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- From: vancleef@netcom.com (Hank van Cleef)
- Subject: Rec.antiques.radio+phono General Questions(FAQ: 1/9)
- Message-ID: <antique-radio+phono-faq-1-845766911@netcom.com>
- Followup-To: rec.antiques.radio+phono
- X-Content-Currency: This FAQ changes regularly. When a saved or printed copy
- is over 3 months old, please obtain a new one.
- Keywords: FAQ OLD-RADIO OLD-PHONO
- Sender: vancleef@netcom6.netcom.com
- Supersedes: <antique-radio+phono-faq-1-842985791@netcom.com>
- X-Posting-Frequency: posted on the 10th of each month
- Reply-To: vancleef@netcom.com (Hank van Cleef)
- Organization: Bluebonnet Firebottle Works
- Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 23:15:13 GMT
- Approved: news-answers-request@MIT.EDU
- Expires: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 01:15:11 GMT
- Lines: 499
- Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu rec.antiques.radio+phono:28611 rec.answers:24810 news.answers:84797
-
- Posted-By: auto-faq 3.1.1.2
- Archive-name: antiques/radio+phono/faq/part1
-
- Rec.antiques.radio+phono Frequently Asked Questions (part 1)
-
- Revision Date Notes
-
- 1.1 Oct. 20, 94. Second version---major editing. Added two new
- sections for sources-of-supply list.
- 1.2 Dec. 10, 1994. Minor corrections and revisions.
- 1.3 Jan. 8, 1995. Put in boatanchor mail list info.
- 1.4 Feb. 26, 1995 Approval to post on news.answers granted
- 1.4 May 8, 1995 Charter discussion and revised format notice
- 1.5 Sept. 3, 1995 Add new newsgroup cross references.
- 2.0 Nov. 20, 1995 Split FAQ from 5 sections to 9 sections
- 2.1 March 3, 1996 Revise charter disc., boatanchor pointers
-
- Part 1 - Introduction to the FAQ
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- FAQ editor: Hank van Cleef. Email vancleef@netcom
-
- This is a regular posting of frequently-asked questions (FAQ) about
- antique radios and phonographs. It is intended to summarize some common
- questions on old home entertainment audio equipment and provide answers
- to these questions.
-
- Regular FAQ postings can help save network bandwidth and maintain a good
- signal-to-noise ratio in the newsgroup. However, they can't do it alone - you,
- the reader, have to use them.
- * If you are a new user, please print and review the FAQ articles and look at
- the instructions in the news.announce.newusers newsgroup before posting any
- articles. If you don't find the answer in the FAQ and you have tried
- elsewhere, then you have "done your homework" and it is acceptable to ask
- the question on the UseNet newsgroups. Along with your question, please
- state where else you have looked for the answer so others also know that
- you have done your homework.
- * If you are an experienced user, please help by refraining from answering
- frequently-asked questions on the newsgroup if they are already answered by
- the FAQ articles. Instead, send e-mail to the user who asked the question.
- (It will be helpful if you include the part of the FAQ that answers their
- question, but not the whole thing.)
-
- The FAQ cannot always prevent people from posting repetitive questions. But
- even if hundreds of questions get posted, it saves you from having to answer
- them hundreds of times. Also, a friendly pointer to the FAQ in your first
- answer can help that person refer to the FAQ in the future. That is when we
- can begin to get a real savings of network bandwidth.
-
- To reduce the size of articles, the FAQ information is posted in 5 parts:
- Part 1 - Introduction to the FAQ and general questions.
- (Editor: Hank van Cleef, vancleef@bga.com).
- Part 2 - General questions about acoustical phonographs.
- (Editor: George Conklin, george@nccu.edu)
- Part 3 - Sources of spares and services for acoustic phonos.
- Part 4 - General questions about vacuum tube radios and phonos.
- Part 5 - Sources of spares and services for old radios.
- Part 6 - Cosmetic cleanup and cabinet finish questions
- Part 7 - Technical questions about vacuum tube radios and phonos
- Part 8 - Tools and test equipment
- Part 9 - Miscellaneous and other antique home entertainment devices
-
- Please do not E-mail technical questions, requests to identify various
- items, or technical questions to the Faq editors. Post them to the
- newsgroup instead. You will get better answers more quickly by
- posting.
- (March '96) My mailbox is getting far too many questions that I don't
- know the answers to, and I am responding with a form message that says
- "I don't know, post to the group." So I'll repeat:
- PLEASE DON'T MAIL QUESTIONS TO THE FAQ EDITORS. POST YOUR QUESTIONS TO
- THE NEWSGROUP. The FAQ editors read the newsgroup regularly, and
- generally respond where they have information. We have put a lot of
- general information in the FAQ, and a lot of it has come from discussion
- on the newsgroup, not from our own knowledge. You'll get more and
- better answers from posting to the newsgroup, and if we've got something
- to contribute, we'll do it there. Trying to use us as consultants
- simply wastes your time and ours.
-
- The charter for the rec.antiques.radios+phonos follows immediately,
- after which are some of the top frequently-asked questions.
-
- Newsgroups line:
- rec.antiques.radio+phono Audio devices and materials of yesteryear.
-
- CHARTER
-
- Discussion of the use, repair, and collecting of early standard-broadcast
- radios, phonographs, and any other similarly-related items designed for home
- entertainment sound receiving or sound reproduction.
-
- This group is intended to be a forum for those with an interest
- in sound-receiving and sound-reproduction equipment that was generally
- manufactured prior to the widespread use of transistors. The group's
- discussion, however, will not be strictly limited to vacuum-tube and
- mechanical devices, and those with an interest in early transistor radios,
- early televisions, and other such items that reflect pioneering audio
- technology will be welcomed.
-
- Exclusions:
-
- Amateur radio equipment discussion will be directed to the existing amateur
- radio newsgroups and to the boatanchors list. This is only done because
- those groups present an established forum for people with an interest in
- classic amateur radio equipment. Those classic amateur radio collectors who
- also share an interest in early standard-broadcast equipment will fully
- appreciate the desire to separate the two interests. Their valuable
- expertise will, however, be most welcome in all forums.
-
-
- Since the summer of 1993, there has been an ongoing discussion among
- those interested in antique radios and phonographs (and other related
- equipment and materials) about the possibility of forming this
- newsgroup. That small core of enthusiasts has rapidly grown in
- number, and now includes representatives of museums, technical
- specialists, collectors, and novices with an inquisitiveness about
- sound reproducing and receiving equipment of the past. With
- enthusiasm for the preservation and enjoyment of these superb
- expressions of human inventiveness steadily increasing, the time has
- come to establish a forum through which knowledge of their history,
- restoration, and use can be shared by experts and newcomers alike.
- This proposal represents the essence of what an Internet newsgroup can
- accomplish--it can produce a collective source of knowledge from which
- useful information can be drawn for years into the future.
- Bill Robie, August, 1994
-
- In general, this means:
-
- 1. This newsgroup has the name "antique" in it, and primarily addresses
- home entertainment equipment. It is not a "catch-all" group for
- discussing things not covered by other groups.
-
- 2. Items of particular interest to readers in this group:
- a. Acoustic phonographs of all types.
- b. Early electronic phonographs, primarily for playing 78 RPM
- disks.
- c. Radios of the 1920-50's period. Of particular interest are
- Atwater Kent, Philco, and Zenith sets, although all radios by earlier
- manufacturers are of interest to the group.
-
- 3. While much of the discussion the group is about radios and phonos of
- US manufacture, we welcome discussion of non-US radios and phonos from
- the same period sold primarily to a domestic market.
-
- 4. There are a great many opinions about what is "antique" and what
- isn't. The focus of the discussion that led to creation of this
- newsgroup was on phonograph and radio technology of the 1890-1950 era.
- The group does include some discussion of:
- a. Monaural vacuum tube "high fidelity" equipment.
- b. Early hybrid and transistor home entertainment designs.
- c. Early black and white televisions, and a few color sets.
- However, post-1950's technology generally diverges from the focus of
- this newsgroup. We generally regard 1960 as a cutoff date for
- appropriateness in this group.
- d. Instrumentation suitable for use in design, repair, and
- calibration of antique home entertainment items. This includes
- laboratory-grade equipment as well as service shop equipment.
- e. Discussions about technological history, recording and
- broadcasting practices, etc., have been interesting areas of discussion
- in the group.
-
- 5. While not originally sold as "home entertainment" equipment, there
- is an interest in jukeboxes, early musical devices such as the Hammond
- organ, and movie theater audio, particuarly items manufactured before
- WW II.
-
- 6. We welcome participation by "hams," and include some discussion of
- old tube-type communications receivers, particularly from the '30's and
- '40's in this group. Amateur radio issues in general are already covered
- by the rec.radio.amateur.* groups.
- (March '96). The "boatanchor" mail list, which was previously mentioned
- here, is, according to the list administrator, a paid subscription list
- as of March 15, 1996.
-
- 7. Casual buy, sell, swap, and trade, of old radios and phonos, parts,
- are within the charter. Please keep in mind that this is a discussion
- group, with many non-collectors who have one or two items that they
- enjoy. This is not a place to hawk your wares. If you have an old radio
- or phono or two, or want to buy a specific make and model of something,
- then post here. Do not post blanket "WTB (wanted to buy) notices for
- any and all old radios, old transistor radios, phono records, candlestick
- phones, etc. Also, do not post anonymously (AOL, Prodigy, and Compuserve
- users take particular note, as these systems do not give posters a clear
- identity). Give a geographic location.
-
- Before posting a buy/sell/swap item here, consider posting to one of the
- newsgroups set up for that purpose. Rec.antiques.marketplace is the
- principal group for antique trading, and is regularly read by readers of
- this group who want to buy and sell. Rec.radio.swap is a general group
- for electronic items of all types. Rec.audio.marketplace,
- sci.electronics.marketplace are also good groups to use, particularly
- for post-WW II items. Consider using a regional marketplace or forsale
- newsgroup, particularly if you are talking about something you do not
- want to ship. Remember that this group is worldwide.
-
- Dealers of parts, supplies, and services for home entertainment items
- are listed in sections 3 and 5 of this FAQ.
-
- 8. Binary postings. Please do not post binary files (picture files,
- uuencoded data, mime attachments, etc.) to this newsgroup. This is a
- Usenet convention, not a charter issue. A number of system
- administrators run software that detect and cancel binary postings in
- non-binary newsgroups. If you want to post a binary file, find a group
- with "binaries" in the name, post there, and post a pointer to it here.
- Keep in mind that binary groups are not available on many systems,
- because of the traffic volume involved, and are poorly propagated.
-
- Some of the things that don't seem to fit well with this group are:
- 1. Stereo from the 60's and later, particularly things with bookshelf
- speakers. The rec.audio.* newsgroups are the place to discuss these.
- 2. Computers. Usenet has hundreds of newsgroups devoted to computers,
- including old ones.
- 3. Tape recorders other than vacuum tube reel-to-reel units.
- 4. Video recorders.
- 5. Guitar amplifiers.
- 6. Amateur radio equipment except for older general coverage
- receivers that sold to non-hams as home entertainment SWL
- (shortwave listening) sets.
- 7. Phonograph records---trading should be done in the
- rec.music.collecting newsgroups.
- 8. Off-charter and commercial buy and sell postings. This includes
- "wanted to buy, old radios" postings from individuals, and any
- buy/swap/trade postings from anonymous accounts where name or location
- are not given. Repetitive postings are also unwelcome to most of the
- readers.
-
- The above are general guidelines, not hard-and-fast rules. If you
- receive a response posting or E-mail indicating that your post was off
- topic, it will generally point to a more appropriate group. This group
- has been historically free of flames. There are some very honest
- differences of opinion about many topics, and some of the discussions
- are lively. The focus of this group is on positive things. Ad hominum
- attacks, flame wars, along with attempts to use the group for commercial
- purposes, are not welcome here. Your questions, and your experiences
- with old radios and phonos are the lifeblood of the group. Work to make
- this group a happy and positive place.
-
- A note on safety: Virtually everything we discuss in this newsgroups
- can present safety hazards of one sort or another. In particular are
- the energy stored in phonograph springs and the voltages and currents in
- electronics equipment. In addition, processes such as soldering
- components can cause fires and serious burns if improperly done.
-
- While the subject of safety hazards and safe operation, troubleshooting,
- and repair practices is a topic of discussion on the newsgroup, such
- discussions are generally far from comprehensive. Additionally, many of
- the processes discussed presume knowledge of safe practices, and do not
- go into detail about possible hazards. Safety is your responsibility.
- While we may discuss techniques and practices that work well for us, and
- that we can use safely, we are not prepared to give supervised
- instruction or to audit people's safety practices. If you are unsure of
- your ability to work in a safe manner, seek out local assistance and
- supervision.
-
- Q. What other newsgroups cover similar items?
-
- A. There are several newsgroups covering broadcast and amateur radio;
- and audio equipment. Acoustic phonographs, player pianos, etc. are less
- likely to be covered in other newsgroups.
-
- Notable among other newsgroups with similar interests:
-
- rec.antiques General discussion of antiques.
-
- rec.antiques.marketplace Buy/sell/swap antiques of all types.
-
- rec.audio.tubes Discussion of later vacuum tube audio.
-
- rec.music.collecting.* Phonograph records. This hierarchy has both
- discussion and marketplace groups.
-
- rec.radio.swap Buy and sell any electronic equipment, new or old. This
- includes test equipment and accessories.
-
- rec.radio.amateur.equipment Specific to ham radio equipment.
-
- rec.radio.shortwave Discusses shortwave programming,
- stations, and receivers.
-
- sci.electronics.repair Repair information, primarily for modern
- equipment.
-
- rec.audio.* Discussion of audio equipment. This hierarchy
- includes several categories, as well as a marketplace newsgroup.
-
- rec.woodworking Discussion of woodworking, finishes, veneering,
- etc. If you are working with an old cabinet, read this group.
-
- Q. Where can I get needles for my Victrola.
-
- A. Contact the Antique Phonograph Supply Company, Route 23, Box 123,
- Davenport Center, NY 13751. Phone 607-278-6218. Remember to change
- your needles after every play. The engineering concept was simple:
- the needles are softer than the record, and will wear without
- stressing the record. Some records had grit in the mix to
- wear the steel needle.
-
- Q. Where can I get replacement vacuum tubes for my radio?
-
- A. There are several suppliers of tubes. Best known is Antique
- Electronic Supply, 6221 S. Maple, Tempe, Arizona 85283, telephone
- 602-820-5411. See the FAQ section for electronic parts and supplies.
-
- Q. I would like to get an old radio or an old phonograph. Where can
- I find one?
-
- A. Generally, these items are where you find them. There are dealers
- who specialize in old radios and old phonographs, and these may be the
- best source if you want something that has been restored to good working
- condition as well as cosmetically. Second hand stores and thrift shops,
- estate sales, moving sales, garage sales all can produce interesting
- items, and it is possible to find some real bargains. Keep in mind that
- the source of supply is attics, barns, storerooms, where these were
- tucked away, maybe as much as fifty or seventy years ago. They may or
- may not have been working when they were stored.
-
- Keep in mind that acoustical phonographs have parts in their reproducers
- that deteriorate over time, and that lubricants deteriorate as well.
- Electronic equipment also has components that deteriorate over time as
- well. What you are looking at may have been stored in working condition
- forty or fifty years ago, and look clean as a whistle, but be in need of
- major work before you can use it.
-
- Q. I found an EtherSnarf model YU4Q radio at an estate auction and got
- it for $125. Did I get rooked? It looks complete, has ten tubes and a
- big oak cabinet with spool legs and lots of gewgaws, and has four
- shortwave bands. I don't find it listed in any old radio buyers'
- guide.
-
- A. First of all, keep in mind that there were literally hundreds of
- radio manufacturers in the US in the 1920-1960 era, and there were some
- manufactures who built "trade" radios to be sold under a store's brand
- name. Part 3 of this FAQ will help you figure out when this radio was
- built, even if it isn't listed in any of the buyers' manuals or in any
- of the maintenance manuals that were published at the time.
-
- What an old radio is actually worth depends on many things. First of
- all, what is it worth to you? While there is supposedly a market out
- there, what a specific radio is actually worth is, in reality, what
- someone is willing to pay to buy it from you. You want to keep in
- mind the following:
- a. The radio may need a lot of work before it will
- operate as it was designed to operate.
- b. Most radios were "lo-fi" in modern terms. Many of us
- actually enjoy the sound, and many of the consoles, cathedrals, and
- tombstones were tuned very nicely to the programs sources of the day.
- c. While the number of tubes may give some indication of the
- quality of the radio, and a big console cabinet is more likely to house
- a good radio than a plastic table cabinet, keep in mind that "number of
- tubes" and "big cabinet" both were selling points in the 1930-50 era
- that meant "high retail price." Some mid-priced consoles look as though
- they have a lot more radio in them than they do.
-
- Some people swear by the Bunis "Collectors' Guide to Old Radios" series
- written by Marty and Sue Bunis. Others do not feel that their prices
- are particularly supportable when trying to sell. Most collectors do
- not buy for resale, and buy because they want the item.
-
- Q. My neighbor's grandfather left him a Victor spring-powered
- phonograph he wants to sell me for $100. Should I buy it?
-
- A. As with old radios, the "worth" of an old phonograph is its "worth
- to you." There are "price guides" and general ideas of what things can
- be bought and sold for. However, there are substantial variables, such
- as geographic location, condition of the unit, etc.
-
- Keep in mind that you are going to need some records to play on
- your machine, and that they are also definitely "lo-fi." Edison fought
- electrification to the bitter end, so some of the later Edisons, as well
- as the Victor Orthophonic of the mid-twenties, did incredibly well.
-
- Q. I got an old Westinghouse cathedral radio from my neighbor when he
- cleaned out it his attic. He told me he put it up there when Fred Allen
- left radio, but that it was working when he stored it. I plugged it in
- and turned it on. All of the tubes glowed, but nothing came out of the
- loudspeaker. After a few minutes, one of the tubes got very red inside
- and then, suddenly, liquid shot out of one of the aluminum cans, hit the
- bright red tube, and it broke. When I turned the set off, it was
- smoking, and this liquid got all over everything like tom cat pee. What
- do I do now?
-
- A. Never ever plug in an old piece of electronics gear that hasn't been
- used for a few years without checking it out first. Part 4 of this FAQ
- describes some of the things to check. Fred Allen left radio in 1949,
- so that radio has been stored 45 years.
- DON'T PLUG IT IN UNTIL YOU HAVE CHECKED IT OUT!
- What I am describing here actually happened to me around 1948. The
- problem was a shorted wet electrolytic condenser. The plates of the
- rectifier tube, an 80, glowed red, and I shut the radio off, but the
- electrolytic boiled, squirted the electrolyte (nasty stuff) onto the 80,
- which promptly shattered. Cleanup was a soap-and-water job.
-
- Q. Can I get spares for restoring my Edison phonograph---for my Atwater
- Kent radio.
-
- A. Parts 2 and 4 of this FAQ list suppliers of spares for phonos and
- radios, respectively. In addition to spares support, there are
- people who rebuild phonograph transducers and other subassemblies.
- Availability of specific spares depends on several things. OEM spares
- support for pre-1930's items was discontinued before WW-II, but in many
- cases, items of new manufacture are available. In other cases, such as
- the 6U5/6G5 tuning eye tube, commonly used from the '30's to the '50's,
- your best bet is to substitute (and there is an adaptor for this
- available).
-
- Q. I've never worked on vacuum tube equipment before, but I'm a ham and
- I have worked on lots of transistor equipment and small computers. Can
- I just jump in and fix my old radio?
-
- A. No. There are some serious differences between old tube equipment
- and modern solid state electronics. Here are a few things to consider:
- a. DANGER! HIGH VOLTAGE! We are not talking about 110 volts AC,
- we are talking about 250-500 volts with plenty of "oomph" behind it.
- You generally won't find any fuses in old electronic equipment, and no
- protective circuits.
- b. Vacuum tube circuits have components and circuitry that
- isn't used in solid state equipment.
-
- While the basics of physics regarding voltage, current, resistance,
- inductance, and capacitance haven't changed, you'll want to study old
- texts that explain the theory of operation of the circuits used. While
- developing the skills needed to trouble-shoot and repair vacuum tube
- circuits is not difficult, it is very different work from working on
- solid state equipment. And, as noted, the presence of genuinely high
- voltages for someone used to working with 5 and 12 volts means that you
- will need to develop new safe working habits.
-
- Q. I'm all thumbs around mechanical and electronics devices. Can I
- find people who know how to make these things work?
-
- A. Yes. You may find someone locally who still does work on tube
- electronic equipment, and a few telephone calls to service shops will
- point you in the right direction if there is someone in your area.
-
- There are a few people who specialize in repairing and restoring old
- phonographs and old radios. While none are listed in this revision of
- the FAQ, we may include a few if there is a demand for this information.
- For a price, you can have almost any antique "high-tech" device restored
- to like-new condition, if not better.
-
- Q. What's the difference between this newsgroup and rec.audio.tubes.
-
- A. Rec.antiques.radio+phono was created to move discussion of acoustic
- phonos and old radios (primarily 1920-40 era) from rec.antiques. The
- rec.audio.tubes newsgroup was created a year later as a place to
- discuss use of vacuum tubes in "high fidelity" and guitar amplifiers.
-
- Q. How do I subscribe to the boatanchors mailing list?
-
- A. (March '96). The following instructions are the last information I
- have, and have been in this FAQ since this version of the mail list was
- set up in the fall of 1994. However, this list is being converted to
- "subscription only" as of March 15, 1996. "Subscription only" means
- "send money." I do not know how the listowner plans to handle new
- subscribers after March 15.
-
- To subscribe to the boatanchors mail list send e-mail to
- listproc@theporch.com. Put the following in the body of the mail
- message:
-
- subscribe boatanchors
-
- (the following is abstracted from the listproc response from
- theporch.com).
- Please *do not* submit such administrative messages to the whole
- list! Such messages only irritate the readers. If you remember
- only one thing from this message, remember that a "Help" message
- to the list processor (listproc@theporch.com) will get you
- instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your address.
-
- This subscription is available in two formats. The first, also the
- default is to have each posting to the list mailed to you seperately. If
- you want it like that, you don't have to do anything. The second option
- is to receive digests which means the messages are collected and mailed
- out to you only if it exceeds a length limit or a time limit (one day).
- To change to the digest form, sent email to listproc@theporch.com with
- the following:
-
- set boatanchors mail digest
-
- If you want to temporarly suspend receiving the list but don't want to
- sign off the list, you can set your mail to postpone by sending email
- to listproc@theporch.com with the following in the body of the mail:
-
- set boatanchors mail postpone
-
- This will stay in effect until you change your mail status to one of:
-
- ack noack or digest (ack the default reflects your posting to
- the list back to you)
-
- If you want to read the FAQ for the boatanchors mailing list please
- send email to listproc@theporch.com with the following content:
-
- get boatanchors FAQ
-
- Problems that cannot be resolved by sending e-mail to the list processor
- should be addressed to:
-
- listown@jackatak.theporch.com
-
-