ftp.ee.pdx.edu/2014.02.ftp.ee.pdx.edu.tar/ftp.ee.pdx.edu/pub/Publius/info/uboat1.txt

Text File | 1995-02-28 | 122KB | 2,781 lines

-From [e-mail]  Mon Nov 14 19:19:40 1994
-To: [e-mail]

   Why is this called uboat?  There was once an argument about an
Echoes lyric, whether a word was "summery" or "submarine".  This
is not a summary, it's just a lightly edited concatenation of about
forty posts made since the first summary was done.  I just can't
find time to cut it down much, so you'll have to organize in your
own heads.  Uboat = slang for "unterseeboot", German submarine.


- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 19-SEP-1994 23:00 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Marooned clue

[e-mail] (MCADOO) said:

> ... noticed while reading one [Publius] post that the
> capitalized letters when put together, spelled "Marooned"
> ... I hadn't seen anyone write about it ...

> ... I am wondering what the general concensus(sp?) is on the
> entire Publius issue?

> ... if there IS a "central purpose and a designed solution" ...
> ... why are WE (alt.music.pink-floyd) the only ones to be told?

> ... I am willing to think about it, and to help solve the riddle
> but for now I remain skeptical.

>                                        ...Tim
>                                        [e-mail]

   Thanks for your interest.  The Marooned clue was noticed a while
back, but to my knowlege has not yet been fitted into a clear context.
(Be my guest!)  There seem to be other "word-game" clues in the Publius
posts, but they are quite ambiguous.  For example, the capitalized
phrase beginning a paragraph of a post, "AS SOME OF YOU HAVE SUSPECTED",
seems to me as if it can be read phonetically as, "Assume a few halves
expected", thus fitting into a division theme.  There are capitalized
words in the lyrics that draw one's attention, as well.

   Personally, I have played quite a bit with the idea that there's
some sort of traditional treasure hunt game, with an actual physical
trail to follow, at the end of all this preliminary investigation.

   General consensus -- this summer during the peak of the anti-Publius
posts, apparently the majority still felt that discussion of the enigma
should be tolerated.  The negative view was expressed loudly by the
minority, so much discussion went to private email.  I'm now sorry we
didn't continue putting more of our speculation in the newsgroup, even
if it's incomplete.  I'm to blame for some flaming, as some of my
posts were, to use a euphemism, flamboyantly speculative.  I at least
tried to be entertaining.

   As I hinted at the end of the history post, some folks from the
study group called the Publius Concern are trying to move discussion
back to the newsgroup.  We have accumulated quite a difficult mass to
organize, so I hope it doesn't overwhelm anyone.  My plan is to dump
my stuff in a few posts, with the idea of causing less disruption of
other discussion in the group.

   Is it BS?  Possibly, but a number of quite reasonable people have
decided either that it's probably legitimate, or at least has enough
of a chance of legitimacy to be worth the risk of embarrassment.

   But hey, being human, we are bound to embarrass ourselves on a
regular basis anyway, so what the heck!  Can't take yourself too
seriously all the time, eh?  Life is at best a risky endeavor.

   "To martyr yourself to caution/Is not going to help at all."

   Besides, paranoia is the ultimate conceit:  why should anyone
care enough about us to lay such complex plans to do us harm?

   In any event, it's a fun, creative, positive thing to do, and
certainly enhances the enjoyment of Pink Floyd for those who are
involved.  It's also teaching us to organize our thoughts a little
better, and I think that one side-effect of it will be a better
newsgroup.  In fact, maybe that's a deliberate effect.

   Why give a puzzle to this newsgroup?  Choose one:

 a) because we're fattened, gullible, silly geese who will hop
    right up on Eugene's chopping block and quack gleefully
    until, out of the corner of our vacant eyes, we catch the
    glint of the axe arcing downward.

 b) because a strong theme of TDB is communication, and as a group
    of PF fans with good communication resources, we may be able to
    work cooperatively and hone our communication skills enough to
    work together and progress synergistically.  Maybe.  It's quite
    a challenge to accept.  This game is not for the lazy.

   Your skepticism is a healthy reaction.

   So are curiosity and optimism, I think.  Keep Talking!

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 21-SEP-1994 19:45 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Marooned art

[e-mail] wrote:

> However, the shadow of the stone in the upper right corner points more
> upwards, and the shadows of the small stones in the lower part of the
> picture point more to the left.

> This effect is probably caused by a light, which is positioned a bit
> outside the lower right corner of the picture ...
> ... likely been made in a studio.

> I cannot think of any regular mathematical shape, that is formed by the
> stones.  But maybe, they represent towns or other points in a map?


   I looked at this art extensively a while back and my conclusions match
the points I've quoted here, except that I still think those are little
seashells instead of stones, because of their appearance and because that
fits better with whales and sand.

   It could have been shot outside, with a reflector in use maybe, but
a studio shot is more likely.  As you have surmised, the shadows seem
to indicate a light source close to the subject.

   I tried to match the arrangement to the well-known constellations
and failed.  With the idea of a map in mind, I tried to match it up
with the best maps of the Cambridge area I could find (not very good
ones) and came up empty.  I've also tried to match it up to groups of
islands, and tried a "connect-the-dots" strategy.  I tried looking at
the proportional distances between the seashells.  And yes, Don Hyde,
I looked for 3D imagery even though I figure that digital manipulation
would be required to embed that in a picture, which would give the
picture an obviously unnatural texture.

   One thing I didn't try yet, because it seems merely coincidence
rather than something that fits in, is to match the "map" up to a
map of Wales. (A "map of whales" pun, as it were.)  I see no other
clues pointing to Wales, whereas other clues seem to use duplication
and redundancy to confirm themselves.

   My best guess is that it points out places in the Cambridge area
that are of more interest to us than to cartographers.  I figure that
maybe you start from some point on this "map" and use it to supplement
clues to be found at that first location, pointing to the next spot.

   I think there's a compass in the TDB booklet -- can you find it?
I'll post about it eventually.  As of now, I can't make it work
consistently throughout.  But to "Orient yourselves a first time" as
Publius suggests, it can be deduced from the TDB booklet (and even
more easily from the concert tour booklet) that the steel heads are
east of Ely's cathedral (by observing the shadows).  A number of the
locations mentioned in the lyrics are also visible in the cd and tour
booklets and the art with the single cds.

   Regarding "shifting sands" and "bloodied hands":  I see a weak
reference to this artwork's medium and color scheme.  It may well
refer to other things that I can't see yet.

   Because of the strong imagery of the sea and shore in the music
of Marooned as well as this bit of art, the Cambridge idea might be
better replaced by some other location that has to do with water.
I guess I don't see a strong connection to the following song, with
reference to [your] Berlin Wall/arabian desert ideas.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 22-SEP-1994 19:35 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: phone number speculation

Posted on behalf of [e-mail] (Jessica Slavinski)

> I just tried the 011-44-233-301000 number and I got an answering
> machine.  The message on the machine was (an English female voice):
> "Sorry no one is here to take your call but don't hang up.  Leave a
> message and someone will get back to you."

> I don't know if this is worth posting but if you think it is, could
> you do that for me?  I'm at work and the way that the readers are set
> up is that I don't have the access to post.

> What is your take on all this?

> Jessie

   Ah, well, maybe it'll make sense later.  I really went for the idea
of a U.K. phone number, but as I noted, that left me with no place for
the zero derived from High Hopes, so maybe there's a U.S. number there.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 28-SEP-1994 22:10
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Ely Cathedral area

[e-mail] (Adam Woolfe) emailed to me:

> Hi Mark,

>   I've just started looking at the PF bulletin board and was intrigued
> by this Publius thing. It sounds like a wind-up to me - the music
> techies I know are *just* the sort of people to do something like
> this! But you never know. Anyway I'm a big Floyd fan and was very
> interested by the Cambridge references in TDB because I live and work
> in the university. In particular the references to Adams, Hawking and
> magnets (which I use in *my* physics research) all made me sit up and
> take notice far more than MLOR ever did. For your (and the world's)
> information I'd like to correct a few things you were thinking out
> loud in your post of a couple of days ago (I'm going through it in
> order) :

> 1) You say that the back cover statues are *probably* the same as the
> ones on the front. Well I say they *definitly* are - and in the same
> place as the front ones (only photographed at night) cos you can see
> that the tufts of straw on the ground are in the same place.

    There's something else that seems conclusive.  On the night-time
photo I see streaks going down from the right corner of the mouth of the
right-hand statue, and more of the same sort of streaks to the lower
right of that.  On the front day-time picture, the streaks aren't fully
airbrushed out, and they match the night picture.

> 2) A long one....

>  About the position which you reckoned was more or less east of Ely.
> Well, you were close. I was bored a while back and went up to Ely to
> see if the statues were still there. I found the field where the cover
> and TIB pictures were taken which is in fact near a village called
> Stuntney, about 2 miles south east of Ely cathedral. Its difficult to
> be absolutely certain I was in the right place because there are no
> nearby landmarks on the photos except trees which are currently
> difficult to identify due to their leaves! However, I am certain I was
> at the correct bearing - the pattern the pinacles on the cathedral
> make gives a very accurate position - to within a couple of feet, even
> 2 miles away. Also the skyline of trees and buildings was identical.
> The place where the statues would have been was at the far end of a
> cabbage field so I didn't want to upset any farmers by having a closer
> inspection, but they seemed to have gone. I can't be sure because
> there were a few uprooted trees at the spot and they might conceivably
> be hiding the statues. Behind the spot was a small rectangular copse
> and more fields.

>  I stuck to a track which was a couple of feet above the surrounding
> fields and lined with small trees down one edge, perhaps 20 feet
> apart. The banner holding men seem to be on this track and the TIB
> tree seems to be on the edge but I couldn't identify it when I looked.
> This confused me alot because there was only one tree on the track
> with the correct bearing to the cathedral and it appeared to have the
> wrong the trunk shape. Perhpas the TIB tree was really alot further
> forward or something??  You say this tree is also on the front cover -
> I can't really see it. Do you think it's the one on the far left? I
> don't think this could be the case because the cathedral looks
> identical in both pictures indicating that the TIB tree would have to
> be between the mouths, ie where the 4 lights are.

   I do think that the T.I.B. tree is the one farthest to the left at
the edge of the U.S. cd front cover.  It's too small to tell in that
little photo, but a couple of larger pictures in the concert booklet
convince me of it.

>  The photos were presumably taken around the same time that PF were
> filmimg in Cambridge (February-ish) hence the lack of leaves, and this
> also supports your sunrise shadow idea - the sun *does* rise in the
> south east in winter here. I haven't seen any video footage shot in
> Cambridge yet, although noted that it appears in the unreleased(?) HH
> video.

   No, actually I'm pretty sure the sun does not rise from Southeast.
I'll get into that discussion with your 8th point.
[=> I was wrong about that:  see later post correcting it. -- mb,11/94]

   I'm not sure what the official HH release date is.  The MTV premiere,
I would say, should have been called a preview.

> 3) The river Cam doesn't flow through Ely but it is a tributary of the
> Great Ouse which runs approximtly from left-right on the cover photo,
> half way to the cathedral (ie N-W of the statues).

   I had another look at the MTV 30-minute special last night and I see
that what looks like the Great Ouse is prominent in High Hopes.

> 4) The Long Road is I'm sure a reference to the road in Cambridge on
> which is situated the city's biggest school. I don't know if David
> went there? I'm not sure about the Causeway (and you didn't mention
> Wort's Causeway near to Long Road) or the Cut (no idea!).

   Roger Keith (Syd) Barrett and Roger Waters attended the Morley
Memorial Junior School on Hills Road.  Syd, Roger, Tim Renwick, and
Storm Thorgerson attended the High School For Boys on Hills Road, while
David Gilmour attended a private school, The Perse, also on the same
road.  In 1962, Syd began a two-year arts program at the College of
Arts & Technology, and in 1963, David joined him there to take modern
language A-levels -- they played guitar together on their lunch breaks.

> 5) Cambridge University has the biggest radio telescope array in the
> country.

   After seeing the video again, I'd say that the two dishes I mentioned
may well be radio astronomy dishes rather than television dishes.  Also,
I wrongly stated that they appear in High Hopes in the last aerial shot.
They're in Take It Back at the end of an early sequence, but not in the
last aerial footage.  Sorry -- I don't keep a TV in the office to refer
to.  :-)

> 6) The Grantchester Meadows are adjacent to the city.

> 7) Hawking works in the Dept of Applied Maths and Theoretical Physics
> in Cambridge centre, not the experimental Cavendish Lab where I (and
> the magnets!) are.

   I knew that as a theoretician, Hawking would not literally be in a
lab with magnets.  However, as a student, he would have spent time in
several labs, and in general, the lyrical reference in High Hopes would
make sense to the non-physicists who wrote it (Gilmour/Samson) and to
the public.

> 8) Your compass ideas don't seem to work to well. The TIB camera angle
> is close to due north so the head is facing east.


[=> Re: next paragraphs: see later post correcting directions -- mb,11/94]
   I see one case where I definitely erred, but I regret that I must
argue some before I concede your 8th point.  Assuming that you were
talking about the page-number head for Take It Back, I made a fresh
examination of the photos in the cd and concert booklets.  I still
think the little TIB head is looking generally North, actually more
toward the Northeast, perhaps, based on the following reasoning:

   a) Roughly speaking, since I don't know the exact latitudes, I think
      that the sun never rises as far South as due East there even at
      the beginning of winter.  It'll be much farther South during the
      day, but still only a few degrees South of East in early morning.

   b) The photos were reportedly shot in February, about half-way
      winter, so the sun must rise farther North, in the Northeast,
      reaching due East some short time after sunrise.

   c) The front cover of the concert booklet has a picture of the steel
      heads soon after dawn (based on the lighting of Ely Cathedral and
      the heads themselves) when the sun must be very near to due East.
      In that photo, the long shadows of the statues are directly in
      back of them, with the shadows centered under the cathedral.  So,
      the cathedral must have been very nearly due West of the statues.

   d) The TIB tree is a bit left of the heads.  Using rough estimates
      of the distance to the tree and to the cathedral, I diagrammed the
      scene with the compass directions as above.

   e) Looking again at the TIB art, I conclude that the page number
      head, by facing to the right, is facing generally North --
      actually probably a few degrees East of North.

   As I said, I do see a case where I clearly erred.  The page number
head with the Marooned art must be facing Southwest or West.  It's a bit
ambiguous, but it's not North as I said in my last post.  I was just too
tired to avoid a mistake, I guess.

> 9) I like your idea that Hawking is a major theme of TDB - it hadn't
> occurred to me. But didn't I read somewhere that the music had all
> been recorded before his involvement and his 'voice' was only added
> after someone heard it on a commercial (which was shown around a year
> ago).

   I don't want to be dogmatic, claiming that he's the only theme, but
I do claim that thoughts about him influenced the lyrics.  I don't know
exactly when they were written, but as I see it, the lyrics might have
made reference to Hawking even before they heard his television quote.
He is a famous figure from their home town, and a lot of the album makes
references to that town, so it seems quite natural to me that PF would
notice how his life story resonates with their theme of communication.

>  I didn't post this to the board because I haven't got round to
> finding out how do anything except read things so far! Also I wasn't
> sure how much is original/ relevant so I'll leave it to your
> discretion to post anything you think may be of interest. If you have
> any questions concerning Cambridge I'll be happy to answer them.

   Questions about Cambridge?  Many of them, probably.  One that pops
into my head right now:  What is the building shown in the High Hopes
video behing the upset apple cart, while the lyric about magnets and
miracles is sung?  Perhaps you have no way to see the video, though.
My guess was that the building might have a Hawking connection.

>   Bye,

>          Adam Woolfe.

   I'll add a bit more here on the High Hopes video, since it's fresh
in my mind.  If you have a good copy of it, in the opening scene I
think you can see the old green car parked in the distance, with the
actor beside it.  They don't appear in closeup until [a little] later.

   In some scenes you can see that the actor and the car are parked at
a sharp curve in the road.  Perhaps there it begins to run parallel to
the deep ditch just in front of the car.  That must be the Great Ouse
farther away toward the town of Ely.

   Speaking of Ely, the few references I have at the office say that the
area was formerly called Cambridgeshire and the Isle of Ely (by the way,
Ely apparently rhymes with ee-lee, not ee-lie).  The "isle" part seems
to resonate with "marooned", at least a little, eh?

Keep Talking,
Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 30-SEP-1994 08:40
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Ely directions I used in file summary.1 and newer postings

     My apologies are due -- I need to adjust my directional
clues from this week's posts.

     I screwed up by asking an astronomy student some questions
instead of doing some simple research myself, and we had a problem
with communication.

     So, I screwed up on the direction of sunrise in February.  It's
farther South than I thought, so I'll have to see how close I can pin
it down and then rotate some of my direction answers clockwise.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 16-OCT-1994 20:35
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Ely directions I used in file summary.1 and newer postings

[e-mail] (Randy Haler) wrote:

> ... orientation of the statues and the direction in which the eyes
> are looking.  Did that get resolved to everyone's satisfaction?

   Randy, I originally posted that I thought, based on shadows, that
the statues were east of Ely Cathedral.  However, I think it's well
established that I was wrong, so the directions I gave in my summary
(available from echoserver) need to be rotated clockwise somewhat.
I just haven't gotten around to posting about it -- been looking at
other things the last few weeks.

   So, yes, I think it's resolved that the statues face southeast.

   What puzzles me now is the Publius statement:

> There is much more to this enigma than just
> a castle and field in England!

   Does the cathedral count as a castle, or do I need one of those
along with everything else I'm missing so far?  Anyway, I've done
as much with Cambridgeshire and London locations as I can and am
trying to move on.  I still harbor the notion that the seashells in
the Marooned artwork might be map locations, but so far it's just a
notion.

   Randy, you wrote to me about 8 days ago about organizing all this
inquiry.  Publius has said several times that the key is organized
communication, but so far I just don't see how to do that any better
using the available time and communications resources.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 28-SEP-1994 22:35
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: location of discussion

[e-mail] (Fournelle Francis) [said:]
Subject: PUBLIUS case (Kinda speculations 'bout it)..

> ... We should be talking, exchanging information. Instead, a
> little clique has formed. Some initiated exclude themselves and formed
> a group of e-mailers. Besides Mark, I have never seen a post from all
> those people Publius mentionned in his posts ...

    Actually, we only had in mind to improve communications, not to
form a clique.  The biggest problem for me in getting back to discussion
in the newsgroup is to summarize past work -- I suppose I'd have had to
do that eventually even if I'd only worked in the newsgroup.  As for the
people you mentioned, the first two were mentioned by Publius as people
who had written to him directly.  [Others had made comments to the echoes
Pink Floyd mailing list.] The others have posted quite a bit, and they're
probably busy thinking or just busy at something else at the present.

> ... About the scrambled messages ... I made an attempt to decrypt it
> ... I'm not sure it really is a code.

    I'm not good enough with numbers to easily follow your analysis.  My
own hunch, upon seeing that the scrambled posts were different, was that
they were merely a mail problem.  After 3 in a row were posted, I thought
they must be symbolic, but not coded.  I don't grasp the symbolism yet.

> ... I don't know how it relate to the enigma, but Mark seemed
> (well, in  his speculations), interrested in whales. Well, seems like

    In the cd booklet and concert booklets, there is artwork of two
whales facing each other, done in red sand on an orange sand background.
There are several small seashells placed between and around the whales.
This art is for Marooned, which has seashore sounds in it (and by the
way, some wailing sound effects from Echoes, too).

> ... Talking about satellite dish: There's one (or like) beetween
> the two faces of the pictures of pole apart.

    Yeah, I guess it could look like that.  I usually see these two
faces as one face -- a smiling pig.

>     A last thing: I was thinking about an IRC conference. Would
> some people be interrested in joining in a channel, someday, to discuss
> the Publius clues, etc.. ?  We could set up a date, and record the
> conversation to post it to those who couln't access IRC but wanna be
> informed of what's been discussed.
>
> Edger Livewire [e-mail]

    There is a Pink Floyd IRC, and I hope someone who's familiar with
it will contact you.  I probably could IRC from here, but I don't think
I could deal with it as easily as mail (not that that's always easy!).

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 6-OCT-1994 14:00 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re:  PUBLIUS: The Case Against (MTV quote)

In "PUBLIUS: The Case Against", Matt Denault wrote:

> The statements made on the MTV special were even more to the point;
> unfortunately, my copy is in Massachusetts, and I'm in California ;)
> But they were to the effect that the band chose various pieces of
> art because they were visually interesting, and not because they had
> any deep meaning.

    Here's the quote you needed.  It wasn't identified, but I think
it's Rick Wright.  It's a voice-over for concert film footage that
was used to introduce the MTV High Hopes video premiere:

   "It is correct that most lyrics and a lot of visuals should be left
for the viewer or listener to interpret in their own way, and because
quite often they are abstract ideas, there is not a specific meaning.
What they mean perhaps isn't that important really, it's how striking
they are."


    That was a really good post, Matt, and I thank you for raising the
level of discourse from the usual "Publius makes me sick and angry".
I hope to find time this weekend to respond with the careful attention
that your words deserve.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 6-OCT-1994 19:05
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Is there a Publius FAQ

Andrew T Robinson,
[e-mail], rose from his sickbed to
         ^^^^^^
         squeak,  er, I mean speak, thusly:

> This Guitar World thing is great for our group as a whole ...
> ... BUT ... a whole bunch of newbies will becoming out and ... go
> over basic FAQ stuff, plus (which is why Im writing this) Publius
> things, like how the heads look like Eastern Islands stuff, etc.

> Could someone make (or add on) a FAQ for Publius, especially
> covering subjects we already gone over concerning this.


    Perhaps you missed the notices mentioning that a history of the
basic events and ideas can be had from the echoserver.  It would be fine
with me if Matt Denault's "The Case Against" was in there too.  But, ...

    Having a FAQ ready doesn't prevent some newbies and lazy veterans
from asking Frequently Asked Questions or from cheerfully volunteering
the wrong answers to them, so I don't think that a Publius FAQ would
help much, even if someone knowledgeable wanted to take time away from
an enjoyable investigation to do it.

    Besides, since it would contain a lot of opinion along with the
bits of immutable truth usually found in a FAQ, it would be out of
date the instant after it was created.  The thinking of the Publius
investigators continues to evolve.

    Sorry to bring bad news, but there will always be ants at the
picnic.  Entomologists need to earn a living too, eh?

    For your Momentary re-Lapse, instead of taking excessive amounts
of aspirin and Wearing your Insides Out, four out of five Floydians
recommend frequent doses of Pink Floyd music (for aural use only).
Pretty soon you'll be Coming Back To Life and On The Run again.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: Lost in thought and lost in time
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 04:30:33 GMT

     Our thoughts strayed constantly and without boundary
       The ringing of the division bell had begun   -- High Hopes

          Every year is getting shorter
            never seem to find the time
          Plans that either come to nought
            or half a page of scribbled lines.   -- Time

   As I've mentioned before, the definition of a Division Bell given
in the FAQ may hint at a time clue for us -- the bell is rung in the
Houses of Parliament to call members to the chamber, and they must
gather before the bell ceases to toll and the doors are closed.

   The Houses of Parliament have been on summer recess until now, and
have just resumed or are about to.  Also, the Division Bell World Tour
is ending at the end of the month, so that bell will cease tolling.

   Another few time clues, perhaps:

   The TDB cd artwork for TIB, the TDB concert program, and the disc
of the EMI version of the TIB single feature a picture of a small,
bare tree, which might symbolize autumn in Cambridgeshire as a time
to Take It Back.  The U.S. version of the TIB disc is imprinted with
a white pattern like that on the TDB disc.  It reminds me of a snow-
flake, and that would be appropriate for much of the U.S. in late
October.  The Australian TIB disc is plain red -- it's warm or hot in
much of Australia in late October.

   The pattern that I call a snowflake is printed in red on a spruce-
green background on the U.S. TDB disc, and I think also on the EMI
version of TDB.  That, and the ornamental mirror ball illustrating
What Do You Want From Me, remind me of Christmas.




                     A Saucerful of Secrets?

   In the Publius post of July 24, there's the following:


>    I will also provide some new data to work with:

>    My friends

>    * A recipe for a solution

>    Review the division bell material

>    Orient yourselves a first time, then

>    Open your minds again a second time to truly move ahead

>    Notice everything that has been presented

>    since all the necessary Evidence has been supplied

>    Direct yourselves with communication


>    : and two more -


>    Leading the blind while I stared out the steel in your eyes
>    (this clue has already been posted, but has not yet been
>     thoroughly addressed)

>    A question: what exactly is a division bell and where could
>    this lead your thoughts?



   I point out to the attention of those who posted about the WWII
British mechanical code-breaker, the Enigma, that the line:

>   : and two more -

starts with dots and ends with a dash.  This, plus the scrambled posts
from Publius (see the history available from the echoserver) may be
hints that there's a code to be found and broken.  I believe that would
be beyond my poor talents, so I hope someone who is inclined in this
direction will follow it up.




                    What Door You Want From Me?

   I've posted recently about several anagrams that can be derived from
capitalized letters in the above-quoted portion of the post from Publius
on July 24,  i - m - a - r - o - o - n - e - d - l - a,  and there is
another interesting one I'll mention now:

                    >>>    an Email door    <<<

   What was that Aldous Huxley book from several decades back -- The
Doors of Perception?  Those doors are stuck for me.  I'm not getting
anywhere by counting doors and bells looking for an internet address,
which as I believe would be of the format 123.456.78.90.  By the way,
someone else sees a possible lyrical reference to the World Wide Web,
which I've never used.

   I see a lot of doors, but some are ambiguous to count.  For the CO
art, do double doors count as 1 or 2?  What about the double door in
the middle where you can really only see one of the two?  Do the left
observatory's telescope slit and the openings of the two white trash
cans count as doors?  The CO door count comes to 6, or 8, or 9; and it
would be different on the EMI cd, which I'm told shows 4 observatories.

   I thought about eyes as being doors to the mind, then remembered
that the saying is more like, "the eyes are the windows of the soul."

   The next door, possibly, is on what sounds to me like a London bus
in the PA sound-clip, with the little ding-ding of the "stop" cord.
A large bell begins tolling after the whistling, and tolls 5 times
before the "ding-ding" and once afterwards.

   Then there's the WtIO artwork door, which to me does appear to be
upside down (thanks to Kelley Rogers for noticing it) and seems to be
without an inside knob or latch, which I find rather intriguing.

   Durdle Door is next, the location for the illustration of CBTL.

   The next one is the slamming door in the beginning of LFW.  Seven
steps to get up to it, and one silent step (presumably) to go through.
In the boxing match sound-clip, I hear a ding-ding for Round Two, but
can't count the rings made by that bell while the referee announces the
winner.  By the way, I hear it as "winner, by a knock-out" and I hear an
echo on just the word "knock" so that it comes out "Ladies and gentlemen,
the winner by a knock-knock out" -- another door reference, I think.

   In the lyrics of LFW, there are three direct door references:  "the
Right One walks out of the door", "ivy grows over the door", and "open
my door to my enemies".  There may be something subterranean, and even
cavelike -- "tunnel" vision, "beat your fists on the floor" (does it
sound hollow, like a trap-door in the floor?).

   There are too many bells to count in HH, and no doors that I see.




          And with these words I can see ...
          ... Now we can hear ourselves again   -- WtIO

   My newest crazy idea:  Matt Denault mailed to Echoes about making
recordings that use a selection of cuts from Roger's solo work and
the newer Pink Floyd songs.  Erik Nielsen actually made such a tape
a month ago and posted to Echoes about it.  So, I thought to myself,
what if PF had written an instrumental that fits right on top of a new
Waters song?  That'd be in keeping with a division-and-union theme,
wouldn't it?  So, when I can, I'm going to see if any of Roger's songs
from ATD fit when played simultaneously with Cluster One.  Probably
won't work, I know.  I don't figure that Marooned would work -- it's
too spontaneous and free-form.  Even though the chaotic static in the
Cluster One intro may be a nod to Roger's Radio Kaos, what I remember
from that album probably wouldn't work.  I'm not as familiar with ATD,
so I'm a bit hopeful.

   I see the television in the artwork for WtIO as a possible reference
to Roger's Amused To Death, and the man on the inside back cover of the
TDB cd booklet as a symbol that Roger Waters's presence is still felt,
even though he has taken a separate path.  Notice that in the High Hopes
video, the three fellows "at a higher altitude with flag[s] unfurled"
release their pennants, as if allowing their dreams to fly freely; but
the black-caped figure's progress against the wind is impeded by his
"dark vision", which he does not release.  It's just one interpretation.

Keep Talking!

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 4-OCT-1994 23:20 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd

[e-mail] (Margaret Aredondo) wrote:

[About the referee counting out a boxer in Lost For Words ... ]
> Wow!  I can't hear any of it.  Where is it timing wise? About 3:10?

    On my copy, the count begins at 2:56 and the referee says,
"4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 6, 5 ... The winner, by a knock-out ..."

    The "6" sounds a lot like "7" to me sometimes, and all the time,
I'm sure I can hear an echo or a repeat of the word "knock", so it
comes out "knock-knock".  And incidentally, just before the count you
may be able to hear footsteps that resemble those on the Dark Side
of the Moon -- the song On The Run, is it?

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: Sun, 9 Oct 1994 06:29:09 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: The Case Against (rebuttal)

[e-mail] (Matt Denault) wrote in
PUBLIUS: The Case Against:

> ... I've never supported the idea of a "designed solution"
> ... the evidence as I see it points to the conclusion that this
> is the very fact that Publius has been trying to make clear.

   You may be right.  I'll give the bottom line first:  you cite a lot
of evidence, but I believe your position is founded on opinion, as
is mine, and that the evidence can be interpreted both ways.  In the
end, it all boils down to how much credit you give to the validity of a
message from the stage on July 18:  ENIGMA PUBLIUS in flashing lights,
as predicted by a Publius message.

   There is no doubt that the message occurred.  No proof has been given
that anything like it appeared before or since.  It's really too bad we
don't know more about this crucial event, but my guess is that we're not
likely to find out more.  If it really was just a "hack", there are some
possible reasons for Pink Floyd to keep quiet about it:  they wouldn't
want to inspire any repeats, and they prefer to deal with the press at
the times they choose, dealing with the subjects they choose.

   But, based on satisfactory proof that there was a message, I reasoned
that although it might eventually prove to be false, there really was
little to lose by being optimistic and proceeding on the assumption that
the enigma is legitimate, and that Publius is really a messenger from
Pink Floyd or the band's organization; and that a lot might be gained.

   I know this amounts to not much more than reassurance to those who
have made the same leap of faith that I did.  It's as if I am writing
editorially: "Yes, Virginia, there really is a Publius."

   Matt is pretty unhappy with Publius's seemingly pompous choice of
words.  Well, I was offended by Publius at first, thinking that some nut
was offering us unwanted guidance.  However, I know just how hard it can
be to communicate an idea that everyone wants to hear, let alone one
that nobody wants to know about.  Trying to write about a secret so as
to give some clues -- but not too many -- just adds difficulty to the
task.  It's not so easy to write while trying not to reveal anything
about yourself, either.  All in all, I was willing to set aside my
qualms about Publius's writing style after the signal from the stage.

   Whether you like his manner of writing or not, all Publius asked was
for us to open our minds to the possibility that we'd missed something
about The Division Bell.  I figured I knew that album as well as anyone,
perhaps better than most.  I'd read the lyrics and looked at the art,
and listened to it a lot in the three months or so since it came out;
but as soon as I did so again, with the idea that there was more, I
found more -- lots more.  Within several days after the signal, I saw
that there were some aspects of this album that had escaped my feeble
perception, and that of everyone whose posts I'd read on the subject.

   So, I figured, what's to lose?  The investigation would be its own
reward, whether or not the prize offered was real.  My enjoyment of
Pink Floyd was being enhanced by pursuing the enigma.  That was, after
all, why I subscribed to the newsgroup in the first place.  If Publius
was having me on, then the joke would be on him as much as on me.  He
could not make a fool of me -- I've always been a self-made man.  :-)

   Furthermore, much of the discussion going on then didn't seem to be
appropriate for a fans' forum.  There was a lot of argument about the
biographical elements in the lyrics.  That view was okay, even if trite,
but it bothered me that it was frequently being used as an excuse for
yet more puerile Roger versus Dave arguments.  I could see deeper things
-- not that I claim to see it all, or even understand what I see.

   Publius said we'd speculated on the past and found nothing, which I
saw as generally true -- almost no one was looking at TDB on any other
level.  Publius was also saying that we'd have to open our minds and
communicate with each other, and that the puzzle required expertise
about Pink Floyd.  As far as I could see, it would greatly improve the
state of things in the newsgroup if people had some incentive to study
the materials available and communicate with a worthy goal, rather than
making futile claims that one bandsman deserves more credit than others.

   So, I wrote to John Take on July 30:

> The more people I can get involved with the album, and the more
> positive change I can make to their followers in cyberspace, the
> better will be the enjoyment for Pink Floyd and all their friends ....
> It's worth the gamble to me if it raises the level of communication
> in alt.music.pink-floyd, I hope permanently.

   Obviously I began with the intention of using the pursuit of this
enigma to promote my own agenda.  I realize that some people won't like
that, but I've hardly been secretive about it.  If you've read many of
my posts, you'll already have realized that, and I hope it's obvious
that my intentions are altruistic.  I don't think they're a conceit.

   Speaking of that, I am fond of saying that paranoia is the ultimate
conceit.  That is, we might be giving ourselves too much credit by
making the assumption that someone would go to so much trouble to lay
out a very complex plan to harm the newsgroup.  Are we that important
to Publius?  Only comic strip heroes have genius arch-enemies, I say.

   I apologize for having used ninety lines by way of mere opening
statement.  Is anyone still awake?  On to the nuts and bolts stuff --
to try to answer some of Matt's points more directly.

M> From the first post...

P> You have heard the message Pink Floyd has delivered,
P> but have you listened?
P> Listen.
P> Read.
P> Think.
P> Communicate.

M> Do you need someone to tell you what *the* correct interpretation
M> of an album is?  Do you need someone to tell you that you should
M> *think*?  I hope not...

   Essentially, Matt, what you and I are both doing is telling people
what we think they should think.  If it's a sin to do that, then heaven
must be a desolate and lonely place.  Even the FAQ contains a collection
of many peoples' informed opinions as well as verified facts, so I'd say
that your position on that is as shaky as Katherine Hepburn sitting on a
paint shaker during a major earthquake.

   I claim that you are really just offended by Publius's writing style,
and that your animus has caused you to miss his point.  He's telling
people not to take for granted what they've heard in this forum, but to
examine the evidence and think for themselves about TDB.

P> ... "The Division Bell" is not like its predecessors. Although all
P> great music is subject to multiple interpretations, in this case
P> there is a central purpose and a designed solution ...

M> What's important to note here is that this goes against *everything*
M> that the band members have said, in printed interviews, on the MTV
M> premiere of "High Hopes," etc. For example, from a recent interview ...

DG> But all that I read from people working out what they think it's
DG> about has been either fairly or wildly inaccurate.  I enjoy that.
DG> I'm quite happy for people to interpret it any way they like.  But
DG> maybe a note of caution should be sounded because you can read too
DG> much into it.

   Hey, Matt, if Dave enjoys our silly interpretations and is content
to have us try, who are you to deny him that simple pleasure?  :-)
Aren't *you* the one going against what Dave said there, by not being
"happy for people to interpret it any way they like?"  By the way,
Dave's next sentences, which you didn't quote, may put his "note of
caution" in a more revealing context:

DG> much into it.  "A Great Day for Freedom," for example, has got
DG> nothing to do with Roger or his "wall."  It just doesn't.  What
DG> else can I say?

   Notice that Dave said essentially the same as Publius:  that we fans
shouldn't assume that the lyrics are merely biographical.  I emphasize
that both of them are saying that speculation is fun and okay, and it
looks to me like both Dave and Publius caution against limiting the
interpretation to the same old stale possibilities.

M> The statements made on the MTV special were even more to the point
M> ... they were to the effect that the band chose various pieces of
M> art because they were visually interesting, and not because they
M> had any deep meaning.

   Yes, in fact it was said that for both lyrics and visuals, there is
often not a specific meaning, and that each person should interpret
them in their own way.  However, there's a lot of room there for me to
wiggle around in to make my particular case.  The statement is about
*most* imagery, which *quite often* is abstract, which *perhaps* is not
all that important.

   After discussing the changes made mid-stream and at the last minute
to The Division Bell, you said:

M> ... it seems very dubious that there is a "central purpose" and a
M> "designed solution" in an album who's composition was so fluid.

   Again, those changes are open to an interpretation that suits me
just as well.  If there is in fact a puzzle, I'm sure that a lot of the
details might have needed changes to suit that aspect of the album, so
as to not mislead, or perhaps to intentionally mislead or conceal.

P> To validate the trust of those who believe, as well as to reconcile
P> the doubt of others, I have gone to great lengths to plan the
P> following display of communication:

M> Gives something away here, perhaps: "...gone to great lengths..."
M> If Publius was operating with the band's knowledge, would "great
M> lengths" be required to flash a brief message?  I think not...

   Of course, you don't really know what would be involved.  He didn't
tell us, and I'm sure Pink Floyd won't.  Besides, the execution wasn't
the only part of the planning.  If there is a real puzzle, they would
have had to decide what kind of signal might be appropriate and just
when to do it, etc.  Obviously easier than if it was a hack, but ...

M> ... Publius might simply be a lighting technician or the like ...
M> [in] the MLoR-era interviews with Dave, he states that the lighting
M> personnel have a fair amount of independence, if they want ...

D> The guy running the lights is able to be artistic if he wants to, or
D> at least different every night...

   This has been discussed pretty well.  You can speculate that someone
might risk one of the best jobs in the world by screwing around, but I
find it at least as fantastic as my worst speculation.

P>    Your newfound persistence has paid off and, in turn, let me
P> provide a few more hints to orient your research.  Though the
P> newsgroup discourse is generally moving in a positive direction,
P> examine in particular the posts of Matt Denault, mcginni, John Take
P> and Evan Coyne Maloney for helpful clues.  Well done people!

M> Thanks ;)  As I recall, my only post to the newsgroup about Publius
M> at that point had said we should ignore the whole thing.  So make of
M> Publius' praise what you will.

   Publius mentioned you on July 24.  Four days earlier, you made an
Echoes post that you have forgotten that clarifies things quite a bit.
It's in digest 242 -- refer to that for the complete version.  This is
part of it that Publius might have wanted us to look at:

M> ... I think TDB is in many ways a sequel conceptually to MLoR. It
M> seems to continue and extend many of the themes (doubt, uncertainty,
M> bad relationships, lost dreams, etc. ...
M> But I think, just from the tone/wordings of his/her messages, that
M> what Publius has in mind is somewhat different.  TDB is not like
M> other Floyd albums, our anonymous friend says.  Personally, I'm
M> inclined to take note of the many artwork differences in the various
M> versions of the album, the page numbers writen in different languages,
M> the "G-d"...stuff like that. ...
M> "Publius" was the name ... used to anonymously write articles for the
M> Federalist Papers -- essays in support of the Constitution. ...
M> But regardless of [the annoyance with Publius that Matt expressed on
   the newsgroup due to the many flames Publius's messages had inspired]
M> as bear and others have said, there's a game afoot, and it involves
M> PF, so I'm game... ;)
M> But can we please ease off on the "is Publius legit?" posts -- in the
M> end, what does it really matter?

   That was a couple of hours prior to the mcginni letter to Echoes
about the use of Publius's name by America's founding fathers.  He said
he hadn't posted to the newsgroup.  I searched for his name in the
newsgroup back then in case someone else posted it there with his name,
and did not find it.  Therefore, we can assume Publius looked at Echoes
for July 20 and saw your post there.

   On July 23, the day before Publius mentioned you, you said in the
newsgroup:

M> Just a thought about the whole Publius thing and how to handle it...
M> Can people discussing Publius, his/her identity, message, etc.,
M> please inlude the word "PUBLIUS" in the subject header.  That way,
M> people who don't want to read these posts can just put this word in
M> their kill file.  This seems, IMHO, a better alternative than trying
M> to ban discussion on something that obviously many want to discuss,
M> but which a similarly large number find annoying.

   I haven't searched for it elsewhere, but whatever post you made in
which you say that we should all ignore the whole thing did not find
its way into my collection.

   In your recent post, you quote the letter from Dan Amrich (about
whether the record company was cognizant of the situation) and by a
train of thought that I don't follow you say:

M> So this leaves the thought that Publius is someone within the band.

   If you mean:  the final thought to be argued about is this one, or
if you mean: this is a logical assumption to be arrived at from reading
Dan's letter; then either way I don't understand.  I can only say that
after seeing Dan Amrich's letter, I still see other possibilities that
support my position, including the basic idea that Publius is one or
more people sent by the band.

   You also quote the letter from Douglas Adams, in which he says he
knows nothing about it, and says:

DA> ... this secret message stuff is just blah.

   It was nice to hear from one of our favorites, but all he actually
had for us is one more opinion from someone who doesn't know for sure.
Mr. Adams, kind Sir, if this finds it way to you, we would appreciate
any word, definitive or otherwise, that you can relay from our mutual
friends, Pink Floyd.  We send our highest regards and best wishes.

   Matt, you quote a lot of Publius's words which can be interpreted to
mean that the whole thing is a joke, and that there is no central theme.
I don't mind acknowledging that the Publius posts are ambiguous.  As you
well know, I'm fond of word games and don't mind self-deprecatory humor.
I think my own Publius clues that work against my case are even better
than the ones you found.  Here are a few, just based on one post -- it's
the portion immediately after the Publius reference to your posts -- from
which I get the capital letters:

I - M - A - R - O - O - N - E - D - L - A.

   If you just take the word "marooned" to play with, one anagram is
"read Moon", which could mean to study the lyrics of DSotM.  That makes
some sense, because it was noticed that the "crumpled" newspaper heads
might refer back to the folded newspaper faces talked about in Brain
Damage.  If you're pessimistic or playful, you can take Marooned and
make Near Doom.  Or, take all the above letters and make:

                          Aid no morale.

                          No moral idea.

                          Admire a loon.

                          I lead a moron.

                          O dear, no mail.

   Which is why I haven't worked on word games from his posts lately.

   No need to summarize, really -- all I've been saying, over and over,
is that the evidence is ambiguous, and that taking an optimistic stance
is, as far as I can tell, "mostly harmless", definitely enjoyable for
the optimists, and potentially beneficial not only for an individual
Publius-loony like myself but for the newsgroup as a whole.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: 4-OCT-1994 20:45 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: two curious TDB sound-clips

     I'd like to draw your attention to the sound-clips in two songs
from The Division Bell, and invite speculation as to what some of them
might be and what they might mean.

     In Poles Apart, there's an odd bit of "circus music", for want of
a better term.  There's some sort of drumming sound, someone whistling,
something like squealing brakes, a baby crying, and more.

     In Lost For Words, which begins with someone walking through a door
and slamming it, there's a short sound clip of a boxing match, with the
referee counting someone out.  The count isn't right, though -- listen.
After the count, the ref says, "the winner, by a knock-knock out".  It's
not as if it were an echo, since only that word is repeated.  There's
something there that might be worth investigating by manipulation with
a computer:  the ring announcer's bit is interrupted by a short warble
that sounds a bit like radio telemetry or something.  Perhaps it would
be recognizable if it were slowed down by a large factor.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 17-OCT-1994 14:00
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Publius: Boxed in pretty good?

   I was listening again to the LFW referee's count, to see if I could
hear the word "there" instead of "ten", and it seemed to me that just
maybe the count goes, "4, 5, 7, 7, 8, *then* 6, 5".

[I don't think so any more. -- mb, 11/94]

   Thinking some more about it, and the "no safety in numbers" clue,
it occurred to me that this might be a *safe* combination.  Maybe the
boxing is supposed to remind us of a box.  Furthermore, the other
ambiguous place in the count is where the six ought to be, so maybe
the count is split into the number pairs 4-5, 7-8, and 6-5:
"4, 5, (then), 7, 8, (then) 6, 5".

   Safes have doors.  We've been looking for doors.  Here ya go.

   Remember the door in the WtIO art that looks hard to open?  No
knob or latch visible to me, only a lock cylinder, and the door
appears to be upside down -- maybe that's just to draw our attention,
or to indicate a door that's up high somewhere.  Can't be too high,
though, if ivy grows over the door.  Hmmm.  Monk-keys -- maybe there's
a tough obstacle to unlock before we get to the final door, having
something to do with monks, a monastery, or a monastic-run school:
"open my door to my enemies, and I ask could we wipe the slate clean".
Ely Cathedral was run by Benedictine monks, and I think a number of
the schools and churches in Cambridgeshire have similar connections.

   Speaking of "beating your fists on the floor", I think it's common
for these old churches and cathedrals to contain tombs and other
such "cave"-type places, "world[s] of isolation" that is.

Mark Brown

         Whatcha think, Craig?  And thanks for making me think about
         a "there" said by the ref.

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: Great Daze
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 22:18:02 GMT

   There are many things in A Great Day For Freedom that still
elude my understanding, but I noticed a few things that might
inspire someone to take a closer look.

   AGDFF seems to have a biographical aspect about the ending of
David Gilmour's marriage to Ginger several years ago.  There has
also been a lot of discussion of the connection between this song
and "tearing down the Wall" in Berlin in 1989.  Those are quite
plain.  Somewhat less obvious is the possibility that there's a
reference to the emancipation of slaves in America, with Lincoln
being the right-hand newspaper-head, and the page-number heads
being the North and South looking away from each other.  Perhaps
the newspapers are crumpled as kindling, to be touched off by the
spark of new hopes of freedom.  Other imagery also seems to fit:

   Armistice Day, celebrating the end of WWI, is a simple one.

   [And Veterans Day, on which Roger would remember his father.  On
Halloween 1986, Roger Waters asked the High Court to dissolve the PF
partnership.  On November 11, Pink Floyd announced plans for AMLoR.]


   November 11 is Martinmas in England, the feast of St. Martin of
Tours.  (He's popular in France as well.)  This day is associated
with several traditions having to do with the harvest season and
the coming of winter.  It was a day for settling accounts.  Servants
were free to change employers if they wished.

   Martinmas was also the day to slaughter cattle and salt the meat
for winter consumption, as well as the day to taste the new wine:


           with glasses high we raised a cry
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           [tasting the wine]

           Now frontiers shift like desert sands
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           [borders redrawn after WWI]

           While nations wash their bloodied hands
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           [butchering the cattle, ending the Great War]

           Of loyalty, of            history, in shades of grey
              ^^^^^^^                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
           [servants change masters]       [Civil War, perhaps]

   St. Martin of Tours is associated with some notable legends.  He's
said to have torn his cloak in two and shared it with a beggar.  Could
that have inspired the "torn" division between the two separate works
of art that illustrate AGDFF?

   There's also a legend that while travelling to Rome on foot, Martin
was confronted by the Devil, who taunted Martin for having to trudge
along on foot.  Martin changed the Devil into a mule, and rode him to
Rome.  He kept the Devil under control by making the sign of the cross.
A Latin verse about that is translated as:

   "Cross, cross thyself; thou plaguest and vexest me needlessly, for
due to to my extertions thou shalt soon reach Rome, thy desired goal!"

[Note the "x" or cross on the left paper head. -- mb, 11/94]

   That sounds a lot like Publius telling us that despite the flames
directed against him, his efforts will help us reach a desired goal.
Yet another association with Publius is possible -- here's the Latin:

   "Signa te signa; temere me tangis et angis:
    Roma tibi subito motibus ibit amor!"

   Look carefully -- each line is a palindrome, reading the same both
forwards and backwards!  That might refer to Publius or the band having
to play games, and not speaking in a straightforward manner with us.

   It might be a reference to the nature of Time.  Despite my address,
I'm not a physicist and am not comfortable making a comment about the
symmetry of future and past with respect to the present.

   Sam of the Publius Concern, [e-mail], has already
noted that some piano sequences in Cluster One are repeated backwards.
Perhaps someone will find other palindromatic aspects of TDB.  I should
be able to get the songbook in about 10 days, and maybe it will help
this non-musician find something unusual.

   Another St. Martin is feasted on November 12.  He was the last pope
to have been martryed, three centuries after Martin of Tours lived.

   Since there seem to be connections between AGDFF, history and
tradition, I invite people to look for other connections between songs
on TDB and holidays or historical events.  I think we've seen a link
between the steel heads and Easter already, and perhaps to the martyred
St. Valentine; and there's a possible reference to Christmas in the
colors used to print the TDB disc itself.  See any more?

   Oh, almost forgot!  Notice that the pink African daisies floating
in the pool, with white lyrics overprinted, make a red-white-blue
color scheme.  The daisies are like bursting fireworks in the night
sky, perhaps.  Is this is a reference to another Great Day For Freedom,
Independence Day?  That was once a day to "wake to the sound of drums",
wasn't it?

   I still wonder about other themes of AGDFF.  The ones that seem most
interesting are:

The Ship of Fools had finally run aground
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Promises lit up the night like paper doves in flight
^^^^^^^^                       ^^^^^^^^^^^

   Perhaps the Ship of Fools is only Astoria, Gilmour's boat-cum-studio,
but maybe someone can see more deeply than I.

Keep Talking,
Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 22-OCT-1994 19:50 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: HH import single art

[e-mail] (DAVID ANTHONY PARRY) wrote:

> I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but on the cover
> the High Hopes CD single, there seems to be a face (some kind
> of eagle???) hidden in the black cloak/sheet.

and [e-mail] (Shawn) replied:

> Wow, you're right. At first I thought it was a side shot, but
> after a few more seconds, I realized that the eagle/owl was
> looking straight at me.


   I just picked up the import High Hopes single, and you're
right that there's something there.  I think it's the upper face
of a chimpanzee superimposed on the black cloak.  As you know,
The Division Bell's artwork for Keep Talking features monkeys,
and that song is also on this single along with the live version
of One Of These Days (which I'm listening to right now -- wow,
it is great!).

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 22-OCT-1994 20:10 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Re: PUBLIUS: Great Daze

[e-mail] (Matt Denault) wrote:

[....]
> In other words, the doves, symbols of peace and hope, are paper -- fake,
> not real, fragile, etc.  When the East German government (the Ship of
> Fools) finally toppled (ran aground), there were so many of these paper
> doves, but now, "life devalues day by day..."

   I think you've got a valid interpretation there, thanks.  Does anyone
happen to know if a currency devaluation or inflation might be referred
to here?  I know the ruble is in big trouble, but I don't know what the
reunification of Germany did to the Deutschmark.  I think I remember that
the East Germans were allowed to trade their money for Deutschmarks at a
very generous rate, so perhaps there was devaluation.

[....]
> Finally, and I should know better than this, but...on the lower, darker
> part of the left newspaper-head, anyone else see the big "X" ?
> Coincidence...?

> ciao
> matt

   I noticed that "X", and I thought it might go along with the legend
about St. Martin of Tours crossing himself, but it seemed too weak to
include in my post.  I guess it's about as good as the other imagery
I used, though.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 22-OCT-1994 20:55 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Keep Talking Monkey-Pig

   Looking further at the European HH/KT/OoTD "single cd" packaging,
I see two more things besides the hidden ape's face on the cover that
I just posted about.

   This release contains a packet of seven 10 X 12 cm. cards with
various subjects seen in the High Hopes video.  One of them shows the
three figures with colored streamers.  They're shown in full, whereas
on the TDB cd booklet, the leading man is not seen.  I've posted
before that I thought the middle man's face was airbrushed, because
it's so white.  Now that I see this picture, it appears that the first
two men are wearing white masks.

   The package has two inner sleeves, one for the cards and one for
the cd.  One sleeve has the "white-balloon-PF-logo", and the other has
the monkey artwork that's used in the Keep Talking illustration of
The Division Bell cd booklet.  Now that I see this art against a white
background, it looks like the monkeys make up a pig-like face.  It's
a little hard to see, even without statues behind it.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: What Dorset all mean?
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:18:31 GMT

   Publius, I'm groping, trying to figure out this Dorset stuff
and some other things.

   I've found pictures of the little caves at Durdle Door, but
someone who just went there says they're filled with detritus and
that anything left there would wash away.

   I found a picture of the Stair Hole and a bit of information about
it and the unusual cove at Lulworth, and the Lulworth Crumple (does an
"X" on the newspaper head mark the spot?).  Those spots are apparently
less than ten miles down a long road from Castle Corfe, where Cromwell's
Parliamentarians tore down the wall centuries ago.

   I see that there's a Causeway just south of Weymouth in that area,
a low bar of sand connecting an island to the shore at low tide.

   Someone saw that 9.81N might have something to do with sea level,
and this is being considered with some "gravity", but it's a "forced"
interpretation with a possibility of "massive" error.  Oh, if only
Sir Isaac were here to advise me.  :-)

[Re: 9.81N -- This is confusing, and may mean nothing:  Publius may
simply have been greeting a physicist, which as it happens, I'm not;
or he may have been commemorating the fact that Newton is a famous
figure from Cambridge; or it may simply be one more wrong figure to
add to the wrong equations in the ABITW2 projection.  A Newton is the
force required to accelerate one kilogram of mass at a rate of one
meter/s^2.  Gravity is one particular force, acting between masses.
One kilogram of mass falling at sea level at 45 degrees latitude is
accelerated by gravity at the rate of 9.81 meters/s^2.  Therefore,
9.81N is kind of meaningless, if I understand this correctly:  the
unit "Newton" does not belong with the constant "9.81".  --mb, 11/94]

   I see a lot of "shingling" that taken altogether, seems to add up
to "roofs of uncertainty" as in Poles Apart.  (Shingle = large gravel
on the shoreline at Dorset).

   So, I need to recruit help from Pink Floyd fans in the U.K., and it
would help immeasurably if a geologist is among them.  The country we
need someone to poke around in is often visited by geologists and their
students, so I hope that provides an additional incentive beyond the
advancement of a solution for us.  For the protection of that area, and
for the safety of our friends, I hope that only knowledgeable, prepared
people go there.  The place is loaded with fragile things of scientific
interest, and could be dangerous due to the cliffs and the tides, etc.

   Listening to the Poles Apart sound-clip, I hear a noise before the
whistling that might be traffic, but I don't know.  It's a sighing
noise, and today I found a picture of the Bridge of Sighs in Cambridge.
That's confusing, because I thought that sound-clip pointed to London.
I have been able to talk with a fellow from Cambridge, but none yet from
London.  Surely there must be a number of fans from there on the Net,
but they seem to be pretty quiet.

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: Orientation
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 00:34:31 GMT

   In the WtIO art, there is what seems to be an upside-down door.
The title itself refers to an unusual orientation.  So, when I found
out that there's an inverted 30-foot cross hanging from the main arch
inside Westminster Cathedral in London, it caught my attention.  They
call it a rood (a synonym of crucifix or cross).  It takes little
imagination to see that an inverted "rood" can be a result of giving
the word "door" a different orientation.

   Westminster Cathedral has a very unusual appearance, having red
and white brick arranged in stripes and other patterns, but I see no
references to that in TDB, unless you want to count the statues' eyes.

   Brian Jamison pointed out that maybe the steel heads in the TDB
booklet opposite the Marooned whales are looking up at the little page
number head numbered "otto" -- eight.  A prominent feature of Ely
Cathedral is The Octagon, an eight-sided stained-glass skylight that
looks like a kaleidoscope image.  Maybe those two things are connected.
"Turn and face the light", says WDYWFM.  I relate Ely Cathedral to the
song Marooned because when it was built, The Fens around it had not
been drained, so Ely was like an island and the cathedral like a great
ship run aground.

   Another possible relationship between the large "faces" in the art
and the page-number-heads is in the illustration for A Great Day For
Freedom.  As I wrote recently in the "Publius:  Great Daze" post and
in a follow-up to Matt Denault's reply to it, I see a possibility that
one of the great days illustrated there could be the feast day of St.
Martin of Tours.  A legend about him may be referred to by the "X" on
the left-hand newspaper-head.  Now I notice that the page number in the
box under that head is 11, and Martinmas is celebrated November 11.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS's new signal on PPV
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 02:04:42 GMT

   I think the new signal, the scribbled word ENIGMA that we'll see
on November 1 on Pay-Per-View during Another Brick In The Wall Part 2,
was front-projected on the stage's dome from the center of the arena,
and not rear-projected on the circular screen.  That's what Europeans
who have seen it report.

   So, in the new Publius newsgroup post, when he says:

> You need only look at the Circle in The Wall-

   -- I don't think he is necessarily talking only about the scribbling.
He may be telling us to have another look at parts of the concert film
footage projected on the circular screen, particularly parts that are
not seen on MTV.

   Another possibility is that Publius, or the person who wrote this
post and is part of Publius, is a little foggy on the staging details
-- not personally involved with giving the signal, only announcing it.

   The last sentence:

> It's my understanding that there may
> even be more clues to find...

-- could mean that Publius himself is a messenger who doesn't have
the whole picture, or it might mean he's not sure of our progress due
to the newsgroup filling up with newbies lately, or because too few
people post about whether they're making progress.



   New discussion:  The Poles Apart "circus music" sound clip.  I've
said before that the clip begins with a sighing noise that might refer
to the Bridge of Sighs in Cambridge.  It's a covered bridge visible in
the HH video -- we see an interior shot that I once thought was a roofed
walkway next to a building.  The next sound is the drumming, which I've
said may be someone holding a stick against a fence as he walks along it.
Now it occurs to me to think "fence" means The Fens, the drained swampy
fens around Cambridge and Ely that are drained by ditches called "cuts".
So, maybe that whole clip has nothing to do with London, as I've been
claiming.  I'll have to carefully review it, especially the baby's cry,
for other symbolism having to do with Cambridge.




   I finally got the November Q magazine with the interviews, but I
think I'd better get on with updating a summary before I study it.  I
see from glancing at it that Polly Samson is one-quarter Chinese, which
might explain the Oriental appearance of the white balloon PF logos.
One of the two logos is only seen in the HH video and the guitar tabs
book, I think, and it looks like:

****  *
**** *   (that's three horizontal bars and a shallow left parenthesis)
****  *

   Maybe it's fingers on a guitar neck, or a Chinese ideogram, or an
I Ching symbol.  Translate it, maybe you'll win a fortune cookie!

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS at EC, and new tabs book
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 03:28:52 GMT

   Publius says that the "enigma" message on the stage at EC is the
worldwide announcement from the band about it.  Of course, if it's a
fraud that the band doesn't want to promote, they could easily edit it
out of the PPV.  I'm sure it'll stay in, because I think it's genuine.

   It's been suggested that they might now be aware of a Publius
fraud and are playing along as a joke.  That's possible, but if it
amuses them to have me play the fool, I don't mind playing along.
People do even sillier things to show their fondness for football
and baseball teams, etc.  In fact, people do lots of silly things
for bad reasons or for no particular reason at all.

                              ***

   I just got the TDB guitar tabs book, and as you'd expect, it's
very nice.  It features variations on artwork from U.S. and European
cds and the HH video, some nice concert pictures, and photos of things
seen last on Mr. Screen.  Oh yeah, there's also music.

   The most unusual concert photo is a 12 X 12.5-inch reproduction of
Dave in heavy rain -- Houston, I suppose.

   The most surprising one to me is a full page (9 X 12) shot of a
radio-astronomy dish antenna with a rather unusual face painted on it.
I'd guess that the face was not painted by the band's artists.  Behind
it are two microwave relay towers.

   This art, of course, goes with Cluster One.  Large outlined letters
form "CLUSTER" bleeding off the page-bottom.  Part of the "U" and "T"
and all of the "S" are hidden by an inset showing a row of astronomy
antennas that may be the array in Cambridgeshire.  A possible visual
pun is made thereby:  "trying to listen above the clutter".

   A dotted line goes up from the "E" at the bottom, taking a short jog
to the left near the top and bleeding off the page-top.  If it has some
symbolism, I don't get it yet.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: sound-clip refers to Cambridge?
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 23:18:09 GMT

Under the subject "Re: PUBLIUS's new signal on PPV"
[e-mail] (David Jackson) wrote:

> David Gilmour lived at Granchester on the edge of Cambridge - there
> are two frequently used routes to get there from the town - down
> a road called "Fen Causeway" or down one called "Long Road".

> Just off Fen Causeway is a gravel footpath sort of thing which is
> known to the locals as "the cut" (I got this from my sister who
> used to live in Cambridge, and often used "the Cut"). It's
> therefore very likely that this is what the song is refering too
> isn't it ? :-)

> We also think that the water you refer to is the River Cam at Granchester.
> (or the Granta if you prefer - same thing)

> Dave

   Thanks very much for responding, Dave.  I agree with your
conclusions -- we've had previous letters from Cambridgeshire, but
yours is the first that solidly links these references to Cambridge.
Maybe we asked the wrong questions before -- we were interested in
the Fens near Ely Cathedral, the location for the video of High Hopes.
It makes more sense for the lyrics to refer to south Cambridge.

   However, your quoter made it look like Craig's words were mine.
What I had said was:

> ... Poles Apart "circus music" sound clip.  I've said before that the
> clip begins with a sighing noise that might refer to the Bridge of
> Sighs in Cambridge.  [....] The next sound is the drumming, which I've
> said may be someone holding a stick against a fence as he walks along it.
> Now it occurs to me to think "fence" means The Fens, the drained swampy
> fens around Cambridge and Ely that are drained by ditches called "cuts".

   I hope you can help confirm or refute my latest idea that the sounds
in that clip have to do with locations in Cambridge:

"circus music" -- indicating an intersection?

"drumming" -- perhaps Drummer Street, where the bus station is?
           (since my previous idea about The Fens doesn't work too well)

   After the drumming noise is a short bit of whistling which reminds
me of Handel's Water Music.  A bell begins tolling slowly then, until
the end of the clip.  We hear what sounds like it could be a city bus
squeal as it stops, a little "ding-ding" noise like the stop signal
the passengers use, and the bus accelerating again.  There is something
like three crys from a baby, or perhaps that's a party noisemaker as
someone suggested the other day.

   So, can you tell me any location that fits with these clues?  What
street(s) intersect Drummer Street near or at the bus station?

   We're also wondering whether the bus stop signs in any way resemble
the "target" eyes of the statues.

Thanks,

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: STAGE SIGNALS
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 1994 03:04:00 GMT

Simon Haynes, [e-mail] ([e-mail]) wrote,
under the oddly inscrutable subject line "during":

> Somebody asked about the symbols displayed on the lights below
> the stage during 'keep talking'. I was at Earl's court on 27th
> and saw most of them.  My theory is they are simply letters
> rearranged as symbols [....]

> someone else posted an article saying they read 'HOAX', and I'm
> pretty sure I could get 'PUBS' out of the second load of symbols.
> There was also a third set, but I can't remeber what they looked like...

   Some time ago, I studied them from the live Keep Talking video
shown on a short MTV special July 28th.  It's a better source for
this particular purpose than the new PPV show because it shows the
symbols closer, more often, and longer.  The PPV is useful because
it shows enough to confirm that the pattern I found is the same.

   I drew the symbols on an XWindows paint program, but have been
been unable to mail out a usable file.  I haven't had time to draw
them in ASCII, either (which would stretch them vertically anyway).

   There are fifteen symbols, only three or four of which resemble
English alphabet characters regardless of orientation.  During KT,
four sets of several symbols each are lit to full intensity in a
repeated sequence.  There are three sets of four, and one set of
three symbols that are displayed in this manner several times each.

   None of them resemble known words.  The one mistaken for "HO*X",
with the * used by that writer for a square with a hyphen inside it,
interpreted as an "A") uses the third, fifth, eleventh and fifteenth
symbols.  Look at either version, MTV or PPV, and you'll see that it
doesn't really resemble "hoax".  The ones most likely to be chosen
to represent the letters H, O, A, and X would have been the third
(as H), sixth (as O), seventh (as A), and thirteenth (as X).

   It's important to note that to some viewers, perhaps especially
those who are closest, some letters are difficult to see, due to
curvature of the stage, smoke, other lights, people and things in
the way, and sometimes a slight rotation of a horizontal panel that
holds one row of lamps (which spin for some effects).  The panels are
reflective and can make it seem like there are lamps where there are
actually only reflections.  Panels lit to full intensity often make
adjacent ones seem to be partially lit.

==>     They would have been *least* clear at Earls Court
==>  because of ceiling lights added to illuminate the crowd.

   The ones drawn by Simon don't resemble the actual ones as far as
I can tell.  The one that looks like a sideways B may be one that
actually looks like two joined diamonds.  I can't relate the other
to any symbols shown from the stage, or even to D or P as Simon has
it.  How on earth do you get D (P) out of:

 *******
    *
  ** **
 *     *

   Allowing for vertical distortion caused by line spacing, it seems
to me that perhaps you could not see the bottom halves of the ones
you drew.  They should be eight lamps or asterisks tall.

   I think that no meaning will be found for the Keep Talking lights.
Of course, actual words are shown by those lamps during ABITW2, and
at the New Jersey show in July the lamps spelled out ENIGMA PUBLIUS
during Keep Talking.  I may be wrong, but as far as I know, there's
been no variation in the use of these lights except for that July
message predicted by Publius.  Birthday messages and the like have
frequently been projected on the back of the stage during ABITW2.

   And speaking of that, for those who think that scribbling over the
projected ENIGMA message means that there is no enigma:  whatever was
displayed in ABITW2 has *always* been scribbled out.  If the band did
*not* want us to pursue an enigma, the message would be less ambiguous.

   ==> When various birthday greetings were scribbled over, did
   ==> that make you think they were insincere congratulations?

[The arithmetic equations shown alongside the word ENIGMA are all wrong.
Some people may think that's a sign that the enigma is a false notion.
The problem with that theory, I think, is that at all other shows the
equations were wrong, but that fact did not contradict the greetings,
just as the scribbling did not. --mb, 11/94]


   Several absolute statements can be made about it:

   The enigma may be a hoax after all.

   The people working at it *may not* find a solution in time.

   The ones who are not working at it *definitely* won't solve it.

   You are not participating in the enigma if you think it may be
   real, but are not actually contributing to the investigation.


Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: Re: PUBLIUS's '9.81N'
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 06:38:40 GMT

[e-mail] (Dave Bacon) wrote:

> [...] but has anyone considered who this number is associated with?
> Newton.  And where did Newton do his science?  Cambridge.  I would
> think that someone would be able to pull out something that might
> fit with the rest of the stuff that has been said [...]

   I agree with your interpretation, Dave.

   Hawking, Newton, Cambridge.

   The more I look at Cambridge, the more I see that seems to fit
in with other places I've investigated as part of this.  For example,
the Dorset area that I looked into because a bit of that coast is the
scene for the CBTL art:  now I find places in Cambridge named with
the same names as some Dorset locations I investigated.

   Cluster One may refer by art and intro sound clip to astronomy at
Cambridge, e.g. the array of radio telescope dishes.  WtIO seems to
fit with Hawking, as does Keep Talking.  LFW is full of stuff that
could fit there.  High Hopes is obviously about Cambridge.  I am
optimistic that Poles Apart sound clues are pointing to a path
through the middle of Cambridge.

   The problem is to distinguish history-of-our-youth references
from Publius stuff.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: ? 6-NOV-1994 23:35 CST
To: alt.music.pink-floyd

   One of the High Hopes balloon logos looks much like three
thick horizontal bars followed by a shallow left parethesis:

****  *
**** *
****  *

   If there are any experts out there, perhaps you can tell me
if I might be guessing right on Storm's idea behind this thing.

   Three bars = number 3, with a left-over aleph.

   Left parenthesis = much like the first symbol of the Arabic
alphabet, aleph or alif, which apparently also means the number 5.

   Counting all four strokes gives the number 4.


   Ergo, numbers 5, 4, and 3 are all there, and three-aleph =
three are left.  Very nice symbolism, if my assumptions hold true.

[Syd, Roger, Dave, Nick, Rick = 5,
 Roger, Dave, Nick, Rick = 4,
 Dave, Nick, Rick = 3.   --mb, 11/13/94]

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: Seeing Eye-To-Eye
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 19:19:19 GMT

   This uses information partly from recent email and the newsgroup.
Thanks to the several nice folks from the United Kingdom who kindly
contributed to this particular set of Bell Letters (yes, that's a
pun on belles-lettres).  They are:

Dave Jackson ([e-mail])
Chris J. Moss ([e-mail])
Adam Woolfe ([e-mail])

   I'm looking into whether the sound-clip in the middle of Poles
Apart, which as a whole I refer to as "the circus music", is meant
to indicate a path through Cambridge, England.

   I cannot connect this solidly with the enigma yet, but I hope we
can all "see eye-to-eye" (like the statues) on the idea of the band
using this clip to refer to the home town of Syd Barrett, Roger
Waters, David Gilmour, Tim Renwick, Peter Jenner, Stephen Hawking,
Isaac Newton, et alii.

   There is a connection to Publius, whether or not you believe in
an enigma.  One of his posts asks us to consider the lyric from
Poles Apart:

> Leading the blind while I stared out the steel in your eyes.

   How does one lead the blind?  Sound is one primary tool, and I
say that the band wants to walk us through Cambridge, even though
we can't see it, by giving audio clues.

   On Friday, I got my hands on a map of Cambridge.  I see an area
in the center of the town that I would like to suggest is a sort
of "circus", in the sense that it's an *arena* of interest to me.
That way I won't have to start referring to the clip by a new name:
I had been expecting to find an intersection of several streets
like Piccadilly Circus in London.  There's a roundabout, Four Lamps,
that might loosely be considered a circus close to my "circus", but
it's not very interesting to me.

   In the PA sounds are drumming and what I take to be a bus coming
to a stop and then accelerating.  A bus station on Drummer Street in
that central area caught my eye when I was using Mosaic to browse
http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/misc/uk -- the University College London site
shows London, Cambridge, Dorset, and other places in the U.K.

   The path doesn't start in the town center, if I go by High Hopes
lyrics.  With attention to them, let's begin at Grantchester Meadows,
southwest of the town's center.  Incidentally, I'd like to know if
the Granchester Meadows of Roger Waters's song is adjacent to the
street of the same name in Cambridge, or farther south near the town
of Grantchester.  Note that in the following discussion, I refer to
the street and not the meadows which I presume touch the River Cam.

   David Gilmour, if walking from his home, would be likely to have
followed a footpath described here:

[e-mail] (David Jackson) wrote:
> David Gilmour lived at Granchester on the edge of Cambridge - there
> are two frequently used routes to get there from the town - down
> a road called "Fen Causeway" or down one called "Long Road".

   Actually, the Long Road information seems wrong.

[e-mail] (Adam Woolfe) wrote:
> In fact it runs east-west over a mile south of the centre, one
> end being about half a mile from Grantchester and the far end
> considerably further away from town!

   On the map I found, Long Road appears to begin 2 miles southeast
of Grantchester Meadows and goes eastward from that point, which is
somewhat east of the town of Grantchester.  Unless some path has been
*nicknamed* "the long road" by locals, I don't understand the High
Hopes lyrics that refer to "the Long Road", and it's rather far away
from "the cut" described below.  Long Road goes east to Cherry Hinton,
where Syd Barrett lived, but I think Syd would use Cherry Hinton Road
on his way from home to the Fen Causeway and the Cut described by DJ
below.  He wouldn't go south to Long Road.

   Now back to David Jackson's email and newsgroup post:

> Just off Fen Causeway is a gravel footpath sort of thing which is
> known to the locals as "the cut" (I got this from my sister who
> used to live in Cambridge, and often used "the Cut").

   The Fen Causeway is a road nearly a mile long that goes east from
near Grantchester Meadows to a point due south of Cambridge's center.
David Jackson continues:

> the bus station may just about have been on DGs walking (or cycling)
> route from Granchester to what was then Cambridge tech. college (now
> called Anglia Polytechnic University) if he wanted to go via the town
> centre. He would certainly have gone up Long Road or Fen Causeway (and
> "the cut" to get onto Fen Causeway). _I'd_ be very likely to go from
> the centre to "the tech" via the footpath shown.

   Is that the College of Arts and Technology that Dave and Syd went
to?  I can't find it on the map.

   Dave, the map you drew in ASCII does not jibe with the Ordnance
Survey map, so I didn't include it here.

   More from David Jackson:

> I think the "circus music" is actually fairground music - it's a
> steam organ, which is associated more with fairs than circusses here.

> Circusses and Fairs usually take place on Jesus Green, which is near
> Jesus College - on the north/north eastern edge of the town centre -
> and not that close to the bus station. Christ's Pieces is the name of
> the grassed area behind the bus station - there may have been fairs on
> that at one time, but it's now the main walking route from The Graffton
> Centre (a small shopping mall) to the town centre (and the bus [...]

   Well, there are at least three kinds of circus- or fair-type music
in that clip, so maybe there's a reference to Jesus Green.  It looks
like it's less than a mile north from the bus stop, a bit closer than
the bus stop is to the Fen Causeway in the southeast.

   More from David Jackson:

> Emmanuel College has a metal fence (railings) between it and the
> bus station. Now the interesting part - I've changed my mind about the
> bus/train noise - a gate closing, with a lock being locked is my new
> thought.  i.e. at the end of the instrumental bit they're "closing the
> door" on the past (or rather Roger & Syd). However, thinking about it
> a bit more:

> We have the fairground (getting off the roller coaster ride (PF with
> Roger probably), running away - the dragging of the stick on the
> railings signifying movement - the railings are probably used as a
> metaphor for a wall - Roger's wall - going through the gate and locking
> it - free of Roger, who remains locked in his own prison behind the
> bars (the railings other meaning). This leads onto the final verse
> which starts with Dave expressing doubts in his ability to do it all
> without Roger.

> Finally he realises that he can (I think the last couple of lines are a
> reference to Polly, his wife, who gave him the confidence to do it).

> That sums up Poles Apart, but it doesn't help with the Publius stuff !

   Well, perhaps you have something there.  The presence of a metal
fence between Emmanuel College and the bus station means something
different to me.  If the sound is a gate, then it's not a stick against
a fence, it's sticking gate hinges.  To me it doesn't sound like a gate.

   I'll try now describe the sound-clip itself and find references
to Cambridge locations in it.  It begins at about 2:50 in Poles Apart.

   The "leading the blind" lyric immediately precedes this sound-clip.
"Circus music" with two organ bits goes through the whole thing, but
just before it begins, there's an organ sound that repeats a short
voice-like sound several times, almost like a voice saying a word over
and over.  After the circus music starts, there is a sighing sound.
A short bit of whistling follows, and then a drumming sound goes around
us.  As the drumming fades, another type of organ music begins that I
will refer to as "fair music", and it continues for a while.  Also after
the drumming, a large bell begins to toll slowly, and continues.  Along
with all that, a third type of organ music briefly runs up and down the
scale, and I'll call it "ferris wheel" music.  It ends, and a squealing
sound comes next.  A baby or something goes "wah, wah, wah" and we hear
a ding-ding sound.  A vehicle accelerates, and a sighing sound returns.
The large bell had not tolled since the ferris wheel music, but now it
tolls again at the end of the clip as the sighing and circus music fade.

   I didn't want that paragraph to be any longer, so let me go back
through and give my interpretations of the sounds:

Circus music = indicates the hub of the town, the center?

Sighing = crossing the Bridge of Sighs at St. John's College about a
mile northwest of the bus station?  I thought that was pretty good,
but the sighing comes back at the end of the clip.

Whistling = reminds me of Water Music by Handel, same Bridge, too?

Drumming = Is that like a stick being dragged along a metal fence?  Or
is it the turning of a mill wheel, indicating Mill Road southeast of
the bus station?  Or Wheeling Street, a short street near to the
southwest?

Fair music = a fair or festival or an area where they are held?  Or
perhaps a ride at a fair, like a merry-go-round?  Perhaps the roundabout
I referred to earlier at Four Lamps, northeast of the bus station?

The bell = calling the faithful, as in DSotM, perhaps?

Ferris wheel music, which runs up and down -- a ferris wheel, roller
coaster, or hill or valley?  Perhaps it's Jesus Ditch north of the bus
station between Jesus Green and the station.  Since a fair might be
held at Jesus Green, and the fair music continues through the ferris
wheel music, perhaps that's it.  Or could it be Castle Hill about a mile
northwest of the station?  Or is that music just meant to sound like
the wind, going up and down in pitch?

The squeal, the ding-ding, the acceleration = a bus stops, a passenger
pulls the stop cord, and it takes off again.

The wah-wah-wah = it's between the ding-ding and the acceleration.  Does
it represent a child crying, or Christ child (Christ's  College, its
chapel, and Christ's Pieces are right there on the north and west of the
station).  Or, does bawling = bowling (Bowling Green is adjacent to the
station on the northeast).  It's also been suggested that it sounds like
a party noise-maker, and I kind of like that idea if it means that the
bus is taking me to party with PF!

Sighing sound again = ?  This one gets past me.  It's the same as the
first one, I think, deep breathing or sighing or light snoring.

   This was going to be a lot longer, believe it or not, but I have
work to do at home, so I guess I'll put together a bits and pieces
post in the next few days while you think about this one.

   I think it'd be great if you Cambridge folks could play Poles Apart
for a blind person who's familiar with getting around in Cambridge and
identifying things by sound.  Maybe they're not symbolic sounds at all.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: IN THE EYE OF THE STORM (T.)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 09:11:03 GMT

   That grinding noise you hear is me shifting gears!  You may also
detect the gnashing of teeth by skeptics, because it's a Publius post.


Q:   What's black-and-white and "riddle over"?

A:   The crumpled newspaper heads!


   Really, I don't know if it's over, but it's definitely no longer
the serious old enigma I've been pursuing.  Maybe this is just comic
relief, or maybe this is it -- I'm too weirded out to think straight.

   The Bell is "cracked", I hope.  "Wise-cracked", that is.  Let me
"peal" away a thick layer of stodginess and take "liberties" with it!

   I noticed some puns in The Division Bell earlier -- I've probably
forgotten most of 'em.  You know, Cluster One static as a reference
to radio chaos / Radio Kaos.  The "big wheel" in the High Hopes video
that gets all wet:  "water wheel".  I thought it was just an occasional
joke on Storm's part, or just my personal problem.  Or yours:  do you
remember the lame thread on alt.music.pink-floyd in which people were
trying to come up with scornful names for the album?  My contribution,
ironic because I loved TDB, was "The Deficient Bell".

   As I was retiring for the night, I was looking at the Coming Back
To Life art of Durdle Door, which I recently deduced is a photo taken
from "behind the door", as it were, and it started to come to me that
there are *lots* of puns.  I don't think I've really got all of the
CBTL thing yet, but check this out:


   Those hard-headed/heart-headed figures on the cover of TDB may
indicate a rather wacky theme running through the album:

   Two heads are bitter, then one!


   The mirror-ball that's hanging by a thread looks like it has
Polly's face repeated all over it:

   The belle of the ball!


   Behind her, what's that in the background of the page just
before the smiling pig comprised of two gem-stone heads?

   Pearls before swine!


   No wonder Publius tried to make us start with the Marooned
clue.  See the sand and seashells?  It's the easiest one:

   Beached like a whale.


   Skip forward to the chimps in front of the steel heads that are
used to illustrate Keep Talking.  The obvious fact has been noted
that you can curve the booklet around so that the art is continous.
I think that by doing it that way, Storm is saying:

   Monkeying around, with our heads!


   In the song Lost For Words, the combatants really seem to be
taking off the gloves and fighting dirty.  But there's something
lighter there too, even if I may not have it all.  I noted the
"vee for victory" formed by the gloves long ago, but how about:

   Board/bored with taking off the gloves, so all hands on board?


   Moving to the EMI High Hopes single: on the cover is another
version of the TDB booklet photo of a man with a black cape.  The
HH version adds a pair of eyes somewhat hidden as a superimposition
over the cape, which look to me like chimpanzee's eyes:

   Man with a black cape / black ape / monkey on his back!


   Well, surely you can help polish those up, and find some more.
Find the sardonic sonics, such as perhaps the knock-knock joke in
LFW.  Listen to the sighings/signs in the Poles Apart sound-clip.
Please check out the art I haven't mentioned, see what you find.


Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: 8-NOV-1994 10:40 CST
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Publius:  Here comes the windup!

   You probably all thought I was "three sheets to the wind"
(that's a reference to the back cover of the TDB booklet)
in my last post, titled "Publius: In the eye of the Storm (T.)".

   The more I look at it, the more convinced I am that the Publius
affair is winding down -- the central theme and designed purpose that
he said were to be found in TDB is:  lighten up.  Don't take us so
seriously, don't take yourselves so seriously.  I was right to have
faith in Publius, because he definitely came as a messenger from the
band -- that's clear now.  And my critics were also right:  I *was*
working too hard at this, and it *was* all a big put-on.

   [There's a U.S./U.K. difference on the TDB cover -- the four lights
between the statues.  It was noticed by [e-mail], Reinier
van Baal of Tiburg University, Holland, that this may refer to Four
Lamps in Cambridge.]  He was responding to a newsgroup post I made
discussing Cambridge location clues.

   The U.S. cover shows Ely Cathedral between the statues' mouths:
The bitter heads are giving lip service to God through institutional
religion.  I think that was mentioned by someone here last summer.
When the heads come together to make a heart, which as I said can be
described as "two heads are bitter, then one", their faith is in
their hearts.

   I have some more of these, but no more time to post until later.

   (And lest you think this is too corny, and that Roger Waters
would never stoop to doing anything like David Gilmour and Storm have
done, have another think about Amused To Death.  Listen to the girl's
voice introducing What God Wants:  she's saying indirectly,
"I'm used to death.")

Mark Brown

(We Iowans are specialists in pigs and corn!)

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: And here comes the pitch!
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 01:32:56 GMT


   The underlying theme of TDB *is* a communication theme, but not what
we thought.  The manner in which this is expressed is totally unexpected
to me as a central theme, but it's fun.  It does not deny or negate the
more serious analysis that has been/is being done, either.  The art and
music and videos are chock full of wordplay and puns and such that were
unsuspected.

   I've used such devices since July to try to be more entertaining
and less annoying to the newsgroup, but only last night did I recognize
the pattern for what it was.  It was astounding and hilarious!

   Back to the central purpose and designed solution:  Pink Floyd is
saying to us:

   "Don't take us too seriously.  Don't take yourselves too seriously.
Don't worship us or despise us.  We're like you.  For example, we may
make a bad song sometimes.  Our defenders shouldn't feel obligated
to staunchly defend everything we do, and our critics shouldn't get
carried away, either.  Nothing we do is so important as to justify
anyone arguing bitterly about it, and we can't fully communicate with
you through music unless you keep in mind that we're only humans,
and we're only makers of music."

   "Enjoy our communication.  Even when things are quite serious, keep
your sense of humor, as we do.  There are deep and dark aspects of TDB
that are real, but there's always a bright side to things.  Don't be
bitter, get together."

   Now, I haven't heard yet from Publius or anyone that this is all
there is to it, but I think it's the main theme:  communicate fully
with us by understanding that we're human, and communicate joyfully
with each other.

[Have you wondered about the High Hopes table-tennis game played with
hand mirrors and a balloon with a PF logo?  Try this: bouncing ideas
from one person to another, each reflecting upon them before bouncing
them back; i.e, "PUT YOUR HEADS TOGETHER." --mb, 11/13/94]

   There are plenty of things like the ones I've posted about for you
all to discover, so hop to it and have some fun -- some references are
corny, some serious, some poignant.

   That's my opinion now of the theme of The Division Bell, but there
must be more to it.  I now remember that Publius said:

> Although all great music is subject to multiple interpretations, in
> this case there is a central purpose and a designed solution. For the
> ingenious person (or group of persons) who recognizes this - and where
> this information points to - a unique prize has been secreted.

   So, perhaps my original idea of a treasure hunt is still possible.
Or, it could be something else as totally unexpected as what I've just
recently seen as a theme.

[The prize probably isn't monetary, as has been suggested to me.
 "But if you ask me for a rise, it's no surprise:
  they're giving none away."  --mb, 11/13/94]

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: PUBLIUS: Take it from the top
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 08:11:17 GMT

   [e-mail] asked for someone to post the quote from
David Gilmour shown a few minutes before the PPV special.  I
can't find it now, but here's the gist of it (not an exact
quote):

Gilmour:  "Many peoples' ideas have gone into it [the stage
          show], but they all have to be cleared *at the top*.

   Meaning, of course, that no renegade technician is responsible
for the Publius signals from the stage on July 18 and October 20
(which was shown here on November 1).  Publius and the enigma
are ideas promoted by the band.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: Publius: It's nice to be there.
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:02:11 GMT

   Here are a couple of good emails from across the pond, about
Cambridge England, which I've been studying as part of the enigma.
For example, after the Poles Apart "leading the blind" lyric is a
sequence including music that reminds me of a circus or fair.





> From:    MX%"[e-mail]"
> Subj:    Bridge of Sighs
> Date:   9-NOV-1994 13:01:28.06

> Mark,
> In your posting to PF newsgroup, you say a bit about the Bridge of Sighs in
> St. John's College, Cambridge.  Well I'm a student at John's, and you may be
> interested to know that the Bridge of Sighs (as well as other bits of John's)
> are featured in the concert vid for High Hopes (not sure about the chart vid -
> haven't seen it - sacrilege !).  It was quite odd to see these big white
> balloons being bounced through New Court one morning in February I can tell
> you, and then to find out you've got your favourite band on your own front
> doorstep is a bit of a brain screwdler.  Anyway, on with the info...

> Fairs/circuses always (last 6 years) take place on Midsummer common (next to
> Jesus Green) as do the yearly firework display and Strawberry Fayre (open air
> festival, free bands, very spaced-out).  Christ's Pieces has lots of trees and
> shrubbery's in it, making it a bit impractical for public events.  Douglas
> Adams went to St. John's.  Erm that's about all the trivia I can think of at
> the mo, hope it helps.

> Chris Meadows (no relation to anyone called Grant Chester)
- ---




   The second letter responds to my statement:

mb/ On Friday, I got my hands on a map of Cambridge. ....
mb/ I had been expecting to find an intersection of several streets
mb/ like Piccadilly Circus in London.  There's a roundabout, Four Lamps,
mb/ ... but it's not very interesting to me.
- ----




> From: [e-mail] (Reinier van Baal)
> Subject: Re: PUBLIUS: Seeing Eye-To-Eye
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 12:32:52

> Maybe you're wrong here. "FOUR LAMPS" seems a direct clue. Look at the
> UK-cover of TDB> What do you see between the mouths in the background?
> FOUR LIGHTS!

> greetings, and keep talking!

> reinier

> Reinier van Baal
> Tiburg University, Holland
> (Katholieke Universiteit Brabant)
- ---




   I also heard third-hand about a fellow from Cambridge who fixed the
Hawking family car and went with them to the Earls Court show.  Stephen
Hawking and family, and this young man, met the band after the show.
It's apparent from his story that it was Mr. Hawking's first meeting with
the band.  I once thought that he might have inspired or contributed to
the enigma, but that seems to be wrong.

   I really appreciate the input from these correspondents, and I hope
that the rest of you see some possibilities in the idea that Pink Floyd
wants to lead us around the home town of Gilmour, Barrett, and Waters
by various clues, even though we are "blind" and can't see where we're
being led.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: Re: Publius: It's nice to be there.
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 06:15:18 GMT

[e-mail] (Raskolnikov) wrote:

> No offense Mark, but

> Does anyone else besides me think that this story is likely
> to be a fake?
> I mean really.  We've have plenty of people post here claiming
> to be distant relatives of the floyd, that they personally know
> band members or their children (no offense meant), etc. that i
> really doubt that stories like these are true.  Particularly
> because these reports of being related to the band members and
> such are always isolated messages, and we only have the original
> sender's guarantee that what s/he says is genuine.

   In this particular case, you'll note that I was careful not to
present it as hard fact.  I said "it's apparent from his story" and
"it seems to be" and "heard it third-hand" meaning to convey that
there's no verification.

   Despite that, I give some credence to that particular story.  Why
to that one and not others?  Because it was presented to me as being
an email between two friends, and not as a post to a newsgroup of
strangers.  The tone of it didn't suggest boasting, only wanting to
share the pleasure of a very fond memory.

   Having said that publicly, now I'll have to be suspicious of any
future ones I get that way.

> Speaking of verification, is the Enigma Publius GIF from the Giants
> show on any FTP/WWW site?  I'd like to get a look at that one myself.

   I'm afraid I don't know.  It ought to be, but I'm not able to do it.
Naturally, it's not proof by itself, since computer images are easy to
fake.  Fortunately there were many witnesses who posted here.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: Re: Publius: It's nice to be there.
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 1994 07:15:17 GMT

[e-mail] (Reinier van Baal) of Tilburg University wrote:

> That must be a scene of the interior of the Bridge of Sighs with balloons
> bouncing through what looks like a corridor of a college building.

> College building of St. John's (and in the edge Trinity?) during the
> first lyrics line (Beyond the horizon...)

> Middle Court of St. Johns College (There was a ragged band...)


   Good research, good deduction!  It had fooled me, since no water is
visible in the scene from the video, but it has been confirmed as the
Bridge of Sighs (modeled after the more famous one in Italy) by someone
from Cambridge.  Which reminds me, I have more to quote from the emails
I quoted in an article about Cambridge.  I'll try to do it tomorrow.


> College building of St. John's (and in the edge Trinity?) during the
> first lyrics line (Beyond the horizon...)

> Middle Court of St. Johns College (There was a ragged band...)

   St. John's is also reported as the site for much of the video.
I think you're the first, however, to report that:

> That bridge where the white balloons are bouncing across I had
> identified as the iron footbridge across a side arm of the Cam river
> in The Backs between the Kitchen Bridge and Trinity Bridge.
> (description of a Winter Walk through Cambridge in Jarrold guide
> page 15).

   Thanks for this excellent research, for your kind words, and for
the Nick Mason quotes elsewhere in the newsgroup.

   I agree that the Ship of Fools refers to the band.  I didn't see
for a long time what a strong reference is made to the breakup of
the band in A Great Day For Freedom.  I think Craig McGee's idea
about Roger and the Berlin Wall has a lot of merit.  I don't know
why it sank in so slowly for me -- maybe I was just reluctant to
think about the sadness with Roger.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: why I like PF, in 2500 words or less
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 1994 00:41:47 GMT

Dean Hebert, [e-mail] wrote about the High Hopes video:
[to the echoes mailing list]

> I'm a little leery of taking this pun stuff too far. [....]
> there seems to be a lot of imagery that isn't a pun: the big
> teddy bear, the giant high-heeled shoe on a cart, the three guitars
> floating downstream, the big stone face being carried.  I just don't
> see the puns there, and I think that some of the puns people have
> suggested are really "strtching" the idea.


   Geez, Dean, you seemed to hit a sour note there.  Perhaps you might
want to try a slice of cake with your afternoon tea instead of lemon?
Since I'm the one administering most of the "pun-ishment" around here
lately, it seems as if I heard you "Speak To Me".  It looks as though I
might have "stretched" things until they "snapped back at me".    ;)

   I never claimed *everything* is a pun.  That's just one form of
symbolism, using irony.  I hope you're not completely down on all the
analysis.  If so, you're closing your eyes to some fun stuff, because
PF has always had a sense of humor and a hint of mystery.

   I'd like to hear what *you* enjoy about Pink Floyd sometime.

   When I first heard their music in 1969, what attracted me to them
was that the music was *about* something, just as the movie 2001 of the
same year contained things that weren't obvious.  It was pleasurable and
mind-expanding to analyze both of them.  I think many PF fans would say
something similar:  Pink Floyd's music seems to be more than superficial
much of the time, and it's interesting to think about and talk about.
That's a primary attraction that differentiates PF from, for example,
Madonna.  Her songs don't always come directly to their points either,
but there's little doubt about what her points are.


   As to the three guitars floating downstream in the video for HH,
I associate that generally with the lyric about the flow of time:

> The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever

   Remember that in See Emily Play, Barrett wrote:

> Float on a river forever and ever, Emily
> There is no other day
> Let's try it another way
> You'll lose your mind and play
> Free games for may

   Besides the HH reference back to Syd's river,  notice that in that
old song itself is a reference to the Games For May concert in London.
[Since May-Day means S.O.S., suppose that inspired the title Saucerful
 of Secrets?  Dunno.  Who really knows what inspired Syd? --mb, 11/13/94]


   High Hopes is full of things that remind me of Syd, including the
large stone bust.  Consider that Syd's career was busted and he was a
burden because he was stoned.  Those are my ideas, not necessarily
Storm Thorgerson's:  many viewpoints are possible.  I said once that:

> [... the bust is] a hollow stage prop, which I see as symbolic of
> the one-dimensional view that fans have of pop stars:  we see them
> as having heroic stature, and forget the fragile humanity behind
> the public image.


   About those shoes:  maybe I'm not the first to make this connection.
I seem to vaguely recall someone talking about them.  Anyway, Syd wrote
in Apples and Oranges:

> Shopping in sharp shoes
> Walking in the sunshine town feeling very cool

   My claim:  [Shopping in sharp (pointed, high heeled) shoes]
                 + cart = shopping cart = reference to Syd, and
                     walking in the sunshine town = Cambridge.

   Remember the concert video scene with a figure finding a doorway
in an open field and going through?  I can't remember if it's used
with SoYcD or HH.  Looking at old lyrics I see Paint Box (Wright):

> I open the door to an empty room


   So far, a lot of fans seem oddly reluctant to believe that any
thread of thought stitches the songs of The Division Bell together,
but I see some things that might be doing that.  For example, the
large stuffed bear that falls from a window -- why can't it be a
connection to A Great Day For Freedom, the fall of the Russian Bear,
which Roger also referred to in The Final Cut?  The Russian Bear
idea may not be original, I don't remember, but I think I'm linking
it to AGDFF for the first time.

   For another example, the corpse-like figures that embrace in the
High Hopes video -- why can't that be a reference to AGDFF as well?
I wrote earlier about that song, and the days in November that the
band remembers.  I associate that scene with All Souls Day, and note
that for some, death is a great day for freedom from life's cares.

   Notice the newspaper name used in the art of A Great Day For Freedom,
"The Evening Standard", which is merely a "later" edition (naturally)
of the one mentioned in It Would Be So Nice (Wright):

> Have you ever read the Daily Standard?
> Reading all about the plane that's landed
> Upside down?


   In closing, let me just say that there is a reference to an old
lyric in Point Me At The Sky that I hope I never find:

> And all we've got to say to you is goodbye
> It's time to go, better run and get your bags, it's goodbye
> Nobody cry, it's goodbye

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Date: 22-JUL-1994 09:00 CDT
To: alt.music.pink-floyd
Re: Boxing gloves [an old post that seems to fit in here]

   Something about the pair of boxing gloves illustrated
in The Division Bell booklet has a satisfying symbolism
for me, whether it was intended or not.

   On the glove on the right the laces are crossed through
four sets of eyelets, and on the glove on the left the laces
cross through three sets of eyelets.  At the last pair of
eyelets on both gloves the laces are uncrossed and loose.

   The symbolism I see here is that 1. There are three Left:
Dave, Nick, and Rick.  2. It would be Right to have four
members: Roger back with the band.  3.  One member is unstrung,
at loose ends, not together: Syd Barrett.

Mark Brown

- ----------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.music.pink-floyd
Subject: Publius: mail wrap-up: Cambridge
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 1994 03:02:26 GMT

   Here are more edited excerpts from email by:

          Dave Jackson ([e-mail])
          Chris J. Moss ([e-mail])
          Adam Woolfe ([e-mail])

that I quoted extensively in a recent article, "Seeing Eye-To-Eye"
(about the Poles Apart sound-clip).  I think this new posting gets
me caught up on passing along information.  Once again, many thanks
are due to them for all this information!

- -----
From:    MX%"[e-mail]" (Adam Woolfe)
Subj:    High Hopes

   I've seen the HH video now and isn't it weird? After the simple theme
in TIB there is just too much in HH - I wonder what it all means! Anyway
the academic thing is clearly very prominent - there were several scenes
shot in the university at St John's College. And things like bicycle
riding and punting are all very academia associated around here.

[about the waterways seen in High Hopes:]
The only river shots I've seen in the video are of the Cam in Cambridge,
ie the 2 bridges (Bridge of Sighs and a footbridge to the south of the
city) and the punting scene which seems to be the Cam (although it isn't
shown very clearly). The very beginning of the video was chopped off and
so I haven't seen what you describe as the opening scene but I can believe
The Great Ouse is visible in the distance. The ditch by the car looks very
much like the place I was at in the summer and the track had a bend in it
of about the right amount as far as I can remember.

 The building behind the up-ended box of apples isn't a university
building that I know of ... The house is pretty typical sort of
architecture for Cambridge.

[It was since posted that the house is one where Gilmour once lived.]


[Regarding my not having recognized the Bridge of Sighs in the video:]

[...] The bridge connects the 2 halves of St Johns and parts of the
college both sides of the river are seen in the video. Actually now you
mention it (and this hadn't occurred to me), because you can't see the
water I suppose there's no way of telling from the video that it actually
*is* a bridge! Anyway it appears for about 10s or so with both flavour
balloon bouncing along it. The bridge floor is made of stone with black
grills in the stone sides and there is a stone roof.

[...] I recognise all the old buildings shown in the video and they are
all definitely in St Johns, Cambridge. Probably the only Cambridge
college with an Ely connection is my own, Peterhouse, which was founded
by the Bishop of Ely in 1284.


[Regarding www site http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/misc/uk/dorset.html:]

 You're in luck there seeing as my best friend has just finished a PhD
at the above address (lots of email back and forth) and so I can say with
no problem that the source is the Computer Science dept at University
College London. This is the oldest college (out of 3 or 4 big ones) in
London University and is pretty much a university in its own right.


[Regarding the pictures of the Dorset coast at that www site:]

[...] I've looked at the picture now (looks familiar now I see it - it
is quite well known so not so surprising to see it in that directory of
British places and beauty spots) but I'm confused cos 'the Door' is
clearly *not* in my version of CBTL artwork!!

[I've figured out that the camera positions for both U.S. and U.K.
 Coming Back to Life art were east of Durdle Door, adjacent to it.]





- -----
From:    MX%"[e-mail]"  (Chris)
Subj:    Re: Cambridge


[Regarding my question as to the appearance of Cambridge bus stop signs:]

As regards bus stop signs, those here in Cambridge are boring rectangles
saying such useful things as 'BUS STOP' ;-).

I think what you have seen [in a Monty Python video] is the London
Transport roundel logo which is a bit of a national monument.

I have to be honest, what little I know of this Publius thing makes me
think its a big wind-up! I think someone's having a bit of fun but if you
have evidence to the contrary please let me know!




- -----
From:    MX%"[e-mail]"  (David Jackson)
Subj:    Re: Cambridge location questions


[...] Ely is, as you say, deep in the fens, and is an excellent
place to errect 20-odd feet tall statues for a week to take photos,
etc (I actually saw the statues earlier this year - I frequently travel
from Ipswich (where I am now) to Peterborough by train. The railway
takes an odd route through Ely - from the South east, then north,
before heading off to the north west, and eventually the west. The
statues were to the east of Ely station, which is on the eastern edge
of the town (or rather city). It's possible to recognise the tree's from
the cover, and the Take It Back pages of the booklet from the railway.
( You get a similar view when travelling up from Cambridge which is
almost due south of Ely). However it's not really the sort of place
anyone goes without a reason. I don't really think it would have figured
large in DGs childhood/youth. (It's a good place for a day trip if you're
in the area though - very quaint, some good pubs, loads of old buildings,
and the cathederal of course)

I wonder if Storm Thorgason (sp?) lives in the area ?

[He's from Cambridge, which may explain the photo and video locations.]


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