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1994-08-01
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Path: wupost!tulane!ames!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eff!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!mvb.saic.com!bethel.connected.com!beauty!rwing!pat
From: pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto)
Newsgroups: alt.sources,comp.dcom.modems,comp.protocols.misc
Subject: Re: Other Unix Zmodems (was Re: zmtx/zmrx, plagiarized zmodem implementation)
Message-ID: <3641@rwing.UUCP>
Date: 30 Jul 94 14:16:08 GMT
References: <1994Jul27.101406.14692@omen.UUCP> <3639@rwing.UUCP> <1994Jul29.080821.20954@omen.UUCP>
Organization: Totally Unorganized
Lines: 143
Xref: wupost alt.sources:11067 comp.dcom.modems:65356 comp.protocols.misc:3513
In article <1994Jul29.080821.20954@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:
/In article <3639@rwing.UUCP> pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes:
/>>>It also has the advantage that at least one *working* implementation exists
/>>>for originating calls on Unix machines.
/>>
/>>Oh what words come from the keyboards of babes!
/>>
/>>Professional-YAM and a number of other packages supporting ZMODEM have
/>>been available for Unix for years.
/>
/>I believe the difference is that one is free, easily available (kermit),
/
/"it is not in the public domain either, and never has been. It is not
/"shareware". It is not "freeware". It is copyright by Columbia University."
/ Kermit News July 1993 Page 1
/
/>the other, while nice as an xfer protocol, has a license that effectively
/>makes it unusable unless you want to shell out a lot of $$$. Things
/>like defining 'commercial use' as someone downloading a file from a host
/>that happens to charge a fee for accounts is just a ploy for saying
/>"you can't use zmodem for anything but sending to yourself" (even though
/>the protocol is supposed to be public domain), and trying to prevent
/>useful versions from being written by nitpicking on the code...
/
/Oh what words still come from the keyboards of babes!
Ad hominums don't butress your arguments.
/There is no charge for Unix rz/sz when it is used to support
/DSZ, GSZ, ZCOMM, Professional-YAM or PowerCom. If Datastorm or
/Crosstalk customers wish to send files to/from Unix without
/using DSZ or a slow Kermit then rz/sz can be registered for the
/Unix machine at a fraction of the unit cost of Procomm.
Yeh. If you don't connect with a professional service, or download
files from/to it, or choose to limit your comm packages to either Pro-YAM
or such.
/>Another problem: Pro-YAM is available as BINARY ONLY (unless things
/>have changed), and was never available for my first platform years ago,
/
/Professional-YAM has been available under a $400 source license since
/1989.
Funny. I asked around that time and got no response - I was trying to
get a version I could get up on an ATT 7300. First I was told it
was not available, then I was not given any responses on future queries.
I recall a post some years ago asking if there would be an interest in
such releases, I responded hell, yes, if the price was reasonable. It
got not so much as an acknowlegement. So you will understand why I
1) was unaware of such release
2) decided to not bother continued attempts at contact with Omen, which
seemed to not care to even answer e-mail.
I figure that has cost you many hundreds of bucks in lost business,
not to mention good will. As a result, interest in Pro-YAM has faded
a lot, and more recent restrictions/crippling of rz/sz has re-enforced
this.
/>even though requests were sent, which were unanswered. This creates an
/>unwanted problem for a lot of people (Omen doesn't have quite the stake
/>that, say, Sun has in ensuring no 'unfriendly' code is present, so them
/>and Sun selling binary only aint the same thing), and carries a lot of
/>unnecessary baggage for situations where one only wishes to use some
/>other comm program besides Pro-YAM, or only wants to use the rz/sz part.
/
/Translation: I've already paid money to Datastorm or Crosstalk, and I
/don't feel like paying for rz/sz just to get some use out of my Procomm.
Bullshit. I used to be a registered user of zcomm, which I still have, but
don't use anymore because it is a DOS program, and I quit using dos years
ago.
Trhanslation right back: You cant give a good answer to the above (where
did I say I was even using DOS in the prior post?) so you decide to lay
a smoke screen... Only platforms I have mentioned were unix platforms
(UNIX PC and Sun). Since when does Datastorm procomm run on unix,
please? And where did I say I used that proeuct? You are trying to
attribute things to me that are not true. That is not nice.
And it is possible SOME folks that use DOS might prefer the interface
of procomm (or Pcomm) to Pro-YAM... What good is a hi-performance comm
package if it is beyond the average user to set up properly (if it is
anything like ZCOMM, I have yet to see an average dos user that can set
it up properly to get it to work right).
/>Pro-YAM is kinda big to load just to get zmodem. Be much better to have
/>a full-featured zmodem, WITH SOURCE, available for a reasonable price,
/>not 3 figures to just get a file xfer protocol. Face it, many users
/>are casual users and don't want to fight with a phone.t file to add
/>another site to dial, and much usage doesn't use the comm portion at all.
/
/They can register DSZ and use rz/sz for free. Most of the people reading
/this post can easily afford the $20.00 to register DSZ.
Since when is dsz available for unix platforms, please? The stock answer
to unix users has been 'ya wanna use full featured zmodem under unix,
get Pro-YAM and invoke it as sz or rz... have this big ... thing ... on
disk just to have fully functional zmodem. feh.
The smoke to dodge the point is not appealing.
/>Make source available, and without charging 3 arms and a leg, and you
/>will probably have more takers. That is what turned me off - absence
/>of source, and this big ... thing ... many times the size of an older
/>rzsz, just to get zmodem for one's preferred comm program that is
/>available for FREE, and with source. Also, the newer versions of rzsz
/>are deliberately crippled to deny that use, presumably to force people
/>to buy the 80 percent of unwanted baggage in Pro-YAM, *WITHOUT* source,
/>just to get zmodem). The real effect is to force one to purchase a
/>binary-only version of a comm program one does not want, just to get a
/>zmodem that will work with one's EXISTING (and preferred) comm program.
/
/How many source code versions of Bimodem have we seen?
Who uses it (on unix, at least, where source is really necessary)?
/How many source code versions of Blast have we seen?
WHo uses it (on unix, at least)?
/How many source code versions of Dart have we seen?
Never even heard of it. Nobody I connect with has it.
/When was the last high performance public domain Kermit released?
When was the last public domain fully functional zmodem released?
When was the last time someone tried to surpress release of any
fully functional zmodem from a source other than Omen?
/Maybe it's because they've seen the reception I got.
Maybe, but not likely. The reception you got is due to anal-retentive
policies, IMO.
--
pat@rwing [If all fails, try: rwing!pat@eskimo.com] Pat Myrto - Seattle WA
"No one has the right to destroy another person's belief by demanding
empirical evidence." -- Ann Landers, nationally syndicated advice columnist
and Director at Handgun Control Inc.