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- From: elise@mango.gofast.net (Elise Matthesen)
- Newsgroups: alt.polyamory,alt.personals.poly,alt.answers,news.answers
- Subject: alt.polyamory Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Supersedes: <polyamory/faq-1-872416083@tigerden.com>
- Followup-To: poster
- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 9:48:02 GMT
- Organization: Mango Wise Use Society and Lioness Den
- Lines: 507
- Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU
- Expires: 14 Oct 1997 12:00 GMT
- Message-ID: <polyamory/faq-1-873798482@tigerden.com>
- Reply-To: elise@mango.gofast.net (Elise Matthesen)
- NNTP-Posting-Host: tiger.tigerden.com
- Summary: Frequently Asked Questions (with Answers) about polyamory,
- the theory and practice of having more than one love.
- Keywords: faq, polyamory, multiple, love, relationship
- X-Note: <infopage@tigerden.com> does automatic posting for the maintainer.
- Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu alt.polyamory:66968 alt.personals.poly:28296 alt.answers:28852 news.answers:111998
-
- Posted-By: auto-faq 3.3 beta (Perl 5.003)
- Archive-name: polyamory/faq
- Posting-Frequency: Posted on the 9th and 24th of each month.
- Please-Note: Comments on the contents should go to <elise@mango.gofast.net>.
- Comments on the header should go to <petercat@lion.lover.org>,
- who is providing automatic posting services for the maintainer.
- Last-Modified: Jun 10, 1997
- Version: 2.3.1a
-
- The Alt.polyamory Faq
-
- Table of Contents:
-
- 1). What's alt.polyamory?
- 2). What's polyamory, then?
- 3). But isn't that "cheating"?
- 4). Primaries, secondaries, vees and triads: polyjargon and polygeometry
- 5). What about jealousy?
- 6). Are there rules for being polyamorous?
- 7). How do you decide who sleeps where when?
- 8). Why do some posts talk about Hot Bi Babes? (and where can I
- get one?)
- 9). Are all polyfolk bisexual?
- 10). Do polyamorous relationships last?
- 11). How can I tell if I am polyamorous?
- 12). What about living together and commitment and marriage and
- all that?
- 13). What will the children think?
- 14). How does a person start (or continue) a poly relationship?
- 15). How do I explain this to people?
- 16). Is there a secret alt.poly handshake?
-
- Administrivia:
-
- BUT FIRST, A WORD ABOUT PERSONAL ADS:
-
- Personal ads should be posted to alt.personals.poly,
- NOT to this newsgroup. This group is for discussion,
- not for shopping. Thank you!
-
-
- Okay, this is version 2.3. I also need to include a list of
- other newsgroups and mailing lists of interest; got one? Juan
- has reformatted this to proper net.style, for which we thank him.
-
- Hope this is useful. Please feel free to send comments directly
- to me and/or post 'em to the newsgroup as you choose.
-
- As always, I apologize for any errors, inadvertent or gratuitous.
-
- Yours in service to truth, beauty, and eleemosynary wordsmithery,
- I remain,
-
- Elise
-
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
- Subject: 1). What's alt.polyamory?
-
- Alt.polyamory is a USENET newsgroup more or less full of people
- interested in talking about polyamory and related topics.
-
- Alt.polyamory was founded by Jennifer Wesp on May 29, 1992.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 2). What's polyamory, then?
-
- (Glad you asked that. ;-) ) Polyamory means "loving more than
- one". This love may be sexual, emotional, spiritual, or any
- combination thereof, according to the desires and agreements of
- the individuals involved, but you needn't wear yourself out
- trying to figure out ways to fit fondness for apple pie, or
- filial piety, or a passion for the Saint Paul Saints baseball
- club into it. "Polyamorous" is also used as a descriptive term by
- people who are open to more than one relationship even if they
- are not currently involved in more than one. (Heck, some are
- involved in less than one.) Some people think the definition is
- a bit loose, but it's got to be fairly roomy to fit the wide
- range of poly arrangements out there.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 3). But isn't that "cheating"?
-
- Nope.
-
- Oh, you wanted a longer answer. Okay. According to the OED,
- cheating means "fraud, deceit, swindling." There's a nice quote
- from 1532: "The first...ground of Chetinge is...a studdy to seme
- to be, and not to be in deede." In other words, cheating is to
- convey through deliberate action the impression that one is of a
- particular nature while one is, in fact, something quite
- different. What this boils down to with polyamory is that
- polyamorous people do not tell partners, lovers, or prospective
- members of those groups that they are monogamous when in fact
- they are not -- nor do they allow these people to assume they are
- monogamous, regardless of how convenient or personally
- advantageous such assumptions might be. The words "honest",
- "negotiate", "communication" and "being out" occur frequently in
- discussions of how polyamory usually works.
-
- As Stef puts it:
-
- "I think the key in defining polyamory is *openness*, that is,
- having multiple relationships with the knowledge and consent of
- your partner(s) rather than by deceit. (How much openness, how
- many details are shared, of course varies widely.) A great many
- people have secret affairs while they're in a supposedly
- monogamous relationship. I think those people might have the
- potential to be polyamorous, but I do not think they are
- practicing polyamory. Another key in defining polyamory, IMO, is
- that it need not involve sex (although it often does)."
-
- Generally speaking, if someone openly practices "more than one
- love" and calls themself polyamorous, they probably are; if they
- practice "more than one love" and call themself monogamous, do
- not adjust your television: the problem is *not* in your
- receiver.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 4). Primaries, secondaries, vees and triads: polyjargon and
- polygeometry
-
- Since there are lots of different ways to organize (or not
- organize, if one is blessed by the Goddess of Chaos, or has a
- taste for happy anarchy, or is a principled egalitarian)
- relationships, it follows that there are ways of describing these
- various arrangements. This polyjargon has evolved in the
- newsgroup over time, and the words are merely descriptives. No
- approval or disapproval of any particular arrangement is to be
- expressed or implied.
-
- Primary - word often used in a hierarchal multi-person
- relationship to denote the person with whom one is most strongly
- bonded. In some cases this bond or commitment takes the form of
- legal marriage. As bigamy is not legal, the option of having two
- (or more) legally wedded primaries simultaneously is not
- currently practicable, though non-legal ceremonies may certainly
- be performed. In some cases "primary" refers to the lover with
- the most seniority.
-
- Secondary - follows from primary, in a hierarchal relationship,
- denotes a person with whom one is involved without the emotional,
- legal, or economic complexities and commitments of primary
- bonding.
-
- Yes, some people talk about tertiaries and so on. Some people
- also don't like the terms primaries and secondaries or the
- concepts behind the terms, preferring to have "a circle of
- equals" as one poly person called it. Stef contributed the term
- "Non-hierarchical Polyamory" for this kind of arrangement.
-
- Triads - three people involved in some way. Often used in a
- fairly committed sense, in some cases involving ceremonies of
- commitment, but also used simply to mean "three people who are
- connected". Example: "Jodine, Mischa and Mickey are a FMM triad
- living in Excelsior."
-
- Vee - Three people, where the structure puts one person at the
- bottom, or "hinge" of the vee, also called the pivot point. In a
- vee, the arm partners are not as commonly close to each other as
- each is to the pivot.
-
- Triangle (or equilateral triangle) - relationship where three
- people are each involved with both of the others. Sometimes also
- called a triad.
-
- Line Marriage - term from the works of Robert A. Heinlein,
- science fiction writer, meaning a marriage that from time to time
- adds younger members, eventually establishing an equilibrium
- population (spouses dying off at the same rate as new ones are
- added). This is a different form of familial immortality than
- the traditional one of successive generations of children.
- (Definition courtesy of M. Schafer, and yes, there are people who
- are in situations like this who use the term to describe their
- family.)
-
- Polyfidelity: Relationship involving more than two people who
- have made a commitment to keep the sexual activity within the
- group and not have outside partners. (Rumor has it that this
- term was coined by the group Kerista.)
-
- Quads, pentacles, sextets and more: There are polyfolk who exist
- in multiple arrangements with more than three members. Geometry
- can get complicated, and creative nomenclature abounds. As in
- every other aspect of polyamory, the precise bonds of intimacy
- vary from group to group and from member to member within groups.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 5). What about jealousy?
-
- Some people seem to have no jealousy; it's as if they didn't get
- that piece installed at the factory. Others, including some
- long-term polyamorists, feel jealousy, which they regard as a
- signal that something needs investigation and care, much as they
- would regard depression or pain. Jealousy is neither a proof of
- love (and this is where polyamory differs from possessive or
- insecure monogamy) nor a moral failing (and this is where
- polyamory differs from emotionally manipulating one's partner(s)
- into relationships for which they are not ready).
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 6). Are there rules for being polyamorous?
-
- Nobody has a trademark on How It's Done, if that's what you mean.
- The best anyone can do is tell how it works for them, and as with
- most other things, YMMV. (That means "Your Mileage May Vary.")
-
- Some people have "rules of thumb".
-
-
- Joe and Kat:
-
- "Your needs come first.
- We'll talk about everything.
- What they said."
-
-
- Elise:
-
- "Since a certain 'learning experience' I have felt strongly
- that I should never allow my relationship with a new person
- to be a tool used to avoid dealing with a 'broken' other
- relationship. In fact, one of the things I am most careful
- about is 'emotional spillover'; I have a policy of not
- spending intense time with otherloves when there is something
- out of balance with one love. Naturally this tends to speed
- up the opening of negotiations about the difficulty. ;-) I
- think it's unfair to my loves to use the time I spend with
- them as a palliative when there's trouble elsewhere; it keeps
- me from doing the work I need to do, the work I agreed to do
- when I took on the reality of the relationship."
-
- If you want rules of thumb, you get to make them up yourself. No
- warranty expressed or implied, and keep checking the instrument
- panel throughout your flight.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 7). How do you decide who sleeps where when?
-
- This is the most often asked question in panel discussions of
- polyamory, making some polyfolk wonder why sex is more
- interesting than the emotional and other intimacies of
- polyamorous life. The answer is that the people involved decide,
- and they decide *how* they decide, too. Some people have
- conferences and divide up the week, some people all pile happily
- into one big bed, and for all I know some people spin a big wheel
- with blinking lights on it each evening....and some people can
- love one another, have no sex, and choose to live in separate
- homes if that is most comfortable for them. The answer usually
- evolves out of discussion, empathy and practice, which makes it a
- lot like good lovemaking.
-
- As jack says:
-
- "The thing to remember is that the sexuality of a relationship is
- not the most important aspect of it. The best thing I can do for
- either of my partners is meet them at the door with a buttered
- biscuit and a smile."
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 8). Why do some posts talk about Hot Bi Babes?
-
- It's a newsgroup joke referring to the occasional post from
- someone, almost always identifying himself as a straight male,
- who is seeking "hot" (i.e. sexually arousing) bisexual female
- partners to save him from the monotonies of the back rack at his
- local video rental shop. The term Hot Bi Babe is almost always
- used sarcastically, occasionally by those of us who really are
- hot bi babes, to lampoon those who regard our sexual preferences
- as a spectator sport. (Our crankiness has more to do with the
- frequency and ineptitude of clueless approaches than it does with
- the acceptability of fantasies or anything like that.)
-
- (and where can I get some?)
-
- Posting personal ads to alt.flame is usually a good strategy;
- alt.dev.null is another good bet. Best of luck, and keep those
- cards and letters.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 9). Are all polyfolk bisexual?
-
- No. There are many polyamorous people who are also bisexual, and
- many who are monosexual (i.e. relating only to one gender as
- potential or actual sexual/romantic partners; straight or
- gay/lesbian). There are also lots of folks who don't do sexual
- preference/orientation labels at all. One doesn't always know
- until one asks, as with so many other things. Avoiding
- assumptions is usually worth the exercise.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 10). Do polyamorous relationships last?
-
- Some do, some don't, just like any other kind of relationships.
- Some folks on the newsgroup have been together for many years;
- some own houses and have children together. Being polyamorous is
- no guarantee that relationships will be easier, though there can
- be advantages to shared joys and shared sorrows, as the old
- saying goes.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 11). How can I tell if I am polyamorous?
-
- I'm not sure; only you will know, and according to the philosophy
- of some folks, people aren't polyamorous, although behavior can
- be. Some people find that approach useful, and others prefer to
- think of "polyamorous people".
-
- Some polyfolk tend to recognize themselves in the descriptions,
- and can only be restrained with difficulty from jumping up and
- down and screeching, "See! See! I *knew* it wasn't just me!
- Hooray!" If you aren't sure you're poly, the best practice is
- probably to act kindly and responsibly, and to communicate
- clearly to the best of your ability as you learn; come to think
- of it, that's the best practice for polyfolk, too, so you'll be
- one of the crowd anyhow. Besides, being polyamorous is not
- inherently "better" than being monogamous, so there's no need to
- feel like you have to pledge allegiance or anything like that
- just to hang out and look at the questions.
-
- Another thing to consider is that the word "polyamorous" is, like
- all labels, just a tool. What you do and how you treat the
- people you love is probably more important to them, in the long
- run, than whether you fit a particular descriptive term, so don't
- sweat it, okay? And take good care of each other.
-
- An alternate point of view:
-
- "There aren't polyamorous and monogamous people; there are
- polyamorous and monogamous relationships. The same person may
- at various times be happy in both monogamous and polyamorous
- relationships at various times in his/her life. What is right
- depends on you and your feelings, and the feelings of those
- you are involved in relationships with. You may at some times
- be involved in a relationship that is monogamous, and that
- may be the right thing for the people in that relationship;
- at other times, you may be in a relationship which works
- better as part of a polyamorous network of relationships. In
- any case, the important thing is probably to act kindly and
- responsibly, and to communicate clearly with intimate
- partners and potential partners about these issues. Don't
- deny your feelings or the feelings of those that you care
- about. Get in touch with how you and those you care about
- really feel, rather than how society wants you to feel, or
- how you think it would be logical to feel, or how you've been
- told polyamorous people (or monogamous people) should
- feel. Then behave in ways which are honest, and which make
- you, and the people you care about, and the people they care
- about, happy and fulfilled. If this results in you having
- more than one intimate relationship at the same time, or
- being involved in a relationship with more than two people,
- those who are big on categorizing and labeling people will
- label you a 'poly person'."
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 12). What about living together and commitment and marriage
- and all that?
-
- Good question. Ask it; there are many many approaches among the
- people on the newsgroup. From cohousing to communal living to
- group marriage to things-undreamed, there are a multitude of
- ways. Design a new one and see how it works. Unlearn assumptions
- about an old arrangement. Ask questions, and practice empathy.
-
- Most of all, polyamory seems to be about building new
- configurations of relationships rather than trading people in and
- out like baseball cards. As amanda r. clark says:
-
- "Poly is being open to the opportunity if it comes along, not
- refusing commitments because something better might come
- loping down the path."
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 13). What will the children think?
-
- As Martin Schafer says:
-
- "If you don't think you are doing anything wrong, and can
- honestly explain that, they'll probably think it's pretty
- neat. For some of us having more people involved in child
- rearing is a big practical benefit of our lifestyle. The
- details of how this works is a fertile topic for discussion,
- both here and among the individuals involved."
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 14). How does a person start (or continue) a poly
- relationship?
-
- First, there are no rules. Nobody owns the copyright on
- polyamory. You get to build your own to fit you and your
- dearloves.
-
- One thing that comes up in every conversation about polyamory is
- communication. If there is any basic building block, this is
- probably it. If you can talk about your hopes, you're on the way
- to realizing them.
-
- If you're in a relationship already, and have not talked about
- how you feel and what you want, and you're asking the question
- "How do I start doing this poly stuff?", you may have some qualms
- about talking to your partner. What you do will have to be
- determined by your own ethics and your own situation; chances are
- that if you ask on the newsgroup, many polyfolk will suggest you
- talk it over with your partner, and they may point out that even
- if you two do not decide to live polyamorously, you may very well
- increase the intimacy level in your monogamous dyad by having the
- discussion.
-
- On the other hand, it may all go blooey, and this is why people
- hesitate. On the third hand, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
- On the fourth hand, it might be useful to increase the intimacy
- level in the existing relationship and address any outstanding
- difficult issues there *before* having this particular
- discussion. Four more hands and you've got a nice statue of Kwan
- Yin there, and seeing as how she's the Goddess of Mercy, she
- might come in handy at a time like this.
-
- Joe Avins feels that it's not a good idea to try to force a
- relationship into an attractive model; he favors the "relax, be
- open, and see what happens" approach, and quotes Pete Seeger:
- "Take it easy, but take it."
-
- If you're already in more than one relationship and haven't
- disclosed this yet, you will find people on the newsgroup who
- have experienced similar things - from all three sides - and are
- willing to discuss their perceptions and the actions they took.
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 15). How do I explain this to people?
-
- David Rostcheck says:
-
- "You don't have to explain yourself at all, or answer to
- anyone. You're happy. Your feelings require no
- justification. It's a mistake to try to reconcile what you
- feel with a social classification, because the classification
- may not really suit you. You start with your feelings,
- understand them and be comfortable with them. You, your
- feeling, and the people you care about are the important
- things. You're getting in this unnatural, inverted position
- of trying to explain yourself. You don't have to explain
- yourself to the world. You just are, and your relationship
- just is. If other people want to understand it, then you try
- to explain to them in basic terms what you feel, and that
- you're happy.
-
- "Here's how I'd deal with some specific questions:
-
- ":Are you seeing my daughter or this other girl?
- I'm seeing them both.
-
- ":So you're cheating on her?
- No. They both know; we're all friends and we're happy that
- way.
-
- ":Well, which do you love?
- I love them both.
-
- ":Which do you love more?
- I don't understand the question. They're different
- people. How do you measure?
-
- ":Why don't you commit to one of them?
- Why can't I commit to both of them?
-
- "See? You don't have to bend over backwards to express
- yourself in their terms. They may have to learn your terms to
- understand you. You're not the one who doesn't understand;
- they have to put in the work to comprehend you. Remember, the
- bunch of you have something that comes naturally and feels
- right for you; whether or not other people get it is a
- secondary issue. As long as you do what you want you'll be
- happy.
-
- "Does that help any?"
-
-
- ------------------------------
-
- Subject: 16). Is there a secret alt.poly handshake?
-
- Not that I know of. ;-) There are several proposed symbols, of
- which the most common seems to be the parrot. As parrot pins and
- other ornaments are relatively easy to find, this symbol seems
- likely to catch on over the others. It also has the advantage of
- being humorous, which is a needed quality in such a staid,
- conservative group as alt.poly. (Joke, folks! Set irony filters
- on stun.)
-
- ------------------------------
-
- End of alt.polyamory FAQ
- ************************
-