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$Unique_ID{bob01226}
$Pretitle{}
$Title{Nixon Tapes, The
April 19, 1973. (8:26pm - 9:32pm)}
$Subtitle{}
$Author{Various}
$Affiliation{}
$Subject{nixon
pres
wilson
unintelligible
yes
strickler
now
that's
say
right}
$Date{1974}
$Log{}
Title: Nixon Tapes, The
Author: Various
Date: 1974
April 19, 1973. (8:26pm - 9:32pm)
Meeting: President Nixon, John Wilson and Frank Strickler, EOB Office
Pres. Nixon: This is my EOB Office where I do a lot of -
J. Wilson: Yes, We were - you know those initials that we were
Pres. Nixon: This is where I do most of my speech writing -
F. Strickler: We saw your Oval room tonight.
Pres. Nixon: What's that?
F. Strickler: I said, "We saw your Oval Office tonight."
Pres. Nixon: Oh, you were over there? You hadn't seen it before?
F. Strickler: No.
J. Wilson: No. I've never been in it.
Pres. Nixon: My gosh.
J. Wilson: You know we are local boys here and -
Pres. Nixon: You are going to get to see the things that tourists see -
J. Wilson: Yes. One of our dear friends is a dear friend of yours and that
is the Marriotts.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, aren't they great people?
J. Wilson: Aren't they? We have represented them for years - until young
Bill got so he wanted large out-of-town law firms.
Pres. Nixon: Foolish.
J. Wilson: But Bill and Ollie and I have been - I have been friends with them
forty years; they are the sweetest people in the world.
Pres. Nixon: Well, they are really fine Americans, and you know. - And gee
whiz, they don't drink themselves but they make a lot out of
selling it.
-------------------------
Laughter
-------------------------
F. Strickler: There was a time when they didn't do that, as you well know.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, I know and it's interesting they were telling me that they
had a custom now in some of their houses where they - where
they reserve a couple of floors for people who don't smoke.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: So - people who come - incidentally, do you guys smoke?
F. Strickler: I gave it up.
J. Wilson: I never started.
F. Strickler: five or six years ago. I feel that -
Pres. Nixon: You didn't start? Cigarettes or -
F. Strickler: I was a cigarette smoker - about three packs a day. When I
gave them up, I missed them. I was a hopeless addict
J. Wilson: I never smoked in my life.
Pres. Nixon: Like some coffee? Uh? Coffee or Sanka?
J. Wilson: A little Sanka - would be nice.
F. Strickler: Coffee.
Pres. Nixon: Coffee or Sanka? I have Sanka, I guess, Manolo?
J. Mitchell: Yes Sir.
Pres. Nixon: Get a little sleep tonight.
J. Wilson: I don't guess you get very much. (Laughter)
Pres. Nixon: Yet all of our other problems we've got - we've got the one
you've got.
J. Wilson: Yes. We admire you so much; that we both are dyed-in-the-wool
Republicans. I was just telling Bob Haldeman that I joined the
party years ago. I said, "No sign of beating Calvin Coolidge
with a liberal."
-------------------------
Laughter
-------------------------
Pres. Nixon: Well, tell me where it stands and -
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: And, if you will, both from the standpoint of the people you are
representing and from the standpoint of the Presidency, which,
of course, we got to (unintelligible) and I -
J. Wilson: I can tell you (unintelligible)
Pres. Nixon: Oh, sure, one of those things where people with tho best of
intentions - I mean everybody. John Mitchell I love.
J. Wilson: Of course.
Pres. Nixon: He did things here, you know, that were (unintelligible) on a
less, here we have people who got involved - tangentially.
Really an
J. Wilson: We have had three day - three different daily sessions with Bob
and John.
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Wilson: And two today. And two were -
Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible)
J. Wilson: by our visit to the District Attorney's office.
Pres. Nixon: Right
J. Wilson: This afternoon. Uh - We want to first, go over the Bob situation.
He's written a memo of things which boils down the sensitive
area -
Pres. Nixon: You're talking about Haldeman now.
J. Wilson: - boils down to Bob - boils down to the matter of $350,000.
Pres. Nixon: Three fifty - right. I am aware of that.
J. Wilson: And what knowledge he had
Pres. Nixon: And I have questioned him very thoroughly on all things myself.
J. Wilson: - Uh - I'm sure you have and he said that Dean had come to him and
told him of the need of this money.
Pres. Nixon: For what purpose?
J. Wilson: To help alleviate families and legal counsel of the Watergate
people.
Pres. Nixon: All right.
J. Wilson: And that was one occasion. Later on, when the money was
transferred over to the Committee, he just wanted to be rid of
it. And he had no intention as to where it might go. And - uh
- that's that. Now we said to him that we don't doubt that -
about the truthfulness and what parties in these two effects
(unintelligible) We said, "Circumstantially, if it be wrong to
have done this, a jury might think that he did it with
(unintelligible).
Pres. Nixon: If what? If what? That it would look -
J. Wilson: It'd look like it to an impartial jury.
Pres. Nixon: When you put it to a jury it looks like - it's just very
questionable?
J. Wilson: Yes. Yes.
F. Strickler: Depending upon how the testimony comes out of the various
people, it could become an issue.
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Wilson: Now that we - he said, "But wait a minute. What is this sin?
What is wrong with this?" Well, by a far stretch, this might
be something of accessory after the fact to a conspiracy at the
Watergate. This, Mr. President. -
Pres. Nixon: Accessory? For what? For the purpose of?
J. Wilson: Of sort of aiding the consequences. I gave an example of Dr.
Mudd. -
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: - in the John Wilkes Boothe case.
Pres. Nixon: Just got that pardon.
J. Wilson: Yes. I pointed out that he didn't commit the crime but he did
sort of aid in the thing afterwards.
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Wilson: Uh.
Pres. Nixon: Now, I suppose - it was evident? I suppose there, too, the
motive as to whether he gave it to Dean with the knowledge and
with the intent of keeping the defendants quiet. That -
J. Wilson: That would be the argument. Uh -
Pres. Nixon: The argument of the prosecution?
J. Wilson: Yes.
F. Strickler: Exactly. Now, we don't know what Dean will say on this.
Pres. Nixon: Well, I guess you don't because he is involved himself.
F. Strickler: Yes, this is right.
J. Wilson: But -
Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible) you've got to.
F. Strickler: We assume the worst. In our thinking, we assume the worst.
Pres. Nixon: Exactly. Absolutely.
J. Wilson: Now, we are old prosecutors, Mr. President.
Pres. Nixon: Good.
J. Wilson: And we think that this is not a case, according to our standards.
This is not an indictable case against Bob. On the other hand,
bear in mind that we have got a group of zealots - uh,
particularly in Seymour Glanzer who is a fire-eating
prosecutor, and uh - these zealots always shoot for the top.
Pres. Nixon: Sure.
J. Wilson: And they are not always conscientious enough to, uh -
Pres. Nixon: To see what's wrong about it.
J. Wilson: Whether it's a convicting case of whether it's -
Pres. Nixon: In other words, they may indict even though they don't think
they can (unintelligible)
J. Wilson: That's it exactly. I couldn't - we couldn't exclude the
possibility that the prosecutors might take this up. On the
other hand, we - we - we don't think it amounts to a criminal
case in a practical sense.
Pres. Nixon: In other words, if it goes to a court - you - whoever tries it -
you think you might be able to defend him?
F. Strickler: On the evidence that we how have, yes.
J. Wilson: Yes. That's our feeling.
Pres. Nixon: Now, that's (unintelligible).
J. Wilson: I want you to know we are guessing at this, Mr. President.
Pres. Nixon: The letter to LaRue - was it to LaRue?
F. Strickler: Yes.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: The letter to LaRue - was in one sense a - (unintelligible)
admitted that he was raising money for the defendants - have
you got that?
F. Strickler: Yes. We have that.
Pres. Nixon: You must have it all, you see.
J. Wilson: Yes. We have that. When I say that we don't think this is really
a good case, this is just our best judgment.
Pres. Nixon: Sure. I understand.
J. Wilson: We could be as wrong as the devil about this thing and, yet,
coming to certain conclusions - that's the reason we are
presenting it to you in this way. Now this is Bob's situation
- Bob and John brought us their problems three days ago. I
want you to know that I never knew these guys.
F. Strickler: But they are wonderful fellows.
Pres. Nixon: They are. They're great, fine Americans. And they tell the
truth, too.
J. Wilson: Yes -
Pres. Nixon: I can tell you one thing about your clients. They'll tell you
the truth. They don't lie.
J. Wilson: Yes. Yes. Now, now - we took up John's situation about the Deep
Six.
Pres. Nixon: Yes. This is Ehrlichman.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Okay.
J. Wilson: And - he tell's us that he (unintelligible) Hunt's safe and that
there was a pistol there; there was some electronic -
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Wilson: Equipment. Bob didn't think it was bugging. But it was more
recording than bugging. But this is unimportant.
F. Strickler: And a batch of papers.
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Wilson: Sensitive or semi-sensitive in nature.
Pres. Nixon: Sensitive in what respect - political or other?
J. Wilson: I don't think it was as much political as it was - didn't he have
something to do with national security?
Pres. Nixon: Yes.
F. Strickler: I think it was a mixture of both.
J. Wilson: Was it - guess it might have been.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: Anyway. Uh - what I was going to say today.
Pres. Nixon: Go ahead.
J. Wilson: The same day, or almost - Yes, I do.
F. Strickler: So the FBI was brought in and it seems that.
Pres. Nixon: They got the pistol.
F. Strickler: They got the pistol. They got the bugging equipment. And they
got a large quantity of papers.
Pres. Nixon: Which they gave to Dean - I mean to Gray.
J. Wilson: Well, presumably not this particular sensitive area.
Pres. Nixon: Oh.
J. Wilson: Gray, as the head of the Department, may have seen it. But this
is not the particular instance where we see Gray. Oh, Dean
held back some papers.
Pres. Nixon: Oh. They gave some of the papers to the FBI?
J. Wilson: Most of them. Now Frank, correct me if this -
Pres. Nixon: Thank goodness, they did that.
J. Wilson: Oh yes. It was promptly done, wasn't it?
F. Strickler: Yeah, it was.
Pres. Nixon: They saw the papers and they secured the area and they gave them
to the FBI.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: And other papers though they didn't give to the FBI?
J. Wilson: Now, do you recall whether John said that Dean informed him he was
holding these back.
F. Strickler: Yes, not contemporaneously but later on.
J. Wilson: Yes.
F. Strickler: Dean had -
J. Wilson: Not at the moment.
F. Strickler: Not at the moment.
J. Wilson: Now let me go on. Dean had a little envelope which was unopened
as far as John was concerned. He was unaware of its contents.
And Gray was sent for. I think Dean suggested that Gray be
sent for. Or maybe that was John.
F. Strickler: I'm not sure whether it was Dean or John - I think it was John,
though.
J. Wilson: We have taxed our system in the last seventy-two hours.
Pres. Nixon: I know, I know.
F. Strickler: (unintelligible) did not make (unintelligible)
J. Wilson: At any rate, this next meeting which was almost the next day - it
wasn't more than twenty-four hours after the FBI had entered
and as John described - Gray sat over there and John sat - he
sat her - and Dean handed Gray this package of papers which as
I say for John's purposes was sealed. He never saw the
contents. Gray took it - the meeting did not last over four
minutes. And left. Now Gray approached John.
F. Strickler: Ehrlichman
J. Wilson: And said, I want you to not mention the fact that I received those
papers.
Pres. Nixon: Gray said that? To Ehrlichman?
J. Wilson: Yes. And John said, "Well, I can't do that." He said, "This was
a - you were (unintelligible) in this somewhere. I didn't know
where it was - I never asked you what was in it." And Gray
said, "Well, I'm embarrassed because I destroyed it." Now this
is Gray's fault.
Pres. Nixon: Terrible damned thing to do.
J. Wilson: Oh terrible.
F. Strickler: Wasn't there a solicitation from Gray on the basis that he had
testified to the contrary?
J. Wilson: I think he had.
F. Strickler: And then - and then.
Pres. Nixon: I don't think he - as I recall - he didn't testify. He told the
U. S. Assistant - U. S. - Petersen.
F. Strickler: He's got it wrong.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah. It's in the record.
F. Strickler: John left a rather equivocal response to the request. He
called him back, upon reflecting, and said, "Look, I want you
to know that I have got the question of papers."
Pres. Nixon: John Ehrlichman?
F. Strickler: John Ehrlichman, yes.
Pres. Nixon: Then Gray got to Petersen and said, "look, I did get it. And I
destroyed it."
F. Strickler: Yes, that's right.
Pres. Nixon: That's the story.
F. Strickler: Incidentally, you mentioned Petersen -
Pres. Nixon: And I guess the only basis Gray could say that it was political
stuff and I didn't want to appear - pretty bad.
J. Wilson: Yes. Yes. With respect to Petersen, I must give you an aside. I
don't trust him. Myself.
Pres. Nixon: You don't?
J. Wilson: We both have had one experience with him. He divulged things we
thought was confidential in a very serious matter to a
potentially co-defendant's lawyer who was an ex-Department of
Justice lawyer when we played golf over the weekend, uh - and
told him the whole of our business and I got it back from a
lawyer in Philadelphia who heard it from the golf partner the
next day. And I'm always aware that Petersen is dealing with
ex-employees of the Department of Justice.
Pres. Nixon: I'll remember that.
J. Wilson: Well, I wish you would.
Pres. Nixon: Well, I've got to talk to him now.
J. Wilson: I know you do, but I don't go around maligning everyone.
Pres. Nixon: I know - I understand. I need to know.
J. Wilson: He's on my list of people I don't trust.
Pres. Nixon: I understand.
J. Wilson: Now, the second phase of John Ehrlichman was the idea of raising
funds.
Pres. Nixon: Which he was approached on.
J. Wilson: Yes, and this was not to come out of the three fifty. This was -
Pres. Nixon: He didn't know about the three-fifty.
J. Wilson: Oh, I think he knew about it the - he must have according to the
Pres. Nixon: Well, what I meant is, it wasn't his field.
J. Wilson: That's right. But he did get (unintelligible)
Pres. Nixon: Raising money and Dean says, "Can I talk to Kalmbach?" And he
said, "Yes." And -
J. Wilson: And Kalmbach went out and did raise the money. Now these matters
involving John alarm us even less, if I can make a comparison,
than Bob's do. Because I don't quite
Pres. Nixon: Do you mean from a criminal side?
J. Wilson: Yes, that's it. See
Pres. Nixon: He said they come to him and they say, Look here. I'm going to
raise some money. And Kalmbach here suggests okay." You mean
that doesn't make him guilty of something?
J. Wilson: Well, let's go back to the accessory after the fact idea. This
gets even removed further than the release of the money from
the (unintelligible).
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: of the White House fund to be used for that purpose. Now this
compares - this contrast is not to be taken as making any great
division between Haldeman and John. Well, frankly, our
judgment is that neither one can be successfully prosecuted.
Pres. Nixon: Because of what you see here?
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Well, now wait a minute. Let me ask you this, though. When you
talked - give me a little rundown of your talk with the U. S.
Attorney.
J. Wilson: I certainly have.
Pres. Nixon: Have you?
J. Wilson: Yes, now we have - neither of us -
Pres. Nixon: And also give me your judgment on this thing that Petersen told
me about this - rather, I - I -
J. Wilson: Non-indicted - they're better -
Pres. Nixon: It seems to me the moment they come out of that, they killed
themselves. They are dead.
J. Wilson: Let me, yes.
Pres. Nixon: I have never heard of that procedure before. But I may be naive
about the law.
J. Wilson: Let me answer that one, first, because that is more brief. In
conspiracy indictments, very frequently they will name express
defendants - conspirators - and they will name co-conspirators
by name as well as other people to the Grand Jury unknown. But
will not indict them. Now that's the (unintelligible) it's
characterized as a nonindicting. It isn't - the word is not
unindictable - non-indicting.
Pres. Nixon: Which means that they were indicted in public -
J. Wilson: Well, its - they certainly are. And usually from that group they
find witnesses who will testify against the defendants. Now
that's what that phrase is. It's commonplace in the law of
conspiracy. And, uh, I've seen it - I've been privy to it as a
prosecutor myself.
Pres. Nixon: Yes.
J. Wilson: I'm sure Frank has too. Some of that (unintelligible) it's a
black market. It might be compared to the treatment over
(unintelligible) that people think that I'm guilty.
Pres. Nixon: Well, for Bob and John - if they put them on that list - it
kills them.
J. Wilson: Oh.
Pres. Nixon: I mean - it may not. It may not kill them legally, but it kills
them from the standpoint of the public.
J. Wilson: Now, as to our visit with these gentlemen this afternoon. We
contacted - we sought to contact Glanzer first, whom we both
know very well, and he was - unsaid to be unavailable and we
asked Silbert, whom I had met on one occasion. Frank didn't
know him at all.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah. Yeah.
J. Wilson: And so we were - we made an engagement for 4:30 and they said -
this was without two things - and that they were going to go
before the Grand Jury and that they were going to be very busy
and they couldn't give us more than an hour. We came in - I'm
telling you this so you'll be (unintelligible) We were taken
into the room at (unintelligible) I began the presentation by
saying that we were there representing Haldeman and Ehrlichman.
And I had the strange feeling - and I think Frank will - now,
you weren't there for the first few minutes -
F. Strickler: I was not there the first ten minutes.
J. Wilson: I think he indicated surprise to me - I think it was a mixture.
Pres. Nixon: Glanzer?
J. Wilson: Yes. He was alone with me until a subordinate named Campbell came
in. And then eventually Silbert. But his surprise to me, I
felt was that in a certain sense he was surprised that Haldeman
and Ehrlichman had engaged me. This gave me a little
encouragement as to whether he thought that they should engage
(unintelligible). I will tell you why in a couple of minutes.
Uh, secondly, I - he suspected that we were down there possibly
representing John Mitchell. And I said, "Well, that isn't so."
Anymore - and he said, "well, these people - these perspective
people have been switching counsels," and he said, "I wasn't
sure Mitchell was going to keep his counsel." And I said, "Who
was his counsel?" and he said (unintelligible). Now, somebody
said this. But anyway, uh - I said, "Now Seymour, you know I
have heard you tell me before and I said I will
(unintelligible) if my clients are being kicked around at the
Courthouse." I asked him many questions. Get as many answers
as you can. I don't come away with many answers. But I'll get
mine. I said, "I asked you pertinent questions and I am not
offended if you say you can't." Now, this is the way we
talked. And we thought he was a little tight today because he
was in the presence of his superior. We have found him more
loose - and maybe on other occasions we'll be able to get him
alone. And I said, "What have you got planned for these two?
You going to have them before the Grand Jury?" He said, "We'll
have an office interview which will not be recorded. We'll
take no notes and you can be present while you take no notes.
We want to know what they will say before we take them before
the Grand Jury - if we go.
Pres. Nixon: Petersen had told me they were going going to be called before
the Grand Jury.
J. Wilson: Well, this is - this is quite possible. We've got some more to
tell you.
Pres. Nixon: I'm (unintelligible) about this thing.
J. Wilson: Silbert arrived about this time and I repeated everything that had
transpired. (unintelligible) And he qualified Glanzer by
saying, "Well, I think we are going to have to talk to the
Department of Justice about the interview." This wasn't the
interview versus the Grand Jury, I don't think. This was
interview at all. Did you get that impression? So, we - then
he said to me - said to us Silbert did - "We see from the
papers that Ehrlichman has been conducting investigations."
Can you admit this? (unintelligible) have been witnesses. I
said, "We would like to have his notes on this." And I said
"We had them." He says, "It's all in the paper."
Pres. Nixon: This is true.
J. Wilson: Ehrlichman says (unintelligible) I don't know and I'm not getting
any answer from him (unintelligible) "Now I'm going to ask, you
what have you (unintelligible) from the other? He said,
"Nobody's giving us any Cooperation." And then Silbert said,
"You know," he said, "this will (unintelligible) against the
(unintelligible) problem. (unintelligible) And he said, "Well,
if you come up with one of them (unintelligible) proceeding
(unintelligible) and then Glanzer came to his rescue and said,
"What could be - what is morally wrong with this whole thing -
(unintelligible)" Then we got into - they volunteered this
quite interesting problem. They volunteered that these leaks
from the Grand Jury were irritating the hell out of them. And
I said -
Pres. Nixon: Do you think (unintelligible) put it out (unintelligible)?
J. Wilson: Well, I do too - but they think a court reporter. I said -
Pres. Nixon: Bull (Laughter) A court reporter!
J. Wilson: He says Anderson's getting it right from the court reporter.
F. Strickler: Fire him.
J. Wilson: Well, I said, "Why do you bring the court reporter back the next
day for?" I said, "This is a crime in itself."
Pres. Nixon: And a very bad thing.
J. Wilson: They - we didn't take him seriously. Now, general inquiries.
"Oh," I said, "How are you proceeding? Are you proceeding with
packages? Have you got a forerunner of some indictments? Have
you got a package of other people? A second set of
indictments? "He can't answer that. So I said, "Well, we
understand - we'd be happy - we know you can't stay any longer.
Can we leave here with the assurance that you will communicate
with us?" (unintelligible) - an agreement with us that whatever
you're going to do in the way of getting a Grand Jury - we got
it pretty well committed there that (unintelligible) permitted.
The interview would come first.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: And he, and we left there with a commitment from them. I think
that's - a commitment for what it's worth. (unintelligible) We
didn't - we didn't trap people like this. This is a
(unintelligible) thing. Anyway, we left there with sort of a
commitment that this would happen. Now this wasn't much, but
at least we have kind of (unintelligible) and then I added a
question. I said, "Are you going to get around to this before
Senator Ervin begins his proceedings?" He said, rather
deliberately, rather hesitating, Silbert said, "yes, they would
get around before then." Now, I had in mind the fifteenth of
May, which is (unintelligible).
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: But that's the only point - any point there was. This was a
relaxed meeting except that Silbert is not a (unintelligible)
fellow. He is a serious man and a business-like man. But
that's because, it seems to me, I met him one day
(unintelligible) Chambers.
Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible)
J. Wilson: He didn't even remember me that day. He said, "(unintelligible)
who you are." Glanzer, (unintelligible) with his boasting -
and with some of his weaknesses. Isn't that right?
F. Strickler: Oh yes, oh yes. Glanzer (unintelligible).
Pres. Nixon: Yeah. He is obviously rough -
J. Wilson: Oh, he is a rough, rough fellow. He exaggerates and at times he
doesn't tell you the truth. And at other times he tells you
half the truth. But we couldn't go about it any other way
today. And with Silbert practically sitting in his lap. We
couldn't handle it any other way, but when the chips are down -
F. Strickler: He is obviously clear (unintelligible) point.
Pres. Nixon: Do you think he'll go back and (unintelligible)?
J. Wilson: Oh, I think he will (unintelligible) But Hunt was before the Grand
Jury this afternoon.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: And his lawyer was in two rooms from where we were meeting.
Pres. Nixon: What happened? Of course, nobody knows what happened.
J. Wilson: No - and then they - apparently nobody got the press in, to give
them an opportunity to see him - he possibly went out a back
door. I ran into a photographer down there and I said, "Did
you get a picture of him?" And he said, "No - we - they
shipped him out the back way.
Pres. Nixon: Hmmmm.
J. Wilson: So, that's where that stood. Now, Mr. President, Frank and I - uh
- have these conclusions if I may get the conclusions.
Pres. Nixon: Right.
J. Wilson: Now, do you have any questions before this?
Pres. Nixon: No. I'd like your conclusions and then I'll ask some questions.
You've thought it over. You know what my questions are.
J. Wilson: We think - we think that you and these two men -
Pres. Nixon: Let me say my good friend Len Garment and some others think that
- uh - that Dean out there is a loose cannon -
F. Strickler: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Threatening, and all that sort of thing. And I think obviously
what is happening - and I think that Glanzer and Silbert are
giving, trying to give, Dean an incentive to lie in order to
get Haldeman and Ehrlichman. Dean is scared and Dean is
capable of doing that. Do you agree with that?
F. Strickler: I think so.
Pres. Nixon: And Mitchell told him so. But, of course, that wouldn't get him
out of it. There's no way he'd (unintelligible) criminal,
(unintelligible). Now, that's one point.
J. Wilson: Let me say this.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: (unintelligible) see if this (unintelligible) I don't know whether
Frank wants to talk to you about it. When I was at that
meeting today, I had a feeling - and here again it's only my
(unintelligible) have a feeling that these two men - Ehrlichman
and Haldeman are really not (unintelligible)
Pres. Nixon: But Petersen certainly indicated, when he came to see me here
last Sunday - he said Haldeman and Ehrlichman should resign,
and so forth (unintelligible) it is noncorroborated testimony,
you know. General Eisenhower where Adams was thrown out for
this sort of little thing - the poor guy - he sort of got -
J. Wilson: And he served him well.
Pres. Nixon: For seven years and that damned vicuna coat. Unfortunate thing.
F. Strickler: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: But my point is we have very great pressures, you know - quite
candid about this - and say that Haldeman and Ehrlichman
destroyed in the public mind and they'll say breach of a public
trust." (unintelligible) two questions that I really think -
one, I don't want to do anything - the heat's going to be on
anyway. I don't want to do anything that would jeopardize
their case. I want these men to be (unintelligible). I know
there is. I really.
J. Wilson: Quite so. We (unintelligible)
Pres. Nixon: The second point, however, I have (unintelligible) And they know
that. And if - if - uh - you conclude that the best thing to
do is for Haldeman to step forward and say, you are not guilty
of a doggone thing." They have released the Grand Jury notes.
I've been attacked by the press; I've been (unintelligible) all
this (unintelligible) outside of this office including
(unintelligible). In it, one (unintelligible) regard to the
(unintelligible) as to whether it affects their
(unintelligible) too in regard to the President. You've
thought of both of those points?
J. Wilson: We have. Yes. We have.
Pres. Nixon: All right. What is your present conclusion?
J. Wilson: Well, these are related items and in the area of Presidential
judgment, we are (unintelligible). You know you've had such an
awful experience. Excuse me, if I state it frankly. I think
that either a suspension which I understood has been proposed
by Petersen on the basis that - They've been attacked.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: They've been named.
J. Wilson: But there would be a suspension or either their resignation is no
assurance that they would not be indicted.
Pres. Nixon: I asked Petersen that today. He said it would -
J. Wilson: There's no assurance.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Frankly, I said, "Now look here. If they resign does that mean
that -" I put it straight to him.
J. Wilson: Well, then my guess is -
Pres. Nixon: If I thought their resignation would avoid an indictment, I
would have them resign.
J. Wilson: Yes, Yes Sir.
Pres. Nixon: All right.
J. Wilson: Now, I trespass on your area of judgment when I say - I think that
if they resign or are suspended that this is a reflection on
the Presidency.
Pres. Nixon: Well, if they don't resign or are suspended and then are
indicted, that's all (unintelligible).
J. Wilson: Well, yes. But if - you have already announced you would suspend
them then.
Pres. Nixon: That's true.
J. Wilson: And -
Pres. Nixon: Anybody who was indicted will be suspended - anybody who is
indicted will resign.
J. Wilson: Is there, except for their own (unintelligible) is there any
difference between - if they stay? By the way, you know this.
I don't have to tell you. They are willing to leave.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, I know - they're - (unintelligible) my (unintelligible)
Absolute (unintelligible)
J. Wilson: And yet on the other hand they are willing to stand up to this
thing.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, yes. Yes.
J. Wilson: If it doesn't hurt you.
Pres. Nixon: Yes.
J. Wilson: And that's the reason I look at these two things in a kind - of a
best -
Pres. Nixon: Right. Right. Right.
J. Wilson: Because of - in an urgent way, I think if they resign or are
suspended then - that it reflects on you. I think if they are
indicted and you suspend them or they resign upon indictment, I
imagine that they wouldn't even expect you to
Pres. Nixon: No - they know (unintelligible) Or if they are even included in
this list of co-conspirators.
J. Wilson: Yes. I just don't think -
Pres. Nixon: Already said, of course.
J. Wilson: That - there's any difference. I really don't.
Pres. Nixon: What do you think, Frank?
F. Strickler: This is my feeling. I feel that resignation now by these two
gentlemen will be a tremendous reflection on the Presidency.
There are - the effect to it - because the public statement
says that this is only in Senator Ervin and other sources,
because there is no evidence to tie them into a criminal
situation. Now if they stepped out at this point there is
going to be a public feeling that this is an admission of guilt
and this is going to flow over from them right to the
(unintelligible) and I have a very strong feeling that this is
not one - and I don't want to say you shouldn't run from it.
It's not running from it - but it's facing up to it. That's
the way I feel about it.
Pres. Nixon: Now, on the other hand - then just take - you would say that you
would lean in the direction of taking the risk which there
would be - that they may be named as so-called coconspirators?
And, if they are, then we just have to move in.
J. Wilson: That's it. As I see this, Mr. President, and I hope this time
schedule works out - it is possible that if these gentlemen
submit to this informal interview - and we haven't decided that
question yet - but I think we are leaning toward doing it and I
think they are leaning toward having it, too. And maybe we
will be present at the interview. And I told them, I said, "We
don't sit silent in these interviews. We're not just
spectators. We cover for our client. And if the question is
unfair, I enter into the act."
Pres. Nixon: Absolutely.
J. Wilson: Oh, yes. This is not a thing where we are throwing the sheep to
the wolves. And so, they, I think they - we didn't make a
decision, but I think they - I think they are inclined to think
that way. Did you get that?
Pres. Nixon: I wonder if you could give that interview soon? Is there any
way? If you could get that timing some way - or other.
J. Wilson: I think that -
Pres. Nixon: Or maybe you don't want it soon.
J. Wilson: This was a little (unintelligible) that I had with him. Silbert
turned to me and said, "(unintelligible)." He said, "the man
who is being talked about seeks the interview, or seeks to go
before the Grand Jury. This, I - this, I never would seek.
You are in there alone with no counsel and the prosecutor has
been in there for months and he controls the Grand Jury and
this is the score - of the rule. And I said - now the other
point is whether we would ask for the interview or that he
would call us for it. I said, "Listen, Silbert,
(unintelligible) not taking it in the order in which the thing
is supposed to. You suggested, first, that you want them for
the interview. Why don't you play your cards? Why don't you
call upon us first? I would prefer it that way.
Pres. Nixon: In other words, wait til they're ready?
J. Wilson: Yes. Yes, I would. Uh, now I -
Pres. Nixon: I told Petersen they'd come anytime he wanted them. That's the
way I felt it.
J. Wilson: Well, this is - we did not resist it. (unintelligible) any idea
(unintelligible) to the interview for. It wasn't that at all.
It wasn't that we said, "If they didn't come - nothing like
that." But I have said - Frank, if you don't agree with this,
please tell the President.
F. Strickler: No - whenever I don't disagree with John - I agree.
J. Wilson: He's
F. Strickler: But I am not hesitant to disagree
Pres. Nixon: I understand.
J. Wilson: Oh yes - he is. He's just awful at times.
Pres. Nixon: Good.
J. Wilson: And he's always willing to be critical when he thinks I'm going
astray.
Pres. Nixon: Let me ask - in other words, your advice at the present time is
stand with these men, because basically if you flush them now
it's going to probably hurt - let me put it this way - it will
hurt their case. Wouldn't it?
J. Wilson: Yes. That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Unless we can look at their case first and then everybody. It
will hurt their case, don't you think?
J. Wilson: I - it will - in the public eye.
Pres. Nixon: And you think that - but - and my point is - to take the risk of
going down and letting them be indicted and then if they -
J. Wilson: Well, so you take a risk, hopefully, of the interview.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, the interview. Certainly.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Then what?
J. Wilson: Well, let's find out - let's find out
F. Strickler: Then you take another look at it -
J. Wilson: What question they ask and what they appear to have and what they
are after - and then reappraise this situation. This - this
thing, Mr. President, in my judgment has to be played in steps.
Pres. Nixon: Don't go too fast?
J. Wilson: Well, no.
Pres. Nixon: You don't know how much they have and what they can prove?
J. Wilson: That's it, exactly.
Pres. Nixon: Then, you got to remember Dean, as I have said, is a loose
cannon.
J. Wilson: I know he is.
Pres. Nixon: The damndest charges you've ever heard. Some of them are
unbelievable.
J. Wilson: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: This fellow that was sitting in here and who in the Office of
the President - a very bright young guy and these guys would
talk to him and so forth - but he now wants to drag them down
with him.
J. Wilson: Yes. Oh, he's bad.
Pres. Nixon: They must have told him what I - they - I think - have told Dean
that, "If he'll - if he can get Haldeman and Ehrlichman - he
gets immunity." Now, on that point, do you want Petersen to
give him immunity, or not?
J. Wilson: Uh -
Pres. Nixon: Dean.
J. Wilson: Well.
Pres. Nixon: Should he?
J. Wilson: Uh. Let me - as I understood, they were hung up on that right
now.
Pres. Nixon: They are.
J. Wilson: Now.
Pres. Nixon: See, that's why - I put out a statement that no major figure
should be given immunity.
J. Wilson: Let me tell you -
Pres. Nixon: Basically, because I think it would look bad if -
(unintelligible) from our standpoint. What do you think about
it?
J. Wilson: Let me tell you about the two kinds of immunity, may I get to
this?
Pres. Nixon: Sure - anything.
J. Wilson: The prosecutor has the power, of course, to say I'm going to
(unintelligible) that man, usually use him as a witness and he
may have other reasons (unintelligible). So, he'd get case
immunity. But it gets to the prosecutor now to use him as a
witness and he'd involve in the Cross-examination of
(unintelligible). You admit he's named you, involving your
total service. You are going scot-free while you hope that
this will contaminate him before the Jury.
Pres. Nixon: I see.
J. Wilson: So that's case immunity. Now, the immunity statute that has been
on the Federal statutes for years - up to 1968 - was a
confusing statute. It was to be co-terminus with the Fifth
Amendment. That is to say, that no testimony was to be used
against you. But the (unintelligible) in the courts has
variously confused. It was because of that fact and so nobody
would ever believe that it was co-determinus with the Fifth
Amendment. So in '68, perhaps it was, thereabouts, Congress
passed a statute which we call "Use Amendment" - Use means use
of the testimony. This does not exonerate him from indictment.
This merely says that what you tell us cannot be used against
you, except for perjury.
Pres. Nixon: I see.
J. Wilson: And that we can turn around and indict you the next day if we can
indict you on independent evidence, having no source. So we
call it case immunity in the instance where the prosecutor
turns a fellow loose, and that's it. And use immunity. Now I
don't know whether Dean is dickering for - by the way, this use
immunity is a very elaborate procedure. This Attorney General
must ask the District Judge for it and the District Judge gives
it to him. As far as I know, I guess this is an open court
proceeding. We considered one but it never seemed to work.
F. Strickler: I mean, we got them sufficiently confused enough at one time on
this very question, but -
J. Wilson: But we got it resolved in the meantime. But this is a - this is a
fairly new statute - but if this means - in the use immunity
case - that the man can incriminate - get himself immunity.
Now this is devastating where there is a witness on the stand
too.
Pres. Nixon: Yes.
J. Wilson: This is a weak link in the prosecutor if he has to use a witness
who got immunity by trading off his friends. And for that
reason I don't know what he is trading with you - trading with
trading loose on this whole mess.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: Or whether he's trading him loose on himself.
Pres. Nixon: I don't think Dean's lawyers - Schaffer is his name. Do you
know him?
F. Strickler: Who is he
Pres. Nixon: I think Dean's lawyers are just trying to get him off.
J. Wilson: Yes. On this one case.
Pres. Nixon: Off the whole damned thing.
F. Strickler: What we have found in other cases with Glanzer is that they
don't want to go to the elaborate statutory procedure and just
want to have an oral understanding, "If you cooperate with us,
we'll give you our word we won't prosecute you.
Pres. Nixon: That's what they told Dean.
F. Strickler: That's generally their procedure when there are conspirator -
J. Wilson: This is Petersen's style. He practically gave us this in another
case but he double-crossed us gently and we just don't believe
him. You see, let me tell why we - why we are a little cocky.
And maybe this - this is a bad basis for judgment. But a very
prominent national industrialist was charged with - threatened
with perjury before a Grand Jury. In order to get him to
testify against a dubious lawyer and it was said that Mitchell
wanted to get and - the man had been threatened by - on the
perjury thing before the Grand Jury. If a man gets indicted
he's not entitled to (unintelligible). We studied law for two
years on that case until finally we got alarmed and we brought
our client and we said, "Mr. So and So. We've got to take a
chance. The time is running out on you, the time is running
out on the District Attorney, but if you just want to stand the
way you've stood it for two years and - you can't do that for
two years - it's your risk. You can only judge us as you would
be judged."
Pres. Nixon: By the fact.
J. Wilson: He says, "To hell with it. I will stand up, to it. He hasn't got
a perjury case. He didn't say anything.
F. Strickler: What this was - they were applying the screws to get this
industrialist to testify against the lawyer more than they
wanted the one against the industrialist. They didn't have the
evidence against the industrialist but they would just sit down
in that office and swear they had enough to return an
indictment. This - this, I think - this is what they are
doing. I am confident that they are going to tell each one of
these witnesses that are scattered around - potential witnesses
against Mr. Ehrlichman and Mr. Haldeman - they are putting the
screws on them - they are scaring them. And they are using
psychology. Now this overflows - it overflows on John, it may
and the (unintelligible). You have to recognize this - have to
recognize what we've got here. Go from that to the merits of
the case - this is what I am trying to do, and when I look at
it from the merits of the case, I don't think they have a
criminal case against these gentlemen at this point.
Pres. Nixon: Even on conspiracy? You see, the thing is, I understand that
conspiracy is very broad -
F. Strickler: One overt act and they can bring conspiracy.
Pres. Nixon: But you have to have an overt action.
J. Wilson: Not on the part of every defendant. Not on the part of every
defendant. But the overt act could be in itself innocent if
they are part of the pattern.
Pres. Nixon: I think that is really what they are going to try to nail
Haldeman and Ehrlichman on. Not on the - not the Watergate
thing - they can't do that. (unintelligible) had approved the
budget that (unintelligible). They can never prove that whole
thing, Never prove that that's what (unintelligible) never
prove that.
F. Strickler: Sure. Sure.
Pres. Nixon: But on the other hand, they will say that on the three-fifty -
"Haldeman and Ehrlichman were involved with Dean and Magruder
in an effort to get the money to keep the defendants quiet."
What's the answer to that? (unintelligible) McCord - you say -
J. Wilson: Well, of course - Dean's - if I understand John and Bob
J. Wilson: correctly - Dean's presentation goes no further, as far we know,
than money to take care of their families.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
J. Wilson: And legal counsel.
Pres. Nixon: That's right.
J. Wilson: Well, you might say circumstantially that helping the defendants -
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: And (unintelligible) it, but it isn't quite as wrong as - having
to pay the money to the defendants for the purpose of shutting
their mouths.
Pres. Nixon: Yeah. The other thing - there was perhaps one instance - very
little - very little where it said there is the matter of
(unintelligible). I am confident their motive in every
instance was to help their families and with their legal
counsel.
J. Wilson: Yeah.
Pres. Nixon: I can't see that that's wrong.
F. Strickler: I cannot either. No, there's no crime in this. And we - we
asked them because the innuendos and inferences of pay-off to
keep the defendants quiet - yes - surfaced quite a while ago.
Pres. Nixon: Well, McCord has said it. Yes, and the defendants may so now
testify.
F. Strickler: Yes. That's right. But none of these actions have we been
able to pin down occurred after these allegations arose. This
to us -
Pres. Nixon: I see your point.
F. Strickler: Is significant. If they had -
Pres. Nixon: If they knew that these allegations had been made and they still
were (unintelligible)
F. Strickler: Yes. That's right. If they were chargeable with newspaper
stories of allegations of payoffs and then they sent the money
over, for the families -
Pres. Nixon: I think there were newspaper stories that the defendants were
getting money and so forth, but the allegations that they were
paid off to keep quiet - I think it was the first time in Court
- but you better check that. But I know - I don't think
anything after that. It is a point worth checking.
J. Wilson: You know, Mr. President, it may appear to you and I repeat only
because I, (unintelligible) if you had the interview
(unintelligible) and given these two men together on the basis
of what we call the vernacular of capital appeals.
Pres. Nixon: Oh, I understand.
J. Wilson: And, I really -
Pres. Nixon: Well, there are no good choices in a case like this.
J. Wilson: No.
Pres. Nixon: Just take the least bad one.
J. Wilson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Your point is that, which has some merit to me, that probably
it's just as bad - let's look at it - at its worst. It's just
as bad to sink them now as it is to sink them if they are
indicted.
J. Wilson: Sure.
Pres. Nixon: Isn't that the point?
J. Wilson: Yeah.
Pres. Nixon: If they are indicted, then I've given them every chance. And if
they are indicted, we'll let them go.
J. Wilson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: If on the other hand they are not indicted -
J. Wilson: You may -
Pres. Nixon: You have to remember, though, that they may even if they are not
indicted - this is the argument that these prosecutors and
Petersen will make - that if they are not indicted, they will
be indicted in the public mind with all this stuff.
J. Wilson: That's right.
Pres. Nixon: Well, put your hat on now.
J. Wilson: If they are named as not involved -
Pres. Nixon: Not named at all. Not named at all. Because of the newspaper
stories, and the leaks and the columns and in the attacks by
the Weickers, et cetera - these men are going to be really
merciless by Dean's testimony. They are going to be indicted
in the public mind. Do you think their usefulness will be
destroyed by that?
F. Strickler: Won't there come a time when they will testify before Senator
Ervin's Committee and have a chance to make their public
presentation?
Pres. Nixon: Yes. Well, no. I think they will be testifying in court before
that.
F. Strickler: In court before then.
Pres. Nixon: I don't see how - I personally don't see how the Ervin Committee
can possibly be allowed to go forward at a time when these
court suits develop.
F. Strickler: Yeah. They will probably say that (unintelligible) too.
J. Wilson: Going back to the Petersen -
Pres. Nixon: Yeah.
J. Wilson: And here again you must take my observations with the fact that I
am prejudiced against him.
Pres. Nixon: Yes. Tell me about -
J. Wilson: Dean's getting off the hook, possibly,
Pres. Nixon: For having revealed too much to Dean?
J. Wilson: No. From indicting your top men.
Pres. Nixon: He didn't want to indict them.
J. Wilson: Well, yes. And I - in other word
Pres. Nixon: Well, he doesn't seem to be concerned about indicting Mitchell.
He is concerned - he is petrified. And Mitchell will be
indicted.
J. Wilson: That's what I am told. I have never been in quite this far as
they are with this situation, but I know -
Pres. Nixon: You mean they are going to be reluctant to indict the two top
men.
J. Wilson: That's - that's what I would say except you know - I would put it
this way - Petersen will handle - this problem. I guess - a
holdover from the Democratic Administration.
Pres. Nixon: That's right. He is.
J. Wilson: Well, I doubt (unintelligible)
Pres. Nixon: What's your judgement?
F. Strickler: I was following Petersen. I don't know his (unintelligible)
J. Wilson: I said, "His background - his background as a Democrat -"
F. Strickler: Oh, Assistant Petersen?
J. Wilson: I thought as the prosecutor he would love to - unless he was just
crazy or ruthless to want to indict the top of the ladder.
F. Strickler: Without the strongest case and I think -
Pres. Nixon: He didn't want to indict unless he can convict
F. Strickler: Yes. But this is not one. I don't think he would throw in
your two top assistants - into an indictment as defendants,
without clear evidence against them.
Pres. Nixon: How about this co-conspirators - not-indicting? Think they
would do that?
F. Strickler: Not without clear evidence. I equate either one as being one
and the same.
Pres. Nixon: I do, too. Because they know if they are named as that then I
would have to suspend them. They have to fight that. It's a
hell of a procedure - that conspiracy.
J. Wilson: Yes. But it's been going on since time immemorial.
Pres. Nixon: Unindicted co-conspirators?
J. Wilson: Yes. And using that phrase the man who hands down unindicted guys
would say - and others to the Grand Jury unknown - so they have
a sweeping cover that way in getting them confused. I just
think -
Pres. Nixon: Well, at this point, I think the thing to do is to stand firm.
J. Wilson: That's what I wanted to say.
Pres. Nixon: Stand firm.
J. Wilson: Let's play this almost -
Pres. Nixon: Don't panic.
J. Wilson: That's a very good phrase. And let's play this slowly and as
things develop and take another -
Pres. Nixon: These are good men. I just hope we can save them. It's a
miserable thing to have them go through.
J. Wilson: But you do know, I am sure, we have said to you that while we have
their interest - well, I'll say, not primarily, but largely -
in our heart, they a - because they are our friends.
Pres. Nixon: Sure.
J. Wilson: We are equally interested in this possibility.
Pres. Nixon: I understand.
J. Wilson: We think it spills over other people.
Pres. Nixon: If anything's done now - let's just sit it out awhile - take the
smears for awhile.
F. Strickler: One thing I was wondering and I hesitate to bring it up because
it is more of my problem. The statement from Huston -
interviews in depth with your top assistant that you have gone
into the facts with them - that you've put your confidence in
them - believe what they say.
Pres. Nixon: If I said that to them?
F. Strickler: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Want me to say that?
F. Strickler: Yes.
Pres. Nixon: Want me to say that?
F. Strickler: Well, I'm wondering, I'm curious - and you put this critic and
foe that you have had this in-depth contact with him on this
basis - that you believe them - you place your faith and credit
in them - and from what they have told you - they have not done
anything wrong.
J. Wilson: If you come to the conclusion to do this, Mr. President, and while
I like Frank's presentation of that - I'm concerned about the
credit.
F. Strickler: I haven't given it any thought.
J. Wilson: But I think you could add - I'm not trying to get any bouquets for
this and their counsels then (unintelligible). I don't know
that you want to say that, but support for you because that -
Pres. Nixon: Their counsels advise me that.
J. Wilson: No, not advised (unintelligible) -
Pres. Nixon: That they have not -
J. Wilson: That they have not - I mean I don't -
Pres. Nixon: I think the timing on that - let's have that in a reserve - I
think that's a good point.
J. Wilson: I wouldn't mix the (unintelligible) -
Pres. Nixon: Let's let Easter go by - hope the weekend survives.
J. Wilson: Now Magruder isn't coming back 'til Monday, have you been informed
of that?
Pres. Nixon: No.
J. Wilson: They heard that this afternoon while
Pres. Nixon: Hunt was there today.
J. Wilson: Yes.
F. Strickler: But, somebody is coming in tomorrow - It was Sashed by very
rapidly in an exchange. I don't know who it was.
J. Wilson: The thing is if they can work and we're going to be - obviously,
we'll see these men tomorrow again.
Pres. Nixon: We appreciate your work.
J. Wilson: And, any time over the weekend that they -
Pres. Nixon: You going to go back and talk to Glanzer again some time?
J. Wilson: Yes, aren't we, Frank?
F. Strickler: Oh yes, there's always been that we have a formal conference -
then maybe another one. Then you can drop in the office and
see them informally and see - you go down on another matter and
Seymour is very cooperative.
J. Wilson: You couldn't do that initially - this had to be a scheduled
conference. He bad a man the - he didn't know us and besides
he was jumping in first (unintelligible).
F. Strickler: The problem - that we should be trying to get information at
Seymour Glanzer's level and you're in conversation with the
Assistant Attorney General, but yet it seems worthwhile and
productive.
Pres. Nixon: I'm not sure that Glanzer is telling the truth.
J. Wilson: Well, on occasion I've never been (unintelligible) to that - He
did some good opinions.
F. Strickler: You know why I remember that case. He was an Assistant
Attorney General then but -
J. Wilson: Yes, he was one of the (unintelligible) -
F. Strickler: He was doing all the work. Well, we're at your disposal.
Pres. Nixon: Well, as I say, you've got honest men; I know they're telling
the truth.
J. Wilson: I'm extremely impressed with them.
Pres. Nixon: Well, they're touched by this because anybody who was in the
campaign is touched by everything about it. And frankly,
Mitchell's an honest man. He just wasn't tending the show - he
had problems with his wife - these jackass kids and other fools
around did this thing and John should have stepped up to it -
that's what happened in my opinion. And I think I -
J. Wilson: Sure, I know.
F. Strickler: Well, we're available to them and if you would like to see us
again any time you want to and we can tell you always be
delighted.
Pres. Nixon: Well, I appreciate that.
J. Wilson: It's nice to talk to you even under these circumstances.
Pres. Nixon: Well, we hope that by Golly - that we'll talk under better -
F. Strickler: Last time I saw you it was crowded - out at the Wardman Park -
the Shoreham - I could have lifted my feet off the floor and
watched you - you and your family on the podium.
Pres. Nixon: What was that?
F. Strickler: That was election night.
Pres. Nixon: Election night - you were there? Oh boy. That was a great
night? Well, that was what it was all about.
F. Strickler: Yes, it sure was.
Pres. Nixon: Well, we'll survive this. You know - people say this destroys
the Administration and the rest - but what was this? What was
Watergate? A little bugging! I mean a terrible thing - it
shouldn't have been done - shouldn't have been covered up. And
people shouldn't have and the rest, but we've got to beat it.
Right.
J. Wilson: Everybody does - the Democrats have been doing - going on for 20
years. (Laughter)
F. Strickler: Mr. President, on behalf of my daughter Nancy - she asked me to
do it.
Pres. Nixon: How old is she?
F. Strickler: She's sixteen.
Pres. Nixon: Next time you come in - I'll give her a little something -
You've got - they have good men to (unintelligible).
