ftp.pasteur.org/FAQ//ftp-pasteur-org-FAQ.zip/FAQ/misc-forsale-faq/buying-selling

Internet Message Format | 1998-10-21 | 26.0 KB

Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.kodak.com!news-nysernet-16.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!pln-e!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!HME1-2.newsfeed.sprint.ca!HME1.newsfeed.sprint.ca!news.uunet.ca!omega.metrics.com!omega.metrics.com!not-for-mail
From: [e-mail] (Dan King)
Newsgroups: misc.forsale.computers.discussion,misc.forsale.non-computer,biz.marketplace.discussion,biz.marketplace.international.discussion,biz.marketplace.services.discussion,biz.marketplace.computers.discussion,biz.marketplace.non-computer,misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone.systems,misc.answers,news.answers
Subject: Misc.FS+Biz.Mktplc TRANSACTIONS FAQ--INFO FOR NEW USERS
Supersedes: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: poster
Date: 21 Oct 1998 03:03:25 -0400
Organization: Software Metrics Inc.
Lines: 577
Sender: [e-mail]
Approved: [e-mail]
Distribution: world
Expires: 5 Nov 1998 07:03:02 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: omega.metrics.com
Summary: This article describes transactions over Usenet in detail.
    It presents the options available, recommended methods, and
    issues to protect buyers and sellers who conduct business by
    e-mail and parcel service--domestically and internationally.
Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu misc.forsale.computers.discussion:16456 misc.forsale.non-computer:78975 biz.marketplace.discussion:22201 biz.marketplace.international.discussion:8885 biz.marketplace.services.discussion:11611 biz.marketplace.computers.discussion:7276 biz.marketplace.non-computer:81509 misc.answers:8344 news.answers:142475

Archive-name: misc-forsale-faq/buying-selling
Posting-Frequency: 6th & 21st of the month
Last-modified: 1996/02/06
Version: 5.3
Major-Changes: Update to reflect biz.mktplc moderation
URL: http://www.fmn.net/FAQ

        --The Usenet Marketplace FAQ--

Volume II.        The How-To of the
Transactions           biz.marketplace.*
              and misc.forsale.*
                 newsgroups

The entire FAQ is now in full hypertext on the Web.  If you
have a web browser, then for goodness sakes, don't plow
through the text version!  Point your web browser to:
    <http://www.phoenix.net/~lildan/FAQ>

maintained by Daniel King     <mailto:[e-mail]>
    Suggestions/comments/flames always welcome!
-----------------------------------------------------------

Volume I. Posting Ads on the Usenet Marketplace
    1.  Welcome to the Usenet Marketplace!
    2.  Purpose of the Usenet Marketplace.
    3.  What is appropriate to post, what isn't?
    4.  How to write ads for newsgroups.
    5.  Usenet Marketplace group list and descriptions.
    6.  How can I receive newsgroups not carried by my site?
    7.  Other classified ads on the Internet.
    8.  Considerations for commercial/entrepreneurial users.
        Subtopic:  A short guide to cancelling articles

Volume II. Conducting Transactions on Usenet
    9.  Finalizing the sale.
    10. Payment and shipping recommendations.
    11. International transactions.
    12. Glossary of common Usenet terms

----------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Subject: 9. Finalizing the sale.

  You've found a buyer for your cherry pitter in California, but
    you are in New York.  How can you send him the item and make
    sure you get paid?  Conversely, how can he be certain that
    he'll receive the item in good working order?  A few people
    choose to avoid this problem by not doing business by mail.
    In reality, they lose out by staying away from a very large
    market for their goods.

  Every day, perhaps a hundred or more successful transactions
    take place on the Usenet Marketplace.  Most of the time,
    everything goes smoothly.  Occasionally, however, problems
    arise.  It is your job, whether buyer or seller, to catch any
    potential problems as early as possible.  Thus, it is a good
    idea to check and double-check all aspects of a sale long
    before any packages are sent.

***The Number One Problem:  Miscommunication***

  Fraud is very rare on the Usenet Marketplace.  Much more often,
    the transaction has problems because the buyer and seller
    didn't know exactly what was going on.  Before you discuss
    shipping arrangements, make sure both parties know the exact
    description of the transaction--

    What exactly is being sold?
    If it is a computer item, will it work in the buyer's
        system?
    How will it be shipped and paid for?
    When will it be shipped and paid for?
    What are the conditions of returning the item if it
        doesn't work?
    What is the other party's correct street address and
        phone number?

  If your questions meet resistance from the other party, be
    wary.  Both parties should be as open as possible in order to
    complete a successful transaction.  Some experienced buyers
    also make it a policy to call the phone number to confirm its
    existence for added safety, although this isn't necessary in
    most cases.  Finally, we strongly urge you to get a current
    street address, even if it isn't the shipping address.  In
    the exceedingly unlikely event that you need to file a
    lawsuit, this will save a lot of hassle later.

  Above all, ask questions now, _before_ the sale takes place!
    If you are clear on the details beforehand, and if you are
    sure the item will do what it is supposed to, both parties
    will be happier in the end.  If you're not satisfied with the
    answers to your questions, then ask more questions, and don't
    be afraid to cancel the sale.  If you think the person on the
    other end of the line may cheat you, then don't give him the
    opportunity.

  In summary, make sure that both sides:

    .Are clear about the goods or services being exchanged
    .Have provided detailed contact information
    .Agree on implied warranties and return conditions
    .Understand the shipping arrangements, especially when
        the items or payment will be shipped

  If you have a problem later, it will be much easier to resolve
    if you have this information documented.  Save a hard copy of
    all e-mail and written correspondence.

------------------------------

Subject: 10.  Payment and shipping recommendations

  One of the hardest parts of any Usenet Marketplace sale is the
    exchange of goods for cash.  How can both buyer and seller be
    assured of fair treatment?

***The Safest Ways to Ship for Buyer _and_ Seller

  COD  (Collect On Delivery)
    small and medium transactions
    COD is the Usenet Marketplace standard for transactions
    too small for a third party escrow service.  Federal
    Express, United Parcel Service,    the U.S. Postal Service,
    and many other countries' postal carriers offer this
    option.  In these transactions, the seller ships the item
    to the buyer "COD".  The buyer then pays the courier on
    arrival in exchange for the package.  The courier then
    forwards the payment to the seller.  The small fee is
    well worth the security of having the courier act as an
    intermediate--the buyer can't receive the package until
    he pays, and the seller isn't paid until the buyer
    receives the package.  This method is not foolproof, as
    the buyer usually cannot check the package to make sure
    the correct item was sent.  Cash and money orders are
    usually accepted, but we recommend the buyer pay by
    check or cashier's check to be able to stop payment in
    the event there is a problem.  Unfortunately, COD is not
    available for international transactions.

  Payment by check or money order
    for small transactions
    For small items, fast delivery, or if both parties trust
    each other, payment by check can be a good method,
    although it provides the least security for one of the
    parties.  Either the buyer sends a check first, seller
    sends the goods first, or both agree to send at the same
    time.  Buyer sending a check first is the most common.
    Sometimes, the seller may wait a short time to make sure
    the check clears.  A money order or cashier's check will
    also work, but _do_not_ send cash.  Also, a cancelled
    check makes a good proof-of-payment if the seller doesn't
    deliver.  For this reason, we discourage the practice of
    having the buyer send half-payment before receiving the
    package, and half after.  In court, a cancelled check for
    the first payment may be enough to convince a judge that
    the buyer paid in full.  For the seller, sending the
    package with a return receipt can provide added security.

  Escrow
    Medium to large transactions and international sales
    For expensive items, additional precautions are
    recommended.  One good suggestion is escrow.  In this
    case, a third, trustworthy party acts as an intermediary.
    Usually, the intermediary receives the buyer's check, and
    notifies the seller to ship the merchandise with a return
    receipt    addressed to the intermediary.  Once the
    intermediary receives the receipt, the buyer typically
    has a day or two to confirm that the goods are
    as-advertised, then the intermediary forwards the payment
    to the seller.    Sometimes, especially with local
    transactions, the intermediary may receive and/or examine
    the merchandise    directly.  Also, some escrow services
    accept credit cards for payment, a useful service in
    international trades.  Your lawyer may offer this
    service, or you may contact the    following services:

    American Computer Exchange  (MC/VISA)
      [phone]  USA
      Fee: 5-8%, min. $50
    Boston Computer Exchange
      [phone]  USA
      Flat fee
    Computer Classified Exchange Service
      [phone]  USA
      Fee: $20 up to $1000 transaction
      Welcomes international sales
      [e-mail],  Subject: "Seller Info" or
        "Buyer Info"
    GuaranTrade  (MC/VISA)
      [phone]  USA
      Fee: 5% up to $1500, min. $10, rate drops after $1500
      [e-mail],  Subject: "info"
    NETtrade
      [phone]  Durham, North Carolina
      Fee: $5 up to $100, $10 up to $1000, $20 for $1000+
      [e-mail]
    Trade-direct
      [phone]  USA
      Fee: 4%, min. $10, max. $60
      [e-mail]
    TradeSafe Online Corporation
      [phone]  USA
      Fee: $15 up to $300, declining from 5% to 1% thereafter
      [e-mail]
    United Computer Exchange  (MC/VISA)
      [phone]  USA
      Fee: 8-15%
      [e-mail]

   [No implication is made as to the integrity of any company at
   this time.  If you know of any other escrow services, please
   let us know.]

  Pay by credit card
    Escrow and commercial transactions
    This option is only available through authorized
    merchants, but it is the means of choice when available.
    This is the safest means for the buyer, because he can
    appeal to the credit card company if the merchandise is
    faulty.  Meanwhile the seller is guaranteed payment by
    the bank.

  Pay by electronic check
    Escrow and commercial transactions
    A few companies now accept electronic checks, where you
    send them the numbers on the bottom of your check, and
    they write a bank draft against your account which they
    can deposit immediately, saving a couple days' mailing
    time.  Companies will usually let you know if they accept
    this form of payment in their ads.

  We suggest adhering to these methods, as they are proven and
    the safest for both parties.  In all cases, you should
    do the following:

    Keep hard copies of your e-mail, checks, and proof-of-mailing
    Insure packages adequately
    Make sure both of you are absolutely clear on the items and
    arrangements
    Exchange and double-check addresses and phone numbers

  In the case of expensive items, you may also wish to draw up a
    notarized bill of sale.  A bill of sale is proof as to what
    is being sold and how much is being paid--essentially a legal
    contract.  [e-mail] has provided a sample bill of sale
    for free distribution on the Usenet Marketplace.  You can
    download a copy by anonymous FTP from ftp.phoenix.net in
    /pub/USERS/lildan/FAQ.

  Also, for all interstate transactions in the U.S., goods must
    be shipped within 30 days of receipt of payment, unless
    specifically stated otherwise.  If a shipment will be
    delayed, the buyer has the right to cancel the sale and
    receive a full refund.  Most states have similar laws.

  Finally, If something does go wrong, the best place to start is
    to contact the other party by e-mail or telephone.  Again,
    the #1 source of problems is miscommunication.  If this
    doesn't work, contact the other person's system administrator
    by sending e-mail with an explanation of the situation to
    postmaster@[systemname].  Most system administrators will
    help if you've already exhausted other routes.  But please
    remember that most system administrators are very busy.
    Contact them _only_ when direct discussions fall through.


  DISCLAIMER:
    While rare, occasionally fraud does occur on the Internet.
    It is ultimately the buyer and/or seller who must take
    precautions to ensure fair treatment.  Presented here are
    merely suggestions of means of transaction which worked for
    others.  There is no guarantee that they will work for you.

------------------------------

Subject: 11.  International transactions.

  Despite the large number of advertisements from the U.S., the
    Usenet Marketplace is a global institution.  All advertisers,
    even individuals, need to be aware of the international
    culture and reflect it in their ads.  Also, they need to
    be prepared to deal with international issues if a potential
    buyer sends an offer from a foreign nation.  Many successful
    transactions occur across country boundaries, but a few more
    topics need to be covered before shipping to other countries.

***Use the Escrow method***

  Unless a transaction involves items of very low value, use the
    escrow method for completing the sale.  The advantages, in
    this case, are manyfold.

  For one, paying an escrow service by credit card solves the
    problem of trying to deposit a check drawn on a foreign bank.
    The major credit card companies usually give better exchange
    rates than most banks because they can trade currency amongst
    their international operations.  Meanwhile, most banks will
    charge a hefty fee, often US$20 to process a check drawn on a
    foreign bank.  Meanwhile it can cost just as much for the
    buyer to acquire a cashier's check drawn on a bank in the
    seller's country.  These charges, and the impossibility of
    recovering your money or items in case of fraud, makes the
    effective cost of escrow minimal to negative.  Some people
    successfully send cash through the mail for small items, but
    as this is not recommended in the U.S., it is even less
    recommended internationally.  Finally, COD is not available
    across international boundaries.

***Choose a courier carefully***

  Before shipping a package internationally, ask the shipping
    company how it handles international packages.  Sending
    packages through many major couriers may result in additional
    fees on the receiving end for delivery to certain countries.
    These charges may cover expenses in clearing customs, or they
    may represent a brokering fee to transfer the package to a
    courier that delivers in the buyer's country.  France and
    Canada are two prime examples with certain couriers.  Some
    major couriers operate in different countries, so packages
    sent by one courier may not incur a fee for a package shipped
    from the U.S. to Japan, while another will.  You must ask,
    and it may take a few tries because many representatives may
    not be fully aware of the international situation.

***Taxes and legal restrictions***

  Most international sales are subject to import duties, if
    properly declared.  Gifts and small transactions often pass
    by unnoticed by customs in many countries, but the buyer can
    expect to pay sales, value-added, or import taxes in large
    international transactions.  Make sure you know what those
    fees will be in your country before you finalize an offer to
    buy, because these taxes sometimes exceed 100%.  Duties can
    often negate the benefits of buying from a foreign country.
    Contact your nearest customs agent or international shipping
    company for more information.

  While the buyer worries about duties, the seller needs to know
    of any restrictions on business to the buyer's country.  For
    example, it is illegal to send many kinds of advanced
    technology from the United States to certain countries, and
    likewise across other international borders.  Advanced
    technology is more encompassing than just weaponry and
    militaria.  Many common software packages and computers may
    face export restrictions punishable by jail time in the U.S.

***Make it easy, let someone else do the work***

  Because of the complexity, and sometimes absurdity, of
    international laws, and because of the documentation required
    on all international packages, all readers who wish to deal
    internationally should speak with a company experienced in
    such matters.  Any local packaging and mailing service should
    be able to refer you to an appropriate company, or you can
    contact one of the following international freight
    specialists:

    Mailboxes Etc.
        Chain of local mailing services which caters to
        individuals
        On the Internet, but address is unknown.
    Overseas Alliance Group, USA
        International equipment freight forwarding
        [phone]  USA
        [e-mail]

  Questions you need to ask an international shipper:

    Is it legal to ship this item to country X?
    What import/export/value-added taxes must be paid?
    What is the best way to ship, and how much will it cost?
    What documentation is required?
    How can international shipments be insured?

------------------------------

Subject: 12.  Glossary of terms.

  Biznet
    The Biznet is the collection of official biz.*
    newsgroups, as listed in Ed Hew's FAQ about the Biznet,
    posted to news.answers.  The biz.marketplace groups are
    a part of this collection.
  CD-ROM    Compact Disc Read Only Memory
    This digital storage method uses the same plastic discs
    as audio CDs, but instead of music, the discs can contain
    up to 640 megabytes of data and/or software.  Most CD-ROM
    drives have headphone jacks for playing audio CDs.
  Chain Letter
    A pyramid scheme in which you send money to a person at
    the top of a list, add your name to the bottom, then send
    that list to acquaintances and convince them to do
    likewise.  Chain letters, even those which purport to
    'sell' mailing lists, are prohibited at over 90% of
    Internet sites, and if propagated by e-mail or news will
    likely cause you to lose your account.
  COD        Collect On Delivery
    In COD transactions, the deliveryperson collects money
    from the recipient as the package is delivered.
  DOA        Dead On Arrival
    An item was broken when received.  Often used to express
    warranties with electronics; "Warranted against DOA"
    See also WOA (Working on Arrival)
  EIDE        Enhanced IDE
    EIDE is the successor to the IDE hard drive interface,
    allowing for CD-ROM drives and hard drives larger than
    512MB.
  ESDI        Enhanced Small Device Interface
    ESDI is a high-performance hard drive interface for PCs
    that was popular a few years ago, but is quickly
    disappearing.
  FAQ        Frequently Asked Question
    An FAQ is an article on a newsgroup which answers many
    questions often asked by new readers in that newsgroup.
    FAQ also refers to each of the questions individually.
  Flames
    These articles or e-mail messages ridicule another or
    another's ideas, often in a stinging, blunt manner.
    Flames are a tradition on the Internet, and something to
    expect if you make a netiquette blunder.  Do not take
    them literally, but look for the suggestions presented.
    The tone is generally very negative, but the point is
    usually    clear.
  FD        Floppy Drive
    This computer storage device which reads 3.5", 5.25" or
    8" floppy disks.
  FS        For Sale
    Something is being offered in exchange for money.
  HD        Hard Drive
    Hard disk drives act as permanent storage devices for
    computers, and commonly come in sizes from 10 megabytes
    for older computers to 10 or more gigabytes for some
    business and research uses.  Note that physical capacity
    and usable capacity may be different for a given drive.
  IDE        Integrated Drive Electronics
    The standard hard drive interface for PCs sold today, IDE
    incorporates most of the electronics on the hard drive
    package, rather than on any interface cards.
  IMHO        In My Humble Opinion
    An American expression followed by an opinion about a
    current    issue.
  Internet
    The Internet acts as the carrier of billions of
    electronic messages, articles, and pieces of digital
    information annually.  This decentralized, worldwide
    computer network was initially developed in the U.S. by
    the military for its operations and by the National
    Science Foundation to promote communication in federal
    and scholastic research.
  MB        Motherboard
    The motherboard is the backbone of most computers,
    containing the CPU, memory, and other support.
  xxxMB        Megabytes
    The megabyte, or 1 million bytes, is a unit of computer
    memory and storage consisting of 8 million 1's and 0's
    which have meaning to a computer.  This abbreviation is
    often used to mention the storage capacity or online
    memory of a computer system, as in a 500MB hard    drive or
    4MB RAM.
  MCA        Micro-Channel Architecture
    MCA is a motherboard communication interface used by IBM
    in some IBM PS/2 computers.  It is technically superior
    to the standard ISA architecture for most uses, but it
    was poorly marketed, and is quickly disappearing.
  Meg        Megabytes
    See megabytes.
  MFM        Modified Frequency Modulation
    MFM is a physical method of storing data on a hard drive.
    This interface was the original IBM PC standard, but is
    not compatible with most systems manufactured more
    recently.
  MLM        Multi-Level Marketing
    A legitimate means of merchandise or service distribution
    where members can actively engage in sales or in sales
    force recruitment.    For every sale made by a
    salesperson you recruited or anyone under him, you
    receive a portion of the commissions.   Because of
    improprieties in the past, the US Government tightly
    regulates the ways in which MLM operators can present
    their business.
  MO Drive    Magneto-Optical Drive
    This hard storage device is similar to a rewritable
    CD-ROM.
  OBO        Or Best Offer
    This means that the stated price is negotiable.
  OEM        Original Equipment Manufacture
    OEM equipment or software is intended to be used to make
    original equipment rather than to be used for spare parts
    or as an after-market add-on.  It is often used with both
    computer hardware and software to describe items intended
    to ship only with complete computer systems.
  Pyramid Scheme or Ponzi Scheme
    A money-making opportunity popularized by Ponzi and
    illegal    in the United States in most forms.  This scheme
    involves an individual convincing others to pay him for
    the right to solicit others for payment in turn.  By
    recruiting more    people than the number of people you pay
    for this right,    you supposedly make money.  In reality,
    the people at the bottom of the pyramid never get paid by
    anyone and lose.  Such schemes are strictly forbidden at
    most Internet sites, and will cause you and your system
    administrator great grief if you try to propagate such a
    scheme by e-mail or over the newsgroups.  Occasionally,
    merchandise sales are involved.  (see MLM for a    similar
    legitimate opportunity).
  RAM        Random Access Memory
    RAM is the main operating memory for most computers.  It
    is erased when the computer is turned off.
  RLL        Run Length Limited
    This method of encoding data on hard drives is often
    used to describe the successor to MFM, although it uses
    very similar hardware.  It exists only on old PC systems.
  SCSI        Small Computer Standard Interface
    This is a modern device interface, faster than IDE, which
    supports hard drives, CD-ROM drives, floppy drives, and
    other media storage.  Most of the electronics for this
    interface are contained on the interface card.
  SIMM        Single In-line Memory Module
    This is a way of packaging RAM for easy installation.
    SIMMs come in 72 and 30 pin varieties for different
    computers, and have been the standard for most computers
    manufactured in the last several years.
  SIPP        Single In-line Pinned Package
    SIPPs are a type of RAM which come in 30 pin varieties,
    but are rarer than SIMMs.  SIPPs can be    converted to
    SIMMs with the appropriate adapters.
  Spam
    Posting an advertisement or advertisements to a large
    number of inappropriate newsgroups, often including
    groups which don't allow ads.  You'll hear from your
    system administrator if you try it.
  Usenet
    The collection of official newsgroups in the Big 7
    hierarchies:  misc, news, soc, rec, comp, sci, talk.
    These groups are propagated primarily, but not
    exclusively, over the Internet.
  Velveeta
    Posting several times to one newsgroup, particularly if
    it would have been reasonable to combine all of the
    content    in fewer posts.  Also, articles which are
    reposted too frequently.
  WOA        Working On Arrival
    The item works when it is tried for the first time after
    delivery.  A guarantee that an item will be WOA is
    typical    in the Usenet Marketplace.  If the item breaks
    later, the seller is not responsible.
  WORM        Write Once Read Many
    This method of hard storage can only be written to once,
    but can be accessed often.  The hardware to write to a
    WORM disk is much less expensive than hardware for
    CD-ROM.
  WTB        Wanted To Buy
    This abbreviation is used when the poster is looking for
    a particular item.
  WWW        World Wide Web
    Also know as W3, or just the "Web", the World Wide Web is
    a computer communications medium that allows transmission
    and easy-to-read formatting of text, graphics, sound, and
    video.
  ;-)        The Universal Internet Smiley
    To appreciate it, look at this symbol with your head
    turned sideways.  It is used to indicate a joke, sarcasm,
    or any instance where the writer doesn't mean what he is
    saying.


  Thank you for reading, and we hope you find these suggestions
    are useful.  We encourage your comments, good and bad, to
    help us improve the effectiveness of this article.  Please
    send comments to Dan King, [e-mail].

           -*-*-*-*-End transactions FAQ-*-*-*-*-