HAM Radio 1/HamRadio.cdr/misc/pkthints/pd91044.txt

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Subject: Packet-Radio Digest V91 #44
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Packet-Radio Digest         Fri, 15 Feb 91       Volume 91 : Issue  44

Today's Topics:
                         'To:' field anarchy!
                               budlist
                     Converse Node EPROM for TNC2
         packet<--->internet<--->packet gateway - my proposal
                 Packet BEGINNER needs info (2 msgs)
                        Shareware over packet?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
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Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Packet-Radio Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/packet-radio".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 7 Feb 91 12:27:16 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!csc.canberra.edu.au!echo![e-mail]  (Carl Makin)
Subject: 'To:' field anarchy!
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian Lloyd) writes:

>be a good place to work out something better. I've added an LG command
>(List Group) to my software which lists all the TO `groups' and the number
>of messages in each group. You can also type LG group_name (eg LG RAYNET)

This sounds like a good idea but I wonder at how much use it will get.
You always have your intelligent user who is interested in getting
the most out of the command set (I have perhaps 3 out of 60 users. :-( )
but the general amateur population seem to learn (perhaps) 4 commands
and stick to them.  The commands seem to be L, LL n, R n and K n.  Putting
up another command, while it would be usefull, will probably be wasted.

>had hoped to tighten things up as people got used to the idea. If anyone's
>got any better ideas, though, I'd be interested to hear them.

For the present we have to maintain some compatability with the present
structure (as painful as that is).  This shouldn't be too hard.

I would like to see a simple menuing system similar to OPUS telephone BBSs.
ie;
VK1KCM BBS Main Menu
M)essage Areas  F)iles Areas  S)ystem Bulletins
C)hange User Parameters  B)ye (Logoff)
and so on.
The same for the File and Message menus.  Some form of "Tagging"
messages for later reading.  Nothing I'm saying here is new.  It's been around
for years on OPUS Telephone BBSs and in various News readers.

I have played about with placing telephone BBSs on packet.  QuickBBS (once
I disabled the hotkeys. :-) and Maximus.  They both worked reasonably well
despite the keys being echoed and I had quite favourable comments from
those users who noticed I had a second BBS beaconing away and tried it. :-)

Carl
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
3:620/241.7
(There may be another .sig at the end.  If there is then sorry.  I'm new. :-)

------------------------------

Date: 7 Feb 91 12:57:39 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!csc.canberra.edu.au!echo![e-mail]  (Carl Makin)
Subject: budlist
To: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Curtis [phone]) writes:

>Most of these postings aren't worth the ether they use up, id est
>"for sale - 100 foot tower - you remove", etc., or "for sale - 50
>Icom H-T's - call Joe at the Ham Store" (well, he might as well word
>it as such - it's obvious to all of us what's going on here :-).

Absolutely NO disposals or for sales are allowed in Australia.  We have
had similar problems with our ALL@VKNET and @ASIA destinations though.

>If the user were prompted to "register" before being permitted to
>send multi-destination mail, and were forced to read through some
>common-sense rules and AGREE TO ABIDE BY THEM, a lot of these
>problems would be eliminated.  Look at how many @allus messages
>are sent out of simple ignorance.

This I agree with.  I'd love the ability to assign security levels to
users with attendant differing help levels and privledges.

Perhaps this should be included in our definitation of a new user interface
discussion that has been going on.  We've been talking about segregating
groups (areas/newsgroups etc) and slapping destination controls on would
be simplicity itself to this sort of interface.

Perhaps this just highlights how inadequate the current BBS system really is.

Carl.
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
3:620/241.7

------------------------------

Date: 7 Feb 91 02:55:26 GMT
From: ubc-cs!alberta!alberta!adec23!aunro!ve6mgs![e-mail]  (Mark Salyzyn)
Subject: Converse Node EPROM for TNC2
To: [e-mail]

Can anyone provide me with information about the Converse Node. A local
Gentleman (VE6HIM) asked me and I could not provide him with any information.
E-mail replies to ...!aunro!ve6mgs!ve6him or ...!alberta!adec23!mark would be
appreciated. Thanks in Advance, 73 de VE6MGS/Mark -sk-

------------------------------

Date: 13 Feb 91 06:28:58 GMT
From: emory!samsung!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!edgar!brainiac![e-mail]  (Jeffrey Comstock)
Subject: packet<--->internet<--->packet gateway - my proposal
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>
>
>In the case of PrepNet, it would be a definite violation of the Acceptable
>Use Policy.  I am also quite certain (although I have not read the applicable
>papers) that this would apply to The NSFNET and any other regional connected
>to it.  The rules might be different for commercial connections, but that
>greatly limits the possible connection points.

Who says ?  It sounds like some very hardcore networking research, and it's
non profit ( by law ) to boot.  What more can you ask for ?

------------------------------

Date: 7 Feb 91 10:22:40 GMT
From: milton![e-mail]  (John Siemion)
Subject: Packet BEGINNER needs info
To: [e-mail]

Hi,

I am an Electrical Engineer and would like to set up my own
packet radio data communications system (preferably with a laptop).

I don't have a radio license yet or know much about the procedures
to go about getting one.  Could you give me some items to take care of
so I can get started?

Example information needed:

    all hardware required, suggested items to buy ( <$500 )
    required and suggested reading materials
    steps necessary to get a license (can I simply take the
        technician class test or do I have to take the novice
        first and work up to technician class?...should I
        even opt for a higher class than technician?)
    access to the Internet/UUCP networks
    typical/maximum data rates possible
    is a completely portable unit possible?
    what kinds of connections are possible with what countries?


Thanks in advance.   :-)

Please respond by email if you can.

John Siemion       Internet:  [e-mail]
        FidoNet:   1:343/15  (John Siemion)

------------------------------

Date: 7 Feb 91 15:10:28 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!manuel!coombs![e-mail]  (Daniel Carosone)
Subject: Packet BEGINNER needs info
To: [e-mail]

[e-mail] (John Siemion) writes:
[novice questions]
>Please respond by email if you can.

Please post, or at least email me too. I am also interested in these questions.
--
Dan.
    email best site: [e-mail]
         or try:              [e-mail]
                           [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 Feb 91 04:04:58 GMT
From: ucivax![e-mail]  (Clark Turner)
Subject: Shareware over packet?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Dave Heller) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Clark Turner) writes:

...(deleted stuff)...

>> is and is not a "business activity" in a legal sense can be quite a
>> complicated issue in a commercial case.  To act as an [informed] attorney,
>> I need to know the language used, the relevant definitions, and the
>> standards laid down by the relevant ruling agency.  If anyone has such things
>> --- I would love the references.  I am building a file of Amateur radio
>> legal information so that if called upon by my local club or friend [who
>> is not about to spend thousands of dollars just to improve the ARS], I may
>> be of some service.
>> WA3JPG                                  quite as comfortably in the circuits
>
>
>
>This sounds like a lawyer talking.

Indeed.  I have been a lawyer for a miniscule part of my life.  Otherwise,
I am a good and kind, and semi-intelligent human being.  I support ham radio
wherever and whenever I can for free.

>Your call indicates you've been an
>amateur for at least 25 years, and

Yes.  I have been licensed for quite nearly that amount of time.  I have
not been active for all that time.  I have not had the money to keep up
with the latest, and for most of the time, have not been able to afford
any equipment at all.  I have been employed as a teacher (of math and
computer science) and researcher basically.  Currently I am a software
engineering researcher and make enough to feed myself and maintain one
HT that I got by doing side work in network research.

>presumably you've kept up with the
>popular literature, read QST regularly,
>etc.

Not so.  I have had other duties call, and have, on occasion, even shied
away from the hobby because it was so hard to get a decent conversation
other than about someone's new Japanese radio equipment, or I had too hard
a time with QRM.  Not like it used to be.

>So you should know that any attempt by
>the Amateurs openly to attempt to defy
>the Great God FCC leads to problems that
>have a nasty habit of doing far more harm
>than good.

This is patently false.  I have seen some good come from challenging the
FCC, albeit only occasionally.  Ask the League.  They have accomplished
some things.

>
>A little common sense tells one whether a
>subject is business or not, and if it is
>the rules say "lay off".

Again, this may be a good rule of thumb, but if MY FRIEND or NEIGHBOR ham
is hauled in by the FCC with a challenge to his "business use" of ham radio
- I intend to be quite ready to help him/her with the relevant rules and
be able to cite similar cases where they exist.  This is how America runs.
It is not necessarily opposed to "common sense", complicated or expensive.
It frequently is not any of these.  I work this way.,

>
>Experience shows that for the FCC there's no
>Gray Area.  Ask them a question on some
>ill-defined subject and the answer is always
>NO.

Again, I don't find this true or helpful.

>
>If a subject looks questionable (and this one
>about shareware vs public domain certainly
>fills the definition) and you really want an
>intelligent, and probably informed, answer,
>go to the League.

This is probably a good thing to do, since I am getting no helpful responses
here, and am getting a lot of the opposite for my mere interest in the
topic.

>
>The best you can accomplish by pestering FCC
>is to screw things up for everyone else.
>
No one here suggests pestering the FCC.  I don't understand where you got
this.  I want to be able to advise the local, naive amateurs in matters
that may be solved simply with some informed common sense, which is what
I am after.

>Don't we have enough problems as it is already?
>Look at that crap coming from Norfolk to such
>as W3IWI and some others who rank with the
>best Amateur Radio can call its own.

I am not familiar with the case.  It sounds as though I wouldn't be involved.

>
>Don't stir up problems where none exist.  Read
>the rules, Part 97, and try hard to abide with
>their spirit, and all will (or should) be fine.

I don't do this and I resent the automatic assumption that I was about to,
sir.  I seek to do just the opposite, and ANY person who knows me will
attest to.  The advice to read part 97 and common sense is, of course,
a good start.  I already knew that part.

>
>If you want some lawyer business, go chase an
>ambulance.  Leave Amateur Radio out of it.

Your characterization of "lawyer business" is that of a naive person who
doesn't know much except the popular incantations of uninformed people.
Ambulance chasing is not what I do, sir, and, again, your insinuation is an
insult.  I have done very little lawyering, mostly for free for amateurs
who have local ordinances to deal with for antenna restrictions.   I am
damned proud of that.  I intend to continue.  I do not cause problems, I
am called upon AFTER they arise and try to solve them quickly (outside the
legal process first), but if someone is being trampled, I will use the
force of the law to help them.  That, again, is what America is about.

If, perhaps, you wish to correspond on this topic, we should probably
do it outside the net here in the future.  Write me via e-mail or even
snail if you wish.  I would be happy to discuss the general issues further.


Clark

----------
Clark S. Turner                        "The Buddha, the Godhead, resides
WA3JPG                                  quite as comfortably in the circuits
[e-mail]                      of a digital computer or the gears
----------                              of a cycle transmission as he does
                                        at the top of a mountain or in the
                                        petals of a flower."
                                                             - Robt. Pirsig
----------
714 856 2131    1514 Verano Pl., Irvine, CA. 92715
admitted to practice law in NY, MA, and CA.
----------

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End of Packet-Radio Digest
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