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orbital-digest         Wednesday, July 7 1999         Volume 02 : Number 214




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 22:37:40 -0400
From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) RE: Rebuttal

Juno Jackson wrote:
>
>   Whoa :0 , Let's get one thing straight; 160 CD's or not, you DON'T EVER
> put White Zombie and Natalie Imbruglia in the same category as
> techno/electronic. I don't care what they use in their songs; that was just
> a total insult to the whole genre !

Dude, don't blow a top and read the whole &#$%ing statement!

"Most of the rest are techno-related..."

Techno-related.  Okay?  Not techno.  I didn't put them in the same catagory.  I
hate it when people don't bother reading the entire message and only read what
they choose to read.

- --
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper ([e-mail])
Computer techie, PERL hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru
Resonator Software (http://www.resonatorsoft.com/)

(OLM can blow me for forcing me to go back to POP3.  I want my IMAP back!)


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 17:47:52 -0400
From: Marc Sawaya <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orbital) Loopz

I got a new computer, so I'm really ecstatic right now, but that
encouraged me to check all of my bookmarks, and I saw the opener for
loopz.co.uk.  It has the MoN shadow guy on it w/ a white background.  It
looked really damn good.  Is there a big loopz visual overhaul on the
way, or is that just for the intro page?  I think it would look very
good in a new layout, and I realing how much work that is, too.  Well
Steve, watcha think?  I'd like to help somehow if you decide to (or have
decided to) change the page!

- -Marc Sawaya



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 19:56:09 -0700
From: Matthew Ford <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) Re: [Review: Orbital in Chicago (cont.)

There isnt a difference really.  Ive had a hard time understanding why its now
being known as  breakbeat in the US.  Especially since you could classify many
styles of music as breakbeat if you wanted.

.matthewford.

"FUCK P.L.U.R.!!"

life kid wrote:

> actually, may i ask, what IS the difference between "big" and "break"
> beat? i thought the brits called it "big beat" while we in america
> referred to it as "break beat." what am i missing?
>
> --
> len perez | email : [e-mail] | uiuc : graphic design
>
> now playing: the chemical brothers_surrender





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:39:15 -0700
From: Matthew Ford <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orbital) A Little Points On Particular Things

Here it comes !

*Crystal Method and LoFi Allstars SUCK!  No matter how you argue it, you
cant win.  Ill admit, the first time I heard Busy Child was a few weeks
before the album came out so I bought it.  A week later it ended up
under my bed.  They are horrific live and in interviews they shoot off
at the mouth about how much better they are than other electronic
artists (like Aphex Twin) because they have such a rock star attitude.
LoFi Allstars are just another rock/electronic hybrid that wont be
around for very long cause their so called fans will move on to the next
"NEW ROCKTRONICA ACT" that radio stations throw at them (Take the shitty
Freestylers for instance).

*The Community Service Tour was NOT intended to be a RAVE.  It was
intended to be a Lollapalooza or OzzFest style tour only with electronic
acts (why else would Orbital have gotten stuck with LoFi and Meth?)

*Big Beat (or breakbeat if you will)  is just another genre that had a
promising future but was cut short by artists who "exploited" it
(Cirrus, Lunatic Calm, Freestylers, Fatboy Slim on his second album,
etc).

*Jimi Hendrix is VERY talented but his image is mis/over used today by
today's youth who know nothing about the broad spectrum of rock.

*I (and many many people) sit down all the time at raves even when
theres nothing but a floor.  Theres no rule saying you HAVE to flail
your arms around ever time you chuck out 30 bucks (or make that
masterful call to get on the guest list-hehe) to wait for about 10 lame
local DJs to finish their half assed sets just to hear 1 or 2 decent
acts perform.

*Moby...minimal?  Shitty maybe (with the exception of "Ambient" and a
few choice cuts) but not minimal at all.  He's quite horrible at faking
a live set as well (Hey Moby, you supposed to HIDE the DAT you chank!)

*Green Album kicks ass!  The import is much better though (if only I
could find a copy for myself...)

*Have any of you who critised my opposition of the CST lineup now
changed your opinion? :)


Thats all I suppose...FLAME ON!
but remember it IS my opinion...it just happens to be right. Hehehehe.

.matthewford.

"FUCK P.L.U.R.!"

Now Listening TO:

TeeBee & K "Black Science"
Aux 88-"Xeo-Genetic"
Omni Trio-"Music For The Next Millenium"
Cha Cha Cha-"Hat Trick EP"
Todd Terry-"Resolutions"



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 20:47:07 PDT
From: Juno Jackson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orbital) Re-Rebuttal Again

IN RESPONSE :


   Yes, I know that you didn't put them in the same category. But to even
say that some of those artists are techno-related is just completely
ludicrous. And of course I chose the parts that I wanted to read because the
post was simply too fucking long !!!

  As for my "greatest gig" list :

   Mickey Hart is one of the drummers from the Grateful Dead; Planet Drum is
one of his tribal-esque side projects (I mean tribal NOT in the electronic
sense).

   Kitaro is a wonderful Japanese composer.

   Yello is a classic electronic group from Switzerland (where have you been
for the last 20 years or so ? If you knew ANYTHING about electronic music,
you would surely know something about Yello).

  I meant to put Vangelis on the list because his music kicks ass and there
is more to his compositions than just "Chariots of Fire". Listen to "Heaven
& Hell" or the Blade Runner soundtrack and maybe you'll figure out what I
mean.

For responding "blah" to Kraftwerk you should be shot (j/k; but you know
what I mean !) .

Zapp & Roger don't sound very much like 60's folk to me; I don't think that
I could picture a crowd of hippies dancing to "More Bounce To The Ounce",
but that's just me. ;)

There were some moments at first when Art of Noise got on my nerves, but
they grew on me and I have loved them to death for the last four years.

Anything else you want to mention ???


NoiseWerker

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
zzyzx.8m.com
ICQ #42651237


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:15:36 -0400
From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) A Little Points On Particular Things

Matthew Ford wrote:
>
> *Crystal Method and LoFi Allstars SUCK!  No matter how you argue it, you
> cant win.  Ill admit, the first time I heard Busy Child was a few weeks
> before the album came out so I bought it.  A week later it ended up
> under my bed.  They are horrific live and in interviews they shoot off
> at the mouth about how much better they are than other electronic
> artists (like Aphex Twin) because they have such a rock star attitude.
> LoFi Allstars are just another rock/electronic hybrid that wont be
> around for very long cause their so called fans will move on to the next
> "NEW ROCKTRONICA ACT" that radio stations throw at them (Take the shitty
> Freestylers for instance).

Matter of opinion.  I could say that Aphex Twin and all of the other little
minimalism acts suck balls because they are boring and uninteresting...but I
won't because it's just my opinion.

> *The Community Service Tour was NOT intended to be a RAVE.  It was
> intended to be a Lollapalooza or OzzFest style tour only with electronic
> acts (why else would Orbital have gotten stuck with LoFi and Meth?)

Techno = rave.  Quit trying to call it something else.

> *Big Beat (or breakbeat if you will)  is just another genre that had a
> promising future but was cut short by artists who "exploited" it
> (Cirrus, Lunatic Calm, Freestylers, Fatboy Slim on his second album,
> etc).

Hey look!  It's another anti-bigbeat guy!  I guess these intolerant guys come
a-dime-a-dozen.

> *Jimi Hendrix is VERY talented but his image is mis/over used today by
> today's youth who know nothing about the broad spectrum of rock.

I hope you're not implying anything...

> *I (and many many people) sit down all the time at raves even when
> theres nothing but a floor.  Theres no rule saying you HAVE to flail
> your arms around ever time you chuck out 30 bucks (or make that
> masterful call to get on the guest list-hehe) to wait for about 10 lame
> local DJs to finish their half assed sets just to hear 1 or 2 decent
> acts perform.

30 bucks?  You're obviously going to the wrong raves.  The commericialistic ones
may be your only jumping to the better raves, but those aren't the only ones.
The best raves are the 10 buck ones with fairly good DJs and friendly people.
(Unless we're talking about the professional acts like CST.)

> *Moby...minimal?  Shitty maybe (with the exception of "Ambient" and a
> few choice cuts) but not minimal at all.  He's quite horrible at faking
> a live set as well (Hey Moby, you supposed to HIDE the DAT you chank!)

"with the exception of Ambient"...I guess we have another minimalist here.  Do
all minimalists hate bigbeat and vise-versa, or is it just me?  I dunno about
you, but I went to electronica music because I wanted something complex and full
of different sounds (unlike today's alternative/rap/R&B scene).

> *Green Album kicks ass!  The import is much better though (if only I
> could find a copy for myself...)

I just listened to it again, and it's better than I thought, but it's so
outdated now.  I reserve the phrase "kicks ass" for better albums like MoN and
Sniv.

> *Have any of you who critised my opposition of the CST lineup now
> changed your opinion? :)

No.  I came to the Chicago concert -because- of the CST lineup.

> Thats all I suppose...FLAME ON!
> but remember it IS my opinion...it just happens to be right. Hehehehe.

Damn, you're an arrogant asshole.  I'm glad I joined this mailing list.  It
definately needs some conflicting opinions to balance out all of this
anti-bigbeat attitude.

> .matthewford.
>
> "FUCK P.L.U.R.!"

What's PLUR?  (No dots...modern English rule.)

> Now Listening TO:
>
> TeeBee & K "Black Science"
> Aux 88-"Xeo-Genetic"
> Omni Trio-"Music For The Next Millenium"
> Cha Cha Cha-"Hat Trick EP"
> Todd Terry-"Resolutions"

Listening to Underworld's Pearl's Girl (Tin There Mix)

- --
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper ([e-mail])
Computer techie, PERL hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru
Resonator Software (http://www.resonatorsoft.com/)


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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:13:08 -0600
From: life kid <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: (orbital) more replies... (3)

> >* Drugs: quit complaining, they've shaped modern music (trip-hop, trance,
> > acid techno, house - you name it, there's a drug for it)
>
> Hell, they shaped all of rock, too.
>
it's funny, a friend and i were discussing the use of drugs and music.
and we came to the conclusion that the two major genres of music that
don't use drugs are christian rock and country. which just,
coincidentally, have no association to illegal drugs. the closest they
come is beer, and that just makes you sloppy.

> > * Green = good
>
> Fine.  I'll listen to the goddamn CD again.  (Skipping Speed Freak, fucked over by
>
> Moby...)
>
see if you can find the european import, it has a couple of different
tracks. more importantly, it has the original version of speed freak.

> NoiseWerker wrote:
> >
> >       In my opinion, this would the bomb-ass line up to end all bomb-ass
> > line ups :
> >       Kraftwerk
> Blah...
>
you've never seen them live, eh? trust me, they sound a lot better when
they've got bass.

> >       Art of Noise (with J.J. and Gary back along with everyone else)
> Enhh...they're ok.
>
do yourself a favor and pick up, "who's afraid of..." and "the seduction
of claude debussy" by the AoN.

> >       Yello
> Who?
>
their first break into the mainstream was having their song "oh yeah" on the

soundtrack of "ferris bueller's day off."

> >Pet Shop Boys
>Ewww!

ack! what are you talking about? PSB rock!

> >Vangelis
>What?!  That Chariots of Fire dude?!

pick up, "themes" and "antartica." i'll agree that i wouldn't put him

on the same bill as the previous bands, though.

>>Underworld
>Yeah...the first good one I heard.

>>Kitaro
>Who?

in the same vein as vangelis.

- --
len perez | email : [e-mail] | uiuc : graphic design

now playing: underworld_bruce lee

"I was under the influence"





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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:14:29 -0600
From: life kid <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) More replies...(2)

Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper wrote:

> life kid wrote:
>
> Really?  I have a real hard time matching techno tunes with their names, even
> though I listened to them a hundred times.  For example, except for the real
> stand-outs (Forever, Duck Feet, Quality Seconds), Snivilisation is a blur even
> though I really like the album.

i guess i just like music a lot, or something. as for me, i think every song on
that album is a real stand-out.


> Sorry, it's been a while since I listened to Orbital 1.  Listening to
> Snivilisation now.  Just finished with Diversions and Orbital 2.  (That concert
> got me back into listening some of the older Orbitals.)

tell me about it. the way back home, i popped in the second disc (of the second
release) of "insides" and played tracks 2 and 5 as loud as i possibly could!

- --
len perez | email : [e-mail] | uiuc : graphic design

now playing: the orb_u.f.orb (bandalu mix)

"I was under the influence"




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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:34:51 -0400
From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) Re-Rebuttal Again

Juno Jackson wrote:
>
> IN RESPONSE :
>
>    Yes, I know that you didn't put them in the same category. But to even
> say that some of those artists are techno-related is just completely
> ludicrous. And of course I chose the parts that I wanted to read because the
> post was simply too fucking long !!!

Have you even heard Natalie Imbruglia past Torn?  Torn is her worst song!  I
don't know why they even play that on the radio all the time.  (I guess the same
could be said for FBS's Praise You and Garbage's Special.)  She has a mixer,
too.  I'd put her in the same catagory as Bjork for most of her songs.  Plus her
singles get mixed by techno artists.  (For example, her Smoke single contains
remixes by Martyn Phillips, Ganja Kru, Way Out West, and The Beloved.)

And White/Rob Zombie's last two albums are industrial.  Industrial = techno +
metal.  Thus, techno-related.

Research before you answer, my friend.

>   As for my "greatest gig" list :
>
>    Mickey Hart is one of the drummers from the Grateful Dead; Planet Drum is
> one of his tribal-esque side projects (I mean tribal NOT in the electronic
> sense).

Hmmm..."tribal NOT in the electronic sense"?  Why would it belong in a
electronic concert/rave?

>    Kitaro is a wonderful Japanese composer.

Techno?  I do have an interest in the Japanese techno scene.

>    Yello is a classic electronic group from Switzerland (where have you been
> for the last 20 years or so ? If you knew ANYTHING about electronic music,
> you would surely know something about Yello).

Might have been in the back of my mind, but I've never heard anything from them.

>   I meant to put Vangelis on the list because his music kicks ass and there
> is more to his compositions than just "Chariots of Fire". Listen to "Heaven
> & Hell" or the Blade Runner soundtrack and maybe you'll figure out what I
> mean.

Hmmmm...

> For responding "blah" to Kraftwerk you should be shot (j/k; but you know
> what I mean !) .

Sorry, way too Speak-and-Spellish for my tastes.

> Zapp & Roger don't sound very much like 60's folk to me; I don't think that
> I could picture a crowd of hippies dancing to "More Bounce To The Ounce",
> but that's just me. ;)

I just said that the band name sounded like a 60's folk group.  I've heard of
the name, but I have no idea what catagory it goes under.

> There were some moments at first when Art of Noise got on my nerves, but
> they grew on me and I have loved them to death for the last four years.

I listened to their newest album on a listening station, and the thing that got
on my nerves was the retro 1800's sounds (which they brag about).  Dammit...I
want new sounds, not old.

> Anything else you want to mention ???

Go listen to Orzic Tentacles.  Best damn "space rock" band I've ever heard.
You'll love them if you like T.Dream.

- --
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper ([e-mail])
Computer techie, PERL hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru
Resonator Software (http://www.resonatorsoft.com/)


# Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list?
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 23:40:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: life kid <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: (orbital) more replies... (3)

> > >* Drugs: quit complaining, they've shaped modern music (trip-hop, trance,
> > > acid techno, house - you name it, there's a drug for it)
> >
> > Hell, they shaped all of rock, too.
> >
> it's funny, a friend and i were discussing the use of drugs and music.
> and we came to the conclusion that the two major genres of music that
> don't use drugs are christian rock and country. which just,
> coincidentally, have no association to illegal drugs. the closest they
> come is beer, and that just makes you sloppy.
okay,  re-reading that made me realize that i made no sense. what i was
trying to say was that the two genres of music that are probably the most
boring to listen to, are the two that don't associate themselves with
illegal drugs. thank you.

- --
len perez | email : [e-mail] | uiuc : graphic design

now playing: cypress hill_hits from the bong

"Life Kid,
    suck the box."



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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 21:42:09 PDT
From: Robert Schultz <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orbital) Can we all shut up now!?

Would you fucking pansies stop this shit? Please stop. It's getting on
my(and undoubtably everyone else's) nerves. You filled up my mailbox with
your jibber jabber, sounding like a bunch of school girls, and I'm sick of
hearing you children bicker about categories and shit. I will say it
blatantly, just shut up! What is the point of all this? Why do you have to
prove to the entire list about minor points, when you could be responding
personally to people with whom you disagree? I'm sure nobody here wants to
see your mails that are so unrelated to Orbital. Ok, well, just put it
behind you and forget about it ok? Thank you.

Robert Schultz


_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:50:18 -0400
From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) more replies... (3)

life kid wrote:
>
> it's funny, a friend and i were discussing the use of drugs and music.
> and we came to the conclusion that the two major genres of music that
> don't use drugs are christian rock and country. which just,
> coincidentally, have no association to illegal drugs. the closest they
> come is beer, and that just makes you sloppy.

Ok, country was influenced by lots of beer (which, since it's a mind-altering
substance, is a "drug").  Ok, does Christian Rock even count? :)  BTW, where's
the classical connection.  (Probably easy if I thought hard enough, but I wanted
to know what you found.)

> see if you can find the european import, it has a couple of different
> tracks. more importantly, it has the original version of speed freak.

Errr...I wished I bought that in the first place, but that seems like a lot of
money for something I doubt I'm going to listen to often.

> you've never seen them live, eh? trust me, they sound a lot better when
> they've got bass.

This is true...

> do yourself a favor and pick up, "who's afraid of..." and "the seduction
> of claude debussy" by the AoN.

I'll keep it in mind.

> their first break into the mainstream was having their song "oh yeah" on the
> soundtrack of "ferris bueller's day off."

Ahhh...that's where I heard that name.  At the time that I first heard it, it
was probably in the rap catagory, but I dunno...techno-rap?

> ack! what are you talking about? PSB rock!

Hmmm...maybe I'm accidently fitting them in the catagory of Beach Boys.  What
catagory do they fit in?

> pick up, "themes" and "antartica." i'll agree that i wouldn't put him
> on the same bill as the previous bands, though.

You aren't one of those wierdos that convinces people to listen to Yanni, are
you?

> now playing: underworld_bruce lee

Playing Natialie Imbruglia's Smoke single.  (Follow the trail of previous
messages...)  Good UW song, BTW.

- --
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper ([e-mail])
Computer techie, PERL hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru
Resonator Software (http://www.resonatorsoft.com/)


# Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list?
# Send the command "info orbital" to [e-mail].
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 01:00:42 -0400
From: Brendan Byrd/SineSwiper <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) Can we all shut up now!?

Robert Schultz wrote:
>
> Would you fucking pansies stop this shit? Please stop. It's getting on
> my(and undoubtably everyone else's) nerves. You filled up my mailbox with
> your jibber jabber, sounding like a bunch of school girls, and I'm sick of
> hearing you children bicker about categories and shit. I will say it
> blatantly, just shut up! What is the point of all this? Why do you have to
> prove to the entire list about minor points, when you could be responding
> personally to people with whom you disagree? I'm sure nobody here wants to
> see your mails that are so unrelated to Orbital. Ok, well, just put it
> behind you and forget about it ok? Thank you.

It was my understanding that, while Orbital is the main theme of the mailing
list, that this was a techno mailing list.  I know I'm a newcomer to this list,
but I think I have a lot of backing from other people on that statement.
Responding -privately- with people on the ML totally defeats the purpose of a
- -public- ML.  If you're worried about filling up your e-mail box, why did you
even subscribe to popular mailing list such as this?

(Frankly, I'd much prefer a message forum format.  I'll post another message
detailing this idea at another time.)

- --
Brendan Byrd AKA SineSwiper ([e-mail])
Computer techie, PERL hacker, and all-purpose Internet guru
Resonator Software (http://www.resonatorsoft.com/)


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 01:50:15 -0400
From: "Dr. Funkenstein" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) Rebuttal about Crys Meth, breakbeat, etc. (very long)

>In all intents and purposes, I am at least an intermediate expert in the
genres
>of techno that I like.

That's a bad way to start...I am up around 400 CD's (techno (tons of
genres), blues, jazz, folk, rock, hiphop, etc).  The problem is when you
list groups you're into then call yourself an "intermediate expert" there
are always people who will think you are a moron for saying that...and they
may well be right.  This is especially true when you list really mainstream
groups (for the most part). There are always a TON of "underground" groups
that are often much better than what you hear.  Now, I'm not trying to
critisize you or your musical taste, all I am going to say is that there
_few_ people around that can really call themselves anything close to
experts in a genre...mostly people who make a living off of knowing the genre.

>Well, it all depends on the flavor of the music.  I think all three bands had
>the right amount of energizing in that Chicago rave.  The more energy in your
>music, the more energy in your "egging on".

Just a comment...IMHO Orbital, Crystal Meth and whoever the third group was
is NOT in any sense of the word a rave...like I said just my opinion.

>Bah!  I admit that the Brits are the gods of...well...music.  (Trust
me...my CD
>collection is about 85% British.)  But, the US still does some cool music
>sometimes, though.  (Alternative music is not one of them.)  Crystal Method,

What?  Hello?  New York DJ's? Soulslinger? 1.8.7.? DJ Micro? Not to mention
the countless more "underground" DJ's that are around...  Britain has a
more mature electronic music scene, but you are f'ing nuts if you think
that most or all of the "good" Dj's are british...

>Drugs (including E) is illegal, dangerous, etc, etc.  I myself did some
research
>into E at www.ecstasy.org and www.hyperreal.org before I even considered
taking
>any.  Even so, I probably won't get into anything else like LSD or Special K.

I'm not trying to tell you not to do E (I've given serious consideration to
doing it myself) but I JUST heard of a new study that says it does some
long term, irreversible damage.  (Just a recomendation to keep watching for
more info...like I said I'm not trying to tell you what to do).
Unfortunately I didn't catch much about it on the radio...

>(look at my sig), with extensive knowledge on techno and music in general.
 And
>yes, I know good stuff.  Most of my electronica friends like bands like Crys
>Meth and Chem Bros, as well as bands like Orbital, and they are intelligent
>people who are techies and some have been (or still going) in the rave scene.

I diagree that you have extensive knowledge of music and/or techno.  Most
of the stuff you listed is HELLA mainstream...that's FINE...but I find it
hard to believe that you would list so little "non-radio" stuff if you had
heard of it.  I'm not trying to critisize your interest in more mainstream
techno I like a lot of it myself, but what you get exposed to varies SO
much by location, etc...it's foolish to say you have "extensive knowledge".
 To me, it doesn't sound like you've been to a lot of "real" raves.  I
haven't either, to be honest (somewhere around 6 or 7) but each one I go to
gives me a deluge of new DJ's I've never heard of.  Some of the most
incredible DJ's are VERY VERY hard or impossible to find in record stores
etc.  So just because your collection encompasses a lot of what you find at
the record store BY NO MEANS makes you any kind of an expert on electronica.
>Trip-Hop - Old-skool rap meets 90's electronica.  Coldcut, Fatboy Slim, Dub
>Pistols, DJ Shadow.

Decent definition, bad examples (except for shadow and maybe coldcut (never
heard of him).  Fatboy Slim is bigbeat.  Dub Pistols are bigbeat-ish and
dub-ish with maybe some trip-hop mixed in.

>Big Beat - Danceable, high-energy with complex rhythems.  Chem Bros, Crys
Meth,
>Cirrus, some of the Trip-Hops.

No trip-hop and bigbeat have very little in common.  Bigbeat is not much
into complex ruthm's either.  If you want a complex rhythm try jungle.

>Ambient - Music that is relaxing, but interesting.  The Orb, Brian Eno, older
>FSoL.

I agree although FSOL encroaches into other genre's too...



>Trance? - Juno Reactor, Fluke, Dayspring Collective.

Juno reactor yes, fluke no, DC don't know.  Trance has sub genre's like Goa
Trance (man with no name, Prana, Juno Reactor, etc) and Progressive trance
(DJ Micro and the like).

>I wasn't implying Moby was minimalism (though it -did- sound like it).
>Minimalism is Steve Reich and Aphex Twin.  I'm not a big fan of minimalism
>because I believe the whole purpose of techno is complex music.

AE is more like minimalism to me...I wouldn't call Aphex twin minimalism at
all...

>And while I hate Moby with a passion, I have enough respect for the guy to
not
>fit him in a catagory called dance, which is usually associated with "bands"
>like Ace of Base and Aqua and other shitty euro-trash.  I tend not to like
the
>term "house" either, which is related to disco.

House isn't the same as disco.  Nor is Prograssive house or Deep House or
UK HOuse...I thought you were an expert? (Sorry had to throw one needle in
there)


>IDM?  I'm kinda selective with my D&B/Jungle.  Bought Roni Size's New
Forms and
>didn't like it, but I enjoy my new Mocean Worker (Mixed Emotional Features).
>Bought Source Direct and it's currently in my
>stuff-that-I-don't-like-but-I'll-give-it-another-listen-someday section.

Try "This is Jungle Sky Volume I"....it is an I N C R E D I B L E
album...lots of good Jungle (not really any pur DnB (too many other
samples, instruments etc...just classic Jungle)



Listen, I'm not trying to critisize your musical taste AT ALL.  I just
object to the fact that you call yourself an expert or intermediate expert.
 I have spent a LOT of time and money on my techno collection and I am
Nowhere near being ANY kind of expert...there's just too much out there.
You also downplay American techno, which tells me that you just haven't
been exposed to some of the more underground stuff.  I'm not trying to
promote myself as knowing all this rare crazy shit, or trying to say that
rare = good and popular = bad...not AT ALL.  But I used to think I knew
something about electronic music until I met some people who had stuff I
had never heard of that blew my mind.  I also went to a rave here and there
and was blown away by some stuff I heard.

Okay enough...I've got to go to bed...
- ------------------------------------------------
David O'Connor - [e-mail]

         Assistant Systems Administrator
College of Business, Rochester Institute of Technology

Work: [phone]  Cell/Voice Mail: [phone]



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:47:14 -0400
From: "Patrick McGinn" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) Can we all shut up now!?

> Would you fucking pansies stop this shit? Please stop. It's getting on
> my(and undoubtably everyone else's) nerves. You filled up my mailbox with
> your jibber jabber, sounding like a bunch of school girls, and I'm sick of
> hearing you children bicker about categories and shit. I will say it
> blatantly, just shut up! What is the point of all this? Why do you have to
> prove to the entire list about minor points, when you could be responding
> personally to people with whom you disagree? I'm sure nobody here wants to
> see your mails that are so unrelated to Orbital. Ok, well, just put it
> behind you and forget about it ok? Thank you.

Listen.

You've got three options:

1) Learn how to use your mail software.  It has filters and killfiles for a
reason.  Not to mention, your keyboard has a delete key.
2) If you can't handle the amount of e-mail you get, unsubscribe.
3) Whine.

Which is the most constructive?

Mailing lists do not stay on topic because people have multiple interests...
Maybe it's just me, but I'm more into people than I am music.  I'm here to
participate in the Orbital community, not just so I can read tour diaries
(which I love) and news.  It'd be fucking boring if that was all that went
on.  I'd have unsubbed long ago.  I like this discussion.  If I didn't, I'd
either be hitting the delete key, or setting up a filter to do it for me.  I
get somewhere between 50 and 200 emails a day, it's not hard to manage.

Hugs and kisses,

Xaos
80 97 116 114 105 99 107 32 77 99 71 105 110 110




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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:57:07 PDT
From: Juno Jackson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orbital) Re-Re-Rebuttal

  To Brendan :

   (FIRST, FOR THE REST OF YOU, I MUST SAY THAT THIS WHOLE THING HAS
BEEN QUITE A REFRESHING CHANGE FROM ALL OF THE AUTECHRE BULLSHIT      WE'VE
BEEN EXPERIENCING ! I've never seen a newcomer with so much     spunk and
energy !!)

1) If Natalie Imbruglia clearly sounds more electronic than "Torn", I will
actually consider listening to the rest of her album.

2) Industrial is a part of electronic music, but I still consider Rob
to be more in the metal genre. Either way, he's still going to hell !
;)

3) What I meant by tribal not being in the electronic sense is that  Mickey
Hart and Planet Drum are more traditionally tribal, in the world music,
Native American sense.

4) Kitaro is more new age/ambient than techno.

5) Sorry regarding the whole Zapp & Roger thing. I didn't realize that you
were only going by the name alone. Yeah; they are FAR from
60's folk !

6) Pet Shop Boys are nowhere near the Beach Boys, although it was a nice pun
! Ever hear "West End Girls" ?

7) VANGELIS IS STILL THE BOMB, I DON'T CARE WHAT STAGE YOU PUT HIM ON  !!!
My mom likes Yanni very much as well, thank you !

8) Ozric Tentacles ??? Name sounds familiar. More backround info please.



Also, I forgot to add to the list :

ENIGMA (if Michael Cretu ever walks out of his house, I would love to see
him live for his first ever performance !)

DEEP FOREST ("3" wasn't too much of a pleaser for me, but I still like 'em)

THE POLICE (just because Stewart Copeland is the shit !!! Oh yeah; that
Sting guy is good too ! ;)  J/K !

GONG ("Downwind" rips !!!)


SADE (she's fine as hell and her songs are so unique)

MIKE OLDFIELD ("Tubular Bells " is the soundtrack to my life ! )


NoiseWerker

[e-mail]
noisewerkerhome.com
zzyzx.8m.com
ICQ #42651237







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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 23:58:07 -0700
From: Matthew Ford <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (orbital) Question To Those Who Have Already Seen Orbital On The  Comm Service Tour

Cool Cool.  Bought my ticket long time ago for the Long Beach show.  Working on
getting on the guest list for the San Diego show.

.matthewford.

Bob White wrote:

> of corse Orbital was last.  I just got back from the detroit show and the
> ROCKED.  YOU Must go see them.  they played for about an hour and a half.
>



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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:09:55 PDT
From: Juno Jackson <[e-mail]>
Subject: (orbital) LBC tix

  For those of you are going to the LBC show, what kinds of seats do you
think I will wind up getting if I purchase my tix in the next week or so ? I
know that the convention center isn't general admission like the Palladium.
Will I be fucked over with nosebleeders ?

  Also, to Brendan : AoN 4.0 has pretty new sounds w/o J.J. and Gary. You
can barely hear any "dum-dums" in the backround (that's only on one track
anyway). Sounds fresh to me; of course the Peter Gunn drum loop and the
Moments In Love samples are mainly there for nostalgia.
Does it really matter anyway ? It's been 10 years since they left ; I'm DAMN
glad that they're back !!!!


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------------------------------

End of orbital-digest V2 #214
*****************************