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  211. <div class="content_text">[MD1] MacUser interviews Avie  Tevanian</div>
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  225.  
  226.   <div class="left_inner_box_heading"><h1>[MD1] MacUser interviews Avie  Tevanian</h1></div>
  227.  
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  233.  
  234.                    
  235.     
  236.  <p>Sorry for the long piece, but this seemed interesting.  It's an interview<br />
  237. by Andrew Gore of MacUser of Avie Tevanian.</p>
  238. <p>Neil Ticktin<br />
  239. MacTech Magazine<br />
  240. <a href="mailto:publisher@mactech.com">publisher@mactech.com</a></p>
  241. <p><a href="http://www.mactech.com" title="http://www.mactech.com">http://www.mactech.com</a></p>
  242. <p>-------------------------------------------------------</p>
  243. <p>MacUser Online February 24, 1997</p>
  244. <p>A tough year awaits Avie Tevanian, former vice president of engineering  at<br />
  245. NeXT Software. Recently anointed as Apple's senior vice president,  system<br />
  246. software engineering, Tevanian has what is quite possibly the  most<br />
  247. challenging job in the computer industry: creating the next Mac  OS.<br />
  248. MacUser Editor Andrew Gore sat down with him to get his take on  Rhapsody<br />
  249. (Apple's code name for its upcoming operating system) and on  the rumors<br />
  250. that future PCs may come equipped with a "Mac Inside" sticker.</p>
  251. <p>MacUser: Avie, I wanted to start off with a basic question: In the new<br />
  252. organization in Apple, what part of the OS organization are you<br />
  253. responsible for?</p>
  254. <p>Tevanian: I'll be responsible for the Rhapsody product and all the<br />
  255. deliverables that fall out of that. So that's essentially the new modern<br />
  256. OS that Apple's building based on the NeXT technology that they've just<br />
  257. acquired, and based on integrating in some of the key pieces of their<br />
  258. existing technologies. And I'll also be responsible for the ongoing<br />
  259. projects we've had at NeXT, including things like our WebObjects<br />
  260. technology.</p>
  261. <p>Could you take a few more minutes and just explain what Rhapsody is?  We've<br />
  262. heard a lot of stories about Rhapsody, and we've written a couple<br />
  263. ourselves. From your standpoint, what is Rhapsody?</p>
  264. <p>Rhapsody is, at a high level, basically the future operating system for<br />
  265. Apple. It's the next generation in the evolution of operating systems  at<br />
  266. Apple, and it's the piece of technology that's going to take Apple  into<br />
  267. the 21st century with computing.</p>
  268. <p>More specifically, Rhapsody is a modern operating system. It has all  the<br />
  269. features that you expect of a modern operating system, like  symmetric<br />
  270. multi-processing, multi-tasking, memory protection, all those  types of<br />
  271. things, and it does all those things in not only a modern way,  but a very<br />
  272. good way compared to the way other systems on the market do  today. So it's<br />
  273. definitely best-of-breed in all those categories.</p>
  274. <p>But it's much more than that. It's a set of APIs that exist above the  core<br />
  275. operating system that make it very easy for developers to write new<br />
  276. applications. It's a compatibility system -- which we call the Blue Box  --<br />
  277. which allows customers to run old Macintosh applications compatibly  on<br />
  278. PowerPC platforms. And it's an advanced look and feel that people  expect<br />
  279. when they use a Macintosh.</p>
  280. <p>There's been some talk about combining the Mac OS look and feel with<br />
  281. NeXT's look and feel. In your mind, what currently exists in the NeXT  look<br />
  282. and feel that you'd like to see carried over into Rhapsody? When  somebody<br />
  283. boots up this machine, what should it feel like? Should it feel  like a<br />
  284. Macintosh or should it feel like a NeXT machine?</p>
  285. <p>The issue here stems from the fact that both the Macintosh and Nextstep<br />
  286. have very good user experiences.</p>
  287. <p>But they're a little different, too.</p>
  288. <p>They are a little bit different, but conceptually they're very similar  and<br />
  289. they're both very good. Our goal is that when we ship the final  product,<br />
  290. people feel as though they're getting the Macintosh experience  -- it's<br />
  291. really to use, things work the way they expect them to, and they  have no<br />
  292. complaints about the user interface.</p>
  293. <p>To get there, what we need to do is we need to acknowledge that both  the<br />
  294. Macintosh of today and Nextstep of today have major strengths. I  think<br />
  295. every one of your readers understands the strengths of the  Macintosh user<br />
  296. interface. They probably don't understand NextStep's as  well, but to give<br />
  297. you a flavor for the power, the Nextstep user  interface has been more<br />
  298. designed to match a multitasking environment.  [In that scheme] it works<br />
  299. work better than, say, a Macintosh.</p>
  300. <p>So our goal here is to take the best paradigms from both and put them<br />
  301. together in a way that makes sense -- not just arbitrarily mix them.  We'll<br />
  302. put them together in a way that makes sense, and have the best of  both<br />
  303. worlds.</p>
  304. <p>Let's take a specific example. The most obvious aspect of the NeXT<br />
  305. interface that's different than the Mac is the Dock. Do you see the Dock<br />
  306. being something that you'd want to have in the Rhapsody interface?</p>
  307. <p>I think that's a good example. We haven't completely decided if the  Dock<br />
  308. will or will not be there, but that's a great example where both  Apple and<br />
  309. NeXT have looked at the various products and agreed: gee, the  Dock is one<br />
  310. of the things that doesn't exist on the Macintosh today,  but that we<br />
  311. should probably really consider making sure is part of the  final product.<br />
  312. That's the kind of thing we're doing.</p>
  313. <p>Could you take a minute and talk about the Rhapsody schedule? There's  been<br />
  314. a public schedule, and it's been pretty specific. As the guy who's<br />
  315. ultimately going to be expected to deliver this, what is your confidence<br />
  316. is in that schedule? What should users' expectations should be for what<br />
  317. they'll have, what they'll be able to do with it, and when?</p>
  318. <p>We have three major milestones in our planned rollout. The first one,<br />
  319. which will occur around the middle of the year, will be our Developer<br />
  320. Release. The goal of this release is to seed developers with the APIs,  so<br />
  321. they can start creating applications that will run when the final  product<br />
  322. ships.</p>
  323. <p>So that's the goal of that. It's not in general release to lots of<br />
  324. different customers. It's for developers and for really, really early<br />
  325. adopters who want to get a look at the technology and just understand  it.</p>
  326. <p>So, for example, the new interface won't be there at that point?</p>
  327. <p>Certainly not in its final form. There may be a few simple things that<br />
  328. we've already adjusted for, but there's clearly no goal to make that be<br />
  329. the user interface that's going to be final.</p>
  330. <p>Next is the Premier Release. The Premier Release will get out by early<br />
  331. next year, which means in the January/February time frame. We would  like<br />
  332. to get it out by the end of 1997 if we can, but we hesitate to  commit to<br />
  333. that, because it's still a little bit far out. The goal of the  Premier<br />
  334. Release is to be a fairly solid release, so that early adopters  can start<br />
  335. to use it, evaluate it. And it will have the first public  version of<br />
  336. support for Blue Box (the part of the upcoming operating  system that will<br />
  337. run System 7.x applications).</p>
  338. <p>So in terms of what, if you were going to make a recommendation to a<br />
  339. friend or family member, what would you tell they should be able to do<br />
  340. with the Premier Release or not do? In other words, what will it be good<br />
  341. for? Is it basically just for evaluation, or do you think people will be<br />
  342. able to do productive work with it?</p>
  343. <p>I think people will certainly be able to do productive work unless they<br />
  344. depend on a Mac OS application that won't be supported by the Blue Box  in<br />
  345. that timeframe. And it's hard to predict exactly which ones will or  won't,<br />
  346. but that would be probably the big thing that would come to mind,  that<br />
  347. they wouldn't be able to do at that point in time.</p>
  348. <p>But other than that, everything should be clearly functional. There may  be<br />
  349. some pieces of the UI that are still subject to revision, but we'll  have<br />
  350. at least some of the changes, maybe most of the changes, done by  that<br />
  351. timeframe.</p>
  352. <p>Along those lines, we will complete the Rhapsody rollout in the middle  of<br />
  353. next year. This will be the Unified Release, which is the complete  Yellow<br />
  354. Box (the new Rhapsody API), the complete Blue Box -- everything  fully<br />
  355. functional, fully supported. At that point, anyone ought to be  able to use<br />
  356. Rhapsody without any restrictions.</p>
  357. <p>What is Rhapsody going to offer developers to induce them to port their<br />
  358. applications to Yellow Box and not just rely on Blue Box?</p>
  359. <p>A number of things. First of all, from a technical perspective, the  Yellow<br />
  360. Box frameworks are very powerful, making it extremely easy to  build very<br />
  361. nice applications very quickly. For example, if you're a  small development<br />
  362. shop and you want to do something to change the world,  you're going to be<br />
  363. able to bring your new application to market for far  less cost and much<br />
  364. quicker with Rhapsody technologies. You can focus on  what your idea is and<br />
  365. your added value instead of how to make menus  work.</p>
  366. <p>Now, combined with that needs to be the business case, if you will. So  the<br />
  367. technology will be very compelling. What's the business case going  to be?<br />
  368. Well, first of all, we will absolutely be leveraging Apple's  volumes,<br />
  369. which is in the millions, and in a lot of markets, for example,  the<br />
  370. publishing market, the Macintosh owns that. If you have an idea in  the<br />
  371. publishing market, Macintosh is without question your best bet.</p>
  372. <p>In addition, we'll be making the APIs and the tools available<br />
  373. cross-platform. So as you're developing for Rhapsody, you're not limited<br />
  374. just to Apple's customer base. You can now also go after NT-based  systems<br />
  375. or even sell the software for PCs running Rhapsody.</p>
  376. <p>So you're saying you'll be able to develop a Rhapsody application using<br />
  377. the tools that will be available, and it will be a simple matter to run<br />
  378. that same application on either NT or Macintosh?</p>
  379. <p>That's absolutely correct.</p>
  380. <p>You touched on publishing for a minute. It has, obviously it's a big<br />
  381. stronghold for the Macintosh. It's also a very entrenched marketplace.  You<br />
  382. can still go out in publishing houses and find linotypes in use.  What are<br />
  383. you going to do to make Rhapsody attractive to this very  entrenched<br />
  384. marketplace, so that they will make the conversion sooner  rather than<br />
  385. later?</p>
  386. <p>One of the things that might be most interesting to the customers you<br />
  387. describe is the Blue Box support. And so what will happen is all the<br />
  388. applications they're using today on their Macs will continue to work.  But<br />
  389. it's more than that, because since they're running in the context of  the<br />
  390. Blue Box inside of Rhapsody, they gain all the benefits of Rhapsody<br />
  391. itself, so they get the advantages of the powerful core OS underneath,<br />
  392. which is going to actually, in many instances, make their applications  run<br />
  393. faster. They'll gain more protection.</p>
  394. <p>Certainly if you have a native Rhapsody application that uses the  Yellow<br />
  395. Box, and you have a problem with that application, it's not  going to crash<br />
  396. the Blue Box. If you have a Blue Box application that  crashes, it's not<br />
  397. going to crash the Yellow application.</p>
  398. <p>So it's a very nice transition path for these customers who are slow to<br />
  399. move, by simply focusing on running applications first in the Blue Box,<br />
  400. interacting with new applications in the Yellow Box, and doing the<br />
  401. transition between the two.</p>
  402. <p>What's your expectation of the performance of the Blue Box?</p>
  403. <p>Our indications at this point are that applications running inside the<br />
  404. Blue Box should run at least as fast as they do today, if not faster.  And<br />
  405. that has been the experience with people who have used MAE (the  Macintosh<br />
  406. Application Environment for UNIX) in the past, and we think  that will<br />
  407. carry forward with the Blue Box.</p>
  408. <p>The Blue Box is not MAE technology, right?</p>
  409. <p>That's right. Blue Box is not MAE. Blue Box is an environment, but it's<br />
  410. not an emulation environment. It is an environment in which System 7  runs.</p>
  411. <p>It's a virtual machine.</p>
  412. <p>It's a virtual machine, yes.</p>
  413. <p>So it's actually very similar to the way Windows 95 runs Windows 3.1  apps.</p>
  414. <p>Yeah. I wouldn't say that they're exactly the same, but in spirit  they're<br />
  415. very similar.</p>
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  686.                 <span class="field-content">Introducing the App Hall of Fame!</span>
  687.   </div>
  688.   
  689.   
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  691.                 <div class="field-content"><div class="body-row" id="body-row-213485"><div style="background:#F5F5F5;">App discoverability continues to be a real issue.  With the fast churn of apps in the App Store, an app has only a few weeks of promotional life in it before it‚Äôs largely forgotten.  There are a few things developers can do to fix that, but those... | Read more »</div></div></div>
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  699.                 <span class="field-content">Gobliiins Are Coming</span>
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  702.   
  703.   <div class="views-field-body">
  704.                 <div class="field-content"><div class="body-row" id="body-row-213486"><div style="background:#F5F5F5;">In the midst of the huge Q4 launch schedule, the cult classic, Gobliiins, as well as the rest of the trilogy, are being ported to the iPhone in all of their original glory. The Goblins trilogy was a quirky Atari/Amiga game series from the early 90‚Äôs... | Read more »</div></div></div>
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  727.   
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  730.                 <div class="field-content"><div class="body-row" id="body-row-213470"><div style="background:#F5F5F5;">Developer: Dustlab
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  732. Version Reviewed: 2.4.7
  733. iPhone Integration Rating: 3 out of 5 stars
  734. User Interface Rating: 4 out of 5 stars
  735. Re-use / Replay Value Rating: 3 out of 5 stars
  736. Overall Rating: 3.33 out of 5 stars
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  747.   
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  755.   
  756.   
  757.   <div class="views-field-title">
  758.                 <span class="field-content">Pocketbooth Review</span>
  759.   </div>
  760.   
  761.   
  762.   <div class="views-field-body">
  763.                 <div class="field-content"><div class="body-row" id="body-row-213472"><div style="background:#F5F5F5;">Developer: Project Box
  764. Price: $0.99
  765. Version Reviewed: 1.0
  766. iPhone Integration Rating: 4 out of 5 stars
  767. User Interface Rating: 4 out of 5 stars
  768. Re-use / Replay Value Rating: 4.5 out of 5 stars
  769. Overall Rating: 4.17 out of 5 stars
  770.  | Read more »</div></div></div>
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  776.   
  777.   <div class="views-field-title">
  778.                 <span class="field-content">Get Your Roast Right With ‚ÄòTime To Roast...</span>
  779.   </div>
  780.   
  781.   
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  783.                 <div class="field-content"><div class="body-row" id="body-row-213473"><div style="background:#F5F5F5;">Roasting meat, in the cooking world, is about as simple as it gets. The greatest roast recipe I‚Äôve ever found is from Michael Ruhlman‚Äôs website, with the recipe titled, ‚ÄúThe World‚Äôs Most Difficult Roasted Chicken Recipe.‚Äù | Read more »</div></div></div>
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  899.     <td width="66" class="red_text">Nov. 20:</td>
  900.     <td width="505" class="blue_text" onclick="showLoginDiv()"><a
  901.       href="javascript:void(0);">Take Control of Syncing Data in Sow
  902.     Leopard' released</a></td>
  903.     <td width="17"><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13"
  904.       alt="" /></td>
  905.   </tr>
  906.   <tr>
  907.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 19:</td>
  908.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Cocktail 4.5 (Leopard Edition)
  909.     released</a></td>
  910.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  911.   </tr>
  912.   <tr>
  913.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 19:</td>
  914.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">macProVideo offers new Cubase
  915.     tutorials</a></td>
  916.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  917.   </tr>
  918.   <tr>
  919.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 18:</td>
  920.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">S Stardom anounces Safe Capsule, a
  921.     companion piece for Apple's</a></td>
  922.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  923.   </tr>
  924.   <tr>
  925.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  926.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  927.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  928.   </tr>
  929.   <tr>
  930.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  931.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  932.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  933.   </tr>
  934.   <tr>
  935.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  936.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  937.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  938.   </tr>
  939.   <tr>
  940.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  941.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  942.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  943.   </tr>
  944.   <tr>
  945.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  946.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  947.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  948.   </tr>
  949.   <tr>
  950.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  951.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  952.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  953.   </tr>
  954.   <tr>
  955.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  956.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  957.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  958.   </tr>
  959.   <tr>
  960.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  961.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  962.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  963.   </tr>
  964.   <tr>
  965.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  966.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  967.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  968.   </tr>
  969.   <tr>
  970.     <td class="red_text">Nov. 17:</td>
  971.     <td class="blue_text"><a href="#">Ableton releases Max for Live</a></td>
  972.     <td><img src="images/erow.gif" width="13" height="13" alt="" /></td>
  973.   </tr>
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  983. <div id="newuser-popup" style="font-size:14px">Greetings, and welcome to the new MacTech web site! Our home page is designed to be your <cite>Industry Dashboard</cite> -- so you can have a snapshot of all that's relevant in the industry in one easy location.  Many readers tell us that because the information is updated so frequently, they are now checking the site multiple times a day.
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  987. <LI>Registering for the site allows you greater functionality.
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  989. <LI>Below that are MacTech's scanners, which scan the web and organizes it into News, Rumors, and Documentation.  Updated every 15 minutes.
  990. <LI>Our Whitepapers, Screencasts, and Videos section give you insight into great products
  991. <LI>The Community Search narrows your search to the most relevant of Apple related sites for better results
  992. <LI>The forums give you a place to ask questions, and share your knowledge.
  993. <LI>Our partners at MacUpdate, MacPrices.net and the Jobs Boards keep you up to date
  994. <LI>Want to see all the news in one big list?  Check out our new  <a href="/firehose">Information Firehose</a>
  995. <LI>And, don't forget the Apple Central area, and ads throughout the site.  Advertisers are what make the site possible</UL>
  996. We truly hope you <a href="/register">register</a> so that we can keep you up to date about new features as they are implemented.   And, please use the BETA button in the top right to provide us any feedback, suggestions or bugs.  We love to hear from you. </div>
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