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1996-06-03
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CURRENT MEETING REPORT
Reported by Bob Hinden, Ipsilon
Minutes of the IP: Next Generation Working Group
Agenda
Bash Agenda
Status of Base set of Docs
Status of WG Last Called Docs
Changes in IPv6 and ICMP Specs
Status of other IPv6-over-Foo Docs
Token Ring
FDDI
PPP
ATM
other
Multi-Homed Hosts
Unique link-local address
other issues
PMTU Discovery
Tunneling specification
Anycast usage by Hosts
API Specification
ICMP Echo Response Truncation
What Pieces are Left?
FTP
Header compression
Multicast (son of RFC1112
Multihoming
Routing Protocols
MIBs (many?)
Service Location Protocol
IPng Area Conclusion
Status of 6-Bone / Testing & Deployment
Status of Implementations
Introduction
Steve Deering introduced meeting. He reviewed the agenda and asked for
additional topics to be added to agenda.
Status of Base set of Docs
Bob Hinden reviewed status of the base documents. The following
documents were approved by the IESG and as of last week are at the RFC
editor waiting for publication as RFC's:
Proposed Standard
"Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification"
"IP Version 6 Addressing Architecture"
"DNS Extensions to support IP version 6"
"Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMPv6) for the Internet
Protocol Version 6 (IPv6) Specification"
Informational RFC
"An Architecture for IPv6 Unicast Address Allocation"
After the meeting the RFC Editor indicated he expects to release these
documents as RFC's by the end of the year.
The following documents were previously recommended by the working group
to be published as RFC with the indicated status:
Proposed Standard
"An IPv6 Provider-Based Unicast Address Format"
Experimental
"IPv6 Testing Address Allocation"
The IESG did not approve these documents. The IPng w.g. chairs have
written and sent (with a cc: to the IPng w.g.) a response to the IESG
comments. The reply responds to the issues raised by the IESG which the
chairs believe represents a misunderstanding with the motivation behind
the design choices. The IPng working group chairs believe that these
document should go forward.
Status of WG Last Called Docs
The following documents have completed working group last call:
"A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets over Ethernet Networks
"Neighbor Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)"
There were no comments received during the last call or at the meeting.
The chairs will forward these documents to the IPng Area Directors with a
recommendations that they become Proposed Standards.
Changes in IPv6 and ICMP Specs
Steve Deering summarized the editorial changes and protocol changes
agreed to by the working group at the Stockholm IETF meeting which made
to these documents as part of submitting them to the RFC editor.
IPv6
1) Headers and options must be processed in order, not in the order
picked by receiver. Important to preserve semantics specified by sender
and to make it easier to add new kinds of headers and options in the
future. There are security issues in how headers/options are processed,
but options must still be processed in order.
2) Description of jumbo payload options made clearer. Length includes
length of header and all options.
3) Routing header changed to allow final destination to skip the routing
header if it does not know about a new type of routing header. This was
agreed to at the Stockholm meeting. Also added examples and text to
describe how the routing header should be processes.
4) Fragmentation section augmented with additional text to describe how
it works and how suggested mechanisms work.
5) Added requirement that all nodes must be able to reassemble packets
1500 bytes long. Min MTU still 576.
ICMP
1) Deleted description of Pseudo header and replace it with a pointer to
the pseudo header in the base IPv6 document.
Status of other IPv6-over-Foo Docs
FDDI: Same state as Ethernet. Ready to do last call. Working group
chairs will issue working group last call.
Token Ring: Status unknown. Author did not attend. Will check with
author then do a last call.
PPP: Need to get a code point. Document editor will ask Internet AD to
get a code point. Dimitry Haskin will write a IPv6overPPP document.
ATM: Work going on in IPoverATM w.g. There are several proposals.
Other: AppleTalk? HIPPI? FiberChannel?
Discussion about AppleTalk. There is a old working group and a draft
(expired?). We need to find this draft and do a IPv6overAppleTalk
version. Chairs will talk to Internet AD's. AppleTalk Forum may have
started doing an IPv4 version, but did not complete it. This document
appears to be harder to write than the Ethernet/FDDI versions. Brian C.
this is an IPv6overPropritary protocol, maybe we don't have to worry
about it. Deering mentioned that Appletalk was the reason to have 576
MTU. It would be very unfortunate if we don't end up doing IPv6 over
Appletalk. Running IP over Appletalk is also very common.
No plan to do IPv6 over SLIP.
Multihomed Hosts
Multihomed hosts need to have an unique interface token for of their
interfaces on the same link. One way to accomplishing this is to add a
unique value (such as an interface number) to link local address. There
was not a consensus on this approach. A number of questions and issues
were raised, and further discussion was deferred to the mailing list.
KRE said w.g. need to define what bits are in the address format. Does
not need to define the contents of the field. Nordmark said that it was
not clear what is the advantage of this approach. Doesn't think this
would make multihomed easier. It was also pointed out this approach
has a conflict with duplicate detection in ND. Gilligan mentioned that
new API spec. has some features with make multihomed easier. The feature
depends on each interface having unique addresses (not same link local
address). KRE said he was not sure the API interface alone is sufficient
to solve this problem.
Long discussion. Important to have overall solution. This proposal only
helps host differentiate it's own interface address. It does not help
host know which interface to use when going to a specific off link
destination.
No consensus on this approach. We need a document which covers the whole
issue. KRE agreed to write a draft.
Dan McDonald, Jim Bound (and other people from Digital) are also working on
a multihomed proposal.
Suggestion that this should also cover multiple interfaces on same link.
PMTU Discovery / Jack McCann
Started with RFC1191. Took out IPv4 specific pieces which include:
router specification
DF bit
TCP MSS
old stype DGTP messages
plateau tables
What is left:
definition of path : src, dest, flow-id, routing header info
Packet too big message
detecting MTU increases (timers)
implementation suggestions
This document also applies to multicast. Note need to do PathMTU
discovery for local link destinations.
No issues raised. Chairs will do a working group last call when next
version of the internet draft is out.
Anycast usage by Hosts
Currently anycast addresses can only be assigned to routers. Discussion
on mailing list about also assigning anycast addresses to hosts. Anycast
are desirable powerful tool, but are also dangerous due to scaling
problems. What is next step to use? Currently hosts can not be members
of anycast groups because routing system needs to learn about anycast
addresses. Hosts do not currently participate in routing protocols.
Proposal on list to use an extension to the IGMP protocol for hosts to
tell routers what anycast addresses they have (similar to the way they
tell routers which multicast addresses they). The working group like
this proposal. It might not even have to define any new messages, though
it may not fit exactly. The larger questions is how to distribute this
information around routing system?
A good next step is a write a document describing how hosts should tell
routers which anycast addresses a host has. First step should be how
host should use these address, not how to inject into routing system.
Someone should write a specification. Working group is inviting a
document to be written.
API Specification / Bob Gilligan
Reviewed detailed changes in new version of document. Changes from
previous version of the document include:
- Changed u_long and u_short types in structures to u_int32_t and
u_int16_t for consistency and clarity.
- Added implementation-provided constants for IPv4 and IPv6 text
address buffer length.
- Defined a set of constants for subfields of sin6_flowid and for
priority values.
- Defined constants for getting and setting the source route flag.
- Define where ansi prototypes for hostname2addr(),
addr2hostname(), addr2ascii(), ascii2addr(), and
ipv6_isipv4addr() reside.
- Clarified the include file requirements. Say that the structure
definitions are defined as a result of including the header file
<netinet/in.h>, not that the structures are necessarily defined
there.
- Removed underscore chars from is_ipv4_addr() function name for
BSD compatibility.
- Added inet6_ prefix to is_ipv4_addr() function name to avoid
name space conflicts.
- Changes setsockopt option naming convention to use IPV6_ prefix
instead of IP_ so that there is clearly no ambiguity with IPv4
options. Also, use level IPPROTO_IPV6 for these options.
- Made hostname2addr() and addr2hostname() functions thread-safe.
- Added support for sendmsg() and recvmsg() in source routing
section.
- Changed in_addr6 to in6_addr for consistency.
- Re-structured document into sub-sections.
- Deleted the implementation experience section. It was too
wordy.
- Added argument types to multicast socket options.
- Added constant for largest source route array buffer.
- Added the freehostent() function.
- Added receiving interface determination and sending interface
selection options.
- Added definitions of ipv6addr_any and ipv6addr_loopback.
- Added text making the lookup of IPv4 addresses by
hostname2addr() optional.
A few issues were brought up in the resulting discussion:
- Matt Thomas suggested that in addition to the global variables
ipv6addr_any and ipv6addr_loopback, systems should also
provide constants for that can be used for initializing IPv6
address variables to these values.
- A number of people suggested that systems should be allowed to
use the all-zeros IPv6 address as the value for
ipv6addr_any.
- Erik Nordmark suggested that the return parameter to the
hostname2addr() function be changed to include the address
lifetime (TTL) which is stored with the address in the DNS.
This would provide applications with the information they need
to know when to stop using an address.
Bob agreed to make these changes and re-issue the internet-draft.
After that, a working group last-call will be held to promote the specification
to Informational RFC.
ICMP Echo Response Truncation
Text should be changed suggest to hosts should try to send back all data.
Document editor will talk to RFC editor to see if this change can be made
before RFC is published.
[Should I include this section]
What Pieces are Left?
This working group should deal with: FTP, header compression, multicast,
multihoming, Brian Carpenter suggested we look at list in RFC 1752 for
topics to be addresses.
FTP
Discussion about using FooBAR. Some input that might be better to include
names instead of addresses. Needs to be looked at again.
Routing Protocols
RIP, OSPF, IDRP, InterDomain (IDRP or BGPng), Multicast Routing?
MIBs
Dimitry Haskin has a private MIB for v6, is willing to propose it to the
w.g.
IESG started working group in internet area to do IPv6 MIBs. Dave
Arneson is chair of this group. Name of group is ipv6-mib w.g.
Subscribe by sending email to:
ip6mib-request@research.ftp.com
There is a document archive at:
ftp://research.ftp.com/pub/ip6mib/archive
Service Location
Important for plug and play operation. Current working group working on
service for IPv4. Charlie Perkins thinks it would be easy to adapt for
IPv6. Some question about using names instead of address in service
location protocol. Deering suggest when group produces protocol for
IPv4, we should look at it see how it applies to IPv6.
Mobility
Assigned to Mobile IP group. Our goal is that every IPv6 host can be
mobile and know how to talk to a mobile host. Nice to eliminate triangle
routing problem too. Charlie Perkons has written a draft.
Dynamic DNS
New Lifetimes in DNS
The issue is whether we need lifetime fields in the DNS to
handle renumbering or if it is sufficient to overload the cache TTL
values for this purpose.
A second point/question was whether the standard gethostbyname()-type API
routines should be changed to return a TTL as well, so applications could
determine how long the addresses they cache are valid.
Tunneling Specification / Alex Conta
Presented model for IPv6 tunnels, each tunnel is only one directions.
Showed effect on protocol modules and packet flows through system.
Specification does not have any association between hop-limit of
encapsulated packet and tunnel header. Results in having to limit number
of recursive encapsulations because it will not detect tunnel routing
loops. Discussion on how tunnel destination option works. Some
question if it is really necessary. Continuing working on this on the
mailing list then do a last call.
Status of IPng Area
Steve Deering reported on lunch meeting w/ IPng area directors and
Internet Area and Routing AD on discussion when IPng area concludes.
Then the IPng working groups will move into appropriate area. IPng will
move into Internet area. AddrConf will conclude and work will move into
IPng working group. NG-Trans will move into Ops area. Sue Thompson will
be primary AD for the IPng working group.
Working group also thanked Scott Bradner and Allison for their work as
Internet AD's. They did a great job!
Implementation Status / Questions
SD mentioned again the importance of IPv6 extension headers be processed
in order.
To subscribe to IPv6 Implementors list send email to:
ipv6imp-request@munuari.oz.au
Request to add notice of this list in IPng list mail signatures, in the
charter, and on the IPng web pages.
IPng bakeoff will be held February 6-10 at the University of New
Hampshire. There is a small charge to cover food and other minor
expenses.
IPv4 mobility group approved the general direction of IPv6 mobility
specification. It is important that every IPv6 node support mobility.
Time for Implementors to look at current draft. Charlie Perkins
described the features of this draft. IPv6 Mobility draft written by
Perkins.
Deering suggested that it would be good for current routers to be
assigned native IPv6 address and set up tunnels to other similar nodes.
Dimitry Haskin asked if any provider wanted to donate any links for IPv6
native testing.
Jim Bound reported that he thought that ISI will do a RIPng and IDRP.
Deering mentioned the test address allocation document and suggest that
people use it to get native IPv6 addresses.
Suggestion to add list of current IPv6 hosts on IPng web page. Bill
Manning had previously volunteered to do initial IPv6 DNS. Bob Hinden
volunteered to have people install machines at Ipsilon to be on the
Internet. Geert Jan de Groot, RIPE NCC, volunteered to become the first
root server for the IPv6 6-BONE. Discussion of approach to use a new
root domain for experimentation. Goal of group is to set up 6-BONE by
the next IETF meeting.
Discussion about what IPv6 features should be tested during
interoperability testing. The group came up with the following list:
o Base IPv6
o Option Processing
o Fragmentation & Reassembly
o MTU Discovery (unicast & multicast)
o Routing Header handling
o Authentication Header
o ESP Header
o Neighbor Discovery
- Router Discovery
- Address Resolution (normal & proxy)
- Redirects
- Prefix Discovery
- Auto-Configuration
- Duplicate Detection
- Neighbor Unreachability Detection
o Transition
- Dual IP stack selection
- Configured Tunnels
- Automatic Tunnels
o Multicast (sending, receiving, ICMP)
o DNS Resolver
o Routing
- Unicast
- Multicast
o Applications
- Ping
- Telnet
- FTP
- email
- NFS
- vat
- traceroute
- X11
- WWW / HTTP
o BSD API
o ICMP Error generation and processing
o No Next Header
This list will be posted on the implementations mailing list and
Implementors should respond with which thing they can be ready to test in
February at UNH.
The current Implementors meet and came up with the following subset of
features they thought could be ready for testing in February at UNH:
- base ipv6
- option processing
- fragmentation and reassembly
- mtu discovery (unicast and multicast)
- routing header handling
- authentication
- esp (not)
- router discovery
- address resolution (but no proxy yet)
- redirects
- prefix discovery
- stateless autoconfig
- duplicate detect
- nud
- stack selection for dual IP (not an interoperability issue)
- configured tunnels
- automatic tunneling
- multicast (sending, receiving, icmp) (yes, optional for icmp)
- dns resolver (over v4) (optional, or /etc/hosts6)
- bsd api (by porting a simple application)
- ICMP error generation and processing (yes, exercised by testing program)
- no next header
- unicast routing (static, then RIP by February)
Test applications:
- ping, traceroute
- telnet, ftp (with foobar), email
- vat/ ivs
- multicast version of rwhod, mping, mtest...