home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
OS/2 Shareware BBS: 8 Other
/
08-Other.zip
/
week_2.zip
/
Framing.txt
< prev
next >
Wrap
Text File
|
1996-01-08
|
30KB
|
583 lines
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Monday, January 01, 1996 3:24:05 AM
From: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 #69845
> ...Moore's message to me is, "Jon, at the end of January all OS/2
> users will be distributed among Moore's categories with respect to
> desktop calendars."
That's a way of looking at Moore that I hadn't considered in any depth. Unfortunately, if the market is
as transient as the product (or its marketing strategy), it makes 'hitting' the target market that much
more difficult (although no sane marketeer hopes to capture an entire market). Thanks for the
perspective!
--Sam. (Warped & using GCP 2.22)
sam_little@iacnet.com
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 Monday, January 01, 1996 10:48:14 AM
From: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 #69863
>> if the market is as transient as the product
IMO it is -more- transient, in the sense that individuals are constantly moving from one category to
another, driven by personal circumstances as ephemeral as their mood or state of health. Today,
Joe User can be a "laggard" with respect to (w.r.t.) desktop calendars yet simultaneously be an
"innovator" w.r.t. database managers. Next week, after Joe commits to using a particular database
manager for the project that he's just begun, he might be the ultimate "laggard" w.r.t. database
managers, in the sense that he is completely uninterested in any news regarding that product
category.
IOW, the category that Joe User falls into depends on the product category, and for any given
product category, is ephemeral.
>> makes 'hitting' the target market that much more difficult
I don't see why. The only implication of the above is that the names of the individuals change. Let's
say that you have a desktop calendar that is discontinuous enough that you've decided to market it,
initially, to the "innovators". Now, let's say that you are deciding whether to launch at the end of
January or at the end of February. The only implication of the above is that many of the "innovators"
in the market for calendars at the end of January will no longer be "innovators" at the end of
February, and that they will be replaced by new arrivals in that category in February.
The effect on concluding the sales cycle successfully with any one prospect is more significant. If
people move from one category to another, ephemerally, that means that you need to close the sale
quickly. For example, if you're market communication is based on the assumption that your
prospects are innovators, you'd better close the sale before those individuals flit away into another
category. IOW, "I'm interested today, but I might not be tomorrow!".
>> Thanks for the perspective!
And thank you, Sam, for this stimulating conversation.
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Monday, January 01, 1996 10:31:14 PM
From: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 #69900
> Today, Joe User can be a "laggard" with respect to (w.r.t.)
> desktop calendars yet simultaneously be an "innovator" w.r.t.
> database managers. Next week, after Joe commits to using a
> particular database manager for the project that he's just begun,
> he might be the ultimate "laggard" w.r.t. database managers, in
> the sense that he is completely uninterested in any news regarding
> that product category.
Funny, but reading this, one wonders (well, "I wonder" <g>) how "office suites" could be as successful
as they have been....
> >> makes 'hitting' the target market that much more difficult
>
> I don't see why.
Moore's implication is that separate marketing approaches are required for the innovators, early
adopters, etc. Simply put, a product cannot be bleeding-edge, cutting-edge, and
established-technology all at the same time. As one moves farther along the bell-curve, the product
starts to lose the appeal of its previous market, as they move to newer technologies (and there will
always be newer technologies).
This makes timing absolutely critical.
> The only implication of the above is that many of the "innovators"
> in the market for calendars at the end of January will no longer
> be "innovators" at the end of February, and that they will be
> replaced by new arrivals in that category in February.
Early in the process, I agree. The problem is once you move on to early adopters or early majority. I
tend to move the opposite direction in some technologies, for instance (e.g., the current offerings
don't meet my needs, so I have to move to less well-established products). This often works even if
the newer products don't meet my criteria either as I may be able to influence futher development of
that product -- for instance, I got Markus Schmidt to make a minor change in ZOC which made the
product ideal for my circumstances. I wouldn't expect the same from Hilgraeve, and certainly not as
quickly as it happened!
So ships may pass in the night, so to speak <g>.
> If people move from one category to another, ephemerally, that
> means that you need to close the sale quickly.
Agreed.
> And thank you, Sam, for this stimulating conversation.
Well, as I've found it difficult to "do the homework" wrt specific questions about the product and its
marketing stragegy (as there is none), keeping the discussion going seems my best bet....
--Sam. (Warped & using GCP 2.22)
sam_little@iacnet.com
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 Tuesday, January 02, 1996 11:03:25 AM
From: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 #69932
>> how "office suites" could be as successful as they have been....
Bundling might be an effective general strategy for marketing to the late majority, i.e. to people who
don't care a whit about the difference in capabilities between the spreadsheet that is bundled and
the spreadsheet that is currently the latest and greatest.
I didn't mean to say that everyone is always bouncing from category to category. Network
administrators, in terms of the dollar value of their PO's, are probably forced to take their positions in
the late majority, regardless of their -personal- work styles. I.e. they might have the latest and
greatest on their -own- machine, but that doesn't reflect how they spend money on the 1000 node
network.
>> separate marketing approaches are required for the innovators, early adopters, etc.
Yes, I don't see why the movement of individuals from category to category makes marketing
difficult. It complicates the -sales- relationship with the individual prospect, but it does not affect one's
marketing program. First, you implement a marketing program designed to appeal to, and meet the
expectations of, innovators. You might run this program for 12 months. Over that 12 month period,
individuals move in and out of the "innovator" population, but so what? For the next 12 months, you
implement a new program that targets "early adopters". Again, during that 12 month period,
individuals move in an out of the "early adopter" population. Your sales manager will care about
this, but your marketing manager will not.
>> This makes timing absolutely critical.
In business, getting it 80% right is often good enough. IMO, realizing that you need to market to
innovators first, then you need to transition to a marketing program aimed at early adopters, is 80%
of the game. I think that if you are thinking and acting along those lines, and you are aware of the
pulse of your sales relationships, then the timing issue will take care of itself. You can't finesse this
too much; it's more like "driving" an elephant than a sports car.
>> I got Markus Schmidt to make a minor change in ZOC which made the product ideal for my
circumstances.
Markus is a great example of why OS/2 users should take a serious look at the products in GO
OS2SHARE periodically.
>> I've found it difficult to "do the homework"... [without having a] product
Sam, I invite you and others who have not yet released a product to adopt "how to launch a
meterware community" as your foster child marketing problem. Anyone interested can post
questions about meterware in the "Shareware Issues" section of GO OS2SHARE. That way, we can
discuss meterware over there and keep this forum focused on Moore's book.
We can call it the Meterware Launch Team. We can discuss the Moore book here, and then go over
to OS2SHARE and get to work on how to -apply- Moore's ideas to launch a meterware community.
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Wednesday, January 03, 1996 3:53:04 AM
From: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 #70038
> Bundling might be an effective general strategy for marketing to
> the late majority
Something else I've failed to consider ... you've done it again!
> I didn't mean to say that everyone is always bouncing from
> category to category.
I don't think you did say that, either <g>. There are probably all possible combinations out there
somewhere....
> Yes, I don't see why the movement of individuals from category to
> category makes marketing difficult. It complicates the -sales-
> relationship with the individual prospect, but it does not affect
> one's marketing program.
I was thinking somewhat about apps that "fuse" disparate product elements ... things that are
innovative in some way, yet conservative in others. Banking or professional accounting systems, for
instance (thinking of that article in OS/2 Mag <g>), where the interface is truely innovative (compared
to other interfaces out there), yet the principle underlying transaction are more-or-less the same ones
any such system would do.
While the above is a fairly simple two-item situation (foreground and background), some packages
may have many subsystems fitting into a whole range from the innovative to the now-mundane. Is
such a system more or less difficult to market? Is it more or less likely to appeal to innovators, early
adopters or the majority? Do I need to read ahead in the book (or beyond the first 5 pages of Chap.
3)?
I have the natural tendency to attempt to consider possible breaking points early on in any
systematic analysis of a problem because it provides the basis for what (I think) are better questions
to get answered. So don't take my negativity as pessimism or criticism; it's just my way of working out
what perhaps requires further thought.
> I think that if you are thinking and acting along those lines, and
> you are aware of the pulse of your sales relationships, then the
> timing issue will take care of itself.
Yes, I would think that recognition of the "then there is no market" part of the process is crucial.
Otherwise one would be like a squirrel who hasn't prepared for winter.
> I invite you and others who have not yet released a product to
> adopt "how to launch a meterware community" as your foster child
> marketing problem.
Of course, you realise that the problem with attempting to do such a think is that I know very little
about the product or its market. It would make more sense for me to use Cognito! (which, at least, is
usable under OS/2) and/or IAC's entire product line (which are geared specifically to deal with the
numerous different markets (as Moore describes them ... the doctors and the engineers) in the
Information Sciences world.
OTOH, if you mention something on meterware that I (or anyone else) wants to pursue further, I have
no problem with piping in here or in OS2Share....
--Sam. (Warped & using GCP 2.22)
sam_little@iacnet.com
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 Wednesday, January 03, 1996 11:31:16 AM
From: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 #70065
>> some packages may have many subsystems fitting into a whole range from the innovative to the
now-mundane. Is such a system more or less difficult to market?
With conventional channels, we ask the customer to purchase the software and we set a price. Your
observation suggests that the advanced features won't be appreciated (or even wanted) by some
users, while the mundane features won't excite the innovator and early adopter users. The problem
here is that you're trying to sell the same software to everyone.
Now consider distributing the same software as meterware. First, you would identify the menu items
that are mundane and the menu items that are advanced. You'd call the Sally Sales (tm) API each
time a menu item is selected, and you'd specify either the authorId for mundane or the authorId for
advanced. You'd set two prices for the product, one for the mundane features and the other for the
advanced. Finally, you'd design two independent marketing programs, one targeting the late
majority and one targeting the early adopters.
With meterware, there is no limit to this. Everyone gets the software itself for free, so there's no
hassle. If you want to, you can market each and every menu item (even if there are hundreds) as a
separate product, using a separate price and a separate marketing program.
>> I know very little about [meterware]
Pick whatever product interests you, and learn enough about it to use as your "case example" as
you read Moore. Anyone who chooses the problem of "how to launch a meterware community" can
discuss the particulars with me over in the Issues section of OS2SHARE. One benefit of picking
meterware is that you'd become familiar with meterware and would be involved in actually working
on a real marketing problem rather than just talking about what someone -else- is doing.
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:21:16 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70484
You're missing a critical stage in the marketing of meterware software; convincing the user to
download and install the software. Only if the user is willing to do this is there an issue of convincing
him to use it more heavily. Note that shareware has the same problem; you have to convince the
user to try it before you can convince him to register it.
In both cases trying out the software involves a certain amount of expense on the user's part, mostly
in the form of manpower. An effective promotion of the software must take this into account.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066Sunday, January 07, 1996 1:29:13 PM
From: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 #70503
>> You're missing a critical stage in the marketing of meterware software; convincing the user to
download and install the software... expense on the user's part, mostly in the form of manpower
I'll tell you why I resist d/l'ing s/w. (1) Will it be easy to install? (2) Will it be easy to remove? (3) Will it
politely refrain from touching the other objects in my computer?
It only takes three words of marketing to overcome this resistance: YES, YES, YES. IOW, the
obstacle that you are highlighting is -not- overcome in marketing; it is overcome by the code crafter.
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 Wednesday, January 03, 1996 11:31:16 AM
From: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 #70065
>> some packages may have many subsystems fitting into a whole range from the innovative to the
now-mundane. Is such a system more or less difficult to market?
With conventional channels, we ask the customer to purchase the software and we set a price. Your
observation suggests that the advanced features won't be appreciated (or even wanted) by some
users, while the mundane features won't excite the innovator and early adopter users. The problem
here is that you're trying to sell the same software to everyone.
Now consider distributing the same software as meterware. First, you would identify the menu items
that are mundane and the menu items that are advanced. You'd call the Sally Sales (tm) API each
time a menu item is selected, and you'd specify either the authorId for mundane or the authorId for
advanced. You'd set two prices for the product, one for the mundane features and the other for the
advanced. Finally, you'd design two independent marketing programs, one targeting the late
majority and one targeting the early adopters.
With meterware, there is no limit to this. Everyone gets the software itself for free, so there's no
hassle. If you want to, you can market each and every menu item (even if there are hundreds) as a
separate product, using a separate price and a separate marketing program.
>> I know very little about [meterware]
Pick whatever product interests you, and learn enough about it to use as your "case example" as
you read Moore. Anyone who chooses the problem of "how to launch a meterware community" can
discuss the particulars with me over in the Issues section of OS2SHARE. One benefit of picking
meterware is that you'd become familiar with meterware and would be involved in actually working
on a real marketing problem rather than just talking about what someone -else- is doing.
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 Saturday, January 06, 1996 6:59:02 PM
From: Charles Stirling, 100010,1433 #70447
> I was thinking somewhat about apps that "fuse" disparate product
> elements ... things that are innovative in some way, yet
> conservative in others.
> some packages may have many subsystems fitting into a whole range
> from the innovative to the now-mundane. Is such a system more or
> less difficult to market?
Wouldn't this depend more on what the use "sees" of the product then the underlying innovativness
of parts of it? If a product is doing something really new then getting across what this is will be the
difficult part to any category of user.
If it is how something is done, such as a new interface, then two aspects seem to come into it.
1. Time, the user interested will have to have the inclination to take the time to learn it and this
may well be the innovators, early adopters who will try it to see if it does something better. Such as a
frame based word processor.
2. Offers an obvious improvement then it can quickly become a new standard and has wider
category of user appeal. Like the little help windows that pop up under a curser -- these have only
been around for a relativly few years, but are now almost a necessity.
If the inovation is behind the sceans then only the innovators, early adopters will be interested. Like
"Rushmore ?sp" in FoxPro. So, if it is in this catigory then marketing at this group needs to
emphasize this advantage, but only in the technical write ups. If it is more apparant first an
explanation of what is differant, i.e. frames, needs to be made than why it is better for particular uses.
I don't think this makes a product more difficult to market, but does need differant marketing and may
influance how quick a product is taken up. The advantages must be spelled out whatever, just in
differant ways. If it is a totally new catigory of application, like Notes, then trying to get what it actually
does must be the focus of marketing.
Charles
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066Monday, January 01, 1996 10:31:16 PM
From: Samuel G. Little, 70544,10 #69901
> Not even BG could write a PIM less user friendly than that
> disorderly pad of paper.
Oh, sure he could. The problem with pen and paper isn't so much the input interface, but the retrieval
engine. All it would take is to file Information in a way so that it isn't easily searchable, or put
everything on the same "piece of paper" and you've got the same problem.
--Sam. (Warped & using GCP 2.22)
sam_little@iacnet.com
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jerry Golick, 71175,1011 Friday, January 05, 1996 3:21:01 PM
From: Charles Stirling, 100010,1433 #70343
Jerry,
I guess I feal that "object-centric" is too programer in sound and application-centric isn't the way
forward, guess I would preferr "document - centric" as the term. Would like the administrative
functions easier to deal with than changing the battery in my watch, takes hours trying to find
someone who stocks the right one <g>.
"3)" Will agree writing one large program to do everything isn't the way, but want the objects to all be
integrated and supplied together to do this elusive everything. For instance, I've been thinking of
DeScribe and watching the posting, the list of what is wanted by various users grows almost
exponentially untill some temporary saturation point is reached then will start off again as new
possibilities (say HTML) come along. It is just difficult to predict what I will want to use next, so want
as many features as possible just in case. I do like the choice of being able to load or not a
particular feature.
I am probably wrong, but get some impression the idea with "objects" is that you would buy them
individually as a customer and it is this aspect that I suspect has me worried about the concept. As
for actually programing with object, yes. It's the marketing aspect I wonder about.
Charles
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Saturday, January 06, 1996 6:59:06 PM
From: Charles Stirling, 100010,1433 #70448
> Pads of paper -are- limited in what can be done with them. But
> they are a good example of products that do not need user's
> manuals.
This assumes a common understanding built up with familiarity. Software starts to have this when an
application can be loaded and run without the manual its just that many have not yet developed this
common understanding and must be catered for or that conventions are broaken so the "common
understanding" no longer exists. As it gets more complex of course their will be fewer and few with
this understanding.
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Charles Stirling, 100010,1433 Sunday, January 07, 1996 8:58:19 AM
From: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 #70481
>> This assumes a common understanding built up with familiarity.
Yes, pads of paper do not need a manual because they are familiar, not because they are
intrinsically simple. If I hand a pad of paper to someone who has never seen paper before, but who
has drawn charcoal paintings on cave walls, she would probably destroy it before discovering what
to do with it.
>> Software starts to have this when an application can be loaded and run without the manual
Another requirement is that the user know, before hand, that she will be able to completely -uninstall-
the product and that there will be no permanent effects on her computer. IOW, other objects will
continue to work.
Your comment makes me think that these "quality issues" can also be viewed as marketing issues,
because they erect obstacles for the customer who's attention has been attracted but who will resist
touching the product because it might burn.
IOW, we are like sellers of children's toys who display the toys sitting on hot plates. We say, "See
our pretty toys! Pick them up! They are fun to handle!". But the children have learned from
experience that some of the toys that they pick up burn their fingers. And we, behind the counter,
wonder why it is so difficult to get the children to pick up a newly displayed toy!
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:21:24 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70485
>> A sentient object has a personality. <<
IMHO there are too many anthropomorphisms in this thread. The objects that you have described,
e.g., Sally Sales, are not sentient and do not have personalities. Sentience is far more than simple
conditional logic. Contrast the behaviors of Eliza and Sally Sales.
Sentience and personality are both complex concepts involving many facets. In particular, adaption
and complexity are key components in what we consider sentience. The behavior of a 100 line C++
program is qualitatively different from that of an expert system with 20,000 rules.
Note that I am not addressing the question of whether sentience and personality are within the state
of the art; that topic belongs in another forum. But if it's possible, it will require a *lot* of code.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:22:02 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70486
What you're talking about now is the difference between two kinds of interfaces, not on whether one
exists. A good interface will be accessible but unobtrusive. I want my emergency brake lever where I
can reach it, but not jabbing into my thigh.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Herbert Ice, 72370,2501 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:22:07 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70487
ROTF,LMAO! Yes, that is what he would do.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:22:15 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70488
>> I can't decode this! <<
VI is the editor that everyone loves to hate. It is notorious for its user-hostile interface, but it is popular
because whatever EUnix <g> system you are on, you can count on its being available.
>> This is a complaint about what you can do with a pad of paper. It is not a complaint about how
easy it is to master the usage of a pad of paper. <<
Sorry, but I can and do do those things with a pad of paper; it's just not easy.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Des Dougan, 100553,2152 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:22:21 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70489
>> Happy new year to all OS/2 users, vendors and journalists. (God, that last bit was hard..). <<
The only hard part of say HNY to journalist is finding them; most of the people calling themselves
journalists are just hacks. Fortunately we have some of the real thing in these fora, but I wouldn't want
to give them swelled heads by singling them out.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066Sunday, January 07, 1996 12:39:07 PM
From: Esther Schindler [EXEC], 72241,1417#70498
> most of the people calling themselves journalists are just hacks.
Sorry, I disagree vehemently. I know entirely too many professional and intelligent computer industry
writers of integrity to let that generalization pass unchallenged.
You can _always_ find bozos, in any profession. But you don't hate all doctors because you
encountered one or two bad ones. You just hate the bad ones (and your disdain ain't _nothin'_
compared to the ill will directed at those bad practitioners by their peers).
--Esther, defending her friends/cohort Rebecca, Judith, Jeff, Lisa, Steven, Stephen, JD, Dennis... and
a cast of thousands
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066Sunday, January 07, 1996 5:59:19 PM
From: Des Dougan, 100553,2152 #70550
Shmuel,
>> Fortunately we have some of the real thing in these fora, but I wouldn't
want to give them swelled heads by singling them out. <<
It's obvious that the _real_ journalists in this forum are too professional, modest and classy to be
affected by ego <bg>!
Des Dougan at 14:54:27 PT 07-Jan-96
Subj: framing the problem Section: Marketing OS/2 Apps
To: Jon Duringer[IdeaFa, 71732,3361 Sunday, January 07, 1996 10:22:27 AM
From: Shmuel Metz (Atid/2), 71054,3066#70490
>> No one submits a requisition. No one issues a PO. <<
You've just brought out a problem with the meterware concept; it interferes with management's ability
to audit and budget software expenditures. The auditors will eat your lunch if you don't find a way to
keep them happy.
>> The meterware market will be characterized by zero resistance to sales, because there is no
longer a sale. <<
You may not chose to consider it a sale, but you have to convince the user to download and install
the software before you can get him to use it. If you prefer to call it acquisition resistance, fine, but IAC
it has the same practical effect as sales resistance.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg & JOAT, Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I