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Newsgroups: soc.culture.irish,soc.answers,news.answers
Subject: Irish FAQ: Basics [1/10]
Summary: what is this all about anyway?
Keywords: netiquette Ireland northern republic constitution
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Archive-name: cultures/irish-faq/part01
Last-modified: 25 Sep 99
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URL: http://www.enteract.com/~cpm/irish-faq/

Part one of ten.


Frequently Asked Questions on soc.culture.irish with answers.
Send corrections, suggestions, additions, and other feedback
to <[e-mail]>

Basics

1) What is the newsgroup "soc.culture.irish" about?
2) Where is the Irish culture?
3) I found a lot of nastiness here.  Are real Irish people like that?
4) Could you please send me the Irish FAQ?
5) What is netiquette?
6) What is a troll?  What should I do when I see one?
7) What are the basics I should know about Ireland?
8) What are the basics about the Republic?
9) What are the basics about Northern Ireland?
10) I'm a bit confused by all the names.  Please explain.
11) What about Irish-Americans?
12) Why is there a conflict in the North?
13) Where can I find more information about the flags of Ireland?


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Subject: 1) What is the newsgroup "soc.culture.irish" about?

    soc.culture.irish was created by a vote of 539 to 21 following
    the usual process (see news.announce.newusers for more
    information on this process).  The result was announced in
    news.announce.newgroups on 12 May 1995.

    The vote approved the following as the charter of the newsgroup.

    ----------------------------------
    The soc.culture.irish newsgroup will be open to discussion of
    all subjects  specifically referring to Ireland or Irish
    culture.   This newsgroup will be created for reasons including,
    but not restricted to, the following:

    * To encourage understanding and discussion of Ireland and Irish
      culture, in the many ways people wish to define it.

    * To act as a focus for the Irish diaspora (Irish people,
      including emigrants and their descendants) and to draw
      together the global threads of Irishness.

    * To act as a resource for Irish people who wish to use the
      Internet and for people who wish to encourage the development
      of the Internet in Ireland.

    * To provide a forum for the use and support of the Irish
      language.

    The following exceptions should be noted:

    * Matters referring to the broader family of Celtic nations
      should be posted to soc.culture.celtic.

    * Matters referring to Irish folk music should be posted to
      rec.music.celtic.

    ----------------------------------
    [ At the time the charter was written there was no separate
    newsgroup for Irish family names.  Now there is
    soc.genealogy.ireland, which is more appropriate for this
    than soc.culture.irish .]

Like many newsgroups, soc.culture.irish is slowly developing a
    culture of its own. For a guide to what's _really_ going
    on, try Gerard Cunningham's informal guide to the newsgroup
    (http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/).


------------------------------

Subject: 2) Where is the Irish culture?

    Usually this question is a complaint.  Many people are
    disappointed when they read soc.culture.irish and find it
    isn't quite what they expected.  The newsgroup is not just for
    discussions about Irish culture (unless you broaden the word
    "culture" to encompass almost all things Irish).  This is for
    the very good reason that soc.culture.irish is the only Irish
    newsgroup with worldwide distribution.    (Other newsgroups, such
    as those in the ie.* hierarchy are not available everywhere.)
    It does not pay to read too much into a name when that name is
    fairly arbitrary (as is the case with most Usenet newsgroups).

    Having said that, there is most likely a place in the newsgroup
    for Irish culture as you define it.  If you don't see what
    you want to discuss, you should post an article on the subject
    yourself.  If you express yourself well, you'll probably find
    that people will respond positively.  On the other hand, it is
    not productive to complain about what's there if you have made
    no effort to contribute yourself.

If you need inspiration, take a look at Gerard Cunningham's archive
    of poetry postings (http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/poetry/)
    and various other cultural items
    (http://www.wwa.com/~abardubh/culture/culture.html).

    Finally, remember that, as in most news groups, the interesting
    articles are often hard to find until you get to know the group.
    There are discussions going on all the time about things other
    than politics: you just have to look beyond the current flame war.
    You might want to read for a couple of weeks before you pass
    judgement.  As always, good news reading software helps a lot.
    (This is particularly true since the newsgroup has become more
    busy, with upwards of 200 articles a day.)


------------------------------

Subject: 3) I found a lot of nastiness here.  Are real Irish people like that?

    No.  You cannot generalise from soc.culture.irish to "real"
    Irish people (whatever that means to you).  You can't do it
    for any of the other soc.culture groups either.  People often
    do not behave on newsgroups like they would in real life.
    A newsgroup is a great place to get on your hobby horse, make
    a lot of noise and get yourself some attention without paying
    the consequences you would if you did it in a pub.  Again,
    it pays to look beyond whatever rudeness offends you for
    quieter discussions that may be taking place in the next booth.

    (See also the question about trolls.)


------------------------------

Subject: 4) Could you please send me the Irish FAQ?

You might not get all the parts of the FAQ or you might just want
    the current version. Please try to get it yourself before
    asking me. If you have access to the web, use the web
    version (http://www.enteract.com/~cpm/irish-faq/).

There's also a FAQ archive which lets you search for keywords at
    the Internet FAQ Archives (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/).

    If you don't have access to the web, but you do have ftp access,
    use rtfm.mit.edu (log in as anonymous).  You should find all
    the FAQ files in the directory

     /pub/usenet-by-group/soc.culture.irish

    If you only have access to mail, send a message to
    [e-mail] with no Subject and just the following
    two lines in the body

    help
    end

    You can retrieve a list of the files using the index command

    index usenet-by-group/soc.culture.irish


------------------------------

Subject: 5) What is netiquette?

    It's politeness on Usenet.  People reading your articles
    appreciate it if you follow certain guidelines.  Some of the
    guidelines are listed here.  If you are not familiar with them,
    you might want to check the newsgroup news.announce.newusers.

    Summarise or quote (briefly!) what you are replying to.
    Don't assume other people see articles in the same order you do.
    Read all replies and don't repeat what has already been said.
    Check the headers when replying and remove irrelevant newsgroups.
    Don't criticise people for their spelling.
    Cite your references if you have any.
    Don't overdo your signature.
    Try to keep your lines less than 80 characters long.
    If you reply by mail _and_ news indicate that the reply is public.


------------------------------

Subject: 6) What is a troll?  What should I do when I see one?

    A troll is an attempt to start a prolonged flame war, a fierce
    argument with rude, personal insults.  Usually, a troll is an
    article that is so outrageous, insulting and stupid that you
    feel you _have_ to reply.  You can often recognise it because
    it is crossposted to several groups (very few articles posted
    to more than three groups are worth reading).  If it is posted
    by someone you never saw posts from before (especially if they
    are using an anonymous account), that's a good sign of a troll.
    Often, it will flagrantly violate basic netiquette.

    If you see a troll, don't post an angry reply.    If you do, the
    troller will have succeeded.  It's better to ignore the troll.
    (A humorous putdown is another option, but one that might
    backfire.)  If you have a killfile facility in your newsreader
    (sometimes called a filter), you can set it to ignore future posts
    from this person.  A good newsreader can also be set to "kill"
    a subject (ignore future posts with that subject line).

There's also a FAQ about trolls
    (http://digital.net/~gandalf/trollfaq.html).

    It's perhaps worth mentioning that not everything you
    personally find offensive is necessarily a troll.


------------------------------

Subject: 7) What are the basics I should know about Ireland?

    Ireland is an island in north-western Europe with a temperate
    climate.  Much of the coastline is hilly and large plains cover
    the middle and southeast of the country.  It is inhabited by
    around five million people.  Thousands of years ago, Ireland was
    covered with deciduous forests, but now fields are the
    dominant feature of the landscape.

    There are two cultures to be found in Ireland.    Historically,
    the island has been politically dominated by the people of its
    eastern neighbour, Britain.  One culture, found mostly among
    those whose ancestors came from Britain (usually hundreds of
    years ago) values its connections with Britain: people of this
    culture see themselves as British (though not always and not
    always exclusively) in the same way that the Scots and the
    Welsh are.  They are called unionists.    People aligned to the
    other culture see themselves as Irish and put great value in
    being independent from Britain.  They are called nationalists.
    While members of both groups will value the indigenous heritage,
    such as the Irish language, nationalists are apt to claim it
    as their own.  Unionists are mostly raised as Protestants,
    nationalists as Roman Catholics.  (Unsurprisingly, nationalism
    and unionism both run in families.)  The two cultures are often
    referred to as the two traditions, communities or identities.
    This is a generalisation, because many (maybe even most) people
    have connections to both cultures.

    There is a border between the north-eastern part of the island
    (which is still united with and ruled from Britain) called
    Northern Ireland and the larger south-western part (which has
    been independent since December 1921 and is governed from the
    largest city on the island, Dublin) known as the Republic of
    Ireland.  Unionists form the majority in Northern Ireland and
    nationalists form the (overwhelming) majority in the Republic.


------------------------------

Subject: 8) What are the basics about the Republic?

    Between Three-and-a-half and four million people live in the
    Republic (3.621 million at the time of the 1996 Census).  It is
    divided into twenty six counties:

    Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Cork, Donegal, Dublin*, Galway, Kerry,
    Kildare, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Limerick, Longford, Louth,
    Mayo, Meath, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary,
    Waterford, Westmeath, Wexford and Wicklow.

    [ * The counties do not necessarily coincide with
    administrative units any more.    For example, Dublin has at
    least _four_ councils, Fingal on the northside, Dublin City,
    Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown and South Dublin on the southside. ]

    Dublin, with a population of over a million, is the most
    important city.  The government has tried to slow emigration
    from rural areas to Dublin using measures ranging from grants
    to relocating government offices, but with limited success.

    Irish is the official first language, but is spoken mainly in
    areas located along the western seaboard known as Gaeltachts.
    Irish is a compulsory subject at school, but English is the
    language generally used in every day life. There are also a
    lot of Irish speakers in the cities (particularly Dublin),
    but they are less concentrated there than in the Gaeltachts.
    By the way, in Irish, Dublin is called Baile ┴tha Clφath
    (often abbreviated to B.A.C).

    Until recently the Republic had a high "dependency ratio",
    meaning that the number of people working was relatively
    small compared to the number of people they had to support.
    As the children of the baby boom of the early and mid-seventies
    comes of age, more and more of them will be entering the labour
    force, making this less of a problem.  With the extraordinary
    economic boom of the nineties, unemployment in the Republic
    has fallen from nearly a fifth to a single percentage figure
    below the European Union average.

    Ireland celebrates its national day on March 17th, the day of its
    patron saint, Patrick, who introduced Christianity to the country.
    The day is celebrated in the U.S. almost as much as (some would
    say more than) in Ireland.

    The republic has a bicameral Parliament (Oireachtas) consisting
    of an upper house or Senate (Seanad ╔ireann) and a lower house
    or House of Representatives (Dßil ╔ireann).  Members of the
    Dßil (known as Teachtaφ Dßla or T.D.s) are elected directly and
    this house has the primary legislative role.  The Seanad (whose
    members are not elected by the people at large) has limited
    powers and can in general be overridden by the Dßil.


    Chief of State:
    Uachtarßn (President) Mary McAleese

    Head of Government:
    Taoiseach (Prime Minister) Bertie Ahern


    The national flag is divided into three equal vertical bands of
    green (hoist side), white, and orange.  The green symbolises the
    nationalist culture, the orange the unionist culture, and white
    symbolises peace.


------------------------------

Subject: 9) What are the basics about Northern Ireland?

    Between one-and-a-half and two million people live in the North
    (1 577 836 were counted during the last Census in 1991).
    It is divided into six counties:

    Antrim, Armagh, Londonderry (usually called Derry by
    nationalists), Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone.  These counties were
    abolished as administrative units in 1973 and replaced with
    26 "districts" [draw a deep breath]: Antrim, Ards, Armagh,
    Ballymena, Ballymoney, Banbridge, Belfast, Carrickfergus,
    Castlereagh, Coleraine, Cookstown, Craigavon, Down, Dungannon,
    Fermanagh, Larne, Limavady, Lisburn, Londonderry, Magherafelt,
    Moyle, Newry & Mourne, Newtonabbey, North Down, Omagh and
    Strabane.

    Belfast is the most important city in Northern Ireland and the
    second biggest city on the island.  It has traditionally been the
    most industrially developed city in Ireland and is famous for
    its shipbuilding, particularly the Harland and Wolf shipyard.
    The shipyard has survived but is not nearly as important an
    employer as it once was.  It is a city starkly divided between
    nationalists and unionists: victims of violence can (and are)
    often be identified merely by the area they come from: someone
    from Ballymurphy is nationalist; someone from the Shankill is
    unionist.  Divisions are at their worst in working class areas,
    where it's often possible to label areas on a street by street
    basis: middle-class suburbs are more integrated.

    Unemployment is a serious problem just as it is in the south.
    It is also very unevenly distributed, as in the south: you will
    come across housing estates where the overwhelming majority of
    people are unemployed, often for more than one generation in the
    same family.  Up until the late sixties there was open
    discrimination against nationalists and many claim that this
    discrimination continues today, although there are now strict
    laws against discrimination.

    Northern Ireland is ruled from London: there is a Northern
    Ireland Secretary (currently Mo Mowlam) who is in charge of
    the Northern Ireland Office and hence the civil service.  The
    parliament in Stormont has not been active since the start of
    the Troubles in the early seventies, when "direct rule" was
    established.

    Currently 18 out of 647 constituencies represented in the
    House of Commons in London are in Northern Ireland.


    Chief of State:
    Queen Elizabeth II

    Head of Government:
    Prime Minister Tony Blair


    The Good Friday Agreement created an elected Assembly
    and Executive Authority for Northern Ireland.  The First
    Minister of this Executive is currently David Trimble;
    his Deputy First Minister is Seamus Mallon.

    The flag of Northern Ireland is that of the United Kingdom:
    the crosses of Saints Andrew, George and Patrick overlaid on
    each other.  (There is also flag for Northern Ireland alone,
    a red hand superimposed on a cross of St George.)


------------------------------

Subject: 10) I'm a bit confused by all the names.  Please explain.


    Different people use different names.

    There are two more important terms: "republican" and "loyalist".
    A republican believes in an extreme form of Nationalism, a
    loyalist believes in an extreme form of Unionism. Both terms are
    used to describe groups who advocate the use of violence to
    achieve political aims.

    Unionists tend to call Northern Ireland Ulster, even tough this
    is technically incorrect (Ulster includes three extra counties:
    Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal).  Republicans (here meaning
    nationalists who sympathise with violent attempts to force union
    between Northern Ireland and the Republic) often call Northern
    Ireland "the Six Counties" and the Republic "the Twenty Six
    Counties" (or, worse, "the Free State", a reference to the
    original Irish state with limited independence created in 1921).

    British people often call the Republic ╔ire (possibly
    because it was the word used by the BBC for years) but this
    is not popular amongst Irish people.  The word is grating to
    many Irish ears when used in English.  "╔ire" is the name
    of the state in Irish, "Ireland" is the name in English.
    The Constitution says as much (but also contains the phrase
    "We, the people of ╔ire" in its preamble, arguably a case
    of mis-translation).  Some Irish don't mind the mix and even
    use it themselves, however if in doubt, you call it "Ireland"
    if you are speaking English.



    "Ireland" is ambiguous: it may refer to the island or to the
    part governed from Dublin.  You may want to say "the island of
    Ireland" to avoid this ambiguity.  "The North" and "the South"
    are often used as shorthand for Northern Ireland and the Republic
    respectively.

    There is sometimes a subtle difference in whether the word is
    written with an initial capital or not, e.g. 'unionist'
    indicating a general connection with the idea, 'Unionist'
    implying a more direct political involvement especially relating
    to one of the Unionist political parties.

    Finally, you cannot tell someone's political allegiance reliably
    from what names they use: these are all generalisations.  The
    safest terms are "Northern Ireland" and "Republic of Ireland".


------------------------------

Subject: 11) What about Irish-Americans?

    What about them?

    But seriously, "Irish-Americans" are a topic of heated debate,
    repeated misunderstandings and a flame war permanently threatening
    to break out as soon a newcomer says something inapposite on
    soc.culture.irish.

    To summarise the problem, some Irish people don't like it
    when Americans refer to themselves as Irish or act in a way
    that implies (or seems to imply) that they are "really" Irish.

    There's not much that can be usefully said about this problem
    except perhaps that people should keep an open mind and try not
    to apply preconceptions based on words on a screen.  The word
    "Irish" can be specific, referring to nationality or it can be
    vague, referring to ethnic background or "identity".  There's a
    whole range of meaning, which may not be immediately obvious.




------------------------------

Subject: 12) Why is there a conflict in the North?

    (There is some hope that the Troubles in the North may be
    coming to an end and conflict will be of the more usual
    political kind, not involving the kind of violence that
    has made Northern Ireland infamous for three decades.
    Nevertheless, this answer refers to the Troubles.)

    This is a difficult question and one that is impossible to
    answer without offending some people.  There are two easy
    answers, each favoured by one side: because of the border;
    because of the IRA.  Neither is satisfactory, because both just
    raise more difficult questions: why do the border and the IRA
    exist today?  There is an attempt to answer the first in the
    History section of the FAQ.

    This is not a war between the Irish and the British: it is not
    a private war between the IRA and the British army; nor is it
    a war between catholics and protestants.  It is a struggle over
    the political future of Northern Ireland, one where some people
    have resorted to violence (as well as the IRA there are various
    loyalist groups who have a U for Ulster at the start of their
    acronyms).  An overwhelming proportion of nationalists and
    unionists reject violence (though they are usually most strident
    in their rejection when this violence is committed by the "other"
    side).

    To explain the conflict you must explain the IRA.  It has little
    popular support in Ireland (but considerable support in parts
    of Belfast, Armagh and Derry).    It is (despite claims to the
    contrary) a deeply political organisation with a well-developed
    ideology that justifies continued killing.  This is the ideology
    of British oppression.    Perhaps the most significant icon is
    the Bloody Sunday massacre in Derry when British paratroopers
    shot dead unarmed protesters.  It is events such as these that
    recruit members, not the low-level harassment of republicans or
    the border itself (both existed long before the Provisional IRA).

    A FAQ answer is not a real answer to the question: you need to
    read a book (preferably several).  "The Troubles" by Tim Pat
    Coogan (Random House, London 1995 ISBN 0 09 179146 4) might be a
    start.  (He also wrote a history of the IRA called, surprisingly
    "The IRA: A History".)   "The Edge of the Union" by Steve Bruce
    (ISBN 0-19-827976-0 ) takes a different point of view of the
    same period.


------------------------------

Subject: 13) Where can I find more information about the flags of Ireland?

    Vincent Morley has a web page about various Irish flags
    at http://www.connect.ie/users/morley/flags.htm

------------------------------

End of Irish FAQ part 1
***********************