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Subject: [rec.scouting.issues] Commonly asked questions (FAQ 2)
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Archive-name: scouting/rec.scouting.issues
Last-Modified: 7 July 2003

Recent Changes
06/14/03   Added: Is this group moderated? Information   about a moderated
email list
06/14/03   Added: Are there councils that ignore national BSA policies
10/23/02   Added: I heard most United Ways Have Dropped BSA funding, is it
true?
10/31/02   Added: I heard Wiccans can't be BSA Scouts, is that true?
10/31/02   Changed: What is the Declaration of Religious Principles
(DRP)?

This file gives information for the rec.scouting.issues group.

Nothing in the FAQ represents official statements by any organization
mentioned in this FAQ.   If you are interested in official statements
from any organization, please request the information from the
organization itself.   Information in the FAQ may be out of date
or inaccurate.

No one in this group speaks for the BSA or any organization.
Statements made on the rec.scouting groups
may or may not reflect national policy, rules, regulations, etc.   Things
said in this group reflect the belief/opinion/guess/unfulfilled desire/hope
of the individual.   Most statements should
contain words such as 'in my council/district/unit, this is the way we
do it' rather than blanket statements of what is right or wrong.

THIS GROUP IS NOT INTENDED FOR THE DISCUSSION OF PROGRAM
TOPICS OR ADVERTISING.   SITES REFERENCED IN THIS FAQ ARE
MANAGED BY SEPARATE ENTITIES.   WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACCURACY
OF INFORMATION AT ANY SITE REFERENCED ON THIS FAQ.

Please see the rec.scouting.usa and rec.scouting.misc groups
(and their FAQs) for more information

The Frequently Ask Questions (FAQ) files for all Scouting groups
are archived at the following sites:
   http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scouting/
   http://www.faqs.org/#FAQHTML


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   General Information -- rec.scouting.issues

Welcome to rec.scouting.issues, the newsgroup for boy and girl
Scouts, Guides, Cub Scouts, Venturers, Rovers, Camp Fire,
Leaders and all people interested in Scouting and guiding
related issues, worldwide.

Rec.scouting.issues concentrates on discussing issues
within and between the national and regional organizations and local
users or implementers of these programs.
This group is open to any issue relating to these
organizations. For example, anything relating to the "the 3Gs" in the
USA
(gays in Scouting, gender specific Scouting
organizations, God in the Scout Oath), or alcoholic beverage consumption
during Scouting activities and camps in European programs, or
issues of youth versus adult leadership in short term camping events.

See FAQ #1 for our Charter and important information about the
rec.scouting.* groups.

This document introduces new readers to the preferred Etiquette for
rec.scouting.issues and answers a number of frequently asked questions
posted to the rec.scouting.issues group.

If you have a useful item that hasn't been included in this FAQ, please
do all of us the favor. Write it up and post it on rec.scouting.issues.
Drop me a copy too to make sure that I include it in this file.

As the FAQ files are updated regularly, make sure that you have the
latest copy in your hands. The release date of this FAQ is indicated in
the line starting with "Last-Modified:" at the top of this file. Files
older than three months should be considered as outdated.
This file or parts of it may be freely used, printed and re-distributed
as long as you enclose this paragraph and keep the references to the
respective contributors and to the maintainer (listed below) intact.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Is this group moderated?
Date: 14 June 2003

No, rec.scouting.issues is not a moderated group and can be a bit rough
at times.
A more gentile and moderated email list is available for those who
Would like to communicate there.   Here is a description of that email
group:
A moderated counterpart to the Usenet newsgroup rec.scouting.issues,=20
for discussion about membership and other issues connected to the=20
Boy Scouts of America. The purpose of this group is to reduce
cross-posting,=20
spam, and gratuitous insults sometimes found on Usenet. A lively yet
civil=20
discussion of issues is encouraged.
To subscribe to that list, send a note to:
[e-mail]


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Etiquette Guidelines -- Rec.scouting.issues
Date: 27 April 1996

                                                 =
*** ETIQUETTE GUIDELINES ***

Before reading any further, please go to the newsgroup
news.announce.newusers and read the posting: Rules for posting
to Usenet.     That message describes some of the rules of conduct
on Usenet.   Posters to the rec.scouting* hierarchy are
expected to follow these rules.

Read also the rec.scouting.* FAQ #1 which contains
Etiquette guidelines specific to the rec.scouting*
hierarchy.   The following guidelines are particularly
important to remember for rec.scouting.issues.

o   By the nature of this group, many discussions are of
     very controversial topics.   It is therefore expected that
     Scouts, Guides and Scouters adhere to their organization's
     oath, promise or law at all times.

     To quote again from the Williamsburg Charter:
     Those who claim the right to dissent should assume the
           responsibility to debate.
     Those who claim the right to criticize should assume the
           responsibility to comprehend
     Those who claim the right to influence should accept the
           responsibility not to inflame
     Those who claim the right to participate should accept the
           responsibility to persuade

o   Advertising is not welcome on rec.scouting.issues.
     This is NOT the group to post advertisements,
     Web page announcements, patch trading and the like.

o   Please do not "flame" (insult) anyone in this newsgroup.
     Discussions will naturally bring disagreements,
     however, rebuttals should always be made
     in a polite, respectful, rational, logical and mature manner.

o   Please remember the scope of this newsgroup is to discuss
     issues related to Scouting and guiding.   If you find that your
     discussion is going outside of this scope, please take it to =
another
     group or off-line.

o   Please avoid posting to rec.scouting.issues and
     another group outside of the rec.scouting groups (cross-posting).
     The postings quickly expand beyond the subject of
     Scouting and become very difficult to conclude.   Let's keep the
     Scouting policy discussions in the Scouting newsgroup,
     rather than pulling in "issue specialists" from other groups.

     If you feel people in another group might be interested in a
     discussion, go over to the other group and post a message
     pointing to the discussion in rec.scouting.issues.
     Interested people will come over to rec.scouting.issues
     to join in the discussion.

     Watch for cross-postings carefully.   Before posting
     a reply, please double check the newsgroup line to make sure
     you are not posting to other newsgroups unintentionally. If you
     must cross-post, make sure your responses are phrased in
     such a way as to not start an argument.   Remember, most people =
to
     not hunt out rec.scouting.issues to start an argument--but if you
     keep a discussion going in another group by cross-posting your
     views, they'll generally return the favor.   Also, statements =
and
     discussions appropriate on rec.scouting.issues may be seen as
     inappropriate on other groups.

o   The bottom line:   Remember the subject here is Scouting Issues.
     Please stay on topic, be polite, and respect other people's views
     and defend their right to have an opinion.   In other words,
     act in a scout-like manner.


      FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS IN REC.SCOUTING.ISSUES

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   We   have noticed some 'adult' messages being posted. Are =
these
permitted?
Date: 27 April 1998

Q. We have noticed some 'adult' messages being posted. Are these
permitted?
A. NO! But unfortunately there is little that can be done about them at
the moment.
The important thing to remember is NOT to reply to any 'adult'
messages. Normally, the messages will be removed from the server after
just a few hours but if you reply to them, your reply may remain
available for all to see.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What does 3G mean?
Date: 27 April 1996

Q.   What does 3G mean?

A.   3G stands for God, gays and girls as these subjects
relate to Scouting. These are three hot issues within Scouting in
the USA and are also being brought up in other countries.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Is this where I can get official information?
Date: 27 Dec 1997

Q.     Is this where I can obtain official information from my =
Scouting
               organization?

A.     No, official information from organizations is not normally
               communicated via rec.scouting.issues.   This FAQ =
should not
               be considered as an official communication from =
any Scouting
               organization.   It is simply a collection of =
questions and
               answers compiled by people who frequent =
rec.scouting.issues.
               See FAQ #1 for more information.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Are Scouting and guiding organizations on the Net?

Q. Do Scouting organizations have official information on the net that
       describes their structure and some policies?

A. Yes, some do:
       Guiding and Scouting organizations can be found off of:
       the InterNETional Scouting Page =
http://scout.strw.leidenuniv.nl
       the US Scouting Service Project Page: http://www.usscouts.org/
       The YAHOO Index: =
http://www.yahoo.com/Recreation/Outdoors/Scouting/
       The WOSM Web page is at: http://www.scout.org
       The WAGGGS Web page is at:   http://www.wagggs.org
       The GSUSA Web page at:   www.girlscouts.org
       The BSA Web page is at: http://bsa.scouting.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   Which countries have single gender Scouting or Guiding?
Date:   10 May 2001

Q.   Which countries have single gender Scouting or Guiding?

A.   Scouting varies greatly around the world, there are
fully co-ed programs (with no options) to single gender at some levels
(typically pre-teen) then co-ed optional after that (which is what the
BSA is), to co-ed at all levels, to fully single gender (which is what
the
GSUSA is).

In some cases, the boy and girl programs are handled separately
but the organizations are united into
a Scout or Guide group. You can get a good idea by looking at
the symbol of Scouting in that country. If the trefoil of the girls is
combined with the fleur-de-lis of boys, the movements are combined in
some
manner. More information about the specifics of each country can be
found at
their sites on the web.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Where can I find a copy of the BSA and GSUSA Congressional
Charters?
Date: 5 Dec 2000

Q. Where can I find a copy of the BSA and GSUSA Congressional Charters?

A. The U.S. House of Representatives' Web page (http://www.house.gov)
     has a database of U.S. Codes (Laws).
     The BSA charter is under Title 36, Subtitle II, Part B, Chapter =
309,
Sections
30901-30908   (36 USC 309)
     GSUSA Charter is Title 36, Subtitle II, Part B, Chapter 803, =
Sections
80301-80307 (36 USC 803)

     The BSA charter is also at:
         http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/ch2.html

     Excerpts from the Federal Charter can be found at:
       http://usscouts.org/aboutbsa/bsacharter.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Is the word Scout or Scouts Copyrighted or Trademarked?
Date:   23 Dec 1998

The BSA "owns" the names "Boy Scouts of America", "Scout", "Boy
Scouting",
and
"Scouting", as used within the United States.     This is granted by
a FEDERAL CHARTER from our Congress, and
under this charter, the Government of the United States granted the
organization called corporately "Boy Scouts of America" the sole and
exclusive right to have and to use, in carrying out its purposes,
all emblems and badges, descriptive or designating marks, and words
or phrases now or heretofore used by the Boy Scouts of America in
carrying
out
its program.

The GSUSA also holds a federal charter on its title.

According to a House of Representatives report accompanying the
Bill incorporating the Boy Scouts:
"If any boy can secure these badges without meeting the required
test the badges will soon be meaningless and one of the leading
features of the Scout program will be lost. Likewise with the
uniform which designates the Scout. At the present time this is
protected by the use of insignia - a seal woven or stamped into
the cloth. All of these various badges and insignia are at
present protected by the patent laws but under the patent laws
such protection is available for a limited period only. The
passing by Congress of this bill will, it is believed, provide the
organization with protection for its distinctive insignia, the
integrity of which is essential to the maintenance of the
movement, and protect it from those who are seeking to profit by
the good repute and high standing and popularity of the Scout
movement by imitating it in name alone."

Both BSA and GSUSA have a large number of registered
trademarks for different aspects of the Scouting program. All printed
material, such as the Handbook, is protected by copyright.

The Congress has also granted federal charters to:

*The American Red Cross (which keeps other organizations and programs
from
using "Red Cross" and the emblematic red cross; the BSA was caught in
this
and
when the ARC threatened to sue the BSA over this, the BSA changed their
First
Aid Merit badge to a GREEN CROSS with a RED background.   This is also
why
the
Safety Merit Badge has a WHITE CROSS (instead of "Green Cross for
Safety{tm}",
which is a registered trademark of the National Safety Council) with a
GREEN
background)

*The American Legion (which has trademarked the word "Legionnaire" as
used
in
the United States, to refer to members of their organization; of course,
those
everywhere in the world using the word "Legionnaire" may be referring to
the
French Foreign Legion or to the American Legion or several other
"legions".)

The federal charter is little more than a trademark law.   Most
organizations
hold trademarks and
to do so, they get laws passed on either the State or Federal level.
Some
of these organizations
discriminate in religious afiliation or gender.

Other congressional charters have gone to:
The Girl Scouts
Future Farmers of America
The Red Cross
Pershing Hall Memorial Fund
The Foundation of the Federal Bar Association
Boys & Girls Clubs of America
Big Brothers - Big Sisters of America
Jewish War Veterans, U.S.A., National Memorial, Inc.
Blue Star Mothers of America
National Woman's Relief Corps, Auxiliary to the Grand Army of the
         Republic
Little League Baseball, Inc.
Gold Star Wives of America
National Society, Daughters of the American Colonists
General Federation of Women's Clubs

and many more...

The Federal Charter can be found at:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/ch2.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is the WOSM position on God and Religion in Scouting?
Date: 31 Mar 2002

The World Organization of the Scout Movement is an
international, non-governmental organization composed of
its recognized national Scout organizations. Its governing
body is the World Conference, which meets every three
years, and its executive is the World Committee
composed of elected volunteers.

The World Organization of the Scout Movement has issued a number
of publications which summerize the principles of the WOSM
and the place of Duty to God in the movement.

"The principles of Scouting, or values it stands for, are normally
summarized in three categories:
"Duty to God" - a person's relationship with the spiritual values of
life, the fundamental belief in a force above mankind.
"Duty to others" - a person's relationship with, and responsibility
within, society in the broadest sense of the term: his or her family,
local community, country and the world at large, as well as respect
for others and for the natural world.
"Duty to self" - a person's responsibility to develop his or her own
potential, to the best of that person's ability.
What is important to underline here is the exact function of the
principles, or values, within Scouting.
At the level of the Movement as a whole, they represent Scouting's
vision of society, the ideals it stands for and the image it projects.
For anyone joining the Movement, the principles represent those
elements which each individual must be open to accept and must
be willing to do his or her best to follow. This initial acceptance
does not, and certainly cannot in the case of young people, imply
in any way an understanding of the full significance of these values;
this can only be acquired through membership of the Movement
over a period of time. By contrast, a rejection by an individual of
these principles disqualifies him or her from membership of the
Movement, which is open to all provided they agree with its
purpose, principles and method.
Once a young person has expressed his or her initial acceptance
of these principles, through making the promise, the whole
educational process within Scouting consists in enabling the young
person to gradually understand these values, adhere to them and
make them his or her own so that they permeate the person's
behaviour throughout life. In the Founder's words "Self-education,
that is, what a boy learns for himself, is what is going to stick by
him and guide him later on in life, far more than anything that is
imposed upon him through instruction by a teacher".

....

In return, the Scout Movement requires a commitment from the
individual member - a commitment, first and foremost, to respect
and act according to the fundamental principles of the Movement:
duty to God, duty to others and duty to self. This commitment
is made through making the Scout promise, which is the public
expression of the willingness to do one's best to adhere to a code
of living based on these ideals.
This voluntary commitment to the Scout Movement extends also to
achieving the educational purpose of Scouting. This applies to
youth members, insofar as their own personal development is
concerned; indeed the voluntary commitment is an essential
component of Scouting's educational process, influencing motivation
and personal attitude, being in control of one's own personal
development, setting personal objectives, self-drive, etc.
....
Adults in the Movement must also be committed to Scouting's
purpose, principles and method, as their role is to help youth
members, directly or indirectly, to achieve their full potentials. This
leads to a strong sense of shared responsibility and partner-ship
among all members of the Movement: youth and adult,
"volunteer" and "professional".

Also implicit in the fact that becoming a member of the Scout
Movement is a voluntary act is the recognition that what the
Movement offers to young people - its educational proposal - is
not suited to everyone. Thus, not all young people are potential
members of the Scout Movement; there are those who, for
whatever reason, will never be attracted to it or find it possible to
adhere to its fundamental principles. What is critical, however, is
that the Scout Movement offers the possibility to join, to all those
who wish to, and does not construct barriers to membership that
are based on factors other than the fundamentals of the Movement.
....
It is important to note that what protects the Movement when it is
threatened by outside forces is the fact that its nature and specific
identity are internationally defined and agreed upon by all Scout
associations. For example, challenges to the Movement's fundamental
principles in any particular country can be defended on the basis of
conditions of membership of the World Movement.

From:   "The Essential Characteristics of Scouting", World Scout =
Bureau,
1998.
http://www.wosm.org/cgi-bin/fs?f1=3D/navwso.html&f2=3D/wso/publications.h=
tml

For a history of "Duty to God" in Scouting and a discussion
of promise variations (not alternate promises), see chapter 4 in:
SCOUTING AND SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT, October 2001
http://www.scout.org/library/spiritualdev_e.pdf

Also see:
"Scouting in Practice: Ideas for Scout Leaders", World Scout Bureau,
1996
(revised 1997).
http://www.wosm.org/cgi-bin/fs?f1=3D/navwso.html&f2=3D/wso/publications.h=
tml

"Scouting: An Educational System", World Scout Bureau, 1998.
http://www.wosm.org/library/ScoutEducSyst_E.pdf

For more information on who the WOSM is see:
http://www.wosm.org/wso/wso.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What was Baden-Powell's position on God and Religion in
Scouting?
Date: 16 Dec 1998

Q. What was Baden-Powell's position on God and Religion in Scouting?

Baden-Powell founded Scouting in England around 1905.   Here is what he
had to say about God and Religion in Scouting.

"A careful analysis of the Founder's writings shows that
the concept of a force above man is basic to Scouting.   The whole
educational approach of the Movement consists in helping young
people to transcend the material world and go in search of the
spiritual values of life."   (The Fundamental Principles of the WOSM
http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/lkmorlan/Fundamental_Principles.html)

"When asked where religion came into Scouting and Guiding, Baden-
Powell replied, It does not come in at all.   It is already
there.   It is a fundamental factor underlying Scouting and
Guiding." (Religion and the Boy Scout and Girl Guides Movement--
an address, 1926).

"I don't mean by this the mere soldiering and sailoring services; we
have no military aim or practice in our movement; but I mean the ideals
of service for their fellow-men.   In other words, we aim for the
practice
of Christianity in their everyday life and
dealings, and not merely the profession of its theology on Sundays....
The co-operation of tiny sea insects has brought about the formation of
coral islands. No enterprise is too big where there is goodwill and
co-operation carrying it out. Every day we are turning away boys
anxious to join the Movement, because we have no the men or women
to take them in hand. There is a vast reserve of loyal patriotism and
Christian spirit lying dormant in our nation to-day, mainly because it
sees no direct opportunity for expressing itself. Here in this joyous
brotherhood there is vast opportunity open to all in a happy work that
shows results under your hands and a work that is worth while because it
gives every man his chance of service for his fellow-men and for God. "
(Scouting for Boys 1908)

"No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys His
laws.   So every Scout should have a religion....Religion seems
a very simple thing:   First: Love and serve God.   Second: Love
and serve your neighbour."   (Scouting for Boys)

"The atheists... maintain that a religion that has to be learnt
from books written by men cannot be a true one.   But they don't
seem to see that besides printed books... God has given us as one
step the great Book of Nature to read; and they cannot say that
there is untruth there - the facts stand before them...   I do not
suggest Nature Study as a form of worship or as a substitute for
religion, but I advocate the understanding of Nature as a step,
in certain cases, towards gaining religion" (Rovering to
Success, Robert Baden-Powell, 1930, p. 181).

"Development of outlook naturally begins with a respect for God, which
we
may
best term "Reverence.
Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbour and reverence for
oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every
form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies
with every sect and denomination. What sect or
denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule, on his parents'
wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect
their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence,
whatever form of religion the boy professes.
There may be many difficulties relating to the definition of the
religious
training in our Movement where so many different
denominations exist, and the details of the expression of duty to God
have,
therefore, to be left largely in the hands of the
local authority. But there is no difficulty at all in
suggesting the line to take on the human side, since direct duty to
one's
neighbour is implied in almost every form of belief."
(Aids to Scoutmastership, 1919)

Katharine Furse described him with more than a hint of tongue-in-cheek
as 'the inspired mystic of Scouting', but this was actually how he
was seen by millions.   This image owed much to his growing tendency to
represent Scouting as a form of religion.   "Scouting is nothing
less than applied Christianity," he had written in
the introduction to a pamphlet entitled Scouting and Christianity in
1917.
In 1921 in a pamphlet entitled "The Religion in the Woods" argued
that observing the beauties of nature was the best way in which to
apprehend
God and that no one religion held a monopoly of truth. This made him
very unpopular with churchmen...   Bishop Joseph Butt, auxiliary bishop
to
the
Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster, accused Baden-Powell of
"sweeping with one magnificent gesture
the Christian Revelation, Mohammadanism , and all the rest, into a heap
of
private opinions which do not matter much." In the next edition of the
"Headquarters Gazette", Baden-Powell obliged his horrified Committee by
assuring readers that it was "not his intention to attack Revealed
Religion
or to suggest a substitute for it." But he never regretted what he had
said,
nor that he had invited Muslims and Buddhists to recite prayers at
Gilwell.
He quoted Carlyle as saying: 'The religion of a man is not the creed
he professes but his life -- what he acts upon, and knows of life, and
his duty in it.   A bad man who believes in a creed is no more =
religious
than the good man who does not.   Baden-Powell's public refusal to
countenance
the exclusive claims of any one religion was accompanied by the
increasingly
fervent references to 'God' in his speeches.
(The Boy-Man by Tim Jeal, pg 515)

Also see:
   The Founder's Thoughts on Christianity, Religion and Scouting
       http://members.tripod.com/~kclocke/index-6.html
   Baden-Powell on Reverence
       http://www.umcscouting.org/ministry/BP_Reverence.htm


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   Was Baden-Powell a Freemason?

No.   Despite the similarities in the philosophies of Freemasonry
and the Scouting movement, we have been unable to trace any evidence
that Lord Baden-Powell was a Freemason.   For more information see:
http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-freemasonry.htm


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What was Baden-Powell's vision for Scouting?
Date: 3 May 1998

Q.   What was Baden-Powell's vision for Scouting?

A.   There is a lot of tradition in the Scout Movement around the =
world.
Sometimes we wonder where a lot of it came from, and whether or
not we are following Baden-Powell's vision of what Scouting should be.
Are we part of a unique educational approach to learning about life, or
is
there
something we are missing?     How about going back to the Founder's
own words to find out?

Lord Baden-Powell wrote:
"Let us, therefore, in training our Scouts, keep the
higher aims in the forefront, not let ourselves get too absorbed in
the steps.   Don't let the technical outweigh the moral.   Field
efficiency,
backwoodsmanship, camping, hiking, good turns, jamboree comradeship are
all means, not the end.   The end is character with a purpose.   And =
that
purpose,
that the next generation may be sane in an insane world, and develop the
higher realization of service, active service of love, and duty
to God and neighbor."

Here are a series of Web Pages that reference some
of his works:

B-P's Preface to Scouting for Boys
   http://www.gaelwolf.com/gaelwolf/b-p_pref.htm

The Baden-Powell Library
A Selection of excerpts from the works of
Sir Robert Baden-Powell and works relating to his life and career
         http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-library.htm


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   I understand the BSA does not have liability insurance, is
this
                     true?

The Boy Scouts of America has liability insurance that covers
leaders and organizations to which units are chartered. Accident
and medical coverage are not included but are available through BSA
local councils at a modest cost. This coverage provides protection
for the council, all Scouting professionals and employees, Scouting
units,
chartered organizations, and volunteer Scouters (whether or not
registered)
with respect to claims arising in the performance of their duties in
Scouting.
Coverage is more than $15,000,000 for bodily injury and property damage.
The insurance provided Scouting volunteers through the BSA General
Liability
Insurance program is excess over any other insurance the
volunteer might have to his or her benefit, usually a homeowners,
personal
liability, or auto liability policy. There is no coverage for those who
commit intentional or criminal acts.   By providing insurance coverage =
to
volunteers on an excess basis, BSA is able to purchase higher limits.
Because of the high limits, volunteers should NOT
be placed in a position where their assets are jeopardized because of a
negligence liability claim or lawsuit. Chartered Organizations are
covered
by a primary umbrella policy.

Contact your local Council for more information.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Who sets policy in the BSA?
Date: 16 August 1998

Q.   Who sets policy in the BSA?

A.   The BSA owns two organizations: Learning for Life/Exploring and =
the
BSA
traditional Scouting programs.   Learning for Life/Exploring holds
all of the vocational training programs within the BSA effective
August 1, 1998 (e.g., Law Explorer Posts) as well as its program
for school aged youth.   The following is a description of the BSA
traditional Scouting organization.

Taken heavily from a letter by settummanque, or blackeagle
([e-mail])
There are three groups that actually *make* BSA policy at the national
level. These groups are the various national-level committees, the
National
Executive Board, and in the case of Exploring and the Order of the
Arrow,
the Council of Chiefs and the National Exploring Cabinet, which I'll
lump
together as "youth boards".

There's another group, the National Council, that "radifies" the actions
of
the Board.

The BSA has 31 standing and 14 ad-hoc National Committees. Each of those
committees are chaired by and staffed by volunteers from all over the
nation.   Many of these volunteers serve as Council and/or
unit-level volunteers in addition to their national service.

Committee members serve typically for a one-year period and are selected
by
national professional staff advisors and/or volunteer committee chairs.
This includes those serving on one of the ad-hoc or task force
committees
formed to address specific issues within the BSA.

Each Committee also has one to two National staff advisors, whose jobs
are
twofold: one, to serve as the professional day-to-day manager of that
committee and the other, to monitor and "corral-in" those committees
that
somehow stray from what "will fly in Peoria", program speaking. Each
National staff advisor has been carefully selected by senior national
staff
members, attend regular "sharing and discovery" meetings during the
week,
and therefore know more about what's going on within the various
committees
outside his or her as well as his own.....

Depending on the personality of the National staffer, the committee runs
really smoothly, or roughly, or not at all. This creates problems
whereby
some committees will have loads of programming and support
recommendations
and policies, and others are not productive at all.

National staffers are "graded" on their ability to "keep the group
together
and focused" as well as "practical outcomes which will enhance the
programs
of the BSA".

Some policies are immediately put into practice throughout the BSA from
the
Committee (and it is the professional that "lobbies" on behalf of the
committee to get it approved by the Program, Administration, Finance,
Council
Support or Membership/Relationships Group Director whom has the final
responsibility for sending those changes and improvements to "the
field").
Those are the ones that come directly to your Council from the Director
of
the various programs or from the appropriate Group Director.

Other policies require changes to the BSA's Rules and Regulations or to
the
Charter and Bylaws, which is the reason why they have to go before the
BSA's
National Executive Board. The NEB is composed of between 48 and 52 adult
members and three to five youth members. This board meets every other
month
to discuss and finalize recommendations made by the various Group
Directors,
their volunteer Committees, or by individual Board members or the Chief
Scout Executive. There are seven professionals whom are members of this
board: the Chief Scout Executive, the four Regional Directors (whom also
serve as Associate Chief Scout Executives), the National Director of
Operations and the National Director of Support Services. These
professionals do NOT have a vote but they are, as you can guess, very
influential in the decision-making ability of this body. The rest of the
Board is composed of volunteers whom are key business, industry, civic
and
religious leaders from all parts of the nation and all walks of life. To
keep a youth slant on the actions, the National Chief of the Order of
the
Arrow, the National Explorer President, and up to three other youth
leaders
(selected by their peers or through a national competition of some sort)
are
voting members of the NEB.

The Chief Scout Executive serves as the "secretary" to the Board and his
or
her performance is tied to overall program success. The National
Executive
Board "hires" and "fires" the CSE and all other national-level senior
professionals.

Youth boards also make a significant impact on the adoption of national
policies and procedures. The Assembly of Chiefs, the section and
regional
chiefs along with the National Chief and National Vice-Chief of the
Order of
the Arrow (assisted by two professionals and six adult volunteers) make
policy and recommendations for the Order of the Arrow, Scouting's
national
honor camping society.

Finally, the National Council of the Boy Scouts of America serves as the
final "stamp of approval" on all significant changes to the program of
the
BSA. The National Council is composed of at least three representatives
from
each of the BSA's local Councils: The Council President, Council
Commissioner, and one other elected representative.
The Council Executive is not a member.
Two or more (depending on size of the local Council)
volunteers are elected yearly to serve as National Council
Representatives,
a job that nowadays carries more weight than it used to.
The National Council meets as a whole body once a year.

As you can probably figure out by all of this, whatever the National
Exec
Board approves, more than likely will be approved by the National
Council
after it has already been implemented in their local Councils. This is
also
the reason why when new programs are announced, SOME local Councils
delay implementing it until a national vote is taken on the program
change
or
other issue.

Those are the bodies that make up the decision-making ability of the
BSA.
While we're talking about professional management of various committees
and
boards, we're also talking about volunteers --you and me-- making up
those
boards and committees, with a larger say than the professionals and
reflecting our Council's make-ups and population.

Settummanque!


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   Where can I find information on how the BSA is organized?
Date: 28 May 1997

Q. Where can I find information on how the BSA is organized, who
makes the decisions, that sort of thing?

A. There are two entities to the BSA:   The BSA traditional Scouting
organization and the wholly owned subsidiary: Learning for
Life/Exploring.
The BSA has a number of publications that contain its organization.
     All are available to the general public from your nearby Scout =
Shop.
     or by mail see: Where can I get official BSA literature & =
catalog?
(in
       the rec.scouting.usa FAQ)
     Check:   The Cub Scout Leader Book and The Troop Committee =
Guidebook

     An on-line official description is available for the traditional
       Scouting organization at:
           http://www.bsa.Scouting.org/comm/scoutorg.htm
     An on-line official description of the Learning for =
Life/Exploring is
at:
           http://www.learning-for-life.org
     More on-line information may be found at:
           http://www.usscouts.org/gold/bsaorg.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   I thought the BSA was a camping club, what are the Aims and
Mission of
the BSA?
Date: 11 Jan 1998

Q.   I thought the BSA was a camping club, what are the Aims and
Mission of the BSA?

A. There are two entities to the BSA:   The BSA traditional Scouting
organization and the wholly owned subsidiary: Learning for
Life/Exploring.

There are three aims to Boy Scouts of America (BSA) Scouting:

               Aim I -- To build moral strength and character
               Aim II -- To foster citizenship
               Aim III -- To develop fitness

These three aims are the bedrock of the American Scouting movement. They
represent the long term outcomes we want for every boy.

It is the mission of the Boy Scouts of America to serve others by
helping to instill values in young people and in other ways prepare
them to make ethical choices over their lifetime in achieving their
full potential.   (BSA Mission Statement)

It is the mission of Learning for Life/Exploring to serve others by
helping
to
instill core values in young people and in other ways prepare them to
make
ethical choices throughout their lives so they can achieve their full
potential.

"Values are those things that really matter to each of us ... the ideas
and beliefs we hold as special. Caring for others, for example, is a
value; so is the freedom to express our opinions."
("Ethics in Action", BSA 1990)

"Ethics deals with what we believe to be good or bad and with the moral
obligations that these beliefs imply. Ethics involves the rules for
deciding right and wrong and the code of conduct that is based on our
decisions. While there are some things that not everybody sees
eye-to-eye with in this area, there are a whole lot more that we do
agree about. For example, to steal is wrong, for most of us. So too is
physical assault. Most of us don't think it is right to cheat in
school; many of us think it is injustice to punish someone who didn't
do anything wrong. As an idea, ethics is simple, but the consequences
are profound!"
("Developing Ethical Leaders Through Action", 1990)

The BSA strives to help enrich the lives of young people and make a
difference in the kind of people they become. Since 1910, it has
been the mission of the BSA to serve others by helping to install values
in young people, to prepare them to make ethical choices over their
lifetime and achieve their full potential.

Some more references:
Maintaining BSA Standards
"The Scout Oath and Law are not up for negotiation.
Our values are not for sale."
Text of this article from Scouting magazine, September 1992.
can be found at:
http://www.main.org/boyscout/bsastand.htm

The Meaning of the Boy Scout Oath
Excerpted: page 550-551, "The Boy Scout Handbook",
can be found at:
http://www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsoath.html

Some resources for instilling values in young people
can be found at:
http://www.main.org/boyscout/bsaethic.htm
http://www.learning-for-life.org/resources.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   Is the BSA a public or private institution?
Date: 4 July 2000

A. There are two entities to the BSA:   The BSA traditional Scouting
organization and the wholly owned subsidiary: Learning for
Life/Exploring.

   A BSA Scouting unit (Pack, Troop, Post, etc.) is wholly
   owned and operated by its chartering
   organization.   It is an extension of the chartering
   organization's youth program, and must comply with
   any policies or laws the chartering organization must
   comply with.

   BSA Councils are autonomous,
   private, non-profit organizations incorporated within the
   State they are headquartered.   National BSA and
   GSUSA are private corporations established
   under Federal law (see US Code 36 Section 1101).

   The United States Supreme Court ruled in June 2000 that
   "The Boy Scouts is a private, not-for-profit organization engaged
   in instilling its system of values in young people."
   BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA AND MONMOUTH COUNCIL, et al., PETITIONERS v.
JAMES
DALE

   For more information, see the question on how the
   BSA is organized and the question 'Is the BSA, or their
   affiliates a place of public accommodation or a business
   establishment?'


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   What is the BSA position on homosexuality?
Date: 8 Feb 2002

Q.   What is the BSA position on homosexuality?

A.   It should be kept in mind that even though different people
will relate the meaning of the BSA policy in different ways, it is
important to stress that in Scouting, small groups of parents and
community organizations across the country (chartering organizations),
with a diversity of ideologies, will continue to choose leaders and in
other ways deliver the Scouting program. As a community organization,
we trust their judgment and hold all volunteers accountable to the
highest standards of behavior.   For the the relationship
of community organizations and the BSA see:
   http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html

   "We are an organization that is simply about helping young people =
grow
   into caring, concerned, and responsible citizens. The issue
   of gay rights is larger than Scouting and is being debated =
throughout
   our society with no immediate end in sight. We must keep our focus
   on today's young people and not let socio-political debate
   distract the community from serving children through Scouting."
         - From a Statment by Indianhead Council, MN
         http://www.indianhead.org/News/Leadership_2_6_02.htm

Current BSA Position Statements are here
http://www.scouting.org/excomm/60minutes/index.html
http://www.scouting.org/press/020206/resolution.html
http://www.scouting.org/excomm/positions/index.html


Fiction vs. Fact - A quick reference developed to assist in
dispelling commonly found inaccuracies regarding Scouting and the U.S.
Supreme
Court decision.
http://www.scouting.org/excomm/values/fact.html

Press Releases
February 2002
         BSA Board Affirms Traditional Leadership Standards
         http://www.scouting.org/press/020206/index.html

June 28, 2000
         Boy Scouts of America Sustained by United States Supreme =
Court
         http://www.scouting.org/press/000628/index.html

In Support of Values
         This message is provided to share some viewpoints about =
recent
media
         coverage and to communicate the standards and values of the =
Boy
Scouts
of
         America.
           http://www.scouting.org/excomm/60minutes/index.html

A collection of resources from the BSA that communicate the values of
Scouting - including letters, articles,
speeches, quick references, and a bimonthly newsletter.
http://www.scouting.org/excomm/values/index.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   Has the BSA ever asked their membership if they want the
Leadership policies?

See the
BSA publication: 'In Support of Values Research Edition' No.
02-593-1(01)
It is online at:
http://www.scouting.org/excomm/values/newsletter/0102/index.html



---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   What is the position of the people who say that it is
   OK to have gay members in the Boy Scouts of America?

A:   The following was compiled by a number of people who have
taken the position that it is OK to have gay members in the
Boy Scouts of America in this group.   It is not ment
to represent everyone who does not agree with the BSA policy.

Question:   Doesn't the Bible prohibit homosexuality?

Answer:
No.   Read literally, the Bible says nothing
about homosexual orientation, only about
sex acts between men.   And even there, it only
prohibits certain kinds of sex acts, and only
to Jews.

The relevant passage is Leviticus 18:22 --
"Ve'et zachar lo tishkav mishkevey ishah to'evah hi."
(And-(accusative-particle)
             male don't lay like-you-lay woman "to'evah" that)

The word "to'evah" is the same word as in Deut 22:5,
which prohibits women from wearing pants:
"...ki *toavat* Adonay Eloheycha..."
(it's an abomination to the Lord your God)

The rabbis interpret this as a prohibition
of male-to-male anal intercourse,
which they considered to be the only form of
"laying a woman" that could be done to a man.

Now there are other rabbinical strictures that
evolved later, but the Biblical passage refers only
to males, only to Jews, and only to anal sex.

How do we know this is just to the Jews?
Because Leviticus 18, like many other chapters,
begins with boilerplate language that says just that:
"Vayedaber Adonay el-Moshe lemor
Daber el-beney Yisra'el ve'amarta alehem ..."
(God spoke to Moses, telling him to
Speak to the *Israelites*, and say to *them*:)

But aren't these universal sexual morality for everyone?
No.
Three verses earlier is a sexual rule for heterosexuals
that very few non-Jews obey:
"Ve'el-ishah benidat tum'atah lo tikrav legalot ervatah"
"And do not approach a woman who is taboo from
her period; this is a sexual offense".
(The taboo is described in Leviticus 15:25ff and covers the
time of her menstruation and seven clean days thereafter.)

It's hard to see the logic that says that Leviticus 18:22
should apply to everyone, but Leviticus 18:19 shouldn't!

Now of course, particular religious denominations have both
added restrictions and leniencies to these rules.
For instance, most Orthodox rabbis rule that the
prohibition of homosexual sex extends to B'nei Noach (everybody).
But aside from the fact that there's no reason
for the BSA to favor Biblical religions over others,
there's certainly no reason to favor the extra
restrictions of some denominations or to mock
or disparage the leniencies of others!

Question:   Wasn't it unnecessary for the Scouts to
have a policy against homosexuality in the past, since
it was against the law, and there was a presumption
that scouts and leaders should be law-abiding?

Answer:   No.   Once again, the ambiguous use of the
term "homosexuality" to refer both to orientation
and to particular sexual acts creates this confusion.
The law did not forbid homosexuality, but,
like the Bible, only particular sex acts.   And
most such laws forbade oral and anal sex between
opposite-sex partners as well as same-sex partners.

Question:   But doesn't allowing homosexuals to lead scout
troops set a bad example?   Why wouldn't they teach by
their mere presence that homosexual sex is condoned?

Answer:   There are two answers.   First of all,
Boy Scouts hire leaders who do all kinds of things,
and provided they don't do them in front of scouts,
it's not treated as any kind of endorsement.   This
would include gamblers, drinkers, smokers, divorced
people, and so forth.   They are allowed to have
their private vices, and even to avow them (e.g.
let it be known publically outside of scouting that
they are smokers) so long as they don't model them
for the boys (e.g. smoking at an event).
The fact that this argument is used only for homosexuals
smacks of a double standard.

Secondly, let us return to the distinction between
orientation and sexual behavior.   Even if the
troop acknowledges that the sexual behavior is
wrong (which we have seen in another discussion
is not universally held, only in some religions),
we are forbidden to presume that a person of
homosexual orientation is actually engaging in
improper sexual activity.   A fortiori, we are forbidden
to presume that he is recommending it to the boys.
This is both wrong and hypocritical.   After all,
most unmarried heterosexual men engage in improper
sexual activity, and most boys in scouting know or
suspect this.   Does this mean that we should have a rule
banning unmarried men from serving as scout leaders because
their presence teaches that premarital sex is proper?
Once again, we have a double standard, and also a violation
of the basic principle of not stereotyping one's fellow.
In fact, this principle *is* not only an American
principle, but it is also in the Scout Law and in the Bible.

Where in the Scout Law?
From A Scout is Friendly, Lowell writes:
"... No matter how strange, or how barbarous,
or how absurd the conduct of another person may appear,
it is the duty of every broad-minded man to put himself in that
other's place sufficiently to understand with his own
imagination what the other's actions mean from that other's
point of view. This breadth of mind is necessary if we
want to form true judgements and to be just in interpreting
the acts of other people, and it is part of the
intelligence of which we have just been speaking as necessary
'to help other people at all times.'"

Where in the Bible?
Right in the center
of Torah.   The Book of Leviticus, chapter 19
verse 15 ends with "b'tsedek tishpot amitecha",
which means "in righteousness judge your people".
This verse is interpreted by the rabbis to mean
that you should give people the benefit of the
doubt.   It is the foundation of the modern presumption
of innocence.   Here is a summary
of the teachings of the Chofetz Chaim (famous
commentator on the laws of improper speech, among
other things) on that principle:

"If one sees a person what said or did something,
whether something Bein Adam L'Makom (between man and G-d)
or Bein Adam L'chaveiro (between man and
fellow man), and it's possible to judge the speech
or action favorably and give the
benefit of the doubt, if the person is a 'yirei Elokim'
(sincerely G-d fearing
individual), we are obligated to judge him favorably
even if the action in question is
more logically interpreted negatively.

"If the person is a 'beinoni' (average person) in that
he is generally careful to avoid
sin yet on occasion falters, and the doubt could be
equally interpreted favorably or
unfavorably, one is obligated to follow the favorable judgement.
This fulfills what our Sages say, that one who
jugdes his fellow favorably will receive favorable
judgement from G-d; he also upholds the commandment
(Lev. 19:15), 'Judge your fellow people righteously.'
Even if the speech or action seems more likely to have
a negative judgement as its interpretation, it is proper
that the matter should be considered a doubt,
and not as a definitive, negative evaluation."

This principle applies a fortiori to the case where
one doesn't see a person say or do anything, but
merely learns that he is in some category of people.


---------------------------------------------------------------------Date:
Jan 31, 2001
Subject: Where does it say that the BSA feels that sex belongs in
marriage?

The Boy Scout Handbook deals with sex and marriage on pages 376 and 377
of
the current
edition.   eleventh edition, 1998 printing.   The message is very =
clear.
Sex
belongs within marriage.

Also, see the Family Life Merit
Badge booklet, specifically pages 32-33.     View the
Youth Protection video for Venturers.


---------------------------------------------------------------------Date:
Jan 31, 2001
Subject: I thought the BSA did not teach about sex, why should it
   make any difference if the Scoutmaster lives a lifestyle
   that some do not consider sexually moral?

The Scoutmaster Handbook states:
Page 132, Chpter 11: "Scoutmasters should keep in mind that boys should
learn
about sex from their parents, guardians, or others empowered by their
families to guide them. No Scoutmaster should undertake to teach Scouts,
in any formalized manner, about sexual behavior. If a Scout comes to you
with questions of a sexual nature, answer them as honestly as you can,
and
whereever appropriate, encourage him to share his concerns with his
parents or guardian, spiritual leader, or a medical expert."

This says to answer any questions of this type as "honesty as you can"
and then, wherever appropriate, encourage the Scout to share his
concerns with a parent or other appropriate person.

In the Boy Scout Handbook at the bottom of page of 377 the Scout is
encouraged to
talk to Scout leaders (among others) on questions about growing up,
about
relationships or about sex.



---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   What is the BSA position on girls in Scouting?
Date: 16 Sept 1998

Q.   What is the BSA position on girls in Scouting?

A.   The BSA is a coed organization with some single gender programs
   and some mixed gender programs.   Coed programs include: Learning
   for Life (all school aged youth), Exploring (14-20),
   Sea Scouting (14-20), and Venture Scouting (14-20).
   Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Varsity are for young men.
   Adult Leadership positions in all programs are open to both
   genders.

   From a BSA Position Statement issued 6/6/91:

   The Boy Scouts of America is chartered by Congress "...to promote...
   the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to
   train them in Scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage,
   self-reliance, and kindred virtues..."   The Girl Scouts, U.S.A.,
   operates under a similar Congressional charter for the benefit of
   girls.

   The Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs were designed to meet the
   emotional, psychological, physical and other needs of boys
   between the ages of 8 and 14.   Boys in this age range
   seek out and enjoy group activities with other boys.
   The Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs were carefully developed
   with these considerations in mind.

   The Exploring program, however, is designed to provide a
   variety of programs for both boys and girls between
   the ages of 14 and 21.   Approximately 40% of the nation's
   more than one million Explorers are female.

   There are no plans to restructure Cub Scouting and
   Boy Scouting to allow for the registration of girls.

   JSsd
   6/6/91

Doyle, Kevin
Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:38:12 -1000

xxx was able to recall enough of the discussion where he heard about
the possibility of a BSA task force of co-ed Cub Scouting (thanks, xxx)
for me to go back to the source (a Philmont Training Center discussion
group
Q&A) and get the scoop. I spoke with Rick Williamson, director of BSA's
Cub
Scouting division and here's what I learned:

There is no task force or committee currently looking into, or studying,
co-ed Cub Scouting. The National Cub Scout Committee does have, as part
of
its long-range plan, a plan to establish a task force in 2002 to look at
Cub
Scouting and the family to see if we are meeting their needs. This may
involve changing our program to better accommodate family needs. One of
the
recommendations may or may not be that we need to be co-educational to
better meet the needs of the family. There could be a lot of other
changes
or no changes recommended at all. Whether or not that is even an issue
will
be determined by the Family Needs Task Force in the year 2002.

As most of you are aware, the National Cub Scout Committee regularly
uses
task forces to look at all aspects of the Cub Scouting program to see if
Cub Scouting is meeting current needs. These have included task forces
on
uniforming, advancement, CS Trainer wood badge, camping, etc. The task
force on family needs will provide a welcome assessment of how we are
doing
in this area and recommendations for doing better.

Kevin Doyle
Aloha Council


---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
   What is the position of the BSA as related to God and
religion?
Date: 8 Feb 2002

The BSA owns two organizations: Learning for Life/Exploring and the BSA
traditional Scouting programs.   Learning for Life/Exploring holds
all of the vocational training programs within the BSA effective
August 1, 1998 (e.g., Law Explorer Posts) as well as its program
for school aged youth. There are no youth requirements in
Learning for Life/Exploring (LFL) pertaining to God and religion.
Leadership criteria in LFL/Exploring is set by the chartering
organization.
Learning for Life/Exploring participants are
not required to adhere to BSA membership requirements.
For more information on Exploring, see:
http://www.learning-for-life.org/

The following policy is for members of the BSA, that is
the participants of programs within the BSA Scouting organization:
Cubs, Scouts, Sea Scouts, Varsity & Venturing.

A Press Release in Feb of 2002 the BSA Executive Board stated:
“In affirming its existing standards of leadership, the board also=20
agreed
that duty to God is not a mere ideal for those choosing to associate
with
the Boy Scouts of America; it is an obligation, which has defined good
character throughout the BSA's 92-year history.“
   -BSA Board Affirms Traditional Leadership Standards
         http://www.scouting.org/media/press/020206/index.html

Note that the BSA does not define what constitutes belief in God,
but does define what Duty to God is.

From the Bedrock of Scouting Values Speech
"The bedrock of Scouting's values is literally and figuratively ... duty
to
God
.... "On my honor, I will do my duty to God and my
country ..." To Scouting, the question is NOT: Can a person be honorable
without a belief in God? Rather, our commitment is that no
child can develop to his/her fullest potential without a spiritual
element.
The Boy Scouts of America is not a religion ... it is an
organization with strong religious tenets. It is a movement that is
committed to developing the entire child ... spirituality is very
important in that total development. That is why we hold to duty to God.
Whether it is the Judeo-Christian ethic; or a Buddhist,
Protestant, Mormon, Catholic, or Native American ethic; or that of any
of
the other great religions of our world, the Boy Scouts of
America is committed to the proposition that no child can develop to
his/her fullest potential without a spiritual element in his/her
life.
       In looking ahead to their adult years, Scouting is in accord =
with
the teachings of the world's great religions and is committed to
the concept that sexual intimacy is the providence of a man and a woman
within the bonds of marriage.
       Also, consistent with the world's great religions, the Boy =
Scouts of
America is committed to respecting the dignity of individuals
or values with which we disagree. In four places in the Scout Oath and
Law
....
when you read the descriptive terms ... you will find
comments related to respect. But, respect doesn't mean abdication of
one's
values. Nor does it mean the forced inclusion of others'
values in your life. What it does mean is the recognition of the right
of
people to have opinions, values, and lifestyles other than
yours and for all to be tolerant of each other's differences. When the
Boy
Scouts won the United States Supreme Court case, you didn't
see us "celebrating in the street." The issue was not to vanquish a
young
man
who is an inappropriate leader within Scouting. The
issue was the maintenance of our constitutional right and our commitment
to providing those faith-based values to our
constituency in a respectful manner.
       Scouting has never sought to impose its values on anyone. We =
welcome
all who share them, and we respect the right of others
to walk a different path. We don't expect everybody to agree with our
standards and values ... but we do think it's fair to expect
others to respect them."
http://www.scouting.org/excomm/values/bedrock.html


From the BSA National Executive Board, June 12, 1991:

Reaffirmation of the Position of the Boy Scouts of America on Duty to
God.

   Be it resolved that the following reaffirmation of the position of =
the
   Boy Scouts of America relating to the duty to God be, and hereby is,
   enacted that the bylaws, rules and regulations, and literature of =
the
   Corporation reflect this reaffirmation accordingly.

   In 1985, America celebrated the seventy-fifth anniversary of the Boy
   Scouts of America.   Since 1910, eighty million Americans have
   subscribed to the Scout Oath and the Scout Law, which have stood the
   test of time.

   The National Executive Board of the BSA proudly states, through its
   mission statement, that the values which the organization strives to
   instill in young people are those based upon the Scout Oath and
   the Scout Law.   A Scout pledges: "On my honor I will do my
   best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout
   Law...."

   The first Boy Scouts of America *Handbook for Boys*, published
   in August 1911, declares that "..no boy can grow into the
   best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation
   to God." (page 215)

   The latest edition of the Boy Scout Handbook, published
   in 1990, reads: "A scout is reverent toward God. He
   is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs
   of others." (page 561)

   While not intending to define what constitutes belief in God,
   the Boy Scouts of America is proud to reaffirm the Scout
   Oath and its declaration of duty to God.

   The following statements are additional information
   on the BSA position:

   The Boy Scouts of America has always been committed to
   the moral, ethical, and spiritual development of our youth.
   Scouting is not a religion, but duty to God is a basic tenet
   of the Scout Oath and Law.

   Scouting does not seek to impose its beliefs upon others
   who do not share them.   Virtually every religion is represented
   in Scouting, and the BSA does not define or interpret God.
   That is the role of the Scout's family and religious advisors.

   Scouting respects those who do not share its beliefs and it would
   not ask others to alter their faith in any fashion in order to
   become Scouts.   They too are free to follow their own beliefs.
   Rather, the BSA membership believes that the principles set forth
   in the Scout Oath and Law are central to the BSA goal of teaching
   the values of self-reliance, courage, integrity, and
   consideration to others.   Scouting may not be for everyone, but
   for eight decades, Scouting has provided meaningful programs
   and adventure to more than eighty million young people
   in the United States.

[end of letter]

For more information on BSA organization's leadership requirements see:
The Cub Scout Leader Book and The Troop Committee Guidebook

The BSA organization teaches Scouts that the First Amendment religious
liberty
principles are our national "ground rules" for living with our
deepest differences. Scouts are taught the "3Rs" of religious liberty
-- rights, responsibilities, and respect.   What it means to recognize
that everyone has the inalienable right of religious liberty. Why is it
important that citizens take responsibility for guarding that right for
all others, even those with whom they disagree. And how we can
learn to debate our differences with civility and respect.

The BSA organization is a member of the World Organization of the
Scouting
Movement (WOSM).   The BSA holds to the fundamental principles
of the movement.   Duty to God is a Fundamental Principle of the
WOSM (see below for more on the WOSM).   The WOSM has testified at =
court
cases in the United States in support of the BSA (see Walsh vs. BSA).

The Learning for Life/Exploring subsidiary does not have any restriction
in
this
area for youth, or adult leaders.   Leadership criteria in =
LFL/Exploring
is set by the chartering organization.   Youth are considered
participants
and not members.

A history of the BSA on this point can be found at:
http://www.umcscouting.org/reverant/HISTORICAL_PERSPECTIVE_REVERENCE.htm

Recent press releases from the BSA on this subject can be found here:
http://www.scouting.org


There are a number of organizations who take issue with the
BSA policy.   Some information on their positions can be
found at:
http://www.infidels.org/~nap/index.bsa.html

There are a number of organizations who agree with the
BSA policy.   Some information on their positions can be
found at:

The Claremont Institute
http://www.claremont.org/1_naturallaw.cfm

The War on the Boy Scouts
http://www.capitalresearch.org:80/trends/ot-1298.html

Concerned Women for America
http://www.cwfa.org:80/

National Review
http://www.nationalreview.com:80

---------------------------------------------------------------------Subject:
What is the Declaration of Religious Principles (DRP)?
Date: 31 Oct 2002

The BSA owns two organizations: Learning for Life/Exploring and the
traditional
BSA Scouting programs.   The following policy pertains only to leaders
in the BSA Scouting programs (not Learning for Life/Exploring), that is
the leaders within the BSA Scouting organization:
Cubs, Scouts, Sea Scouts, Varsity & Venturing.

The Declaration of Religious Principles (DRP) is a term used
to describe the BSA policies and definitions surrounding
religion.   It is a definite position on religious principles.

The DRP was first published in the original Boy Scout
Handbook in 1911 and written by John Alexander (see
the chapter on Chivalry).

The following excerpt of the DRP is taken from the Adult
Application:

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow
into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation
to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element
in the training of the member, but is absolutely
nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training.
The Boy Scouts of America's policy is that home and the
organization or group with which the member is connected
shall give definite attention to religious life.
Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration
of Religious Principles and to the Bylaws of the Boy
Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of
leadership.

When an adult leader signs the adult leader application
they declare that they subscribe to the DRP.   The DRP is printed
prominently on the top of the instruction page in the adult leader
application and is also on the youth applications.
The full DRP can be found in the
BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures Committee Guide and the
Cub Scout Leader Book.   The DRP
section of the bylaws date back to the founding days of the BSA
and was printed in the 1911 Boy Scout Handbook.


Youth members of the organization are not asked to
understand or subscribe to the DRP.   Parents are advised on the
Youth application that the leadership is restricted to qualified
adults who subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle,
the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.   The BSA recognizes the
importance of religious faith and duty: it leaves religious
instruction to the member's religious leaders and
family.   Members who do not belong to a unit's religious
chartered organization shall not be required to participate
in its religious activities.

Note the following while reading the DRP:

The DRP does not require nor forbid a belief in a Supreme Being.

The DRP does not talk about being a 1st class or 2nd class
citizen, it talks about the quality of citizenship a member can obtain.

The BSA does not define what constitutes belief in God or the
   practice of religion.*
The BSA does not require membership in a religious organization
   or association for enrollment in the movement but does prefer,
   and strongly encourages, membership and participation in the
   religious programs and activities of a church, synagogue, or
   other religious association.*
The BSA respects the convictions of those who exercise their
   constitutional freedom to practice religion as individuals
   without formal membership in organized religious organizations.
   Scouting believes in the right of all to worship God in their own
way.*
Throughout life Scouts are associated with people of different
   faiths.   Scouts believe in religious freedom, respecting others
   whose religion may differ from theirs.*
   (* indicates this is taken from further notes on the DRP in
           the BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures Committee =
Guide)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: I hear the US Government gives away valuable land and material
to the BSA, is this true?
Date: 12 Feb 2002

Q.   I hear the US Government gives away valuable land
       and material to the BSA, is this true?

A.   As of this date, BSA receives no Government grants.

Some federal agencies may allow the use of, donate,
       or sell different assets to nonprofit organizations:

Federal land used by BSA for camps:
   Some Federal agencies may allow nonprofit organizations
   to use public land for camps
   as long as such nonprofit organizations are willing to
   perform services, as directed by the agency that will
   yield a valuable benefit to the public.
     (ref: 16 USC Sec. 539f)
Gift or Sale of obsolete or excess material:
   Certain agencies may give or sell obsolete or excess
   material to and to any public body or private
   nonprofit organization. Sales under these sections shall
   be at   fair value to the agency, including packing,
   handling, and transportation. (ref: 14 USC Sec. 641)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Can a BSA Scout participate in a Political Event
Date: 8/4/00

The question of Scouts at a political event comes up every time there
are
campaigns.   My understanding is that the policy is that it is OK for
Scouts=20
to perform
patriotic duties (like a flag ceremony) at a political campaign, but
they=20
cannot be
seen endorsing a candidate or handing out political fliers.

Scouts are often seen with candidates of all political parties
performing
flag ceremonies.
They should not be seen cheering on the candidate.

The policy is:
Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Art. IX, =A72, cl. 2
and
6:

clause 2.

"The officers and leaders of the Boy Scouts of America shall, when
praciticable, cooperate in connection with civic or other public
gatherings
of a nonpartisan and nonpolitical character which gives Cub Scouts, Boy
Scouts and Explorers [Ventures] an opportunity to render service in
harmony
with their training instead of merely taking part in parades or making a
show of themselves in their uniforms."

clause 6.

" The Boy Scouts of America shall not, through its governing body or
through
any of its officers, its chartered Councils, or members, involve the
Scouting movement in any question of a political character.   However,
this
shall not be interpreted to prevent the teaching of patrotism and good
citizenship as required to fulfill the Corporation's purpose.   This
policy
shall also not limit the freedom of thought or action of any official or
member as an individual."

Cub Scout Leader's Manual:
Chapter 7:   Uniform Rules and Regulations
   "The uniform may not be worn by either Cub Scouts or adult
leaders when: Involved in any distinctly political endeavor."

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Does the BSA prevent Unitarian Universalists from becoming
Scouts?
Date: 21 May 1999

There are no specific restrictions on Unitarian Universalists becoming
Scouts in the BSA.   Unitarian congregations can still sponsor
units if they feel their aims and purposes are compatible with ours, and
Unitarian boys are welcome to join troops.

There is a controversy surrounding the wearing of the UUA religious
emblem
with the BSA uniform.   Although it has been reported by the UUA and =
BSA
representatives that this controversy had been resolved there seems to
be
a disagreement about the terms of the resolution.   The UUA feels that
both
sides agreed to removing the offending material from the handbook and
including
a separate set documents with different wording.   A letter was sent to
the
UUA
from the BSA Religious Relationship   Committee (and published by the =
UUA
at
their web site) as follows:"

May 7, 1999
Dear Dr. Buehrens:

It has come to our attention that you have posted on the UUA web site a
letter of
April 28, 1999, in which you state that the UUA has revised its
"Religion in
Life" manual to the satisfaction of the Boy Scouts of America,
referring to a letter of April 23 from Thomas Deimler of the BSA.

Your letter goes on to say the following: "The new edition of Religion
in
Life
will be available from the UUA Bookstore this summer. Along with each
copy ,
the Association will separately provide a letter from me, along
with resources appropriate to dealing with issues of homophobia and
religious discrimination." Unfortunately, this
simply reopens the entire issue of using boys as a venue to air your
differences with the policies of the Boy Scouts of America.

These circumstances were not contemplated when Mr. Deimler wrote his
letter.
Therefore, Boy Scouts of America is not in a position to authorize the
awarding of the Religion in Life emblem to Scouts and the wearing of
that emblem on a Scout uniform.

Sincerely yours,
Lawrence Ray Smith, Chairman
Religious Relationships Committee


The 1999 General Assembly of the Unitarian Universalist Association
adopted a resolution encouraging UUs to join Scouting, supporting
UUs who remain in Scouting, and supporting UU churches which sponsor
Scout units.   See http://www.uua.org/ga/ga99/aiws.html#aiw4   The
resolution
also calls on Unitarian Universalists to work for changes in BSA
policies.

More information and the UUA response may be found at:
http://www.uua.org

The BSA web site is: http://bsa.scouting.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   Is the GSUSA part of the WOSM?
Date: 27 April 1996

Q. Is the GSUSA part of the WOSM?

A. No, the GSUSA is part of the World Association of Girl Guides and
     Girl Scouts (WAGGGS)

             For more information, see:
                       The WAGGGS Web page at:   =
http://www.wagggs.org
                       The GSUSA Web page at:   =
http://www.girlscouts.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is the purpose of GSUSA Girl Scouting?

The purpose of girl Scouting is to inspire girls with the
highest ideals of character, conduct, patriotism, and service
that they may become happy and resourceful citizens.
From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What are the requirements for membership in GSUSA Girl
Scouting?

Girl Scouting is open to girls between the ages of 5 and 17, and
to men and women over the ae of 18, who make the Girl Scout Promise,
accept the Girl Scout Law, and pay annual membership dues.
These are the only requirements for membership.

From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is GSUSA's position on men in Girl Scouting?

The Girl Scout organization does not discriminate.   Every
volunteer and staff position in Girl Scouting is open to men as well as
women.
Because we believe that female role models are especially
important to young girls during their developing years, men
working directly with girls are asked to serve as part of a
leadership team that includes women.

From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is GSUSA's position on Boys in GSUSA Girl Scouting?

Girl Scouting exists only to serve girls.   Our eighty years of
experience show that girls have unique needs and interests that
are best met in a program designed especially for them, delivered
in an all-girl setting.   A great deal of research supports this
conviction.

We recognize that boys have unique needs and interests a well,
which are addressed by organizations designed to meet their
specific needs.   It should be noted that Boy Scouts of
America is a totally separate organization from Girl Scoiuts of
the U.S.A.


From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is GSUSA's position on lesbians in Girl Scouting?

The Girl Scout organization does not discriminate, but we do not
endorse any particular lifestyle and do not recruit lesbians as
a group.   We do not permit sexual displays of any sort by our
members.
We do not permit theadvocacy or promotion of a personal lifestyle
or sexual orientation.   These are private matters for girls and
their families to address.   Girl Scout volunteers and staff must at =
all
times serve as appropriate role models for girls.

From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is the position of the GSUSA as related to God and
religion?
Date: 27 April 1996

Q.   What is the position of the GSUSA as related to God and religion?

A.   Adopted at the GSUSA National Conference, 20-25 October, 1993:

       "THAT, since the Girl Scout organization makes no attempt to
interpret
       or define the word 'God' but encourages members to establish =
for
       themselves the nature of their spiritual beliefs, it is the =
policy
of
       the Girl Scouts of the U.S.A. that individuals when making the =
Girl
       Scout Promise may substitute wording appropriate to their own
spiritual
       beliefs for the word 'God'."

       Stated explanation for policy change:

       "For some individuals, the word 'God', no matter how broadly
       interpreted, does not appropriately reflect their spiritual =
beliefs.
       Since the belief in a spiritual principle is fundamental to =
Girl
       Scouting, not the word used to define that belief, it is =
important
that
       individuals have the opportunity to express that belief in =
wording
       meaningful to them.

       It is essential to maintain the spiritual foundation of Girl
Scouting,
       yet be inclusive of the full range of spiritual beliefs. This
[policy
       change] does not take the word 'God' out of the Girl Scout =
Promise.
It
       gives those individuals who wish to do so the option to state =
their
       commitment to the spiritual concepts fundamental to the =
Movement
with a
       word or words more appropriate to their own beliefs. For =
instance,
an
       individual may say 'my faith' or 'Allah' or 'the Creator'."

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject;   What is GSUSA's position on atheists in GSUSA Girl Scouting?

                   The Girl Scout organization does not endorse =
or promote any
                   particular philosophy or religious =
belief.   Our movement is
                   nonsectarian, founded on American democratic =
principles,
                   one of which is freedom of religion.   Each =
individual decides
if
                   she or he can meet our membership =
requirements, which
                   include making the Girl Scout Promise.

From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is GSUSA's position on the wording used in the Girl =
Scout
Promise?

The Girl Scout promise is always written as follows:

            On my honor, I will try:
            To serve God and my country,
            To help people at all times,
            And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

The Girl Scouts provide flexibility in speaking the Girl Scout
promise.   An individual member may use the word or words
for "God" that best reflect her own individual spiritual beliefs.
The Girl Scouts believe that freedom of religion is a fundamental
American right.   While we believe the motivating force in
Girl Scouting is a spiritual one, we do not atempt to dictate
the form or style of a member's worship.

In the event that a girl chooses what appeas to be inappropriate
wording for "God", the Girl Scout troop leader, in conjunction
with the girl's family, will help the girl find a substitute word
or words.   Flexibility in the Promise can empower girls to more
closely examine their own spiritual beliefs and motivate them to
discuss these matters with their families.   The way in which a
girl fulfills her beliefs is a matter for her to decide with her
family and is not interpreted or defined by the Girl Scout organization.

From: the GSUSA book "What We Stand For".

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject:   What is GSUSA's position on boys in the organization?

"Girl Scouting exists only to serve girls.   Our more than
eighty years of experience show that girls have unique
needs & interests that are best met in a program designed
especially for them, delivered in an all girl setting."
From:   http://www.girlscouts.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: I heard most United Ways Have Dropped BSA funding, is it true?
Date: 23 Oct 2002

There are a number of lists of United Way agencies that are said to not
support the BSA being circulated around the Internet.   Political
interest groups of either conservative or liberal orientation are using
these lists to communicate a message slanted to their agenda.   Almost all
of these lists are inaccurate.

The United Way is a system of 1,400 separately incorporated, independent
organizations. Each raises money in an annual fund-raising campaign and
allocates funds to local health and human service agencies.   During the
height of the homosexual policy controversy in the United States (1999-2001)
and with a lot of pressure from homosexual political advocacy groups, a
very, very small number of United Ways, about 40 of the 1,040 agencies
(approx. 3 percent), announced that they were removing funding from BSA
traditional Scouting operations.   However, the majority of the BSA's
funding from United Ways already didn't go to the BSA traditional Scouting
operation
but rather to the "other programs" the BSA Councils conduct to fund
at-risk,special needs, handicapped, and in-school programs...most of which
fall
under the Learning for Life umbrella now.   It should not be surprising
then to find that out of the 40 or so United Ways that announced they did
not
support the BSA over half continue to support the BSA Learning for Life
program or have resumed simply donating funds to their local councils to
be used as the local councils see fit. This leaves approximately 1 percent
of the independent United Way agencies not supporting the BSA in any way.
As you can see, we are talking about very small numbers here.

Related sites:
http://national.unitedway.org/aboutuw/boyscouts.cfm
http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=3Dmc&c=3Dps

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:   What is the position of the WOSM as related to God and
religion?
Date: 7 Feb 2000

A. Duty to God is a Fundamental Principle of the World Organization
   of the Scouting Movement (WOSM). When we talk about an Oath or Promise
   must have Duty to God as a requirement for WOSM membership, we must do
   so in context of the WOSM requirement.

   Unless otherwise stated, single quotes indicate quotes from the
   pamphlet Fundamental Principles by WOSM (see below) and double
   quotes indicate quotes from Chapter 1 of the Constitution of
   WOSM.

   'The principles are the fundamental laws and beliefs which must
   be observed when achieving the purpose (of the Scout Movement).
   They represent a code of conduct which characterizes all members
   of the Movement.   Scouting is based upon three broad principles
   which represent its fundamental laws and beliefs.   They are
   referred to as "Duty to God", "Duty to others" and "Duty to self".
   As their names indicate, the first refers to a person's
   relationship with the spiritual values of life; the second, to a
   person's relationship with society in the broadest sense of the
   term; and the third, to a person's obligations towards himself.'

   "Duty to God"
   "...adherence to spiritual principles, loyalty to the religion that
   expresses them and acceptance of the duties resulting
   therefrom."   Note that the body text does not use the
   word God.   In that way, (the WOSM feels) the clause covers religions
   which are non-monotheistic,   such as Hinduism, or those
   which do not recognize a personal God, such as Buddhism.

   'The above-mentioned principles relating to the spiritual, social
   and personal dimensions constitute the fundamental laws and
   beliefs upon which Scouting rests.   Consequently, the program
   of all Scout associations must provide maximum opportunities for
   the growth of young people on the basis of these
   principles....the promises and laws of national associations,
   when first drafted and whenever modified, are subject to the
   approval of the World Organization.'

   The Fundamental Principles of the WOSM

http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/lkmorlan/Fundamental_Principles.html


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: I heard Wiccan's can't be BSA Scouts, is it true?
Date: 31 Oct 2002

There are Wiccans in the BSA and there are Wiccan Scouts.   There is not
a recognized national religious emblem for Wicca.   The reason, according
to BSA spokesman Gregg Shields, to CNSnews.com is:   "religious emblems =
are the property of approved religious scouting organizations and are
awarded at
their own discretion. For example, he said the National Catholic Council
on Scouting and the National Jewish Committee on Scouting each have their
own unique religious emblem."   "There is no national Wiccan organization,"
Shields said. "So, that's why there is no religious award for Wiccans."
"He encouraged any Wiccan group that would like to charter a troop in their
community to submit an application to their local BSA council for
consideration."
Michael L. Betsch, CNSNews.com   Thursday, Oct. 31, 2002
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/10/31/70432.shtml

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Are there any councils that ignore BSA policies?
Date: 14 June 2003
As of this date there are no councils that ignore BSA policies.
All councils must agree each year to follow and enforce BSA policies
when they renew their contracts with the BSA.

------------------------------

End of rec.scouting.issues FAQ
**************************

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