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Culled from http://www.jambands.com/Features/content_2001_11_19.11.phtml
Issue Phil Lesh and the Alchemy of a Quintet [Image]
Subscription & Dean Budnick
Poster 2001-11-19
Home It has been just over a year since Phil
Feature Articles Lesh solidified his roster of Friends.
News Archives During the intervening months, his
BoxScores: Setlists mighty five-piece comprised of Warren
Jambands Radio Haynes, Jimmy Herring, John Molo and
Rob Barraco continues to amplify its
[Image] musical repertoire and interplay,
yielding some scintillant results. Any
CD Reviews given Phil and Friends show fulfills
Show Reviews its promise of a journey well-worth
Charts engaging.
Departments
Columns At present the band is in the midst of
its Paradise Waits tour which carries
Store the quintet through the northeast. In
addition, the group will conclude its
[Image] Beacon Theater run with a benefit on
December 3rd spearheaded by the
Boards Unbroken Chain Foundation with proceeds
General to benefit New York relief efforts.
Musicians Phil and Friends will also headline two
Tape Trades shows at the Henry J. Kaiser Auditorium
Tickets in Oakland on December 30 and 31.
Beyond that, Lesh indicates that the
[Image] band intends to enter the studio early
in 2002 to record some of its original
material.
Tour Links
Radio Links The following interview touches on
Band Links eternal consciousness, the group mind
Fan Site Links and the nature of improvised music.
There?s also a Barney reference. For
[Image] updated Phil and Friends info as well
as some free soundboard downloads stop
Past Issues by www.phillesh.com.
Privacy Statement
Contact Jambands
DB- Before your summer tour you
[Image] announced that you were going to
11/29 38 Special incorporate progressive themes into
11/30 Dr. John your shows. How were these themes
12/1 Dr. John manifested in your music?
12/2 Dixie Dregs
12/5 Sonia Dada PL- The plan was to take seven shows
12/6-7 B.B. King throughout the summer and play a suite
12/8 Jeff Healey of music I composed which is related to
Band the journey of the soul through the
12/9 Evolution: planetary spheres after death. So
String Cheese there?s music for the moon, sun,
Incident Movie Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and
12/12 Jack Bruce(of Saturn, the seven planets that were
Cream) w/Vernon known to the ancients. We played this
Reid(Living music as instrumental introductions to
Colour) & the second set in some cases and in
Bernie some cases as interludes in the second
Worrell(P-Funk) set of the shows.
12/17 Motley Crue
Singer Vince DB- As far as I recall, during these
Neil shows themselves, you never articulated
12/28 Mike Clark's the specific origin or nature of the
Prescription pieces.
Renewal *
Groove PL- We wanted it to be subliminal.
Collective There are seven tarot trumps which
1/13 Brad Mehldau relate directly to those spheres. Our
1/18 Olu light show had a circular projection
Dara/Shemekia surface and at each of the shows when
Copeland were playing this music we had a
1/25 Blue Oyster version of the tarot trump appear in
Cult the circular frame. That was the only
2/1 Tangerine Dream clue, really. That and the music itself
2/2 Tangerine Dream being more or less clearly not
2/6 Bob Marley improvised.
B-Day Tribute
Cannabis Cup DB- What type of feedback did you
Band receive?
2/7 Bo Diddley
[Image] PL- It was very interesting because
people interpreted it in different
ways. Some people related it to the
rest of the set because I try to lay
out the set so that it describes a
journey or tells a story, and also so
that the two sets tell a larger story.
So a lot of people were relating the
planetary music and that progression to
the stories that were being told by the
set. Others went deeper into the
astrological significance and some
numerology, so it received more of a
variety of responses than I expected.
DB- That?s interesting, I didn?t
realize you had taken such an approach
to constructing your set lists.
PL- Yes, that?s pretty much the policy,
if you want to call it that, that?s
evolved. I don?t just throw the sets
together from an arbitrary position, I
like to tell a story. Sometimes it?s
not obvious what the story is and
sometimes it?s told only through the
relationship of the music and the
lyrics are just commentary on that.
Sometimes it has to do with how the
lyrics relate, all of those things.
DB- How long is the process of putting
it together every night?
PL- An hour, maybe less
DB- And the content of that story
itself reflects your mood, the vagaries
of the day?
PL- And the moment. The day itself, the
events in the world, the events in our
subconscious and our level of
awareness.
DB- That leads me to a related topic.
How has your relationship with music
itself changed over the years?
PL- I can safely say that it has
fluctuated. At times it?s deeper than
others. Ever since my transplant my
relationship to music has been tribal
on the deepest level, and with this
band it?s almost automatic. I hate to
say that because I don?t want to jinx
it. The alchemy is so strong that it?s
almost automatic the way our group mind
can open up the pipeline for that
eternal music that we?re all trying to
channel and funnel through ourselves so
that it can exist in our plane.
DB- In terms of channeling that music
is there any way that one can prepare
to receive it?
PL- You can?t train for it, I don't
think. This is something I?ve never
really articulated before verbally, but
what you have to do is remember that
who you are is that eternal
consciousness which is in everyone and
it?s all one. That eternal
consciousness is the same in you as it
is in me and the same in the guys in my
band as it is in me. It?s a subliminal
and subconscious process but when the
nodes of that eternal consciousness
link together and become one
consciousness then that?s the group
mind, the eternal universal archetypal
consciousness. The door is halfway open
at that point and we just try to lean
against the door a little bit. There?s
some kind of feedback circuit that
operates when that?s happening and
enables the valve, which might be a
better metaphor, allows that valve to
open and let that divine eternal music
to come flowing through.
DB- The challenge then is to avoid
distraction?
PL- The challenge is to avoid yourself
or what you think of as being yourself,
your ego. And also the challenge is not
to play what you know and what you can
always bring out of the superficial
level of your ability to play music.
DB- Can one refine this over time?
PL- I think so but I don?t think it?s a
conscious process. I don?t think you
can train for it, you just have to do
it. It?s really more of an attitude
than something you can practice.
DB- So even though you?ve been playing
music for many more years than say
Jimmy and Warren, that doesn?t matter
if they have the ability to tap in?
PL- No I don?t think it does.
DB- On a similar note, how has your
relationship with the audience changed
over the course of your career?
PL- That?s kind of an interesting thing
too. At the very beginning I used to
think of there being a carrier wave
that was stringing us all together, the
audience and the band. For the first
three or four years of the Grateful
Dead it seemed as if there was
information being transmitted back and
forth on that carrier wave. Then in the
early 70?s it seemed to change in that
the energy and the link was still there
but what was transmitted back and forth
was just energy, there wasn?t any
information of any kind. And that sort
of held through the rest of the time
with the Grateful Dead. But now I feel
like I?m getting more of the feeling of
the early years, like there?s
information of some kind being
circulated or transported back and
forth between the band and the audience
independent of the music itself.
DB- To what do you ascribe that lull?
PL- I have no idea. Maybe in the 60?s
there was more of a consciousness of
the spiritual world and then later on
people?s consciousness became more
materialistic perhaps, I don?t know.
But I really feel that now there is a
hunger for spiritual sustenance and
music is food for the soul as well as
being food of love.
DB- Has your own ontology or spiritual
engagement been consistent over the
decades you mentioned?
PL- Well no, I?m just as human as the
next guy. My commitment to the
spiritual path has wavered. Of course
after the transplant it returned in
full force. Now I feel pretty strongly
that I?m steadfastly on the path and I
don?t wish to be blown away, I don?t
want to be tossed by the currents of
astral or emotional or other situations
that arise in life. That?s one thing
about connecting with that eternal
consciousness that?s in you. There?s a
part of you that?s just there and it?s
observing your psyche and your emotions
and what your physical body is doing.
It never sleeps and it?s always there.
It?s that thing that makes us human and
makes us children of God.
DB- Is that manifested in your music,
and if so, to what extent?
PL- Well I certainly hope so. I can?t
really make that judgment because it?s
impossible for me to be that objective
at this point.
DB- Well do you feel appreciably
different say from an emotional
standpoint when you perform nowadays?
PL- Oh sometimes it?s just chill city.
The electricity is just running up and
down my body, some of the stuff that?s
played by the group mind. The thing
about it is that what occurs when we
play together is so much more
interesting and rich and deep and full
of range and expression than any one of
us could have thought up by himself.
DB- Certainly the heart and talent of
your current bandmates facilitates that
as well. You have two my favorite
guitar players in your band.
PL- I?ll tell you, they?re two of my
favorites too.
DB- What led you to move from a
fluctuating roster of players to this
core band?
PL- It was the alchemy that this band
has together. In the first thirty
minutes that the band played together
we went to places that were new to me
and very exciting. We all looked at
each other after those first thirty
minutes and said, ?Whoa, what was
that?? It stops you cold sometimes and
you have say, ?This is impossible.?
Although everybody in the band had
played with me in other contexts with
other musicians, this was the first
time they all played with me together.
I just didn?t want to let that go
because it was the closest to the shit,
the real shit that it had been, and it
just keeps getting closer. Of course
you never really get there but that?s
the fun of it because it?s infinite.
The higher you get it keeps receding a
little farther and you keep going, keep
striving for it.
DB- As opposed to the Grateful Dead,
you really have two guitarists playing
lead. Has this led you to engage with
the music any differently?
PL- That was the idea. I wanted
everybody to be a lead player and
whoever has the spotlight at the moment
is the first among equals for now. Then
someone else will take that position,
or ideally what?s created is a web of
lines and relationships. That?s the
best way to perceive it. That's what
Charlie Mingus said about his music. He
said, ?Focus in front of the music and
listen to the whole thing, don?t try to
pick out any one strand because you?ll
miss the totality.? That?s how I ask
the players to approach it.
DB- Well you have players with big
ears.
PL- That?s the prerequisite I think.
DB- Moving back to something you said
earlier about setlists, I remember at
one point you indicated that your goal
was to move past setlists but it seems
that now they are essential to what you
hope to accomplish on stage.
PL- Your goals change as experience
enlightens you. For now the idea of
telling a story and describing a
journey of some kind through the
setlist is working really well. But
that?s still a goal and hopefully we?ll
be able to improvise something like
that in the future. What we?re doing is
a way station en route to that goal.
It?s all a journey.
DB- The composed pieces that you
performed in the summer, do you plan to
return to those?
PL- It?s been planned from the
beginning to turn them into a
set-length song cycle. Hunter?s already
written the lyrics for everything. I
now have to integrate the lyrics with
the music that I?ve already composed
and in some cases compose new music.
But it?ll be a set-length song cycle
with seven songs, improvised interludes
and composed interludes as well.
DB- How did that collaboration work?
What sort of information did you
provide him?
PL- I just played him all the music,
put it on a CD and sent it to him. He
sort of put the bit in his teeth, went
ahead and wrote the lyrics, ignoring
the fact that I had composed some
different music to be sung. But that?s
the give and take that you have, so
I?ll be modifying everything that I?ve
done to fit with the lyrics. In some
cases if I compose new music he?ll
write some new lyrics for it but it?s a
back-and-forth give-and-take kind of
thing.
DB- When do you anticipate that it will
be completed?
PL- I don?t know because I still really
have to compose it and figure out what
kind of instrumentation I?m going to
have. It?s not just going to be the
band involved. There could be an
ensemble of wind and brass instruments,
extra percussion, keyboards and stuff
like that so I?m not sure exactly. But
I?m hoping to try and do at least a
performance of it by next summer and
maybe a recording later on.
DB- Returning to the current line-up,
have you considered giving this band a
particular name? Phil Lesh and Friends
suggests a transience that no longer
seems applicable.
PL- I?ve thought about it. If I could
come up with a name that could describe
it or was eloquent enough about it I
would float it to the guys in the band.
People have said, ?Why don?t you call
it the Phil Lesh Quintet?? I like that
a lot as it evokes some of the great
jazz bands and in terms of rock music I
think this band is on the level of any
jazz band. That?s something that I have
considered and I?m still considering.
DB- I?d like to hear a bit about song
selection. For instance, John Molo
introduced the idea of performing
?Golden Road.? This tour you debuted
?Liberty.? Who brought that to the
group and what is the process?
PL- Actually that was my idea. I want
to do a lot of those Grateful Dead
songs that were never officially
recorded, like ?Liberty.? It went
through a whole bunch of changes with
Garcia and Hunter. It originally had
different music to it, there?s an
obscure and complicated history. But in
general if someone in the band wants to
do a song I really trust their
judgment. We?ve pulled out a lot of
Beatles songs and we?re going to do
some Motown stuff.
Oh and I just had a flashback to this
Rolling Stones song, ?We Love You.? It
was a single and the B side was
?Dandelion.? It was kind of a
psychedelic single, two sides of a
coin, the solar and the lunar,
something on that level. ?We Love You?
had Beatles singing on it and it?s a
really cool hypnotic kind of song.
That?s what?s what we do, stuff like
that where we remember great songs.
We?re doing a couple of Van Morrison
songs, like ?Into the Mystic? which
Warren just suggested one day. I
started drooling because I wanted to do
it myself and to have him singing it
that?s the icing on the cake. That?s
just how it works.
At our first series of rehearsals, I
was just checking out the sound of my
instrument in the morning, diddling
with it, and I started playing the
bassline to ?Sunshine of Your Love,?
when everybody comes running in and
jumps on their instruments. We ran
right through it with harmony vocals
and everything and it was, ?Hey,
there?s one for our repertoire right
now.? And of course I?m encouraging
everybody to write for the band.
DB- How?s that proceeding?
PL- Well so far, so good. Everybody is
interested is doing it and bringing
songs in, myself included. I?m writing
like mad. Yesterday we just worked up a
new one ,a Hunter-Lesh song I wrote the
music in August and Bob wrote the
lyrics for it in September and now
we?re putting it to the band. We should
be hearing that in the next couple of
days, before we get to Boston we?re
probably going to put it in the
setlist.
DB- Let?s talk a bit about the Unbroken
Chain foundation, what projects do you
have on the horizon?
PL- Last summer we did an ?odyssey of
the spirit? where we encouraged people
to do good works in their own area. We
provided them with certain kinds of
support and we sent them t-shirts and
CDs to listen to while they?re cleaning
up the park or whatever. It was
remarkably well-received and a lot of
people participated and did lots of
good things. We?re doing a benefit in
New York City for the disaster relief
there on the 3rd of December and
Unbroken Chain is going to be the
channel through which those funds get
to relief agencies. We just finished
doing a music in schools thing where we
tried to fund school music in all the
places we played during the summer. We
just got that finished up and sent
those funds on the way so I?m really
pleased about that. That?s one of my
main horses, music in school and the
other is hepatitis C organ donor blood
drives. We do a lot of blood drives.
DB- In terms of music in the schools,
I?m amazed by what?s defined as
essential. It really feels like the
people making budgetary decisions have
limited perspectives.
PL- I would say that that?s true,
although it?s funny, the people who are
making the decisions have that limited
perspective but the people they?re
representing, the people of the
communities, have a much wider one. We
were able to do some good works years
ago in my hometown, Berkeley,
California. The Grateful Dead did a
benefit for music in schools that
covered the salaries of the music
teachers in grades 4-6 for a year. Then
the next thing that happened was the
people put a bond issue on the ballot
which passed overwhelming and after
that the city of Berkeley had music
instruction for those grades covered
for the next ten years out of city
finances. Although interestingly,
across the bay in San Francisco, the
Board of Education dropped all music
and art but not sports from the
elementary school and everybody in town
was outraged. Why those people were
elected is beyond me.
DB- I?m certainly a sports fan but the
hierarchy whereby sports are considered
essential but the arts are not is
confounding to me.
PL- It?s totally ass-backwards.
DB- You mentioned the benefit on
December 3. I recall you made a
decision not to perform the week after
the incident. What do you think the
impact of those events has been on your
playing or songwriting?
PL- It has to make an impact on
everyone. I think it affects different
people in different ways. I can?t
really say with any precision exactly
how the experience is manifesting in
any way but I can definitely say that
my whole view of the world on that
level has changed completely. We no
longer live in the blessed isles. Now
we have to live like the rest of the
world in fear but as shitty as that
seems compared to the way it was before
September 11, that?s the way the rest
of the world lives, with uncertainty
and fear. I think in a way the American
people need to know that and maybe that
will engender some compassion for the
plight of those people. Maybe the
American people will decide to declare
war on things like poverty, ignorance
and oppression. I think that would be
cool.
DB- Indeed, it would?Final question-
I?d love to hear your thoughts on the
legacy of Ken Kesey.
PL- (laughs). I giggle. That?s Kesey?s
legacy. I really can?t say what his
legacy is, I just know what his
presence meant and his presence is
still felt even in his absence. The jam
band scene is part of Ken?s legacy, and
a certain irreverence which has always
existed but Ken sort of put in the
mainstream whether people like it or
not. Anyway, someone who will be sorely
missed.
DB- I always thought the Grateful Dead
manifested that ethos. There was
something in the approach to form and
function. And I?m not even talking
about the bass player taking the stage
in a Barney costume [4/1/93].
PL- Never trust a prankster (laughs).
