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<p>A tough year awaits Avie Tevanian, former vice president of engineering at<br />
NeXT Software. Recently anointed as Apple's senior vice president, system<br />
software engineering, Tevanian has what is quite possibly the most<br />
challenging job in the computer industry: creating the next Mac OS.<br />
MacUser Editor Andrew Gore sat down with him to get his take on Rhapsody<br />
(Apple's code name for its upcoming operating system) and on the rumors<br />
that future PCs may come equipped with a "Mac Inside" sticker.</p>
<p>MacUser: Avie, I wanted to start off with a basic question: In the new<br />
organization in Apple, what part of the OS organization are you<br />
responsible for?</p>
<p>Tevanian: I'll be responsible for the Rhapsody product and all the<br />
deliverables that fall out of that. So that's essentially the new modern<br />
OS that Apple's building based on the NeXT technology that they've just<br />
acquired, and based on integrating in some of the key pieces of their<br />
existing technologies. And I'll also be responsible for the ongoing<br />
projects we've had at NeXT, including things like our WebObjects<br />
technology.</p>
<p>Could you take a few more minutes and just explain what Rhapsody is? We've<br />
heard a lot of stories about Rhapsody, and we've written a couple<br />
ourselves. From your standpoint, what is Rhapsody?</p>
<p>Rhapsody is, at a high level, basically the future operating system for<br />
Apple. It's the next generation in the evolution of operating systems at<br />
Apple, and it's the piece of technology that's going to take Apple into<br />
the 21st century with computing.</p>
<p>More specifically, Rhapsody is a modern operating system. It has all the<br />
features that you expect of a modern operating system, like symmetric<br />
multi-processing, multi-tasking, memory protection, all those types of<br />
things, and it does all those things in not only a modern way, but a very<br />
good way compared to the way other systems on the market do today. So it's<br />
definitely best-of-breed in all those categories.</p>
<p>But it's much more than that. It's a set of APIs that exist above the core<br />
operating system that make it very easy for developers to write new<br />
applications. It's a compatibility system -- which we call the Blue Box --<br />
which allows customers to run old Macintosh applications compatibly on<br />
PowerPC platforms. And it's an advanced look and feel that people expect<br />
when they use a Macintosh.</p>
<p>There's been some talk about combining the Mac OS look and feel with<br />
NeXT's look and feel. In your mind, what currently exists in the NeXT look<br />
and feel that you'd like to see carried over into Rhapsody? When somebody<br />
boots up this machine, what should it feel like? Should it feel like a<br />
Macintosh or should it feel like a NeXT machine?</p>
<p>The issue here stems from the fact that both the Macintosh and Nextstep<br />
have very good user experiences.</p>
<p>But they're a little different, too.</p>
<p>They are a little bit different, but conceptually they're very similar and<br />
they're both very good. Our goal is that when we ship the final product,<br />
people feel as though they're getting the Macintosh experience -- it's<br />
really to use, things work the way they expect them to, and they have no<br />
complaints about the user interface.</p>
<p>To get there, what we need to do is we need to acknowledge that both the<br />
Macintosh of today and Nextstep of today have major strengths. I think<br />
every one of your readers understands the strengths of the Macintosh user<br />
interface. They probably don't understand NextStep's as well, but to give<br />
you a flavor for the power, the Nextstep user interface has been more<br />
designed to match a multitasking environment. [In that scheme] it works<br />
work better than, say, a Macintosh.</p>
<p>So our goal here is to take the best paradigms from both and put them<br />
together in a way that makes sense -- not just arbitrarily mix them. We'll<br />
put them together in a way that makes sense, and have the best of both<br />
worlds.</p>
<p>Let's take a specific example. The most obvious aspect of the NeXT<br />
interface that's different than the Mac is the Dock. Do you see the Dock<br />
being something that you'd want to have in the Rhapsody interface?</p>
<p>I think that's a good example. We haven't completely decided if the Dock<br />
will or will not be there, but that's a great example where both Apple and<br />
NeXT have looked at the various products and agreed: gee, the Dock is one<br />
of the things that doesn't exist on the Macintosh today, but that we<br />
should probably really consider making sure is part of the final product.<br />
That's the kind of thing we're doing.</p>
<p>Could you take a minute and talk about the Rhapsody schedule? There's been<br />
a public schedule, and it's been pretty specific. As the guy who's<br />
ultimately going to be expected to deliver this, what is your confidence<br />
is in that schedule? What should users' expectations should be for what<br />
they'll have, what they'll be able to do with it, and when?</p>
<p>We have three major milestones in our planned rollout. The first one,<br />
which will occur around the middle of the year, will be our Developer<br />
Release. The goal of this release is to seed developers with the APIs, so<br />
they can start creating applications that will run when the final product<br />
ships.</p>
<p>So that's the goal of that. It's not in general release to lots of<br />
different customers. It's for developers and for really, really early<br />
adopters who want to get a look at the technology and just understand it.</p>
<p>So, for example, the new interface won't be there at that point?</p>
<p>Certainly not in its final form. There may be a few simple things that<br />
we've already adjusted for, but there's clearly no goal to make that be<br />
the user interface that's going to be final.</p>
<p>Next is the Premier Release. The Premier Release will get out by early<br />
next year, which means in the January/February time frame. We would like<br />
to get it out by the end of 1997 if we can, but we hesitate to commit to<br />
that, because it's still a little bit far out. The goal of the Premier<br />
Release is to be a fairly solid release, so that early adopters can start<br />
to use it, evaluate it. And it will have the first public version of<br />
support for Blue Box (the part of the upcoming operating system that will<br />
run System 7.x applications).</p>
<p>So in terms of what, if you were going to make a recommendation to a<br />
friend or family member, what would you tell they should be able to do<br />
with the Premier Release or not do? In other words, what will it be good<br />
for? Is it basically just for evaluation, or do you think people will be<br />
able to do productive work with it?</p>
<p>I think people will certainly be able to do productive work unless they<br />
depend on a Mac OS application that won't be supported by the Blue Box in<br />
that timeframe. And it's hard to predict exactly which ones will or won't,<br />
but that would be probably the big thing that would come to mind, that<br />
they wouldn't be able to do at that point in time.</p>
<p>But other than that, everything should be clearly functional. There may be<br />
some pieces of the UI that are still subject to revision, but we'll have<br />
at least some of the changes, maybe most of the changes, done by that<br />
timeframe.</p>
<p>Along those lines, we will complete the Rhapsody rollout in the middle of<br />
next year. This will be the Unified Release, which is the complete Yellow<br />
Box (the new Rhapsody API), the complete Blue Box -- everything fully<br />
functional, fully supported. At that point, anyone ought to be able to use<br />
Rhapsody without any restrictions.</p>
<p>What is Rhapsody going to offer developers to induce them to port their<br />
applications to Yellow Box and not just rely on Blue Box?</p>
<p>A number of things. First of all, from a technical perspective, the Yellow<br />
Box frameworks are very powerful, making it extremely easy to build very<br />
nice applications very quickly. For example, if you're a small development<br />
shop and you want to do something to change the world, you're going to be<br />
able to bring your new application to market for far less cost and much<br />
quicker with Rhapsody technologies. You can focus on what your idea is and<br />
your added value instead of how to make menus work.</p>
<p>Now, combined with that needs to be the business case, if you will. So the<br />
technology will be very compelling. What's the business case going to be?<br />
Well, first of all, we will absolutely be leveraging Apple's volumes,<br />
which is in the millions, and in a lot of markets, for example, the<br />
publishing market, the Macintosh owns that. If you have an idea in the<br />
publishing market, Macintosh is without question your best bet.</p>
<p>In addition, we'll be making the APIs and the tools available<br />
cross-platform. So as you're developing for Rhapsody, you're not limited<br />
just to Apple's customer base. You can now also go after NT-based systems<br />
or even sell the software for PCs running Rhapsody.</p>
<p>So you're saying you'll be able to develop a Rhapsody application using<br />
the tools that will be available, and it will be a simple matter to run<br />
that same application on either NT or Macintosh?</p>
<p>That's absolutely correct.</p>
<p>You touched on publishing for a minute. It has, obviously it's a big<br />
stronghold for the Macintosh. It's also a very entrenched marketplace. You<br />
can still go out in publishing houses and find linotypes in use. What are<br />
you going to do to make Rhapsody attractive to this very entrenched<br />
marketplace, so that they will make the conversion sooner rather than<br />
later?</p>
<p>One of the things that might be most interesting to the customers you<br />
describe is the Blue Box support. And so what will happen is all the<br />
applications they're using today on their Macs will continue to work. But<br />
it's more than that, because since they're running in the context of the<br />
Blue Box inside of Rhapsody, they gain all the benefits of Rhapsody<br />
itself, so they get the advantages of the powerful core OS underneath,<br />
which is going to actually, in many instances, make their applications run<br />
faster. They'll gain more protection.</p>
<p>Certainly if you have a native Rhapsody application that uses the Yellow<br />
Box, and you have a problem with that application, it's not going to crash<br />
the Blue Box. If you have a Blue Box application that crashes, it's not<br />
going to crash the Yellow application.</p>
<p>So it's a very nice transition path for these customers who are slow to<br />
move, by simply focusing on running applications first in the Blue Box,<br />
interacting with new applications in the Yellow Box, and doing the<br />
transition between the two.</p>
<p>What's your expectation of the performance of the Blue Box?</p>
<p>Our indications at this point are that applications running inside the<br />
Blue Box should run at least as fast as they do today, if not faster. And<br />
that has been the experience with people who have used MAE (the Macintosh<br />
Application Environment for UNIX) in the past, and we think that will<br />
carry forward with the Blue Box.</p>
<p>The Blue Box is not MAE technology, right?</p>
<p>That's right. Blue Box is not MAE. Blue Box is an environment, but it's<br />
not an emulation environment. It is an environment in which System 7 runs.</p>
<p>It's a virtual machine.</p>
<p>It's a virtual machine, yes.</p>
<p>So it's actually very similar to the way Windows 95 runs Windows 3.1 apps.</p>
<p>Yeah. I wouldn't say that they're exactly the same, but in spirit they're<br />
very similar.</p>
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