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- Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!faqserv
- From: scottg10@ix.netcom.com (Scott Gordon)
- Newsgroups: rec.toys.misc,rec.answers,news.answers
- Subject: rec.toys.misc FAQ (2 of 3)
- Supersedes: <toys/misc-faq/part2_836440148@rtfm.mit.edu>
- Followup-To: poster
- Date: 19 Jul 1996 17:36:51 GMT
- Organization: TA - Toys Anonymous
- Lines: 510
- Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU
- Expires: 17 Aug 1996 17:29:59 GMT
- Message-ID: <toys/misc-faq/part2_837797399@rtfm.mit.edu>
- Reply-To: scottg10@ix.netcom.com (Scott Gordon)
- NNTP-Posting-Host: bloom-picayune.mit.edu
- Summary: A guide to the newsgroup rec.toys.misc and the hobby of
- collecting toys.
- X-Last-Updated: 1996/06/15
- Originator: faqserv@bloom-picayune.MIT.EDU
- Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu rec.toys.misc:94427 rec.answers:22461 news.answers:77250
-
- Archive-name: toys/misc-faq/part2
- Posting-frequency: bi-weekly
- Last-modified: 96/06/15
- Version: 16.0
- URL: http://utmdacc.mda.uth.tmc.edu:5014/eric/rtm/faq.html
-
-
- ************* ************* ** ** *************
- **** **** * * ** ** *
- * F R E Q U E N T L Y * ** ** *
- * * * * A S K E D *** *************
- * * * * ***Q U E S T I O N S *
- * * * * *** *
- ***** ************* *** ************
-
- The rec.toys.misc FAQ Part 2
-
- Volume 16 June 15, 1996
-
- LEGAL This FAQ may be distributed or referenced in whole or in
- DISCLAIMER: part in any forum as long as the Author and Contributors
- sections remain with any portion of the FAQ that is
- referenced outside of the rec.toys.misc forum, and no
- profit is gained from the use of this FAQ in any forum.
-
-
- SECTION 2: FINANCIAL ASPECTS
-
- Q1: I just bought this action figure, how much is it worth?
- A1: In more cases than not, its worth what you paid for it. There are
- many figures that have their worth inflated due to false demand
- created by dealers, but the majority of these figures will drop in
- price once it becomes known that they are available in quantity and
- the dealer can no longer effectively absorb all available stock.
-
- Q2: What makes an action figure "rare"?
- A2: Very rarely is an action figure rare. If a dealer has five or ten
- of said action figures, then it is not truly rare, but falsely made
- to appear so by dealer hoarding. A rare figure cannot be
- determined ahead of time, it is something that collectors and
- dealers alike will probably not realize until the figure has come
- and gone.
-
- Q3: Should I pay over retail for an action figure that is "rare"
- because I fear I may never have another chance to get it?
- A3: I understand the anxiousness of wanting a new figure and the
- aggravation of not being able to find it. So I will tell you this,
- I have never bought a figure for inflated prices that I did not
- later see in a retail store for standard price. Patience is a
- virtue, and cheaper.
-
- Q4: If I am too impatient too wait until I find a "rare" figure at
- retail price, but I do not want to pay above retail price, what can
- I do?
- A4: You can trade one "rare" figure for another. If you run across a
- figure that others are looking for, yet you still cannot find the
- figure you are looking for, you can post a trade request and
- chances are someone will have what you are looking for and will
- want what you have found. The best and fairest of these type
- trades are ones where the cost, and not perceived value, are equal
- on both sides. And if your attempts at trading the figure are
- unsuccessful, you can always return it to the store for a refund,
- or sell it at cost so that you are reimbursed and someone can
- acquire a figure they are looking for.
-
- Q5: Why does a question about worth or rarity evoke such an unkindly
- response from rtm regulars?
- A5: I want to emphasize that anyone is welcome on this group to discuss
- toys or ask questions, but questions about worth or rarity do not
- always bring out the best in the group's regulars (but you'll learn
- we have a warped sense of humor, at least). If you do ask a
- question about worth or rarity, ask politely and in a well written
- manner to do as best you can to distinguish yourself from a dealer
- (dealers tend to post abrupt and sometimes illiterate queries), but
- take the following points (from rtmer TZ) into account before you
- ask a question about value, and you may be able to stay out of the
- line of fire:
-
- "(A) Virtually no figure released since 1985 is 'rare.' As someone
- else noted, two hundred and fifty MILLION Star Wars
- figures were produced, so even these aren't 'rare' (since
- so many tens of thousands still survive on mint cards).
- Most figures produced after 1990 should be considered, in
- the scheme of things 'extremely common.'
-
- (B) Any toy produced after 1993 is probably still available on
- the toy shelves in stores, the vast majority in large numbers
- (i.e. X-Men, Star Trek, Spawn, etc.). Even the figures most
- people label 'rare' are still produced in the hundreds of
- thousands: Interim Human Torch & Invisible Woman, and
- Phoenix, for example.
-
- (C) Realistically, most toys are worth $5-7, i.e. THE RETAIL
- PRICE. With a minimum amount of shopping around, you should be
- able to find these toys at TRU, K-Mart, Target, or whatever.
-
- (D) IF YOU WALK INTO A STORE AND SEE TEN COPIES OF A FIGURE
- 'YOU'RE FRIEND'S BROTHER'S SISTER'S COUSIN' TOLD YOU
- MIGHT BE 'WORTH SOMETHING,' YOU SHOULD PROBABLY LEAVE THEM
- THERE. They are most likely NOT worth very much more than
- retail, unless you have some supply set-up worked out with
- your local toy scalper.
-
- (E) Just because you see a dealer selling Professor X figures
- for $10 each, or even Killer Croc's for $20, doesn't mean
- they're 'WORTH SOMETHING.' (God, I loathe that phrase...).
- Likewise, because a price guide lists a relatively common
- figure for $15 (like Medieval Spawn repaints), doesn't mean
- it's automatically 'WORTH' that much. Since the guides only
- track the secondary market (dealer/scalpers), even if only two
- M. Spawns were sold at that price last month, the price is
- marked at $15. Meantime, 50,000 people probably bought that
- damn toy at retail at the local Wal-Mart.
-
- (F) Finally, as with all newsgroups, IT IS EXTREMELY IRRITATING TO
- MANY REGULAR READERS AND POSTERS TO HAVE BASIC QUESTIONS ASKED
- OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If you want to find out how
- much a figure is 'worth,' try this:
-
- (1) If it's pre-1985, look in a price guide, subtract
- about 25% from the amount listed, and you have a
- 'reasonable' range of prices at which it can be sold
- (full guide price plus or minus 25%, with lower-end values
- probably more realistic.)
- (2) If it's post-1985, it's probably 'worth' (maximum) no more
- than $15 mint-on-card. If it's post 1990, it's probably
- worth no more than $10-15.
- (3) If it's post-1993, it's probably can be found at retail,
- and is 'worth' that, unless you pay scalper prices, at
- which point it is 'worth' $10-15 for a more common
- figure, and anywhere from $15-30 for 'hot' figures. The
- latter price will probably drop down to $10-15 as soon as
- people realize that speculator frenzy rather than an actual
- limited supply is driving prices up; this usually takes
- about 2-3 months to sink in to the denser and/or more
- impatient heads in the hobby.
- (4) REMEMBER THE VAST MAJORITY OF TOYS, NOBODY WANTS AND CAN BE
- HAD VERY VERY CHEAPLY IF YOU ARE A SMART SHOPPER.
- (5) READ THE FAQ."
-
- Q6: Is anyone interested in creating a rec.toys.marketplace
- A6: There has been quite a bit of discussion in past and present on
- forming such a newsgroup. As of yet, no actions have been taken.
-
- Q7: Are sales/auctions/trades allowed here?
- A7: Yes, until a marketplace is created (see Q2.6), they will be
- accepted on this newsgroup.
-
- Q8: How is an auction or sale usually conducted on the net?
- A8: From the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting FAQ:
-
- "Well, the best way to do this is to observe several and watch how
- they are conducted and then to post on your own. Several
- guidelines usually serve to help things run smoothly like:
- 1. Make clear the currency that you wish to receive
- payment and the form in which you would like that money
- (Money order, check or credit card).
- 2. Post accurate descriptions of the pieces you are selling.
- This limits problems down the line with miscommunication based
- on what was being sold.
- 3. If you have an idea of a price that you will not sell below
- then post a minimum bid for the item in question.
- 4. Post or [preferably] mail frequent updates so that bidders
- know where things stand."
-
- Q9: How should I package and ship toys I'm selling or trading?
- A9: From Eric G. Myers (emyers@utmdacc.mda.uth.tmc.edu):
-
- "This is an important question and one that has many legitimate
- answers. Just keep in mind that the sender is responsible for
- making sure that the item(s) arrive in good condition. Much of
- this depends on the toy itself. The first component is a good
- sturdy box (Loose figures can sometimes be shipped via padded
- envelope without problems). I suggest NOT using the 'Priority
- Mail' boxes supplied at the Post Office. These have a tendency to
- flatten out during shipping. I suggest finding some type of box
- made from at least some corrugated cardboard. For larger items,
- boxes from liquor stores work exceptionally well (and they are
- free...a definite plus!). Choose a box size that will
- accommodate the item without having to bend, fold or otherwise
- damage the toy package.
-
- Next you need to consider some type of packing material. The
- most frequently used material is obviously newspaper. This
- can work effectively if you use some common sense. Since most
- action figures (as well as many other toys) have 'bubbles' it is
- important not to crush the bubble with your packing material.
- You want the packing material to surround the entire item without
- crushing it. The goal is to keep it in place and provide extra
- cushioning should the package end up underneath a stack of heavy
- boxes during shipping. Remember, you are not stuffing a turkey.
- Crumpling newspaper works well when used carefully. Rolling
- newspaper into 'logs' can also work but takes some practice to
- pack an item securely. The next level up from newspaper would be
- bubble wrap or styrofoam 'peanuts.' Each of these methods has its
- own ups and downs and is really a matter of preference and your own
- experiences. Go with what works for you. Bubble wrap can be an
- extra expense but does provide good protection if used in
- sufficient quantity. Peanuts also provide excellent protection
- and are usually quite cheaply available. Remember to be careful
- with the use of tape on the inside of the box or with packing
- material. Tape that is applied to a toy package may not be
- easily removed.
-
- Once you have the item snugly in the box, seal the box with
- appropriate packing tape. Regular thin Scotch tape is usually
- inefficient unless used in large quantities. Make sure the
- address is legible and written preferably in dark, block
- letters. Don't forget to include your own return address. If a
- mix up occurs with the delivery address, you want the item to come
- back to you rather than the dead letter office.
-
- Now you need to pick a delivery service. You have several to
- choose from. The standard is the United States Postal Service.
- Currently you may send up to two pounds via Two-Day Priority Mail
- for $3.00. This is usually sufficient to ship one or two action
- figures in a suitable box with appropriate shipping materials.
- Occasionally you will have to pay a little more depending on
- various factors including the type of item, the size of box and the
- type of packing materials used. The next most used service is
- UPS. This costs a little bit more but delivery is generally
- reliable. In addition, UPS insures all packages for a standard
- amount (you may increase this amount for a fee - [see Q2.10]).
- Last, but not least, there are many overnight shipping services
- (Federal Express, DHL, etc.) that can be used to get a package
- somewhere in a hurry. This is probably the least used method for
- shipping due to cost involved.
-
- Last but not least, its always nice to e-mail the package
- receiver letting him or her know that the package is in the mail.
- Also politely ask that they drop you a quick note letting you
- know when the figures arrive. With luck and good planning, you
- will have made a successful shipment."
-
- Q10: Should I insure packages?
- A10: From Eric G. Myers (emyers@utmdacc.mda.uth.tmc.edu):
-
- "There is some controversy regarding this issue. However, if the
- buyer wants to pay for insurance on top of all other agreed
- terms of your deal, by all means get the insurance requested.
- If you are shipping an item of exceptional value (suggestions have
- ranged from 25 dollars on up through 250 as minimum values for
- obtaining insurance...a happy medium might be 50-100 dollar
- value). Here are some of the controversies. First, insurance
- will often only cover the ACTUAL value of an item as opposed to
- the PERCEIVED value. What that means is that if you are
- shipping the latest, currently shipping but rare Spew figure
- (let's say Hamburger Head Angela with Specked Panties), it may
- only be worth what you paid for it retail. It doesn't matter that
- someone sent you $50 for it. For insurance purposes it will
- probably be worth retail price. However, there are some
- exceptions. If you have an appraisal of value from some
- reputable source, you may be able to get more back on an
- insurance claim. This is very difficult with
- currently available/shipping figures. No matter the rarity, if
- its currently available, its probably valued at retail price. Even
- with older figures, sometimes an appraisal is not acknowledged by
- insurance. If you have questions, contact your local postmaster.
-
- Second controversy: Insurance may only cover the toy inside the
- package and NOT the package itself. Many people collect MOMC
- [(see Q2.18)]. However, if the card or bubble is damaged in
- shipping and the figure is left intact, insurance may not
- reimburse you. Again, check with your local postmaster if you
- have questions.
-
- In short, insurance is a matter of choice. Know what is covered and
- then decide for yourself. Remember, if the package you send to
- someone else does not arrive or arrives damaged, netiquette states
- that the shipper is responsible for making amends."
-
- Q11: Is there a preferred method of creating subject lines to indicate
- for sale posts?
- A11: It would be appreciated by all readers of this newsgroup if for
- sale posts were posted with the "FS:" abbreviation preceding the
- heading. This will benefit both information seekers who are
- uninterested in "for sale" posts, and those looking to buy toys who
- do not wish to scour the newsgroup to find the posts that interest
- them.
-
- Q12: How should I respond to sales/auctions/trades?
- A12: Respond by e-mail only, do not post responses. Doing so is highly
- improper and discourteous to other usenet users.
-
- Q13: Should I inform this newsgroup if I see an item for sale here
- cheaper somewhere else, will I get flamed?
- A13: You may get flamed, but as long as you provide the information
- politely, you are in the right and are helping your fellow
- collectors on this newsgroup. If the seller shows his/her volatile
- attitude as a result of this information, you have also let
- everyone know that they would be better off taking their business
- elsewhere.
-
- Q14: What does the C-1 to C-10 scale mean?
- A14: From the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting FAQ:
-
- "This scale is usually used to grade carded figures and boxed toys.
- It was designed to be more specific and quantitative than a scale
- based on individual terms. C-10 is absolutely mint, perfect,
- free of defects. C-1 is totally beat up. What goes in between is
- highly subjective. No matter what anyone tells you, there is
- no absolute meaning to this scale, and each collector uses their
- own relative grading. It is best to continue to buy from dealers
- you trust after you get a feel for their grading scale from some of
- their samples.
-
- When buying carded or packaged items, always ask for a
- description of all defects in addition to this C-1 to C-10 scale
- grading. Some typical defects in carded figures and boxed toys
- include (but are not limited to): yellowed bubble, edge wear,
- creasing, bends, card is not flat, bubble is crushed, bubble
- has ding, bubble has dent (bigger than a ding), tears on card,
- bubble separated from card over a small section, card colors are
- faded, cellophane ripped, price tag still in place, sticker tear
- (from removing price tag), card is punched.
-
- The prices listed in price guides for carded figures are for
- C-10 samples. The price drops dramatically (sometimes to about
- the same price as a loose mint figure) if there are significant
- defects."
-
- Q15: What does MIB mean?
- A15: From the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting FAQ:
-
- "MIB = mint in box. A toy is MIB if the toy inside is mint. MIB
- says that the box is, well, a box. MIB says nothing about box
- condition, an important aspect of value."
-
- Q16: What does MIMB mean?
- A16: MIMB = mint in mint box. A toy is MIMB if the toy inside is mint
- and the box that the toy is in is in mint condition. Both the box
- and the toy that is inside it must be in mint condition in order to
- fall under this category.
-
- Q17: What does MOC mean?
- A17: From the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting FAQ:
-
- "MOC = mint on card. This means the figure is in original
- unopened package. If there is any way the figure could be
- removed or has been removed, then it's *not* MOC. MOC says
- nothing about the condition of the card, which is the most
- important factor in the value of carded figures."
-
- Q18: What does MOMC mean?
- A18: MOMC = mint on mint card. This means the figure is in an original,
- unopened, mint condition package. Both the card and the figure
- inside must be in mint condition to fall under this category.
-
- Q19: If something is MIB or MOC, does that mean that the packaging, as
- well as the contents, are in mint condition?
- A19: No. If an item is being advertised as MIB or MOC, and you are
- concerned about the condition of the packaging, you *must* ask.
- Any honest seller will tell you the condition, in detail, of
- anything you are going to buy, unfortunately most sellers are
- dealers, and an "honest dealer" is a contradiction in terms (an
- excellent example of oxymoron for English class), so if nothing is
- stated specifically, ask.
-
- Q20: What does it mean when a card is punched?
- A20: From the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting FAQ:
-
- "It means the piece of cardboard for the rack hole is missing from
- the card."
-
- Q21: What is the best way to store carded figures?
- A21: From the rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting FAQ:
-
- "Your best bet to avoid yellowing and other damage is to store
- your carded figures in comic bags with a comic backing board.
- Place the board behind the card inside the bag and then seal the
- bag with tape along the bag (taping the bag to itself). Comic
- boxes make convenient storage units for carded figures stored in
- these comic bags. Sealing carded figures in comic bags reduces
- damage due to light, temperature, humidity, etc."
-
- Q22: Should I let the user's of rtm know if I've been ripped off by
- someone dealing on this newsgroup?
- A22: If all available means have been taken to ensure that the person
- you are dealing with has not made an honest mistake, and it has
- been determined, if possible, that the package is not still in
- transit or lost by the mail facility, it is then appreciated and
- highly appropriate to warn readers that certain persons should not
- be dealt with. You could save someone else the aggravation and
- loss of money that may result in dealing with this person, but it
- is important to first take all measures to ensure that you are not
- wrongly ruining a person's reputation by reacting hastily.
-
- Q23: I buy toys that I like, but I'd like to think that 20 years from
- now they'll be worth more than I paid. How do I know if I'm buying
- toys that'll do that, aside from not letting kids chew on them?
- Isn't it worth anything to buy obscure figures that get cancelled
- right away?
-
- From TZ (TWZ101@psuvm.psu.edu):
-
- "There are so many toys and figures being made and saved 'mint-in-
- the-box' today, that virtually none of them will be worth much in
- 10-20 years. In fact, using experience as a guide, many will
- probably DECLINE in price, as much of the current inflated prices
- are due to speculation and new-item hype. Just look at how the
- price of a Bane has dropped from $30 to $10-12, with no appreciable
- new flood of figures on the market. Or Malebolgia from $50-70 to
- $20-25. Or Clown, Overtkill, and Tremor, from $50-60 to
- essentially retail price. Remember when Man-Bat was a $25-30 item
- a couple of years ago? As Mr. Mint (Al Rosen) of baseball card
- fame claims, anything marketed as a collectible usually ISN'T in
- the long term.
-
- The other things to factor in here are liquidity and relative
- investment potential. Toys, like all collectables, are not
- considered liquid investments in that it is relatively difficult to
- dispose of them and convert their monetary value into other forms
- of investment. If you own stocks, you can sell them at virtually
- any time you want with just a phone call; if you want to pull money
- out of your savings account in a bank, you can do that on short
- notice too. This capital liquity allows you to shift investments
- into the most profitable opportunities (those with the highest
- percent return, balanced by risk factors) on very short notice.
- Liquity is one important key to a good investment strategy.
-
- Collectables, including toys, are terrible investments for three
- reasons:
-
- (1) They have very low liquidity. If you want to sell a toy, you
- have to (a) find a buyer who wants the toy, and (b) settle upon
- a mutually agreeable price. There is no standard pricing
- scheme for toys, and you can't just walk into the local bank
- and convert them into CDs or mutual fund shares. This involves
- a considerable transaction cost in time & effort, reducing your
- ability to deploy your money into more suitable investments
- should the outlook for your toys' long-term profitability
- become bleak. Toys prices also vary widely according to time,
- region, and market trend, and it is entirely possible to have a
- roomful of toys which simply NO ONE wants to buy from you at
- any price. Ever try to get rid of 1980s-era baseball card
- sets, especially 1986-89? These are essentially unsaleable
- items, whose market value has dropped by 50% in then-year
- terms, and even more so when inflation is taken into account,
- in less than a decade. And you can't turn them in at the
- supermarket for a box of Froot Loops, either! :-)
-
- (2) To a much greater degree than "secure" investments like face-
- value redeemable bonds or CDs, toys can depreciate considerably
- with physical damage, and, as stated before the transaction
- cost involved in speculating on them is considerable. Toy
- value is highly dependent on condition, which can change if you
- happen to leave them where the kids, dogs, flood water, or heat
- damage can get at them, or if you accidentally drop your 12-
- back Luke Skywalker, ding the corner of the card, and cut the
- value by 20% in about a second and a half. Also, toys are
- bulky items requiring considerable storage facilities and
- maintenance (after all, it costs money to heat the room where
- they're stored, you have to pay property taxes, etc. the larger
- your house is, you might need a larger apartment to store them,
- etc.) All this severely cuts into their profitability as
- investments, as overall investment costs have to be taken into
- account, not just sale value of the items in question. And if
- you have particularly valuable items, you'll have to insure
- them, an additional cost factor that cuts into your investment
- return.
-
- (3) Finally, any toy produced after 1985, and perhaps even 1980, is
- really "new" (less than 15 years old), and not a proven long-
- term secure investment. In essence, ANYONE who buys a toy now
- with the expectation that 20 years down the line it will be
- worth considerably more than one paid for it (remembering to
- take into account inflation and transaction costs) is a
- SPECULATOR, and speculation is an inherently risky business
- proposition, with potentially high payoffs (had you bought that
- case of 1985 POTF figures back in '85 when you had the
- chance...) but also potentially high risks (anybody want some
- Pac Man memorabilia or Donkey Kong stickers?). Hence, for the
- conservative to moderate-risk investor, they must be considered
- investments to be avoided.
-
- The other factor to be taken into account is RELATIVE investment
- potential. Simply put, relative to the profitability/risk ratios
- of other widely available consumer investments like mutual funds,
- toys are a bad way to invest your money. The possibility of
- hitting a gold mine is far less than ending up with a money pit,
- and, in a worst case scenario (no one but the Salvation Army will
- take your old toys off your hands) you will have lost all your
- money. It ranks up there with derivatives and risky land
- speculation in terms of the potential for a financial disaster.
- Despite what anyone might tell you, the vast majority of toys, even
- "popular" ones, are virtually worthless compared to the money you
- COULD have made systematically deploying your financial resources
- in other sectors. Most comic stores make their bread and butter on
- sales of new books, not because they stumble across copies of
- Action #1 in attics every day, or even because Joe Schmoe sold them
- a Phoenix figure for $8 that they turn around and sell for $12 or
- $20. That's just simply not the way these businesses work."
-
- --Scott Gordon a.k.a. Trekker Extraordinaire--
-
- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- See my home page, Coalesence. Your gateway to Scott's Sliders Site,
- The Toy Closet, and more.
-
- ____________ _-_ ______
- \__________|)____.---'---`---.____ __O_ ____/_____|
- || \----._________.----/ ======________/----------\
- || / ,' `---' (____/--------\______ |
- ___||_,--' -._ SCOTT GORDON \ \
- /___ 1:1 ||(- scottg10@ix.netcom.com __/____/__
- `---._____-' S0628904@dominic.barry.edu {__________{
- http://euclid.barry.edu/~gordon
- Maintainer of the rec.toys.misc FAQ
- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-
-