ftp.ee.pdx.edu/2014.02.ftp.ee.pdx.edu.tar/ftp.ee.pdx.edu/pub/frp/tsr/anno-threat

Text File | 1994-10-20 | 10KB | 219 lines

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: [e-mail] (Jeff Kesselman)
Subject: Re: TSR'S OFFICIAL LETTER -IMHPO
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <38159n$[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 06:50:36 GMT
Lines: 207

Okay I've annotated this with my comments. Please note that I am not a
lawyer and this is not to be taken as legal advice.  Both of my parents
have been freelance authors and publisher for abotu 30 yrs now, though,
so I kind  of grew up with the concept of Copyright (wonder why Kinkos
will no longer copy Copyrighted materials withotu a waiver?  Thats a
direct result of my parents agittaing through the writers group they
belong to, The American Society of Journalists and Authors, after they
discovered that Kinkos was actively ENCOURAGING professors in our
home-town (Madison, WI) to violate Copyright and run off copies of book
sections for their students...)


In article <38159n$[e-mail]>,
Wayne E Parillo <[e-mail]> wrote:
>Ok, I grabbed this when I was at the Jove ftp site.  The contents include
>a letter from TSR to the Administrator and reply.  The result has been
>that jove site no longer has AD&D stuff, and TSR can claim a victory.
>However, TSR should note that people on the Net tend to find ways around
>things, and as more ftp sites pop up, TSR is not going to be able to keep
>up with all of them.
>
>I would like to add that the above portion was my own opinion, and the
>jove ftp site had nothing to do with this, I'm must posting it for any
>interested Netters.
>
>
>
>Date:    Thu, 28 Jul 94 17:28:59 -0400
>From:    [e-mail]
>To:      [e-mail]
>Subject: TSR Copyrighted Material
>
>
>
>SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR:
>
>Your site was recently included in a list of noted FTP sites for DUNGEONS AND
>DRAGONS and ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS gaming material. You should be
>aware that DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS and all related marks and properties are
>copyrighted by TSR, Inc. of Lake Geneva, Wisconsin.
>
>You should also be aware that any items created without a specific license
>are infringements of TSR copyrights. Such items include (but are not
>limited to) any software, net.books, modules, tables, stories, or rules
>modifications which contain elements from our copyrighted properties,

Very true. This stuff should NOT be posted.

>including characters, settings, realm names, noted magic items, spells,

Only as such is lifted from a TSR publication, otherwise its BS.

>elements of the gaming system, such as ARMOR CLASS, HIT DICE, and so forth.

This is true if you are posting the to-hit table, either as printed in
their book or in a derivitive form.  If they mean this to mean putting AC
on a player or  judge generated character, its also BS.

>To date, TSR has not licensed any of these net publications.
>
>On behalf of TSR, Inc. I ask that you examine your public net sites at this
>time and remove any material which infringes on TSR copyrights.
>

Thats  reasonable, given the qualificatiosn above.

>Our intention is to find a way to license these and future creative efforts.
>In the meantime, remove them from your sites without delay.

Translate: Our intetnion is to find a way to pull a revenue stream out of
anything even remotely related to our products.  That may not be what
they mean, but that sure is how it reads...

>
>To clarify reasoning for this request, I recently posted the following policy
>statement to rec.games.frp.dnd:
>
>> As we have begun to explore the online community in depth, we've found many
>> avid gamers and fans.  We're interested in providing you with the best in
>> gaming products that meet our own standards of quality, as well as suiting
>> your needs and interests.  We know that many gamers develop campaigns and
>> other materials entirely for their own use.  We think this is great!
>> However, when gamers begin sharing their creations with the public, whether
>> for profit or not, they are infringing our rights.

Nonsense.

>> If we don't make an
>> earnest attempt to prevent this infringement of our trademarks and
>> copyrights, our ownership of these extremely valuable assets may be
>> jeopardized.
>>

BS.  If they don't make an attempt ot keep people from posting parts of
their books, or paraphrases there of, they might risk losing Copyright.
Independant creations taht contain no significant part of their work (and
the letters AC are NOT significant) are NOT within there Copyright to begin
with.

>> A gamer in this situation has a few options.  He can strip every TSR
>> trademark

Not a problem. Woudl you mind posting these in a list form, TSR?
(Also, under certain situations you CAn use another compasnies trademakr,
as long as it is well attributed.  I wouldn't swear to it, because
trademark law is something I am less verse in, but I THINK such statemts
as 'AD&D COmpatable' or 'an AD&D character' ARE legal as long as you
attribute the trademark back to TSR.  Comapnies mention each other in
advertising all the time.  Still, none of what I am saying is qualified
legal advice, and as I've already admitted Trademark law is not a stroing
point of mine (I DO have a book on such things by an intellectual
property law team around here somewhere, Ill see abotu digging it up.)

> and all copyright

This is a silly statement.  You don't strip 'copyright' you strip
copyrighted material out.  If you remove your own copyright line, then
you are weakening your own Copyright protection.  Thsi makes me wonder if
a lawyer actually wrote this thing.  They usually are ALOt more precise...

>> from his creations before
>> putting them in
>> public
>> (i.e. "genericize" the adventure). Or he can share his creations with the
>> public in a way that is licensed and approved by TSR. This is the more
>> desirable solution, as it protects our rights, and still leaves room for
>> gamers to share their creative expressions.

Okay TSR. As long as you aren't going to try and extort money, we'll be
happy to at least get your opinion on materials, wont we, people?

>>
>> Sometime very soon, we're going to create a place where gamers can legally
>> upload and share their creations, including modules, stories and software.
>> At
>> that time, I'd be happy to work with you to give your product a base to
>> work
>> from.  We are definitely interested in fostering goodwill among customers,
>> and we'd like to see our upcoming effort as a pilot project.

Umm. is this going to be a FREE ftp site, TSR? Runa t your own expense?
That might foster SOME goodwill.  I think SYSOPS will STILL want a way to
take approved material off your board to post locally and/or a way to
submit stuff for your approval.

If you are willing to do this all for free, i think the community is
probobly willing to help you make sure that such materials don't contain
your (legitimately) Copyright controlled materials.  Give your statemnts
above, though, you will have to go alot further to prove to us that you
are going to be reasonable and responsible about what you claim as
Copyright infringement.

>> Eventually, >> we
>> want gamers to be able to turn to TSR in cyberspace as easily as they do in
>> a
>> hobby store.
>

And pay money just like in a hobby store?
This is cool if its your work (a significant amount of your words from your
books, magazines, and other materials) this is UNCOOL if it is someone
elses (independantly created modules, charatcer sheets, etc as long as
those do not contain a significant amount of your verbage from one of
your publications.)

>Please feel free to contact me with comments or questions. I will refer any
>pertinent queries to our legal department as soon as I receive them.
>
>
>Rob Repp                           | InterNet: [e-mail]
>Manager, Digital Projects Group    | InterNet: [e-mail]
>TSR, Inc.                          | CompuServe: 76217,761
>__________________________________ | GEnie: TSR.Online  AOL: TSR Inc
>All opinions are my own, not TSR's | 414-248-3625    Fax [phone]

Okay Robb.  Above are my comments.

Add to them the following statement:
Copyright law was invented in order to protec authors works from
unauthorizeed duplication.  In the case of books it covers words, not ideas.
In addition the doctrine of 'fair use' allows use of the matrial in a
reasonable manner, coincident with the use for which the published work
was intended.

You have published a game.  Its use is the creation of characters and
modules. As long as such do NOT contain pararaphs or tables, lifted
directly or paraphrased, from your books, I doubt that it is Copyright
infringement.

I support your efforts IF they are truely to contain 'electronicm
piracy'.  If they are an attempt to control all materials in any
way related to AD&D, then they are ill concieved, grasping, and doomed to
failure in the first challenge.  In addition they wil win you no friends,
particularly in the older gamer community, who remember that we built
this thing for you from the original miniature-rule supplement it was.
Ofcourse, we older gamers ALSO control a disproportionate share of the
spending on RPG games...


Oh, lastly, a question: GEnie is also connected to the net, at least for
mail.  Since mpgnet is the 'sole internet' provider of copyrighted
materials, where does that levae GEnie and TSR-OnLine?


Jeff Kesselman