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Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news.mathworks.com!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!paperboy.wellfleet.com!news3.near.net!amber.ora.com!not-for-mail From: norm@ora.com (Norman Walsh) Newsgroups: comp.fonts,comp.answers,news.answers Subject: comp.fonts FAQ: General Info (6/6) Supersedes: <font-faq-6_817479312@ora.com> Followup-To: poster Date: 14 Aug 1996 10:34:39 -0400 Organization: O'Reilly and Associates, Inc. Lines: 419 Sender: norm@ruby.ora.com Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.Edu Distribution: world Expires: 27 Sep 1996 14:34:08 GMT Message-ID: <font-faq-6_840033248@ora.com> References: <font-faq-1_840033248@ora.com> Reply-To: norm@ora.com (Norman Walsh) NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.ora.com Summary: This posting answers frequently asked questions about fonts. It addresses both general font questions and questions that are specific to a particular platform. X-Web-Homepage: http://www.ora.com/homepages/comp.fonts/ Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu comp.fonts:48301 comp.answers:20515 news.answers:79236 Archive-name: fonts-faq/part6 Version: 2.1.5 Subject: 1.33. Digital Type Design Tools This article was constructed from a posting by Charles A. Bigelow in Jun 1994 and a posting by Clive Bruton in Jan 1995. How do the various digital type designing tools compare? ======================================================== Charles A. Bigelow contributes: Kris Holmes and I use Ikarus and IkarusM, on the Macintosh, for most of our work. We also use Fontographer from time to time. Both are good tools. We have not tried TypeDesigner. We have tried FontStudio, but don't use it. IkarusM and Fontographer user interfaces are different (modulo the Mac interface). IkarusM displays all "on-curve" points, treating the curves as Hermite splines, which it converts to Beziers when making Type1 or Type3 fonts, and to quadratic B-splines when making TrueType fonts. On-curve points are helpful because they are intuitively more like what a naive user would expect--to change a curve, change a point on its contour. Fontographer uses bezier on-curve and off-curve control points. While these take a little more getting used-to, experienced users have no problems manipulating curves by moving around the off-curve control points. Fontographer uses curve fitting of scanned input and/or mouse manipulation of points to get started on outlines. IkarusM uses graphics tablet input from drawn (or photographed) artwork or mouse manipulation to get started. Both provide auto-hinting capabilities (IkarusM just included this in version 3.0), but I haven't compared the quality of hinting between the applications. Both provide automatic kerning capabilities, but again I haven't compared the quality carefully. IkarusM itself doesn't do kerning, but version 3.0 comes with Kernus, a separate auto-kerning system. Fontographer has more "goodies" in terms of the the different kinds of output of fonts and screen fonts for different platforms (indeed, we prefer it for making BDF bitmaps for UNIX platforms), and in the "finer points" so to speak, of manipulating control points, whereas IkarusM has more internal accuracy of resolution and more geometric symmetry manipulation tools. Fontographer has auto-tracing capability, for fitting outlines to scanned images, whereas IkarusM needs a separate program, LinusM to do that. However, LinusM adds several capabilities that Fontographer does not provide. I have forgotten the current list price for Fontographer (sorry, but I'm sure a Fontographer user or someone from Altsys can provide it; is it around \$250 - \$300?). IkarusM + Kernus + LinusM is around \$900, but one should check with the URW office in Nashua, NH, to be certain of that figure and of what is included. There are many other differences between the programs, and perhaps other users will want to point them out. Which would I choose? Well, I have them both. Kris Holmes and I have produced over 75 typefaces with Ikarus, though some of those were with Ikarus on VAX or Sun. We are comfortable with Ikarus and feel that it provides the highest level of precision and control, which for our professional purposes is what we most value. Nevertheless, we find Fontographer to be very good tool and continually buy the updates and test it and use it for various things when we feel that it is superior to Ikarus in particular respects. The best thing would be to test them both, but unfortunately, one's preference for one or the other might not manifest itself until one has gained more experience. Disclaimer: We pay the standard prices and purchase our copies of IkarusM and Fontographer and their upgrades, figuring that font tool developers deserve to be paid for their work, just like font designers. Bigelow & Holmes has font licensing arrangements with URW, the developers of Ikarus, but we are not paid by them. What about FontStudio? ====================== [Editors note: This seems like valuable information for the FAQ, which is why I've included it in a mostly wholesale fashion as Clive posted it. In general, I'm not a big fan of anonymous contributions, but in this case I've chosen to look the other way ;-). In particular, I've made no attempt to disambiguate the personal pronouns in this section!] Clive Bruton contributes the following: I will now do a mini compendium of all my comments as FontStudio's chief promoter, along with all the other people who support my view. Sorry to those who are not credited, but others wish to remain anonymous. The following snippets are not necessarily in chronological order, names have been changed to protect the guilty! Is FontStudio Still Being Marketed? ----------------------------------- Well it's one of those questions isn't it, it is certainly advertised in the UK and as far as I know still supported by Letraset UK, but as you have probably seen in comp.fonts there has been some debate over the relative merits of FontStudio vs Fontographer, my arguement suitably backed-up by ...., and there is certainly some doubt over its imediate future. Personally I'd like to see it re-launched, if only because the market needs some stimulation in order to produce ground-breaking products, and one App/Vendor (Fontographer/Altsys) doesn't make for healthy competition, as we've seen with Quark getting fat and lazy over their upgrades for XPress with no perceived threat from PageMaker (that should change real soon). However it (FS) retails in the UK for \$195.00 as opposed to Fontographers \$295.00, the current version is 2.0, as it has been for over two years, but then again there have been no bug fixes for it, no need! I am sure that you could buy it in the US via Letraset directly, if you wanted to. As far as marketing goes, I have just received a software brochure from Camalot (UK software vendor) that partly showcases the full Letraset range, and FontStudio is in there with the rest. If you can't get it in the States, I'm sure I can arrange for it to be shipped to you. What About Bitmap Generation? ----------------------------- FontStudio's advantage is that they call the ATM API to get ATM-generated bitmaps. Fontographer generates their own--and the results are much heavier and more messy. Yes, you're right, I did know, FS has 3 options on this, its own generation, which like Fontographers are rather heavy, ATM's which are just about perfect, and True Type, which from memory--since I only tried it a couple of times--tend to be a bit quirky. FontStudio is Better [than Fontographer]? ----------------------------------------- Could you elaborate on that? Why do you suppose that FontStudio disappeared, and Fontographer is still around? Not being belligerent or challenging you, since I'm totally unfamiliar with FontStudio--but Altsys is not exactly a Goliath compared to Letraset, in terms of the size of the company or the depth of its pockets, and I'm curious why such a good product from a big font vendor disappeared. I'll chime in here if that's OK. I'm very glad FontStudio came along; Fontographer was resting on its laurels until it got serious competition. Many people prefer FontStudio's drawing interface (which is like Illustrator's) to Fontographer's (which is, unsurprisingly, like Freehand's). There are other parts to the interface debate as well, like zoom factors, dialog complexity, and so forth, although much of it may be a matter of taste. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX was one of FontStudio's beta sites, and they used a lot of our advice, so it's not accidental that our designers still tend to use it until it's time to move the fonts over to the SPARCs. I use it when I'm playing with designs at home. It looks like Letraset didn't know how to promote what it had. It's worth noting that they'yre divesting themselves of their other graphics apps, not just FontStudio. At any rate, the biggest hurdle was that Fontographer had a four-year head start, capturing the hearts of nearly everyone who was serious about making fonts. Nobody wants to relearn an app, so the competition has to be darned good to get people to switch. It has happened (witness XPress vs PageMaker) but it's not easy. Another problem was that Letraset didn't develop FontStudio, they bought it. They and the developers (now Ares, the FontMonger people) didn't get along well, and that led to a painfully slow upgrade process. Altsys got themselves in gear, and started adding features right & left, outdoing FontStudio on nearly every count (technically, not necessarily in terms of user experience). I can only agree with what XXX has said above, plus... Just some more background info on FontStudio/Letraset. Unfortunately Letraset never seemed to get the knack of selling software, some examples of this are, Letraset were originally the distributors of Adobe products in the UK - a job that is now carried out by Principal, they also had a full complement of other Mac software - which seems to have reverted to its authors or disappeared alltogether, it has recently released the first commercially available Plug-In for Illustrator, a derivative of LetraStudio, to allow the creation of pespective and envelope effects - who knows about this? Back to the FontStudio/Fontographer debate, I have tried to use Fontographer, but as discussed above, the interface is just awful (as an aside, does anyone like FreeHand 4.0's interface?), FontStudios use of colour, pop-up menus, and general look and feel is completely at home alongside XPress and Illustrator, where as Fontographer, well... isn't! All the buzzers and bells are there in Fontographer, but can you really take seriously a program that won't allow you to draught your own bitmaps! (Yeah I have heard about ATM, that's not the point). Also, and I won't lay the blame solely at the door of Altsys, whenever I get asked to sort out a problem font, it's always been created with Fontographer. Now whether that is down to Altsys Fontographer (AF) trying to things that aren't exactly kosher (like using even/odd rule instead of winding), or the skill of the digitisers who did the work I've never been able to fathom, but it's usually fixed by importing into FontStudio (FS) and re-saving. I hope that Ares do something with FS, otherwise sooner or later I am going to need a new program (I have found a minor screen draw problem when used with System 7.5, I've yet to try it on a PowerMac [anyone wants me to, I can send you results]), I have already looked around, and seem a lot more likely to buy Ikarus M than AF, it's really that bad. I would also like to comment on XXX's point about XPress/PageMaker, I hope that Adobe can make a real killer of PM, and reverse that trend, XPress>PM that'll be the way to go! Just to take Xpress' name in vain again (I don't hate the program, just the smug bastards that want to charge me \$190.00 to get a native version, and only a native version - Adobe has got the right attitude there!) "XPress" is to "Word for Windows", what "FontStudio" is to "Fontographer". QED. Maybe not! If all those in favour send me a *YAY* (addressed to typonaut@d-supp.demon.co.uk) and someone sends me e-addresses for Ares and Letraset, then I will forward them your support, who knows Altsys may even decide to pack the whole Fontographer game in, and Adobe can relaunch FontStudio! Subject: 1.34. Type Design Firms Although it has been a long time coming, it seems only natural that the comp.fonts FAQ should provide a brief summary of what the various type design firms are producing. Carter & Cone Type, Inc. ======================== This description was constructed from postings by Don Hosek, Erik-Jan Vens, and David Lemon in Sep, 1993. Carter & Cone Type Inc. 2155 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02140 617-576-0398 or 800-952-2129 617-354-4146 FAX We begin with Carter & Cone not because I think they should be first, but because I already have a few articles about them (I probably saved the articles more because they were about Galliard, which I have a fondness for, than anything else). Please contribute summaries about other foundries (even the foundries themselves are encouraged to contribute, althought I'd appreciate it if the advertising overtones were kept to a dull roar ;-). Galliard -------- [Editors note: With appologies to C&C, I have the following snippet: >> the designer. He's in business for himself now as half of Carter & >> Cone (800 952 2129 voice), and he's worked Galliard over yet again. >> Should be cool. Support your local type designer. Which half of C&C does this refer to?] Don Hosek says: The specimen sheets arrived in the mail today (along with the newest Font & Function). Carter & Cone has three faces: ITC Galliard [CC] which is a family of 11 fonts. The bad news is that assignments of characters into expert sets and basic fonts is non-standard (the basic font is missing fi and fl). The good news is that the fonts are quite inexpensive. The whole set can be purchased for \$150. The font is a single weight only (if bold is strictly necessary, Bitstream Galliard Bold is consistent in height and can be mixed. On the other hand, designers need to learn to avoid the crutch of bold face on their pages). It is possible to purchase just those parts of the package which are needed. Those able to mix fonts on their own might be able to get a decent selection for less than \$150. Sophia ------ Don continues, The second font is Sophia which is a kind of quirky all-caps display face. It features a number of upper case ligatures [!] and has a kind of Greek-Turkish feel to it (not suprising, really: the face is based in 6th c. Constantinople letterforms). When I first saw this, I didn't like it, but it does grow on one. The price on this is \$60. Mantinia -------- Finally, Don concludes, The third font is Mantinia which is a more traditional display roman with some interesting features: e.g., more uppercase ligatures and an alphabet with superior caps in place of lower case (the La of LaTeX could be typeset without kerns or raises using this alphabet). Again, this took some growing on one, but I'm more accepting of this (and can even imagine using it for real work). The price on this is \$60. Subject: 1.35. What does `lorem ipsum dolor' mean? `Lorem ipsum dolor' is the first part of a nonsense paragraph sometimes used to demonstrate a font. It has been well established that if you write anything as a sample, people will spend more time reading the copy than looking at the font. The "gibberish" below is sufficiently like ordinary text to demonstrate a font but doesn't distract the reader. Hopefully. Rick Pali submits the following from Before and After Magazine, Volume 4 Number 2.: [quote] After telling everyone that Lorem ipsum, the nonsensical text that comes with PageMaker, only looks like Latin but actually says nothing, I heard from Richard McClintock, publication director at the Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, who had enlightening news: "Lorem ipsum is latin, slightly jumbled, the remnants of a passage from Cicero's _de Finibus_ 1.10.32, which begins 'Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit...' [There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain.]. [de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum, written in 45 BC, is a treatise on the theory of ethics very popular in the Renaisance.] "What I find remarkable is that this text has been the industry's standard dummy text ever since some printed in the 1500s took a galley of type and scambled it to make a type specemin book; it has survived not only four centuries of letter-by-letter resetting but even the leap into electronic typesetting, essentially unchanged except for an occational 'ing' or 'y' thrown in. It's ironic that when the then-understood Latin was scrambled, it became as incomprehensible as Greek; the phrase 'it's Greek to me' and 'greeking' have common semantic roots!" [unquote] One Example of Lorem Ipsum Dolor ================================ Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetaur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum Et harumd und lookum like Greek to me, dereud facilis est er expedit distinct. Nam liber te conscient to factor tum poen legum odioque civiuda. Et tam neque pecun modut est neque nonor et imper ned libidig met, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed ut labore et dolore magna aliquam makes one wonder who would ever read this stuff? Bis nostrud exercitation ullam mmodo consequet. Duis aute in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. At vver eos et accusam dignissum qui blandit est praesent luptatum delenit aigue excepteur sint occae. Et harumd dereud facilis est er expedit distinct. Nam libe soluta nobis eligent optio est congue nihil impedit doming id Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, set eiusmod tempor incidunt et labore et dolore magna aliquam. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerc. Irure dolor in reprehend incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse molestaie cillum. Tia non ob ea soluad incommod quae egen ium improb fugiend. Officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum Et harumd dereud facilis est er expedit distinct. Nam liber te conscient to factor tum poen legum odioque civiuda et tam. Neque pecun modut est neque nonor et imper ned libidig met, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed ut labore et dolore magna aliquam is nostrud exercitation ullam mmodo consequet. Duis aute in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. At vver eos et accusam dignissum qui blandit est praesent. Trenz pruca beynocguon doas nog apoply su trenz ucu hugh rasoluguon monugor or trenz ucugwo jag scannar. Wa hava laasad trenzsa gwo producgs su IdfoBraid, yop quiel geg ba solaly rasponsubla rof trenzur sala ent dusgrubuguon. Offoctivo immoriatoly, hawrgasi pwicos asi sirucor.Thas sirutciun applios tyu thuso itoms ghuso pwicos gosi sirucor in mixent gosi sirucor ic mixent ples cak ontisi sowios uf Zerm hawr rwivos. Unte af phen neige pheings atoot Prexs eis phat eit sakem eit vory gast te Plok peish ba useing phen roxas. Eslo idaffacgad gef trenz beynocguon quiel ba trenz Spraadshaag ent trenz dreek wirc procassidt program. Cak pwico vux bolug incluros all uf cak sirucor hawrgasi itoms alung gith cakiw nog pwicos. Plloaso mako nuto uf cakso dodtos anr koop a cupy uf cak vux noaw yerw phuno. Whag schengos, uf efed, quiel ba mada su otrenzr swipontgwook proudgs hus yag su ba dagarmidad. Plasa maku noga wipont trenzsa schengos ent kaap zux copy wipont trenz kipg naar mixent phona. Cak pwico siructiun ruos nust apoply tyu cak UCU sisulutiun munityuw uw cak UCU-TGU jot scannow. Trens roxas eis ti Plokeing quert loppe eis yop prexs. Piy opher hawers, eit yaggles orn ti sumbloat alohe plok. Su havo loasor cakso tgu pwuructs tyu InfuBwain, ghu gill nug bo suloly sispunsiblo fuw cakiw salo anr ristwibutiun. Hei muk neme eis loppe. Treas em wankeing ont sime ploked peish rof phen sumbloat syug si phat phey gavet peish ta paat ein pheeir sumbloats. Aslu unaffoctor gef cak siructiun gill bo cak spiarshoot anet cak GurGanglo gur pwucossing pwutwam. Ghat dodtos, ig pany, gill bo maro tyu ucakw suftgasi pwuructs hod yot tyubo rotowminor. Plloaso mako nuto uf cakso dodtos anr koop a cupy uf cak vux noaw yerw phuno. Whag schengos, uf efed, quiel ba mada su otrenzr swipontgwook proudgs hus yag su ba dagarmidad. Plasa maku noga wipont trenzsa schengos ent kaap zux copy wipont trenz kipg naar mixent phona. Cak pwico siructiun ruos nust apoply tyu cak UCU sisulutiun munityuw uw cak UCU-TGU jot scannow. Trens roxas eis ti Plokeing quert loppe eis yop prexs. Piy opher hawers, eit yaggles orn ti sumbloat alohe plok. Su havo loasor cakso tgu pwuructs tyu. [This version was found on CompuServe. It differs from other versions I have seen in print, increasingly so as you go along. It almost looks computer-generated, doesn't it?] This is Info file compfont.info, produced by Makeinfo-1.55 from the input file FAQ.texinfo.