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rps-minutes-95jul.txt
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CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_
Reported by Susan Hares/Merit
Minutes of the Routing Policy System Working Group (RPS)
Agenda
o Logistics
o Status on IRR (Daniel Karrenberg)
o AS path expressions extensions to RIPE-181 (Cengiz Alaettinoglu)
o Database distribution (Daniel Karrenberg)
o RPSL policy term (Cengiz Alaettinoglu)
o Dictionary object (Craig Labovitz)
o RPSL syntax alternatives (Cengiz Alaettinoglu)
o Review of work plan until next meeting
All agenda topics were covered on Tuesday, 18 July, except database
distribution which was covered on Wednesday, 19 July. Items are
reported in order of the agenda instead of chronological order.
Status Reports
The following reports were given:
o RA (Brian Renaud)
The RA continues to cleanup the RADB from the PRDB to RADB changes.
20,000 networks have network prefixes more specific than other
prefixes. The RA wants to cleanup these prefixes or mark them as
withdrawn.
Interactions with CA*NET and InternetMCI RRDB are in progress.
o RIPE NCC (Daniel Karrenberg)
Registry based in Europe. Most AS or upstream providers have put
in AS maintainer objects. Consistency checking with other
registries is part of the on-going work.
Reports were not given for CA*NET and InternetMCI.
Randy Bush asked why register in two databases? Brian Renaud stated
that it is not needed at this time and MCI agrees.
AS Path Expressions
(See Cengiz's slides. All slides are available at
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/rps/stockholm-ietf.)
The focus of Cengiz's information is to allow an extended AS path syntax
that allows extended AS path syntax and current syntax to work with
existing tools and new tools. If both the old and the new syntax are
used, the policy should be roughly the same. It was noted that the
policy expressed might not be exactly the same.
Tony Bates suggested using AS macros in AS path expressions and the
group agreed to this. Tony and Andrew Partan noted that the AS macro
expansion should expand to either the old syntax for AS path expansions
or the new syntax.
This new syntax has been added to RA tools. Other tool builders (e.g.,
Tony Bates of MCI and Marten Terpstra of Bay Networks) indicated their
interest in these extended as path expressions.
Any further expansion should be made with RPSL.
Database Distribution
Daniel Karrenberg presented the paper drafted by David Kessens and
Cengiz Alaettinoglu.
The problem with database distribution is that the distribution has n**2
problem with the number of registries that need to be updated. The
granularity of current updates is 1/24 hours as files are FTPed from
site to site. User interfaces may not be the same across registries.
Daniel Karrenberg proposed:
o Updating to authoritative registry
The receiving registry would forward the update request to the
authoritative registry for the object. If the authoritative
registry is unknown, it would be bounced.
o Updates will be split apart from a full database dump
Each update will contain (for adds/deletes) time stamp, sequence
number, and registry name. Each update will be checksummed with
MD5.
o Full database fetched (FTP)
Each full database has time stamp and sequence number of the last
update processed. The full database pull will be checksummed
(MD5?) to ensure the data is correct.
o Journal files will contain updates
Each journal file will contain updates that can be applied after
the last full database pull. Each journal updates will contain
time stamp, sequence number and registry.
o Asynchronous updates should be possible to send to users
This service will be subscribed to. Subscribers will receive (via
e-mail or other transport) the updates listed above as they occur.
The group discussed how to get consistency working across databases.
The focus was using maintainer objects which specified priority of
registries. Tony Bates and Marten Terpstra noted that multiple
maintainer objects can exist for routing objects. Since the frequence
of new maintainer objects is low, time stamps and human interaction can
be used in the 4 databases to resolve differences.
The group recommended that the history of the databases needed to be two
full copies backward plus associated journal files.
Bill Manning and Paul Vixie discussed using the DNS as a Routing
Registry. Weakness in DNS was: bootstrapping problem (Michael Patton),
indexing and problems with the tools for consistency checking.
Strengths of DNS are its hierarchical nature and the methods by which it
delegates to others.
Those who wish to experiment may. If databases grow, within two years
we may need a hierarchical solution. Bill will find an RA draftee to
experiment with a DNS based routing registry idea.
Holing punches in CIDR blocks has been addressed by RIPE-127. The
current code does support this. Daniel volunteered to publish this fact
to the list.
RPSL Policy Term
(See Cengiz Alaettinoglu's slides for full a description.)
RPSL policy terms have an event name, a filter, event parameters, and
actions. The split of event name, filter and actions is for efficiency
of processing. Five options were discussed for the interaction of
different policy terms. Consensus was to go with one of the two
options: specification order or a combination with the overrides rule.
The combination would use the overrides rule within a policy terms and
specification order between policy terms in the database.
It was asked why this discussion is occurring and suggested that the
group concentrate on getting the tools working with simple policy.
Cengiz responded that for simple cases, policy is simple. For more
complicated cases, it will aid. However, it appears that documents
indicating the application will be needed for the working group.
Dictionary Object
(See Craig Labovitz's slides.)
The dictionary provides extensibility to the language. The dictionary
would contain current descriptions plus reference implementation. The
documents would contain syntax description plus a place to point to for
reference implementations.
New changes to the RPSL would include shared libraries or perl code that
could be loaded.
Andrew Partan and others wondered that the Dictionary seemed two steps
ahead of the current technology. He was more interested in seeing more
tools with current things.
RPSL Syntax Alternatives
Should the RIPE-181 syntax be extended or replaced by a new syntax? In
the extended RIPE-181 syntax, interas-in and interas-out syntax is
replaced by an extended as-in and as-out syntax.
If a completely new syntax is used, programs would just read in the new
syntax elegantly. If the RIPE syntax is extended, tools using it will
have to be compatible with the old syntax using hacks.
Tony Bates thought it would be good to have both new syntax for the
as-in and as-out plus get rid of the interas-in. At the time it was
created it was thought that the separation of local and global policy
was important.
Review of Work Plan Until Next Meeting
Items to do for the next meeting:
o Daniel Karrenberg will write a registry object definition paper.
o Daniel will write a document outlining his proposed approach on
coordinating databases.
o Cengiz and David Kessens will write a document on the consistency
model that gets rid of the source attribute and uses the
authoritative registry idea based on the maintainer object. There
was consensus to go with this approach rather than the multiple
sources approach.
o Daniel will announce the non-hole punching option in CIDR block to
the list. (The status field now has a PI/PA function.)
o Daniel and Marten Terpstra will examine all RIPE documents and
publish what changes needed to be done to them. The working group
will then begin to re-write the RIPE documents as RPS documents.
This change is subject to RIPE DB Working Group and the Area
Director's approval
o RPSL Language
Cengiz, Craig Labovitz and Marten Terpstra and other Routing
Registry people will continue work on this and report back at the
next IETF.