yunnan experts

This topic was created by Eric (ewong@umich.edu)
[Thu 20 May, 13:40 Tasmanian Standard Time]

who are dieter, chris, and/or joe mannix? and, where are
you guys?
*
i had posted something about the yunnan area (specifically a
route from chegdu-kunming... which direction is better?) and
i have been told the above three people are the experts on
this area.
*
i'd like to hear from any of these guys or at least get an
email address. or, if there are any other people that
can help me, please do. ... thank you in advance.

[There are 13 posts - the latest was added on Tue 25 May, 13:53]

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  1. Yunnan Added by: Joe Mannix
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 2:34 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Hi, Eric--I did see your message but haven't had the time
    to post anything for a few days. My wife leads small group
    tours to China (including Yunnan) and we have been very
    busy dealing with the fallout from the recent embassy
    bombing crisis. A lot of people are rethinking their plans
    to go to China and that has meant a great deal of time
    getting information, trying to reassure them, dealing with
    cancellations, etc. Anyway, I wouldn't really describe
    myself as an "expert"--just someone who has been to the
    area several times. Actually, my wife has been to Kunming-
    Dali-Lijiang several dozen times in her career, and grew up
    in the Kunming area, so lots of the information I post here
    comes from her. As for your request--our experience is
    limited to Kunming-Dali-Lijiang and the area around Chengdu
    and Leshan. It sounds like you want to make the back-
    country trip up through Kangding and Litang, and we haven't
    done that. In September, we will be going to Yunnan again,
    and extending our travels north from Lijiang to Zhongdian,
    Benzilan and Deqin. If you'd like more about the areas we
    do know about, please post and I'll reply--or, if your trip
    will be after ours, we'll be glad to let you know what we
    find out. By the way, I think Dieter may be in China now--
    one of his last postings said he was on his way to Xiahe.
    He has been to Zhongdian and posted some good information
    about that. Good luck!



  2. Nor I Added by: chris
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 2:52 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    No way am I an expert; I just contribute what I know or have
    done and what I have an opinion about. If you need to know
    something about Chengdu, Leshan, Emei, parts of deep
    southern Sichuan, or other general Sichuan information, I
    can try. Yunnan is on the to-do list. Sorry.



  3. experts Added by: kelly
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 4:29 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    chris, dieter, and joe mannix are guys who's postings make
    this board what it is. Their info is always straight and
    without BS, and they been very helpful to me in planning my
    upcoming trip. I'm always skeptical of anyone who calls
    him/herself an expert, and as you can see above, they
    are also modest. To me, this adds greatly to their
    credibility. My personal thanks for your continuing
    contributions.



  4. For Chris Added by: Joe Mannix
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 5:49 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    We always enjoy reading your posts and get a lot of good
    information from them. You mentioned that you have visited
    deep southern Sichuan--I'm curious about that area, too.
    One of the first China travel guides I bought, some years
    back, was "Southwest China off the Beaten Track". It's a
    good ten years out of date now, but it was that book that
    got me excited about traveling to remote parts of Yunnan,
    etc., and I still take the book out to reread it now and
    again. There is one wonderful section describing a
    mountain known as the "Sun Bridge", somewhere along the
    Jinshajiang upstream from the town of Leibo. That
    description grabbed hold of my imagination and has never
    let go. Do you know anything about this area? Again,
    thanks for all your contributions, and please keep them
    coming!



  5. For Kelly Added by: Joe Mannix
    [Timestamp: Fri 21 May, 6:04 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Thanks for your comments above--it's good to know that
    others benefit from our postings, just as my wife and I
    have benefited from what we find here. Unfortunately, not
    all seem to agree--Dieter was the victim of a flaming
    attack some time back, but I'm glad to see that he still
    turns up to share his knowledge. We'll all look forward to
    hearing from you when you return from your trip. Where did
    you decide to go?



  6. Darn, 0 for 2 Added by: chris
    [Timestamp: Sat 22 May, 1:21 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    I suppose I should have been a bit more accurate with my
    description of "deep south Sichuan": I've been through parts
    closer to the border with Guizhou rather than with Yunnan.
    A couple of queries to friends failed to turn up much more
    of Leibo than locating it on a map and knowing that, if you
    go, you'll probably find a lot of Yi in the surrounding
    area. Certainly qualifies as Off The Beaten Track. Once
    again, sorry.
    While you're still with us Mr. Mannix, who is the author of
    "Southwest China Off The Beaten Track" and, could you post
    the email address for queries about this "Oriental List"
    again? I copied down phn@axion.net from one of your prior
    posts but must have gotten it wrong because the mail bounced
    almost immediately after sending it. Thanks much.



  7. Chris' questions Added by: Joe Mannix
    [Timestamp: Sat 22 May, 3:43 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Mark Stevens and George Wehrfritz are the authors of
    "Southwest China off the Beaten Track". Good luck finding
    the book, though--amazon.com lists it as out of print, and
    I haven't seen it in bookstores in a long time.
    As for the Oriental List, the address is "pnh@axion.net".
    I hope it wasn't my typing mistake that led you astray!
    Anyway, try again, and it should work.



  8. yunnan for joe mannix Added by: kelly
    [Timestamp: Sat 22 May, 6:17 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Alas, the more i read, the more places i want to go. I've
    decided to go to tibet, then kunming. In Kunming, i want to
    head north of lijiang and try to go as far as Zhongdian and
    Dechen, then work my way back through to Dali and back to
    Kunming. Even by limiting my exploring to this, there seems
    to be lots of nooks and crannies to explore, but i guess
    thats why you keep going back. Is your wife connected with
    an agency in Lijiang?



  9. i'm here Added by: Eric
    [Timestamp: Sat 22 May, 15:31 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    well, i'm glad i could start a reunion of sorts. i do
    appreciate all the "helpful" posts on this webpage, because
    i know how much junk sometimes comes in.
    *
    anyway, my trip in june is going to go as following: train
    from shanghai to chengdu, train to jinjiang, bus to lijiang,
    tiger leaping gorge mini-trek, onto dali, train to kunming,
    return to shanghai.
    *
    i am doing all this in about 3 weeks. this is my first time
    to yunnan area, so i can't do anything quite as
    extensive/adventurous as you guys, but maybe someday... you
    all sound quite knowledgable in this are, so i will keep
    asking questions. i was going to go the zhongdian route,
    but am fearful the backroads from chengdu-lijaing are
    prohibited.
    *
    so, my question range from: which direction between
    chengdu-kunming is the best? has anyone done the tiger
    leaping gorger trek? is it very difficult to get from
    jinjiang to lijiang (the LP makes it sound like a problem)?
    what will the weather be like at in that area in june?
    *
    thank you in advance for all this help. i won't call you
    "experts" again, but that is how i was referred to you guys.
    -Eric



  10. greetingsfrom kunming Added by: Dieter
    [Timestamp: Mon 24 May, 18:46 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Hi out there,
    greetings from KUNMING. We just returnt from our trip from
    Lanzhou-xinning-xiahe-tongren-zoige-songpan-chengdu-
    kunming...
    I haven't too much time to answer Eric's question (I'll
    come back to you next week when I'm back home again) BUT
    just want to mention that I'm far away to call me
    an 'expert'. For myself it was quite helpful in the past to
    get some infos from other people to plan my trips so I just
    want to pass my experiences - so far away from being an
    expert.....



  11. More about Yunnan Added by: Joe Mannix
    [Timestamp: Tue 25 May, 3:51 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Hi, Eric--Wow!! That's quite a trip. My first reaction is
    that if you are planning on traveling by train from
    Shanghai to Chengdu and from Kunming to Shanghai, that you
    are going to cut almost a week off your trip right there.
    If you have the funds, I'd recommend flying out and back so
    that you can maximize your time in Yunnan/Sichuan. Second
    comment: in June, you may be getting into the rainy
    season. Of course, it's unpredictable, but if heavy rains
    hit you could find that the road between Jinjiang and
    Lijiang is closed by slides. That's a common problem in
    upper Yunnan during the summer--last year, my wife's August
    group was shut out of Tiger Leaping Gorge by a sudden road
    closure. Given your limited time and the risk of this kind
    of problem, I might recommend that you reverse your
    itinerary. Go from Shanghai to Kunming, then work your way
    up to Dali and Lijiang. You should be OK, because the
    roads on that end are pretty good. Once in Lijiang, you
    can check the condition of the road to Jinjiang. If all is
    well, on you go. (Just be sure to have someone in Lijiang
    book a train ticket for you, because the Kunming-Chengdu
    train is crowded.) If the road is closed, you have a fall-
    back plan: drive or fly back to Kunming and catch the train
    from there on to Chengdu. The risk in going the other way
    is that you can get stranded in Jinjiang if the road is
    closed. Any of the other "experts" have any thoughts on
    this?
    Next, about the Gorge--when we were last there, road
    construction was pushing on to Walnut Garden and there were
    lots of problems with blasting and rock slides on the old
    lower trail. Most of the trekkers were using a new, higher
    trail. Maybe someone else can address current conditions
    more accurately--but I can recommend a very good Web page
    describing a trek a couple of French guys took on the upper
    trail last summer. It's at
    "www.multimania.com/aelinik/j3.htm". The only downside is
    that the text is in French, but the pictures are wonderful.
    My wife and I are heading out there three times between us
    this year, in August, September and October, so I hope
    we'll have some good info. to post afterwards.



  12. Yunnan for Kelly Added by: Joe Mannix
    [Timestamp: Tue 25 May, 4:01 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    Hi, Kelly--re your no. 8--You're right, every time we go
    out to Yunnan we see another side road, another valley,
    another distant village, that makes us want to go back.
    You might want to check this Web site--it was put together
    by a graduate student who did a thesis on tourist
    development in the Lijiang area, and has a lot of
    interesting information about things to see:
    "www.geocities.com/TheTropics/7486".
    Once you get to the site, click on the button labeled "Site
    Map", and once that opens up, follow the links for
    Destinations/Lijiang/Research and Reports.
    My wife isn't connected with any agency in Lijiang--
    although she does know some of the people working there.
    Mostly she does her own arrangements, since she knows the
    hotels and has a list of local drivers she has worked with,
    too. But she might be able to help you make some contacts
    if you need them. When you will be up there?



  13. more info? Added by: Eric
    [Timestamp: Tue 25 May, 13:53 Tasmanian Standard Time]

    thanks joe mannix for the info. i do agree that trains both
    ways will cut a lot of time off. i will probably fly at
    least one way.
    *
    i have also heard that the road between jinjiang and lijiang
    is rained out sometimes, so i think i will begin in kunming
    as you suggested. it makes the most sense. how easy is it
    to book train tickets from jinjiang to chengdu while we are
    still in lijiang?
    *
    a question about the gorge trek: is this a trek that is
    well-marked and fairly easy to do on your own? the LP made
    it sound like there are a few places (restaurants, hostels)
    that can help you with everything once you are in lijiang.
    is this correct?
    *
    keep the info coming...




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