sounding name (therefore,
I don't remember).

        The antenna was a heart shaped directional with a 10 to 1 band-
width.  It could be constructed from foil and mounted on plexiglass.  The
heart shape was split in two (right and left), and the feed was on the
bottom where the two pieces come to a point.  Radiation was opposite
the feed.

        What I dont remember are the formulas, etc. that were included
in the article.

        If anybody is familiar with this design, or has old issues of
Ham Radio Magazine and can look this up I would appriciate whatever
assistance.  I would also be willing to pay for copying cost if the
article is located.

Dave - N7MJW.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwgw.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: [e-mail] (Brian Buydens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2M FM Antenna
Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:35:56 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4bp89c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Awhile back I posted an article seeking advice on building a 2M vertical
antenna out of a car antenna.  I built the antenna and thought people might
be interested in the results.

I went to a wrecking yard and found a telescoping antenna 54" long and without
a cable.  The antenna cost $8 Cdn. (Ones with cables are more expensive but
I didn't want the cable anyway.)  Then I bought an RG-58 cable ready made
($15 Cdn. which is a bit overpriced but I was feeling lazy).  I built an
antenna mount from wood and placed the antenna on the roof of my car.  Then I
set the antenna length to 49" (roughly 5/8 lambda).

I don't have an SWR meter but if using the antenna is any test ;-) I am quite
pleased with the results.  I am able to access almost all of the repeaters
within a 30 mile (50 km) radius of my place with only using 4W of power.

Once again thanks to all of you who gave me advice.  BTW does anyone have
suggestions on simple SWR/Directional Wattmeters I could build (preferably
one that will work on both 2 and 20 meters)?

73

--
Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 90 ohm cable on 300 ohm antenna
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 22:32:56 GMT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4beib0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12344 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17955

   [e-mail] (Loren Coe) wrote:

>i am experimenting with connecting a 90ohm coax directly to a 300ohm
>fm antenna.

I would use a 300 ohm to 75 ohm transformer at the center of the
antenna (the type sold for use with 300 ohm TV antennas at Radio
Shack).  They cost less than $3.00 and the mismatch between the
90 ohm coax and the 75 ohm input to the transformer will be
insignificant in terms of receive efficiency.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nntp.crl.com!crl2.crl.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Donald J. Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: 90 ohm cable on 300 ohm antenna
Followup-To: rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Date: 23 Dec 1995 05:44:57 -0800
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access        [phone]  [Login: guest]
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4bh14p$[e-mail]>
References: <4beib0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crl2.crl.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12349 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17960

Loren Coe ([e-mail]) wrote:
: matching xfmr.  my application is receiving stock quotes on SSB in an

SSB?  Surely you mean SCA...




--
-------------------------------------------------
Don Miller
[e-mail]
-------------------------------------------------


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Homebrew Hardline?
Date: 22 Dec 1995 10:11:34 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 10
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4behr6$[e-mail]>
References: <4bd9n2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bd9n2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary V.
Deutschmann, Sr.) writes:

> Even when I use Belden 9913, I use a flameless blowtorch to
>heat the coax as hot as I dare and then seal the ends with potting
>material before installing the connector.
>
>

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gte.net!news
From: "Adam G. Lottes" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: [Q] Homebrew Hardline?
Date: 25 Dec 1995 16:55:08 GMT
Organization: GTE Intelligent Network Services, GTE INS
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4bml1c$[e-mail]>
References: <4asvei$[e-mail]> <4bc60t$[e-mail]> <4bd9n2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dfw70005.gte.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22KIT (Windows; U; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

The formula from the ARRL Antenna Book is Z=276log2S/d where Z=line impedance,
 S=ceter to center
distance between conductors, and d=outer diameter of inner conductor in same u
nits as S.For
example a 3/4 in copper pipe with a 5/16 inner conductor = ~ 51ohms.

I just built the VHF directional coupler from the antenna book.  Works great a
nd the formula
verified their dimensios are correct.

Don't think I'd want to try building 50ohm hardline though. Good luck on your
project

George NF9D



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: [Q]: Diffraction loss calculation?
Date: 25 Dec 95 16:04:46 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Can somebody shoot me the formulas and/or basic algorithms
for Diffraction over obstacles and irregular terrain
radio path loss calculation?
Any relating computer basic program known?
Your assistance is much appreciated!
Thanks, Danilo +


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 23 Dec 1995 12:37:48 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4bgt6s$[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]> <4aheeb$[e-mail]> <4b38ks$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1303.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

>>We all have found that the ground system is very important. How the
>>ground is done, elevated or buried, seems to make little or no
>>difference. But the amount of wire you can put in for a ground is
>>very important, plus keeping the antenna in the clear if you can.
>
>If these wires were simply laid on top of the ground and connected
>together, how important is it that they actually be grounded?  I can't
>imagine one or two ground rods doing much good.  Is it the electrical
>mass that provides the improvement, or its potential with respect to
>ground (or both)?
>73,
>Jack  WB3U

Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod is
only for lightning protection, and the wires only need be connected
together at the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedline). I think it's
desireable  to leave the insulation on the wire as opposed to bare wire,
too, so they look like 1/4 wavelength counterpoise. Maybe someone can
share the technical aspects of this. I'm building an inverted L for 160
and have no plans to drive more than one ground stake, and am using
insulated wire for the ground system.

73 de Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 23 Dec 1995 09:26:33 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 37
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bh3ip$[e-mail]>
References: <4bgt6s$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bgt6s$[e-mail]>, Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
writes:

>Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod is
>only for lightning protection, and the wires only need be connected
>together at the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedline). I think it's
>desireable  to leave the insulation on the wire as opposed to bare wire,
>too, so they look like 1/4 wavelength counterpoise. Maybe someone can
>share the technical aspects of this. I'm building an inverted L for 160
>and have no plans to drive more than one ground stake, and am using
>insulated wire for the ground system.
>
>73 de Dave Hockaday

Hi Dave,

We're hashing that over in the drifty Doty thread. I say drifty because
the thread name keeps changing. The popular opinion by people skilled in
EM theory is the insulation is a waste of time, and insulated radial
measurements and conclusions were totally meaningless.

Looking at it with common sense, what difference will a few hundredth's of
an inch of insulation make on a wire dozens or hundreds of feet long
buried in dirt or laying on the ground. Do we think insulating the wire in
an antenna "stops" or really changes anything in the system except at dc??


If we wanted to shield a wire carrying common mode RF from it's
surroundings would we just insulate it? Of course not! The only real
solution is physically moving the wires a long distance from the lossy
media.

We would be better off to hang a rabbits foot from the antenna for good
luck. The improvement would be more reliable than just insulating the
radials.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 25 Dec 1995 01:53:32 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4bl06s$[e-mail]>
References: <4af2oq$[e-mail]> <4aheeb$[e-mail]> <4b38ks$[e-mail]> <4bgt6s$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1509.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)


Ho-Ho-Ho, heehee...boy did I ever botch this reply up. I didn't
communicate my thoughts very well, but here's another attempt...


>Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod
                                            ^^^^^^^^^
(oops, that was supposed to be ground rod)

>is only for lightning protection, and the wires only need be connected
>together at the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedline). I think it's
>desireable  to leave the insulation on the wire as opposed to bare wire,
>too, so they look like 1/4 wavelength counterpoise. Maybe someone can
>share the technical aspects of this. I'm building an inverted L for 160
>and have no plans to drive more than one ground stake, and am using
>insulated wire for the ground system.
>73 de Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
>[e-mail]


73 es Happy Holidays!





From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!castle.nando.net!news
From: Dave Hockaday <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on inverted-L antennas
Date: 25 Dec 1995 02:02:23 GMT
Organization: News & Observer Public Access
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4bl0nf$[e-mail]>
References: <4bgt6s$[e-mail]> <4bh3ip$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: grail1509.nando.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)


>Hi Dave,
>We're hashing that over in the drifty Doty thread. I say drifty because

Cool, I'll pay attention and learn something :-).


>Looking at it with common sense, what difference will a few hundredth's of
>an inch of insulation make on a wire dozens or hundreds of feet long
>buried in dirt or laying on the ground. Do we think insulating the wire in
>an antenna "stops" or really changes anything in the system except at dc??


WOW!...I've never thought of it that way, but I see your point. Antenna
design is a topic I've only recently taken an interest in, but find very
interesting.

Happy Holidays de Dave Hockaday
[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!world!mv!barney.gvi.net!redstone.interpath.net!cphillips
From: [e-mail] (Curt Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Advice on radials sought - Couterpoises and ground Radials ?
Date: 22 Dec 1995 23:11:29 GMT
Organization: Phillips Technicon
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4bfh9t$[e-mail]>
References: <30c94b2c.3749917@137.149.3.1> <4accp8$[e-mail]> <mike_cash-1312950830190001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cphillips.pdial.interpath.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

In article <mike_cash-1312950830190001@cash_mike.chinalake.navy.mil>,
   [e-mail] (Mike, KN6IS) wrote:
>Snip;
>The trend to rely on computer modeling started in the 60's and continues
>to grow.  So much so, that in some cases we rely totally on the model and
>simulation to give us the truth with minimal or no validation of the
>data.  Sometimes with devastating results.  Again, it is a cost and
>schedule issue.
[snip]
>I vote that we form an International team of verification and validation
>antenna computer model "experts".  Our goal, to verify and validate ham
>antenna computer models.  I also vote Tom as our leader.  Good luck Tom
>and thanks for keeping us honest.

  You'd better watch out!  Quite a few antenna manufacturers might pool
their money and pay for a hit man.  They don't WANT to be kept "honest",
they want to keep quoting mythical gain figures.

========= Opinions expressed are solely those of the author ============
Curt Phillips, KD4YU (ex-WB4LHI)      | "I don't want to achieve
[e-mail]               |immortality through my work.  I
Chairman, Tarheel Scanner/SWL Group   |want to achieve immortality through
ARRL Life; QCWA; Raleigh ARS; NRA     |NOT DYING."   -- Woody Allen


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:27 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Advice on radials so
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 95 08:36:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 47

WW> Maybe it's my imagination, but it sure seems as though my signal
WW> reports go down when the ground freezes.  Is this a known phenomenon
WW> or am I just experiencing changes in band conditions?  I've never
WW> noticed this before, but then, I lived most of my life in Texas.
WW> The only thing I had to worry about there was the insulation
WW> dripping off the wires in the summer.  ;)

Jack,
It's conditions.  80M has been going through some weird
conditions for the past few weeks.  The Arctic areas of
Europe (northern Finland, for example) have been coming
through as late as our sunrise.  I haven't see that
condition in years.  Skip has been very long in the
evening.  I have a schedule with a friend in NH and
sometimes can not copy him in the evening--not a peep--
though I have had W4's call me to tell me my friend
is calling me.

I don't think frozen ground has anything to do with it.
I have measured my antenna's self-impedance in all kinds
of weather at all seasons and find no differences.  At
the moment the ground screen is covered with a foot of
snow, including the base of the vertical and no effects
on the self-impedance are seen.  80M and 160M RF penetration
into the ground is measured in feet, so it would take
some great change in the ground conductivity and permitivity
to see the effect.

As to the snow around the base of the vertical, so long
as it is freshly fallen it is a near perfect insulator.
But with the passage of some time that will change; it
will pick up carbon dioxide, for instance, and become
slightly acidic.  Then I'll have to go out there and
clear it away. ;-)

BTW, if you're new to this part of the East Coast, between
now and end of January we get openings long path at
sunset to the Far East on 80M.  I have worked Thailand,
and Indonesia that way--being unable to do it in the
morning.  Lots of JA's come thru.  The openings usually
last from 5 to 20 minutes and sometimes the signals
get up to s9!  If you're not familiar--the SSB dx window
is 3785 to 3800 kHz.

73,  --k2bt

 * RM 1.3 02583 * Whom gods would destroy, they first teach Win95.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nwlink.com!port8
From: [e-mail] (Peter Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: am radio antennas
Date: 24 Dec 1995 22:16:48 GMT
Organization: Northwest Link
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4bk95p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port8.annex3.nwlink.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

        Why do manufacturers (surprisingly of high cost entertainment centers)
continue to make receivers that do SO poorly with AM? It seems the older the
radio, the better the AM sound, sensitivity and interference rejection.
        Also, the magnetic bar antenna has got to go!!!!! Put a rod on the
things for God sakes! Whose idea was that????


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!intac!usenet
From: Mark Herson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna question
Date: 26 Dec 1995 14:48:17 GMT
Organization: INTAC Access Corporation - An Internet Service Provider
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <4bp1vh$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hudson.intac.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Steve Schack) wrote:

>At a cabin in Grand Marais MN I have one of those combo CD, tape and
>AM-FM radios with a single element extension antenna.
>
>The only FM station I can get with any degree of relaibility is from
>Ironwood Michigan 90 miles SSE across Lake Superior. Thunder Bay (60
>miles) uh-uh, nothing. Duluth, nope. I fastened an 8"x4" piece of 1/2"
>hardware cloth to the antenna to "help". Not much difference.  AM sounds
>like a car radio back in the 50's fade in, fade out.
>
>Is there any way I can put up a bow-tie type FM antenna, on coax, maybe
>with an amplifier and some how hook up to some internal connection? Like
>unsolder the connection for the extension antenna and hook up an
>external antenna?  Any problems or limitations with this idea? I'm
>looking for ideas, I'd like something other than a single station.
>Thanks for any help.

You could probably do all that but it sounds like a lot of work. BTW, you
don't want a bow-tie antenna but rather a Yagi type of antenna with a lot
of elements to give you gain. You also want to use low-loss coax for a
feedline from the antenna to the radio.

One other thing you can try without going outside is to get a different
radio - one made for broadcast dx. The GE SupeRadio III will cost you $50
I'm told and has gotten some good comments from the swl crowd. There's
not too much you can do about the am fading except to get a bigger
antenna, either a long wire or a loop. However, the distortion on deep
fades can be overcome only by getting a radio with a synchronous am
detector. Sony, Grundig and others make reasonably priced radios with
that feature built in. Of course, if you want to spend more $$, then you
can graduate to the Drake SW-8 category or even the R-8a, hi!

--
73, Mark, N2MH

http://www.intac.com/~mherson/




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!ender.techcenter.paccar.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Michael A. Sterba)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: antenna question
Date: 26 Dec 1995 13:53:06 GMT
Organization: OES Skagit County WA.
Lines: 19
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bouo2$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kg7hq.paccar.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4

Hello Steve,

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
says...
>Is there any way I can put up a bow-tie type FM antenna, on coax, maybe
>with an amplifier and some how hook up to some internal connection? Like
>unsolder the connection for the extension antenna and hook up an
>external antenna?  Any problems or limitations with this idea? I'm
>looking for ideas, I'd like something other than a single station.
>Thanks for any help.

When putting up your FM aentenna you might want to looking into a TV antenna o
n a
rotor and try in at various heights above ground. You might find that you'll b
e able to
recieve the signals better at 10', catching a ground wave, than at 100'. I had
 the same
problem in when I lived in WI.
--
                "Handcrafted From The Finest ASCII"
73's de KG7HQ



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!lily.redrose.net!john
From: Curt Sanders <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ANTTRON Antennas
Date: 24 Dec 1995 05:44:53 GMT
Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4bipcl$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: l15.redrose.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna

Anttron antennas, Youngstown, OH. I need a URL for them! I need to replace a w
hip asap!
Thanks in advance.

********************************************************
* "There is nothing constant but change." ï Heraclitus *
*                        ---                           *
*     [e-mail] (Amateur Radio)    *
* Reunion Users Group (genealogy) * Hershey Apple Core *
********************************************************




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!lily.redrose.net!john
From: Curt Sanders <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Anttron Antennas
Date: 27 Dec 1995 04:25:56 GMT
Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4bqhsk$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: l32.redrose.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna#4bmkv2$[e-mail]

Anybody have an address of Anttron Antennas of Youngstown, OH? Looking to repl
ace an antenna element.

********************************************************
* "There is nothing constant but change." ï Heraclitus *
*                        ---                           *
*     [e-mail] (Amateur Radio)    *
* Reunion Users Group (genealogy) * Hershey Apple Core *
********************************************************




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.onramp.net!dal32.onramp.net!user
From: [e-mail] (cleve e massey)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ARTIFICIAL GROUND
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 22:49:05 -0600
Organization: On-Ramp; Individual Internet Connections; Dallas/Ft Worth/Houston, TX USA
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dal32.onramp.net

OK...since the ground is essentially half the antenna system, thought this
the best place to post a question...

Can't figure out a way to get any kind of real earth ground conneced to
the HF rig...are the artificial grounds any good...

Looked at the MFJ and then read that the new Ten-Tec kit folks have a kit
version...that would probably be more fun as I would get to build
something...

Any and all comments would be appreciated...

pse e-mail direct...

txn...cleve wd5bor


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:34 1995
From: [e-mail] (Doug Reed)
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Backpackable 2m homebrew?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 07:25:11 -0100
X-FTN-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 60

BA>From: <[e-mail]>
BA>Hello all, I am looking for a "simple" and I stress simple
BA>design for a quick and dirty 2 meter yagi.  2-5 elements
BA>nothing really fancy just enough to get a decent signal
BA>out using a handheld.  .................
BA>Thanks,   J   N1RWY

I really don't have any specific design info for you but I highly
recommend the "Arrow" antenna design published in 73 Magazine about 3
years ago.  It was a simple 4 element beam built on a 1" aluminum boom
and used aluminum arrow (archery) shafts as elements bolted thru the
boom with 8-32 screws.  The whole antenna came apart and stored in the
boom. With a couple rubber crutch tips on the end of the boom it could
be used for a walking stick. I believe Antennas West is selling the same
antenna design, with a couple years of small improvements.  If you don't
have a good assortment of tools, just buy the antenna; you'll save more
in time than you'd otherwise save by buying materials.

If you are going to build the antenna, the final design depends on what
materials you are using.  If you don't use the same diameter boom,
elements and mounting, the published dimensions will be wrong.  I built
an antenna based on the "Arrow" design.  But I had 3/4" square tubing
and 5/16" elements rather than 1" tubing and 1/4" elements.  I used one
of the computer antenna design programs to tweak the element lengths and
spacing to match my materials and built the antenna.  The final antenna
doesn't store as neatly as the original design but I already had the
materials.  I've used it during the VHF contests and verified is has
good gain and a very nice null off the back of the beam.  But again, the
exact design depends on YOUR materials and how you mount them.

Another quick option I've seen was just adding a couple elements on a
boom to a J-pole antenna.  Build the J-Pole out of the usual 1/2" or
3/4" pipe.  Then add a stop about 1/4 wavelength (19") down from the
top. Use a wood dowel or plastic pipe as a boom that slips over the
J-pole vertical and mount a director and reflector to the boom on either
side of the J-pole driven element.  Use the element diameter, length and
spacing from an ARRL Handbook design for a short 2 meter beam.  Either
pin the boom and turn the antenna or turn the boom on the collar to
change antenna direction.  I don't know how well this will work but it
really qualifies as quick and dirty!

Another similar option is to use the wood dowel or broom handle to mount
several lengths of #12 or #10 solid house wire as elements and make your
beam that way.  Make the driven element a folded dipole with a balun or
rig up a gamma match for the coax.  If you want some really stiff wire,
look for heavy gauge galvanized steel fence wire at the local hardware
store.  Element length and spacing will have to be estimated using an
existing design and adjusting for element diameter and boom mounting.
You can find directions for the math in the Handbooks or try using one
of the computer programs.

Maybe someone else on the net can give you a detailed design.
Good Luck.
73's.
Doug Reed, N0NAS              email: [e-mail]
St Paul, MN

 * SLMR 2.1a * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:35 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!news.Stanford.EDU!newshub.internex.net!news.internex.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Bandpass/notch cavity construction techniques/ideas
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 20:01:43 GMT
Organization: InterNex Information Services 1-800-595-3333
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4bkbf9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: yankee.insighttec.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I've been making 70cm band bandpass/notch cavities out of 2 inch
copper pipe with some success. I'd like to make larger diameter
cavities not only for 70cm but also for 2m. I've thought about
galvanized sheet metal but am aware of the poor conductivity of the
material. Anyone had any luck with other construction practices? What
about soldering plated PCB board into square cavities?


Ron Curry
KE6WED
[e-mail]
[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!bga.com!realtime.net!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!pacifier!pacifier.com!rvr
From: [e-mail] (Ronald Ries)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Best Instrument for Matching Line to Load
Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:07:29 GMT
Organization: Pacifier, public access Internet site. 360-693-0325
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4bp6k1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacifier.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

I would like to start a thread about instrumentation used to match the
antenna to the transmitter. I have long enjoyed the trying of different
antennas on the various bands and have tried a variety of
instrumentation to achieve a match.

How about it? What methods/tools do you swear by in this aspect of the hobby?

Ron

--
Heck, writing is easy. Just sit down and open a vein...




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Instrument for Matching Line to Load
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 17:42:01 GMT
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4bp6k1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Ronald Ries) wrote:

>I would like to start a thread about instrumentation used to match
>the antenna to the transmitter. I have long enjoyed the trying of
>different antennas on the various bands and have tried a variety of
>instrumentation to achieve a match.

Do you mean impedance matching networks, or impedance measurement
equipment?

>How about it? What methods/tools do you swear by in this aspect
>of the hobby?

There are no methods that I swear by, but many that I swear at.  :)

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!purdue!yuma!lamar.ColoState.EDU!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: book by Sevick wanted
Date: 23 Dec 1995 08:00:26 -0700
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <4bh5ia$[e-mail]>
References: <951213142307@re3mjo>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lamar.acns.colostate.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Mike O'Rourke ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I'm looking for a copy of Jerry Sevicks book
: "Transmission Line Transformers"
: The book is currently out of print and unavailable
: from the ARRL.
: Does anyone have a copy that I can buy?
: 810-986-0223 work
: 810-986-2033 home

Try Amidon Associates, 310-763-5770.  They list it on their price list.
(Box 956, Torrance, CA 90508)

Out of print?  Are they working on a new edition or just blowing it off?

Galen, KF0YJ


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:39 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!news
From: [e-mail] (Richard Barnaby)
Subject: Re: book by Sevick wanted
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr Usenet Himself)
Nntp-Posting-Host: world.std.com
Organization: Business Support Services
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113
References: <951213142307@re3mjo> <4bh5ia$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:16:49 GMT
Lines: 38

Amidon Associates does indeed have the book,
At least they had one 2 months ago when I got mine  :-)

but they have moved.
Their new address is:
        Amidon Associates
        P.O. Box 25867
        Santa Ana, CA 92799
        Tel [phone]
        Fax [phone]
Order "Transmission Line Transformers"
           2nd Edition    Cost $20.00

[e-mail] (Watts) wrote:

>Mike O'Rourke ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: I'm looking for a copy of Jerry Sevicks book
>: "Transmission Line Transformers"
>: The book is currently out of print and unavailable
>: from the ARRL.
>: Does anyone have a copy that I can buy?
>: 810-986-0223 work
>: 810-986-2033 home
>
>Try Amidon Associates, 310-763-5770.  They list it on their price list.
>(Box 956, Torrance, CA 90508)
>
>Out of print?  Are they working on a new edition or just blowing it off?
>
>Galen, KF0YJ

*********************************************************
* Richard Barnaby       Business Support Services       *
* 3230 E. Flamingo Rd #505                              *
* Las Vegas, NV 89121                                   *
* 800-864-5591 pager               AA1IB Amateur Radio  *
*********************************************************



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!sunrise.gv.ssi1.com!oronet!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Building a Dipole Antenna
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 19:04:19 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4bmsjj$[e-mail]>
References: <4b9r0e$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Justin Magers) wrote:

>Greetings,

>I wish to improve my FM signal by building a dipole antenna.
[snip in consideration of bandwidth]

Do you just want to build the dipole, do you want to build it as cheap
as possible, or do you want to know how to make a dipole out of copper
pipe?  Each of these has a different answer, although I must admit
I've never heard of building a copper-pipe dipole in my forty years in
the business.  Exactly what do you want to achieve?

Please no email; answer in the newsgroup.

Jim



Jim Weir VP Engineering  | "We seem to be standing on
RST Engineering          |  the foreskin of technology."
Grass Valley CA 95945    | (Gen. Chuck Yeager)
voice/fax [phone]   |
[e-mail]  AR Adv WB6BHI  CFI A&G/Comml Inst A&G/A&P/C-182A N73CQ



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.mindspring.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (mike del pozzo)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: c_craft 40-2 CD info
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 08:06:21 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4blbib$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kr4tg.mindspring.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

can anyone please supply me with either the May '87 CQ , or the Jul
'83 QST article(s) on the Cushcraft 40-2 CD? I am considering a
purchase of this yagi and would like to know the original reviews on
it. Would like to put it just below a 4 element Quad if possible. Any
help would be greatly appreciated and all opinions of the beam will
be read. Tnx in advance.......es........73
de KR4TG , Mike




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 03:20:49 GMT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4ar6pn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Sparkzz) wrote:

>You might want to make sure all your telephoning is over for the day
>before you fire up the rig  B-)

No one but Sparkzz mentioned this, but IMO it's the biggest problem
with an attic antenna.  Aside from the fact that attic wiring will
usurp some of your signal, it will also conduct it all over the house.
For some reason, the effects seem to be at their worst on 80M, at
least in my experience.  Be prepared for lots of RFI if you do this.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (JCHol)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: 24 Dec 1995 15:17:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 7
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bkch6$[e-mail]>
References: <4bbo28$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (JCHol)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I agree that the resonant dipole is the way to go. My first contact on 15
meters with my attic dipole was Kwajelein!  I was calling CQ and he
answered me.

Try it and see.  You can have it going in less than two hours.

John, WA5TWL


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu
From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once ag
Date: 25 Dec 1995 17:49:53 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4bmo81$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4bhole$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com

In article <4bhole$[e-mail]>,
W8JI  Tom <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>In my view, the problem stems from a lack of peer review in our hobby. Our
>teachers are not "board certified". That means everything we read is
>basically just an opinion rather than an accepted fact. Publishers of even
>the most reputable data (like the ARRL) are too short staffed and lack the
>diverse background required to review articles for technical accuracy, and
>some don't check at all.
>
>Actually I view it more like publications have a list of accepted people
>to deal with. The switch is either on or off. The unfortunate thing is
>every one of us has holes in our knowlege. That includes the people with
>their hands on the switch and the authors they select. A big part of how
>that switch is flipped is determined  by how nice the guy is, and how well
>he writes. Not by what the author really said!

Even if you have peer review, you can run into problems.  Many readers of
this newsgroup are probably familiar with "RF Design" magazine.  Ever year
they have a design contest.  The first year the winning entry was a clever
network analyzer of sorts using four diode detector probes at 1/8 wavelength
spacing (a fixed slotted line).  I pointed out to the editor that the
exact same system was described in the August 1947 Proceedings of the IRE,
and so it should be disqualified on the grounds of not being original.  His
reply was that his panel of experts had not read the 1947 paper, hence it
didn't count as prior art.  I imagine the contestant was a very nice fellow
who probably didn't read the paper either and independently reinvented
the thing.  I'll assume he wasn't cheating.

I have had conversations with editors of other trade journals where I pointed
out that such and such an article was complete nonsense.  They said
something to the effect that, oh yes, other people had told them the same
thing about the article.  But they didn't seem very upset about it.


Rick Karlquist N6RK
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty QST Article
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 95 12:43:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 16

IG> Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for
IG> Short Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short
IG> verticals, he also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and
IG> systematically covers the effects of the following on radiation
IG> efficiency:

Ian,

Now that takes me back.  That article by Sevick got me seriously
working with 80M verticals (Sevick's work was all at 20M).
Excellent work--I still have a copy of that article.

Unfortunately (or fortunately!) Jerry, W2FMI, got interested
in baluns. ;-)

 * RM 1.3 02583 * Observation, not old age, brings wisdom.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Earth capacitance
Date: 23 Dec 1995 18:58:01 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 2
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bhjfp$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Thanks Rick
73, Bill


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!hal.COM!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!io.org!van-bc!news.cyberstore.ca!skypoint.com!umn.edu!newsstand.tc.umn.edu!usenet
From: "tom medin" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 05:20:27 CST
Organization: University of Minnesota
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-12-a-10.gw.umn.edu
X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_18A
X-POPMail-Charset: English

i'm having difficulty keeping my ladder line away from the metal
(tower or mast) when i rotate the antenna.  do you knowledgeable folks
know if i can splice in a short section of two pieces of coax at the
point of concern?  i would connect the center conductors to their
respective lader-line wires, and short the two shield conductors
(ground them also?).  this would cause an impedance bump, but i
suspect there are quite a few already (window, no-window, window,
etc.).  if this would work for ladder-line, would it also work for
open line (bumpless line).  i'm getting tired of the unsightly
contraption that i have up on the tower for keeping the line away from
the metal (it doesn't work well anyway).


t medin
n0ufm


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:49 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Steve Beyers <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 24 Dec 1995 20:13:18 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4bkc8u$r88$[e-mail]>

I've got a 41-foot vertical I use on 40,
30, and 20 meters.  It's a homebrew welded
steel tower, mounted on the ground, with
48 buried radials, each about 50 ft. long.
I feed it with 300 ohm window line, about
90 ft. long, with no matching at the base.
The rig has the standard 50 ohm output.

In the shack, to match the rig to the line,
I use a simple homebrew link coupler with
a variable coupling (swinging?) link.  Iuse
twin thermocouple ammeters to measure line
currents.  I balance the currents by moving
the tap positions on the output coil.
According to the Transmission Line program,
losses are low even though the SWR is high,
because of the low loss of the 300 ohm line.

It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing
something.  I've never seen balanced line
feeding a vertical in any of the books.
Any comments?

--
Steve Beyers W9HJW


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:51 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 25 Dec 1995 15:55:58 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 28
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bn34u$[e-mail]>
References: <4bkc8u$r88$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bkc8u$r88$[e-mail]>, Steve Beyers
<[e-mail]> writes:

>It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing
>something.  I've never seen balanced line
>feeding a vertical in any of the books.
>Any comments?

Hi Steve,
I suspect the feedline current is balanced only at the shack end, and not
at the feedpoint. It would be better if you could install some type of
choke balun at antenna, but I don't know how you would do that with
twinlead. Heathkit used to sell a balun that used air insulated parallel
wire coils that looked like miniductor, one of those coils would likely
work.

The problem with that feed method is the ground system, rig, or wiring in
the shack becomes part of the antennas ground, and at the antenna the
current likely "unbalances" again to some extent.

But like so many things in antennas, the system  doesn't need to be
perfect to work well. So it may not matter, hi.

If it works and there are no ill effects, enjoy the novel feed
arrangement.

73 and Merry Xmas,
Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:52 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 17:53:34 GMT
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4bkc8u$r88$[e-mail]> <4bn34u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:
 Steve Beyers <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>>It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing
>>something.  I've never seen balanced line
>>feeding a vertical in any of the books.
>>Any comments?
>
>Hi Steve,
>I suspect the feedline current is balanced only at the shack end,
>and not at the feedpoint.

Tom, you really got me with this one.  I went back and read it
several times, but I couldn't figure out any interpretation other
than the obvious.  So, I'll bite.  How can the current balance
at one end of the feedline be different than at the other?  Won't
Kirchoff disapprove?  :~)

73 & Happy New Year,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:53 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nntp.et.byu.edu!news.byu.edu!hamblin.math.byu.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Steve Beyers <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 27 Dec 1995 05:05:50 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4bqk7e$rcg$[e-mail]>
References: <4bn34u$[e-mail]>

Tom -

You're right.  I checked at the feedpoint, and the
currents are not balanced.  Charlie W6JJZ said the
same thing. You're both right.  I put a homebrew 1:1
balun at the antenna base today, but haven't checked
the currents yet.  I don't know why I didn't think
of checking currents at the base.  Old age, I guess.
You and Charlie gave me a whole new way of looking
at it.  Thanks.
                               Steve

--
Steve Beyers W9HJW


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:54 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!io.org!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 27 Dec 1995 13:17:41 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 54
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bs2k5$[e-mail]>
References: <4bqk7e$rcg$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bqk7e$rcg$[e-mail]>, Steve Beyers
<[e-mail]> writes:

>Tom -
>
>You're right.  I checked at the feedpoint, and the
>currents are not balanced.  Charlie W6JJZ said the
>same thing. You're both right.  I put a homebrew 1:1
>balun at the antenna base today, but haven't checked
>the currents yet.  I don't know why I didn't think
>of checking currents at the base.  Old age, I guess.
>You and Charlie gave me a whole new way of looking
>at it.  Thanks.
>                               Steve

Hi Steve, Charlie and Jack,

Not old age Steve, you just were looking at one of the most mis-understood
basics! I can find dozens of examples where very sharp people overlook or
are confused by this. That's why more than one person should look at any
system for errors, and if there is a conflict it should be resolved by
proving the system out. Not by gut feelings, computer models, or popular
opinion. <grin>

Jack brought up a good question. We almost touched on this in the "Is a
balun necessary thread" several months ago.

Because current is balanced at one end of the feedline, it doesn't mean it
is balanced at the other end or anywhere in between the ends. It's sure
easy to buy into the conclusion that balance at one point means balance
everywhere else, but it just ain't so. Kirchoff's law absolutely applies
to antennas, but we have to be careful we are talking about any single
point in the system and we are considering all the current paths. If the
feeder is improperly connected at either end, all bets are off. The feeder
can become part of the radiating system, and so can the transmitter and
it's associated wiring! Such errors make the system unpredictable and hard
to analyze.

The system can have perfectly balanced and out of phase feedline currents
at any one point, and inches away have a major problem with parallel
currents! The example of the balanced line feeder with an unbalance load
is a good one. Another is the matching stub of a J pole or a Zepp's
feeder. Even a vertical with a less than perfect ground fed with coax has
this problem, and the less perfect the ground the bigger the problem!

Even if current is perfectly balanced at one point, somewhere down the
line it can be way out of whack. The only way to guarantee proper system
operation is to treat every part of the line correctly. Looking at one
point can cause incorrect conclusions to be reached, like say...ahhhh....
insulated radials work better by reducing earth losses. Or the matching
stub of a Jpole doesn't radiate!
;-)

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com!tomb
From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 27 Dec 1995 21:15:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Corvallis Site
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <4bsd2f$[e-mail]>
References: <4bs2k5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsnb.lsid.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4]

W8JI  Tom ([e-mail]) wrote:

: Jack brought up a good question. We almost touched on this in the "Is a
: balun necessary thread" several months ago.

: Because current is balanced at one end of the feedline, it doesn't mean it
: is balanced at the other end or anywhere in between the ends. It's sure

etc.

This is (hopefully) just another way to think about the same point Tom is
making here:

  The (antenna) current on an antenna element is not the same everywhere...
  for example, the current in a half-wave dipole is high at the center and
  very low at the ends.

  Similarly, the antenna current on a transmission line is not everywhere
  the same; it varies with distance along the line.  The line is simply
  acting as an antenna element, and the current distribution on it depends
  on its shape and its placement with respect to other conductors and
  dielectrics, and on the currents in those other conductors.

:  Looking at one
: point can cause incorrect conclusions to be reached, like say...ahhhh....
: insulated radials work better by reducing earth losses. Or the matching
: stub of a Jpole doesn't radiate!

Yes, Tom, the J-Pole is an interesting case.  Realizing that there are
antenna currents on the matching stub can make you think about just how
you are going to mount the thing:  how do you isolate it from a metallic
mast, to keep the whole darned mast from becoming a radiator (with a very
poorly controlled pattern)?  What are you going to do to isolate the
feedline from the stub?  And a real zinger, just how does the gain of a
J-pole compare with, say, a half-wave fed against four quarter-wave
radials?  ...  If I can trust my simulations, the answers are kind of
interesting.

--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!guardian.up.edu!gateway.sequent.com!news.orst.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.corpcomm.net!newstand.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feedpoint impedance of ya
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 20:53:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <4b2bt4$[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 17

SW> How does the feedpoint impedance of a yagi vary with the number of
SW> elements?  For example, in a yagi designed for 3m reception (only),
SW> of 3-6 total elements, is the impedance close enough to the 72-ohm
SW> dipole impedance to just hook on a 75-ohm coax and run it to the
SW> receiver?

The feedpoint of a Yagi will be quite a bit lower than the
73 ohms of a lone half wave element due to the coupling
presented by the reflector and directors.  The typical
resonant feedpoint impedance of a 3 el Yagi, for example,
will be around 25 ohms.  This is why various types of
matches are used on Yagis to transform their impedance
up to 50 ohm coax. Added directors will only drive that
feedpoint impedance a little lower.

--k2bt
 * RM 1.3 02583 * The easiest way to refold a road map is differently.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Krin135)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Field day antenna
Date: 27 Dec 1995 08:02:20 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 31
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4brg4s$[e-mail]>
References: <4a00gv$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi: I've had a chance to go back and dig stuff out again. It turns out
that it was a "Porta Bull" antenna by ODO- not an "Incredi Bull" as I
stated in my first message.
I thought that I put this out in another message, but can not find the
second msg in my files. Forgive the wasted bandwidth if you already have
this info.

In article <4a00gv$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brian
Williams) writes:

>
>Is this antenna available in any ham stores?
Possibly- but contact point is ODO Antennas, 1839 Watercrest Houston, TX
77008

>Does is use radials?
Yes, length over all is 33" assembled with three radiators, 21 3/8 rigged
for storage.

>What's the cost?
I paid about $40 at the Twin City Ham fest.

>Does it appear to be built ruggedly?
yes.

Incidently, I got my MFJ 5/8 wave 2mtr up yesterday, and now can hit
WB5SOT's repeater about 30 miles away on 3 watts, through the trees.

73 de KC5EVN




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:18:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!news.corpcomm.net!newspeak.ultratech.net!worldlinx.com!onlink3.onlink.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FM antennae
Date: 24 Dec 1995 04:26:01 GMT
Organization: Ontario Northland--ONLink
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4bikop$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nlkd1_onlink14.onlink.net
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

What is the best type of outdoor antennae to put up for FM reception. Those li
ttle Tee antennae that are included with some
stereos just are not adequate for decent reception in this part of the country
. What length would be best for FM reception?

*******************************************************************
The doors of Heaven and Hell are adjacent and identical.

-Nikos Katantzakis,  "The Last Temptation of Christ"
********************************************************************


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cc.iu.net!news
From: [e-mail]   (Bill Newkirk)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FM antennae
Date: 25 Dec 1995 16:09:59 GMT
Organization: Space Coast Amateur Technical Group
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4bmicn$[e-mail]>
References: <4bikop$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Bill Newkirk)
NNTP-Posting-Host: netport-2.iu.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <4bikop$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>What is the best type of outdoor antennae to put up for FM reception. Those l
ittle Tee antennae that are included with some
>stereos just are not adequate for decent reception in this part of the countr
y. What length would be best for FM reception?

something outdoors above the house is a start.

don't scrimp on the feedline...no sense in putting up a good antenna array
and then losing it all in the feedline.  consider something like RG-6.

Bill Newkirk WB9IVR                  The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group
Melbourne, FL                       duty now for the future of amateur radio
Lombardi's 1st Law of Business:
Companies succeed in spite of their best effort.  If they succeed at all.



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:01 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ncrgw2.ncr.com!ncrhub6!daynews!avenger!news
From: Bill Starkgraf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: FM antennae
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: 141.206.22.27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News administrative Login)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (WPS)
Organization: ATT Global Information Solutions
X-Newsreader: DiscussIT 2.5.1.3 for MS Windows [AT&T Software Products Division]
References: <4bmicn$[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 19:55:47 GMT
Lines: 13

Those little Tee (dipole] do not work well inside.  The metal in
the walls (stucco homes the mesh)
tends to cancel out the radio signals.

I agree with Bill WB9IVR, look for something outside.

Bill



Bill Starkgraf   KD6UQB
AT&T Global Information Solutions



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!hearye.mlb.semi.harris.com!jabba.ess.harris.com!news.ess.harris.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (kennedy)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: FM Stereo stacked yagi question
Date: 22 Dec 1995 14:42:38 GMT
Organization: Your Organization
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4beg4u$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mtde08.mtp.semi.harris.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6

I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm
connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two,
do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of
cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I
use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:02 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Re: FM Stereo stacked yagi question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <4beg4u$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 19:52:10 GMT
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]

kennedy ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm
: connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two,
: do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of
: cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I
: use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks

Why not just add another director or two in front?  This will get you 3db
more gain in less space and without the hassle.  You really need to space
them a wavelength apart to gain the benefits of the stacking (a bare
minimum of 5/8 wavelength).  A wavelength is, of course, about 10 feet.
The additional directors will only add 2-3 feet to the length.

However, if you are dealing (which I sort of think you are) with a
commerical "yagi" from Radio Shack or Winegard, these aren't really yagi
antennas.  They have several (3 on the RS, 5 on the Winegard) drive
elements, and I've been told they are really log-periodic.  I honestly
don't know what the effect of additional directors would be here.  If
someone know, please post it.

Especially if you are dealing with multipath you probably want an array
as you would have to have all the antennas in the array not in "nulls".
Kind of hard to do as nulls are a fraction of a wavelength apart.  In
fact, I had some curious results with one of the above antennas.  Seems
like the front directors were in a "null" while the back of the antenna was
in a strong signal area.  Unfolding the directors actually worsened the
reception, quite noticeably.  Even getting all of a single antenna in a
strong signal area is a challenge.

If anyone has ideas how an antenna can be built in a small space (i.e.
only 3 feet or less in any dimension) with a gain of at least 6db, I
would be quite interested.  I don't care about response across the entire
FM band, just a single station.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:04 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!slwork
From: [e-mail] (Steve Work)
Subject: Re: FM Stereo stacked yagi question
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <4beg4u$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 21:50:25 GMT
Lines: 39
Sender: [e-mail]

kennedy ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm
: connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two,
: do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of
: cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I
: use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks

The way you would want to do this is to build a stub-matching network.  A
practical way to do this would be to connect the two antennas in
parallel.  Run two pieces of 300-ohm twinlead from, one to each antenna,
and tie them together.  Pay attention to the phase!  If they are phased
wrong the two antennas will cancel out.  (In fact, phasing the antennas
backwards should give you zero signal, the less signal you get here the
better your array is set up).  This point where they come together has an
impedance of 150 ohms.

The 150 ohm feedpoint needs to be transformed to 75 ohms to go to a coax
to your receiver.  I know that you can cut about 3 pieces of twinlead and
build a matching network.  Perhaps by using one piece of TV wire to run
between the antenna connection and the coax, and a shorted stub attached
to each end of the network.  However I don't quite know how to design
this.  I would much be interested in a computer program where you feed in
the impedance of each end, line impedance, and have it spit out a design
of a matching network.  Does anyone know of one?

All you need is twinlead and know-how to do this.

One important thing to remember is that the wavelength in the twinlead is
about 82% percent of that in free space.

Making an array of four antennas is easy.  You run equal length pieces to
each antenna.  Tie the ends into two pairs of two connections in
parallel.  Then get two quarter-wave pieces to tie the paired connections
together.  The place where the quarter-wave transformers meets will have
a 300-ohm impedance which you can convert to 75 with a common balun.  The
quarter-wave transformer has an impedance of 2X the line on one end and
1/2X the line on the other.  Again, if you don't phase things right, you
are wasting all your effort.  Experiment around and try to null out the
signal by phasing the connections backwards.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.mind.net!news.onramp.net!ntpcug.org
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
From: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 95 02:03:00 -0600
Subject: Re: FM Stereo stacked yagi question
References: <4beg4u$[e-mail]>
Organization: North Texas PC User's Group
X-Newsreader: TPCB 0.8 21100010
Lines: 27

==========================================================================

KE> I'm vertically stacking two FM stereo yagi's. Both have 300ohm
KE> connections at antenna. Other than the spacing between the two,
KE> do I need somekind of matching balun or certain wavelength of
KE> cable between the two. The antennas are identical. What do I
KE> use to combine the two?? (splitter/combiner) Please post.Thanks

Wholesale electronic parts distributors that carry splitters usually
carry combiners, also.  If I were you, and involved in a serious project
like that, I would invest in an LD phone call to the customer service
desk of the antenna manufacturer.  Getting this right means you will
have the peace of mind that you have maximized your performance.  I
would also use decent coax; I use Belden 8281, which requires special
connectors.

Sounds like you have a very serious project going.  What tuner are you
using?  Does it give you a scope output to observe the RF?  Where are
you located? What are you trying to receive?

     Regards, TOM BLACKWELL, N5GAR, PO Box 25403, Dallas, Texas 75225
              [e-mail]                SGL-North Texas
                      The NTPCUG's TI PRO BBS lives at [phone]

---
 ■ SLMR 2.1a ■ ...  ((((( This message in STEREO where available )))))



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!skypoint.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Dutch)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:05:54 GMT
Organization: SkyPoint Communications, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4bp6h2$[e-mail]>
References: <4b6vqh$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial050.skypoint.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.7

In article <4b6vqh$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Any comments on the above verticals?
>The Gap is $100 cheaper and also covers 80M, so why is $100 cheaper.
I
>have had an R7 which worked good until it got hit by lightening.  How
is
>the quality of the Gap Titan vs the Cushcraft?  Anybody ever use the
>Titan?  Is the VSWR good?  How does it get out on all bands including
80?

Recommend you read "Whither vertical antenna design" in the December
issue of Worldradio.  If you have limited space or are not very
interested in antenna theory and/or practice, then these aerials make
some sense.  Choose the one without traps but keep in mind that Gap has
made many compromises too in cramming the Titan full of coaxial stubs.
Owned Gaps and R5s and found them considerably down from good old
fashion ground or roof mounted verticals with adequate radials.  The
best vertical in my experience is the Butternut series, straight
vertical dipoles, or half squares.  It's amazing where you can put
them.  Good luck and 73, de Ed, AA0HI.



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:07 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Date: 26 Dec 1995 22:02:58 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 23
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bqd12$[e-mail]>
References: <4bp6h2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bp6h2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Dutch) writes:

>Owned Gaps and R5s and found them considerably down from good old
>fashion ground or roof mounted verticals with adequate radials.  The
>best vertical in my experience is the Butternut series, straight
>vertical dipoles, or half squares.  It's amazing where you can put
>them.  Good luck and 73, de Ed, AA0HI.
>
>

I can second most of that. ANY ground mounted vertical or ground plane
with a good ground system will murder the radial-less antennas. I've had a
GAP, R7, Butternut, and the MFJ ground mounted vertical (it requires
radials) here. With even a modest ground the Butternut and the MFJ wipe
out the radial-less systems. The GAP was 2 S units down from the Butternut
most of the time.

Of course a dipole at 85 feet kills 'em all on 40 (even for long DX), but
the MFJ 35 foot tall top loaded vertical with 80-100 radials ties a dipole
at 130 feet into Europe on 80! Still surprised by that!

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!novia!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Date: 26 Dec 1995 22:17:21 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 11
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bqds1$[e-mail]>
References: <4bp6h2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bp6h2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(Dutch) writes:

>Choose the one without traps but keep in mind that Gap has
>made many compromises too in cramming the Titan full of coaxial stubs.

I wonder why traps are given such a bum rap?? Did they say they were worse
than stubs, and what's the logic WR used???

73,
Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Date: 27 Dec 1995 14:43:01 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 26
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bs7k5$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Wes
Stewart) writes:

>
>Oh come on Tom!  You _know_ coax-fed, trap-resonated antennas are
terribly
>"lossy", while non-resonant ladder line and tuner fed antennas are
>"efficient."
>
>Why, this is "conventional wisdom."  How could it possibly be wrong?
<grin>
>
>

Oh-Yes-Wes, now I remember.

Traps do dissipate all kinds of power. The single 20 meter trap in my
Butternut dissipates nearly half of my 1500 watt transmitter's power. I
forgot about the big cooling fins on the trap and the coil in oil internal
design all the lossy nasty ugly traps use. How could I be so forgetful!

I'm sure a folded up chunk of coax feedline called a tuning stub, or a 10
to one SWR on lossless ladder line fed with a lossless tuner is much more
efficient tan a trap! <smirk>

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: ground and the long wire antenna
Date: 23 Dec 1995 14:19:04 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 33
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bh34o$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

>Dave Hockaday WB4IUY
>[e-mail]

>Everything I've been told and read suggests that the lightning rod is only
>for lightning protection, and the wires only need to be connected together
>at the the feedpoint (to the shield of the feedpoint).

The longwire antenna needs a reference plane of some kind to launch a
wave. The back yard is the preferred reference plane, and not the
furnace pipes, the TV set, the rig, the operator, etc.

If the long wire has a high impedance at the output of the transmatch,
so that the current into the ground connection is small, the connection
is *less* critical than if the current is large (1/4 wave). In the first
instance a few ground rods with a resistance to ground of 15 Ohms or so
may be, not perfect, but OK. If the ground current is large a substantial
ground wire system is needed.

In either case the coax from the xmtr to the transmatch should be loaded
with ferrite beads to minimize "backflow" of RF to the operating
position.

One approach would be to add a high Q inductor to the wire that would
raise the driving point impedance to, say, 300 Ohms. This would
reduce ground current considerably. One could also make the wire
5/8 wavelength. The wire does not have to be any particular length
as long as it can be tuned OK. The extra length moves the max
current farther above ground, which is helpful. The higher antenna
drive point impedance *may* also improve the transmatch efficiency.

There is an article in the Summer 1994 Edition of Communications
Quarterly, written by myself and reviewed by K6STI. If you like,
I will snail mail or fax a copy to any one who wants it.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (richard smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #627
Date: 26 Dec 95 05:01:39 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 1
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951226000119.14151F-100000@scfn>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:12 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!rain.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (richard smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #628
Date: 26 Dec 95 05:16:52 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951226001635.14151Z-100000@scfn>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (richard smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #629
Date: 26 Dec 95 05:20:25 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951226002008.14151e-100000@scfn>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!noc.near.net!usenet.continental.com!usenet
From: Paul Christensen <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help - 160m Beverage
Date: 22 Dec 1995 20:38:24 GMT
Organization: Continental Cablevision
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4bf500$[e-mail]>
References: <4bb0hm$[e-mail]> <4bbraf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 169.152.167.70
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

>It's pretty well established that lengths over 1 wl don't add >performance,bu
t they don't hurt much either.

It depends on your definition of performance:  The difference in gain
between 1 and 4 wavelengths at 160 meters can be as much as 5 dB.  I use
the term "gain" relatively since it is negative with repect to an
isoltropic radiator.  Additionally, the wave angle at 1 wavelength is
typically 50 degrees.  At 4 wavelengths, it is generally less than  24
degrees.  As the length of the antenna increases, the wave angle
decreases, and asymptotically approaches ten degrees with wavelengths
greater than twelve.  Beyond 5 or 6 wavelengths, gain as referenced
against an isoltropic radiator, actually decreases.  The moral here is
that for low launch angle DX work, the longer wavelength beverages are
preferred.

-Paul, N9AZ





From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!server-b.cs.interbusiness.it!galactica.galactica.it!usenet
From: Angelo Zambaiti <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: help for quad
Date: 24 Dec 1995 10:40:44 GMT
Organization: Galactica Professional Communication
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4bjanc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net.galactica.it

Hello dr om,
I am a cubical quad supporter and builder,and I just made a
double driven 4 elements monobander on 20 mt. but I have only
a few information about it so results were not very good.
So I greatly appreciate if you send me via e-mail or on the
newsgroup details,suggestions,descriptions,sizes or any kind
of idea about dual driven quad.That's all!
Seasonal greetings for everybody.
Ciao de IK2RZP
Angelo Gino Zambaiti   e-mail gino@galactica



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Terry Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: help for quad
Date: 24 Dec 1995 19:22:37 -0800
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4bl5dt$[e-mail]>
References: <4bjanc$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com

In article <4bjanc$[e-mail]> Angelo Zambaiti <gino@galactica
.it> writes:
>Hello dr om,
>I am a cubical quad supporter and builder,and I just made a
>double driven 4 elements monobander on 20 mt. but I have only
>a few information about it so results were not very good.
>So I greatly appreciate if you send me via e-mail or on the
>newsgroup details,suggestions,descriptions,sizes or any kind
>of idea about dual driven quad.That's all!
>Seasonal greetings for everybody.
>Ciao de IK2RZP
>Angelo Gino Zambaiti   e-mail gino@galactica
>

Hello Angelo,
        A friend I met on the air many years ago was W6PU. For years
he ran a 4 element quad at about 80 feet and had one of the best signals
on the west coast. Some years back he converted it to a dual driven
element quad with director and reflector (4 elements). The two driven
elements we phased with 135 degree phasing coax between them that
contributed to the increase in gain and at the same time contributed
to a wide bandwidth. Seeing (in this case hearing) is believing. That
quad of his was a killer.
        Several years ago W6PU published an articlw in Amateur Radio
CQ magazine on his dual driven quad that I wish I had. I don't recall
the issue but perhaps someone on the net will have it.
        Good luck with your quad. Just got my 2 element 20-10 lightning
bolt quad back up this weekend after our big storm a couple of weeks
ago knocked it over.

Terry
KI7M



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help on Diffraction loss calculation
Date: 25 Dec 95 11:24:11 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Can somebody shoot me the formulas and/or basic algorithms
for Diffraction over obstacles and irregular terrain
radio path loss calculation?
Any relating computer basic program known?
Your assistance is much appreciated!
Thanks, Danilo +


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:18 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1.cris.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Ramon Tristani)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Help on Freespace Path Loss
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 19:45:44 GMT
Organization: MEV
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4bpj8h$[e-mail]>
References: <4aqgd1$[e-mail]> <4b4b63$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crc6-fddi.cris.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Pricemw) wrote:

>>Can somebody shoot me the formula for free space path loss of a radio
>signal?
>>Your assistance is much appreciated.

>Rick--
>Good question!!  From memory, I think the equation is 36.6+20log f + 20
>log d.
>f is in mhz,  d is in miles, and the answer is in db. This should be
>checked, since I have not used the equation in several years.

>However, remember that the equation is for a point source, and assumes
>that radiation is in all directions, thus the path loss. (The total
>radiated power is distributed on the imaginary spherical surface at
>distance d.  As d increases, the watts/square surface decreases.)

>So...keep in mind that a pair of perfect dish antennas pointed at each
>other would have NO path loss.  i.e. all the transmitted power is
>received.

>--Wayne    W5GIE in Redlands, CA

Hi. The equation is correct except that the first number should be
96.6 instead of 36.6. This equation is used in M/W line of sight work.
With inospheric prop involved the results will vary widely.

Ramon Tristani, kp4ge




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Kirchhoff and the entire world
Date: 23 Dec 1995 15:14:47 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

Merry Christmas W8JITom to you and your family,

The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor
(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place,
say in your back yard or in Timbuktu or whatever, and you extract
energy from it at 60 Hz to run your equipment. You could charge the
batteries next week or whatever and Mother Earth won't care. In one
way or another energy and charge are conserved world wide. We could
think of the Earth as one huge component in a network that Herr Kirchhoff
would recognize.

My premise is that it is often easier to think in those terms, in
antenna work, than to get all tangled up with where the exact return
paths are located. The power (or energy) that is radiated also returns
to earth somewhere, in strange ways.

In any antenna setup where there are losses that cannot be easily
accounted for by conventional circuit theory it is useful to have
a simpler way to think of it. In any real world setup the return
of *all* of the ground current *directly* to the xmtr is always in
doubt. Eventually, all of the energy and charge are accounted for,
but in my opinion it is not necessary to go through a lot of mental
gyrations just to justify one particular way of looking at a problem.
Kirchhoff's laws are great, but they are just one particular example
of the larger concept of the conservation of charge and energy. The
example of the battery operated xmtr is an example of this.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!rkarlqu
From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world
Date: 23 Dec 1995 18:36:32 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4bhi7g$[e-mail]>
References: <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpscrj.scd.hp.com

In article <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>,
 <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Merry Christmas W8JITom to you and your family,
>
>The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor
>(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place,

FWIW:

I remember reading in Halliday & Resnick's "Physics" that the
self-capacitance of the earth is about 700 microfarads.


Rick N6RK


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:21 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!news
From: [e-mail] (Richard Barnaby)
Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr Usenet Himself)
Nntp-Posting-Host: world.std.com
Organization: Business Support Services
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.113
References: <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:16:57 GMT
Lines: 30

[e-mail] wrote:


>The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor
>(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place,
>say in your back yard or in Timbuktu or whatever, and you extract
>energy from it at 60 Hz to run your equipment. You could charge the
>batteries next week or whatever and Mother Earth won't care. In one
>way or another energy and charge are conserved world wide. We could
>think of the Earth as one huge component in a network that Herr Kirchhoff
>would recognize.

OK, I've been lurking around this thread a bit, trying to learn :-)
and I'm now really confused.

Energy and charge are conserved world wide?  Howzzzat?
What about radiation from the sun?
What about radio waves lost to space?
Are you saying the earth is a "closed system"?

-Richard Barnaby


*********************************************************
* Richard Barnaby       Business Support Services       *
* 3230 E. Flamingo Rd #505                              *
* Las Vegas, NV 89121                                   *
* 800-864-5591 pager               AA1IB Amateur Radio  *
*********************************************************



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world
Date: 23 Dec 1995 15:26:15 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 75
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bhol7$[e-mail]>
References: <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hello Again Bill,

In article <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:
>
>Merry Christmas W8JITom to you and your family,

Merry Xmas to, you also Bill and your friends and family, and to all
others lurking about on the net.

>The Earth is like a huge energy storage tank, a 1000 Farad capacitor
>(or whatever it is). You dump RF energy into it at one place,
>say in your back yard or in Timbuktu or whatever, and you extract
>energy from it at 60 Hz to run your equipment. You could charge the
>batteries next week or whatever and Mother Earth won't care. In one
>way or another energy and charge are conserved world wide. We could
>think of the Earth as one huge component in a network that Herr Kirchhoff
>would recognize.

Well sure, the mass is so large the earth wouldn't change potential much
from the addition of a great number of electrons, or a shortage of them.
But that ignores the small mass of the antenna!

>My premise is that it is often easier to think in those terms, in
>antenna work, than to get all tangled up with where the exact return
>paths are located. The power (or energy) that is radiated also returns
>to earth somewhere, in strange ways.

I think this is the point of mis-communication. The concern is two-fold.
Losses caused by field effects in the lossy media surrounding the antenna
and direct connection losses caused by currents from the terminals of the
antenna.

We need a "foothold" to force current into and out of the antenna.
Certainly the earth is an adequate mass for this, but we need a low
resistance mass to minimize loss. And that mass can be rather small. The
smaller the mass, the larger the voltage change as we "push" or "pull"
against it. A primary concern is the resistance is not high in our ground
system, and we really know where all the current is so we can calculate
losses.

At the terminals of any fixed potential difference source the current
leaving one terminal must equal the current arriving at the other. The
only way electrons could move off into the earth to never return is if the
electrical potential of the antenna was raised to a high posiutive voltage
and held there, but then current flow would stop. The only way current
flow in one direction could be maintained is if the voltage was constantly
increasing. That is one of the fundemental rules when dealing with charges
and current flow, and it is ALWAYS true.

The minute the generator pulls the feedpoint voltage back towards zero,
everything reverses. When it finally crosses zero everything *MUST* be
back in equilibrium. We can't have lost any electrons. The antenna follows
this rule. So we can't send electrons off anywhere to simply "get lost".
Even if it is at a nice vacation resort for electrons! Just as many
electrons must return as left earlier in the cycle, or we can't reverse
the polairity of the antenna!

>In any antenna setup where there are losses that cannot be easily
>accounted for by conventional circuit theory it is useful to have
>a simpler way to think of it. In any real world setup the return
>of *all* of the ground current *directly* to the xmtr is always in
>doubt. Eventually, all of the energy and charge are accounted for,
>but in my opinion it is not necessary to go through a lot of mental
>gyrations just to justify one particular way of looking at a problem.
>Kirchhoff's laws are great, but they are just one particular example
>of the larger concept of the conservation of charge and energy. The
>example of the battery operated xmtr is an example of this.

I agree with this. As you say, the losses absolutely can not be accounted
for. That is why field strength meters are used to measure system
efficiency rather than trying to measure currents at one point and reach
abstract conclusions. Doubts always remain with current measurements
unless we absolutely know where the current is flowing and what the
resistive losses are in the path,


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world
Date: 24 Dec 1995 02:06:58 GMT
Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4bick2$[e-mail]>
References: <4bh6d7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx02-31.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

I'll jump in against my better judgement.

This has been an interesting thread, invoking Earth capacitance,
displacement currents, the lack of "closed systems", and other
factors to explain what seems to some to be a violation of
Kirchoff's current law.

From all this, is someone claiming that under any circumstances,
you can observe one point in any conductor (regardless of its
connection/non-connection to Earth, the presence of displacement
currents, or the phase of the moon), vectorially add all currents
into that point of the conductor, and get a result other than
zero?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kirchhoff and the entire world
Date: 24 Dec 1995 10:22:04 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 22
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bjr6s$[e-mail]>
References: <4bick2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bick2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Lewallen) writes:

>From all this, is someone claiming that under any circumstances,
>you can observe one point in any conductor (regardless of its
>connection/non-connection to Earth, the presence of displacement
>currents, or the phase of the moon), vectorially add all currents
>into that point of the conductor, and get a result other than
>zero?
>
>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Hi Roy,

We could re-hash everything, but it would be best if you read Doty and
Frey's QST or CQ articles.

If needed, I could repost anything you missed. I have it all in a file.

Merry Christmas Roy,
Tom



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Kirchhoff Rides Again
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:45:29 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk

Happy Holidays to all our readers!


--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:27 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!charles1
From: [e-mail] (charles copeland)
Subject: Re: Kirchoff
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4ben41$[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 18:50:26 GMT
Lines: 27
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <4ben41$[e-mail]>,
 <[e-mail]> wrote:
>OK Tom, let me ask you a question.
>
>Suppose I have a battery operated xmtr sitting on a table, no ground,
>pumping RF to the vertical antenna and some of the RF power is lost
>in the ground. Where is the return ground current?

[reply of radio newbie]

If you have no radials or no ground, I'd say most of your current
is burned up in the radio due to high SWR. Radio waves are created
between the radials and vertical (or connected ground) thereby closing
current loop.

Your return current would go to outside of coax feeding vertical.
What happens to the radio waves after they leave the closed current
loop is of no imporance to the circuit. The earth will absorb radio
waves, but will not flow current in this situation.

>Answer: the return current is next week sometime when I recharge the
>batteries from the 60 Hz power line.
>
>Where is your friend Kirchoff then?

Rolling in his grave?



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kirchoff
Date: 23 Dec 1995 08:50:25 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 68
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bh1f1$[e-mail]>
References: <4ben41$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Bill,

I have a hard time understanding the tone of this. I will treat it as a
serious question, even though it may not be intended that way.

In article <4ben41$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>OK Tom, let me ask you a question.
>Suppose I have a battery operated xmtr sitting on a table, no ground,
>pumping RF to the vertical antenna and some of the RF power is lost
>in the ground. Where is the return ground current?

The system can NEVER have unequal currents at the base of the antenna and
the common point of the radial system if the test setup meets the
following criteria and if measurement methods are without flaw:

1.) The feedline does not act like a radial.

2.) The rig and it's support equipment has very low capacitance (high
impedance) to earth and a *very short* feedline is used. The combined
common mode "electrical mass" or impedance of rig and feedline must be
negligible.

3.) In lieu of two, a simple choke system of adequate impedance is used to
isolate the feeder and rig from the antenna system. In this case the rig
can be grounded or isolated and the feedline can be any length. The
"ground path" through the coax and rig for common mode currents must have
a high common mode impedanvce so they are effectively removed from the
system for those currents.

If the above criteria is met, and no other physical connections exist
between the antenna and the earth (other than through the radial system
measurement point), the net base current and common point ground current
will *always* be exactly identical. This will be completely true
regardless of any losses in the earth system.

The only effect ground losses will have in a properly implemented test is
to reduce the entire antenna system current. Antenna current will drop
exactly in step with total radial current as the ground is made less
efficient.

>Answer: the return current is next week sometime when I recharge the
>batteries from the 60 Hz power line.

I fail to understand the point here. Are you now saying the current
wanders off into the universe and finds it's way back into the electrical
generating station and eventually back to the rig when you recharge the
battery? Or that one post of the battery will have more current than the
other???

>Where is your friend Kirchoff then?

Everywhere in every circuit, as he always is.

It sounds like you may be confusing the effect produced by accelerating
charges in a conductor with electrons actually flying out into the air and
moving things in a receiving antenna.

My antennas all operate on the accelerating charge principle, since I can
transmit more than a foot or two through almost any propagation media.

My TV set CRT operates on the moving electron principle, at least until
the beam hits the screen. It is a fairly short range device, and requires
a "return path" from the screen mask to the cathode of the tube.   ;-)

73,
Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:32 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Kirchoff's Laws
Date: 22 Dec 1995 11:01:36 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 69
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bekp0$[e-mail]>
References: <4bebe5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Bill,
In article <4bebe5$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] writes:

>There has been a lot of antenna and ground plane discussion in
>which Kirchoff's Laws are mentioned as "absolutely unquestionable".
<<<snip>>>>>
>of Mexico. And to argue that it somehow returns from there back to the
>generator is really stretching things a bit. In other words the
>generator is not like some kind of "magnet" or Hoover vacuum cleaner.

I'm sorry Bill, but I both agree and disagree with that. The amount of
current flowing "upwards" in the base of the antenna must equal the
current "returned" to the source from the ground. At the base of the
vertical antenna, if one ampere of total current flow is measured, the net
ground current return must also be one ampere.

Remember if we apply the correct rules in this case, the voltage is
constant from the source. This example follows the analysis of a battery
or AC generator, not an electron gun floating in space.

If it were an object floating in space beaming outr electrons, the voltage
could increase. Such an object emitting electrons into the "universe"
would not need to have a "return path" for current. But the electrical
potential of that object would rapidly increase until electron flow
stopped, or electrons were attacted back to the emitter and it was once
again in balance with the "universe".

In the antenna system we are discussing, it is excited by a generator of
some form. It was not an electron gun.

The generator must have been of finite impedance (fixed ac voltage), and
the current flowing into one terminal of such generator must equal the
current flowing out the other at any given instant of time. Without proper
feedline treatment, the entire path back to that terminal becomes very
"unclear" to us.  We have no idea if the path was lossy or not. In that we
do agree. The only path we can define is the one through low loss highly
conductive radials.

The larger the difference between the net current flowing in the base of
the antenna, and the net current being returned from the relatively low
resistance wire in the radials, the more positive we can be that losses
increased. The most generous thought we can offer is that "we just don't
know". But the most logical and likely thought is the more unequal the
current the greater the loss. Any likelyhood current would find a less
lossy path than via the radial system is very slim to impossible.

>I recently remarked that the Earth is like a huge, lossy capacitor that
>tends to "swallow up" charges and currents. I think this is to some
>extent true and that we should not accept Kirchoff blindly in
>situations that Herr Kirchoff never intended. Power dissipation and
>energy conservation are a lot less controversial. It also accounts for
the
>micro-microwatts that you put into the antenna of that new country that
>you need.

That would only be true if the antenna were "beaming electrons" off into
space. We know from field theory that isn't true (and that is why I hate
the term "displacement currents" so much). We know the fields really
aren't electron currents traveling throug space. If we were transmitting
with an electron gun, that would be true. But the antenna and the earth
(or whatever was "collecting" the electrons) would almost instantly be
many millions of electron volts apart from our generator if no return path
existed.

We certainly can't "spray" a lot of electrons before that happens
(actually not even one for any distance, hi)!

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.uiowa.edu!crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us!SABINW
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Kirchoff's laws
Date: 24 Dec 1995 10:57:12 GMT
Organization: Cedar Rapids Public Library, Cedar Rapids, IA,  52401
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bjbm8$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: crpl.cedar-rapids.lib.ia.us

>is someone claiming that under any circumstances, you can observe one point
>in any conductor, regardless of its connection/non-connection to Earth,
>the presence of displacement currents, vectorially add all currents into that
>point of the conductor, and get a result other than zero?

>Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Reply: "someone" is not claiming any such thing. The article being referred
to deserves to be read more carefully. The claim is (clearly) that the use of
Kirchhoff's laws, in complicated situations, is not the simplest way to accoun
t
for the distribution of current, voltage, energy, charge, etc.  The claim is
that it is often not worthwhile to go into elaborate mental gymnastics
just to satisfy Herr Kirchhoff, when other methods are just as valid.

This is not by any stretch a violation of Kirchhoff' Laws. If I did that
I'm sure the Sheriff would be banging at my door. The basic link is that
if everything is "conserved" then Kirchhoff is satisfied. I thought I
made that clear.

73 and Happy Xmas, William E. (Bill) Sabin W0IYH, a.k.a."someone"


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!news1.opennet.net.au!desire.apana.org.au!troll.apana.org.au!quux.apana.org.au!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Paul Love)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 23 Dec 1995 06:13:01 +1000
Organization: quux -- APANA Redcliffe
Lines: 46
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bf3gd$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: quux.apana.org.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

GARY RAWSON ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
: get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
: October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest
: with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code
: tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it
: to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
: characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
: the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
: start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
: more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
: like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
: do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
: the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first
: started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working
: HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when
: my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air
: are listening it to this year.

: 73's
: Gary
: N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA
: [e-mail]
=============================================>
Hello Gary,
All I can say is how I learned the code. Great idea using the tapes
when I learned they were the best way to go, of course there are now
zillions of morse tutorial programs around. Till you have the alphabet
down pat , stick to sessions of 10 minutes (max 15 ), with the tapes.
This is important as any longer your attention wanders. After you have
the alphabet, then you can step up a bit...both speed and duration.
This is because now it means something to you, and your enjoying it.
About now would be the time to venture onto the bands and copy from air.
Before you know it you'll be copying 12 wpm with ease and enjoying it.


Down here in VK we have slow morse broadcasts, sure ARRL would do the
same , this is ideal, it's fun to look at the pad and see a complete
message written down !

Have Fun Gary... 73 de Paul.
****************************************************************************
*  E-Mail : [e-mail]  | Ax25: vk4xd @ vk4itm.#bne.qld.aus.oc*
****************************************************************************




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:36 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!usenet.cis.ufl.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!brutus.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!lade.news.pipex.net!pipex!dircon!usenet
From: [e-mail] (David Cripps)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 10:40:21 GMT
Organization: Direct Connection
Lines: 35
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4be210$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gw4-090.pool.dircon.co.uk
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.9

[e-mail] says...
>
>Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
>get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
>October 1996.

Gary,

I'm in the same boat at the moment (although the licence names are
different in the UK).

I've approached the code using software on my PC. The one package I'm
using is NuMorse (the latest V1.3 can be downloaded from:

        ftp://hamster.business.uwo.ca/pub/amsoft

another package I've tried was SuperMorse, but had problems with the
dit/dah timing!)

The advice I've been given is (and seems to be working) is to learn
at 15wpm but with long gaps between each letter. As you feel confident
then reduce the times between letters, but keep each letter at 15wpm.
That way you don't listen and try to count the individual dits and
dahs and then convert back,  but listen to the letter, so hearing
"Char-lie-Char-lie" is automatically "C".

(As an aside are there any other little sayings to get the rhythm
of each letter fixed in the mind?)

Good luck


73
Dave Cripps   G7IDB  (now at about 5wpm and slowly improving)



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.flinet.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (KE4WBW)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: LEARNING CW
Date: 24 Dec 1995 04:00:50 GMT
Organization: Florida Internet
Lines: 15
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bij9i$[e-mail]>
References: <4ailsv$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpb64.flinet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
says...
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>
Gary, getting worse as time goes on is normal when copying code, soon you'll
be extending your sessions with a number of practice runs under your belt.
        The next thing you'll probably notice is that your hand absolutly
refuses to move, yes you can hear just fine but the mind to hand connection
is hopelessly lost for a while.
        The main point is just do it. Do it often
--
Henry Silvia        [e-mail]
{KE4WBW}            WPB. FLA



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:38 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!fullfeed!pendragon!ames!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Fingurz)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for parts, please respond!
Date: 25 Dec 1995 04:57:55 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4blsj3$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Fingurz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Trying to find a good source for old radio and radio amplifier components,
chiefly vacuum tubes, paper/wax capacitors and electrolytics. Any
information would be greatly appreciated (name/phone/location etc.) I am a
collector in the Chicago area, and have exhausted all of my local sources.
Thanks again!


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (PaulS1234)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looking for parts, please respond!
Date: 25 Dec 1995 12:18:17 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 15
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bmmcp$[e-mail]>
References: <4blsj3$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (PaulS1234)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

A great source for the type of parts you are seeking is "Antique Radio
Supply"  they are located at:

         6221 S. Maple Avenue
         Tempe, AZ  85283

          Phone:  [phone]
          FAX:     [phone]
          Toll Free FAX:   [phone]

Just ask for their catalog.  Very interesting reading!

Regards,

Paul


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:40 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox
From: "George L. Hiscox" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Looking for parts, please respond!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4blsj3$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 20:54:19 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Lines: 16

[e-mail] (Fingurz) wrote:
>Trying to find a good source for old radio and radio amplifier components,
>chiefly vacuum tubes, paper/wax capacitors and electrolytics. Any
>information would be greatly appreciated (name/phone/location etc.) I am a
>collector in the Chicago area, and have exhausted all of my local sources.

Check out the following web page for a source of old parts:

http://www.1eagle1.com/commercial/pwdco/

--
| George L. Hiscox                 | Very funny Scotty... Now |
| [e-mail]               | beam down my clothes !!! |
| WA6RIK @ WB6YMH.#socal.ca.usa.na | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:41 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.zeitgeist.net!bdt.com!news.ossi.com!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line?
Date: 22 Dec 1995 10:32:16 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 31
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bej20$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi David,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (David Negaard) writes:
>
>Does this in fact work?

It works very well if you use enough turns. I wind mine on 4" PVC
drainpipe like a single layer coil.

>How many turns are appropriate?

The impedance of the choke needs to be as high as you can make it on the
band you are operating, 500 ohms or more of inductance would be enough.
You can find formula's for coils in Handbooks. Roy Lewallen published a
nice list on the net a while ago. The values aren't critical as long as
the coil is big enough.

>Should I do this at the antenna feed-point, the transceiver output, or
>both?

I'd do it at the feedpoint. That is good enough if the feedline comes away
from the antenna at a right angle. If the feedline is still "hot" a second
choke helps. I have sencond chokes here where the lines come into the
house because it helps prevent lightning damage!

>And on a related note, what would be my best choice for feed line?

Whatever you like. At HF on short runs the loss is nil anyway. Just use
good quality stuff.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Tpluther)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line?
Date: 22 Dec 1995 16:21:16 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bf7gc$[e-mail]>
References: <4bej20$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Tpluther)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

Is there a similar puppy to be used for ladder line????or is it not
necessary??
.......................................Ken Luther --- Systems
Analyst........................................


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!psgrain!nntp.teleport.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Roy Lewallen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line?
Date: 23 Dec 1995 04:24:56 GMT
Organization: ELNEC/EZNEC Software
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <4bg0ao$[e-mail]>
References: <4bej20$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip-pdx05-15.teleport.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) writes:
>  Hi David,
>  In article <[e-mail]>,
>  [e-mail] (David Negaard) writes:

>  >Does this in fact work?

>  It works very well if you use enough turns. I wind mine on 4" PVC
>  drainpipe like a single layer coil.

>  >How many turns are appropriate?

>  The impedance of the choke needs to be as high as you can make it on the
>  band you are operating, 500 ohms or more of inductance would be enough.
>  You can find formula's for coils in Handbooks. Roy Lewallen published a
>  nice list on the net a while ago. The values aren't critical as long as
>  the coil is big enough.

Tom's method of winding on a 4" drainpipe probably results in an inductor
(as far as the current on the outside is concerned) with a relatively high
self-resonant frequency, so as he says, the number of turns wouldn't be
critical as long as there are enough. (I don't have a good feel for what
constitutes "enough" -- maybe Tom can elaborate.) If you wind the coax into
a flat coil like a coil of rope, you end up with a broadly resonant circuit
(for current on the outside), and will get the highest impedance and
therefore the most benefit if it's resonant near the frequency of
operation. You can find a list of appropriate numbers of turns and lengths
of cable in the ARRL Handbook. It's Table 19.4 in the 1996 edition, and
appears in Handbooks back to '92 or so.

73,
Roy Lewallen, W7EL



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.iii.net!dts
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Senie)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line?
Date: 23 Dec 1995 14:47:31 GMT
Organization: Daniel Senie Consulting
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4bh4qm$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4bej20$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: peanut.iii.net

In article <4bej20$[e-mail]>,
W8JI  Tom <[e-mail]> wrote:
)Hi David,
)In article <[e-mail]>,
)[e-mail] (David Negaard) writes:
)>
)>Does this in fact work?
)
)It works very well if you use enough turns. I wind mine on 4" PVC
)drainpipe like a single layer coil.

I get the same effect with ferrite beads, by stacking a number of them
over the outside of the coax at the same place as you'd put the turns of coax.

Advantages seem to include a better appearance (i.e. cable is a little
fatter at that point, versus the coil of coax), less coax used up going
'round and 'round the turns (depends on how much you pay for your given coax
if that matters, versus the cost of the ferrites). I'd also be a little
concerned depending on the type of coax with not making too sharp a bend
when making the coil. Foam dielectric coax, and possibly air core (9913)
don't necessarily respond well to this.

)
)>How many turns are appropriate?
)
)The impedance of the choke needs to be as high as you can make it on the
)band you are operating, 500 ohms or more of inductance would be enough.
)You can find formula's for coils in Handbooks. Roy Lewallen published a
)nice list on the net a while ago. The values aren't critical as long as
)the coil is big enough.
)
)>Should I do this at the antenna feed-point, the transceiver output, or
)>both?
)
)I'd do it at the feedpoint. That is good enough if the feedline comes away
)from the antenna at a right angle. If the feedline is still "hot" a second
)choke helps. I have sencond chokes here where the lines come into the
)house because it helps prevent lightning damage!

With the ferrite approach, I place them just below the feedpoint, and
usually have some additional ones either at the entry to the house,
or wherever I do remote switching. There's no harm done adding additional
chokes, and it'll help keep RF that couples onto the feedlines from reaching
the shack.
)
)>And on a related note, what would be my best choice for feed line?
)
)Whatever you like. At HF on short runs the loss is nil anyway. Just use
)good quality stuff.

In your selection, consider your operating power levels, but also consider
the weight of the coax. For some antennas, for example, I use RG8X due
to its light weight when hanging from the feedpoint of a dipole. If the
feedpoint is unsupported, the coax weight will significantly affect the shape
of the antenna.

If you have a very long run to your antennas, heavier coax will be a good idea
.
I've one antenna (R7) which for various reasons is over 300 feet of coax from
the shack. The first 100 feet are on 1/2 heliax which runs to my remote HF
switch, the other 200 feet to the R7 are in a buryable RG8-sized cable
(it's got goo in it of some sort to keep the water from coming in).

--
---------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Senie                 Internet:     [e-mail],
Daniel Senie Consulting                    [e-mail]
http://www.senie.com         Packet Radio: [e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Looped coax isolates feed line?
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 23:13:21 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 20
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bolsq$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (David Negaard) wrote:

>I've heard from several sources that coax, looped about ten times,
>does a good job of isolating feed line, reducing interference

          <<snip>>

Just wanted to mention something in addition to the good advice
already posted.  The higher the impedance of the circuit that the
choke is connected to, the more inductance is required.  Therefore, as
with ferrite beads, this technique is most effective when the antenna
is resonant and the SWR on the feedline is low.

I ran across one guy recently on the air who was using coiled coax as
a choke balun to feed ladder line to his non-resonant dipole.  In
order to keep RF out of the shack on 75 meters, he ended up with a
coil that was something like twenty turns at a six foot diameter. <g>

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (DavidB9608)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: M2 6 meter halo
Date: 23 Dec 1995 09:52:26 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 11
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bh53a$[e-mail]>
References: <4b467v$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (DavidB9608)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I bought the m2 square loop for six meters last spring at
Dayton. It worked very well during the band openings and for local
contacts. I caught one of the early spring openings from florida to
massachusetts and I had the big signal in a pileup running the m2 squared
loop from the roof of my motor home with a ts 60 running 90 watts. It is
very sturdy and seems like a good value I have also since obtained some
several older hipar saturns and the m2 seems to work better and is easier
to set up. The m2 is however very narrow banded  50.100-50.250 with the
peak at 50.125.  The twelth tree I hit after about three months of use
mobile did crack the plastic holder on the top of the m2 but it was easy
to replace.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!news
From: [e-mail] (Bruce Burke Redi)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
Date: 22 Dec 1995 13:04:50 GMT
Organization: Motorola RPG  I.C. Technology Center
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4beadi$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: md20.comm.mot.com

In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (Bill Blohm) writes:
}CPaulien ([e-mail]) wrote:
}: Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
}: metal of a car roof?
}
}Yes. I've used both, mag on the car, drilled and mounted on my old truck.
}Both worked as well as the other. No problems with speed, etc.. Only two
}problems: the hole in the truck when I decided to sell it meant I had to
}do something to fix that and the mag mount didn't do much damage, but it
}did make a mark on the car (since given to my daughter). The mark on the
}car was easily removed with elbow grease. The hole in the truck I filled
}with an old CB antenna I had laying around. Just something to think about
}in the future. With the truck, for a permanent mount I'd make a bracket
}and clamp the mag into that or get one of those hood lip brackets or make
}a bracket that can be attached to existing screws and mount the through
}connector there instead of drilling in the roof.
}
}73 de Bill, KC7JSD


Good point. I would recommend buying an antenna that uses the same mount as a
cellular
antenna. Buy them both at the same time. That way, when you sell, it is just
a matter of a quick swap, and a value added one at that!

73,
Bruce, WB4YUC




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:55 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Mail failure
Date: 22 Dec 95 07:59:00 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 689
Message-ID: <30E5659E@noak>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]


[021] Message was not delivered due to missing routing file.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Precedence: List
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 16:19:28 PST
From: Ham-Ant Mailing List and Newsgroup <[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: List
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #620
To: [e-mail]


Ham-Ant Digest              Thu, 21 Dec 95       Volume 95 : Issue  620

Today's Topics:
                        [Q] Homebrew Hardline?
                           Baloon Scanning
                   Doty article once again (2 msgs)
                           Doty QST Article
                            Ham-Ant Digest
                       Ham-Ant Digest V95 #613
                       Hygain Hytower on 160??
                           Invisible fence?
                   Looped coax isolates feed line?
                     Mag Mount vs drilling a hole
                   Minimum element spacing on yagi
           Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
          References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts'
                     Stuff to build YAGI's with.
                     TVI situation. Suggestions?
       Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?
                       Verticle Antenna for HF

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
Send subscription requests to: <[e-mail]>
Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Ham-Ant Digest are available
(by FTP only) from ftp.UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/ham-ant".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:37:33 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Richard Karlquist)
Subject: [Q] Homebrew Hardline?

In article <4asvei$[e-mail]>,
Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr. <[e-mail]> wrote:
>More years ago than I care to remember!  When we installed a new
>tower, we would make our own hardline using 12 guage copper wire onto
>which were slipped plastic pop-bead spacers, this was placed inside of

Where do you get "plastic pop-bead spacers", whatever those are?


>either a copper or aluminum tube the height of the tower.  A connector
>was soldered to the top of the tube, a vacuum drawn on the tube
>through a little pigtail clamped and soldered.

How do you make the connector hermetic?

>
>My question is, does anyone remember the tube diameter used to do
>this, to achieve approx. 50 ohm impedance?????

Without the beads, the O.D. is 2.3 times the I.D., of course.
For 12 gauge wire (.08 inch), that comes out to .184 O.D.
I don't know what kind of tubing would have that inner diameter,
maybe 1/8 inch iron pipe size hard copper plumbing tubing?
Maybe 1/4 O.D. soft copper tubing (would have to be .033 wall)?

>
>Gary
>KG0ZP

Rick N6RK

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:15:15 GMT
From: [e-mail] ()
Subject: Baloon Scanning

>If this _is_ a workable solution to problems in hilly areas, for instance,
>is there anything you can do to optimize the antenna for better reception
>(like using solid-core wire as opposed to stranded, or using a pair and
>putting an 80 ohm resistor between them so you've got an 80-ohm antenna,
>or placing a "duck" antenna on the baloon and run the wires off that to
>the ground...)

Hi Soren,

Yes, I always fill a 100 meter length of 1/2" copper tubing with 75 Ohms
resistors and suspend it from a baloon. Works great.

Alternatively, you should think about the wavelength (frequencies) of the
signals you want to receive, and what suitable (broad band)
antenna is available.

The best way to raise it is driving your car (+ receiver + antenna)
on a hill top.

Moritz

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 23:21:00 -0300
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Subject: Doty article once again

SS> I have been sitting here, looking at Doty's article and at two
SS> Tables of data that relate antenna current to the radial return
SS> current for two cases 1) radials arranged as a counterpoise
SS> (insulated from ground) and 2) radials arranged as a ground screen
SS> (radials grounded in many places). Here are the results:

             Case 1                   Case 2
       nr radials  %return       nr radials %return
          12         66              12          87
          20         90              20          90
          48        100              48          99

SS> There's something wrong here Tom.  With many radials he is getting
SS> 100% of return current in the radials.  With few radials the thing
SS> that I mentioned previously is happening. Return current is
SS> bypassing the radials and returning to the xmtr by different paths
SS> that bypass the radials.  I don't see anything here that tells where
SS> the xmtr is located or what the transmission line looks like.

SS> My final conclusion is that the author did not account for all the
SS> current paths that ultimately lead back to the xmtr.  But with 48
SS> radials almost all of it returns through the radials.  Somehow the
SS> discussion of this subject has gotten out of whack and you may wish
SS> to read the entire article. If you like I will Fax a copy to you if
SS> you have a Fax.  Otherwise snail mail. Send a fone number or an
SS> address if you want a copy.

Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this
article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low
number of radials and become equal with a higher number of
radials is very simple.  Doty's RF generator was not isolated
from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground
or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps
both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his
experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his
RF generator was located away from the antenna.

This lack of isolation created another path through the ground
for return current.  This path necessarily would be a poor
one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of
radials.  As the radials were increased, the radials began
to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials
completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it
amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one
of high resistance.  When the low resistance path becomes
low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path.

Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48
radials established equality of a ground system of 120
radials is completely erroneous.  In his particular setup
it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the
high resistance of his extraneous ground connection.
I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents,
now equal, would have continued to increase.

He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical
which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution
of his counterpoise.

There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal
currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground
loss.  Others have mentioned phase differences.  Both of
these effects were present, but the fact remains that
Kirchoff's Law continued to hold.  If we had access to an
isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at
the two terminals of the generator and that they would
necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase.

Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present
or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator
current, whose outgoing and return currents would always
be equal.  Kirchoff's Law is not repealed.


 * RM 1.3 02583 * I liked Occam's razor so much I bought the company.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 09:34:55 -0500
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Subject: Doty article once again

Hi Forrest,

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) writes:

>Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this
>article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low
>number of radials and become equal with a higher number of
>radials is very simple.  Doty's RF generator was not isolated
>from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground
>or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps
>both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his
>experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his
>RF generator was located away from the antenna.
>
>This lack of isolation created another path through the ground
>for return current.  This path necessarily would be a poor
>one, but would make its presence visible at a low number of
>radials.  As the radials were increased, the radials began
>to become the main path for return current and at 48 radials
>completely overcame the poor ground return current. What it
>amounts to is paralleling a low resistance path across one
>of high resistance.  When the low resistance path becomes
>low enough, we won't even notice the high resistance path.
>
>Doty's conclusion that equality of current return at 48
>radials established equality of a ground system of 120
>radials is completely erroneous.  In his particular setup
>it merely was the number of radials necessary to overcome the
>high resistance of his extraneous ground connection.
>I'd warrant that had he continued to add radials, the currents,
>now equal, would have continued to increase.
>
>He provided no reading of the self-impedance of the vertical
>which would have allowed us to evaluate the real contribution
>of his counterpoise.
>
>There have been some attempts at explanation of the unequal
>currents of a low number of radials as being due to ground
>loss.  Others have mentioned phase differences.  Both of
>these effects were present, but the fact remains that
>Kirchoff's Law continued to hold.  If we had access to an
>isolated RF generator we would find the currents equal at
>the two terminals of the generator and that they would
>necessarily be 180 degrees out of phase.
>
>Ground loss has nothing to do with this inequality, present
>or not; it would only determine the amount of RF generator
>current, whose outgoing and return currents would always
>be equal.  Kirchoff's Law is not repealed.
>

That is all exactly correct Forrest, and it is the conclusion of many
others. As a matter of fact, nearly all the people I have talked to that
have a lot of practical  antenna experience coupled with educational
background agree with you. I received several E-mails from others that
share that basic opinion. They also wrote and were ignored. Several of us
were told we were the only ones complaining, hi. Your response is the ONLY
logical explaination of the current's that were measured.

The entire issue is very perplexing to me. The conclusions were so very
obviously wrong, and the very valid questions raised by many of us were
ignored. Doty may be a "nice guy". But that doesn't make his conclusions
correct, no more than if he was not "nice" would make him wrong. I can
find no logical technical arguement that supports his conclusions, or any
reason to drag personal feelings into a technical debate. The issues are
measurements and conclusions, not popularity or trust.

On that basis, if it were Mary Tyler Moore, Mr. Rogers, or sweet little
Grover from Sesame Street arguing Doty's point .....they would be
incorrect. If it were Saddam Hussain, Bill Clinton or Newt Gingich arguing
against his point.......they would be correct.

Sorry. That's the way it is in technical discussions.

73,
Tom

------------------------------

Date: 20 Dec 1995 13:38:43 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Terry Burge)
Subject: Doty QST Article

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
writes:
>:
>
>Do take a look at Sevick's article: 'Short Ground-Radial Systems for Short
>Verticals' (QST, April 1978). As well as dealing with short verticals, he
>also considers resonant quarter-wave verticals, and systematically covers
>the effects of the following on radiation efficiency:
>
> * radial length
> * number of radials
> * terminating earth spikes.
>

Excellent article and should be a must for anyone considering putting up
a vertical antenna. This is the article I mentioned in my earlier post
concerning 1/8 and 1/4 wavelength radials and their effects.

>
>I'm just a little surprised that this information didn't go straight into
>the ARRL Antenna Handbook and stay there forever - could anyone cast some
>light on that?
>
A very good question. I can think of atleast a few articles I would
have put in the ARRL Antenna Handbook. And ones I would have left out.
Ever try to build a quad for a particular frequency and find all the
dementions in the handbook are either too short or too long? Try to
find something for 435 Mhz satellite sometime. Even in the Satellite
Handbook you will find they just don't give much. Basic practical theory
articles are sadly lacking when you need to calculate measurements
and/or want to know what effect something(s) will have. Not to mention
how something works.

Glad G3SEK found that article and mentioned it. Now to see if I still
have the magazine.

Terry
KI7M

------------------------------

Date: 20 Dec 1995 20:52:29 GMT
From: [e-mail] (xcitor)
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest

Does anyone know how I can subscribe to this list?

------------------------------

Date: 22 Dec 95 00:09:12 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #613

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (GARY RAWSON) wrote:

> Hello, I am N8VVD and currently have a NO CODE TECH license (I will
> get flamed for this). I have a goal of gettin my General before
> October 1996. I am wanting to do the Jamboree over the air contest
> with my Cub Pack (I am currently a den leader). I bought Morse code
> tapes from Radio Shack (the one with 4 tapes & goes to learning it
> to 13 WPM). I am following their lesson plan and I have about 15
> characters down for the 5 WPM. I noticed that the longer I go
> the more characters I miss. In another words when I first
> start I hardly miss any, 5 minutes into it I miss a little
> more, then 10 minutes into in I miss a little more. It seems
> like a draw a blank on character that I know. Does anybody
> do this to. I am open to any suggestion on procedures on learning
> the code. I have no Elmer, just doing by myself. When I first
> started in Amateur Radio I didn't have any interest in working
> HF but after 3 years I started to think about upgrading. And when
> my son join Cub Scouts I am really wanting to do the Jamboree-on-the-air
> are listening it to this year.
>
> 73's
> Gary
> N8VVD@KC8JN.#EOH.OH.USA.NA
> [e-mail]

Gary, when I first started I did not have the benefit of an elmer, just
a technical background and a desire to get the license.  For my first
exam, I used Wayne Green's (73 Magazine) code tapes, consisting of
coded groups sent at around 15 wpm.  I learned the code that way but
got hung up on always expecting groups of 4 or 5 letters.  Plain text
isn't like that.  I managed to pass the exam but by the skin of my
teeth.  When I upgraded to extra, I used a combination of the 73
Magazine tapes and W1AW ( I now had a rig).  I used the high speed run
and worked from the fast stuff down to the slow stuff.  It was much
easier and passing the test was not as difficult.  You have to find out
what works best for you.  Just beware the code tapes.  The plain text
can be memorized, and the coded groups can lull you into a false sense
of security.  Try to listen to some plain text, either on the air or
generated by a computer.  Good luck.
de Rick, KN3C

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 01:37:54 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Gary McDuffie, Sr.)
Subject: Hygain Hytower on 160??

On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 04:00:45 GMT, [e-mail] wrote:


> Some time ago I seen an article where someone placed a 40 meter trap
> at the top of 40 metre radiator and then tied a wire to that to make
> an inverted L out of the Hytower.

> On mine I tied a 60 foot wire at the top of the 80 metre radiator to
> make an inverted L.  I matched it on 160 through a tapped coil to
> ground.  It had about 100 kHz of band width.  As I remember, I
> switched in a  series capacitor to tune it on 80.

> I hope this helps.

That's the way mine came.  There is a Hy-Gain 40m trap attached to the top
of the tower and then some wire making up the top of the I-L.  The reason
it is a 40m trap is because it is attached to the top of the 40 meter
"element" of the Hy-Tower.  That is not to say it is at the top of the 40m
stub, but the top of the tower is only used on 40m.  This is also
documented in the manual for the Hy-Tower.

Hi Ron!  Good to "see from you" again.
  __              _   __  __
 / _ _ _    __   /_| / _ /  )/| )
(__)(// (/      (  |(__)(__// |/
        /
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 05:01:13 GMT
From: sholisky <[e-mail]>
Subject: Invisible fence?

My neighbor just put in an "invisible dog fence". I can just see
"fluffy" doing the jig when I fire up on 40 cw....Anybody have one of
these modern devices or knows how they respond to RFI (overload) ?

Tnx 73's Scott WBxATR

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 18:57:51 GMT
From: [e-mail] (David Negaard)
Subject: Looped coax isolates feed line?

I've heard from several sources that coax, looped about ten times,
does a good job of isolating feed line, reducing interference to
household devices (I blew up my answering machine the first time I
keyed my transmitter with coax feed to an inverted V).  My questions
are:

Does this in fact work?
How many turns are appropriate?
Should I do this at the antenna feed-point, the transceiver output, or
both?

And on a related note, what would be my best choice for feed line?

Thanks for any and all help!

--
David Negaard                   o San Diego District Youth Executive
625 Shenandoah Avenue           o aquarist
San Marcos, CA  92069           o linux-phile
[e-mail]          o 73 de KB0PXK
--
David Negaard                   o San Diego District Youth Executive
625 Shenandoah Avenue           o aquarist
San Marcos, CA  92069           o linux-phile
[e-mail]          o 73 de KB0PXK

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 20:31:10 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jerry Gardner)
Subject: Mag Mount vs drilling a hole

CPaulien ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Does a mag mount antenna work as well as one attached directly to the
: metal of a car roof?

No. It is always preferable, from a technical point of view, to mount
the antenna permanently. Go ahead and drill a hole and use an NMO
mount. The installation looks much neater, and you don't have to worry
about the coax getting crushed and deformed by the door or window,
or whatever else you're routing it through. You don't see mag mounts
on police, fire, or service vehicles, do you?

: Also is there much advantage to using two separate antennas (VHF & UHF)
: with a duplexer as compaired to a dual band antenna.  I just purchased a
: dual band HT and am planning to install one or more antennas on my car. I
: am not afraid to drill holes in the roof if I thought  it would be an
: advantage to do so.

There is an advantage, but not much, to using monoband antennas. Traps
can be lossy and should be avoided if possible.
--
Jerry Gardner          | Maintainer of the Large Format Digest
[e-mail]    | Send subscription requests to [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 18:39:35 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ed E Jensen)
Subject: Minimum element spacing on yagi

Steve Work ([e-mail]) wrote:
> Why is the minimum spacing of elements on a yagi 0.15 times the
> wavelength?  What if you try to design one with the elements closer
> together (i.e half this distance)?  How does this degrade the
> performance of the antenna?  Reduced gain?  Less bandwidth?

Actually a spacing as small as .1 wavelength will yield a working yagi
but you will have to detune the parasitics considerably (make the reflector
longer and the director shorter) to get acceptable bandwidth (bw) and
radiation resistance (Rr) at the sacrifice of gain.  Lower Rr results
in harder matching and lower efficiency (and therefore lower gain since
gain is actually efficiency times directivity) since the loss resistance (Rl)
is then a higher proportion of the total antenna impedance.

For example, a 20m beam
on a 14 boom (.2wave total) yields about 5 dBd gain and still covers the
whole 20m band with an swr of less than 2:1 and with a Rr of about 25 ohms.
You can get more gain (about a dB more) by tuning the parasitics for a
more restricted BW (about 100 kHz) and lower Rr (about 12 ohms).

Doubling the length of the boom gets the gain up to 8 dBd and still covers
the whole band and the Rr is even higher (about 35 ohms).

The problem is even more acute with trapped elements since they have
lower bw and higher Rl due to trap resonance and loss and shortened
elements.

In general the wider the spacing between parasitic elements,
the closer you can tune them to the operating frequency (resulting in
more gain)  and still have acceptable bw and Z.

In fact, I think an acceptable way to tune
yagi parasitics is to make the reflector as short as you can and the
director as long as you can and still have an swr bw that covers the band
of interest.

Hope this was of interest and helped.

73, Ed, K5ED, MSEE, ARRL TA, Electronics instructor Dona Ana College

(Not to toot my horn, but I thinks it helps if you know the qualifications
of the people giving advice and opinions)

--
Ed Jensen, K5ED, El Paso, TX ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: 20 Dec 95 22:59:31 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG)
Subject: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions

Anyone familiar with these?  I just picked one up at a very good price
and it looks pretty good on the inside.  It covers 80-10 I am told,
and the roller inductor looks right for the job.

Did the UT-2000B cover 160?  If so, did they switch in extra inductance
or add a longer roller inductor?  I would like to add 160 to my UT-2000A
and suspect it is a simple job with a sturdy switch.  Or maybe I can
find the UT-2000B for my 160 antenna :-) .

Also, I think I recall someone on the antenna group stating that the
"ultimate transmatch" design had one of the capacitors doing something
silly....  There is a two ganged capacitor that is doing something
useless?  Just wonder if anyone remembers the comments or has a reference
to it.

Thanks.

Clark
WA3JPG

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 17:35:29 GMT
From: "Keith W. Whites" <[e-mail]>
Subject: References for Complex Math behind 'Smith Charts'

[e-mail] (Henry Baker) wrote:
>Does anyone have a reference to the mathematics behind the so-called 'Smith
>Charts' used by microwave engineers to match impedences.  They look to me
like
>stereographic projections of the complex plane, but perhaps someone else
knows
>a real reference to this mathematical mapping.

Actually, the Smith Chart is simply a bilinear transformation.  These types
of
transformations map circles in one plane into circles in another plane.
Lines are
just special cases of a circle -- i.e., degenerate circles.  This bilinear
tranformation maps normalized total impedance (admittance) on the TL into the
complex
generalized reflection coefficient plane.

>If I can't find anything else, I'll look up Smith's original articles, which
>I think were published in 1939 and 1945.

That's correct.  I'm fortunate enough to own one of the original 1945 copies
which is
the "revised" Smith Chart.  But most introductory EM or transmission line
texts have
a reasonable discussion on the topic.  See for example the text by Paul and
Nasar
"Introduction to Electromagnetic Fields."

______________________________________________________________________
Keith W. Whites                            e-mail: [e-mail]
Assistant Professor
Department of Electrical Engineering       Tele: [phone]
University of Kentucky                     FAX:  [phone]
453 Anderson Hall
Lexington, KY  40506-0046

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 95 16:16:36 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Rick Ruhl)
Subject: Stuff to build YAGI's with.

Steve:

That would have been my first choice (a hamfest) but it's not hamfest
season.  It'll be March/April before the hamfest's start again.

------------------------------

Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:48:22 -0500
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Subject: TVI situation. Suggestions?

In article <4bc5fo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail](Dan
Walker ) writes:

>
>Anyone like to solve TVI puzzles?
>
>
Hi Dan,

First of all describe the TVI. Is it on all channels, or on one or two?
What channels?

The rig has a low pass, what type?

What type of hi-pass?

Do you have common mode chokes?

Is the TV on cable or an antenna?

Did you disconnect the VCR's and related stuff and only try the TV?

------------------------------

Date: 20 Dec 1995 23:49:59 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Dan Walker )
Subject: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?

I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the
shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to
the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI.

What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack
which is 75ohms (i think)

Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit?

73 de KE6LBX

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:38:21 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Henry J Newland)
Subject: Verticle Antenna for HF

Has anyone out there tried to homebrew a verticle for 30 to 10 mtrs?
Comments on success would be appreciated.
Does anyone have plans for such a beast?
Details of available articles and locations would be appreciated.


VK3HN, Bendigo, Victoria, Australia.

------------------------------

Date: (null)
From: (null)

73 Tom

------------------------------

End of Ham-Ant Digest V95 #620
******************************


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:56 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.tek.com!netman.ens.tek.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Terry Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Merry Christmas to All
Date: 22 Dec 1995 13:23:58 -0800
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR, USA
Lines: 7
Message-ID: <4bf7le$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: netman.ens.tek.com

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and/or happy Hannaka.

Now, to put this quad back up in the air after the 'blow of 95'.

Terry
KI7M



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:57 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to All
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 17:22:02 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4bhdt3$[e-mail]>
References: <4bf7le$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip110.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Terry Burge) wrote:

>Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and/or happy Hannaka.

>Now, to put this quad back up in the air after the 'blow of 95'.

>Terry
>KI7M

Merry Christmas to you Terry!


                (_(__,         (_(__,         (_(__,         (_(__,
                   /~._           /~._           /~._           /~._
          , _ __ / /~~~  , _ __ / /~~~  , _ __ / /~~~  , _ __ / /~~~
          `( )---))------`( )---))------`( )---))------`( )---))
           /\~~~`\        /\~~~`\        /\~~~`\        /\~~~`\
         / /   / /      / /   / /      / /   / /      / /   / /
        `  `   ` `     `  `   ` `     `  `   ` `     `  `   ` `
     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *
      S E A S O N ' S   G R E E T I N G S   T O   Y O U  &  Y O U R S!
!
     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* *

Gary - KG0ZP




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:58 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas to All
Date: 23 Dec 1995 15:26:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bholg$[e-mail]>
References: <4bhdt3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Merry Christmas,

Tom W8JI


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:19:59 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!cobia.gulf.net!ppp58
From: [e-mail] (MHM)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
Date: 22 Dec 1995 04:15:43 GMT
Organization: The Gulf Coast Internet Company
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4bdbdf$[e-mail]>
References: <4a7j00$[e-mail]> <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp58.gulf.net
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25117 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17927

In article <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>,
   Chad Payne <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> I just saw some antennas at Radio Shack that look just like cell phone
>> antennas (coupled through the glass).  That looks perfect if the
>> quality is reasonable.  They are specifically listed as CB antennas.
>> Does anyone know how well these work?  Would performance be close to
>> the whip, somewhere in between, or about the same as the flexible one?
>> Any comments...

>These cell phone look alike antennas work but not very well...

Concur with the above.  As a general rule of thumb, the more physical space
the antenna occupies, the better.  As long as its impedance matches.  If it
doesn't, good buy tranmitter.

The antennas in question use a matching network to keep from toasting the
transmitter.  Most of your power is wasted in the transformation.  Have fun!

:-)

[e-mail] | Poor planning on your part
                | does not constitute a crisis
                | on my part...


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:00 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
Date: 22 Dec 1995 12:23:41 GMT
Organization: IONet
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <4be80d$[e-mail]>
References: <4a7j00$[e-mail]> <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]> <4bdbdf$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osip08.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: [e-mail]
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25123 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17928

[e-mail] (MHM) wrote:

  As a general rule of thumb, the more physical space
>the antenna occupies, the better.

I agree

  As long as its impedance matches.  If it
>doesn't, good buy tranmitter.

I disagree

>The antennas in question use a matching network to keep from toasting the
>transmitter.  Most of your power is wasted in the transformation.  Have fun!
>

I disagree. The impedance match has nothing to do with the
efficiency of an antenna. Actually on shortend antennas except
under certain circumstances the greater the mismatch the better
the antenna. Just compare a Hustler to a bugcatcher without a
matching network. After all a dummy load is a perfect match.
The greatest misconception in ham radio is that SWR (and
bandwith) is a measure if how good an antenna is.

The power lost is a function of the ratio of radiation
resistance to ground resistance and resistances in the antenna
itself.

73 Hank WA5JRH



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:01 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (ZANDOR1)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
Date: 24 Dec 1995 21:46:46 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 2
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bl3am$[e-mail]>
References: <4be80d$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (ZANDOR1)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25197 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18007

If that is true about the SWR then what is the most important thing for a
mobile antenna if not the SWR matching?????


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:03 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsat!engineer.mrg.uswest.com!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news3.near.net!sol.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!bjkpma
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 18:35:28 EST
From: <[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.cb,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mobile CB antenna question
References: <4a7j00$[e-mail]>
 <Pine.BSD/[e-mail]>
 <4bdbdf$[e-mail]>
Lines: 2
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.cb:25207 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18024

I've used the cellular-phone type cb radio antenna, and it really,
didn't work so well...the only good thing was that the antenna cord
didnt have to pass through the window....


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:04 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.equipment
Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 21:24:16 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bdtv4$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:17926 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:22909

   [e-mail] (Clark Savage Turner WA3JPG) wrote:

>Also, I think I recall someone on the antenna group stating that the
>"ultimate transmatch" design had one of the capacitors doing
>something silly....  There is a two ganged capacitor that is doing
>something useless?

In "Reflections", Maxwell states that the lower portion of the split
stator capacitor (which shunts the transmitter) contributes nothing to
the matching function.  He goes on to say that the same is true of the
shunt output capacitors in the Johnson Matchbox, and that they can be
lifted off ground without affecting the match.

In other words, according to Maxwell, these capacitors serve no useful
purpose.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:05 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Date: 23 Dec 1995 09:26:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 33
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bh3in$[e-mail]>
References: <4bdtv4$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4bdtv4$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>
>In "Reflections", Maxwell states that the lower portion of the split
>stator capacitor (which shunts the transmitter) contributes nothing to
>the matching function.  He goes on to say that the same is true of the
>shunt output capacitors in the Johnson Matchbox, and that they can be
>lifted off ground without affecting the match.
>
>In other words, according to Maxwell, these capacitors serve no useful
>purpose.
>
>73,
>Jack  WB3U

Hi Jack,

I've been meaning to pull my Matchbox apart and measure that. I suspect
that is true to some extent because I build single ended link coupled
tuners using a series cap to the load and a shunt cap across the coil.
Neither is a  differential cap.

The ciruit works well on almost all loads. I know if unhook the section he
is talking about in the Murch (McCoy style) tuner very little changes, but
it does change a tiny bit.

I suspect a better statement is the metal plates could be put to better
use somewhere else in the tuner, like the cabinet or another cap.....hi.

Merry Xmas,

Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:06 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!meaddata!newsjunkie.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Date: 26 Dec 1995 08:52:19 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 53
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4boumj$[e-mail]>
References: <4boks8$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4boks8$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>
>If I use a coil that is capable of covering 160 - 10 meters, there
>will be a large number of turns shorted out when it's used on the
>higher bands.  I've found references to the undesirability of doing
>this, but no specific guidelines.  Is there any way I can determine
>beforehand what the limit is regarding the maximum number of turns
>that can be shorted out along the coil?  I assume the problem is that
>the shorted turns reduce the Q, thereby increasing losses.  (?)

Hi Jack,

Shoorting turns isn't a big problem with air wound coils, as a matter of
fact it is usually a necessity.

Use a space wound coil. A longer coil small diameter coil is better than a
short large diameter coil when the turns are shorted. And try to pick a
switch that only shorts the tap being used and ONE other tap.

Let me explain why. Let's say you use a coil that has a switch common
connected to the hot end, and taps progressively closer to the link. As
the switch is moved closer to the smallest inductance tap, the amount of
coil hanging in the middle of the switch contacts increases. Eventually
stray capacitance in the center of the area between the common of the
switch and the tap selected tunes the many turns between those point to
resonance in a Ham band like 15 or ten meters. So when the main tap is on
ten or 15 the coil often has a spurious resonance near the same band.

That resonance either causes the tuner to "quit tuning" or arc over. What
I do is add another contact to short the middle of the coil out to the
common and hold it shorted as the contact is moved to the higher band
positions. There are other ways to do it, but this way minimizes losses.

My circuit isn't so complicated. I was thinking of publishing it and not
providing details so I could sell kits <grin>. Seriously, just link couple
to the coil with a tapped link, and parallel tune the coil with one cap
and series tune the load with another. It tunes real smooth, and no need
to move a tap around for different load impedances.

>Incidentally, there's another practical problem with the "balun first"
>concept that I hadn't thought of before.  Namely, a local SW or BCB
>station can induce significant common-mode voltages on a long run of
>transmission line.  The balun doesn't do a thing to discourage these
>signals from entering the receiver, neither will the balanced Pi or T.
>Only a magnetic (low-capacitance) link will solve this problem.

A choke balun does. But then we are back to the arguement that moving a
choke balun does virtually nothing to improve things, so it might as well
be on the antenna side! Hi.

73 Tom


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:07 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!cs.utep.edu!rgfn.epcc.edu!ae351
From: [e-mail] (Joe G Wesley)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need help portable 2M/440
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 04:42:01 GMT
Organization: The Rio Grande Free-Net, El Paso Community College, El Paso, TX
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 8

Can anyone give me some idea as to a homebrew 2M/440 antenna that
I can take camping?  Can a J Pole be made of that combination?

If you can give me some help, please email [e-mail]

thanks,

joe


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:08 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news1.digital.com!decwrl!pagesat.net!sloth.swcp.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Brian Mileshosky)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need help portable 2M/440
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:45:39 GMT
Organization: Southwest Cyberport
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4bhm8s$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp24.swcp.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55

[e-mail] (Joe G Wesley) wrote:

>Can anyone give me some idea as to a homebrew 2M/440 antenna that
>I can take camping?  Can a J Pole be made of that combination?

>If you can give me some help, please email [e-mail]

>thanks,

>joe

You bet it can.  I don't know how though, but I have seen it done.
Also, look in QST for the company Antennas West.  They sell what are
called "Pico-J's".  It is just a J-Pole built out of twin-lead, and
they make a dual-band version.  I have just the 2 meter version, and
it is a champ!  Good luck!
Best of 73 and Merry Christmas,
Brian, N5ZGT...

________________________________________________________________________
 Boy Scouts of America                   Amateur Radio
  J.A.S.M. - Troop 41                     Call: N5ZGT
    Albuquerque, NM           Packet: N5ZGT @ KC5IZT.ALBQ.NM.USA.NA
 Great Southwest Council           Internet: [e-mail]
    O.A. Lodge 66
________________________________________________________________________



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:09 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gte.net!news
From: "Adam G. Lottes" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Need help portable 2M/440
Date: 25 Dec 1995 17:08:07 GMT
Organization: GTE Intelligent Network Services, GTE INS
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4bmlpn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dfw70005.gte.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22KIT (Windows; U; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

My J pole looks like this

   |       -
   |        |
   ||       |
   ||440    |
   |        |
   |        | 144/147 total length
   |        |
   |        |
   ||       |
   ||       |
   ||       |
   ||      -

Standard coax feed at the base. 440 goes up through the 2 meter tube and exits
 through a hole at
the base of the 440 for a standard coax feed. 2 meters does,t even know 440 is
 there.

Sorry Don't know recall dimensions, but are standard sizes. By the way antenna
 works great. At
the top of a 50' tower normally work 30-60 miles.

Hope this helps.

George NF9D



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:10 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!news.net99.net!news.localnet.com!usenet
From: "Peter C. McNulty" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,re
Subject: Re: New Ham Web Site with Information Content
Date: 25 Dec 1995 16:53:54 GMT
Organization: LocalNet Corporation
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4bmkv2$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp11.conn.localnet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:[e-mail]
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18015 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13336 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:23055 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12367 rec.radio.amateur.misc:96046 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32335 rec.radio.amateur.space:6015

Also see WEB Site at for interesting Ham Radio
Links.URL:http://www.localnet.com/~wa1sov/




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:11 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.accessone.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Ed Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur,rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.digital,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.packet,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.space,re
Subject: Re: New Ham Web Site with Information Content
Date: 27 Dec 1995 22:27:56 GMT
Organization: Virtual Publishing Co.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4bsh9c$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4bmkv2$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vbook.accessone.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18067 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13357 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:23128 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12399 rec.radio.amateur.misc:96136 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32348 rec.radio.amateur.space:6028

In article <4bmkv2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>
>Also see WEB Site at for interesting Ham Radio
>Links.URL:http://www.localnet.com/~wa1sov/
>
>

Check out Ham Radio Online at
http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm

Newsletters, Feature Stories, Real-time solar and radio propagation conditions
,
real-time disaster communications news (world wide earthquake, volcanic and
severe weather reports). In short, real content, not just pointers to
hyperspace.

73, Ed, KF7VY
------------------------
personal email to [e-mail]
Visit Ham Radio Online, it's free, at
http://www.accessone.com/~vbook/hronline.htm



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:13 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Noisy Mobile Antenna ... suggestions?
Organization: MOTOROLA
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:31:06 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (SCHBBS News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 129.188.159.81
Lines: 21

Probably this is a problem for which a solution is well-known, except
to relative newcomers such as I am.

I revently mounted a Larsen KulGlas antenna, 2m/70cm, about 29" long,
near the outer end of the rear-facing window of my full-sized pickup.
Most of it of course extends higher than the roof line.  At any speed
of more than about 30mph, the antenna emits a very audible and
annoying "wind noise".

I've been told (have not seen) that a similar problem, with some
standard thin auto antennas (fender-mounted), was solved simply by
coating the antennas with vinyl.  So, I'm wondering whether covering
this antenna with heat-shrink (and shrunk) tubing, or something
similar, would help.  By the way, this antenna does have the typical
spiral coil near its center.

If anyone knows whether that would work, or has a better idea, I'd
appreciate some good advice.

Thanks and 73,
Tony   KC7HDT


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:13 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Outbacker Perth Plus
Date: 26 Dec 1995 01:32:45 GMT
Organization: IONet
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4bnjbt$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osip90.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (William Collins) wrote:
 Would a multi-band dipole and tuner be more
>effective at home that the OB?

A multi-band dipole would be far mor effective. You can't fight
physics, more antenna is better antenna. The outbacker is one
of the poorer mobile antennas. It you have space limitations
and insist on using a mobile antenna use a bugcatcher. I think
you will find the outbacker almost unusable on 80 meters.

73 Hank WA5JRH



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:14 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!matlock.mindspring.com!news.mindspring.com!user-168-121-69-102.dialup.mindspring.com!user
From: [e-mail] (William Collins)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Outbacker Perth Plus
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 19:22:02 -0600
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-168-121-69-102.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.1.5

Hi everyone,
I╣ve just received an ICOM 706 and heard about the OB Perth Plus which
would cover HF plus 6 and 2 meters. Does anyone have any experience with
this antenna? Would I need an antenna tuner with the 706 and OB PP? Also,
can this antenna be put in service at home? What kind of counterpoise
would be effective for the antenna? I will probably mount it on our
balcony if I use it as a base. Would a multi-band dipole and tuner be more
effective at home that the OB? Any comments would be helpful, thanks in
advance.

--
Regards,
William Collins
Atlanta, GA
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:15 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Ted Viens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas
Date: 24 Dec 1995 05:38:03 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4biovr$[e-mail]>
References: <4b9jgi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-hou1-20.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Dec 23  9:38:03 PM PST 1995

In <4b9jgi$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Stanley L.
Flegler) writes:
>
>There was a recent posting where gray colored sunlight resistant PVC
was
>mentioned.  I was not aware of this material.  Is normal white PVC
>subject to failure from sunlight?  If so, what time frame and
reduction
>in strength are we talking about.  PVC is mentioned several times in
the
>new ARRL antenna book, but I see no mention of sunlight.  I have made
>numerous things out of white PVC including trap covers and some
supports
>and now I'm concerned.  73 Stan K8RPA
>
I wouldn't bother losing any sleep over this.  There are thousands of
feet of white PVC water pipes that have been exposed to sunlight for
years and there are no reports of mass floodings.  My real purpose in
responding is that my local Home Depot was selling the grey PVC
electrical conduit cheaper in the electrical section than the white PVC
in the plumbing section.  So its like you can have your cake and eat it
too...
--
Bye...  Ted..
Deep in the Heart of the Armpits of Houston, Texas...


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:16 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!pacifier!mac1.pacifier.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Quad Antenna Design Software?
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:52:38 -0800
Organization: Are you kidding???
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4avfkb$[e-mail]> <4b56i5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac1.pacifier.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0

In article <4b56i5$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter
D.Richeson) wrote:

> I have used AO for several ant's 3 quads (Have built 2 and both seem to
> work) and 3 Jpolls.  The two 2M versions went together with no tweking.  The

> 440 need some adjusting.
>
> AO is easy to use and it gives you a pix of the ant which is nice.

And just where do you get this little gem? I've looked in all of the
archive sites that I can think of.

Gary
---
[e-mail]   <-----====()====----->   http://www.pacifier.com/~gsnow/
Vancouver, WA's  On-Ramp  to  the  Information  SuperHighway   [phone]
telnet to "pods.pacifier.com" (press return 2x) or dial the above to register


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:17 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!pooh.freenet.mb.ca!winnie.freenet.mb.ca!snp346
From: Jason Piush <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Radio Shack discone antenna -- help
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 01:10:54 -0600
Organization: Blue Sky FreeNet of Manitoba Inc.
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: winnie.freenet.mb.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hi all....

One of my gifts this year was a RS discone antenna.  I have heard that
the reception under 100 mhz leaves a little to be desired because the
antenna lacks an element on the top.

My question is as follows....does anyone have knowledge of how I could
mount an element on the top of the antenna to improve reception below 100
mhz?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
______________________________________________________________________________
                            |
Jason Piush                 |
Winnipeg, Canada            |       RESERVED FOR FURTHER DEVELOPEMENT
[e-mail] |
____________________________|_________________________________________________



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:19 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!istar.net!news1.ottawa.istar.net!fonorola!news.ottawa.istar.net!news.achilles.net!usenet
From: Mel Massia <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Repeater Antennas
Date: 22 Dec 1995 16:35:54 GMT
Organization: Achilles Internet Services, Ottawa, ON
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4bempa$[e-mail]>
References: <4aacf6$[e-mail]> <4aic2h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: p26-annex1.achilles.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

[e-mail] (Brian Williams) wrote:
>In article <4aacf6$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
>>
>>Repeater Operators:
>>
>>Noise Problem
>>
>>A Hustler G-6 was used for several years, but was damaged by the wind and
>>replaced by the Cushcraft stacked dipoles about a year ago. Great care was
>>taken to make sure the connections to the phasing harness was sound,
>>taped, and Scotch Coated, but a problem has developed.
>
>>Anyone have experience with the Comet or the Diamond antennas (fiberglass)
>>as a repeater antenna.  I'm sure the best approach would be to use a
>>commercial grade antenna, but due to limited funds, we're considering
>>alternatives.
>
>>Your comments and experience are welcomed. Thanks again.
>
>>Jerry  KE7UA - Livonia, MI
>>EX - WA8HHM, WB4QVD, WB8LNF & DL4PY
>>Requested on behalf of my brothers, WB8NJS - Denny & K8ARE - Nelson.
>>147.225  located in Bethel, Ohio (Clermont County).
>
>Jerry, I have no suggestions for your problem mentioned at the start
>of your message, however, I can answer your question about using
>Diamond and Comet antennas as a repeater antenna.  They are not
>as rugged as SOME of the commercial antennas, but if you are not
>in an extremely windy location, they will hold up nicely.  Mine
>(a Comet) has been in service for 2.  One problem showed up in the
>base load section and was repaired by Comet.  The only other disadvantage
>IMO is the lack of any downward tilt in radiation pattern which
>exists in SOME of the commercial antennas.  This can make a difference
>when on a high mountain top repeater location.
>(I know what it's like to be shy on funds.)
>Anyway, good luck on your installation.  I'm using the 17'6" (approx)
>Comet and a friend of mine is using Diamonds version of the same thing.
>
>73, Brian  N6ZAU
>
Jerry, name here is Mel....we have had a Comet dual-band rptr ant up for 2
and half yaers now with no problems...both rptrs are functioning just FB.
Well that's abt all the words of wisdom I have to offer...
73, Mel VE3OJN



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:20 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nwnews.wa.com!nwfocus.wa.com!calvino.alaska.net!nntp.alaska.net!usenet
From: Richard Dowling <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Sailboat antennas
Date: 27 Dec 1995 03:48:08 GMT
Organization: Internet Alaska Inc.
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <4bqflo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rpd.alaska.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

Does anyone have experience with HF antennas on sailboats?  I'm wondering
particularly about what length of backstay works the best, 1/4, 5/8 wave
or what?  Thanks Richard



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:21 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Rhyolite95)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: SEEKING 50-75 ft self supporting TOWERS
Date: 27 Dec 1995 02:10:29 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 4
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bqrh5$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Rhyolite95)

I am looking for a 50 to 75 foot self supporting tower in the south
georgia north florida area.

Reply to [e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:21 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news1!ts00-ind-24
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Croft)
Subject: SEEKING ROHN 45/55 TOWERS
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ts00-ind-24.iquest.net
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Keywords: TOWERS
Sender: [e-mail] (News Admin)
Organization: IQuest Network Services
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #2.1
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 16:09:10 GMT
Lines: 11

I'm hunting sections of Rohn 45 and/or 55 towers, and the various hardware acc
essories that go with them.  Additionally,
I'd be interested in buying a Dick Webber (RTS)  rotating tower system for Roh
n 25,45,55.

With all the swap nets, corners of garages holding 'spares', and plans that ge
t changed, keep this WTB in mind
when you hear someone looking to sell!

Thanks!                       WB9IQI  -  Patrick Croft
                                  Daytime Tel:[phone]
                                          Fax:[phone]
                                        email:[e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.ultranet.com!usenet
From: Rob Bellville <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Short Helical (<2ft) for 27 MHz
Date: 26 Dec 1995 19:20:37 GMT
Organization: Web Page Creation Services
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4bphu5$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: col18.online.ultranet.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)

Hi!

I need to build 15 short helicals for short range communications via CB
Radio. These antenna will need to be mounted to the back of the radio for
neighborhood crime watch communications of < 1 mile.

Any ideas? I don't want to buy 15 antennas at Radio Shack since its
coming out of my pocket. BTW, I am looking for old CB Radios to donate to
this group. If you've got an old CB laying around please consider helping
us out.

Thanks!

- Rob

--
..........................................................
 Rob Bellville, N1NTE                           PO Box 515
 [e-mail]                  Millbury, MA 01527
..........................................................
           http://www.ultranet.com/~bellvill/
..........................................................




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:23 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!malgudi.oar.net!news.rcinet.com!sally.dma.org!millersg
From: [e-mail] (Steve Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stuff to build YAGI's with.
Date: 20 Dec 1995 16:29:28 GMT
Organization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio, USA
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4b9dl8$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dmapub.dma.org

In article <[e-mail]>, Rick Ruhl <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Fellow hams:
>
>Can anyone give me advice on where to find the following parts.  I'm
>trying to build a 20 meter short yagi from the 1978 handbook, and no
>one seems to know what I'm talking about or where I can get it.
>
>1. 1-1/8 in dia Plexiglas rod (for winding the coils on) sources or
>1995-96 options are appreciated.
>
>2. 140 pf Variable Capacitor or a 1995-6 equvilant.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If no one knows what you're talking about - you're asking the wrong people!
Go to a local hamfest and check the flea market.
--
Steve Miller     WD8IXE
[e-mail]


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:24 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!vulcan.netdepot.com!news
From: [e-mail] (John M. Bohls)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: test
Date: 25 Dec 1995 18:26:33 GMT
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <4bmqcp$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ioh2.netdepot.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.4

hello, this is a test.



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:25 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sundog.tiac.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!idir.net!usenet
From: Ken Johnson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna
Date: 22 Dec 1995 15:11:38 GMT
Organization: Kantronics, Inc.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4behra$[e-mail]>
References: <4ba1jn$[e-mail]> <4bd2m0$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port17.idtslw1.idir.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2 (Windows; U; 16bit)

I have to agree with Merv - probably the *best* all-round aerial I have
played with was a 160 meter full-wave loop.  It's easy and cheap to put
up, and about the only guidelines to installation are fairly intuitive -
get it as high as practical (given the constraints of your particular
location), and as "open" as possible - a circle being "most open".  I
have had this aerial up several times at various locations and it always
is a fun one to use.  Large loops do not have the wild excursions in
impedence that non-loops exhibit, and can be easily matched.  I fed mine
with 450 ohm window line, and also have used 300 ohm TV line.  I always
fed it in the corner closest to the shack (practical) and ran the
feedline to a 4:1 balun (happened to have one).  The coax from the balun
plugged into the back of the FT-1000 and the internal tuner took care of
the rest.

Again, not much is SUPER critical here - hang the wires in a triangle,
square, trapazoid, and probably at least 20 ft in the air, or whatever
your QTH will allow.  Higher will lower the radiation angles, but MOST of
my rag-chewing is local anyway (up to 500 miles or so).  Real low noise
:-) and no fuss operation make this aerial a winner!





From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:26 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!news.mit.edu!cph
From: [e-mail] (Chris Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna
Date: 22 Dec 1995 20:02:52 GMT
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Lines: 24
Sender: cph
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ba1jn$[e-mail]>
        <4bd2m0$[e-mail]>
        <4behra$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip-cph.lcs.mit.edu
In-reply-to: Msg of 22 Dec 1995 15:11:38 GMT from Ken Johnson <[e-mail]>
X-Newsreader: Edwin [version 3.90, MIT Scheme Release 7.4.2]

   From: Ken Johnson <[e-mail]>
   Date: 22 Dec 1995 15:11:38 GMT

   probably the *best* all-round aerial I have
   played with was a 160 meter full-wave loop.

I'll second this, although mine is an 80-meter loop (ladder-line
feed).  I've got it up about 25-30 ft.  It's not the best transmitting
antenna, but for receiving it's wonderful.  I work traffic nets, and
I'm usually able to copy everyone on the net, even when they can't
copy one another (I have a good receiver, which doesn't hurt).  This
is especially true this time of year when 80 is so poor for traffic
nets.

For transmitting, I'd have to choose the antenna at our club station,
W1MX.  This is a 160-meter inverted-vee, with the apex at 250 ft, fed
with open wire.  When we fire that up on 80, it seems to get out very
well.  However, it's a really noisy site, and the antenna picks up BC
AM stations much too well -- enough to overload the front end of any
receiver we've plugged in to it, even with BC-band filter and 20db
attenuator -- so on receive that antenna is pretty poor.  At another
site, it might be fine.

Chris K8SH


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:27 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!rohrwerk
From: [e-mail] (John Seboldt)
Subject: Re: The Best Wire Antenna
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4b194o$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 05:09:42 GMT
Lines: 16
Sender: [e-mail]


In the mid 70's I lived in a college tower dorm -- 8 floors hugging the
edge of a bluff, with about 4 floors above the upper edge and 4 below.  I
was on the 7th floor, and had about 100 feet of wire out my window down
to a tree below -- a top-fed sloper, I guess.  My trusty SB-102 put out a
big signal on 75 meters and other bands.

I even used it to shut up a noisy neighbor's stereo -- making some CW
test transmissions on 10 meters.  They heard the thumps, scratched their
heads, and eventually turned it off!

: John Seboldt  [e-mail]  / CW:  It don't mean a thing
:      K0JD... Minneapolis, MN      /  if it ain't got that swing!
:   My R2/T2 station described in  / Di dah, di dah, di dah, di dah...
> http://www.lehigh.edu/lists/qrp-l/k0jd/index.html <



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:28 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!lily.redrose.net!john
From: Curt Sanders <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: TV antenna & tuning
Date: 27 Dec 1995 04:23:52 GMT
Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4bqhoo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: l32.redrose.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Macintosh; I; 68K)
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna#4bmkv2$[e-mail]

Any experience using a TV antenna for 6m. SSB with a proper tuner?

********************************************************
* "There is nothing constant but change." ï Heraclitus *
*                        ---                           *
*     [e-mail] (Amateur Radio)    *
* Reunion Users Group (genealogy) * Hershey Apple Core *
********************************************************




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:29 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!noc.netcom.net!udev.ci.salinas.ca.us!usenet
From: Norm Pritchett <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TVI situation. Suggestions?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 07:41:46 -0800
Organization: Valley Christian Academy of Salinas, CA
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4bc5fo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: koala.ci.salinas.ca.us
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

I want to echo W8JI Tom's comment that we need a little bit more
information about what you are seeing.  But tell us this, do you have any
kind of filtering on the AC power cord to your television set and all the
appliances (VCR's, cable TV boxes, etc...) that are connected to it?  RF
energy from your antenna or transmission line can enter appliances
through the AC power lines.

----
Norm Pritchett, AC6DF
Salinas, CA


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:30 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail](Dan Walker )
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: TVI situation. Suggestions? FIXED!
Date: 24 Dec 1995 19:16:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4bk8uo$[e-mail]>
References: <4bc5fo$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-sd11-13.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 24 11:16:40 AM PST 1995


Thanks to everyone who helped me sort out this problem. I learned
alot about tracking down and fixing TVI.

I forgot to mention that the TV's are all on cable. Several people
told me that TVI on cable is a different issue than non cable. I
read in the Interference book that cable preamps can cause problems.
Then I remembered that I put one of those in the wall near the service
entrance (oops!).

When I disconnected the pre-amp in the line, all interference
vanished! I forgot about this preamp becaused I installed it months ago
during the summer when I wasn't using my rig at all and cable reception
was bad due to construction in our area.

Again, thanks alot guys! :-)

73 de Dan KE6LBX



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:31 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!lamarck.sura.net!news.uky.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Terry Fugate)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?
Date: 22 Dec 1995 13:55:28 GMT
Organization: IT
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <4bedcg$[e-mail]>
References: <4ba7f7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.163.13.56
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.6

In article <4ba7f7$[e-mail]>, [e-mail](Dan Walker
 ) says:
>
>
>I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the
>shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to
>the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI.
>
>What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack
>which is 75ohms (i think)
>
>Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit?
>
>73 de KE6LBX
The other respondant is right, just use an adaptor(s) connect the rf
into you tv.  I used a litle panasonic 4"bw that used an 1/8" earphone
style connector for the antenna in.  The Radio Shack diskcone works ok
for tv, but you will get bad multipath(ghosts) from the omni-directional
pattern.
BTW A friend hooked his vcr out into his diskcone one night, and we
walked around with my BW tv(takes about 8 D cells) and I was surprized
how uniform the transmit pattern was.  max range of about 400'.

Please don't bother to flame. It was a one shot experiment, years ago.
Post your results.
Good luck


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:32 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!news.av.qnet.com!ibbs!kb6ibb
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Stillinger)
Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Organization: Coffee Radio Difference Committee
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4ba7f7$[e-mail]> <4bag38$[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 04:42:47 GMT
Lines: 36

Jim Fellows ([e-mail]) wrote:
: [e-mail](Dan Walker ) wrote:
: >
: >I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the
: >shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to
: >the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI.
: >
: >What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack
: >which is 75ohms (i think)
: >
: >Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit?
: >
: >73 de KE6LBX

: Impedence matching in a discone can be done by varying the angle of the skir
t.
: For 50 ohms the angle is 60 degrees, I will need to look up what it should b
e
: for 75 ohms assuming you're using coax.

: But if you have a pre-made discone, then the mismatch will only result in a
: nominal 1.5:1 VSWR (the SWR for 75 - 50 ohm mismatch).

: This should not make a much difference for a TV receiving antenna.


Like a 1.5:1 VSWR is bad. :-)  Like having a perfect match for receivers is
going to make much of a difference.  Like .5 db is going to make any diff.

:-)

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB                           [e-mail]
PSC Box 3429                                       [e-mail]
Edwards AFB, CA  93524                             [phone]N1
      Flight Test Center, crashing aircraft so you don't have too.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:33 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.ramlink.net!news
From: [e-mail]    (Joe Subich)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Use disconne antenna for television. Impedence matching?
Date: 24 Dec 1995 04:59:19 GMT
Organization: RAMLink Internet Access Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4bimn7$[e-mail]>
References: <4ba7f7$[e-mail]> <4bag38$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]  (Joe Subich)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hun26.ramlink.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

> [e-mail](Dan Walker ) wrote:
>
> I use a Radio Shack disconne antenna for general monitoring in the
> shack (2m, 440, scanner, etc). I want to hook a small BW TV up to
> the antenna, mainly to monitor TVI.
>
> What's the best way connect my 50ohm feedline to the TV's cable jack
> which is 75ohms (i think)
>
> Can someone suggest a simple matching circuit?
>

Don't worry about the impedence matching - neither the antenna
impedence or the imput impedence of the TV receivers are that
critical.  With or without impedence matching I don't expect the
discone will work very well for TV monitoring.

The vast majority of TV stations ar HORIZONTALLY polarized.
FCC rules specify power/ERP in the horizontal plane and although a
relatively few stations have gone to circular or eliptical polarization
the vast majority have not.

The discone is vertically polarized.  The polarization mismatch is
approximately 20 dB in practice on direct signals (signals that have
not been reflected/refracted from the environment - either the
ionosphere or buildings/terrain).

Being an omni-antenna, the discone is susceptible to multi-path
due to reflections (and particularly sensitive since the majority of
the reflected signals will have a higher vertical component than
the direct wave) ... the multi-path signals show up as "ghosts"  in
the video portion of the TV signal and as distortion in the audio.

73,

    ... Joe Subich, AD8I
       Chief Engineer, WOWK-TV  Charleston/Huntington, WV
       ([e-mail])


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:34 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: [e-mail] (David Dean)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Using Same Ant for Scanner & 2mtrs
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:00:10 GMT
Organization: Keep-In-Touch Communications
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4bjt9p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-den7-25.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Dec 24  7:57:45 AM PST 1995
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I am wanting to use one dualband antenna for both my scanner and
dualband radio.  Is there a device on the market that will allow this
to work?  If not on the market, has anyone ever designed something
that would do this.  This will be for a mobile installation.

Thanks in Advance.

73's Dave N6RHL
                       David Dean
                         N6RHL

               Keep-In-Touch Communications

                     Internet Addresses

[e-mail] (primary)      [e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:35 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!news.mindlink.net!news
From: [e-mail] (jim pestell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:16:59 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4bi6gb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: line067.nwm.mindlink.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations
sending pictures of the earth from space?
So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there?
Thanks.



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:36 1995
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.texas.net!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!amd!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!charles1
From: [e-mail] (charles copeland)
Subject: Re: weather maps
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4bi6gb$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 05:19:58 GMT
Lines: 18
Sender: [e-mail]

In article <4bi6gb$[e-mail]>,
jim pestell <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations
>sending pictures of the earth from space?
>So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there?
>Thanks.
>

Sounds like you have got the right frequency. Its the Navy
broadcasting those charts. AT 0000Z they broadcast a typed
schedule. Mainly its charts, but several times a day they
send high resolution satellite pictures that will blow your
mind. Some are 1/4 earth, others are entire earth.

Last I can remember, pics broadcast 15 minutes past every hour,
but its been a while.




From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:37 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!enews.sgi.com!news.corp.sgi.com!inn
From: Jim Fellows <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: What the heck is C-Load ?
Date: 26 Dec 1995 19:00:00 GMT
Organization: is highly overrated, I prefer chaos.
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4bpgng$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zoinks.corp.sgi.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1IS (X11; I; IRIX 5.3 IP22)
X-URL: news:rec.radio.amateur.antenna

Howdy!

Ok, so I'm down at the old H.R.O. looking at the Comet and Diamond VHF/UHF bas
e
antennas wondering about just what is inside.  In addition to all the Kanji? o
n
the packages there is some description as to what the antenna(s) are.  Like 2m
5/8 wave C-Load; 70cm dual 5/8 wave C-Load.

In addition to wondering just what's inside, I'm thinking about the references
to C-Load.  I get myself home and look in the Antenna Handbook; look in an old
regular Handbook; look in 3-4 antenna design textbooks from classes in school.
Nothing at all about this.

Wondering if this refers to a capacitively loaded antenna?

Any answers?

Just feeling like dummy load.


Jim

--
It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear.
The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!!                   KF6AGJ
Green Acres *IS* the place to be!                            [e-mail]



From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:39 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!reeve.research.aa.wl.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!duke.usask.ca!buydens
From: [e-mail] (Brian Buydens)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: What the heck is C-Load ?
Date: 27 Dec 1995 04:43:10 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <4bqisu$[e-mail]>
References: <4bpgng$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: duke.usask.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Here is a wild guess.  Perhaps C-Load refers to center load.  I think that
is when they put all the "stuff" to electrically lengthen the antenna in the
center of the whip.


Brian.

Jim Fellows ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Howdy!

: Ok, so I'm down at the old H.R.O. looking at the Comet and Diamond VHF/UHF b
ase
: antennas wondering about just what is inside.  In addition to all the Kanji?
 on
: the packages there is some description as to what the antenna(s) are.  Like
2m
: 5/8 wave C-Load; 70cm dual 5/8 wave C-Load.

: In addition to wondering just what's inside, I'm thinking about the referenc
es
: to C-Load.  I get myself home and look in the Antenna Handbook; look in an o
ld
: regular Handbook; look in 3-4 antenna design textbooks from classes in schoo
l.
: Nothing at all about this.

: Wondering if this refers to a capacitively loaded antenna?

: Any answers?

: Just feeling like dummy load.


: Jim

: --
: It's a dog-eat-dog world and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear.
: The hills are alive, and they're coming to get YOU!!!                 KF6AGJ
: Green Acres *IS* the place to be!                            [e-mail].c
om


--
Brian Buydens                        There was a young poet named Dan,
Department of Computing Services     Whose poetry never would scan.
University of Saskatchewan           When told this was so,
email: [e-mail]        He said, "Yes, I know.
VE5RDV


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.uoregon.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (LL pick)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 25 Dec 1995 21:11:31 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 5
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bnlkj$[e-mail]>
References: <4aq20c$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (LL pick)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

run 4 or 6 or 8 elevated radials tuned to 1/4 wave. eg 246 divided by
freq. mghz. times vl.of wire or coax .eg: 246 ddivided by freq. times .98
( velocity factor for wire) Also elevate and insulate ur antenna from the
ground.Feed the antenna w/ center cond. and the radials w/ shield. or vice
versa.  good luck. N9RCN


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:40 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!hermes.is.co.za!news.pix.za!usenet
From: Danie Brynard <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Why free space pathloss ?
Date: 26 Dec 1995 16:15:06 GMT
Organization: PiX - Proxima information X-change
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4bp72a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: net-0.pta.pix.za
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)

Please excuse me fellow radio hams, but can I ask a very stupid
question ?

Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies
? Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by
6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody
just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ?

PS I know about 1/R^2 loss, Pl=32.45+20log(km)+20log(MHz), etc etc





From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:42 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk
From: "Anthony R. Gold" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Why free space pathloss ?
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 17:04:34 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4bp72a$[e-mail]> <4bp63f$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29
X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk

In article <4bp63f$[e-mail]>
           [e-mail] "Luigi Greco" writes:

> It should not be frequency dependent, at least in the far-field regime.

On the contrary, the formula asked about is only true in the far field.

Regards,
--
   Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM                  email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:43 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!alpha.sky.net!winternet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.westnet.com!westnet.com!lgreco
From: [e-mail] (Luigi Greco)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Why free space pathloss ?
Date: 26 Dec 1995 15:58:39 GMT
Organization: WestNet Internet Services
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <4bp63f$[e-mail]>
References: <4bp72a$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: westnet.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]


Danie,

It should not be frequency dependent, at least in the far-field regime.
When I think of free-space, I think of that vacuum between galaxies.

However, all bets are off when talking about terrestrial "free-space" where
you have to worry about atmosphere, ionosphere, water, ground, buildings,
cute blondes, etc.  Then there's is frequency dependent path loss.

Luigi N2CWV


Danie Brynard ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Please excuse me fellow radio hams, but can I ask a very stupid
: question ?

: Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies
: ? Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by
: 6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody
: just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ?

: PS I know about 1/R^2 loss, Pl=32.45+20log(km)+20log(MHz), etc etc





From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:44 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!peer-news.britain.eu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk
From: "Anthony R. Gold" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Why free space pathloss ?
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 95 16:29:38 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4bp72a$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29
X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk

In article <4bp72a$[e-mail]>
           [e-mail] "Danie Brynard" writes:

> Why is the free space path loss different for different frequencies
> ? Thus every time you double the frequency the pathloss increase by
> 6dB. I know what the mathematical formulae say but can somebody
> just give a plain gutfeel common sense answer for this dummy ?
>
> PS I know about 1/R^2 loss, Pl=32.45+20log(km)+20log(MHz), etc etc

Be assured that free space is *not* frequency sensitive.  And if the
receiving antenna was a total sphere surrounding the source, even at an
infinite distance there would be zero loss, because all the energy would
be captured.

The formula you mentioned is stated as the loss between two isotropic
antennas, which is a theoretical value.  But it is intended to be used in
real world situations where real antennas with real gain are used and the
loss will be adjusted downwards (the gain adjusted upwards) by the sum of
the gains of the two antennas over isotropic values.

"Real-world" theoretical receiving isotropes are considered to be smaller
at higher frequencies in oder that they can maintain a constant -2.15 dB
gain versus the dipole at all frequencies, and so they must capture a
smaller fraction of the total source signal as frequency increases.  The
"capture area" of any real antenna of fixed gain varies as the square if
the wavelength and as the inverse of the square of the frequency.  And for
the formula to be useful, the isotrope must be considered to vary
similarly. This implies the inverse of loss as the square of the frequency.

Of course a different model with a frequency unvarying loss formula and
instead having the gain of a dipole versus an isotrope not considered
fixed but instead reducing inversely with the square of the frequency
might have been a better choice of model. But I guess you and I weren't
around when that decision was made :-)

Regards,
--
   Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM                  email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:45 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help - 160m beverage (3 msgs)"
Date: 23 Dec 95 07:59:23 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "-" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:46 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help for quad"
Date: 24 Dec 95 15:18:32 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "for" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:47 1995
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!library.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on diffraction loss calculation"
Date: 25 Dec 95 15:25:18 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "on" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Wed Dec 27 18:20:48 1995
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!braintree!news.concourse.com!ragnarok.oar.net!malgudi.oar.net!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!agate!library.ucla.edu!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: Listserv@ucsd (Mailing List Processor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: your LISTSERV request "help on freespace path loss"
Date: 27 Dec 95 04:49:22 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

The mailing list "on" could not be found.
You may use the INDEX command to get a listing
of available mailing lists.


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:50 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM
From: [e-mail].([e-mail] ([e-mail] (jim)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59
Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Path: news.telalink.net!news.sprintlink.net!arther.castle.net!news.netrail.net
!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!news.mindlink.net!news
From: [e-mail] (jim pestell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:16:59 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4bi6gb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: line067.nwm.mindlink.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations
sending pictures of the earth from space?
So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there?
Thanks.



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:51 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM
From: [e-mail].([e-mail] ([e-mail] (jim)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59
Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Path: news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM
From: [e-mail].([e-mail] ([e-mail] (j
im)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59
Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines:
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Path: news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM
From: [e-mail].([e-mail] ([e-mail] (j
im)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: 24 Dec 95 18:16:59
Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines:
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Path: news.telalink.net!news.sprintlink.net!arther.castle.net!news.netrail.net
!uunet!in1.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!news.mindlink.net!news
From: [e-mail] (jim pestell)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: weather maps
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 00:16:59 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4bi6gb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: line067.nwm.mindlink.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations
sending pictures of the earth from space?
So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there?
Thanks.



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:51 1996
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (LL pick)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Mob.ant (screw driver)
Date: 25 Dec 1995 20:53:59 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 3
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bnkjn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (LL pick)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

call larry n8mis or mike kf8my. they both are xperts and build a great one
. i run one myself w/102" whip. they r both good in the call books.73
N9RCN


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:53 1996
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 95 22:55:58 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 38
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4boks8$[e-mail]>
References: <4bdtv4$[e-mail]> <4bh3in$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>I suspect that is true to some extent because I build single ended
link coupled tuners using a series cap to the load and a shunt cap
across the coil. Neither is a  differential cap.
>
>The ciruit works well on almost all loads.

Could you describe your design in more detail?  Since the last time we
talked, I've built two more low-capacitance ferrite transformers in an
attempt to eliminate the complexity of a link.  The coupling was much
better than the first one that I told you about, but the frequency
response of both was terrible.

I think a ferrite transformer with the characteristics I'm looking for
can probably be built, but I think it could take a lot of tinkering.
At this point, I'd rather get a working system a little sooner, so
I've decided to build an air-link tuner instead.  I'll just have to
install a lot of taps on the secondary to save time experimenting.
This brings up a question:

If I use a coil that is capable of covering 160 - 10 meters, there
will be a large number of turns shorted out when it's used on the
higher bands.  I've found references to the undesirability of doing
this, but no specific guidelines.  Is there any way I can determine
beforehand what the limit is regarding the maximum number of turns
that can be shorted out along the coil?  I assume the problem is that
the shorted turns reduce the Q, thereby increasing losses.  (?)

Incidentally, there's another practical problem with the "balun first"
concept that I hadn't thought of before.  Namely, a local SW or BCB
station can induce significant common-mode voltages on a long run of
transmission line.  The balun doesn't do a thing to discourage these
signals from entering the receiver, neither will the balanced Pi or T.
Only a magnetic (low-capacitance) link will solve this problem.

73 & Happy New Year!
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:53 1996
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!winternet.com!tclbbs.com!steve.schack
From: [e-mail] (Steve Schack)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: antenna question
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 04:32:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The City Lights BBS
Distribution: world
Lines: 21

Hope this is the right echo for this question, if not direct me to a
more appropriate one.

At a cabin in Grand Marais MN I have one of those combo CD, tape and
AM-FM radios with a single element extension antenna.

The only FM station I can get with any degree of relaibility is from
Ironwood Michigan 90 miles SSE across Lake Superior. Thunder Bay (60
miles) uh-uh, nothing. Duluth, nope. I fastened an 8"x4" piece of 1/2"
hardware cloth to the antenna to "help". Not much difference.  AM sounds
like a car radio back in the 50's fade in, fade out.

Is there any way I can put up a bow-tie type FM antenna, on coax, maybe
with an amplifier and some how hook up to some internal connection? Like
unsolder the connection for the extension antenna and hook up an
external antenna?  Any problems or limitations with this idea? I'm
looking for ideas, I'd like something other than a single station.
Thanks for any help.


 * SLMR 2.1a *


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:54 1996
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!tcsi.tcs.com!agate!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (richard smith)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #628
Date: 26 Dec 95 05:17:40 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 2
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951226001723.14151a-100000@scfn>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

unsubscribe



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:55 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.azstarnet.com!usr4ip20.azstarnet.com!n7ws
From: [e-mail] (Wes Stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:09:07 LOCAL
Organization: Arizona Daily Star - AZSTARNET
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4bp6h2$[e-mail]> <4bqds1$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: usr4ip20.azstarnet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev B final beta #4]

In article <4bqds1$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) writ
es:
>From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
>Subject: Re: Gap Titan vs Cushcraft R7???
>Date: 26 Dec 1995 22:17:21 -0500

>In article <4bp6h2$[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>(Dutch) writes:

>>Choose the one without traps but keep in mind that Gap has
>>made many compromises too in cramming the Titan full of coaxial stubs.

>I wonder why traps are given such a bum rap??

Oh come on Tom!  You _know_ coax-fed, trap-resonated antennas are terribly
"lossy", while non-resonant ladder line and tuner fed antennas are "efficient.
"

Why, this is "conventional wisdom."  How could it possibly be wrong? <grin>

> Did they say they were worse
>than stubs, and what's the logic WR used???

>73,
>Tom

Happy New Year,

Wes -- N7WS


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:56 1996
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 08:27:10 GMT
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4boks8$[e-mail]> <4boumj$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>My circuit isn't so complicated. I was thinking of publishing it and
>not providing details so I could sell kits <grin>.

I'm not touchin' this one.  My feet are fryin' as it is.  :o)

>Seriously, just link couple to the coil with a tapped link, and
>parallel tune the coil with one cap and series tune the load with
>another. It tunes real smooth, and no need to move a tap around for
>different load impedances.

Let me make sure I understand what you mean.  Let's say the coil
facing the transmitter is L1 and the output coil is L2.  Are you
saying that only L1 is tapped, and that there's a parallel capacitor
across L2 and another capacitor in series with one side of the line?
If so, doesn't the single series cap unbalance the feedline currents?
Also, have you built a version of this with sufficient range to cover
160 - 10 meters, without having to tap down on L2?

>>The balun doesn't do a thing to discourage these signals from
>>entering the receiver, neither will the balanced Pi or T.
>>Only a magnetic (low-capacitance) link will solve this problem.

>A choke balun does.

If the choke balun presents a choking impedance of, say, 200 ohms and
the common-mode impedance of the system at BCB frequencies is 2,000
ohms, the choke isn't going to do much.  Even if the inductance of the
choke is very high, its input-to-output capacitance may conduct the
common-mode voltage back to the rig.  Only if the common-mode
impedance of the system is low will the choke likely be of help.
Of course, that also implies the voltage is low, in which case the
choke probably isn't needed for this purpose anyway.

Yes?  No?

73,
Jack WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:57 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.i1.net!news1.inlink.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Radio Shack discone antenna -- help
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 14:25:17 GMT
Organization: Inlink
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <4brl2q$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip216.inlink.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Jason Piush <[e-mail]> wrote:


>Hi all....

>One of my gifts this year was a RS discone antenna.  I have heard that
>the reception under 100 mhz leaves a little to be desired because the
>antenna lacks an element on the top.

>My question is as follows....does anyone have knowledge of how I could
>mount an element on the top of the antenna to improve reception below 100
>mhz?

>Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

>Thanks.
>_____________________________________________________________________________
_
>                            |
>Jason Piush                 |
>Winnipeg, Canada            |       RESERVED FOR FURTHER DEVELOPEMENT
>[e-mail] |
>____________________________|________________________________________________
_

Hi Jason

I have two RS Discone antenna's, one I have experimented with somewhat
and found that if you take each of the top horizontal wires, measure
in 2 inches and bend the tips upward 30 degrees it improves lower
range reception, but it plays havoc if you use it for transmission on
440.

I have tried vertical wires of various lengths vertical from the top
and noticed no increase in low-band reception received signal level
except in the 50 MHz range, this increase was evident on all length
verticals tested and not related to any resonant length vertical.  I
started with a 4 foot piece of music wire and shortenened it in 1/2
inch increments all the way down to about 16 inches in length.

Bending the tips up 30 degrees made the most impact on reception of
the antenna.

Gary - KG0ZP




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:58 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!jeefers.microdes.com!usenet
From: Dave Hand <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Bandpass/notch cavity construction techniques/ideas
Date: 27 Dec 1995 14:27:54 GMT
Organization: Micro Design International, Inc.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4brl5a$[e-mail]>
References: <4bkbf9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dhand.microdes.com

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I've been making 70cm band bandpass/notch cavities out of 2 inch
> copper pipe with some success. I'd like to make larger diameter
> cavities not only for 70cm but also for 2m. I've thought about
> galvanized sheet metal but am aware of the poor conductivity of the
> material. Anyone had any luck with other construction practices? What
> about soldering plated PCB board into square cavities?
>
>
> Ron Curry
> KE6WED
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]
>

I had good luck a couple years ago with gallon paint cans and
the large coffee cans, their not too bad, I mesured the loss at about
1 db.

Dave Hand
WB4HYP
[e-mail]



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:02:59 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!news
From: [e-mail] (David Choi)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Attic TV Antenna
Date: 27 Dec 1995 20:54:10 GMT
Organization: Motorola Inc
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <4bsbpi$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagittids.comm.mot.com

Hi,

I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic.
Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic?
If it has signal weakening, how much that would be?
Did anyone have any experiences with this?

I have no interference around the attic at that level.
I live about 40 miles away from Chicago metropolitan.

-David




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:00 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox
From: "George L. Hiscox" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (Q) Broadband directional ant published in HAM RADIO
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <4bs878$[e-mail]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 22:45:47 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Lines: 43

[e-mail] (Dave and Rox) wrote:
>       I'm looking for information on an antenna written up in one of
>the last issues of Ham Radio Magazine.  I recall the article was written
>by a German author, and the antenna had a German sounding name (therefore,
>I don't remember).
>
>       The antenna was a heart shaped directional with a 10 to 1 band-
>width.  It could be constructed from foil and mounted on plexiglass.  The
>heart shape was split in two (right and left), and the feed was on the
>bottom where the two pieces come to a point.  Radiation was opposite
>the feed.
>
>       What I dont remember are the formulas, etc. that were included
>in the article.
>
>       If anybody is familiar with this design, or has old issues of
>Ham Radio Magazine and can look this up I would appriciate whatever
>assistance.  I would also be willing to pay for copying cost if the
>article is located.
>
>Dave - N7MJW.

Dave,

The article on the Gottingen Heart Antenna by Walter J. Schultz,
K3OQF, 15225 Wayside Road, Philadelphia, PA 19116, appreared in
the May 1990 issue of Ham Radio Magazine on page 11.

If you can't find a copy of that in your library or from another
local source then feel free to drop me an email.  I will be happy
to copy it for you when I get back to the office "next year."

73 and Happy New Year!

George


--
| George L. Hiscox                 | Very funny Scotty... Now |
| [e-mail]               | beam down my clothes !!! |
| WA6RIK @ WB6YMH.#socal.ca.usa.na | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:01 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!gidora.kralizec.net.au!root
From: [e-mail] (Peter Somlo)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Sailboat antennas
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:53:11 GMT
Organization: zeta.org.au
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4bsiu3$[e-mail]>
References: <4bqflo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup37.syd1.zeta.org.au
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent v0.55

Richard Dowling <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Does anyone have experience with HF antennas on sailboats?  I'm wondering
>particularly about what length of backstay works the best, 1/4, 5/8 wave
>or what?  Thanks Richard

...About antennas on boats: I have often wondered why hasn't anyone
paid attention to the MOUNTING HEIGHT of boat antennas. The aim is (at
least for 27 MHz operation) to have the radiation main-lobe in the
horizontal direction and the mounting height (with the mirror image of
the antenna in the water) would influence the radiation pattern a
great deal, - yet antennas are just mounted wherever is convenient.

Cheers, Peter
-------------


Dr Peter I Somlo FIEEE | M1: "Every coin has 3 sides - at least"
Microwave Consultant   | M2: "The wind ain't gonna blow from where it
tel/fax: [phone] |      ought'a, it'l blow from where it can"
                    http://www.zeta.org.au/~somlo




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:02 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!news.dpc.net!novia!uunet!in2.uu.net!intac!usenet
From: Mark Herson <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna
Date: 28 Dec 1995 00:17:29 GMT
Organization: INTAC Access Corporation - An Internet Service Provider
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4bsnmp$[e-mail]>
References: <4bsbpi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hudson.intac.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.22 (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

David,

[e-mail] (David Choi) wrote:

>I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic.
>Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic?
>If it has signal weakening, how much that would be?
>Did anyone have any experiences with this?

I've had indoor attic TV antennas in two houses now. And, yes, they do
work. But, in my most recent house (a townhouse condo on top of a 650 ft.
hill), there was a lot of multipath.

I guess the answer to your question is that yes, you can do it, but if
you can get the antenna out in the clear, away from everyone else's roof,
you'll be better off.

--
73, Mark, N2MH

http://www.intac.com/~mherson/




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:03 1996
From: [e-mail] (Stephen M Trapp)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 01:23:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Radio Shack discone antenna -- help
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.seri.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.netins.net!newsrelay.netins.net!news.eng.convex.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!paladin.american.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!news.corp.hp.com!hpcc01!trapps
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 16

I bought a RS discone a few years ago that was stainless steel with
a 1/4 x 20 threaded hole in the top (I think).  I was going to add
a bottom loaded 6M whip antenna to it to improve the reception below
100 MHz.  I thought a loaded antenna would have less impedance disruption
to the discone because of the coil at the bottom (but hi-Z in a parallel
path, who cares if its resonant at a harmonic, you'd get gain somewhere).

I haven't done it yet.  Matter of fact, on a cheap SW rcvr, the discone
(and leaky RS coax, I presume) make a pretty good attenuating SW antenna.

I haven't compared the antenna threads.  I thought someone sold discones
with a whip on top as well.

73,
Steve, N4DG



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:04 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Scanner119)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: 2 Channel Maxtrac to 16 Channel Maxtrac Conversion?????
Date: 28 Dec 1995 02:42:01 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 17
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4btho9$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Scanner119)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

I saw a posting on here the other day on converting a 2 channel Motorola
Maxtrac(VHF High Band) to a 16 channel.  I have access to both the
software and hardware I need some technical advice on how to do it.  I
have
4 mobiles and 1 base station I use for my construction company and would
like to convert them to 16 channel radios.  I priced out new radios from a
local guy and he wants $425 a pop for 16 channel ones(used, no less) and I
spoke to a friend who says the hardware is only about $25 for each radio
so I
figured this was the way to go.  I really could use some help from you
guys.
I'm really not a radio-guy, I'm a scanner-guy myself.  Any help would be
greatly appreciated.  Thanx in advance.

Scott
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:05 1996
From: [e-mail] (Rick Ruhl)
Subject: RE: Apartment antenna opinion
Date: 28 Dec 95 03:48:12 -0800
References: <4br64l$[e-mail]>
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!newshost.marcam.com!news.netins.net!news.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.msn.com!msn.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com)
Lines: 7

Jim:

Why not contact one of the Ham Radio mags and have it printed there?
Not only can you make more money that way, but you'll start to get
the reputation as a low profile ham radio expert :).

Ricker


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:06 1996
Path: news.epix.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ulowell.uml.edu!vtc.tacom.army.mil!news2.acs.oakland.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Rob Roschewsk)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Looking for reference sources
Date: 28 Dec 1995 03:48:41 GMT
Organization: Very unorganized
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <4bt42p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: roschews.dialup.access.net
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.2

I am looking for some practical reference material on antennas.....

Some questions I have:
- how to calculate resistive and reactive componenets of an antenna feed point
.
- how to calculate the proper values for a gamma match without guessing the co
rrect capacitor
value.
- how to calculate the proper values for a top loaded vertical.... and then ho
w to match it to
the feedline/xciver
- etc etc etc hope you get the drift....

I have taken some basic AC and DC in college as electives, I have my extra cla
ss licence....
SQRT(-1) doesn't scare me!

I have The Antenna Engineering Handbook.... but thats over my head, Not enough
 detail in the
ARRL Handbook.... I was thinking of getting the ARRL antenna book, and maybe t
he compendium
series.... what do you think!!!!

Respond by email if possible.....

--> Rob
        (KA2PBT)



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:07 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.tamu.edu!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: what to expect with increase in # of radials
Date: 28 Dec 1995 07:21:01 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <4btggt$[e-mail]>
References: <4aq20c$[e-mail]> <4bnlkj$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.194.44.219
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <4bnlkj$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (LL pick) writes:
>run 4 or 6 or 8 elevated radials tuned to 1/4 wave. eg 246 divided by
>freq. mghz. times vl.of wire or coax .eg: 246 ddivided by freq. times .98
>( velocity factor for wire) Also elevate and insulate ur antenna from the
>ground.Feed the antenna w/ center cond. and the radials w/ shield. or vice
>versa.  good luck. N9RCN

Better solution.  Ground everything, including the support pole, irght into th
e
ground.  Bond the radials to the pole to ground them.  Feed the vertical with
a conventional gamma match section.  Works simply beautiful.  Bring the coax
down to ground level to feed to the building, complete with grounding the
shield there too.  Has the neat added attraction that at least you have some
ground protection for Dr. Zeus.  However, when you really look at all this,
by the time you have added the real protection you needed for Dr. Zeus in the
form of radials at ground level to dissapate his visit, you might as well just

do the thing at ground level for 160, 80 and 40, at least, anyway...

Mike W5WQN as a guest at leviathan.tame.edu


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:08 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM
From: [e-mail].(wb3u)@SANDH.COM ([e-mail] (wb3u))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna
Date: 28 Dec 95 12:45:50
Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Path: news.telalink.net!SANDH.COM
From: [e-mail].(wb3u)@SANDH.COM ([e-mail]
e.com (wb3u))
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna
Date: 28 Dec 95 12:45:50
Organization: Telalink Corporation, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines:
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ng.sandh.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Path: news.telalink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 18:45:50 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4c03bv$[e-mail]>
References: <4bsbpi$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (David Choi) wrote:

>I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic.
>Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic?

I have two attic TV antennas and they both perform poorly.  One looks
through the roof at a tower only 6 miles away.  There is snow and
multipath on two of the three UHF channels broadcast on that tower.
The second antenna must look through the aluminum siding on one side
of the house in order to be aimed at the transmitter.  I goofed and
didn't have an accurate fix on the transmitter untill I put that
antenna up.  Needless to say, that channel is un-watchable.

CATV wasn't available here when I put the antennas up two years ago,
but it is now.  Next spring I will either mount the antennas outside
or subscribe.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:09 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!upei.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (David  C. Seeler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once again
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:13:50 GMT
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <30e295a2.471180@137.149.3.1>
References: <4avoqq$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141

[e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE) wrote:


>Here's my opinion: It's what I wrote to QST at the time this
>article was published. The reason currents are unequal with a low
>number of radials and become equal with a higher number of
>radials is very simple.  Doty's RF generator was not isolated
>from ground. This could have been a direct connection to ground
>or one through the power lines and the utility ground; perhaps
>both. We do not know the length of the coax used to drive his
>experiment and therefore have no estimate of the distance his
>RF generator was located away from the antenna.
>
>

Much deleted.....



Interesting,  I remember similar discussions just 3 - 4 years ago in
one of these groups .  Now, the most recent issue of the ARRL antenna
handbook still carries a synopsis of this paper / work with no mention
of the concerns regarding the experimental design of this particular
study or the fact that ARRL's external review found the work to have
difficulties ( from what I understand).

I wonder how much other material in the handbooks need external
review? After all this is 1995 - and concerns re this particlar issue
were raised more than 3 years ago..........


I would agree with Ian - the editors should be more critical and if
necessary submit the paper for peer/external review. Otherwise we
(not just in Amateur radio - but in all fields where we try to advance
the state of the art) can generate lots of DATA but is it meaningful
information?


Season's Greatings!  May 1996 be a good year for all.


Regards,
David Seeler, VY2DCS
Charlottetown, PEI


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:10 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.crd.ge.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (John A. Sutliff)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Any experience with longwire (random-endfeed) on 2m band?
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:30:52 GMT
Organization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4bu63p$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: backscatter.crd.ge.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I just put up ~320 ft longwire antenna and am using MFJ antenna tuner
which is meant for 10m to 160m bands.  I am not sure if SWR meter on
that unit is accurate in VHF range.  If I get a 2m SWR meter i can get
an accurate reading, but can anyone tell me what to expect?  Does
anyone use this kind of longwire for transmitting on 2m?

Thanks and 73,
KB2WFW
John Sutliff



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:11 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!pacifier!mac1.pacifier.com!user
From: [e-mail] (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:43:31 -0800
Organization: Are you kidding???
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4b9jgi$[e-mail]> <4bc3e4$[e-mail]> <4bc5vo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mac1.pacifier.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0

In article <4bc5vo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail](Dan
Walker ) wrote:

> The trick is to give it a good coat of paint, I spray paint mine
> black, which gives the added bonus of making it less visible.

But the color black ABSORBS the radiation, etc. I would think that
painting it white would be better.

Gary
---
[e-mail]   <-----====()====----->   http://www.pacifier.com/~gsnow/
Vancouver, WA's  On-Ramp  to  the  Information  SuperHighway   [phone]
telnet to "pods.pacifier.com" (press return 2x) or dial the above to register


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:12 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!mr.net!news.mr.net!medtronic.com!usenet
From: [e-mail] (David Lipson)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ARTIFICIAL GROUND
Date: 28 Dec 1995 13:48:07 GMT
Organization: Medtronic Corporation
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4bu76n$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lpc-176.leads.brady.medtronic.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.90.5

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (cl
eve e massey) says:
>
>OK...since the ground is essentially half the antenna system, thought this
>the best place to post a question...
>
>Can't figure out a way to get any kind of real earth ground conneced to
>the HF rig...are the artificial grounds any good...
>
>Looked at the MFJ and then read that the new Ten-Tec kit folks have a kit
>version...that would probably be more fun as I would get to build
>something...
>
>Any and all comments would be appreciated...
>
>pse e-mail direct...
>
>txn...cleve wd5bor

quater wave counterpoise is cheaper, and you can tune using Autek RF analysist
, or with grid dip
meter.


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:13 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Murch UT-2000A, "ultimate transmatch" questions
Date: 28 Dec 1995 13:55:24 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 54
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4bup6s$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Hi Jack,
In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>Let me make sure I understand what you mean.  Let's say the coil
>facing the transmitter is L1 and the output coil is L2.  Are you
>saying that only L1 is tapped,

Yep

> and that there's a parallel capacitor
>across L2 and another capacitor in series with one side of the line?

Yep

>If so, doesn't the single series cap unbalance the feedline currents?

Not if the whole secondary floats and stray C is kept low. It probably
would be a bit better to use balanced components to keep the stays more
even, but it isn't a big deal below 20 meters, especially if the rotor and
frame of the series cap are tied to the stator side of the parallel cap.

>Also, have you built a version of this with sufficient range to cover
>160 - 10 meters, without having to tap down on L2?

Oh no, L2 is tapped for several bands.

>If the choke balun presents a choking impedance of, say, 200 ohms and
>the common-mode impedance of the system at BCB frequencies is 2,000
>ohms, the choke isn't going to do much.

Oh, I see you're talking about MW signals. I thiough you ment SW stuff at
first. Why are MW signals a concern? Are you close to a station?

>Even if the inductance of the
>choke is very high, its input-to-output capacitance may conduct the
>common-mode voltage back to the rig.

It can't if the inductance is high, it's either inductive or capacitive at
one frequency..not both.

> Only if the common-mode
>impedance of the system is low will the choke likely be of help.

That's true.

>Of course, that also implies the voltage is low, in which case the
>choke probably isn't needed for this purpose anyway.

The voltage could be very low and a choke might be needed. What if the
current was very high? The choke balun and the floating tuner both work
best at the same line position, and where at depends on the whole picture.

73 Tom


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:14 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cc.iu.net!news
From: [e-mail]   (Bill Newkirk)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Attic TV Antenna
Date: 28 Dec 1995 14:52:00 GMT
Organization: Space Coast Amateur Technical Group
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4buaug$[e-mail]>
References: <4bsbpi$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Bill Newkirk)
NNTP-Posting-Host: netport-25.iu.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2

In <4bsbpi$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Choi) writes
:
>I am thinking of putting a TV antenna in the attic.
>Will the reception suffer inside the enclosed attic?

depends on how your house was built.  if you have a lot of metal in the roof,
from things like siding and the roofing materials/insulation, you might not ga
in
much. if you've got the parts already, it's worth a try.

outside in the clear with good quality feedline would be the preferred way to
go
(and since it's winter, it's perfect antenna construction weather  8) )

Bill Newkirk WB9IVR                  The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group
Melbourne, FL                       duty now for the future of amateur radio
Lombardi's 1st Law of Business:
Companies succeed in spite of their best effort.  If they succeed at all.



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:15 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!newsfeed.acns.nwu.edu!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news
From: Paul Moller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: downspouts near vertical antenna & minimizing their impact??
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Organization: MOTOROLA
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:54:52 -0600
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <4bufb3$[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (SCHBBS News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.188.36.8
Lines: 26

Bob Tomas wrote:
>
> Because of space restrictions, I had to locate my butternut vertical
> antenna on the ground about 15 feet from the corner of my house.
> There is a metal down spout at this corner.  I removed the downspout while
> painting and found that the swr changed on the 20 meter band.  The swr
> on the other bands did not change.
>
> My questions are:
>
> (1) Is this observed change in swr on 20 meters indicating that the downspou
t
>     is interacting with the antenna in a detrimental way on this band?
> (2) If this is bad, is it necessary to replace the downspout with the
>     plastic variety or can I just retune the metal one by shortening
>     or lengthening it?
>
> bob

Chances are the downspout is too close on all bands. Likely you noticed
the change on 20m because of a near resonance on that band. Also likely
it is not helping the pattern, perhaps on any band. Consider the
difficulity in getting parasitic elements to behave the way you want
them, and then consider the likelihood that the downspout is the right
lenght at the right spacing, on all bands! Unwanted parasitic elements
are a part of life in urban and suburban hf antenna installations.
[e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:16 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ncar!ra.cgd.ucar.edu!tomas
From: [e-mail] (Bob Tomas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: downspouts near vertical antenna & minimizing their impact??
Date: 28 Dec 1995 16:06:59 GMT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <4bufb3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.cgd.ucar.edu

Because of space restrictions, I had to locate my butternut vertical
antenna on the ground about 15 feet from the corner of my house.
There is a metal down spout at this corner.  I removed the downspout while
painting and found that the swr changed on the 20 meter band.  The swr
on the other bands did not change.

My questions are:

(1) Is this observed change in swr on 20 meters indicating that the downspout
    is interacting with the antenna in a detrimental way on this band?
(2) If this is bad, is it necessary to replace the downspout with the
    plastic variety or can I just retune the metal one by shortening
    or lengthening it?


bob


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:16 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!news.unb.ca!upei.ca!usenet
From: [e-mail] (David  C. Seeler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna,rec.radio.amateur.space
Subject: Fabrication of a Ground Plane and the Egg Beater
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 18:53:29 GMT
Organization: University of Prince Edward Island, Charlottetown, PEI Canada
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <30e2e6df.591005@137.149.3.1>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip60.slip.upei.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141
Xref: news.epix.net rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18090 rec.radio.amateur.space:6039

Hi - I was wondering if anyone has fabricated a groundplane for the
440 MHz eggbeater?  I would be interested in knowing more about the
specifics in order to improve upon the operations at my QTH.

ThanKs in advance and Season's greetings!

Internet: [e-mail]



Regards,
David Seeler, VY2DCS
Charlottetown, PEI


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:18 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!degreene
From: [e-mail] (David Greene)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: parabolic dish antennas
Date: 28 Dec 95 19:00:32 GMT
Organization: Heurikon Corporation
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: copernicus.heurikon.com
Summary: principles of parabolic dish antennas
Keywords: parabolic dish antennas
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #16 (NOV)

Hello,

I just had a lunchtime discussion concerning how a parabolic dish
works, and what the main priciples are behind them.  All three of us
had different ideas on how the things work, and I was wondering
if someone here would mind setting us straight on this.

Here's how I view how they work:

The parabolic part of the antenna is used to reflect on concentrate
RF energy to a focal point in front of the antenna.  At the focal point
there is a small antenna element, resonant to the desired frequence,
which is connected to the antenna feed point.  There may also be a
low-noise preamp at the feedpoint.  Connected to the feedpoint is a
suitable transmission line, which leads to the receiver.

The argument centered on whether or not the parabolic dish size made
any difference to what frequencies the overall antenna was resonant to.
My argument was that changing the size of the parabolic part of the
antenna only changed the amount of energy that was collected (ie. making
it more sensitive), and that the only truly resonant part of the antenna
was the element sitting at the focal point.  Thus all you need to do
to a given dish antenna to make it work on different bands is to change
the size of the element at the focal point, and leave the dish size
alone.

I gave an example of the fact that some parabolic dishes are huge, such
as those used for radio astronomy, and that some are quite small, such
as the new DSS dishes, even though they may happen to be receiving the
on the same frequencies.  The only reasson the radio astronomy dish is
so big is that it needs to be far more sensitive.

Am I on track here?  The one thing that bugs me is what happens to the
effectiveness of the dish if you try to use it to receive signals sent
at a wavelength that is approaching the physical size of the dish?

Please email me at [e-mail]

Thanks,
Dave Greene
aa9bi




--

Dave Greene          Heurikon Corp.       [phone]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:19 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!oronet!news
From: [e-mail] (Jim Weir)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Sailboat antennas
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 19:19:51 GMT
Organization: RST Engineering
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <4buqkc$[e-mail]>
References: <4bqflo$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rst-engr.oro.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Richard Dowling <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Does anyone have experience with HF antennas on sailboats?  I'm wondering
>particularly about what length of backstay works the best, 1/4, 5/8 wave
>or what?  Thanks Richard

I can't speak for all sailboats, all HF gear, or all types of water,
but using the aluminum mast as an antenna on a Cat-22 with the stays
insulated from the mast by means of teflon grommets, in fresh water,
with a Kenwood TS-130 and an antenna tuner with the keel cable as the
ground plane works fairly well in fresh water.  I've never had the
opportunity to use salt water, so I can't comment.  If I were a REAL
rabid hfer I'd probably rig up some sort of stainless flex-jumper from
the keel cable to the metal swing-keel itself to get a little more
ground.

As yet, I've not struck an arc when transmitting and touching the
radio.

Jim



Jim Weir VP Engineering  | "We seem to be standing on
RST Engineering          |  the foreskin of technology."
Grass Valley CA 95945    | (Gen. Chuck Yeager)
voice/fax [phone]   |
[e-mail]  AR Adv WB6BHI  CFI A&G/Comml Inst A&G/A&P/C-182A N73CQ



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:20 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!pagesat.net!a3bsrv.nai.net!mgate.arrl.org!news
From: Zack Lau <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Gain on helicals vs. yagis
Date: 28 Dec 1995 20:49:26 GMT
Organization: American Radio Relay League
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <4buvsm$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: zlau.arrl.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] N2VNO wrote (James D. Cronin) wrote:
>
>While writing a Windows program to give helical antenna values (gain,
>spacing, etc.) I compared gain with NBS yagis shown in the ARRL antenna
>book.  For a 4.2 wavelength 432.1 MHz yagi the gain is 14.2 dbd on a
>115 inch boom.  A 1.33 wavelength circumference helical with 20
>turns and .21 wavelength spacing gives about 18.5 dbd gain on
>a 115 inch boom.
>
>I checked the numbers with a MS-DOS program called 'HELIX' and they came
>out within 1/2 db or so.
>
>Are these numbers correct?  Is there some kind of catch here?  Why bother
>with yagis at UHF when a helical antenna gives better gain?

There is a study of these antennas by Darrel Emerson using NEC 2
that indicates the Kraus' gain figures to be optimistic, particularly
as you increased the Helix length. The Antenna Compendium 4 article
also references a couple of other studies in the professional
literature.

Zack Lau KH6CP/1



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:21 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!primus.ansouth.net!news.cais.net!zippy.cais.net!news
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Best Instrument for Matching Line to Load
Date: 28 Dec 1995 22:38:16 GMT
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service [e-mail] 703-448-4470
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4bv68o$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp121.erols.com
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

>   [e-mail] (WB3U) writes:
>     [e-mail] (Ronald Ries) wrote:
>
>  >I would like to start a thread about instrumentation used to match
>  >the antenna to the transmitter. I have long enjoyed the trying of
>  >different antennas on the various bands and have tried a variety of
>  >instrumentation to achieve a match.
>
>  Do you mean impedance matching networks, or impedance measurement
>  equipment?
>
>  >How about it? What methods/tools do you swear by in this aspect
>  >of the hobby?
>
>  There are no methods that I swear by, but many that I swear at.  :)
>
>  73,
>  Jack  WB3U
>
>>>>
Take a look at "Reflections" a book by Walt Maxwell and published by ARRL.  A
 lot of
good information re antennas, measurements and test equipment.

73/Jim/AC4CZ


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:22 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!kiwi.crown.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Lincoln Thormahlen)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: NEED CHEAP, EFFECTIVE SW BAND ANTENNA
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 03:10:34 GMT
Organization: Crown Net Inc.
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4bvm42$[e-mail]>
References: <1995Dec22.121923@aspen>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crown34.crown.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] wrote:

>I have an old Hallicrafters S-120 receiver that's a bit banged up, but still
>works rather well.  However, I would like to improve my reception by leaps an
d
>bounds, especially at 5.065 MHz (WWCR out of Nashville).

>I live in Platteville, Wisconsin, approximately 25 miles northeast of Dubuque
,
>Iowa.  (sorry--don't have my lat and long handy)

>By using ingenuity and cheeeeeeeeeeeeap materials (you tell me what), what is

Radio Shack's $9.99 SW antenna kit(RS#278-758) has everything you need
but a connector!  I have two, one for each of my listening locations
and they work great for my RS DX-380.  My new Drake R8A doesn't like
the noise so I homemade a 80 foot long dipole for about $60 and it
gets 5065k and 3315k from WWCR very well on the Drake in NW Indiana.
If the RS kit doesn't work well enough, E-mail and I'll send the
dipole info.

Enjoy!

Lincoln Thormahlen
[e-mail]



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:23 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!panix!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Clay Irving)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: weather maps
Date: 29 Dec 1995 08:29:43 -0500
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <4c0qg7$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail].([e-mail] (Jim
[e-mail] (jim) writes:

>Can any one tell me the frequencys of some good weather stations
>sending pictures of the earth from space?
>So far all I am getting is charts, also any fax stations out there?
>Thanks.

Check the "Frequency Lists/Satellite Frequencies" section of the
Scanning Reference:

        http://www.panix.com/clay/scanning/freq-lists.html#satellite

--
 See the happy moron,
 He doesn't give a damn,           Clay Irving, N2VKG ([e-mail])
 I wish I were a moron,            http://www.panix.com/clay
 My God! perhaps I am!


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:23 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:13:02 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 26
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4c247v$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4c05h3$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (WB3U) wrote:

>If the currents in the line are balanced, I wouldn't think that it
>would be necessary to ground the shield(s).  Connection to the tower
>might be beneficial though, simply because it would prevent the
>(electrical) distance between the shield and tower from changing.
>
>Also, if the coax was inserted at a low impedance point, you could
>install ferrite beads at each end of each section.  That should
>further reduce the possibility of mistuning caused by the interaction
>between the shield and tower.

I need to clarify the above, just to be sure there's no confusion.
First, as Tom Medin stated, the two shield conductors should be
shorted together.  However, they should be shorted together at each
end, after the beads are installed.  Otherwise, the beads won't
provide common-mode choking.

Also, the ends of the shields should not be connected back to a common
ground.  Otherwise, common-mode current will have a path around the
beads, through the common ground.

My thanks to Tom Bruhns for pointing this out.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:25 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!news
From: Paul Moller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: PVC for Antennas
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Organization: MOTOROLA
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 13:17:40 -0600
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win95; I)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
References: <4b9jgi$[e-mail]> <4bc3e4$[e-mail]> <4bc5vo$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (SCHBBS News Account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: 144.188.36.8
Lines: 15

Gary Snow wrote:
>
> In article <4bc5vo$[e-mail]>, [e-mail](Dan
> Walker ) wrote:
>
> > The trick is to give it a good coat of paint, I spray paint mine
> > black, which gives the added bonus of making it less visible.
>
>

Black is usually achieved by adding carbon, which is lossy. Other colors
should be more friendly. PVC in itself is not bad, and certainly not as
lossy at hf as the rumor of years gone by has indicated.

[e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:26 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:20:58 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 36
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4c24n0$[e-mail]>
References: <4bkc8u$r88$[e-mail]> <4c1b11$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Paul Milawski) wrote:
>Steve Beyers ([e-mail]) wrote:

>: I've got a 41-foot vertical I use on 40,
>: 30, and 20 meters.  It's a homebrew welded
>: steel tower, mounted on the ground, with
>: 48 buried radials, each about 50 ft. long.
>: I feed it with 300 ohm window line, about
>: 90 ft. long, with no matching at the base.
>: The rig has the standard 50 ohm output.

         <snip>

>A quarter-wave 'groundplane' style antenna averages around 70ohms, so
>feeding it directly with 300ohm line is not the best method.

         <snip>

>What you need to do is match the load impeadance to the line
>and match the balanced line to the unbalanced load.  In the 1991 ARRL
>Antenna book (16th edition), chapter 26 describes Voltage/Current
>baluns that can be built to do exactly this, and in your case, you
>would mount it at the base of the antenna in some sort of sealed
>enclosure.

That may introduce more problems than it solves.  The antenna isn't a
quarter-wave vertical on any of the bands mentioned.  The feedpoint
impedance won't be 70 ohms.

Someone with a modeling program needs to verify that the impedance at
the feedpoint won't be excessively high on some of the bands.
Otherwise, the balun may absorb more power than is presently being
lost due to feedline radiation, and the feedline may radiate anyway.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:26 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: ladder line
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 13:26:41 GMT
Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET
Lines: 13
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4c251p$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Steve Ellington) wrote:

>No. I hated that stuff because it kept twisting and shorting itself
>out plus the plastic insulators kept popping loose. Use the webbed
>stuff or make some home brew open line.

I have some webbed stuff that will be for sale next spring.  I'm tired
of waiting for the ice to melt so my SWR will stabilize.  If the run
is fairly long (more than 50' or so) and you live in a climate prone
to ice and snow, buy or build real open wire line.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:28 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!hone!informer1.cis.McMaster.CA!church.dcss!hwfn!james!aa490
From: [e-mail] (Paul Milawski)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 29 Dec 1995 18:11:45 GMT
Organization: Hamilton-Wentworth FreeNet, Ontario, Canada.
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <4c1b11$[e-mail]>
References: <4bkc8u$r88$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: james.freenet.hamilton.on.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2-HWFN]

Steve Beyers ([e-mail]) wrote:
: I've got a 41-foot vertical I use on 40,
: 30, and 20 meters.  It's a homebrew welded
: steel tower, mounted on the ground, with
: 48 buried radials, each about 50 ft. long.
: I feed it with 300 ohm window line, about
: 90 ft. long, with no matching at the base.
: The rig has the standard 50 ohm output.

: In the shack, to match the rig to the line,
: I use a simple homebrew link coupler with
: a variable coupling (swinging?) link.  Iuse
: twin thermocouple ammeters to measure line
: currents.  I balance the currents by moving
: the tap positions on the output coil.
: According to the Transmission Line program,
: losses are low even though the SWR is high,
: because of the low loss of the 300 ohm line.

  What's happening here is the feedline has become part of the
antenna system, and is radiating part of your signal. This is
being caused by the unbalanced termination (antenna). Tuning up
in the shack only matches the load (transmission line & antenna)
to the transmitter.

: It works great, but I wonder if I'm missing
: something.  I've never seen balanced line
: feeding a vertical in any of the books.
: Any comments?
: Steve Beyers W9HJW

  Line radiation will distort the overall radiation pattern of your
system, but it all depends on how much. Obviously the goal here is
to get as much power to the antenna feedpoint as possible. Also not
considered here is the antenna impeadance. A quarter-wave 'groundplane'
style antenna averages around 70ohms, so feeding it directly with
300ohm line is not the best method.

  What you need to do is match the load impeadance to the line
and match the balanced line to the unbalanced load.
In the 1991 ARRL Antenna book (16th edition), chapter 26 describes
Voltage/Current baluns that can be built to do exactly this, and
in your case, you would mount it at the base of the antenna in
some sort of sealed enclosure.

  Best Regards and Happy Holidays..

  Paul, VE3CSY
 Hamilton, Ontario.


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:29 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: best "penetrating oil"???
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 18:23:59 GMT
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (Louise Carkenord) wrote:

>I know there are some true "penetrants" out there.....something
>way beyond WD-40.  What have you people had good success with??
>Please be very specific.

Back when I was involved in auto racing, I probably tried everything
on the market at one time or another.  In all honosty, I never found
anything that I thought actually did a better job than WD-40.  Most
of it *said* it did, but you couldn't prove it by my results.

The real trick to disassembling stuck metal parts is to use a
combination of oil and heat.  After letting the WD-40 soak in for a
day or so, a propane or acetylene torch can be used to heat the parts.
The expansion and contraction of the metal nearly always breaks the
two pieces apart with very little effort.  Naturally, you have to use
the type of torch and the amount of heat that's appropriate for the
job.  Tempered steel parts should be heated as little as possible, and
an acetylene torch should not be used on aluminum unless the item is
large and conducts the heat away very rapidly.

Best of luck in your project.

73,
Jack  WB3U


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:30 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!holonet!colossus.holonet.net!cencore!forrest.gehrke
From: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once ag
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 95 18:49:00 -0300
Distribution: world
Organization: Central Core BBS, 201-575-8991
Reply-To: [e-mail] (FORREST GEHRKE)
References: <30e295a2.471180@137.149.3.1>
X-Newsreader: PCBoard Version 15.22
X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20
Lines: 36

DS> I wonder how much other material in the handbooks need external
DS> review? After all this is 1995 - and concerns re this particlar
DS> issue were raised more than 3 years ago..........

DS> I would agree with Ian - the editors should be more critical and if
DS> necessary submit the paper for peer/external review. Otherwise we
DS> (not just in Amateur radio - but in all fields where we try to
DS> advance the state of the art) can generate lots of DATA but is it
DS> meaningful information?

You're asking too much of editors.  They couldn't possibly have
the technical savvy to encompass all of the subjects that come
across their desks.  Coupled with this is the constant demand
for good editorial material and time constraints in publishing a
magazine.

Too often, however, for a variety of reasons they fail to
respond to objections to what has been published.

Peer/external review is one method, but it has its pitfalls, too,
as far as the editors are concerned, as it introduces another
delay for publishing what appears to be an interesting article.

This poses another problem: for example I am on Communications
Quarterly editorial review board.  But I do not see every article
that magazine publishes in the areas I have indicated to them
to be my interest.  When they publish something that has technical
error in those areas, it might now appear I had passed on it?

All I can do then is to write pointing out the error, which I
have on occasion, and hope my objection gets published.  Even
when that happens, it is long after the fact.  The original article
becomes part of the lore of that subject and a few months or years
later I see it footnoted in another article.

 * RM 1.3 02583 * It only rang twice...then the dog answered..


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:31 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!msunews!news
From: Philippe Perreault <perreaul>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: dipole in the attic? will it work?
Date: 29 Dec 1995 19:05:46 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University, College of Engineering
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <4c1e6a$[e-mail]>
References: <4bbo28$[e-mail]> <4bkch6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: oak.egr.msu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.12 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4c)
To: [e-mail]
X-URL: news:4bkch6$[e-mail]

What do youy mean by resonant dipole???   Is this ant singla banded ?

Thanks,

Happy New Year


Phil, W8EKR



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:31 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.uiowa.edu!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (John Stroppel)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: parabolic dish antennas
Date: 29 Dec 1995 19:22:57 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4c1f6h$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: franklin.uhl.uiowa.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0]

Dave:


   From what I remember from school....could be wrong.....
The dish diameter (rule of thumb) should be at least 10 wavelength
across for the lowest freq. to be used.  This effects the width
of the beam from the dish and the gain.  Seems like the dish mesh
need not be solid but the larges hole could only be 1/10 wavelenght
and the parabolic symmetry needed to be held to the 1/10 wavelenght
to avoid loss of gain.
I'm no antenna eng. for what it's worth.
John WA0VYZ

--
 John Stroppel                         | Internet: [e-mail]
 The University of Iowa - Hygienic Lab | Amateur Radio: WA0VYZ
 Oakdale Research Campus, OH-M7A       | Voice:    [phone]
 Iowa City, IA   52242                 | Fax:      [phone]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:32 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!hp-pcd!hpcvsnz.cv.hp.com!tomb
From: [e-mail] (Tom Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FM antennae
Date: 29 Dec 1995 20:28:02 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Corvallis Site
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <4c1j0i$[e-mail]>
References: <4c124h$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsnb.lsid.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4]

Bill Newkirk ([e-mail]) wrote:

: don't have any here, but 6 is to 59 as 213 is to 58. catv guys here use it t
o get to

I'd say it's more like "RG-11/U is to RG-59/U as RG-213/U is to
RG-58/U."  RG-6 is slightly larger than RG-59, but smaller than RG-11,
and uses double shielding (braid and foil).  The usual incarnation of
RG-6-type cable has foam dielectric.  RG-6 is indeed nominally 75 ohms
and is very commonly used for video and TV RF distribution.  Our local
cable company runs RG-6-type all the way to wall outlets in homes.

: the house, where it mates to a lightning supressor and other stuff and then
they
: bring the signal into the house on 59.

: Bill Newkirk WB9IVR                  The Space Coast Amateur Technical Group
: Melbourne, FL                       duty now for the future of amateur radio
: Lombardi's 1st Law of Business:
: Companies succeed in spite of their best effort.  If they succeed at all.


--
Cheers,
Tom
[e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:33 1996
From: [e-mail] (Doug Reed)
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!ub!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Need Help with spacing of
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 20:38:24 -0100
X-FTN-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 23

WI>From: [e-mail] (David Willmore)
WI>I'm building (should say that I have built most of) a J-pole antenna for 2m
.
WI>I've got the 3/4-l and the 1/4-l sections soldered and ready, but I couldn'
t
WI>decide how long the joining piece should be.  I know that it forms a
WI>transmission line between the lower 1/4-l piece of the 3/4-l section and
WI>that the spacing would be dependant on the pipe diameter.  I guess that
WI>tuning the feed position can tune out that parameter, but is that correct?

Hi David.
The figure I use is 1/10th of the 1/4 wave length as the maximum
spacing. For a 2 meter J-pole, the 1/4 wave length is about 19 inches,
so I'd use no more than 2 inch spacing, preferably closer to 1.5 inches,
although as close as 1/2 inch would probably work.  My troubles have
always been if the spacing is way too large or very close.  For a 444
MHz J-pole, look for a "street elbow" for this section because it is
hard to get close enough on this band.
73's,
Doug Reed, N0NAS           email: [e-mail]
St Paul, MN

 * SLMR 2.1a * My reality check just bounced.




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:34 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bctel.net!news.island.net!ham!rs
From: [e-mail] (Robert Smits)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: FM antennae
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 21:02:00 PST
References: <4bikop$[e-mail]> <4bmicn$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4c124h$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: world
Organization: The Curmudgeon's Cottage
X-Newsreader: Rnf 0.79b6
Lines: 32

[e-mail]   (Bill Newkirk) writes:

>In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Snow)
 writes:
>>In article <4bmicn$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bill Newkirk) wrote:
>>> don't scrimp on the feedline...no sense in putting up a good antenna array
>>> and then losing it all in the feedline.  consider something like RG-6.
>>RG-6?? Hmmm, I haven't heard of that one. What are its characteristics?
>>Gary
>
>don't have any here, but 6 is to 59 as 213 is to 58. catv guys here use it to
 get to
>the house, where it mates to a lightning supressor and other stuff and then t
hey
>bring the signal into the house on 59.
>(then again, maybe i'm just remember the numbers wrong..there is a "large"
>75 ohm coax tho.)

Without meaning to quibble, Bill, RG-6 is only slightly heavier and larger
than RG-59. (OD of .266 in instead of .242in). It's usually got a foam
dielectric as well, and is usually used in satellite receiver systems
because it has less loss than RG-59.

I suspect you were thinking of RG-11, another 75 ohm coax that has an OD
of .405 inches, exactly the same OD as RG-8 or RG-213. If you do use RG-6,
make sure you get the correct F connectors, as the ones for RG-6 have a
larger hole for the centre conductor and a slightly larger crimping ring
as well. Any Radio Shack usually has both types.

--
[e-mail]

``What is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but
 that they are intolerant.  The evil is not what they say about their
 cause, but what they say about their opponents.'' -- Robert F. Kennedy


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:35 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou2!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 21:26:30 GMT
Lines: 15

I've used RG-62 coax for a balanced feed all the way to the antenna.
Ground the shield on only one end though. Loss  may surprise you because
the webb type line doesn't qualify as real open wire line. That
dielectric does have some loss especially at higher frequencies i.e. 20MC
and above. RG-62 is a small guage, 92 ohm cable. Using two of them should
yield 200 ohms. Since this setup is not the same as using a single coax,
the possibility of the dielectric breaking down from the center conductor
to the shild is rather vague to me. I would tend to think that such a
thing would be less likely to happen because the shild is not being used
as the "other conductor".  Seems to me that RG62 is about 20ga copper
coated steel.  I used it in a balanced configuration to feed my
horizontal loop, putting the balun at the tuner and grounding the shields
at the tuner. Worked great.
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:36 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!iglou!iglou2!n4lq
From: [e-mail] (Steve Ellington)
Subject: Re: ladder line
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: iglou2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services (1-800-436-4456)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
References: <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 21:28:22 GMT
Lines: 14

No. I hated that stuff because it kept twisting and shorting itself out
plus the plastic insulators kept popping loose. Use the webbed stuff or
make some home brew open line.


paul Veltman ([e-mail]) wrote:
: Anyone out there know of a source for old style ladder line, or is it all
: this stuff that looks like oversized TV twinlead?

: TIA

: Paul WA6OKQ
--
Steve Ellington [e-mail]  Louisville, Ky


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:37 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!ghiscox
From: "George L. Hiscox" <[e-mail]>
Subject: References re Stacked Rhombics
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:03:05 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Lines: 24

During the past few evenings I have been computer modeling some
rhombics using EZNEC.  It occurred to me that there might be
something to be gained by stacking them as one might stack yagis.
I have checked the usual antenna references and have been unable
to locate any writings on stacked rhombics.

I am interested in methods of feeding such an array and don't
want to waste time trying to reinvent the wheel if there is a
tried and true method already in the can.

If anyone out there knows of any references on the subject or has
any personal experience with feeding stacked rhombics I would
appreciate an email or a followup to this post.

Thanks and Happy New Year!

George

--
| George L. Hiscox       | When I die I want to go quietly in   |
| [e-mail]     | my sleep like my grandfather,  not   |
| WA6RIK @ WB6YMH        | screaming like the people in his car.|




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:38 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!usc!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!news.forth.gr!news-ath.forthnet.gr!news.compulink.gr!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Zacharias Liangas)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: beam ant, project:Yr advice pls
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 22:43:15 GMT
Organization: ME!!!!!
Lines: 62
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: world
Expires: 10 days
Message-ID: <4c23kq$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.compulink.gr



Dear friends


I have a big doubt so I post this masage here

   First lemme tell you my system configuration fr the moment before I
   advise you my problem :
   I use a SONY ICF 7600D , a Lowe HF150 and a Philips Magnavox 2395
   all are digital
   - wire antennas - of 6m sloped 60 deg paralel to az 120 deg - and a
   hor wire 13 m [aralel to 15 deg az .Both are  TV antenna mast
guides
   -home brewn ATU operating 2- 7 mHz for 20 - 5 dB respectively
   Palce of Reception ; Thessaloniki 40N 23E

   Due to my interest in SEA  I have the particular interest for
   listening to the folowing radio stations and under the condidtions
   as below :

   - STM / V o Malaysia ( dir 120 dg az) in 15295 at mean levels of 2-
   3 with QRMers as
   R Liberty  fgrom 15290  at levels S4-5 ( abt 15-25 dB more)
   R F I  from 15300 at nearly same as R L
   from varius hand made account-ments I understood that a great
   amount of signal abt 50-60% is lost due to possible reflexions
   coming from the city's mountains at an angle of 270-025 deg az

-RRI Jakarta in 9680  at mean levels (not always receivable) of S1-2
   Only V of Turkey is QRMer at 9675 but not always QRMing due to very
   low mod

- R Singapore  in 6000 at mean levels  of S2to 3 with
   Deutschlandfunk in 6005 (S4) as the only QRMer or sometimes
   Radio Dubai at 6000  but at verylow level

   I asked  the experts  of my city for making a common antenna
constru
   ction for  these 3 freqs of a antenna individual per band , I also
   read  many boks abt antennas found solutions  but most of them  are
un-
   suitable  for  my  place ( they were quad - X beam  for example) as
I
   have minimal  room in  the 7  level building and possibly can use
only
   small constructions  of  no more than 4 x 4 sqm

   PLease help me , and suggest a good protype fr beam antenna(s)
under
   the above conditions
   Thank you in advance

   [e-mail]
PLEASE ADIVSE ME YOUR OPINIONS BY EMAIL ONLY !

======
test for 8-bit
µß≈ß±Θß≥ δΘ▄πΩß≥
Zakaria Liang!
(namanya untuk kawan sahaja!)



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:40 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!news.cerf.net!ni1.ni.net!xband.ni.net!user
From: [e-mail] (J. L. Blanton)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Eggbeater vs. Turnstile Antenna
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 23:22:16 -0800
Organization: Network Intensive
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xband.ni.net

What╣s the deal with this │eggbeater▓ antenna anyway?

I would expect that a pair of crossed 1-wavelength loops fed in phase
quadrature would have roughly the same performance and pattern as a pair
of crossed dipoles fed in phase quadrature (i.e., the venerable
│turnstile▓ antenna).  Furthermore, I would expect that crossed dipoles
might behave better above a reflecting ground plane because there is a
well-defined spacing between the radiating elements and the ground plane.
In the case of crossed loops, part of the loop is closer to the ground
plane than the opposite part which may make the radiation pattern less
predictable.

Does the │eggbeater▓ have any real advantages over the turnstile (other
than slightly smaller dimensions)?  Or is it simply a ploy by antenna
manufacturers to market something appearing to be new and novel?

Regards,

Lee, WA8YBT/6


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:40 1996
From: [e-mail] (Glenn Schultz)
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!rosevax!hamlink!fredmail
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Twin-lead To trap vert.?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 00:02:28 -0100
X-FTN-To: All
Lines: 6

Hi All, Has anyone ever tried feeding a trap vertical with twin lead?
or any other vertical for that matter?
73 de Glenn
[e-mail] [44.94.248.210]




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:41 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!nuclear.microserve.net!news.paonline.com!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Penetrating oil
Date: 30 Dec 1995 00:32:23 GMT
Organization: Pennsylvania Online [Usenet News Server for Hire]
Lines: 3
Message-ID: <4c21an$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.25.244.99
X-Newsreader: SPRY News 3.03 (SPRY, Inc.)

There is a penetrating oil in the mail market called "Kroil". It's the best I'
ve ever used on tractors and such. Don't know about
antennas. Next time you put an aluminum antenna together, get some "NOALOX" or
 similar oxidation inhibiting compound from your
local electrical supply store. That's what works for me.  Good luck.


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:42 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Ham-Ant Digest V95 #618
Date: 30 Dec 95 01:03:54 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]




HA>Date: 20 Dec 1995 18:20:35 GMT
HA>From: [e-mail] (Bob Boardman)
HA>Subject: Good 2m Mag-mount Antennas?

HA>    I'm looking for a good 2 meter mag-mount antenna so I can use my
HA>  Kensood TH22-AT in my vehicle.  The MFJ-1278B 5/8 wave mag-mount
HA>  for $24.95 is certainly attractive in terms of price.  I'd appreciate
HA>  any comments from anyone who has used one of these, or suggestions
HA>  for any other 2m mag-mount antennas I should consider.

HA>  -Bob

Bob, I've been using Larsen Antennas for years and in my opinion you
can't beat 'em.  My Larsen mag-mount has a lot of miles on it including
several round trips to FL.  It's never blown off the vehicle, and you
can screw in any type of antenna you want for any band.  I've replaced
the cable assembly once in maybe 15 years.  de Rick Markey, KN3C




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:43 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!EU.net!Belgium.EU.net!ping.be!news
From: Geert Pirens <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Kansas City Tracker or eqeuvalent for homebrew ?
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 01:40:15 -0800
Organization: PING Belgium
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup09.hasselt.eunet.be
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

Hello All,

Can anybody help me on:

I am looking for a schematic of a Kansas City Tracker, or compatible.

If aneyone have some kind of schematic or PCB layout ?

Or if you have better stuff than this? plaese send me more information.

I like to send commands via my computer to the antenna rotors.

The program I use is INSTANT TRACK v1.0b.

Who is so kind to help me with this ? I wil pay if needed!

PLAESE contact me!! by sending e-mail, or fido mail.

Greetings

Geert Pirens

E-Mail     [e-mail]
  or       [e-mail]
Fidonet    Geert Pirens / 2:292/115.9


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:44 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Steve Beyers <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 30 Dec 1995 03:38:39 GMT
Organization: CompuServe, Inc. (1-800-689-0736)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4c2c7v$ko9$[e-mail]>
References: <4bn34u$[e-mail]>

Tom -

     I tried a balun with a single biflar winding on
an iron powder toroid core at the antenna feedpoint.
It helped, so added another one in series.  That gave
me almost perfect balance on 20 meters and 30 meters.
However, on the lower bands the unbalance reappeared,
and on 160 it was almost 2 to 1.  This leads me to
believe i'm on the right track.  Am I going to run
into some other problem if I keep making the balun
bigger to work on the lower frequencies?  Will they
start to heat up and dissipate energy?  If this works,
I'm getting close to what I want - an all-band vertical,
with conjugate matching, all done in the shack, with
no matching at the antenna.  What do you think?  Thanks.

                               Steve

--
Steve Beyers W9HJW


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:45 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!news3.digex.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Off-center fed dipole?
Date: 30 Dec 1995 03:49:44 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, USA
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4c2cso$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: dcc12506.slip.digex.net
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5

I'm looking for a decent wire antenna I can use for 80 and 40m in my 130x40 ci
ty lot.
The ARRL antenna handbook mentions this antenna, and adds that the G5RV was re
ally
for alternate (as opposed to consecutive) bands.  Also, it didn't say much goo
d about the
Windom.

I have only the tuner built into my HF rig (FT-890), and don't really have the
 space for a radial system.

Any help is appreciated!

Eric  WD3Q
--
Eric Rosenberg     WD3Q, J20BY, VK2GYA, etc.
Washington, DC
[e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:46 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news1.cris.com!news
From: [e-mail] (Marco G Chiriboga)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.venezuela,soc.culture.uruguay,soc.culture.spain,soc.culture.peru,soc.culture.mexican.american,soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.ecuador,soc.culture.cuba,soc.culture.colombia,soc.culture.chile,soc.culture.bolivia,soc.culture.argentina,rec.radio.amateur.policy,rec.radio.amateur.misc,rec.radio.amateur.homebrew,rec.radio.amateur.equipment,rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc,rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Un francΘs estß buscando contacto
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 04:19:19 GMT
Organization: Concentric Internet Services
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <4c27r4$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <estrella-2012951410390001@128.125.62.135>
NNTP-Posting-Host: crc1-fddi.cris.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: news.epix.net soc.culture.venezuela:43510 soc.culture.uruguay:4760 soc.culture.spain:84530 soc.culture.peru:11249 soc.culture.mexican.american:7951 soc.culture.latin-america:40105 soc.culture.ecuador:4326 soc.culture.cuba:32535 soc.culture.colombia:12755 soc.culture.chile:32776 soc.culture.bolivia:10959 soc.culture.argentina:29593 rec.radio.amateur.policy:32358 rec.radio.amateur.misc:96237 rec.radio.amateur.homebrew:12444 rec.radio.amateur.equipment:23210 rec.radio.amateur.digital.misc:13393 rec.radio.amateur.antenna:18110

[e-mail] wrote:

>In article <[e-mail]>, Philippe CUVINOT
><[e-mail]> wrote:

>> Hola,
>>
>> Soy francΘs y estoy buscando a amigos para conversar acerca de temas
>> latino americanos. Me interesa muchφsimo la cultura precolombina y
>> estoy realizando una pßgina a prop≤sito de las grandes civilizaciones.
>> Escribanme para darme ideas interesantes. Gracias.
>> Hasta pronto, Philippe.

>Hola Philippe,

>   Yo soy frances tambien, y vivo en Los Angeles, California. Trabajo como
>bibliotecario especializado en literatura mexicana y centro americana, en
>la University of Southern California. Me gustaria conversar contigo en
>cualquier idioma (espanol, frances, ingles) y ayudarte. Aqui en el sur de
>la California hay mucha gente de habla hispana y muchas organizaciones
>culturales : mexicanas, salvadorenas, hondurenas......bueno una fuente muy
>larga de posibilidades. Puedes usar mi correo electronico directamente

>[e-mail]

>espero hablar contigo muy pronto!  gracias

>JEAN-LUC


>JEAN-LUC ESTRELLA
>DOHENY MEMORIAL LIBRARY
>UNIVERSITY PARK CAMPUS
>LOS ANGELES, CA, 90089
>U.S.A.




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:47 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (tom medin)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: feeding rotatable antenna with ladder line
Date: 30 Dec 95 10:47:48 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

<[e-mail] (WB3U)  wrote:
<I've heard of some installations that used this type construction all
<the way from the tuner to the antenna.  I assume that SWR must be
<kept to a more reasonable level than with ladder line, to avoid
<excess loss.

well, i now plan on open wire up to the mast (in the spring).  the
reason for this is to be able to use the 20m monobander antenna on
most higher bands (30m - 10m), so i will see quite high SWR, on some
bands.  i just want a way to get past the rotating point with "no"
loss in a high SWR line.

now there seems to be a thread on balanced tuners.  what's wrong with
the "Balanced Balanced Antenna Tuner" balanced L network in Feb '90
QST?


t medin
n0ufm


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:48 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!wizard.pn.com!brighton.openmarket.com!decwrl!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!pinetree
From: [e-mail] (WB3U)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Sparkgap lightning protector
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 95 10:58:24 GMT
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4c3ujn$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: pinetree.microserve.com
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

   [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom) wrote:

>I have a book "1001 Uses for Cats". It says cats make good lightning
>arrestors on page 23.
>
>Seriously, the best solution is to unhook and unplug everything.

I had my cat unplugged.  Now he hates me.

73,
Jack  WB3U

"Run Away!!!!  Run Away!!!!"  Monty Python


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:49 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Feeding vertical with balanced line
Date: 30 Dec 1995 12:36:42 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 48
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4c3tba$[e-mail]>
References: <4c2c7v$ko9$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <4c2c7v$ko9$[e-mail]>, Steve Beyers
<[e-mail]> writes:
Hi Steve,

Congrats again on your tenacity. I'm happy to see you measure things to
confirm the results.

>     I tried a balun with a single biflar winding on
>an iron powder toroid core at the antenna feedpoint.
>It helped, so added another one in series.  That gave
>me almost perfect balance on 20 meters and 30 meters.
>However, on the lower bands the unbalance reappeared,
>and on 160 it was almost 2 to 1.  This leads me to
>believe i'm on the right track.  Am I going to run
>into some other problem if I keep making the balun
>bigger to work on the lower frequencies?

Not if you use a series of baluns with little mutual coupling, and don't
bring the system into unwanted series resonance. If you followed the Doty
thread, you will see that you now have a problem of the balun impedance
not being high enough for the base and ground system impedance on 160. So
the station ground and feedline is part of the antenna system now. Perhaps
a second core with a higher perm mix would be better for 160 and 80.

Powdered iron is just way too low perm. I would recommend a stack of 43
material cores. Just a few passes through a four tall stack of 2" diameter
43 material cores would be enough for 160, and not give a problem on 20
through 10 meters. I like to strip the shield off and use the center of
RG-58 because the voltage breakdown is very high.

>Will they start to heat up and dissipate energy?

Not if you watch the Q of the core at the operating frequency, and the
voltage per turn. Maybe use two different materials in two independent
chokes. A lower perm for the HF end  (like 68 material with a Q>200 over
the upper HF region) followed by a 43 material for the low end.

>If this works,
>I'm getting close to what I want - an all-band vertical,
>with conjugate matching, all done in the shack, with
>no matching at the antenna.  What do you think?  Thanks.

Sounds like a great idea! The only problems I see are the large voltages
Jack mentioned that may appear on some bands. Too bad no one sells good HV
rated choke baluns. If the dielectrics all held up we's be in business.
Keep us posted, I know Jack and others are interested.

73 Tom


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:51 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.dpc.net!news.heurikon.com!news.ahc.ameritech.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu3news.netcom.com!netcomsv!uu4news.netcom.com!acd!Gary_Danaher
From: [e-mail] (Gary Danaher)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: HELP!  R-7 Problem?
Date: 30 Dec 1995 12:58:13 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Apple Corps of Dallas
Lines: 16

>>>>   Hi, guys.  I just got a Kenwood TS-870S and hooked it up to an R-7 I
have had up since summer.  For a day or two the R-7 seemed to load with
the SWR at 1.4 or so and the Power at 110 Watts or so.  Now that it is
raining, the SWR is 2-3 and the power is at 2-5 Watts.  On some bands I
get no SWR reading and no power.  Any Ideas?

The R7 uses traps to resonate. If the traps short, and they do from time to
time, the antenna will not see itself at the proper length. Trying to make
this real simple, you probably will need to take it down and look at each
trap. At least one of them isn't working properly, so it will need to be
fixed or replaced. Beyond that, tuning on the R7 is possible. A 1.4 swr is
not wonderful if that is as good as it gets on the band. This antenna should
do better than that, at some point, on every band it is designed for. Tune up
and down the band or use an analyzer to find the pont of resonance, and then
adjust lengths to get the swr down. Watch out for metal attached to the house
nearby--rain gutters, metal roofing, etc. This too could affect the swr.


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:52 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Sparkgap lightning protector
Date: 30 Dec 1995 12:58:15 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 19
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4c3ujn$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (WB3U) writes:

>
>Personally, if I ever saw my Matchbox arcing from the coil to chassis,
>I wouldn't connect the rig again until I had installed a knife switch
>from both both sides of the ladder line to ground.  Whenever a storm
>came over, and/or whenever I wasn't on the air, I would throw the
>switch and disconnect the rig from the tuner.
>
>73,
>Jack  WB3U

I have a book "1001 Uses for Cats". It says cats make good lightning
arrestors on page 23.

Seriously, the best solution is to unhook and unplug everything.

73 Tom


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:53 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.uwa.edu.au!classic.iinet.com.au!news
From: [e-mail] (Rod Grasso)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Improving mobile phone fringe reception?
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 14:28:12 GMT
Organization: Kingdom Software
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <4c4e59$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: slip1.collective.com.au
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

I have been asked to improve communication for a friend who lives on
the fringe of mobile phone coverage (analog approx 870 Mhz).  As this
is his only means of communication I would appreciate any advice for
constructing a hi gain/directional home base antenna that he could
connect his phone to.  I have a few books on antennas but none cover
anything near this frequency.
Thanks.
[e-mail]




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:55 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!overload.lbl.gov!agate!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk
From: Ian G3SEK <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once again
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 14:32:33 +0000
Organization: IFWtech
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <30e295a2.471180@137.149.3.1> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: ifwtech.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.9.1
X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!ifwtech.demon.co.uk

Forrest Gehrke K2BT wrote in response to David Seeler:
:
: DS> I wonder how much other material in the handbooks need external
: DS> review? After all this is 1995 - and concerns re this particlar
: DS> issue were raised more than 3 years ago..........
:
: DS> I would agree with Ian - the editors should be more critical and if
: DS> necessary submit the paper for peer/external review. Otherwise we
: DS> (not just in Amateur radio - but in all fields where we try to
: DS> advance the state of the art) can generate lots of DATA but is it
: DS> meaningful information?

Since accuracy is what this thread is all about, David was actually
agreeing with Tom W8JI  :-)

Forrest makes several good points about the difficulty of publishing
articles that are completely accurate.

The peer review process is very difficult to administer, and because
editors have to rely on volunteer effort there can be enormous delays.
Also the quality of amateur radio peer reviewing is very patchy, and this
in turn creates resentment among authors. In fact the process of getting an
article published has made many new authors swear never to write anything
again. Amateur radio is much the poorer for that.

On the other hand, once you become an accepted author you can write
practically anything! There is a great temptation for editors to skip any
kind of review process for authors whom they think they can trust.
I've experienced this as an author, an editor and of course as an ordinary
reader. It's particularly dangerous for us regular monthly columnists.

Many new amateur authors submit good technical ideas, but don't communicate
them well. In-house re-writing is sometimes the answer, but it isn't the
whole solution unless the technical editors are at least as competent as
the original author - and also unless they are given the time to do a
thorough job.

As Forrest said:
: You're asking too much of editors.  They couldn't possibly have
: the technical savvy to encompass all of the subjects that come
: across their desks.  Coupled with this is the constant demand
: for good editorial material and time constraints in publishing a
: magazine.

: Too often, however, for a variety of reasons they fail to
: respond to objections to what has been published.

True. The more effort the editors put into achieving technical accuracy,
the less likely they may be to acknowledge mistakes when they do occur.
A lively technical correspondence page with short deadlines is one
solution, but even with a monthly magazine the turnaround time of
article-comment-response can be several months. With a quarterly, that can
easily extend to a year or more.

As Forrest said, it doesn't end with the original article. If the original
article fills a gap in previous knowledge, it will be quoted and used -
even if it's incorrect. To make matters worse, the amateur radio publishing
industry has a strong tendency to quote and re-quote itself in so-called
"handbooks" which may receive very little technical review because the
source material is already supposed to be OK.

The Internet will help to change all that. In these newsgroups we have
exactly the kind of exchange that is needed to make sure that technical
articles are debated as freely and thoroughly as they need to be. The fact
that it's being done in the open should also make editors more accountable
for whatever they choose to publish - or to omit.

It's all to easy for editors to become hypnotized by the need to feature
brand-new ideas. But new knowledge also extends *backwards*, into areas we
thought we understood - but actually didn't.

Whenever we discover something new, we need to revisit everything we though
we already knew, to check that it still makes sense. And if it doesn't, we
need to be prepared to admit it.


--
73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
Professionally:
IFW Technical Services     Clear technical English - anywhere.



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:56 1996
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.nic.surfnet.nl!sun4nl!inter.nl.net!waasdorp
From: Coen Waasdorp <[e-mail]>
Subject: Attn Hams in Germany. Experience with the HX 002 A1 dipole?
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ldn98-25.leiden.nl.net
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News at news)
Organization: NL Net
X-Newsreader: Turnpike Version 1.06 <V3qIi1cDYF6SVYARD7$C+H0$PN>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 1995 16:20:32 GMT
Lines: 16

Hi there,

In the Funk magazine issue 1/96 there was an article about a dipole made
by Rohde & Schwarz.

It is the HX 002 A1 and covers the range from 1,5 Mhz to 30 Mhz.
The dipole is connected at the base to a matching unit.

Does any one have any experience with this dipole?

Tks coop

73
--
Coen Waasdorp
PA0COE


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:57 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!nntp.coast.net!torn!news.unb.ca!scratchy.mi.net!fougereg
From: [e-mail] (fougereg)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Base Antenna
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 95 18:04:14 GMT
Organization: MIS Saint John
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <4c3uuu$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fougereg.mi.net
To: all
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #3

My father is in the process of setting up a base station.  All he needs is an
antenna and would like to build one.  Does anyone out there have any plans for

building a good antenna for this.

Thanks in advance!

Geoff
email [e-mail]


      _____________________________________________________
                            Geoff Fougere
                         Email [e-mail]
      _____________________________________________________


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:58 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!info.ucla.edu!galaxy.ucr.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news1.ucsd.edu!news-mail-gateway
From: [e-mail] (Lawrence Stoskopf)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Doty, peer review, sort of...(an aside)
Date: 30 Dec 95 20:57:04 GMT
Organization: ucsd usenet gateway
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu
Originator: [e-mail]

Gee guys.  Don't feel bad about lack of or poor peer review in our hobby
magazines.  This is off the subject of this mailing list, but some might
find it of interest.

  If you give steroids (cortisone) for a long period of time, the body stops
making very much because of feedback (you are getting enough so why make
any?). And it takes a while for your adrenals to get back into production.
One of the purposes of those steroids is to allow you to respond to stress.
So if you are on steroids and stop taking it or worse if you get operated on
or become severely injured or sick, you need more and as you can't make any
for a while, it has to come from a shot, pill, etc. or you may die very
suddenly.  Since the time I started anesthesia residency 20+ years ago until
now, the rule is give a dose the night before surgery, one the morning of,
and another during surgery....even if it were a cataract surgery or
something with little stress.

  A few years ago, a curious endocrinologist though that this didn't make
sense as an injected dose lasts only a few hours and the day before dose is
gone long before the added stress.  So he started looking up references to
current articles, then looked up those articles references, etc. until they
converged somewhere back in the 40's at the time when cortisone was just
being developed. One article, one death after surgery on a patient who had
been on big doses of cortisone and had very small adrenals at autopsy.  To
paraphrase (from memory) the author's conclusions.."gee guys, we really
don't know what happened, but based on this case, it looks like maybe we
should give a dose the night before....."

  Any guesses about the current recommendation for pre-treatment?  What
expert witnesses say at trials?  Even in a profession where publish or
perish is the rule and articles are rejected for the slightest reviewer's
reasons.

  I really have enjoyed the Doty thread.  Thanks to those adding a lot of
insight on the science and politics.  Now for some measurements?  As one of
my staff used to qoute from somewhere, "It is not enough to believe, one
must know"

BTW:  If I were a big bird that could only see at, say 1296, and I flew
around a big yagi at that frequency that was perfectly terminated, what
would I see?  These things are important.

Lawrence E. Stoskopf
N0UU



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:03:59 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!agate!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!li.net!bbruhns
From: [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Off-center fed dipole?
Date: 31 Dec 1995 05:54:53 GMT
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <4c58jd$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: linet04.li.net
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

  You can connect an 80 and a 40 meter dipole to the same feedline.  Just
let the 40 meter section droop down so it's at least a few inches away from
the 80 meter section, and it will work.  Feed it with 50 ohm coax (RG-8
is fine) and preferably use a W2DU sleeve balun.

  There is a little interaction tuning this antenna, but it's not bad.

  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:00 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Doty article once again
Date: 31 Dec 1995 06:41:27 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 39
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4c5st7$[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

In article <[e-mail]>, Ian G3SEK
<[e-mail]> writes:
>The Internet will help to change all that. In these newsgroups we have
>exactly the kind of exchange that is needed to make sure that technical
>articles are debated as freely and thoroughly as they need to be. The
fact
>that it's being done in the open should also make editors more
accountable
>for whatever they choose to publish - or to omit.
>
>It's all to easy for editors to become hypnotized by the need to feature
>brand-new ideas. But new knowledge also extends *backwards*, into areas
we
>thought we understood - but actually didn't.
>
>Whenever we discover something new, we need to revisit everything we
though
>we already knew, to check that it still makes sense. And if it doesn't,
we
>need to be prepared to admit it.
>73 from Ian G3SEK

A good friend of mine that recently passed away was head of QC for NASA.
His favorite saying was "Never accept one source for critical data." I
always thought that should be printed on the cover of every book and
magazine, and above the door of every publishers office.

The problem is, as you said, once misinformation fills a gap....it is
repeated and repeated without regard to it's accuracy. But usually you can
follow it back in through the loops to one source. I am always particulary
leary of articles that only reference other articles written by the same
guy writing the article I am reading. For example, Ricky Hamm writes an
nice article on amplifiers full of foot notes or references....and the
notes all refer to things written by....Ricky Hamm.

A very good response Ian, and it echos my thoughts exactly. Internet can
be a good forum to weed out misinformation, or at least present another
view!
 73 Tom


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:01 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.heurikon.com!uwvax!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!news.kei.com!ub!newserve!bingsun2-gw!geotek
From: tom <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: HF ANTENNA HELP?
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 10:13:31 -0500
Organization: Binghamton University, Binghamton, NY
Lines: 4
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951231101024.14391B-100000@bingsun2-gw>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.226.1.20
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Sender: geotek@bingsun2-gw

Need help! Want to operate HF from a new Chevy LUMNIA van.
The van is plastic. I would prefer a low cost small profile antenna.
Window mount,roof mount?  Any suggestions?   Tom WA2ANG



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:02 1996
Path: news.epix.net!mango.epix.net!will
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: LPDA dimensions anyone?
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 10:14:05 -0500
Organization: epix.net
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mango.epix.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Anybody know the element dimensions for a 5-element 10/12/15/17/20m
Log Periodic Dipole Array.  I have one but not too interested in climbing
the tower to measure right now - and I have a South American contact who
is eager to build one.

post or email to [e-mail] - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA

thanks


 long el 33.8 '          boom 12'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   ||
                                   ||
                                   ||
        ----------------------------------------------------------
                                   ||
                                   ||
                                   ||
                --------------------------------------------
                                   ||
                                   ||
                                   ||
                        ---------------------------
                                   ||
                                   ||
                                   ||
                              -------------


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:03 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!microvst.demon.co.uk
From: "Anthony R. Gold" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GPS antenna alternative
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 95 10:23:59 GMT
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
Lines: 14
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4c5d6c$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: microvst.demon.co.uk
X-Newsreader: Demon Internet Simple News v1.29
X-Mail2News-Path: microvst.demon.co.uk

In article <4c5d6c$[e-mail]> [e-mail] "Stephen Cava" writ
es:

> Is anyone aware of a good antenna alternative to the magellan gps nav.
> system. I am not that interested in the 3D mode, but would like accurate
> 2D mode operation. Thanks in advance for all help.

Try also asking in sci.geo.satellite-nav where folks know all about these.

Regards,
--
   Tony - G3SKR / AA2PM                  email: [e-mail]
                                                [e-mail]
                                        packet: g3skr@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:04 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.pe.net!news.corpcomm.net!funny.bahnhof.se!news
From: Ernst Wingborg <Ernst [e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Antenna
Date: 31 Dec 1995 12:29:58 GMT
Organization: Bahnhof Internet Access
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <4c5vo6$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pppnode4.bahnhof.se

The secund issue of the Swedish Radio Amateurmagasin QTC contents
a lot of artikels about antennas. Mostly in Swedish language but ewen
some text written in english. The price is about 10 US dollar
If you want to buy one magazin you can order it from
SSA Sveriges SΣndaramat÷rer
╓stmarksgatan 43
S-123 42 Farsta
Sweden

Or from the editor:
SM0RGP Ernst Wingborg
TrΣkvista Bygata 36
S-178 37 Eker÷
Sweden

Fax +(0)8 560 306 48
Or E-net: [e-mail]




From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:05 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ionews.ionet.net!usenet
From: Hank Blackstock <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: GPS antenna alternative
Date: 31 Dec 1995 12:32:19 GMT
Organization: IONet
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <4c5vsj$[e-mail]>
References: <4c5d6c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: osip35.ionet.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (Stephen Cava) wrote:
>Is anyone aware of a good antenna alternative to the magellan gps nav.
>system. I am not that interested in the 3D mode, but would like accurate
>2D mode operation. Thanks in advance for all help.
>
>Later,
>Steve

A different antenna will have no affect on the accuracy of a
GPS. Don't quite understand what you mean about accurate 2D.
When the gps has received enough satellites for 2D you have to
enter your known altitude to get good accuracy, but you don't
need to because within a min or two it will have enough sats
for 3D. The only way to increase accuracy is to use some sort
or differential means (compare readings of two GPS's. one at a
known point). The accuracy of a gps is 100meters due to the DOD
skewing of the data. Actually it is normally better than that
but that is what you can depend on.

73 Hank



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:06 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (W8JI  Tom)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: References re Stacked Rhombics
Date: 31 Dec 1995 12:35:45 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 46
Sender: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <4c6hlh$[e-mail]>
References: <4c5st7$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader

Subject:        Re: References re Stacked Rhombics
From:   [e-mail] (paul Veltman)
Date:   Sun, 31 Dec 1995 04:20:52 GMT

George L. Hiscox ([e-mail]) wrote:
: During the past few evenings I have been computer modeling some
: rhombics using EZNEC.  It occurred to me that there might be
: something to be gained by stacking them as one might stack yagis.
: I have checked the usual antenna references and have been unable
: to locate any writings on stacked rhombics.

Hi George,

This is close to being a Heretic in the church of antennas, but here's my
view.

Stacked Rhombics will work if that is the type of antenna you want to use,
but much smaller antennas can have higher gain.

One area almost always ignored, and one the modeling program you are using
won't handle, are near-field ground losses in the area of the antenna. The
second is the power actually radiated along the wire. Kuecklin had an
excellent book (now out of print) detailing actual measurements of
Rhombics, V's, and other long wire arrays in real test range measurements.
It showed for leg lengths between 3.3 and 3.9 WL long the gain actually
levels off and then eventually decreases because of current taper in the
wire and wasted power in additional minor lobes. That was for antenna
heights of 1/3 the leg length.

Page  4-34 of Antenna Engineering Handbook by Jasik gives an idea of how
much power remains at the far end of Rhombic. The text indicates the
amount of power left to be dissipated in the terminating resistance is
less than 50% in a Rhombic of 2 wl per leg, and 15 percent when the legs
are 5 wl or more per side. The taper of power is the reason making a
Rhombic very long is a waste of time (for gain), and why stacking shorter
Rhombics will help.

Stacking Rhombics, feeding them in end fire pairs, or any other
combination will work better than making the antenna longer. But the gain
will never be as high as an endfire or broadside array will produce in
half the space! VOA's curtain arrays look very small compared to their
Rhombics, but have several dB more gain.

Happy New Year,
Tom



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:07 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!worldlinx.com!news.worldlinx.com!news
From: Francois Berube <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Vertical HF antenna HF6V
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:42:11 -0800
Organization: Club Radio Amateur de Quebec Inc.
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.101.89.48
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)

Hello to you, i was using a Butternut HF6V antenna on the ground rear my
house, so i moved to another house and i want to know if i can install
this antenna in the top of the roof ??

thank you
Frank
[e-mail]
[e-mail]


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:07 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!waikato!comp.vuw.ac.nz!central.co.nz!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Terence Blyth)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Help Construction of HF Vertical antenna 80-20 m
Date: 31 Dec 1995 13:38:51 GMT
Organization: Internet Company of New Zealand - Wellington
Lines: 5
Message-ID: <4c63pb$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sod.central.co.nz
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.14

Can any one out there help with construction details of the above
antenna for base station use.
If so please reply
                        Regards Daniel Blyth (ZL3AV)



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:08 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!ratty.wolfe.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Alan Burgstahler)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Improving mobile phone fringe reception?
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 15:24:31 GMT
Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <4c6a9f$[e-mail]>
References: <4c4e59$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sea-ts1-p10.wolfenet.com
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Rod Grasso) wrote:

>I have been asked to improve communication for a friend who lives on
>the fringe of mobile phone coverage (analog approx 870 Mhz).  As this
>is his only means of communication I would appreciate any advice for
>constructing a hi gain/directional home base antenna that he could
>connect his phone to.  I have a few books on antennas but none cover
>anything near this frequency.

There are a number of companies that make yagis for this frequency band
for the exact purpose that you are stating.  I know that in the U.S.
our company deals with a two-way radio distributor that sells, among many
other things, yagis for this purpose.  They can be found at www.tessco.com.
You might look there for ideas, at least.




Alan - WA6AWD - Kent, WA, USA     [e-mail]



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:09 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.ssd.intel.com!chnews!vegas.ch.intel.com!cmoore
From: [e-mail] (Cecil A. Moore~)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: SB-201 SWR
Date: 31 Dec 1995 17:45:16 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Chandler, AZ
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <4c6i7c$[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: vegas.ch.intel.com

Bought me a SB-201 for Xmas. Two tubes and a pi-net output.
The load is 100 ohms, resistive, and I think the pi-net
achieves a conjugate match with no reflections. The SB-201
SWR meter is calibrated for 50 ohms and reads 2:1  What
function does the SWR meter serve? The manual says not to
allow the SWR over 3:1 but the SWR meter is not measuring
the SWR unless it's a flat 50 ohm system. Anybody know the
conjugate matching range of the SB-201?

thanks and 73, Cecil, KG7BK, OOTC  (not speaking for my employer)


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:10 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!news
From: Chris Boone <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Stacking 6m square loops?
Date: 31 Dec 1995 19:16:04 GMT
Organization: ENTERGY/Gulf States Utilities
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <4c6nhk$ppu$[e-mail]>

Should be the same as stacking halos, etc...I think the antenna handbook
recommends 1/2wave or full wave center to center......there should be no
difference between the antennas you have the a squalo/dipole as far as
stacking/feeding, etc

73
Chris
--
Senior Telecommunications Technician  [e-mail]
ENTERGY/Gulf States Utilities         1:106/4267 FIDOnet
WB5ITT - Advanced Class               BBS- 409-447-4267 (WBBS)
PG-9-5322  FCC Commercial             409-525-2001 PhoneMail 24hr


From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:11 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!sparky.midwest.net!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Gayle Albert)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: VHF/UHF Log Periodic
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 19:18:24 GMT
Organization: Midwest Internet
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <4c6nlk$[e-mail]>
References: <c1d7cb$1714b.2e5@NEWS>
NNTP-Posting-Host: dial4-27.midwest.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

[e-mail] (Glenn Thorn) wrote:

>Has anyone seen, have, or heard of any plans for a VHF/UHF log
>periodic?  Any software?

>Thanks,

>de Glenn, KE3MF


Glenn:

Take a look in the ARRL Antenna Book. Their coverage of LPDA design is
quite good.

Any LPDA design work involves some tedious (but not difficult) math.
If you have a decent calculator, all will be well.

I have a Lotus 123 spreadsheet that I did a long time ago for doing at
least the major LPDA work, but it is _very_ rough! I have not seen a
true design program for LPDAs.


Marty Albert (Amatuer Radio Station KC6UFM)
PO Box 717
Fredericktown, MO  63645



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:13 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!decwrl!sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!jordans.demon.co.uk
From: Steve Jordan <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Vertical HF antenna HF6V
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 21:42:18 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: jordans.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Sunday, Dec 31, 1995 21.42.18
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7
X-Mail2News-Path: relay-4.mail.demon.net!post.demon.co.uk!jordans.demon.co.uk

In article: <[e-mail]>  Francois Berube <[e-mail].c
a>
writes:
> Path:
demon.co.uk!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.n
et!worl
dlinx.com!news.worldlinx.com!news
> From: Francois Berube <[e-mail]>
> Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
> Subject: Vertical HF antenna HF6V
> Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:42:11 -0800
> Organization: Club Radio Amateur de Quebec Inc.
> Lines: 8
> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.101.89.48
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b3 (Win16; I)
>
> Hello to you, i was using a Butternut HF6V antenna on the ground rear my
> house, so i moved to another house and i want to know if i can install
> this antenna in the top of the roof ??
>
> thank you
> Frank
> [e-mail]
> [e-mail]
>
> Hello Frank
> You should be able to install the HF6V in the top of the roof but you'll nee
d
  to install tuned radials for an above ground installation for the bands you
want
  to use it on.  The instructions give some warnings about the radials being
  interfered with by any metal guttering.

Good luck

Steve
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Steve Jordan    EMail [e-mail]                         |
|   G0SNJ                                                                 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From Unknown Mon Jan 01 01:04:13 1996
Path: news.epix.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsrelay.netins.net!news.netins.net!usenet
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna
Subject: Re: Off-center fed dipole?
Date: 31 Dec 1995 22:42:11 GMT
Organization: INS Information Services, Des Moines, IA USA
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <4c58jd$[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
NNTP-Posting-Host: ins.netins.net

In article <4c58jd$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bob Bruhns) w
rites:
>  You can connect an 80 and a 40 meter dipole to the same feedline.  Just
>let the 40 meter section droop down so it's at least a few inches away from
>the 80 meter section, and it will work.  Feed it with 50 ohm coax (RG-8
>is fine) and preferably use a W2DU sleeve balun.
>
>  There is a little interaction tuning this antenna, but it's not bad.
>
>  Bob Bruhns, WA3WDR, [e-mail]

Bob: As a matter of fact I am currently using a 40 and 20 meter dipole "fanned
" in
just the way you suggest. Come spring I hope to have something more sexy but f
or
now it works well enough. Its easy to get up and I have only one feedline. I m
ade
it out of junk I had laying around.
If he had too small a lot he could put up the antenna as a vee and it should d
o
pretty well. Also a full wave loop on 80 could be made to fit the lot, if a
high enough support could be found.
Good luck de WB0FDJ