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Issue #279
January 21, 1993
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To post: Subscriptions, deletions, requests:
bass@uwplatt.edu bass-request@uwplatt.edu
(Bitnet: bass@uwplatt.bitnet) (Bitnet: bass-request@uwplatt.bitnet)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today's topics:
Underrated Bassists, Entwistle and the Stones?????
Misc Stuff
Unsung bassists; Eden *AMPS*?
RE: Letter to the All-Knowing Compressor/Limiter Guru
Underrated bassists
RE: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu╣s Guild Truss Rod; Misc.
Ramblings
Zon, Steinberger, Boomers
misc. rambling
What is "punch"?
Underrattedness
Fretless Questions
The Cryptids at the Knitting Factory
RE: The Bottom Line #278
Intro and Questions
Slave
----------------------------------------------------------
Administrative notes:
Yep, it's happened -- I've fallen behind again. Expect another
issue with the same number of posts to directly follow this one.
I've gotten a couple of messages asking about the t-shirt graphic
located at the ftp site. The file appears to be corrupt (at least
as a .gif graphic). Stay tuned for updates.
We're still in the process of collecting survey responses for our
user database. If you have had the survey sent to you (or received
it as part of the intro file for new subscribers) and haven't returned
it yet, please consider doing so. The more responses we get, the
better and more accurate the database becomes.
All for now,
Kevin
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 08:45:49 EST
From: arte@inmet.camb.inmet.com
Subject: Underrated Bassists, Entwistle and the Stones?????
My favorite heavy rock guy was the guy from Bad Company (I think his name
is Boz Burrell). Really great grooves for an arena-rock band (some of the
stuff could even be classified as funky (definite Jamerson disciple)).
Bob Wasserman from Lou Reed's band (as of the New York record) was incredible
at the Orpheum in Boston when I saw him on the New York tour. I think he is
starting to get some recognition nowadays, though, so he might not exactly
fit into the "category."
I always liked Tom Hamilton from Aerosmith (based on the first four records).
Of course, the reason he never got any recognition is that Aerosmith was
always dismissed as a cheap Stones ripoff. Of course, now all the glam-metal
bands are siting Aerosmith as a major influence, so maybe Hamilton will get
a little recognition.
No one ever mentions Geezer Butler's great, albeit over-the-top, playing for
Sabbath, either. Another great band that has influenced more people than the
critics would like to admit.
I read in someone's post about John Entwistle joining the Stones. Geez, I
dunno. He'd have to take an awful lot of valiums to keep from blowing Charlie
right off the stage. Of course, the last few Who records will probably help
him in this regard. He definitely has the same stage mannerisms. Maybe they'll
let him sing instead of Keith. I think the Stones should find a good groove
player, instead of someone as bombastic as Entwistle (and I mean that in the
most reverent way, because he's one of my all-time favorites).
-- Arte Kenyon
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 08:51
From: TYOUNG.GATEWAY@cssm004.StPaul.NCR.COM
Subject: Misc Stuff
Underrated bass players:
At one time I would have said Kasim Sultan(sp?). Although now that he's
left Todd Rundgrens band I'm not too impressed.
Another bassist I've always liked was Lou Reed's player on the
"Rock-n-Roll Animal" album. (name escapes me). The solo on the song
"Rock-n-Roll" has always inspired me.
Secondly, I went into the sheet music store to buy a bass book the other
day. There was about 30-40 titles. Some with little floppy records, some
with tapes and some with Cd's. Some has nothing. I was totally
overwhelmed. There has been numerous discussions regarding tapes,
but I don't recall any discussion about books.
I would like coverage of some riffs, useful scales and their application,
hints on melody and maybe soloing techniques. I'm not a beginner,
(I play in a bar/cover band) but I feel as though my playing has leveled
out and am looking for some spark.
Any suggestions people ???
Todd Young
Todd.Young@StPaul.NCR.Com
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 10:23:53 -0500
From: mjkobb@media.mit.edu
Subject: Unsung bassists; Eden *AMPS*?
Greetings!
Is anybody compiling a list of these unsung bass folks? I'd like
to have the list, but I'd rather not keep ten digests around and
have to dig through 'em. I'd also second the vote for John Deacon.
Most of his lines aren't flashy, but they sound great, and really
fit the songs. I can't help getting depressed when I listen to
Queen now, though. Poor Freddie. What a loss!
Now, still another amp question (sorry!). I recently discovered
that Eden (makers of great bass cabs) also make bass amps! I've
sent off for literature, but I'd be interested in hearing from
anybody who's using one of them, or who has tried one.
While I'm on the subject, anybody got a TubeWorks amp, or a Walter
Woods? Opinions? Right now, the SM-400 (SWR) is leading the pack
in my hunt, but I'm still open.
Thanks,
--Mike
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 10:57:45 EST
From: bobdavis@viewlogic.com
Subject: RE: Letter to the All-Knowing Compressor/Limiter Guru
> I guess one of your servants (me that is) is in need of a
> compressor/limiter. What I want is just to suppress real peaks and
> want as little as comp./lim. action as possible during 'normal' playing,
> so I guess I need a limiter (or a compressor) with a high adjusted
> threshold.
> Do You have experience with and do You like the Boss CL-50 ?
> Other recommendable devices that You know of ?
>
> Related question: when You use a compressor during 'normal' playing,
> what are the differences/improvements compared to not using one ?
> In other words: what are the possibilities with a comp./limiter other
> than just to protect Your mighty speakers and prevent clipping ?
> Please, All-Powerful Person, tell us something about using these
> widely used (and imHo little understood) devices also as effect
> (and not just as 'protection') !
The best idea for compressor limiters is to avoid pedals, and get a
good quality line level device. Some compressors in bass gear a good,
but most aren't really. Pedals tend to be cheaply made and have more
noise problems since they're at instrument level. I'm not saying they
don't work at all, they're just not as good an idea in general.
For decent flexibility, you'll need a threshold control, and a rate
control. Many bass preamps/heads lack this for some reason. This
will allow you to tune in the kind of compression you desire. What
your talking about above is a good idea for subtle compression except
on highest peaks. Try setting the threshold so compression occurs
only at the times you want, then, starting with lowest rate, increase
until you have the amount of compression you like.
Some good bets in used compressor/limiters are dbx 163's, symmetrix,
rane and ashly stuff, etc. Discounted, the 163 is around $150-180
new. This is a mono unit for one-channel, and is well suited to use
with bass. Lotsa folks have em in their racks.
have fun.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 11:24:32 -0600 (CST)
From: derek@wubios.wustl.edu
Subject: Underrated bassists
Geez, where do I start? Ron Baker, Philadelphia session ace (played on almost
_EVERYTHING_ that came out of Sigma Sound studios in the 70's. Donald "Duck"
Dunn - I know he's _famous_ for being a bass player at STAX and has been in a
couple of movies, but I still think most people don't really understand how
good he is. Johnny B. Gayden, house bassist for Alligator Records, and
Icebreaker (Albert Collins) Finally, my biggest influence, Gus Thornton, who
played with Albert King in the early/mid 80's. He also kept asking me to come
sit in on his bass no matter how bad I sounded the week before at the jam
session...
Obviously, I'm into Blues, R&B and boring 4-string bass lines with no effects
8-)
Sleepy
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 09:31:42 PST
From: Graham_McClelland.Sthq@xerox.com
Subject: RE: nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu╣s Guild Truss Rod; Misc. Ramblings
Happy New Year Everyone!
I meant to respond to this when the original question was posted but got side
tracked I guess. The older Guild bass truss rods are only adjustable with a
nut driver (looks like a screw driver but with a socket wrench fitting on the
end). Using a nut driver is the only way to reach into the little hole and
turn the nut that applys tension to the truss rod. This is my experience with
older Guilds like the B-301's and B-302's, but may or may not be the case with
the newer models. Nut driver sets are readily available from any hardware
store or, even better, go for the Sear's Craftsman!!! (Arh, Arh, Arh!) I hope
this helps.
To add to the string on under rated bass players - I lost my entire album
collection in a flood several years ago so I can't pull out any old stuff and
re-listen to it unfortunately. However, I remember when I first started
playing back in the 70's that Gene Simmon's bass lines used to "walk" quite a
bit (yes I was a Kiss fan up until about 1977 - blush). Some of the lines on
the first "Alive " album showed alot of imagination, or at least that`s how I
remember it. Since I haven't heard any of that stuff in about 12 years I could
definitely be off base here (ya'll will let me know I'm sure!).
The original bass player from Tower Of Power (name? - there goes my memory
again) might also be considered under rated in some circles. Probably not by
other bass players or the members of this list, but by the general listening
audience.
[ You're talking about Rocco Prestia, right? Bass Mgr. ]
I know I'm late with this but are any of you familiar with the holiday song by
the Waitresses titled "Christmas Rapping"? The bass line from that song gets
me every time I hear it! Very catchy! Does anyone know whose tracks those
are? I remember seeing the video for it years ago, but the girl "playing" bass
seemed to be using it more like a prop. Any ideas...?
Well, I'm outta here...
Graham
graham.sthq@xerox.com
P.S. - Kevin, any new material available from Greg Koch and the boyz?
[ They're in the studio putting together a new CD as I type. I'll let you
know when I have more information. By the way, they did finally get a
permanent (and gifted) keyboard player by the name of Sam Stefke. Really
rounds out the band's sound, and provides for a new solo voice. Bass Mgr. ]
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 09:12:33 PST
From: mikes@sol.metaware.com
Subject: Zon, Steinberger, Boomers
Three questions have I...
1. I just bought a Zon Legacy V from (of all people) some folks at Bass Player
Magazine. It was kinda
strange sitting in the GPI testing room checking out a Bass... Oh yes the
question... does anyone
know how the neck is joined to the body on the Zon Legacy? Does it go all
the way through the body?
Or is it just glued-in partway down?
2. Someone is offering me a Steinberger w/case, strap, and nut modification
(for normal strings) for $600.
A snag? Leave it? It seems old, but in good shape.
3. I just bought a new set of GHS strings for my (ack!) Fender Squier V
string. The E and D strings now
cause a rattle that I can't find. I swapped bridge saddles with
non-rattling strings to no avail.
Also suspect was the recently homemade steel nut, which I rulled out when
the rattle continued on
a fretted string. Could it be the strings themselves? Anyone ever bought
a noisy set of boomers?
4. What is the velocity....
==Michael Stebbins
[ Please be careful about line size; it should be <= 80 characters.
Thanks, Bass Mgr. ]
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 11:59:45 CST
From: grahams@uwwvax.uww.edu
Subject: misc. rambling
In TBL277 Oz writes,
>YOW! No wonder bassists are usually the brainy, more introspective one in the
>band. We gotta know what everyone else is doing all the time! This, IMHO, is
>why I don't learn the lyrics, because I'm so !@#$%^ busy LISTENING and
>anticipating *what*comes*next!
>Comments?
How cosmic! I was thinking along similar lines not too long ago myself.
It occured to me that it's almost always the bass player who knows the most
music theory. Bass players also seem to have the most eclectic interest
in music in general. Keyboard players and singers, in my experience, tend
to be the most oblivious to everyone else. Perhaps it has something to do
with trying to play both clefs at the same time, but I've never played with
a piano player who did not think the rest of the group is supposed to follow
them. Everyone knows what guitar players are like so I won't comment on
them. ;> (I'm a guitar player myself so I can say anything I like, right?)
Anyway, all this is IMHO so don't take it too serious.
[ I would have thought the keyboard player to be most theory-knowledgable,
just from having to deal with the full chords constantly. Oh well, just
a thought. Bass Mgr. ]
On the subject of under-rated/unknown bassists, the guy in Extreme sounds
pretty interesting on their latest release (Three Sides to Every Story).
Check out the track "Cupid's Dead" for some pretty cool bass/guitar unison
stuff. The whole three sided album thing is pretty interesting in concept
(at least to this over-introspective type) and ranges in content from hard
core head banging to full orchestration. The lyrics are rather thought
provoking as well. I think the bass player's name is Pat Badger. Nuno
gets all the press so the rest get overlooked. I should probably add that
I was not an Extreme fan prior to hearing "Three Sides..." and had dismissed
them as just another metal band. Glad I kept an open mind and heard them
out.
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 10:14:08 PST
From: Preston Carter <carter@hpdmsbja.pa.itc.hp.com>
Subject: What is "punch"?
One of the most frequently used words in bass-related discussions and
advertisements is "punch". Example: Brand-X's bass/amp/strings has
lots of "punch". Peavy uses the word "Punch" as the label of one of
the five or six tone-control knobs. Or check this excerpt from
TBL#278:
| ...The 4x10 cabinet is the ultimate bass cabinet. They
| produce as much or more low end then 15's yet have so much more punch.
Just what the heck does "punch" mean?
-------------------------------
| Preston Carter
| carter@hpdmsbja.pa.itc.hp.com
-------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 15:49:35 CST
From: smithm@stolaf.edu
Subject: Underrattedness
Howdy all,
I have 2 bassists in mind who need to be looked at more closely.
Mike Watts : fIREHOSE. This man plays an ancient hollow-body Gibson bass and
gets the most amazing sound out of it. He also plays through a
homemade amp that a friend of mine claims puts out around 800 watts.
I'm not sure about this, but I know his sound is amazing. If you
haven't heard any, check this guy out.
I forget the guy's name, but the bass player for 24-7 Spyz. He switches from
simply holding the root, to flying off the handle with slapping, to
back at the root again. This band has one of the BEST grooves in the
music biz today, so have a listen. "Jungle Boogie" off of Harder Than
You is a definite must-hear.
Anyway, that`s my $.02 worth. Have fun all
Matt Smith
smithm@stolaf.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 15:46:31 PST
From: Alan.Henley@EBay.Sun.COM
Subject: Fretless Questions
Hello fellow TBLians:
Lately I've had a desire to start playing a fretless on some tunes. (I don't
know why. It must be something in the water.) Since I don't have a fretless,
my choices are to buy one, or convert one of my basses to fretless. As such,
I have a few questions for all you fretless players out there.
Right now, I know of only two brands of after-market necks, Chandler, and
Warmouth. The price difference is huge. By the time I get done adding lines
and a finish to the Warmouth, it's twice as much as the Chandler ($400 vs $200).
However, I've only played the Chandler. My questions are:
* Does anyone out there use a Warmouth fretless neck and what do
you think of it? Same question for any Chandler users.
* Does anyone know of other after-market necks? There must be
something in the middle.
One other question. As I've been sampling different fretless', I've noticed
that sometimes the fretboard is flat, and sometimes the fretboard is rounded
a bit like an upright bass. What's the reason for this? Are there advantages
one way or the other?
I'm kinda hot to do this soon (you know how it is once you've decided to do
something), so any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Alan Henley
[ Al- I got and installed a Warmouth neck on my P-bass over Christmas. First
off, I'm not sure who you're getting it from, but the dealer cost on a
maple neck, ebony board (fretless, lines or not) is around $170. My dealer
tacked on about $25 markup, plus $50 to finish the thing. Total = $240
(sans tax). The neck is very well made and really added to the sound of
the instrument on open notes (vs. the fretless growl), which seems to
indicate a much better neck that what was on it originally. I've found that
I get more of that growl the lower the action, so it's only high enough
to eliminate some nasty rattles near the nut. I'm really happy with the
thing, and immediately learned (but really can't play up to speed) Jaco's
"Portrait of Tracy." I haven't checked out the Chandler, due to its
unavailablity through the local shop. I do know, however, that Fender doesn't
offer necks like what I wanted (fretless unlined) except through the custom
shop.
There were some minor installation problems-- the tuner holes had to be
bored a little wider halfway through the headstock, and the nut slot had to
be widened for the nut I had (easier for me to do that with a saw than file
the nut down). Not as bad as I had feared, actually.
Hope this lengthy bit helps. Feel free to mail me with questions,
Bass Mgr. ]
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 23:05:58 EST
From: sleuth@mindvox.phantom.com
Subject: The Cryptids at the Knitting Factory
Hi TBLers!
I posted this info to usenet also, but I figured I'd make this special
pointer to the Bottom Line as well.
I'm playing at the Knitting Factory in NYC (47 E. Houston St.) on Sunday
the 24th of January with a trio called the Cryptids (me on fretless,
Elliott Sharp on guitar and sax, and a drummer named David Gould.)
We're doing two sets at 9pm and 11pm. I'm pretty excited about this one
y'all, and I'd love to meet you NYC TBL'ers.
Hope to see you there.
===========================================================
| Reuben Radding.............sleuth@mindvox.phantom.com |
|............po box 1270 new york, new york 10276........ |
===========================================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 14:31:19 -0500
From: affouj@rpi.edu
Subject: RE: The Bottom Line #278
someone had asked where the name duran-duran came from - as I'm sure you'll
remember it's from the movie "Barbarella" with Jane Fonda in it...
On a more bass-related note, I was wondering what people could tell me about
theHipshot ? Effectiveness, installation ease (Fender P), etc... ? Thanks in
advance...
J.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Internet - affouj@rpi.edu "When a man lies, he murders some part |
| Bitnet - userHAF7@rpitsmts.bitnet of the world. These are the pale deaths|
| Belushi reincarnate which men miscall their lives..." |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 23:57:00 -0600
From: Wayne Wooten <wayne@ennex1.eng.utsa.edu>
Subject: Intro and Questions
Hi, my name is Wayne Wooten (no relation :-( ), and even though I've been
reading TBL for about a year, this is my first post, so I'll do the Intro
thing: I'm in the Air Force and I started playing bass in 1978 when my
roommate needed a bass player. I started off with a new (at
the time) Peavy T-40 and Peavy Century 100 Amp and 1-15 Cab. The amp is long
gone, but I still have the Peavy T-40, a nice, basic all-around bass. I once
had an Aria Pro-II fretless (serial # 0001) which I bought in Japan new in
1981 for about $200 and sold along with the Peavy amp in 1986 for $800 (I've
never been accused of being bright). My amplification now is
just a Fender Sidekick Bass. Last fall I bought a used Rick 4001S for $450
(a good deal?). It was like new even though it is a mid-80's model. My
influences are primarily Geddy Lee and Leland Sklar, and I'm getting to like
Les Claypool a lot. Now on to a couple of questions:
1. In May the Air Force is giving me an all-expenses paid trip for a year
to a small (11 sq mi) Aleutian island named Shemya. There will
be plenty of practice time and the opportunity to play with the other
vacationers. I need a new amp and would like opinions on the Peavy Combo
300. A local music store has them for about $385. Is this a good deal?
2. I would like to buy another bass, and so far like the Ibanez Soundgear
series. I like the 950, but does anyone have any experiences with it or
with the 800?
Wayne Wooten
San Antonio, Texas
wayne@ennex1.eng.utsa.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 93 14:33:55 PST
From: francis@Csli.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Slave
> Other underrated bass players closer to home: If you're into the
>70's funk thing, definitely check out Pleasure, Brick, Slave, & Steve
>Arrington. Check out "Foxy Lady" by Pleasure, "Weak at the Knees" by Steve
>Arrington, "Slide" by Slave, & the Brick album where the guy is smoking
>a cigar on the cover (sorry to be so vauge on this one... I can't remember
>the titles offhand). All of these tracks/albums feature some really
>serious bass & bass/drum grooves. The best thing is that you can pick
>up most of these albums for about a dollar!
Ken, I can't seem to get to you at odin.icd.ab.com; do you have an
address? Anyway, I am interested in acquiring Slave and other 70's
funk stuff but I haven't been able to find sh*t here in the SF Bay Area.
Would it be too much too ask for you to help out a Slave starved
bassist? I'll pay any associated costs of course, and try to somehow
make it worth your while; maybe send you some live bootlegs with
some awesome bass playing on it or something.
Anyone else out there have any Slave albums I could get copies of?
jones-ing for Slave,
Dave
----------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous ftp access for back issues, etc.:
kappa.rice.edu (128.42.4.7) in the /pub/bass directory
(Username is 'anonymous', password is your e-mail address.
Try typing 'help' for more info once logged in.)
_The Bottom Line_ is a digest dedicated to the art of playing
electric and acoustic bass. It is distributed on a basis that
coincides with the amount of material received, from the
University of Wisconsin - Platteville, USA;
Kevin Tipple, Erik Habbinga, editors
Copyright _The Bottom Line_, 1992
The contents of _The Bottom Line_ are solely the opinions
and comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the authors' managements or the digest
management. The editors do not assume responsibility for
copyright infringement of submitted material.
***************************
End of The Bottom Line #279
***************************