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Subject: Rec.arts.sf groups, an introduction
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Archive-name: sf/groups-intro

Changes this version:
  Jan 11, 2004: Added rec.arts.drwho.moderated
  Jan 07, 2000: Removed alt.music.filk; rec.music.filk has replaced it.
  Jul 19, 1999: Changed Science Fiction Resource Guide URL.
  Jan 13, 1999: Changed mailing list information for [e-mail];
new address to subscribe and for list email.
  Jan 7, 1999: Added alt.books.terry-goodkind and alt.books.terry-brooks,
and the Research Triangle Park SF Society mailing list.

Send questions and updates or comments to: [e-mail].

1. What does the 'sf' in 'rec.arts.sf.*' mean?
2. What rec.arts.sf.* groups are available?
3. What other 'sf' groups are available?
4. What mailing lists are there for similar topics?
5. What other resources are available on the net (WWW, gopher, etc)?
6. What are the current charters for the groups under rec.arts.sf.*?

1. What does the 'sf' in 'rec.arts.sf.*' mean?
  The 'sf' means 'Speculative Fiction'.  According to the call for votes
that created the original hierarchy, this was defined as: Both science
fiction and fantasy, as well as that vast blurred mass of material in
between.

2. What rec.arts.sf.* groups are available?

Here's a short, one-line-per-group listing of the groups:

rec.arts.sf.misc    Replaces rec.arts.sf-lovers as the catch-all
rec.arts.sf.announce     Announcements (moderated: [e-mail])
rec.arts.sf.composition    Discussion about writing speculative fiction
rec.arts.sf.fandom    Fannish activities, cons, etc.
rec.arts.sf.marketplace    Personal for-sale notices
rec.arts.sf.movies    SF movies that don't have their own groups
rec.arts.sf.reviews    Reviews of sf/fantasy/horror works (Moderated)
rec.arts.sf.science    Science and theory related to sf
rec.arts.sf.starwars.collecting Topics relating to Star Wars collecting
rec.arts.sf.starwars.games      SW games: RPG, computer, card, etc.
rec.arts.sf.starwars.info       General information about SW (Moderated)
rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc       Miscellaneous topics about SW
rec.arts.sf.superman    Discussion of Superman
rec.arts.sf.tv        SF tv shows that don't have their own groups
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5    Discussion about the Babylon 5 TV show
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.info Info about Babylon 5 (Moderated)
rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated    Moderated
rec.arts.sf.tv.quantum-leap    Quantum Leap TV, comics, cons, etc.
rec.arts.sf.written    Novels, stories, etc.
rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan    Books by Robert Jordan

3. What other 'sf' groups are available?
  rec.arts.books.tolkien
  rec.arts.drwho
    Discussions about the movies, the show, and anything and everything
    related to Dr. Who.
  rec.arts.drwho.moderated
  rec.arts.startrek.info.
    A distillation of news and information about Star Trek, including
    synopses of new episodes, convention reports, station airing times
    around the US and the world, and other tidbits of factual information
    about Trek.

    Moderated: send submissions to [e-mail]; questions
        or comments should be sent to
        [e-mail].
  rec.arts.startrek.current
  rec.arts.startrek.fandom
  rec.arts.startrek.misc
  rec.arts.startrek.tech
    Star Trek, all shows, movies, books, etc, related to the original
    show.  There's a monthly informational posting in those groups and
    news.answers and rec.answers which describes the groups in detail.
  rec.music.filk  Similar to alt.music.filk
  alt.binaries.multimedia.xena-herc
  alt.books.arthur-clarke
  alt.books.david-weber
  alt.books.deryni
  alt.books.isaac-asimov
  alt.books.larry-niven
  alt.books.m-lackey
  alt.books.moorcock
  alt.books.phil-k-dick
  alt.books.terry-goodkind    The works of Terry Goodkind.
  alt.books.terry-brooks    Discussion of Terry Brooks Works
  alt.cyberpunk
  alt.cyberpunk.chatsubo
    Virtual reality  via prose interaction.
  alt.fan.created-worlds    Discussion of published/televised worlds.
  alt.fan.douglas-adams
  alt.fan.eddings
  alt.fan.heinlein
  alt.fan.nathan-brazil
    Jack Chalker discussion, especially of the Well World series.
    (Nathan Brazil is the primary character in the Well World stories.)
  alt.fan.pern
    McCaffrey's Pern; also some discussions of her other books.
  alt.fan.piers-anthony
  alt.fan.pratchett
  alt.fan.tolkien
  alt.fandom.cons
  alt.fandom.misc
  alt.fantasy.conan    Robert E. Howard's characters, principally Conan.
  alt.fantasy.er-burroughs    Edgar Rice Burroughs' works.
  alt.galactic-guide
    An attempt to write a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, inspired by
    Douglas Adams.  Ongoing for several years.
  alt.sf4m
    A Science Fiction Forum.
  alt.tv.hercules    Discussion of HERCULES: THE LEGENDARY JOURNEYS.
  alt.tv.red-dwarf
  alt.tv.xena    Discussion of XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS.
  alt.tv.xena-subtext    Discusion of the subtext in X:WP.

4. What mailing lists are there for similar topics?

  Good question; I don't know, for the most part.  But I'll be adding them
as people tell me about them, and I believe there's a posting that lists
them, that I'll try to get permission to use.

[e-mail] (SF-Lovers Digest)
  Moderated, medium-to-high traffic.  This is gatewayed to/from
  some of the newsgroups: .written, .tv, .babylon5(.info), .movies,
  .reviews, .announce, .fandom, and .misc all feed into the Digest,
  while .written, .tv, .babylon5, .movies, and .misc are gatewayed.
  (There are actually a collection of lists.)
  For subscriptions or questions, send mail to:

        [e-mail].

[e-mail]
  SMOFS deals with convention-running. A low-traffic list.
  To get on smofs, send mail to [e-mail].  However,
  you should not join this list unless you have some experience with
  con-running.  It's not a general purpose mailing list.

========
[e-mail]    - Filk music in the UK

To subscribe, send an Email to [e-mail] with

SUBSCRIBE FILK_UK

in the text body, or go to http://www.filklore.com/filk_uk.html

The mail-lists are hosted by a BBS, which serves as a Fidonet/Internet
gateway for UK SF fans, and are themselves gated to related Fidonet echoes.
========
Lois Bujold Discussion List
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Lois McMaster Bujold Mailing List exists to allow discussion of the
works of Lois Bujold. If you wish to join the list send an email to
[e-mail] with subject blank and message body of
SUBSCRIBE LOIS-BUJOLD Miles Vorkosigan
(assuming your name is Miles Vorkosigan if it isn't, substitute your own name
instead, not your email address).


Mercedes Lackey Discussion List
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Mercedes Lackey Mailing List exists to allow discussion of the
works of Mercedes Lackey. If you wish to join the list send an email to
[e-mail] with subject blank and message body of
SUBSCRIBE MERCEDES-LACKEY Vanyel Ashkevron
(assuming your name is Vanyel Ashkevron if it isn't, substitute your own name
instead, not your email address).
========
tolkien-events
and
tolkien-sales,

to subscribe to either, send an email message of the usual form
to [e-mail]
or for help with subscribing write to
Pat Reynolds - [e-mail]
========
There is an SF-list run at :

[e-mail]

subscribe sf-list yourname

The list owner (Morgan Bottrell) must add you manually to the list.

There is a 'fantasy' list run by the same person, with the same directions
(use 'fantasy' instead of 'sf-list') - or so I presume; I wasn't given more
exact instructions.

========
The Liaden Unverse interest list can be written to at [e-mail]
to subscribe; this is concerned with the works of Sharon Lee and Steve
Miller.
========
There's a mailing list for writers, SFnF-Writers.  To subscribe, send
        subscribe sfnf-writers
to
        [e-mail]

========
[e-mail] (SF News)

Moderated, low traffic. Compiles news on all manner of speculative
fiction, in all media, from various USENET, mail, and WWW sources and
reader contributions. Archives available at
http://www.technopagan.org/sf-news/

To subscribe, send mail to [e-mail] with "subscribe
sf-news" in the message body.
========
SciFi_Discussion

The description of this mailing list is:

This List is intended for the discussion of Science Fiction (speculative
fiction). Whether you just like to read it or write it, feel free to
join in. The only proviso is that all discussions be kept mature and polite.
Posting of story ideas is welcome.  Criticism should be well thought out &
constructive! Tips on gaining publication are a plus! Feel free to discuss new
authors or old. If you know of SciFi authors with websites, feel free to post
them. Without readership, authors have no outlet for their ideas.

You can join this list by going to the following web page:

     http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/SciFi_Discussion
========

Dedicated to Laurell K. Hamilton's works (dark fantasy) (name not given).
The details are at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9071/welcome.html

========
The list, [e-mail]  Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list,
has changed subscribtion and mailing addresses.

New details:

[e-mail]  Fantasy & Science Fiction discussion list

To subscribe send a blank email to [e-mail]

FSF is a friendly spam and flame free mailing list for the discussion
of anything fantasy or SF related.  New opinions are always welcome.
The emphasis is on friendly (dis)agreement.  We have participents in
many different countries around the world.

The list has an archive of previous posts at
http://www.one.list.com/archives.cgi/fsf-list

To read the list FAQ go to
http://www.solarflare.freeseve.co.uk/fsf/index.html
========
The Research Triangle SF Society has an email list for discussion of
all things sf-related (although the topics do wander pretty far afield
sometimes!).  It's primarily for folks in central North Carolina, but
others are always welcome.

To subscribe, send email with a blank subject line to:
[e-mail]

In the body of the message, type:
subscribe rtsfs yourname

-----
5. What other resources are available on the net (WWW, gopher, etc)?

Please feel free to send me any URLs you might have, and a description of
what's available at that URL.

SF-Lovers web pages: http://sflovers.rutgers.edu/
  (Related to the SF-Lovers Digest list described above in 4; archives
   are available through this.  Also available are links to a lot of
   other SF-related sites, including author home pages.)
-----
The SF archive at Lysator:

    WWW:    http://sf.www.lysator.liu.se/sf_archive/sf_main.html
    gopher: gopher.lysator.liu.se
    ftp:    ftp.lysator.liu.se, /pub/sf-texts
-----
WWW sites related to Mercedes Lackey:
http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_list.html
http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_faq.html
http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/ism/lackey/lackey.html

WWW sites related to Lois McMasters Bujold:
The Bujold Nexus at http://www.herald.co.uk/~dendarii/

The Bujold Nexus contains information about and pointers to other sites with
info on Lois. It is the authorised Bujold Web site, and a earlier copy has
been seen by Lois.

It is mirrored at www.dendarii.demon.co.uk/Bujold/
-----
Hugo award winner Ansible is archived at
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Ansible

Harper Collins has an excellent site at
http://www.harpercollins.co.uk/voyager/
-----
A Science Fiction Resource Guide.  Covers almost everything there is in
the net on Science Fiction and Fantasy.  Includes links to most author
and genre FAQs, movies, TV, creative writings...you name it, it's
probably there!

http://sflovers.rutgers.edu/Web/SFRG/
-----

sflovers.rutgers.edu is a ftp site with contains SF related stuff.
Includes archives of their SF-Digest, various genre FAQs and a
bibiography of authors' books.

ftp: anonymous ftp to sflovers.rutgers.edu

-----

WWW FAQ on Isaac Asimov.  This is an extensive FAQ on Isaac Asimov.  It
covers both his writing and his personal life.  Contains pointers on
other stuff on Asimov on the net; bibliographies, some reviews and
miscellanous items.  A ASCII-based FAQ is also posted monthly on the
newsgroup alt.books.isaac-asimov.

BTW, a pointer to this FAQ is included in the SF Resource Guide so you
need not include this in your intro.  The reason I'm putting this here
is because I worked on the FAQ...};-)

www: http://www.lightside.com/SpecialInterest/asimov/asimov-faq.html

-----

Del Rey books have a gopher site.  The DRIN (Del Rey Internet
Newsletter) is archived there, as well as FAQs related to Del Rey.
Excerpts of upcoming books can be found here.

gopher: panix.com (under subdirectory Del Rey Books)
www   : gopher://gopher.panix.com/11/DRB

There is also a Del Rey website:

http://www.randomhouse.com/delrey/

-----

Information about Tor Books can be found at www.tor.com -- this is a
huge installation featuring information about forthcoming books, sample
chapters from some of them, announcements of interest, and links to
bookstores, other sf publishers, sf online, and author home pages.

-----

Internet Book Information Centre (IBIC).  A information center for
general books, but includes points to genre specific stuff.

www: http://sunsite.unc.edu/ibic/IBIC-homepage.html

-----

The Stilyagi Air Corps Calendar.  It's a listing of SF/F Conventions, and
"Stilyagi Parties" (Gatherings of Michigan fandom at people's homes that
are open to the public.)  The list is maintained by Chad Childers, and
is kept current.  (*MUCH* more so than the convention listing at
Lysator!)
    http://www.stilyagi.org/con.list.html

-----

Authors of the Liaden Universe homepage: http://www.korval.com/liad.htm

-----

A site dedicated to Marion Zimmer Bradley and to the Darkover series:

In English:
http://www.ceremade.dauphine.fr/~rossi/darkover/index.uk.html

In French:
http://www.ceremade.dauphine.fr/~rossi/darkover/index.html

-----

Science Fiction Weekly is the leading electronic publication covering
the world of science fiction. They cover news, reviews, original artwork
and celebrity interviews, and they are freely available on the World Wide
Web at:

   http://www.scifiweekly.com

They are currently published in conjunction with the Sci-Fi Channel,
although the editorial content is produced independent of the
Sci-Fi Channel and its staff.

-----

There's an on-line writer's workshop/critique group:
        http://www.critique.org/users/critters

-----

A world wide web page on Internet Info about the Hitchhiker's
Guide to the Galaxy: http://www.angelfire.com/md/yorkminor/

-----

URL   http://www.smof.com

What's there: European SF Convention listing and various articles on
convention running which are being continually updated and new additions
are welcome. The Intersection post-con analysis "Another Fine Nessie"
should be there, as well.

contact: [e-mail]

-----

Off of http://www.xenite.org/index.htm, there are:

alt.tv.hercules FAQ:  http://www.xenite.org/faqs/hercfaq.htm
Soon-to-be if not already there: FAQ for alt.binaries.multimedia.xena-herc
XENA ONLINE RESOURCES: http://www.xenite.org/xenaonln.htm
  with over 300 URLs for fans of HECRULES and XENA (and even fans of Bruce
  Campbell/"Army of Darkness").
Witch World Page: http://www.xenite.org/witchwor.htm
Witch World Message Board: http://www.xenite.org/boards/witchwor.html

-----

        New England Science Fiction Association
            http://www.nesfa.org

        Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society
            http://www.lasfs.org

    These are both fannish organizations (volunteer,
    not-for-profit) each runs an annual regional convention.
    LASFS runs the occasional World Con

-----

The SF-Lovers Convention List, containing listings of
conventions all over the world.

The URL is: http://sflovers.rutgers.edu/Web/cons.html

-----

The Fannish Email Directory:

http://www.osfci.org/fannish.net.txt

6. What are the current charters for the groups under rec.arts.sf.*?

Here's a list, in the same order as the groups appear in the list in question
2.  I use the word 'current' because, while most of these haven't changed
since the dawn of creation, the rec.arts.sf.reviews one has changed to
include a new submission address.

rec.arts.sf.misc
     Charter: Group rec.arts.sf.misc will be the general-purpose
              and spillover group for science fiction and fantasy
          discussions that do not find a more specific subgroup
          under rec.arts.sf.*, or that would otherwise require
          wide crossposting among the other subgroups.

rec.arts.sf.announce (moderated, <[e-mail]>)
     Charter: (moderated) Announcements of happenings in the
              SF world, such as cons, including calls for con
              participation, readings, deaths, honors, new SF
              mailing lists, periodic postings of rec.arts.sf
              subgroup charters and other administrivia,
              signings, TV specials, meetings, shop openings and
              closings, etc. Not for personal or commercial ads.
     Send submissions to: [e-mail]; questions to
    the moderator address above.

rec.arts.sf.composition

     Charter: Before discussing the newsgroup, one must define 'sf', for
          which I refer to the original CFV for the group that created
          the rec.arts.sf.* hierarchy:  "Both science fiction and
          fantasy, as well as that vast blurred mass of material in
          between."  This charter mirrors the position of the HWA:
          Horror is an emotion, not a genre.  If the Horror takes place
          in a speculative fiction book, it can be discussed in an sf
          newsgroup.

          The rec.arts.sf.composition newsgroup would include, but not be
          limited to the following types of discussion:

          General writing questions, to be answered from the sf
          perspective.  This includes market research, submission
          format and discussions on the process of writing itself,
          as it connects with the writing of sf.

          Discussion of the process of writing speculative fiction
          between professionals, aspiring writers or the merely interested.

          Discussion of the methods and processes of worldbuilding,
          the creation of new, alternate or historically-based worlds
          in which speculative fiction is often set.

          This newsgroup is not meant to replace or significantly
          overlap other groups.  As such, topics that are on-topic
          and useful in other groups should be kept to those groups.
          That would include, but not be limited to the following
          exclusions:

          Discussion connected to writing, but not specifically
          to sf, nor with an important sf slant should be posted
          in misc.writing.

          Discussion about the science used in speculative fiction
          should be posted to rec.arts.sf.science.

          Discussion of existing written work should be left to
          rec.arts.sf.written.

          As well, the charter specifically excludes the posting of work
          unless that posting is specifically related to a topic that is
          being discussed, and is used in that context, and quoted briefly.
          Posting of work to be read and/or critiqued is excluded from the
          charter of this newsgroup, for a number of reasons.  For
          those who wish to avail themselves of the group's resources, a
          specially marked header, "CRIT:  " will be used to post short
          requests for critiquing or reading, with all followups directed
          to email, the poster's web page, rec.arts.prose, or any other
          valid forum, rather than the newsgroup.

          As for advertising, overt advertising is excluded from the
          group, particularly off-topic overt advertising (the kind that
          doesn't care what this charter says anyway).  Tactful, brief,
          infrequently posted references to information that can be
          found elsewhere will be tolerated, but advertisers must tread
          that fine line carefully if they wish to avoid flamage from
          ad-hating regulars.

rec.arts.sf.fandom
     Charter: Discussions of fannish activities; meant to provide
              a new home for the SF-related part of the traffic
              currently posted to alt.fandom.* and similar
              postings current in rec.arts.sf-lovers.

rec.arts.sf.marketplace
     Charter: A place for personal wanted-to-buy and for-sale ads
              for SF related materials.  Personal ads only;
              commercial ads belong in comp.newprod or commercial
              advertising channels, not elsewhere on USENet.  Do
              NOT crosspost ads; those looking to buy or sell SF
              stuff will be reading this group and just annoyed
              by ads mixed in elsewhere.

rec.arts.sf.movies
     Charter: Discussions of all aspects of SF related movies not
              otherwise covered in more specific groups (such as
              the Star Trek group).  Specifically includes
              screenplays looking for producers, and discussions
              of novelizations as compared to the movie base;
              discussion of novelizations independent of the
              related movie belong in .written.

rec.arts.sf.reviews (moderated)
    Charter: Reviews and critical discussion of SF/fantasy/horror
         works.  Works include novels, short fiction, movies,
         music, periodicals, art, etc., that are of interest to
         the SF community.  Reviews are expected to conform to
         the guidelines in the FAQ "Welcome to rec.arts.sf.reviews"
         posted to the group periodically and available by
         anonymous FTP on the host net.bio.net [134.172.2.69]
         (file: sf-reviews/welcome).  Archives of the group are also
         available on net.bio.net in the directory misc/sf-reviews.
         Submissions should be sent to [e-mail];
         comments to the moderators should be sent to
         [e-mail].

rec.arts.sf.science
     Charter: A home for the spinoff discussion of real and
              speculative science and sometimes about how the
              laws of science could be used in creating new SF
              universes.

rec.arts.sf.tv
     Charter: A group for discussing general television SF, both
              live acted and cartoons.  Note that some tv shows,
          (such as Dr. Who and Star Trek) have their own
          specialized newsgroups as well.

rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5
     Charter: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 is to be an unmoderated newgroup
          dedicated to the following topics:

              * The plots and characters of "Babylon 5" episodes.
              * The possible ties between episodes in the 5-year story arc
              * The special-effects techniques and technology
              * Musings and speculations about where the show is going.
              * AND NOT, NOT, NOT, NOT story ideas and/or fan-fiction.

          J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5's creator, (hereafter: JMS)
          has stated flatly that for legal reasons that if any story
          ideas appear on a "B5" newsgroup he will be forced to leave the
          electronic forum. This would be, to our reckoning, a
          net.tragedy, and is to be avoided at all costs.

          Solutions such as forfeiture of copyrights to JMS with all
          postings, etc, have been considered, but ultimately rejected.
          This forum can only survive through the good will of its users,
          PLEASE do not destroy it for the rest of us.

          In the event of legal action in the future resulting from
          someone's disregard of this rule, I offer myself, Brian Badger,
          to be subpoenaed to testify as to the nature of this charter,
          and its prohibition.  It's an ugly job...

rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.info
    Charter: The purpose of this group is to provide an uncluttered
          resource of information and news pertaining to the television
          program _Babylon 5_. rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.info is a
          moderated newsgroup, which means that all articles must be
          submitted to the moderator for approval before they will be
          posted.  Articles appearing in this newsgroup should generally
          fall into one of the following categories:

          1) Official press releases and notices pointing to coverage
          of _Babylon 5_ in the media (but copies of copyrighted
          material *only* with expressed permission), and announcements
          of B5-related events such as conventions and star appearances.

          2) Episode schedules, guides and summaries, and announcements
          of airing time changes.

          3) Announcements, commentary and background material on
          _Babylon 5_ from J. Michael Straczynski, the show's
          executive producer.  This will include compilations of
          his writings from online services such as GEnie and
          CompuServe and very selective repostings of substantial
          commentary from rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.  The latter
          category will specifically *not* include his short answers
          about details of past episodes.

          4) Other material believed by the moderators to be of interest
          to a broad base of B5 fans.

          Volume should not exceed a few messages a day.

          Submit proposed articles to:
               [e-mail]

rec.arts.sf.tv.quantum-leap
     Charter: rec.arts.sf.tv.quantum-leap will be designed to create a specific
          forum for discussing the many aspects of the Quantum Leap
          television series, which is now in syndication on two cable
          networks.  The aspects that can be talked about are (but are
          not limited to) the television program, the comic book, QL
          conventions, the video releases, and whatever else can be found
          to talk about between the "Leapers."  Now, the group will be
          unmoderated to allow more freedom on what can be talked about.
          There has, as of late, been a considerable amount of QL traffic on
          rec.arts.sf.tv.  Perhaps the new newsgroup would allow more
          space for other discussion on rec.arts.sf.tv, and
          rec.arts.sf.tv.quantum-leap would be an exclusive place for
          Leapers to talk.  Also, many Usenet sites do not have Alt.ql
          creative as a group choice and, therefore, do not know of the
          existance of QL discussion.


rec.arts.sf.written
     Charter: A group for discussing the general SF which is seen
              by its audience in written form, whether printed or
              online.  Note that many more specific groups in
              rec.arts.sf.* exist to pull some traffic from this
              group, but in general, this is where new releases
              are discussed, informal reviews given, continuity
              topics discussed, authors compared, and is the
              starting point for many threads which should
              eventually be moved to more appropriate groups.
              (Please cooperate when the call is put forward to
              move a discussion to a more specific group.)


rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan
     Charter: This newsgroup, rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan, was
              created in July 1994 for the discussion of books written
              by contemporary author Robert Jordan.  In particular, this
              newsgroup is concerned with his ongoing "Wheel of Time"
              series, but also covers past and future works by him.
              Fandom is specifically included within the purview of this
              charter.  The group is unmoderated.


Leanne Phillips
"Do not meddle with the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick
to anger."  (I don't want to hear other versions.  I've heard them all before.)
Words to live by: "Violence is the refuge of the incompetent."
    (Yes, I know it isn't right; it's deliberate.)
--
Leanne
We have tasted fear./We have breathed in grief.
We have swum in hate./We have witnessed strength.
- Last verse of my poem in memoriam of the September 11 tragedy.